Mini Normal 2200 | Game Over

[Luca Blight]

Luca i'm sorry to break it to you but you're a bit tunneled

Tunneled on Day?

I tr Day before his vote so that makes no sense

[Luca Blight]

If Skitter was Town she’d be having some doubts right now at least as scum doesn’t get limmed like this

She is sardonic and calm - she has been given a gift of a mislim

Ali could be Town or scum, it’s a coin toss. Day, idk anymore. His vote was out of the blue which seems very scummy in context

Town is screwed basically

[Luca Blight]

Lim Ali and skitter next, either order is fine. It surely hits at least one scum

Then I’d guess something like SS, maybe Day? Idk

[Luca Blight]

It pisses me off as I’d just come to hard tr Farkran, and then Day randomly votes him

Ffs

[Luca Blight]

I’ve seen scum pull shit like that before which is why I’m now suspicious of Day

[Luca Blight]

Actually i think we should eliminate Skitter and then Alisae, in that order. Because Skitter is def scum if Fark town here.

That’s fine by me

[Luca Blight]

I have to sleep now

Lim Skitter -> Ali then look at SS, Day, maybe Lucy?

I don’t have time to put down more developed thoughts.

Good luck

[Luca Blight]

I’m very sure on Norwee and Menalque being Town and don’t want to see them limmed in the coming days

Maybe Day but I’ll have to reevaluate again if I’m still alive

Skitter is just scum. Hopefully I’ll be alive to push her wagon but if not please refer to my case on her I made D2

Day made a fair point that Ali has scum motive for hammering there, so probably more likely scum than not

Idk who the third scum is so you’ll have to work that out for yourselves. Probably one of SS/Lucy/Ydrasse

Off to bed now

[Luca Blight]

I’m glad Skitter ate the NK as i thought she and Ali had hard bussed Farkran and I was going to come out swinging

Still think Ali might have bussed but I’ll need to revaluate

[Luca Blight]

I correctly read Norwee as Town, he was obvtown eod2 so I’m disappointed he’s the vig as it doesn’t help me solve

I don’t really like how you’re trying to discredit my opinion like that but whatever. I’m going back to sleep for a bit

[Luca Blight]

Why is Ali-scum a third level read though?

Ali or Farkran were getting limmed, why would e not take that towncred?

It was a dirty lim with little resistance (I think only me/Norwee directly opposed it? And we’re both Town) so something’s up

[Luca Blight]

Fmpov there is definitely at least one scum who bussed

[Luca Blight]

I haven’t read up on today so maybe you’ve already said it

But who bussed, Lucy?

[Luca Blight]

Possibly, I’ll need to review when I’m more awake

What about Day?

Farkran’s role means both sides likely have a RB I guess? So if someone else is a Town RB that might imply Day is scum

Scum definitely have one anyway, maybe Town isn’t guaranteed

[Luca Blight]

I’m still confident Menalque is Town

[Luca Blight]

Well if you’re correct then it must literally be SS/Chara by PoE, which seems possible I guess

[Luca Blight]

If I were scum I would have gone for Ali rather than Skitter if I wanted to save Farkran

If I were scum with Ali I would have bussed

The one thing I wouldn’t have done is soft-defend my partner in that situation

[Luca Blight]

Obviously it’s all WIFOM at the end of the day, but hopefully you can look back and see I genuinely believed what I did

I was very unsure of Farkran throughout the game but thought he was more likely Town as I became more suspicious of Skitter/Ali

[Luca Blight]

And the push against him seemed dirty. Now I know there was at least one busser which somewhat explains the dirty feel to the wagon

[Luca Blight]

The reason I knew Norwee was Town EoD2 was because we had like identical thoughts and reaction to the Day wagon

It felt to me that Skitter/Ali already knew how the flip was going to go, but obviously I was at least partially wrong on that

[Luca Blight]

The reason I knew Norwee was Town EoD2 was because we had like identical thoughts and reaction to the Day wagon

It felt to me that Skitter/Ali already knew how the flip was going to go, but obviously I was at least partially wrong on that

I meant Farkran wagon, not Day wagon

[Luca Blight]

Luca beat me once as scum in a newbie iirc and he did it by being super lowkey all game

Do you think I’ve been like that this game?

[Luca Blight]

I’ve been called town-leader multiple times this game and now I’m being described as kinda lowkey lol

I still think Day could be scum but idk anymore. Scum must have a RB so it’s possible? His vote could be a bus potentially. I’ll have to review again

[Luca Blight]

I think it makes sense for both sides to have a RB?

[Luca Blight]

No offence Luca but i never really thought of you as being town leader here, just widely TR

Also why must scum have a roleblocker? I doubt they do

I haven’t thought of myself as it either, but I’ve heard that comment from at least Pooky, Skitter, SS off the top of my head

So it’s odd how you view me as being lowkey but whatever

[Luca Blight]

I just played a game where there was a macho-cop enabler Miller and scum had a vanilla cop and Town had a N2, N3 cop

[Luca Blight]

1751 - Luca unvote, says he doesn't want the day to end yet. This effectively kills the momentum on the Mena quick-elim since Luca is more or less town leader at this point and him asking for time to re-eval means its unrealistic for people to continue to push Mena.

For example

I’m phone posting atm so won’t bother searching through for the others

[Luca Blight]

That would be my bet right now

I’m 100% on you being Town

I believe Lucy is Town as well

Ali would be my third choice, and I’m still not sure on Day

But I think if there’s no other town rb then Day is probably town?

[Luca Blight]

Although I am a bit concerned you’ve been playing for a longterm pocket on me to get paid off in endgame

I guess I could I explain why I suddenly hard-TR you

Although I'm reluctant to give away the tell

[Luca Blight]

Although I am a bit concerned you’ve been playing for a longterm pocket on me to get paid off in endgame

I guess I could explain why I suddenly hard-TR you

Although I'm reluctant to give away the tell

ebwop

[Luca Blight]

If I were playing for a pocket I might have started sooner? Why would I randomly go from sr'ing you to hard-townreading you when your lim was still viable? And maintain that when my partner was being wagoned and when his biggest SR was you?

[Luca Blight]

Plus would I need to pocket you given I've been hard-TR by most this game?

It would be far better to just get you limmed

[Luca Blight]

Or at least keep myself open to your lim as a compromise

[Luca Blight]

SS's stance on Farkran was weird because he TR/defended Farkran consistently until he naked voted him D2

When asked to explain his vote he gave bad reasons, like really bad. As if he was hoping it wouldn't be very convincing and someone else would be limmed?

The whole progression is off

[Luca Blight]

You SR him for not being passionate, which

a) wasn't true
b) was known not to be scum-indicative of Farkran

Given you TR Farkran all game long before that, it felt like a really dirty vote and I could easily seeing it be a weak bus

[Luca Blight]

If you want to better explain your read progression as a whole then that would be good

[Luca Blight]

lol f3 searching 'Fark' in Chara's ISO isn't very helpful due to their sig

[Luca Blight]

Nice tip

It seems like Chara was gearing up to vote Ali before what later transpired. I think this is the surest bet of hitting scum today

[Luca Blight]

What if the team is Ali/Day and that setup and hammer was manufactured?

Tbh it did feel a bit manufactured/dirty on some level but I don't know if I'm overthinking this

[Luca Blight]

This feels really fake to me, and it's not the first time I've felt that way about a Day interaction this game

Spoiler:

VOTE: Farkran

Sigh

Wait, that might be L-1, 'm not sure.

VOTE: Farkran
Also this is a scum hammer coming from me if this is town so I should probably just always die tomorrow if this does flip town so..........

Enjoy your pizza, friend...

UNVOTE: Farkran

Huh

[Luca Blight]

I need to make pasta, i'm 40 minutes late and i'm going to be flipped irl if i don't

Anyways, ali is scum with skitter

Pedit day you're wrong

See you later

Add in this post and it's quite possible the three of them (who were all online) cooked up this plan

It would make sense given either Ali or Farkran were getting limmed and scum needed that precious towncred

[Luca Blight]

SS, thoughts on my Day/Ali theory above?

[Luca Blight]

I've just gone through the archives and it seems enablers being of different alignment to the role they enable is more common than the reverse, so maybe Day is more likely town based on their role

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Farkran

Sigh

I need to make pasta, i'm 40 minutes late and i'm going to be flipped irl if i don't

Anyways, ali is scum with skitter

Pedit day you're wrong

See you later

Wait, that might be L-1, 'm not sure.

VOTE: Farkran
Also this is a scum hammer coming from me if this is town so I should probably just always die tomorrow if this does flip town so..........

It is amazing how this all happened within a minute

It feels like Ali was prepped and ready for this

[Luca Blight]

I feel uncomfortable townlocking Day when I just played a game with S->S (and T) enabling, but I guess if there's no other Town Rb claim then Day is more likely Town.

Hopefully limming Chara, Ali, SS in whatever order wins the game

[Luca Blight]

i would feel much better with Lucy in that pool and Ali out of it.

i'm not scum and i really don't want to be eliminated, but i don't think i have the tools to get out of it right now. i think maybe i will given enough time but this game moves so fast every time i try to take a break and i just don't think i can manage it.

I really don't get this.

Could you explain it a little more?

[Luca Blight]

Chara's last two posts before the hammer on Farkran, and the VC at the time:

Ali if you have talked more about why Luca becomes more likely scum on a Norwee townflip i'd appreciate being pointed to it, but i townread both of them.

and logically i can see the difference in Ali's pov between Fark and skitter but given Ali's townread on skitter i don't like how easily e agrees that Luca's argument about skitter can have merit only on a Farkran townflip.

meaning i understand why Ali would prefer to flip Farkran here even if e thinks Luca's point has some potential, but it feels like e is lining up a path to more miselims.
i also don't really buy that scum Ali has more posts, Alisae is aware of e's own meta and i think if the game is going eir way e doesn't need to wrestle control of the game through force, and would have a better time being more subtle about it.

pedit: goodnight. me too.

elimination

Farkran [4]:

Menalque, skitter30, Something_Smart, LegoLucy

Alisae [3]:

Day, Farkran, NorwegianboyEE

skitter30 [1]:

Luca Blight

Not Voting [3]:

Chara, Ydrasse, Alisae

It seems to me as though Chara is warming up to vote Ali here, but obviously doesn't get the chance.

I still wouldn't rule out a Ali/Chara team though, because if Ali and Farkran were s/s then scum were getting limmed that day regardless, and it makes it less painful for them to get it over with quickly.

VOTE: Chara

I think this is the best course of action for today

[Luca Blight]

i was just thinking Ali was less likely scum than her but i'm not very sure about that atm.

It's not a thought I can relate to at all

Why do you suspect Lucy?

[Luca Blight]

I actually think it is Chara/Ali

I want to lim one of these today. I have to go out now but there are a number of reasons why I think Ali is scum here.

[Luca Blight]

If Chara is a goon then Ali is probably the strongest Mafia PR as well, which makes more sense in terms of the bus

If Day is Town then it makes his PR redundant while giving Ali some towncred and shortening the length of the day considerably

UNVOTE:

I'll think about it more later actually as I think Ali is maybe more likely to be scum than Chara

[Luca Blight]

How is it crazy?

Obviously if you're town you know they're not correct, but they are certainly possible fmpov and have evidence to back them up

[Luca Blight]

The whole sequence between you, Ali, Farkran around the hammer was weird af and seemed dirty/fake on some level

[Luca Blight]

Imagine for a second that you were scum with Ali and Farkran in that situation, is it impossible you might do something like that to throw off the scent? I could certainly see it.

Right now I think you're probably town because of your role and Ali/Chara is more likely, but I don't appreciate being made out to be crazy for considering such possibilities

Have to go now

[Luca Blight]

I've seen it a few times.

Norwegian was scum in a game where a player replaced out D1 and his partner put him that player to E-1 and Norwegian quick hammered (I was correct in calling that one s/s)

I've seen tons of shit like that. I could go into more detail on why it seems fake but I don't see the use right now as I *think*you're probably town regardless

[Luca Blight]

If Luca was scum i’d think he would keep voting the biggest wagon (Alisae) rather than vanity wagoning Skitter. But it is weird how much he’s changed his votes this game.

I tend to have two ways of playing as Town

One is where I sit back and observe, where I normally get scumread a fair bit but my reads tend to be accurate

And the other is where I actively try to solve the game, where I’m transparently town but I tend to have a more scattergun approach to how I do things

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Chara

I think we need this flip regardless

[Luca Blight]

Based on the last page everyone is just waiting for the lim to happen. I’ve done what I could to spark discussion and no-one is interested in my theories

I don’t get how you can act all outraged after your lolhammer on Menalque in Autumnal

[Luca Blight]

The mechanical reason being we need this flip to solve the game

How does a lack of VC in this instance prohibit discussion?

You haven’t engaged with anything I’ve talked about recently, and apparently a VC would have sparked the game into life?

[Luca Blight]

Why didn’t you engage with anything I’ve said about Ali, SS and Chara if that’s how you feel?

[Luca Blight]

lol but do you think he did it genuinely? His reasoning and pushes still feel natural and in good faith to me, even if they were wrong.

Well, it's hard to tell.

I did feel like he wasn't fully engaging my defense of skitter and we were kinda talking past each other

. Of course that can come from a tunneled townie, but I don't think it was clearly good faith.

Can you quote what you're talking about here?

[Luca Blight]

I guess I'm ok with a no-lim, as long as everyone promises to request a fast night

[Luca Blight]

My only reservation with Luca is that he deadass tried to push through a skitter execution instead of a Farkran one.

But if he can pull that off as scum and still have everyone townreading him, I'm fine with losing.

As scum I'd surely know that was a hopeless task if I really intended to save my scumbuddy?

Skitter hard TR me, so if I were scum I'd probably try to influence Skitter to vote someone like Norwee or Ali

[Luca Blight]

I believe limming SS -> Ali wins the game. I'm almost certain of it

[Luca Blight]

Skitter didn't hard TR you from what I remember? I think she leaned town on you at one point. I'll have to look back

Norwee is conftown, right?

[Luca Blight]

She had a consistently weak TR on you. I'm not sure that's something I want to put too much faith in

[Luca Blight]

I guess SS could have allowed himself to be talked off the Farkran wagon when I was tearing apart his reasoning

He seems very careful with his vote though so I'm not sure.

I'll look into Lucy more

[Luca Blight]

This was said on D1:

If the team is exactly chara-lucy-farkran I probably have the same level of fun here I guess but like that kind of thing is what it'd take.

Interesting

[Luca Blight]

I don't think Lucy is that outrageous as scum.

Firebringer's sig gives me the feeling she's against that kind of thing

, like a joke isn't worth outting the scumteam or TMIing down the line.

She's also against lolhammers but still does them when she feels like it

[Luca Blight]

SS also literally has no reason at all to vote Fark.
I can't think of a single one.

Does that not also apply to Lucy?

The obvious reason is for insurance

[Luca Blight]

I just won a game as scum where I vote-parked on my partner D1 while his wagon was competing with a Townie's

It paid off in Elo as Datisi thought it made no sense for me to do that as scum

[Luca Blight]

Ok, premature hammers then?

[Luca Blight]

It doesn't have the same ring to it

[Luca Blight]

I just won a game as scum where I vote-parked on my partner D1 while his wagon was competing with a Townie's

It paid off in Elo as Datisi thought it made no sense for me to do that as scum

Why and how is that relevant to this game and why is this what is happening within the context of this game

SS (if he's scum) vote-parked his partner instead of voting the competing wagon

You're saying it makes no sense from scum!him

I vote-parked my partner instead of voting the competing wagon in the other game

Datisi said it made no sense from scum!me

I'm not sure how you can't see the correlation there

[Luca Blight]

Obviously SS is a different player to me so I don't know if he'd do that as scum

But he seems a calculated player who would like some insurance on a possible Farkran lim

And his reasoning wasn't exactly convincing, so he wasn't exactly pushing the lim forward in any positive way. One of the reasons I didn't like the wagon was because of his vote

[Luca Blight]

SS' reads could have been anything
and he decided to vote Fark

The context is the same in that regard; it was day one and there was literally no reason to townread the townie being pushed (and he was eventually limmed) but I stuck on my partner regardless as I knew it would be a good look later on

If my partner was limmed I get towncred. If the townie is limmed then happy days

[Luca Blight]

I actually found his reasoning convincing and it was part of the reason I grew more unsure on Fark

What was convincing about it?

[Luca Blight]

Either way I don't know how you expect me to vote SS > Lucy today when in F6 Lucy is by far the superior slot to flip since it yields more information and by nature makes F4 more solvable.

I'm in the process of reconsidering Lucy

I do think you have a point tbf

[Luca Blight]

Why?

[Luca Blight]

It looks more like he's staying neutral/on the fence there tbh

[Luca Blight]

I'm still considering Lucy but won't have time to ISO properly for a few hours

[Luca Blight]

I'm still considering you but you're posting today has seemed Townie

Do you think no-lim is a bad idea?

[Luca Blight]

I'm not a protective

[Luca Blight]

What was the claim order supposed to be?
'

[Luca Blight]

Ali claimed VT, right?

And why didn't you just go ahead and claim, then?

[Luca Blight]

Should we just fully claim today and lim someone?

I kind of agree that it seems silly to no-lim when we have a conftown

[Luca Blight]

I was thinking mass-claim would be beneficial in terms of solving the game from here/putting the pieces together

Obviously fmpov me claiming doesn't help that, but in general it seems good to have some transparency at this point so we can work it out together and see what makes sense?

[Luca Blight]

Yes, I think mass-claiming now is the right thing to do.

I'm taking this as a real claim...?

I already came out as a vanilla after I fakeclaimed D3 IC lol

In which case maybe the order should be: SS -> Lucy -> Luca?

[Luca Blight]

VT

[Luca Blight]

There's so little Town power in this game, which implies Lucy is probably town?

Even with the TA it seems quite under-powered to me. I guess Day must be town as well

[Luca Blight]

I am sorry about being screamy yesterday

I wanted to soft an innocent on Chara at E1 so that i could keep doing investigates

But wouldn't that have backfired had you been NK?

N1 Chara guilty N2 Ydrasse innocent N3 Norwee innocent (i made a joke about killing norwee and stuck with that to cooperatoe with watcher or voyeur since my power doesn't really do things anyway )

You were actually told guilty/inno by the mod?

[Luca Blight]

If Ali is scum, then I guess pushing for a Lucy elim over an SS one could be a scummy agenda?

As Ali is likely to win vs SS in Elo

[Luca Blight]

I think the claim makes sense as Town

Do scum really benefit from such a role? It makes sense as Town along with a neighborhood

Plus there isn't much town power elsewhere in the game

[Luca Blight]

Novice vig shot has more chance of hitting town than scum (and it did)

RB isn't that effective early game, and loses it's function once the enabler is limmed

The simple neighborizer isn't that strong, as we have no way of knowing how many scum are pr's and how many are goons

The backup would inherit a weak role either way

[Luca Blight]

I'm used to town being pretty stacked

In the mini normal I just won as scum, I was up against a Tracker, a N2,N3 Cop

and

a JK, along with an informed cop enabling miller (scum had a 2 shot vanilla cop and 1-shot RB)

And after the game I was told it was scum-sided lol

[Luca Blight]

I'm used to town being pretty stacked

In the mini normal I just won as scum, I was up against a Tracker, a N2,N3 Cop

and

a JK, along with an informed cop enabling miller (scum had a 2 shot vanilla cop and 1-shot RB)

And after the game I was told it was scum-sided lol

That doesn't feel that stacked to me. How do you compare it to this setup?

Well, no role in this setup is as strong as any of {Tracker, N2, N3 Cop, JK}

[Luca Blight]

Meh. Luca are you fine with S_S.

I think SS is the best bet atm

[Luca Blight]

I'm curious how he thinks the game I described above wasn't stacked for Town in comparison to this one, though, especially when he believes the TA to be scum

[Luca Blight]

you think novice 1 shot vig is stronger than ungated tracker? lol

The disloyal rb is only useful in the endgame, and if you lim the enabler it's useless (other than being a named townie)

And you're not even factoring in the N2,N3 cop

[Luca Blight]

Novice OSV is probably slightly stronger. It's a d3 IC. Trackers clear like 0.8 slots per game.

OSV is more likely to hit town than scum, and could even hit a town pr (see this game for instance)

A Tracker is also an IC if it survives to late game and has the potential to catch scum. It's super powerful when there's only one scum remaining

I'm no expert on setup spec so I could be completely wrong here but that's how it appears to me

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Somebody_Sharp

I object to this vote, there is no such player in the game

[Luca Blight]

Her ability doesn't work with one scum remaining

Hence her pointless Norwee target

[Luca Blight]

Oh a surprise, a wonderful surprise

Good game everyone. Sorry for my shit reads and pushes

[Luca Blight]

I notice Pooky had fun roasting me in the dead pt

Tbf I did ask you D1 to summarize why you SR Farkran and you just voted Penguin instead so...

At least I was correct on a few important things like SS’s vote being a bus and Menalque being Town. It was still one of my worst games reads-wise, and maybe Mafia could have pushed me more?

I was surprised at how little I was being pushed after Farkran’s lim tbh

[Luca Blight]

I notice Pooky had fun roasting me in the dead pt

Tbf I did ask you D1 to summarize why you SR Farkran and you just voted Penguin instead so...

At least I was correct on a few important things like SS’s vote being a bus and Menalque being Town. It was still one of my worst games reads-wise, and maybe Mafia could have pushed me more?

I was surprised at how little I was being pushed after Farkran’s lim tbh

tbh i gave up on trying to reason with you after you said I was hard-defending norwee/day because they were my scumbuddies and I was desperate lol.

I said it was a possibility, and I maintain that your ‘lim Farkran over your scumreads because you can lim them later’ argument was bad, even if your read was correct. I tr you most of the day apart from at that moment, including when I asked you to summarize your farkran case

And I wasn’t pocketed by Farkran, I was really unsure of him for the most part and disagreed with most of what he said. I felt the wagon on him was dirty (which it was) which put me off that lim and made me think it was flipping Town

[Luca Blight]

Comically bad fypov because you had the benefit of knowing your own role and alignment. It wasn’t completely unfounded, at least the Day/Norwee part

And you wrote so much shit about Farkran but I didn’t recall any of it being very compelling, which was why I would have appreciated a summary, or at least you highlighting the main points.

Oh well, it didn’t matter in the end anyway

[Luca Blight]

day didnt really want to vote fark

you could've maintained positive momentum

luca and norwee were hard snowed at that point.

I wasn’t hard snowed, I was completely unsure on Fark

Which was why I asked you to summarize as I was considering it, but you just voted PP

[Luca Blight]

I really can't make up my mind about Farkran

He feels Townie but I have consistently disagreed with nearly every PoV of his this game

It just doesn't feel like a great D1 lim to me, and not one that I have confidence in

Apparently this is what being hard snowed looks like

Townbloc of {Day, Pooky, Luca, Menalque, Lucy}

Let's work something out

Nice bloc Btw

[Luca Blight]

The world where Pooky has claimed a strong pr? That’s all wifom

I’m not getting into that argument again. Feel free to continue throwing dirt if it makes you feel better

[Luca Blight]

And I still find it weird how Skitter didn’t push the Farkran lim D1 and allowed it to go on PP so passively but w/e

[Luca Blight]

she literally was afk on vla lolol what

No she wasn't

I know because I posted a whole case about it. She was active around the time Farkran was being wagoned and switched to vanity voting Lucy instead and never progressed from there. She then didn’t want to consider alternatives when pp was run up.

[Luca Blight]

It’s silly because if people think ‘Skitter wouldn’t make such a kill as scum’ then that alone is reason enough to do it

Especially when that player is a Pr. This is WIFOM 101. I’m glad I wasn’t scum as I’d be seething at that line of reasoning lol

Anyway ggs off to bed now

[Luca Blight]

@luca maybe I’m biased bc u were TRing me but I thought you did p fine even if ur SRs were off

Thanks

Yeah I think I did alright in terms of pushing the game forward and being transparent, but I guess this came at the expense of read accuracy. It pays to sit back and have a more objective outlook sometimes

[Luca Blight]

I really enjoyed your modding, IV.

I didn’t think the setup was townsided at all compared to others I’ve played but I seem to be in the minority on that view