Mini Normal 2214 || Game Over!

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:32 am

In post 961, shiki wrote:
In post 957, NotAHecticAlt wrote:The only point for Sigmund here is that he is unaware that I'm not actually Hectic although that may more be a feature of a scumteam who did not catch my mainslip.
it is hard to imagine that you believe that sigmund believes you are hectic or any of the other alt related things you have proposed

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:33 am

In post 1220, T3 wrote:I see that koba posted once in the threadso idk

how did you look at the context of that post and not hectic saying 'oops slipped' and come to the conclusion messy anne was koba

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:34 am

In post 495, NotAHecticAlt wrote:ayy lmao it only took 3 days to alt slip.

In post 496, NotAHecticAlt wrote:(that was me btw i mainslipped)

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:36 am

In post 1224, Dwlee99 wrote:You mean Sigmund right?

no i mean not hectic treating sigmund as though sigmund thinks not hectic is hectic and also debating sigmund's identity

like those felt too far off to be reasonable to me

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:45 am

In post 1230, Dwlee99 wrote:If you're the kind of person that needs a case I can go through their ISO tomorrow morning when I'll have access to a computer.

i don't need a case i have looked at the iso as well and while i don't find anything that screams this is mafia to me i also don't see anything that says this is town really, it just doesn't feel as likely as other options to me. like you say 'yeah this seems unreasonable could be mafia' about not hectic and t3 acting super weird about alts and various other weird things we are still waiting on t3 to clarify but you want me to vote messy anne and i don't even think that's better than you joining me on monkey unless you think anya is mafia (which outside of hints that she might be trying to pocket me? i haven't felt that way)

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:47 am

i also have not been advocating for the monkey wagon particularly hard as a) we are waiting on a replacement and b) would probably rather eliminate into not hectic/t3/johnny depending on the information to come

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:55 am

In post 1234, NotAHecticAlt wrote:Am i trying to move the game forward in your view?

i guess in a way that feels very narrow, sure,

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:56 am

In post 1236, Dwlee99 wrote:Sigmund just missed the altslip ("stupid") or are trying to pretend they did ("scum").

wait do you also believe that sigmund did not know not hectic was not actually hectic?

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:01 am

In post 1236, Dwlee99 wrote:At least Monkey was doing something today. Sigmund's clip would provide us with basically no info and is again at least trying today. The hood has some weird claim thing brewing so we kinda need to see what happens with that. I have some paranoia that the entire hood is evil but also I am townreading NH and Johnny anyway.

you know doing something is worse than doing nothing for the town if the player in question is mafia, right? and if the things they are doing are not towny things, ...

it's like, jake gets wagoned, gamma emerald gets nightkilled, you agree that creating stagnant situation possibly mafia goal,

at least one member of the mafia would likely be trying to steer the ship to take advantage of stagnant game, i'm not mafia, so

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:27 am

In post 1241, Anya wrote:the playstyle is completely nai but the urge to quickhammer me and then quickhammering jake justifies a search warrant

super scummy hammer, doesn't feel like they believe in the playstyle netting results the way they did in previous game i played with them (could be due to it leading to a member of town ragequitting that game, tho)

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:28 am

In post 1243, shiki wrote:
In post 1241, Anya wrote:the playstyle is completely nai but the urge to quickhammer me and then quickhammering jake justifies a search warrant
super scummy hammer, doesn't feel like they believe in the playstyle netting results the way they did in previous game i played with them (could be due to it leading to a member of town ragequitting that game, tho)

i dunno if that outweighs any of my other thoughts

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:43 am

In post 1240, shiki wrote:it's like, jake gets wagoned, gamma emerald gets nightkilled, you agree that creating stagnant situation possibly mafia goal,

if you think hm, maybe mafia were trying to do the same thing with the monkey wagon, the monkey wagon was sigmund, johnny, messy anne, dwlee, jake, t3 which i believe not hectic was crosschecking with the jake wagon

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:44 am

In post 1245, shiki wrote:the monkey wagon was sigmund, johnny, messy anne, dwlee, jake, t3

anya wagon was sigmund, not hectic, anya, johnnyfarrar, dwlee99, messy anne

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:46 am

In post 1246, Anya wrote:you mean he was town in the game with you and it went badly yet he's trying the same lottery numbers again?

nono the game went very well but it felt like sigmund believed that playing the way they were playing would result in good things in that game, i described it there as a fire, like he was burning everyone and only the town would be left standing

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:47 am

where as here it seems to have the trappings of that but not committed but maybe discouraged by what happened in that game it is hard for me to tell if because of that or because of alignment difference

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:47 am

In post 1248, shiki wrote:he was

they were, sorry

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:48 am

In post 1250, shiki wrote:
In post 1248, shiki wrote:he was
they were, sorry

nevermind, does have pronoun in profile, for some reason thought did not

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:12 am

In post 1252, Anya wrote:he's restraining himself here? makes me scared to see the mud slinging lava pools he left behind in that game

yeah feels either restrained (because discouraged) or like not committed (because mafia)

but it does not feel like "I AM TOWN FEEL MY WRATH" the way it felt there

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:46 am

In post 1259, Dwlee99 wrote:Wait I went to go check and now I'm confused. I thought we were talking about T3 and Sigmund both not understanding NaHA's identity?

In post 1221, shiki wrote:
In post 961, shiki wrote:
In post 957, NotAHecticAlt wrote:The only point for Sigmund here is that he is unaware that I'm not actually Hectic although that may more be a feature of a scumteam who did not catch my mainslip.
it is hard to imagine that you believe that sigmund believes you are hectic or any of the other alt related things you have proposed

it just seems extremely unlikely to me that sigmund believed not hectic was actually hectic and it seemed hard for me to imagine not hectic believing that (or the banned user thing whatever that was)

In post 1264, NotAHecticAlt wrote:These 2 posts gave me the impression sigmund thought i was actually hectic

hm

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:49 am

In post 1268, shiki wrote:hm

i mean, you are good at this game and i think sigmund was possibly playing into your character with the evil villain mustache thing, but

hm

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:58 am

In post 1270, Dwlee99 wrote:What if we compromised on a few of the scummiest players being forced to claim, Shiki?

i already suggested monkey then not hectic, but i'd settle for just having t3 info dump at this point

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:08 pm

In post 1273, T3 wrote:Gotta trust me on this one, info dumping everything is really bad and doesn't help town at all. No matter who dies, our existence in the game helps town. We'll reveal it at lelo.

why would i trust this when this is exactly what mafia would be looking to do

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:09 pm

In post 1276, shiki wrote:why would i trust this when this is exactly what mafia would be looking to do

like wait wait wait use "info" to secure game winning miselim doesn't matter if confirms you're mafia after because you've won

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:33 pm

In post 1278, T3 wrote:I can understand where you're coming from, but you're wrong.

about all of you? and you are sure of this somehow?

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:23 pm

In post 1287, NotAHecticAlt wrote:T3 is obviously in either a hood or masonry just leave them alone and let them do their play- it will be clear if its town or not later.

everyone's alignment will be clear at end of game i am fairly confident

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:23 pm

In post 1296, Dwlee99 wrote:...also I never kill Gamma if I'm evil here

...

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:25 pm

In post 1295, Dwlee99 wrote:Well, I got sent this real fun pm by Menalque and...

i strongly believe this should fall under 'private communications' rule as to not invite angleshooting

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:45 pm

In post 1300, NotAHecticAlt wrote:
In post 1297, shiki wrote:
In post 1287, NotAHecticAlt wrote:T3 is obviously in either a hood or masonry just leave them alone and let them do their play- it will be clear if its town or not later.
everyone's alignment will be clear at end of game i am fairly confident
What's wrong about my point?

i do not believe it to be a masonry and it feels as though the time it will become clear if its town based on their 'play' or whatever seems like it is designed to be once the game is over

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:47 pm

In post 1301, shiki wrote:i do not believe it to be a masonry

i guess it isn't that i do not believe it to be a masonry as much as it doesn't feel like a masonry from current information, to be more precise

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:49 pm

In post 1301, shiki wrote:i do not believe it to be a masonry and it feels as though the time it will become clear if its town based on their 'play' or whatever seems like it is designed to be once the game is over

it's like there are multiple things where you are going 'figure this out later, this will resolve itself later' and so forth and this feels very far from how i am currently thinking about the game

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:52 pm

In post 1304, Dwlee99 wrote:This is just the same as saying "I got a town role pm" which is the same as saying "I am town"

only my role pm isn't from menalque thus inviting the angleshooting thus i think it should be against the rules

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:59 pm

In post 1307, Dwlee99 wrote:
In post 1298, shiki wrote:
In post 1296, Dwlee99 wrote:...also I never kill Gamma if I'm evil here
...
Do you disagree?

your awareness of the quoted post by gamma emerald and you immediately reaching for it to towncase yourself kinda takes its weight away

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:26 pm

In post 1312, NotAHecticAlt wrote:I do the same thing as town so its at worst NAI

takes its weight away doesn't mean puts the weight on the other scale, simply that it moves from town indicative to not alignment indicative to me

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:33 pm

In post 1315, NotAHecticAlt wrote:I don't rush ever.

Rushing is pro-scum.

short memory is probably good

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:35 pm

In post 1318, NotAHecticAlt wrote:the more evidence overall you have to incriminate scum the better. the longer drawn out days are, the more scum have chances to show their true colors by mistake.

and you feel you had no part in rushing yesterday? that's what i meant by short memory

shiki · Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:35 pm

like i don't disagree with you that's part of why i play the way i do it just feels strange you are saying it now

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:54 am

In post 1344, Dwlee99 wrote:T3 are you sure you should wait with any of this info? You're essentially claiming that yourself, Johnny, and Hectic are goodTM, correct?

In post 1232, shiki wrote:would probably rather eliminate into not hectic/t3/johnny depending on the information to come

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:55 am

also, do you have a redcheck on messy anne or something? or are you usually this confident? or is it that other option

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:04 am

In post 1347, Dwlee99 wrote:I'd be a lot smarter about it if I had a red check on Anne.

i would assume you'd just claim it but it seems our views towards this sort of thing are disparate enough if you are town that i figured i would ask

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:14 am

VOTE: not hectic

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:03 am

In post 1353, NotAHecticAlt wrote:Shiki, what makes you think this is my scum game?

behaviour at end of day felt mafia indicative to me, all of the little things i have noted throughout the game, the way you are saying 'we'll resolve that later', everything with regards to t3 feels wrong to me right now and i figured voting you was more likely to result in some clarification than continuing to ask t3

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:03 am

In post 1360, shiki wrote:everything with regards to t3 feels wrong to me right now

like it literally feels like t3 is in a neighbourhood with mafia and carrying out the mafia mission for some reason

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:08 am

In post 1360, shiki wrote:the way you are saying 'we'll resolve that later',

it's like, from my point of view, we have to hit mafia today

have to

and i am trying to narrow who that might be, and it feels like you and dwlee both are just trying to keep that open to everyone, in a lot of ways

and i am really bad at this game, right? one of my favourite players (hopkirk), who i also think is one of the best players, said my play was 'dumb indicative' in silent star, not mafia indicative, just dumb indicative, but if i were mafia here and town miselimed today, i think 60-70% of the time, if not higher, i could make the claims work for a mafia victory, so you saying, 'eh we'll resolve whatever t3 is rambling about later' or 'we'll figure out monkey after the replacement, whenever that happpens to be' feels like it is working towards the same mission that it feels like mafia was already going for with regards to the current game state

the only thing you've said today that made absolute sense to me was 'let's just eliminate the scummy hammer' or something of that sort,

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:10 am

In post 1363, shiki wrote:and it feels like you and dwlee both are just trying to keep that open to everyone, in a lot of ways

like how does dwlee determine that 'one thing in messy anne's iso' (that he hasn't even pointed out, by the way) outweighs scummy hammer or you revoting?

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:11 am

In post 1364, NotAHecticAlt wrote:I think t3 slot resolves itself through nightplay, would you not agree?

i think t3 slot probably does but the information will potentially be lost because mafia neighbour, if i had to guess at this point

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:12 am

In post 1367, NotAHecticAlt wrote:What is the reason you wont push sigmund over me?

seemed more likely to net information about the neighbourhood thing at the same time since you seemed to be potentially involved in that and previous tactics towards that goal were not working

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:14 am

In post 1369, NotAHecticAlt wrote:The team would need to be exactly dwlee, t3, and I to be scum then, and 2 of those slots are obv town and 1 is self resolving.

no it wouldn't? two of you could be simply aiding the mafia unintentionally, or all three of you, or i could be wrong and you could just not even be aiding the mafia and i could be very very far off, it's just super weird play to me

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:15 am

In post 1365, NotAHecticAlt wrote:Do you think sigmund is town?

not particularly, i said as much to anya when asked about sigmund, hammer was super scummy, play doesn't feel like it did in other town game,

i just do not know how to weight that against other things i have observed and was hoping someone else would help me towards that goal but no takers so far

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:16 am

In post 1372, NotAHecticAlt wrote:You know my read on you was genuine, i didnt hesitate and leave open room for "but unless". You told me who you were and i immediately was like "yeah can't be scum based on how we played in council.

Like i was trying to coach you the whole time that game and that's clearly a much different vibe here.

i think you would possibly do this as either town or mafia

for what it's worth, monkey also had to carry me through dayplay in miccro blitz ii,

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:23 am

In post 1366, shiki wrote:that he hasn't even pointed out, by the way

*they haven't, i'm sorry,

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:25 am

In post 1376, NotAHecticAlt wrote:I think a poe of rae/sigmund/messy anne even like is very plausible

Also i think we are potentially feeling uneasy with reads because of the traitor thing and hood stuff messing with dayplay

eh rae/messy anne not super high in poe to me,

odds on hood containing scum super high though, right? especially especially if there is a traitor, which isn't super likely to me but possible

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:25 am

In post 1378, shiki wrote:eh rae/messy anne not super high in poe to me,

especially not today when it feels like we have to go for highest likelihood always

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:29 am

In post 1378, shiki wrote:odds on hood containing scum super high though, right? especially especially if there is a traitor, which isn't super likely to me but possible

like it seems like t3 is hinting at a neighbourhood with pr in addition to neighbours, mafia in said neighbourhood is therefore semi-informed et cetera et cetera

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:29 am

In post 1381, shiki wrote:like it seems like t3 is hinting at a neighbourhood with pr in addition to neighbours, mafia in said neighbourhood is therefore semi-informed et cetera et cetera

if two people in neighbourhood are claiming abilities then one is almost always mafia, right?

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:31 am

In post 1383, NotAHecticAlt wrote:I have this worry that t3 is in a masonry and not a hood so

i find this unlikely from available information

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:34 am

In post 1385, Dwlee99 wrote:looks like trying to get a reason to vote in Johnny/Sigmund.

oh the open question thing, i did miss this on my review of the iso, though it still doesn't feel like stronger evidence than the hammer or the revote to me,

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:35 am

In post 1386, Dwlee99 wrote:I was in a game where there were two town role cops in a good together.

i don't think isis is a player vs mod designer, generally

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:40 am

In post 1390, Dwlee99 wrote:Well it wasn't mod vs players there either. It is just a hood mechanic and I found it fun. First hood member died and then the other lived to ELO and was not elimed and also wasn't the town that made the losing vote, so it wasn't that bad.

i guess what i mean is, the point of the two town role cops in a neighbourhood is to create paranoia, right, like schadd often does with neighbourhoods and other assorted elements of games, and this isn't something i have noticed isis generally aiming for

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:41 am

In post 1391, Dwlee99 wrote:You would hate playing with not_mafia lol

i put so much effort into trying to read not mafia once

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:44 am

In post 1396, NotAHecticAlt wrote:not mafia is easy to read

maybe for the enlightened among us

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:46 am

In post 1400, NotAHecticAlt wrote:
In post 1398, shiki wrote:
In post 1396, NotAHecticAlt wrote:not mafia is easy to read
maybe for the enlightened among us
sus

? i was simply saying that you might find not mafia easy to read but a) i put a massive amount of effort into trying to do so once and b) i got it wrong

shiki · Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:48 am

In post 1404, NotAHecticAlt wrote:U said amogus

oh lol

shiki · Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:33 am

everyone out to see who can be scummiest?

shiki · Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:36 am

In post 1427, Dwlee99 wrote:What's up Shiki?

you don't think oh slot has been replaced let's e-1 quick is scummy? especially when someone on the wagon has been saying 'let's wait and see' all day?

shiki · Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:38 am

In post 1429, T3 wrote:We want the replacement to feel the pressure - I never said to hammer it.

and you just think sigmund has ceased being someone who would hammer this???

shiki · Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:08 am

In post 1436, Sigmund wrote:I can't believe you would say that I would lol-hammer someone who just replaced in and is being shitpushed by my top suspect the day b4 mylo.

That's a level of openwolfing even I can't contemplate.

t3 says thinks you are most likely mafia > you already quickhammered someone this game > says putting someone to e-1 is fine because it's not like they're advocating for hammer

feels like welcoming it in the same way it felt like not hectic was doing by revoting jake yesterday

shiki · Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:20 am

In post 1440, Nero Cain wrote:someone toss me a messy anne case

i think dwlee's 1385 is the extent of it

shiki · Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:12 pm

In post 1460, NotAHecticAlt wrote:
In post 1458, MiniMegabyte wrote:
In post 1457, Nero Cain wrote:VOTE: MiniMegabyte

L-1 claim
I would like to catch up first and give my thoughts on the game before being made to claim please and thank you
No, claim now.

so, uh, why's minimegabyte more likely to be mafia than sigmund to you?

shiki · Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:14 pm

In post 1462, NotAHecticAlt wrote:did you know there's 3 mafia members?

yes; did you know we should eliminate the most likely? also please answer the previous question

shiki · Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:56 pm

happy with my vote

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:57 am

In post 1485, Dwlee99 wrote:If Sigmund isn't evil we deserve this loss holy crap. Reminder we are in MELO. Probably should no elim unless someone wants to give us epic information. Also I had a dream that there was like a snoop (t3) or something? in a neighborhood and then it publicly confirmed three people's alignments and NAHA (now VFP) came up mafia something. Truly weird.

i mean, you were a proponent of both wagons that hit town saying it's sigmund's fault if they're town is pretty ................

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:58 am

In post 1485, Dwlee99 wrote:If Sigmund isn't evil we deserve this loss holy crap. Reminder we are in MELO. Probably should no elim unless someone wants to give us epic information. Also I had a dream that there was like a snoop (t3) or something? in a neighborhood and then it publicly confirmed three people's alignments and NAHA (now VFP) came up mafia something. Truly weird.

anyway there's no way we vote no elimination before full massclaim and determination of most likely mafia while we have more town alive as opposed to less; even if we then decide not to eliminate today as opposed to tomorrow

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:05 am

In post 1491, Dwlee99 wrote:still this quickhammer shit by Sigmund is blatantly anti-town.

i did point out to you and others that voting messy anne over sigmund didn't make sense? and t3 setting up another opportunity for sigmund to do this while saying sigmund was their top mafia read didn't make any sense?

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:07 am

In post 1493, Sigmund wrote:I mean does anyone really think scum me lol-hammers two straight townies when I'm not even driving their wagon.

They were both going to die even before I lol-hammered them.

you know as well as i do (actually probably much better than i do) that the best thing to do day 2 after quickhammering day 1 as mafia is to quickhammer day 2

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:08 am

In post 1505, Sigmund wrote:
In post 1503, shiki wrote:
In post 1491, Dwlee99 wrote:still this quickhammer shit by Sigmund is blatantly anti-town.
i did point out to you and others that voting messy anne over sigmund didn't make sense? and t3 setting up another opportunity for sigmund to do this while saying sigmund was their top mafia read didn't make any sense?
Nothing that T3 and Fake Hectic and MonkeyBoy have done all game have made a lick of sense and we need to kill Fake Hectic before the game is over.

am i alive because this matches up super well with thoughts i have had throughout the game?

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:12 am

In post 1515, Sigmund wrote:because I would think with your knowledge of mech you would know why you're alive but you thinking that that's the reason you're alive is kind of making my hair stand up on my arms

i am interested! now; why am i alive?

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:13 am

In post 1514, Dwlee99 wrote:Shiki pick massclaim order please.

i am a vanilla town.

kinda want rae first but should probably be t3/vfp

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:14 am

In post 1518, Sigmund wrote:I don't think there is a player townier than you in the game so you're basically the default protection target.

why would mafia be betting on there being a protective after a rolestopper flip

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:15 am

In post 1519, shiki wrote:
In post 1518, Sigmund wrote:I don't think there is a player townier than you in the game so you're basically the default protection target.
why would mafia be betting on there being a protective after a rolestopper flip

also the 'my knowledge of mechanics' + 'being the towniest player' + rushing end of day before i could weigh in on minimegabyte's claim = ???

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:17 am

In post 1520, Sigmund wrote:because there's no reason for the rolestopper to be macho if there's not another protective in the game.

not going to give opinion on this pre-claims

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:25 am

In post 1510, Sigmund wrote:
In post 1506, shiki wrote:you know as well as i do (actually probably much better than i do) that the best thing to do day 2 after quickhammering day 1 as mafia is to quickhammer day 2
I don't think this is true but ok

In post 1524, Sigmund wrote:like if MMB flips red I'm pretty sure I get elimmed today and I didn't want to get elimmed today so I wanted to get myself some towncred because it makes no sense for MMB to fake-claim rolestopper and then for MMB's scumpartner to flashhammer MMB right afterwards.

it's like, if you are mafia you know quickhammer was scummy right and you are afraid of getting eliminated due to residual scumminess the next day anyway so scumhammer again is always the best play?

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:31 am

In post 1526, Sigmund wrote:I'm town and I thought there was a good chance MMB flip red and I didn't want to be the elim after MMB so I hammered.

i get that there isn't really a point to me saying the above i was just confused by you not thinking that it would be good mafia to play quickhammer again for someone who had quickhammered day one, mostly

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:34 am

In post 1528, Sigmund wrote:doubt
wrong
panick and stupid decisions?

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:36 am

In post 1529, Dwlee99 wrote:Okay so who is next?

you? sure, you

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:47 am

In post 1535, Dwlee99 wrote:Shiki aren't we supposed to do it in order of who we think is scummiest? You claiming first then me is not conducive to that ordering, but I will if you still want me to.

i will go again at the end if you would like;

the ordering beyond myself is difficult because t3/vfp/johnny all potentially connected, and that's 3/7 of the non-me players, and you are here right now and were opposed to claims yesterday, thus somewhat likely to claim a role, so you going first seems okay to me,

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:51 am

yeah i think dwlee > sigmund > nero cain > rae (who claimed pr) > t3 > vfp > johnny

final answer

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:57 am

In post 1536, shiki wrote:t3/vfp/johnny all potentially connected

right because if this is a neighbourhood they have likely already claimed to eachother based on t3's commentary? so last makes sense? even if fairly likely to be a mafia claim within grouping?

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:47 am

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:56 am

In post 1550, Rae wrote:so do i just hold onto this guilty and observe the room or can i just blurt it out.

i think finish claims and then blurt it out but also it is not as though we can stop you

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:05 am

In post 1555, Rae wrote:by the way just so it's clear i dont do any of that fake guilty shit. if i claim youre guilty that's my result and you will have to fight me. the minute you see me say ____ is guilty that's what it fucking is and anyone who denies is either mafia or incredibly dense. thank you.

it's a guilty claim at 5-3 so taking a preemptive 'fight me' stance seems unnecessary

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:44 am

yes please

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:51 am

In post 1561, T3 wrote:Johnny and I are macho doctor masons.

do you have any information about vfp (not hectic)?

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:57 am

just need confirmation from johnnyfarrar and claim from vfp and redcheck from rae now

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:06 am

In post 1565, shiki wrote:just need confirmation from johnnyfarrar and claim from vfp and redcheck from rae now

please whenever johnny/vfp are able to as i am trying to adhere to this:

In post 1540, Dwlee99 wrote:Also, reminder to not talk about claims until we are all done

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:36 am

okay so we have:

gamma emerald - vanilla town
anya - vanilla town
jake the wolfie - vanilla town
shiki - vanilla town

sigmund - vanilla town?
dwlee - vanilla town?
nero cain - vanilla town?
vfp - vanilla town?

minimegabyte - town macho rolestopper
johnnyfarrar - macho doctor mason
t3 - macho doctor mason

rae - novice macho cop?

unless someone thinks town's power was macho rolestopper + novice macho cop in a 9:3

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:37 am

In post 1569, shiki wrote:unless someone thinks town's power was macho rolestopper + novice macho cop in a 9:3

unless of course someone would like to revise their claim

also @rae, redcheck time?

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:40 am

In post 1571, Dwlee99 wrote:I'm inclined to believe all power roles so let's hear the guilty. Please no hasty votes as I want to explain a strategy anyway once the guilty comes out.

if you are town and all of the power roles are truthful the mafia is exactly {sigmund, nero cain, vfp}

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:44 am

In post 1573, VFP wrote:If T3 has a crumb I'll believe it.

johnny and t3 felt much like me + moongrass in the datisi game to me; but sure if they have a crumb it doesn't hurt

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:52 am

i could also ask t3 what were his intentions with the fake hammer? and did he not find it pauseworthy that minimegabyte also claimed a macho role? but does it really make any sense for them not to be truthful here

like

7 vanilla town
1 macho rolestopper
1 novice macho cop
2 mafia
1 mafia that gets rolestopped i guess?

doesn't actually make sense, does it?

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:57 am

In post 1578, shiki wrote:i could also ask t3 what were his intentions with the fake hammer? and did he not find it pauseworthy that minimegabyte also claimed a macho role? but does it really make any sense for them not to be truthful here

like

7 vanilla town
1 macho rolestopper
1 novice macho cop
2 mafia
1 mafia that gets rolestopped i guess?

doesn't actually make sense, does it?

actually wait rolestopper just functions like a protective, right, that also stops investigations, hm

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:12 pm

In post 1591, VFP wrote:Not to mention a standard rolestopper claim in a mass claim means that the cop gets 3 results unless killed. That makes the roleblocker redundant alone.

well it's a macho novice cop so can't check day one and can't be protected by rolestopper or doctor

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:17 pm

In post 1569, shiki wrote:okay so we have:

gamma emerald - vanilla town
anya - vanilla town
jake the wolfie - vanilla town
shiki - vanilla town

sigmund - vanilla town?
dwlee - vanilla town?
nero cain - vanilla town?
vfp - vanilla town?

minimegabyte - town macho rolestopper
johnnyfarrar - macho doctor mason
t3 - macho doctor mason

rae - novice macho cop?

unless someone thinks town's power was macho rolestopper + novice macho cop in a 9:3

yeah it's just

at least one of {rae, vfp}

and

at least two (possibly three if vfp) of {vfp, sigmund, dwlee, nero cain}

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:24 pm

doctor masons super confirmed i think because if rae is mafia they have to be town and if vfp is mafia why would the tactic ever be doubt the masons here so just going to leave them as green forever

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:28 pm

? how would we get a cop invest?

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:30 pm

In post 1611, Dwlee99 wrote:Rae targets someone tonight?

and the mafia kill rae? oh wait this is smart

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:30 pm

In post 1614, shiki wrote:
In post 1611, Dwlee99 wrote:Rae targets someone tonight?
and the mafia kill rae? oh wait this is smart

but the mafia can just not kill rae to leave the wifom,

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:31 pm

so it just leaves us in the same position right? needing to decide if rae is truthful or not?

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:35 pm

In post 1620, VFP wrote:You can go for which either, but the approach to it today was pretty staged and it looked like Dwlee was trying to tell the traitor to go for the fake guilty.

why do you think there is a traitor?

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:44 pm

redchecking a mafia partner over redchecking the non-shiki non-mafia in the vanilla town claims seems like near throwing yeah

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:46 pm

In post 1629, shiki wrote:redchecking a mafia partner over redchecking the non-shiki non-mafia in the vanilla town claims seems like near throwing yeah

sometimes when i am at a lower percentage i think the mafia is constantly doing things like this but when my battery is less low i find that mafia do not actually try maneuvers like this often they'd rather go for the win now in most cases

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:55 pm

In post 1634, VFP wrote:I narrow the scum pool to me, Nero, Dwlee, and Rae.

how does sigmund get removed from the scumpool here

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:01 pm

i don't really understand what is happening; vfp should obviously unvote if town? because from vfp's perspective mafia has to be rae + two of dwlee, sigmund, nero cain; but it now can't be rae dwlee sigmund because they were all online just now

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:03 pm

In post 1655, Dwlee99 wrote:And elim requires 5. No team is mech cleared impossible

oh we're at 8 not 7 sorrysorry

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:03 pm

In post 1656, shiki wrote:
In post 1655, Dwlee99 wrote:And elim requires 5. No team is mech cleared impossible
oh we're at 8 not 7 sorrysorry

i knew this but was not thinking about it at that exact moment, sigh, can feel myself making less sense

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:09 pm

In post 1665, VFP wrote:Think of it this way... the scum team is confirmed to me.

to you it is

rae

+

one of {sigmund, dwlee, nero cain}

right? so how does this narrow anything further than it already is,

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:12 pm

In post 1670, Dwlee99 wrote:Huh? One of?

two of, i'm not mafia i'm just a mess lol

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:19 pm

In post 1676, VFP wrote:
In post 1673, Dwlee99 wrote:Why not from yours...?
Because Sig is the back up plan.
Obviously I'm going to say I'm town here here and that Rae is scum regardless if I'm town or scum.

So with this gambit, Rae wants to end the day today.

do you think that rae would have claimed macho simply because of minimegabyte's flip then? or possibly the role cop you suggested earlier?

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:30 pm

In post 1694, Nero Cain wrote:I mean there's a guilty of VFP.

wait why do you think rae is definitely town?

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:35 pm

In post 1700, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1696, shiki wrote:
In post 1694, Nero Cain wrote:I mean there's a guilty of VFP.
wait why do you think rae is definitely town?
isn't the town power 2 masons and a rolestopper. I find it a little hard to believe that there's no investigation.

mason doctors, and from the claims the mason doctors and rolestopper feel definitely true to me right now and the novice cop more of a probable but unsure need to think about it more and research

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:53 pm

In post 1718, Rae wrote:vfp claiming traitor or implying there is one is throwing me in a goddamn loop.

well i mentioned traitor long long ago and then not hectic (who vfp replaced) mentioned traitor very shortly thereafter and now it is hard for me to shake the feeling that hinting at traitor is possibly inherited knowledge which would have to be from a mafia pt i think? but also i thought about the possibility of a traitor from the setup and behaviours so it is probably unfair of me to think it is possibly mafia indicative of someone else to do so

shiki · Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:01 pm

In post 1730, Nero Cain wrote:I don't even understand the traitor talk.

you were a traitor in my first game on site +)

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:06 am

In post 1767, Dwlee99 wrote:I'm trying to find all the 12p games and look at how they've been balanced but I don't know how to find them.

12-player games from the last ten years of the mini normal archives:

Spoiler:

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:23 am

In post 1796, Nero Cain wrote:VFP arguing that I and/or Rae are scum and that DW is town b/c he didn't get hammered is crazy talk. In a DW/Sig/VFP team, he also doesn't get hammered.

isn't that the mafia team pretty much always if you are town?

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:24 am

like if 90ish% of the time it is

{rae, nero cain, sigmund}

or

vfp + 2 of {dwlee, nero cain, sigmund}

which is where we're at if we're discounting the possibility that rae and vfp are aligned and the possibility that the mafia thought not only will we act like masons all game but we will also claim doctors too

so if nero cain is town, mafia would be {vfp, dwlee, sigmund}
for town!sigmund it is {vfp, dwlee, nero cain}
for town!dwlee it is {rae or vfp, nero cain, sigmund}
for town!rae it is vfp + 2 of {dwlee, nero cain, sigmund}
for town!vfp it is {rae, nero cain, sigmund}

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:25 am

In post 1791, Dwlee99 wrote:tells me tomorrow that Shiki is evil I will believe him.

and we don't have to continue to make believe that i might be mafia here

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:29 am

In post 1801, VFP wrote:You can't rule out that scum me could also mean scum Rae.

In post 1799, shiki wrote:which is where we're at if we're discounting the possibility that rae and vfp are aligned

which is most of the 10% not accounted by the ~90%

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:31 am

wait unvote need to think about no elimination again

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:34 am

In post 1799, shiki wrote:so if nero cain is town, mafia would be {vfp, dwlee, sigmund}
for town!sigmund it is {vfp, dwlee, nero cain}
for town!dwlee it is {rae or vfp, nero cain, sigmund}
for town!rae it is vfp + 2 of {dwlee, nero cain, sigmund}
for town!vfp it is {rae, nero cain, sigmund}

so two of these players have to be town so two must be true so let's see here one sec

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:42 am

In post 1808, shiki wrote:
In post 1799, shiki wrote:so if nero cain is town, mafia would be {vfp, dwlee, sigmund}
for town!sigmund it is {vfp, dwlee, nero cain}
for town!dwlee it is {rae or vfp, nero cain, sigmund}
for town!rae it is vfp + 2 of {dwlee, nero cain, sigmund}
for town!vfp it is {rae, nero cain, sigmund}
so two of these players have to be town so two must be true so let's see here one sec

nevermind this just gives same results as above reworded; nero and rae can possibly be town together, sigmund and rae can possibly be town together, dwlee and rae can possibly be town together, dwlee and vfp can possibly be town together

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:45 am

In post 1807, VFP wrote:Also, a no lim is going to be worthless here.
Tactically scum just no kill, or just kill a mason.

sure but rae potentially gets an extra check in {dwlee, nero cain, sigmund}, and there isn't any downside right, like i know from your point of view rae is mafia so sure worthless to you, but, hm, interesting to me why rae was so opposed to this earlier even if he thinks he is unlikely to get another result

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:53 am

In post 1813, Dwlee99 wrote:If we are going to eliminate VFP we should do it before no eliminating in case VFP is a role that can counter a cop. If you want to throw Rae off a roof then my only reason for not no eliminating is that we keep two confirmed town voices in the game in T3 and Johnny (if they're here)

but if we eliminate vfp and the game doesn't end doesn't the mafia always eliminate rae unless they want to play 'maybe rae and vfp are aligned'?

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:53 am

In post 1814, shiki wrote:but if we eliminate vfp and the game doesn't end doesn't the mafia always eliminate rae unless they want to play 'maybe rae and vfp are aligned'?

or unless rae and vfp are in fact aligned, of course

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:55 am

In post 1815, shiki wrote:
In post 1814, shiki wrote:but if we eliminate vfp and the game doesn't end doesn't the mafia always eliminate rae unless they want to play 'maybe rae and vfp are aligned'?
or unless rae and vfp are in fact aligned, of course

and it doesn't make sense for mafia to angle for this if they aren't aligned because then they get caught on rae check and have to argue that rae redchecked a partner today and is now redchecking a town because he wanted to play longer? i guess?

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:58 am

In post 1817, Nero Cain wrote:Does a no lynch actually do anything here? Seems like scum would just kill rae or a mason and we'd be right back here or am I missing something?

well if mafia kill rae then we know for sure vfp is mafia and work only from those worlds, if they kill a mason we are back here possibly with an extra check from rae which solves the game if rae is town,

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:00 am

In post 1818, shiki wrote:
In post 1817, Nero Cain wrote:Does a no lynch actually do anything here? Seems like scum would just kill rae or a mason and we'd be right back here or am I missing something?
well if mafia kill rae then we know for sure vfp is mafia and work only from those worlds, if they kill a mason we are back here possibly with an extra check from rae which solves the game if rae is town,

like we'd still have to make the same decision between vfp and rae tomorrow if mafia kill a mason, but if we rae is town and we decide to vote vfp tomorrow after a no elimination today, we potentially have the game solved going forward from there

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:05 am

In post 1821, Dwlee99 wrote:I think we have a better chance of Rae getting as check off if we kill VFP first because VFP could have a way to block Rae's action from going through.

you think there's a higher chance of vfp being a roleblocker than of the mafia killing rae if vfp is eliminated and flips mafia today?

that doesn't seem right to me

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:29 am

In post 1823, Dwlee99 wrote:I think we have a better chance of winning if we kill VFP today for a variety of percent reasons.

i dunno, kinda feels like you do not want a no elimination for nefarious reasons

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:31 am

In post 1825, T3 wrote:Tbh we basically know that either rae/vfp is scum but probably not both.
Nero Dwlee and Sigmund are left and possibly shiki.
If we lim right in Nero Sigmund and Dwlee then if Rae is real he gets another check.

In post 1799, shiki wrote:like if 90ish% of the time it is

{rae, nero cain, sigmund}

or

vfp + 2 of {dwlee, nero cain, sigmund}

which is where we're at if we're discounting the possibility that rae and vfp are aligned and the possibility that the mafia thought not only will we act like masons all game but we will also claim doctors too

so if nero cain is town, mafia would be {vfp, dwlee, sigmund}
for town!sigmund it is {vfp, dwlee, nero cain}
for town!dwlee it is {rae or vfp, nero cain, sigmund}
for town!rae it is vfp + 2 of {dwlee, nero cain, sigmund}
for town!vfp it is {rae, nero cain, sigmund}

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:34 am

In post 1828, Dwlee99 wrote:If VFP is town I'm town. What nefarious purpose do you think I could have for wanting this flip first?

???? if vfp is mafia, and we no eliminate, rae checks in {dwlee, nero cain, sigmund}, and if there is no roleblocker the game is solved. so the nefarious purpose would be you being vfp's mafia partner and not wanting the game to be solved

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:35 am

In post 1829, shiki wrote:???? if vfp is mafia, and we no eliminate, rae checks in {dwlee, nero cain, sigmund}, and if there is no roleblocker the game is solved. so the nefarious purpose would be you being vfp's mafia partner and not wanting the game to be solved

or, rae is nightkilled, and then we know for sure that vfp is mafia, and work from there, right?

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:36 am

In post 1830, Dwlee99 wrote:If VFP is mafia and we eliminate, Rae checks in {Dwlee, Nero, Sigmund} and if no roleblocker the game is solved?

explain why rae doesn't get nightkilled in this situation

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:40 am

In post 1833, Dwlee99 wrote:Rae could just be night killed in the situation where we know we are eliminating VFP after a no elimination anyway. Then scum get to kill Rae and a mason.

right but then we know for sure that vfp is mafia

like town doesn't win by any more by keeping an extra town alive, i don't understand

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:45 am

In post 1840, Dwlee99 wrote:Also VFP is literally scumclaiming the past couple of pages.

i definitely do not disagree with this, last post pretty funny to think about though, in a like perspective sort of way

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:48 am

In post 1841, T3 wrote:VOTE: nero
VFP survives the day and rae if town gets another check.

if nero is mafia and rae is town mafia kill rae we kill vfp and then have to decide between sigmund and dwlee

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:49 am

In post 1846, shiki wrote:
In post 1841, T3 wrote:VOTE: nero
VFP survives the day and rae if town gets another check.
if nero is mafia and rae is town mafia kill rae we kill vfp and then have to decide between sigmund and dwlee

i already thought through any number of these in an attempt to avoid having to be in a position where i could be wrong and throw the game =/

shiki · Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:00 am

In post 1850, Dwlee99 wrote:So we aren't no eliminating, right? I'm allowed to vote VFP?

VOTE: vfp

shiki · Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:51 am

thankyou to ydrasse and menalque for moderating

and sorry town, this one’s on me across the board