Newbie 2077 : The Curse of a Blue Diamond!! - Gameover

[Salsabil Faria]

I think she says kennyk is trying too hard, missing the obvious motive as I pointed out for a scum accusation. It's good that someone is trying to be serious because this is how we move out of RVS, but kennyk is doing this wrong. She may also be accusing kennyk of doing that just to look town. I recall that the term LAMIST is used here for this.

Perfectly explained but I want to add one thing: they said they had an account here before, so they played before here imo. That's why I'm not taking them that much of a newb player and when I read their posts ("

this sus, that sus

"), I found they were trying

too much

which I generally find suspicious.

See, I get where you're coming from here, but having actually read some of the very old games here, his play is really not all that uncharacteristic for how people used to play here. I think the way he's playing makes at least a degree of reasonable sense so far and feels less like scum trying to manufacture an accusation and more like town trying to spur things on early.

I know I vote them 3 times already ( ) but I'm keeping an open mind. Still catching up, so let's see what happened next.

[Salsabil Faria]

VOTE: salsa

Understandable

[Salsabil Faria]

catboi, what does your scum game look like?

Not like this.

This response pings me....

[Salsabil Faria]

I, again, am noting that Uranus is avoiding making any substantive comment about the game despite being asked to. I realize the conversation has steered offtopic somewhat but at this point there's a conscious effort of what he's choosing to comment on vs what he's not talking about.

Yes, I agree on this.

[Salsabil Faria]

@mod: Entellian didn't post for quite some time. Even with the one day timer stop a prodding might be due.

@all other players: No, I didn't ask for a prodding because I miss my fellow mafia player. And no, this was no confession of being mafia. I would never confess that. Or maybe i would in some crazy setup or as part of a really crazy plan in some situations.

What is this!!!! Now you're deliberately playing scummy af!

[Salsabil Faria]

well I'm getting a medium townread on kenny, light townread on you and cow, currently unsure about STD or Salsa, the only negative reads I have rn are on catboi for what I said above and floo for the reasons kenny stated and him changing his playstyle wouldn't fit if he were a town. Entellion has done not a whole lot so I'm not sure on them.

Can you give your reasons for the reads?

[Salsabil Faria]

On the other hand I was internally debating if I even should ask for the prod or not because it would look like a link between Entellian and me. I even thought about PMing the prod request to our beloved mod to not getting unwanted attention in this matter.

Honestly I wrote the @all-part just to answer a few questions that I saw coming my way anyway after the first part of that post.

Asking for prod to anyone is NAI stuff, don't understand why you

think

people will ask questions about it....

[Salsabil Faria]

I just told you not to E-2 him because of the reasons you were giving. If you totally agreed with mine or had other good reasons: fine with me. Jump on the wagon. But I don't like to see townies get on bandwagons (not talking about random votes) more or less for no real reason even if it is going with what I believe is good. I could be wrong with my thought process. So getting someone close to a kill with me being wrong and others having no real sus is not what I wanna see in a mafia game.

And with this thought process it really didn't come to my mind that me getting you not to vote on floo for the reasons given would look partnery. On the other hand I was internally debating if I even should ask for the prod or not because it would look like a link between Entellian and me. I even thought about PMing the prod request to our beloved mod to not getting unwanted attention in this matter.

Honestly I wrote the @all-part just to answer a few questions that I saw coming my way anyway after the first part of that post.

i'm pretty satisfied with this explanation, thanks

How??

[ArcAngel9]

floo has requested to replace out. Deadline is frozen at 4 days 19 hours until a replacement is found.

[Salsabil Faria]

i'm pretty satisfied with this explanation, thanks

to elaborate on this: i was hoping for an answer that was something along the lines of "your vote doesn't help town", and i got just that, along with a pretty reasonable train of thought behind it

Can you explain more? How do you think

expressing paranoia

over NAI stuff without even getting pressure is coming from town mindset? The more I'm reading them, more I find them scummy but on the same time their wagon isn’t having that much of resistance I'm thinking scum!them would have atp which is giving me 2nd thoughts....

UNVOTE: kenny

[Salsabil Faria]

Yes, it was paranoia, that made me write what I did. And I even had a few things I didn't write because of said paranoia. So if you want further defence I will now lay down the left out thoughts.

From a general point of view there are (as I see it) four different setups regarding the connection between Entellian and me that matter concerning my prod demand (btw. the prodding didn't happen yet).:
1. We are both mafia.
2. We are both mason.
3. I am mafia, he is not.
4. I am town but not co-mason to him.

To 1.: I would definitely have PMed the mod about the prod. No one else seems to miss Entellian so why should I point it out in public and draw a connection between us. Yes this argument could be turned into the opposit: Because I knew I could always claim this, I did make it public to look town.
To 2.: This scenario is an even more PM one. Not only would a public prod post make the other townies sus of Entellian and me being scum. It might even get mafia to think, that we might be masons and therefor a viable nightkill.
To 3.: A setup in which public posting might be an option. It might look townish to be concerned about another potential towny not posting. On the other hand it can easily backfire.
To 4.: I definitely don't know what role Entellian has in this scenario. As in setup 3 it might look townish or scummy depending on what the others believe.

But having been accused of being too solvy made me dismiss the idea of writing this whole thing in my prod post. And please take into account that I only wrote a short version to each setup. the branches that are possible in most of them are going wide.

My question is, why do you think others will ask you questions
about the

prod

thing in the 1st place and they will start to find the connection between you and

Entel

over this?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i do kind of want to live longer though, maybe if i leave this post here the wind will carry it to Entellian and Radical Rat

You didn’t use self-meta in the last game with me though, didn’t talk about it earlier because it was ongoing.

well, i never really was in danger, and i didn't see a need to push it onto people either because nobody asked for it. both of those reasons are why i gave it here, though

Either way, it looks to be the case that Salsa has inside knowledge of Kenny's and StD's game meta that they come from. I'm hesitant to call out SvS interactions so early, but I'm not sure what another conclusion would be given this... the other option, I suppose, is that Salsa is Scum with floo. But this seems unlikely to defend a buddy so directly so early in the game.

i'm unsure i follow. to me, your reasoning looks okay, but combine it with salsa's quotes and it seems like it suggests the opposite.
right now, i see this:

1) STD and kennyk come from greylabyrinth.
2) you can see salsa voting kenny multiple times throughout the thread, despite her vote already being on them
3) kenny correcting uranus on how many votes he has suggests that people like him put a lot of emphasis on votes.
3b) ???
4) salsa's interactions with STD/kenny are SvS.
i can't really see what 3b is right now. without it, i think your conclusion feels like a stretch
then, you provide quotes from salsa. i'll go over those real quick

I was ISOing Salsa, and found some posts that pinged me:

Spoiler: Pinged Posts

I think she says kennyk is trying too hard, missing the obvious motive as I pointed out for a scum accusation. It's good that someone is trying to be serious because this is how we move out of RVS, but kennyk is doing this wrong. She may also be accusing kennyk of doing that just to look town. I recall that the term LAMIST is used here for this.

Perfectly explained but I want to add one thing: they said they had an account here before, so they played before here imo. That's why I'm not taking them that much of a newb player and when I read their posts ("

this sus, that sus

"), I found they were trying

too much

which I generally find suspicious.

This looks like either a defense of floo or a buddy attempt.

I think she says kennyk is trying too hard, missing the obvious motive as I pointed out for a scum accusation. It's good that someone is trying to be serious because this is how we move out of RVS, but kennyk is doing this wrong. She may also be accusing kennyk of doing that just to look town. I recall that the term LAMIST is used here for this.

what's the best way to move us outside of RVS, if the way kenny is doing it is "wrong"? is it just because the pushing happened to be on you because he thought your thought process was unclear? what happened in this game seems like just as good of a method as any, which is why i'm asking

I find

LAMIST play

scummy in general basis.
Almost every town games of mine, there was at least one scum

who appeared to be solvy in the early stage of the game

to gain towncred and in my scum games, I also tried to get towncred at RVS stage.

This might be nothing, or it might be made to make CLS look bad while also carrying the same thing of buddy/defence of floo in prior post.

1) i could see what you're pointing out: agreeing with and making floo's logic stronger will have that effect and scum!salsa probably wants that
but if you're looking for salsa vs kenny this is probably the worst quote to pull out. salsa makes no indication that they know about kenny's experience outside of what he's done on mafiascum. in fact, they mistakenly believe that they're not a newbie, which is later confirmed when kenny tells us about the two games they had on the account they lost their password to.
2) also reasonable, but another anti-pairing with kenny. they're using self meta to justify their read on them and showing that their vote isnt going anywhere

[Salsabil Faria]

One last thing before I get hammered (as I am quite sure this will be reason enough for someone to vote me). In case of my untimely death I would like my fellow townies to not only look at those who voted me but also at those who didn't vote me. I know it sounds like revenge and therefor I didn't wriite it directly after it occured to me. But cowsloveSushirolls kind of started the final bandwagon on me without even voting me. Could be he really was satisfied with my answer or he just wanted to be able to say 'What do you want? I didn't vote an innocent.' afterwards.

And now I am waiting for the Queen song 'Hammer to fall'.

clSr

is defending you iirr.

[Salsabil Faria]

Alright, so, here's my problem.

A prod post is, usually, profoundly NAI. If anything, it might just BARELY lean Town, because Mafia benefits from Town lurking, and are thus less likely to bring it up, but it usually isn't that deep.

This particular kind of overthinking though I believe is vastly more likely to come from scum than town. I don't really see a Townie being afraid that trying to prod a lurker would look scummy, and if they did I don't see them making a big show about it, probably, but not necessarily, just PMing it instead.

However, by your own admission, you did it publicly hoping to gain towncred off it, but then got too paranoid about it backfiring that you wound up overexplaining yourself. That's scum logic if ya ask me.

Yes, I agree with you on this but my experience here is holding me back tbh. A wagon which is formatting without strong resistance (specially on Day 1) has much more chance to flip as town rather than scum fmpov + they also are an old player. Even if I think

Entel

is their scum partner, hence no other wagon is formed and no resistance is formatting at the current wagon, as an experienced one, scum!

kenny

could be play the whole thing differently imo.

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Can you explain more? How do you think expressing paranoia
over NAI stuff without even getting pressure is coming from town mindset? The more I'm reading them, more I find them scummy but on the same time their wagon isn’t having that much of resistance I'm thinking scum!them would have atp which is giving me 2nd thoughts....

what kenny did was undoubtedly odd. i do not think it comes from a town mindset

only

though.
i think that what he did is something both town and mafia can do.
i pushed a little bit on something that i thought could actually be scummy (him defending floo despite voting them) and made it related to him being defensive about his prod, and he gave good answers to both
(i think that if mafia is forced to answer a lot of things at once, they'll struggle a bit, but his post felt natural, so i think he is town right now)

[Salsabil Faria]

One last thing before I get hammered (as I am quite sure this will be reason enough for someone to vote me). In case of my untimely death I would like my fellow townies to not only look at those who voted me but also at those who didn't vote me. I know it sounds like revenge and therefor I didn't wriite it directly after it occured to me. But cowsloveSushirolls kind of started the final bandwagon on me without even voting me. Could be he really was satisfied with my answer or he just wanted to be able to say 'What do you want? I didn't vote an innocent.' afterwards.

And now I am waiting for the Queen song 'Hammer to fall'.

by not defending you and only explaining why i thought you were town, i got two people to dig themselves into really deep holes

i have doubts that both of them are aligned with you

Which 2?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Which 2?

radical rat and uranus

[Salsabil Faria]

it was at the cost of a bit of discussion from me but i think kenny vs floo looks a lot more towny from both sides than kenny vs radical/uranus

What do you find to townread

floo

? I don’t still find any post from them after they said why they vote

kenny

....

[Salsabil Faria]

People I'd like to hear from before putting my vote back:

Salsa (V/LA should be up today)
catboi
Entellian himself (though that may not be possible...)

And everyone else, of course, but those are the main ones.

I just posts my thoughts on them but why I'm on the main one list, not the others??

[Salsabil Faria]

One last thing before I get hammered (as I am quite sure this will be reason enough for someone to vote me). In case of my untimely death I would like my fellow townies to not only look at those who voted me but also at those who didn't vote me. I know it sounds like revenge and therefor I didn't wriite it directly after it occured to me. But cowsloveSushirolls kind of started the final bandwagon on me without even voting me. Could be he really was satisfied with my answer or he just wanted to be able to say 'What do you want? I didn't vote an innocent.' afterwards.

And now I am waiting for the Queen song 'Hammer to fall'.

by not defending you and only explaining why i thought you were town, i got two people to dig themselves into really deep holes

i have doubts that both of them are aligned with you

Allthough cowsloveSushirolls defends me (again), I slightly disagree with him. I know some of you might (again) say I am overthinking things and that it makes me look even scummier, but I will try explain nonetheless.
From his point of view he can't be sure if I am townie or scum (unless he is scum himself or we are both masons. Yes I cover my bases again). He seems to feel, that I might be one of the good guys (at least I read his posts like that).

If he is correct (and I know he is, but that's another thing), and I would be killed in this bandwagon, I don't see the deep holes. It might as well have been, that both are town and both really thought, they caught scum. It sure would be something to go for, but definitely no deep hole.

If he is wrong and I am scum (which I am not), they did everything right and there is absolutely no hole in sight for them.

You're confusing me

[cowsloveSushirolls]

it was at the cost of a bit of discussion from me but i think kenny vs floo looks a lot more towny from both sides than kenny vs radical/uranus

What do you find to townread

floo

? I don’t still find any post from them after they said why they vote

kenny

....

i don't really think that floo looked very town when fighting with kenny, i think it's more that radical and uranus started pushing kenny wasn't good. i think floo's weird push looks townier when you compare them

speaking of floo

floo has requested to replace out. Deadline is frozen at 4 days 19 hours until a replacement is found.

going to go to bed

[Salsabil Faria]

People I'd like to hear from before putting my vote back:

Salsa (V/LA should be up today)
catboi
Entellian himself (though that may not be possible...)

And everyone else, of course, but those are the main ones.

I absolutely agree with you, that hearing their point of view would be good. But why not from Save the Dragons (I just noticed that using just the first letters of those three words is no good way to shorten his name) or floo? They didn't respond to this matter either.

I sadly guess you are right about Entellian. And I think Salsa won't change her tripple vote on me either (maybe only by adding more votes. Maybe I am listening to Queen too much [is that even possible?], but it might be she just did what she did, because she's the 'Killer Queen').

I like the upper part of this post.

[Salsabil Faria]

i think kennyk is town

Can you explain?

[kennyk]

3) kenny correcting uranus on how many votes he has suggests that people like him put a lot of emphasis on votes.

I guess i have to clarify why I did the following post:

Also
@Uranus

Whenever you put someone at E-1, please announce it as such. Don't want someone coming along, not properly reading, deciding to hop on the wagon, and hammering early. And you don't want to give scum a potential defense for doing it on purpose.

aight mate, thanks for the advice

E-1

... can't ... resist ...

@ Uranus: I guess you didn't read the thread properly. After Radical Rats Unvote I am now 'only'

E-2

So RR is explaining the whole concept of putting E-2 and E-1 on the respective voting posts. The main point being that unproper reading leads to miscounting of votes on someone and therefor could lead to (clamed) accidental kills.
Uranuss E-1 announcement would have been right in his original post. But as RR had unvoted me it wasn't correct at the time he made it. So a casual reader could have thought I was still at E-1 at that time.

It did strike me as funny (as I said my sense of fun is weird sometimes) that putting E-2 and E-1 is meant to clarify things while Uranuss post (unintentionally) did just the opposit. Like with bad puns I couldn't resist to post this.

[Salsabil Faria]

Allthough cowsloveSushirolls defends me (again), I slightly disagree with him. I know some of you might (again) say I am overthinking things and that it makes me look even scummier, but I will try explain nonetheless.
From his point of view he can't be sure if I am townie or scum (unless he is scum himself or we are both masons. Yes I cover my bases again). He seems to feel, that I might be one of the good guys (at least I read his posts like that).

If he is correct (and I know he is, but that's another thing), and I would be killed in this bandwagon, I don't see the deep holes. It might as well have been, that both are town and both really thought, they caught scum. It sure would be something to go for, but definitely no deep hole.

If he is wrong and I am scum (which I am not), they did everything right and there is absolutely no hole in sight for them.

i think the dug holes are there regardless of your alignment. radical's intending to put the vote back with no regard to how you reacted at E-2 and even

E-1

briefly, meaning that i think that they are holding on to their biases way too much. of course i don't believe that they're intent on murdering you this early, but the information feels like just the right amount to say "oh shoot, my evidence was flimsy wasn't it. moving on"

uranus feels slightly less like this. he mentions that you give him townpings, but for the most part he's pushing with radical on the exact same point. he's not particularly iffy with the mention of you being hammered, as shown with 150.

clarifying not i'm not mad that you were put at E-2/E-1, that kind of pressure is super good in a slow game like this. i'm talking about the attitudes both of these people have
the holes in this case are the fact that they're showing off that their votes aren't going to go anywhere, but the evidence doesn't feel solid, only conjecture

if it makes you feel more secure, i think I as scum would defend you similarly to this
this only solidifies your town status. it is my soul that wants you alive

UNVOTE: LicketyQuickety
feeling OPPORTUNISTIC...

Don’t get a thing, can you explain more about your case on

Radical

and

Uranus

please?

Also don't understand your stance on the

Catboi

slot, if you voted them for some reason, then why you said

LQ

is replaced in a town slot???

Who is feeling OPPORTUNISTIC btw?