Normal 2302: Magical Girls | GAME OVER

[OopsieDaisy]

hi guys,

just an fyi that i am town, and as such you don't need to worry about sorting my slot. takes it down from 12 players to 11 for y'all so hopefully we can all agree i'm chill and move on.

on another note,
VOTE: Elements

[OopsieDaisy]

also i read mini normal 2300 pre-game just to entertain myself and then spotted bristar and gera on the list of players here so hey i've got some sort of town meta to read them off, which is very poggers. tho tbf the biggest thing i learned from reading that is that gera is very likely to not like my style of play/personality so wcyd lol. we'll see tho

[OopsieDaisy]

hi guys,

just an fyi that i am town, and as such you don't need to worry about sorting my slot. takes it down from 12 players to 11 for y'all so hopefully we can all agree i'm chill and move on.

on another note,
VOTE: Elements

I was going to ask you to come and vote me, but I thought I'd wait for you to turn up first and now you've beaten me to it

I gotchu <3

[OopsieDaisy]

hi guys,

just an fyi that i am town, and as such you don't need to worry about sorting my slot. takes it down from 12 players to 11 for y'all so hopefully we can all agree i'm chill and move on.

on another note,
VOTE: Elements

Instant townread. I'm also town so no need to worry about my slot. Takes it from 11 to 10. We got this!

This is gonna be the easiest mafia game ever lets goooo

[OopsieDaisy]

geraintm is villagery

How come?

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: Oopsiedaisy

Doing pre-work before the game? Puts us all to shame.

Ok reading between the lines here tells me Bristep is maybe a lil intimidated by the fact that I've read that game and thus have a slight advantage over them in terms of meta knowledge. This pings slightly scummy to me, so I'm gonna persue this read.

UNVOTE: Elements
VOTE: Bristep

And you can be scum number 1

If you think Bristep is currently scum number 1, why haven't you voted there?

[OopsieDaisy]

Mental note, don’t attempt humour.

Ok yea I'm obvs stretching but it's RVS we've gotta start somewhere lol

[OopsieDaisy]

I agree with you on that (not exactly a OMGUS but paraphrasing) although it pinged me as slightly scummy that your first reaction was "my post was a joke, I'll try not to joke anymore" as opposed to anything else

Why alter your play because someone found you suspicious? Plus like, you weren't really responding to what oopsy said more so much as reacting dejectedly, maybe to change oopsy's mind. Admittedly what oopsy was arguing was a stretch but i think it would have been relatively easy to argue against

Tweet put it better than I could, my read on Bristar is getting gradually worse. I also feel like they're reacting differently then the stoic town Bristar I remember from reading 2300. It seemed like an emotionally motivated move to throw out the "Oh I can't joke now?" post and Bri in 2300 was one of the least emotional players in the game iirc. Again I'm basing this read off of a thread I skimmed through for funsies so if Gera thinks I'm mischaracterising here let me know, but from what I remember this is weird.

[OopsieDaisy]

In terms of other reads:

I like Towwl and Tweet. Towwl gave us some nice insight in 60 from the large normal he read, and instead of using that insight to ignite a push against a player like I am VS Bri, seeing him use that to cover Hu Tao and CKD from immediate susses is more passive yet is something I still like. Unless Towwl is scum with either of them (which is v possible) I like this play a lot and at this point in the game that's enough to lean town here.

Tweet I'm just on the same page as me so it's natural for me to lean town here. Could she already be setting up to buddy me by following my reads? Definitely. But her follow-up post against Bri in 84 did manage to vocalise a lot of the worries I had on the spot when I got the response I did, and I've liked the rest of her activity, so yea townlean here.

Sheep and Elements have made a lot of posts but I'm still yet to see anything that's pinged me towards town or scum for them. It should also be noted Elements is someone I've played with a lot and so I'm very aware their activity early game isn't really indicative of their alignment.

[OopsieDaisy]

How highly do you value meta Daisy?

As someone who plays way more irl mafia than forum mafia, where the focus is a lot more on body language and quick cases against other players, I value meta very highly. Obviously in forum mafia the ability to fake your self-meta is a lottt easier because you've only gotta worry about the content and style of your posts rather than all the extra stuff that irl mafia brings, so I do feel I likely value it too highly when in a forum setting, but it's an area I'm familiar with using to build my reads so I'm using that for now.

[OopsieDaisy]

How highly do you value meta Daisy?

Also right back at you, how highly do you value meta? I know you've used my meta for and against me a lot but you've also got a lot more forum experience so I'm interested to hear what you think.

[OopsieDaisy]

In terms of other reads:

I like Towwl and Tweet. Towwl gave us some nice insight in 60 from the large normal he read, and instead of using that insight to ignite a push against a player like I am VS Bri, seeing him use that to cover Hu Tao and CKD from immediate susses is more passive yet is something I still like. Unless Towwl is scum with either of them (which is v possible) I like this play a lot and at this point in the game that's enough to lean town here.

Interesting you view it as a town leany thing to do. If anything I think the opposite. All Towwl has done is point out something that happened to two players in a game. It's early day one so there have been hardly any reads going around I need to grab my laptop to type this up

That's fair, just in the absence of content that we have in the game right now I appreciate it. By saying this Towwl is showing he has specific knowledge on these players, and by committing to telling us what that knowledge is, he now has to stick by it. Mafia imo wouldn't show their cards as quickly.

[OopsieDaisy]

Tho I do agree active play > passive play typically, but it always depends on the player. Because I don't know anything about the metas/playstyle of anyone not named Elements/Gera/Bristar in this game I'm not gonna use that as a big point just yet. Especially because we're so early into the game right now.

[OopsieDaisy]

That's fair, just in the absence of content that we have in the game right now I appreciate it. By saying this Towwl is showing he has specific knowledge on these players, and by committing to telling us what that knowledge is, he now has to stick by it. Mafia imo wouldn't show their cards as quickly.

It is knowledge that is public, so it's not something special that's been brought up we couldn't have known otherwise.
Does saying that we know each other well and have played a lot of irl mafia together have the same effect? That's information about two players that the others problaby don't know, and also isn't available for them to find on the site. Therefore potentially showing more cards as it were

(The knowledge between our play is public, there's an old game from a couple years ago that's the only game played on this account that isn't this one. In that game we were v clear about us playing together, so yea it's public)

The fact that Hu Tao/CKD were heavily pushed and turned out to be town is public info, but his interpretations of the game aren't. Us having played together is an objective fact, but what Towwl took from that game could've been anything from "Hu Tao/CKD played super scummy in that game but happened to be town" to "Hu Tao/CKD were clearly town and yet everyone was hounding them??" to "I have no idea how to read these two someone help me".

I will say tho I just had another read of 64 and I seemed to have decided in my head what Towwl said was subjective when looking back now it *is* just the objective fact of "CKD and Hu Tao both had a lot of people scumreading them in large 243 and both were town".

@Towwl, did you think the scumreads of Hu Tao/CKD in that game were unwarranted, and do you feel your reading of that game has impacted how you're approaching them in this one?

[OopsieDaisy]

Tho I do agree active play > passive play typically, but it always depends on the player. Because I don't know anything about the metas/playstyle of anyone not named Elements/Gera/Bristar in this game I'm not gonna use that as a big point just yet. Especially because we're so early into the game right now.

if
Active > Passive
most of the time

does it not follow that you should default to that assumption when dealing with players you havn't enountered before until shown otherwise?

You saw the just yet, activity is a thing that I try and talk about when it's an ongoing issue. Yes the speed of this game was an issue on the first few pages, but any of those players could've just be away for a couple days so they've only able to give us lil baby posts so far.

Also I've lost a lot of my forum games to just deciding to vote based on activity, so I'm aware it's logic that hasn't worked for me in other games. I wanna be at least a little bit careful about applying that logic broadly to everyone.

[OopsieDaisy]

I mean active as in the content of the posts, not nececarily how often they are.

I still stand by my point. Passivity is a thing that mafia players can lean towards, but it's not a be all end all rule that I wanna be following in terms of my reads. Otherwise you'd be hard town every game because you are always an active player.

[OopsieDaisy]

LMAO

[OopsieDaisy]

also sorry el but i think i slightly scumread you now. it is incredibly funny to turn the attempt to get me talking about activity into a joke about you trying to get me to read you as town, but i do think there is definitely truth in that joke somewhat and that worries me a tiny bit (and yes you would be this open about it as mafia i know youuu)

[OopsieDaisy]

tho as always you're progressing the game well so i'm not like, calling for a wagon yet or anything, just keeping everyone updated on my read on you following the convo

[OopsieDaisy]

I asked you about your motivations. You lied.

My day 1 play is to get things to happen. If I say my motivation for doing X is to get things to happen it stops getting things to happen in the same way. So of course I lied, just so happened that this was a provable lie

As an fyi for people who want my opinion, this *kind of* checks out. Elements, like me, is someone who wants to push a proactive Day 1, often putting themselves on the line in order to create some form of activity. And you can't pressure someone into a reaction if you vocalise that intention as you vote them, because then they're fully aware of what you're doing.

Imagine if on my Bristar vote, instead of picking out an actual tangible reason to vote them, I just said nothing/an off-hand joke/outed the fact I wanted to see what they'd do if I voted em. Would we have seen the "glib" reaction then? Likely not.

On the other hand, yea El straight up lied about their thought process I can absolutely see why you wanna push this. Plus I think El is kinda scummy this game so far so I've no problem with them being a wagon. Just as someone who's played many games with El I don't find it ultra surprising like this is some out-of-character hand caught in the cookie jar moment. The biggest issue I have is El trying to manipulate me into preaching a stance that would benefit them with the activity thing :3

[OopsieDaisy]

bristep also town.

any particular reason why? seems to be a hot take right now

[OopsieDaisy]

Oi Daisy

wat

[OopsieDaisy]

Just wanted to say hi :3

dang, was hoping you were gonna come out with some awesome off-the-wall read that was gonna blow this game wide open

but also hi i hope the traffic is nice to you on your drives over the next couple days lol

[OopsieDaisy]

It's day 1, wait till day three then I'll have one for you

With the current state of the game it's not looking good on you making day 3 lmao, but also someone note this so we can make Elements come up with one if they make it :3

[OopsieDaisy]

bristep also town.

any particular reason why? seems to be a hot take right now

omg emperor look we're twins i also had a lovely and enlightening convo with goof <3

[OopsieDaisy]

Hmm, is the Bristep wagon gonna do anything or should I switch...

Here's my issue, I'm currently stuck between Bri and El as the two people in the game I scumread.

El has much more tangible things to be suspicious of, what with the open manipulation of me with the activity point and the lying about reads thing. But El is being an proactive player today poking/prodding/getting info from other players, and that's a great asset to have in our town.

On the other hand, Bri has less sussy things around em. Sure the out of character response on Page 2 is something, but Bri has essentially chilled out, let the game play on, and not shown their hand too much from there. On the other hand, Bri isn't doing anything to rock the boat bar the Page 2 stuff. With this slot I'm trying to discern if this is scum!bri letting someone else take the pressure/attention, waiting for the wagon to simply peter out, or if this is a town!bri that wants to calm down, recollect themselves, and start sorting through their own reads.

[OopsieDaisy]

Ah jeez I said on the other hand twice in the same paragraph that's kinda cringe

[OopsieDaisy]

daisy how much forum experience do u have

It's spread over a bunch of sites, but I think I've played like 10 forum games over the past 10 years, so I average about a game a year lol.

[OopsieDaisy]

daisy how much forum experience do u have

It's spread over a bunch of sites, but I think I've played like 10 forum games over the past 10 years, so I average about a game a year lol.

this is wild to me wtf

Tbf I also play an insane amount of irl mafia so I've been improving massively at mafia over the past few years. Playing usually 2 games every Tues-Thurs for 3 years now (bar the summers). Plus I'm a bit of a tryhard in those and like to spend a lot of time analysing my own play/figuring out how I can handle my weaknesses or embolden my strengths so y'kno, it checks out.

But hey thanks for the compliment it means a lot <3 I've got a lotta weaknesses but this kind of Day 1 is my kinda game so I'm having a great time.

[OopsieDaisy]

And I also think the "This isn't the time to figure out how I'd play as scum, I've played 4 town games a long time ago" comment was fairly genuine

I agree that it was a genuine comment, but I see it equally coming from a scum!bri who wants to use their previous 4 town games as leverage against the meta-based push. Like fundamentally the reason I'm still here on the wagon is because Bri has done absolutely nothing that has made me think they're town, and has done things that seem scummy to me compared to 2300.

[OopsieDaisy]

I think bristep had a defensive tone but him unvoting oopsie and especially accepting Oopsie's characterization of his meta being stoic and unaffected by reads despite that going against what he just did in his first posts

I do

like

this, but as much as subjectively I love the fact that Bri has acknowledged my meta read was correct and townreads me for it, this can easily again just be scum buddying up to me. Due to various incidents in the past where I've been prone to getting pocketed by players I originally thought were bad based on these kinds of reactions (El knows) I'm reading it as NAI for now. There's also the fact that when I push someone and they agree with my logic, that's gotta mean I'm at least somewhere close to on the money right?

[OopsieDaisy]

Ah jeez I said on the other hand twice in the same paragraph that's kinda cringe

Thoughts on drip?

Drip as in like, someone wearing some swaggy clothes? Or is this a forum mafia term I'm not familiar with?

If it's the former yea I love it when people wear the clothes they like and look super drippy in em

[OopsieDaisy]

OOO drippinggoofball I'm silly

Null, no reason to townread or scumread the slot right now. Reads are out there but I'm not gonna put much stock in them until I know the context behind them.

[OopsieDaisy]

Busy right now so can only throw out a short post, Flippy wagon is viable but everyone now trying to depart from the Bri wagon worries me cause I scumlean the slot.

[OopsieDaisy]

Ah jeez I said on the other hand twice in the same paragraph that's kinda cringe

Thoughts on drip?

Drip as in like, someone wearing some swaggy clothes? Or is this a forum mafia term I'm not familiar with?

If it's the former yea I love it when people wear the clothes they like and look super drippy in em

Or you know.. the person with drip in their name..

Lmao no need to put me down, I figured it out in the following post

[OopsieDaisy]

Also sadly as much as I am suspicious of Bristep, that wagon is petering out and so my vote is ultimately gonna be more useful for us elsewhere.

UNVOTE: Bristep

Train is stopping now, will evaluate the possible wagons properly once I'm home.

[OopsieDaisy]

Also sadly as much as I am suspicious of Bristep, that wagon is petering out and so my vote is ultimately gonna be more useful for us elsewhere.

UNVOTE: Bristep

Train is stopping now, will evaluate the possible wagons properly once I'm home.

I think u should come back, it was a top wagon before u unvoted

Is there anything new with bristep? I feel like him being a top wagon is stalling the game (or is it stalling because he's not reacting?) either way it's not going anywhere.

I'd vote Bristep over DGB or nulls but only at the end of the day

Yea Tweet hit the nail on the head here. Whilst I feel Bristep is currently the slot I think is most likely to flip scum, the wagon has stagnated and staying on it isn't going to do anything to change/mix-up the state of the game for now.

In order to make Day 1 useful, you want to use your votes and reads to make people make decisions, so that later down the line Day 1 can be a useful reference point when trying to figure out who's scum on Day 4/5 or smth.

It's also about making people's early game flips as valuable as possible. If someone who's said like a couple weak reads dies, it doesn't tell us as much compared to if someone who's been strongly pushing x player/hard defending y player/etc. dies. Sure a lot of kills come down to WIFOM but being able to verify whether the source of an opinion is town or scum is obvs super useful.

With this in mind, I'm going to be voting Elements. As I've stated before I'm already suspicious of El due to previous interactions, but I also feel that due to the actions of several players, the info gained from me pushing this will be a good asset for us going forward in the day (yes I'm being deliberately kinda vague here which I don't enjoy, but it's better than playing an open hand and showing scum exactly what I'm looking for).

VOTE: Elements

Should also clarify, this isn't me abandoning the Bristep wagon per se. I just think giving Bristep some space before we start talking about final votes might tell us more about their slot. I wanna see more from them and pushing them hard hasn't given us that "more" so it's worth trying something different whilst we have the space to do so.

[OopsieDaisy]

I claim deathproof cop with a n0 guilty on
Hu Tao
OopsieDaisy
and curiouskarmadog


got the whole scum team. We can all go home now

Hey Fire can you do me a favour and scumread me so that my flip means something if I die in the night? Cause right now everyone bar Karma who's spoken about me has me as a townread and I'm worried that means I'm probably just getting sloshed tonight as a non-controversial mafia kill.

[OopsieDaisy]

i'm disappointed no one laughed at my "meh"-taverse joke.

VOTE: bristep for now but i want to take a closer look at Elements too. I still prefer Hu Tao but I don't know if that's happening.

I was originally gonna hound STD with questions about this since it came right after my post that imo had some strong logic for ditching the Bri wagon and hopping onto El (or well, just someone more active than Bri), but STD said they'd look into El too so I'm just noting my feelings about this for now and we'll circle back in a few days if STD decides to try and get by without looking into El.

[OopsieDaisy]

I like your EFN reasonsing too, I'll hop on that if the wagon grows

Everybody is saying the EFN wagon is viable but refusing to hop on. Feeling very lonely

Sorryyy I'm just stuck on the El/Bri sus reads right now. It's one of those wagons I'd vote if like, it was townreads or nulls as the current top wagons, but because the big wagons right now are El/Bri (I don't know who else is big it's been a while since the last VC and my memory is bad) I don't wanna change that until something about my reads changes.

[OopsieDaisy]

One question I have Karma.

see, NOW this is where a meta comes in.

if I go back and read your other games, will I find Day 1 read to be 80% made up?

You state here that the meta matters with your read on El, where if they made up reads in other games that would affect your read on them. (at least that's what i'm getting from this post lemme know if i'm wrong)

Then, in 205 I state that I am fairly unsurprised to see that El had lied about her read on you, as this matches up decently well with the meta I have of her. Alongside this, in 227 Tweet states her meta read on Elements sees her flaking out as scum. At that point in the day, Elements was one of the most active posters in the town and thus a scum!el world contradicts Tweet's meta read.

Despite this, I've seen zero acknowledgement of either of these meta reads in your analysis. You did talk about 205 in your 294, but all your comment here tells me is how hard focused you are on getting the wagon going through brute force and pressure rather than talking about the things that at the time were standing in the way of your wagon (Meta reads, El's proactivity being good to keep in the game, etc.).

205, OD says she would have no problem joining element wagon, but stays on the Bris wagon for....what was the reason (need to look up)

^^ this is the quote I'm talking about.

I'll also answer the question here again even tho I've talked about this at length, as iirc Karma didn't like people pointing them to previous posts - Bri was someone I scumread harder because there weren't any strong counterpoints to the Bristar wagon. Bristar wasn't playing proactively, Bristar's meta painted their slot in a harsh scummy light as their town play was known to be stoic/unemotional (and yet reacted with some bite at my RVS vote), etc. The Elements wagon was tempting, but the proactive nature of Elements' play made me want to keep my vote away from El at the time. Obvs that has changed now, but that's due to the Bristar slot going cold, so any push there isn't gonna be bringing the town new info.

I'm wondering now if bringing these meta reads on Elements to your awareness has changed your read on her at all?

[OopsieDaisy]

Hellooooo. This one just woke up and is already having kind of a bad day for external reasons, but please do send me posts and summaries and it'll try to catch up and analyze when it can.

Hiii, I'm asking the new players to sus read me because most people in the game have been townreading me, so you should spice it up for us

(Also your slot was pretty inactive and played against their town meta so you're currently high on my scum list, it's like a perfect set-up for a 1v1 :3)

[OopsieDaisy]

(Also your slot was pretty inactive and played against their town meta so you're currently high on my scum list, it's like a perfect set-up for a 1v1 :3)

Pardon me, but didn't you say your town meta on that slot was... a pregame?

I don't exactly know what "a pregame" means but if you mean I read a game that a couple players from this game were in accidentally (legit just picked the most recent mini norm cause I was bored), then realised I was gonna be in a game with them so used my reading to form a meta on their slots as they were both town, then yes I did pregame

[OopsieDaisy]

That is an embarrassing entrance but this one is just going to blame the bullshit it's grandpa has decided to put it through. Either way, lol lmao "a pre-game?" aside, this one doesn't put much stock into meta it has not directly played with. Could you perhaps tell me any non-meta reasons for a Bristep sus?

Very inactive/passive slot. Bri didn't make any concrete pushes whatsoever. The only strong read I remember them bringing up was that I was town for pushing them and that my meta read on them from the pregame was in fact correct.

[OopsieDaisy]

And hey if Bri's agreeing with my logic there, it doesn't look great for em

[OopsieDaisy]

who cares if I am aggressive?

for the record I kinda do, but that's just cause when someone becomes aggressive towards me I become uncomfortable and will thus try and avoid future interactions with said aggression. I've got soft skin so just try and tread carefully around me please lol. I feel like I don't need to get into how me avoiding interactions with other players makes the game harder to play out for everyone (since less info would end up in the game).

[OopsieDaisy]

I havent had time to any meta. if you noticed I didnt post for the longest of time and JUST got caught up. is there a particular game of Elements you think would be good for me to read?

At the end of the day, if the game you have found for Elements doesnt show her lying about why she thinks someone is town Day 1 just to get it started...and then attempt back tracking on said read....it wont be that convincing.

now that Bris as replaced out...thoughts?

Unfortunately the games I'm thinking of are irl/audio-based games, and there exists no recording of those. So yea, rip lmao. Elements can attest to the fact I've been playing that form of mafia with her for like three years now but if that's not enough for you (which it looks like it won't be cause I can't bring any hard evidence to the table), fair enough. Just know that the meta read I have on Elements will factor into how I read her.

Also I'm on the Elements wagon now, I think it's definitely worth exploring since Bri's slot has just been replaced and we've got a bit of time before wagons become more committal.

My questions have been more to try and get a read on you since I agree with Elements on the fact that I feel you've been very tunneled on their slot, and your reads on others have been based on the assumption that your wagon is the correct one to be on and thus anyone resisting it/not voting on it becomes an enemy. If you don't feel you're playing this way that's ok, it's just my current read on your slot. I do read you as town because of this though, as it's the kind of passionate play that I find town making a lot more often than scum.

And replying to your point about aggression, yea I think you're ok right now. It's just I wanted to make you (and everyone else) aware of how I get around aggression so we don't run into any issues with it in future days.

(also dang sorry to hear about that endgame you had that sounds rly sucky)

[OopsieDaisy]

wait i just realised firebringer is gonna destroy me, i lose the type matchup

[OopsieDaisy]

Idk i think all the word walls u and a few others are doing might put me to sleep so think u have a good chance of whittling down my health while im snoozing.

Sleep Powder OP

I'm just invested, and when I'm invested I post like a madwoman

[OopsieDaisy]

HighPrincessErinys [ 3 ] sheepsaysmeep, geraintm, Save the Dragons

seems like a bad wagon

How come? It's in my top 2 favourite wagons right now

[OopsieDaisy]

HighPrincessErinys [ 3 ] sheepsaysmeep, geraintm, Save the Dragons

seems like a bad wagon

How come? It's in my top 2 favourite wagons right now

You don't seem so willing to vote for me despite being a top 2 scumread, though.

My vote has been on your slot the majority of the day, I'm just exploring more options right now because I wanna see if that helps inform some of my reads.

[OopsieDaisy]

(which tbf it already has :3)

[OopsieDaisy]

And hey if Bri's agreeing with my logic there, it doesn't look great for em

And hey if Bri's agreeing with my logic there, it doesn't look great for em

Yeah that's uh... Why the hell did he DO that?? Damn.

The only thing bri admitted to was typically being a stoic player, which was a little bit of a contrast to how pushing him seemed to bother him early this game

Bristep could be scum there's nothing really to go off of

These sentences seem contradictory to me. There's the meta contrast and then the fact that he proceeded to respond to the push by reading me town for it and giving basically nothing else to the game. That's what there is to go off of.

I'm suspicious of both Erinys (due to Bristar) and Elements and want one of them voted out today. The Emperor wagon is fine, I'm not gonna be offended if it happens cause Emperor isn't giving us much in the way of activity at all and I read the slot null, but that flip is gonna tell us a lot less than an Erinys or Elements one imo.

[OopsieDaisy]

Tho at least me vocalising not particularly wanting an Emperor wagon is already something so hey it might be worth it in a couple days

[OopsieDaisy]

The Emperor wagon is fine, I'm not gonna be offended if it happens cause Emperor isn't giving us much in the way of activity at all and I read the slot null, but that flip is gonna tell us a lot less than an Erinys or Elements one imo.

Bristar hasn't given us much in the way of activity either; in fact, even less. I'm not convinced that a bri/hpe flip necessarily tells us any more than an Emperor flip. IMO there's more texture to the reads that people have given to Emperor. hpe's slot has been basically just SR'd by everybody the whole game. There's not a lot to go off of there. (Though I do agree with DGB that hpe has felt scummy).

There's a lot to work from with an Elements flip as Elements has commented on basically everybody and basically everybody has commented on Elements, but at the same time I feel like I've seen more arguments from you as to why Elements is town rather than scum lately, particularly in 372. Also your reasoning for your current push on Elements has been mainly focused on game progression rather than a strong belief that Elements is scum (326). I'm not convinced that you're convinced of the Elements wagon.

I do feel that because the wagon on Erinys' slot has been going on longer, people have had to make more decisions around it. Though yeah getting more info from the flip would involve really looking into who was silently against it as I think only DGB vocalised that she didn't like the Bri wagon.

It's tricky, cause my brain is telling me to vote Elements with my slight scumread + game progression reasons. I do think this is a really strong vote to push the game forward and to make this Day 1 mean something.

However my heart is stuck on the Bri/Erinys slot. It's just I can't put aside how scummy I felt Bri was playing, and Erinys hasn't done anything to bump my read back up from where it was pre-replacement.

The Hu Tao read on Tweet was weird, three people jumping straight onto voting them is weirder (including someone who I think is a baller vote and kinda sussy). I think this could be a wagon that scum are seeing as a bit of a get out of jail free card to escape Day 1. But obvs I'm biased in this assessment with the reads I've been pushing all game on Bri/Erinys & Elements.

[OopsieDaisy]

OD, do you feel I am being aggressive? Seriously?

This wasn't addressed to me but I feel your play is a 180⁰ from last game. So it borderline makes me want to vote you.

180 you say? How so....like exactly how? This is easy to say, but how exactly? this is funny, because in Day 1 (in that game), you joined scum in voting me because I started attacking someone early who I felt was scum.

so EXACTLY how is it different? Im trying to figure out if you actually believe this or not.

Yea this is pinging me a lot more in regards to the Hu Tao slot, I don't see how CKD's play is a 180 from their last game together (i read a lil bit of it pregame as well :3).

[OopsieDaisy]

I'm also concerned about a possible STD/Elements pairing. STD's vote onto Bristar just as I switch onto the Elements wagon seemed like he was trying to take pressure off of the Elements slot, and now the naked votes from both of them flying onto Hu Tao is also ringing alarm bells.

[OopsieDaisy]

Yeah the Elements wagon is dead at this point, let's make my vote useful again.

UNVOTE: Elements
VOTE: HighPrincessErinys

I think Hu Tao is playing scummy but the way this wagon has gone from 0-4 votes in a page just stinks to me, alongside one of my scumreads openly endorsing it. Gonna stick with my gut read that Bristar was scum.

[OopsieDaisy]

Also since we're gonna be getting near the point soon, could we announce intents to hammer before we do so the players have a chance to claim? Or is that not something people are a fan of?

[OopsieDaisy]

Also since we're gonna be getting near the point soon, could we announce intents to hammer before we do so the players have a chance to claim? Or is that not something people are a fan of?

That’s standard procedure

That's good to hear

[OopsieDaisy]

I think Hu Tao is playing scummy but the way this wagon has gone from 0-4 votes in a page just stinks to me, alongside one of my scumreads openly endorsing it. Gonna stick with my gut read that Bristar was scum.

What, if anything, do you think has changed since I was pushing for a Hu Tao wagon?

The bout of posts from 420-426 is what pinged me on that slot. Before these posts Hu Tao to me was someone who I wasn't paying much attention to as an inactive player who apparently was pushed rly hard as town in their previous game (as per Towwl). But a lot of the posts Hu Tao just made don't make sense. The idea of Karma doing a 180 from their last game, the sudden jump onto Tweet for not voting for Emperor, etc. I think that makes a pretty direct opening for a wagon and plenty have took up the opportunity to hop on.

[OopsieDaisy]

Also since we're gonna be getting near the point soon, could we announce intents to hammer before we do so the players have a chance to claim? Or is that not something people are a fan of?

oh shit is it that close wtf

I think it's 4-3 or 4-4 right now I wanna say, tho I'm terrible at keeping count lol. I just wanted to clear the hammer thing up now since there are only a two or three days left for us to decide who to elim.

[OopsieDaisy]

So why does that stink to you?

Because from what I know about large normal 243, Hu Tao was wrongly voted out when they were town and so when I see them similarly getting pushed here I'm worried about another misvote on the slot based on what is just them making reads that don't make much sense to us.

Alongside this I scumread you and STD has strong associations with you through voting. Seeing you both on the wagon worries me too.

[OopsieDaisy]

Plus the counterwagon is my strongest scumread, so naturally I want to see that wagon get pushed through too.

[OopsieDaisy]

Hu Tao was wrongly voted out

Just to be clear, Hu Tao wasn't voted out in that game, they survived to the end.

Oop I was wrong my b, what exactly happened with Hu Tao's slot in that game again? Clearly I need a refresher lol

[OopsieDaisy]

curiouskarmadog and Hu Tao both had a lot of people scumreading them in large 243 and both were town. Also the on-again-off-again relationship between Andante and Flavor Leaf on D1/D2 was fun to read but that's not quite as relevant here.

How far into the game were they incorrectly scum read? And what were the reasons?

ckd was one of the first wagons on D1 because of an early case made against them by scum, vaguely claimed a negative utility pr due to being a prominent wagon and needing to go V/LA for a bit, then was on a lot of people's lists for the rest of the game until they were killed N5 and flipped as an ascetic townie. I think most of their heat came from scum though iirc. They were pretty clearly town to me when I read the thread!

I don't really remember why Hu Tao was SRd though. People just think they have scummy vibes or something. I think activity levels was an argument. D1 went on forever and they were a competing wagon there for a good bit of it. They survived to the end.

I hope I get a good grade on my large normal 243 quiz

AHA i found the post :3

so ok I was wrong about a misvote but I was right about the scummy vibe/activity levels fuelled push thing. i'll take that i was like half right sdklgjk.

[OopsieDaisy]

Does this change your view on the wagon at all?

My core worries about this being a really easy bail out push for scum and the fact that a possible scumteam are on it do remain. I will admit though the pie-in-my-face feeling I felt misremembering Towwl's 243 post has took some of my confidence away lol.

[OopsieDaisy]

So why does that stink to you?

Because from what I know about large normal 243, Hu Tao was wrongly voted out when they were town and so when I see them similarly getting pushed here I'm worried about another misvote on the slot based on what is just them making reads that don't make much sense to us.

Alongside this I scumread you and STD has strong associations with you through voting. Seeing you both on the wagon worries me too.

most people get voted off wrongly. scum arent dumb.
this post screams "i know they are going to flip green and wantt o get that in now"

naughty point for you

Yea I do think they're gonna flip green, that's why I made the post lol. Most people do get voted off wrongly but it's important to try and prevent that right? That's like the whole point of the game

[OopsieDaisy]

@oopsiedaisy

you can do it in different ways, and this felt like you were performing the whole slot is going to get voted off and woe is town

Well from what I gather, that means you think I'm scummier but you also think Hu Tao is townier because of my post, so I guess that's still a win for me getting people off of that wagon lmao.

[OopsieDaisy]

Emperor and Hu Tao i think has at least one

Can you explain to me what makes Emperor & Hu Tao more suspicious than Bri/Erinys? Bar the inactivity point because that's true for all of em (I guess bar Erinys but my sus read on that slot is way more based on Bri anyways)

[OopsieDaisy]

What I'm stuck on is like, I got all these town reads for the moves I was making in the early game against Bristar and Elements, and yet when I want to action on those moves later in the day, all of a sudden there's so much pushback? Like why lol it just makes me more determined to get my wagons through ykno. Which I'm aware v much leads to tunneling. As a bit of a selfish reason I also want the Bri/Erinys slot out just so I'm not gonna sit there going insane tunneling on Erinys for the rest of the game because I'm so paranoid due to how this Day 1 is playing out.

[OopsieDaisy]

Maybe I just need to get over myself, sorry if I'm being an issue lol

[OopsieDaisy]

(I guess bar Erinys but my sus read on that slot is way more based on Bri anyways)

What do you think of Erinys so far? Has it changed your read on the slot at all?

Nothing it's said has shaken the scum feeling I have on the slot. I didn't like it's bitter little gotcha sentence at the end of breaking down your reads but honestly that's not alignment indicative. The only thing I found a little odd was it's choice to not vote onto Hu Tao when given the opportunity, instead deciding to join me in the "this wagon feels weird" group. That maybe bumps it up a little bit but only in the world where Hu Tao is town ofc.

[OopsieDaisy]

daisy

why do you think Hu Tao is town

Because unlike a lot of other wagons that have had to be carefully built up over the game, the Hu Tao wagon (outside of Elements' pushes) felt like a flash wagon. A justifiable one but still the speed at which it picked up scared me. Alongside this the source of the wagon, Elements, is also someone I'm suspicious of. Compare that to me starting the Bri wagon and Karma (who I read very town) starting the Elements wagon, and you can see how I have a lot more trust in who kicked off those wagons. I'm becoming slightly more at ease with a Hu Tao flip the more I realise it actually would give us good info, but these are the doubts I have around it.

[OopsieDaisy]

daisy

why do you think Hu Tao is town

Because unlike a lot of other wagons that have had to be carefully built up over the game, the Hu Tao wagon (outside of Elements' pushes) felt like a flash wagon. A justifiable one but still the speed at which it picked up scared me.

why are flash wagons scummy

Because they don't give the town chance to discuss. And with scum having access to a PT, it's important that town also get the chance to coordinate by talking openly about the wagons in play.

Obvs we've been given this space now so I can be less worried about it, but that's why I don't like em. Maybe it's more of a personal preference than an alignment thing and that's something I can figure out at some point, but I definitely had an instinctual adverse reaction to seeing 4 people pile onto someone outta nowhere.

[OopsieDaisy]

Except it wasn't out of nowhere

Yea true, even I acknowledged that weird bout of posts from Hu Tao that caused it.

[OopsieDaisy]

Except it wasn't out of nowhere

Yea true, even I acknowledged that weird bout of posts from Hu Tao that caused it.

What's weird about it?

I don't understand how you feel Karma is playing 180 degrees different than their previous game, and I was struggling to follow why you scumread Tweet for her post voting Emperor.

[OopsieDaisy]

daisy

why do you think Hu Tao is town

Because unlike a lot of other wagons that have had to be carefully built up over the game, the Hu Tao wagon (outside of Elements' pushes) felt like a flash wagon. A justifiable one but still the speed at which it picked up scared me. Alongside this the source of the wagon, Elements, is also someone I'm suspicious of. Compare that to me starting the Bri wagon and Karma (who I read very town) starting the Elements wagon, and you can see how I have a lot more trust in who kicked off those wagons. I'm becoming slightly more at ease with a Hu Tao flip the more I realise it actually would give us good info, but these are the doubts I have around it.

This kind of wagon speedmetering is always BS.

Why? Because on Day 1, scum is more likely to

rush

to

bus

a troubled buddy for future towncred than to defend said troubled buddy, and deal with the consequences for the rest of the game.

To further sort the wagon participants as more or less scummy, and use that to evaluate the value of the wagon, is absurd. It's like a Russian doll of unknown variables, and utterly worthless.

I'm surprised to hear scum is more likely to bus Day 1 when the reads are the most scattered, but I'll try n keep that in mind.

In terms of the second point, I understand there are way more variables at play when analysing a wagon vs analysing a player, but truthfully I just get very tetchy/paranoid around any final couple days of a day, and I become almost hyperaware about how other players are moving about in the game. A fact I do forget a lot is that there is a strong majority of town players in the game right now, so leaning into trusting the consensus rather than fearing the crowd might be something worth doing.

(Ask El about my final 3's omg I am a mess in those. I'm gotten better but it's still rough lmao)

The issue is my impulses are strong (ADHD) and have now been reinforced with my irl mafia experience. That + my relatively low forum exp means I'm gonna need time to figure out how best to analyse forum games, as I'm more used to being a bull in a china shop creating chaos and being the one making people react, rather than being the one who is able to efficiently analyse all of those reactions. But yea, this game is a learning experience for me, apologies if my logic doesn't track for you.

[OopsieDaisy]

(Ask El about my final 3's omg I am a mess in those. I'm gotten better but it's still rough lmao)

Was it 7:0 in final 3s at one point for you?

I know at the end of my first year of irl mafia I was 4 wins - 27 losses in final 3's LMAO it was shocking.

I'm at like 50/50 odds irl now but that's mainly just because the players around me are newer/less experienced and I've had time to grow. I think here I'd be struggling sdgkj;

[OopsieDaisy]

Except it wasn't out of nowhere

Yea true, even I acknowledged that weird bout of posts from Hu Tao that caused it.

What's weird about it?

I don't understand how you feel Karma is playing 180 degrees different than their previous game, and I was struggling to follow why you scumread Tweet for her post voting Emperor.

Karma was very scummy day 1 last game. I hated just about every post and thought he was scum. This one I like every post. Should I not be concerned I feel differently?

What's concerning about Karma reading town this game compared to reading scum in the previous game? Could it not just be due to you being more used to Karma's playstyle/meta that you can make a more informed read now? I find the way I read certain players can vary dramatically depending on how much experience I've had with them.

[OopsieDaisy]

Except it wasn't out of nowhere

Yea true, even I acknowledged that weird bout of posts from Hu Tao that caused it.

What's weird about it?

I don't understand how you feel Karma is playing 180 degrees different than their previous game, and I was struggling to follow why you scumread Tweet for her post voting Emperor.

Karma was very scummy day 1 last game. I hated just about every post and thought he was scum. This one I like every post. Should I not be concerned I feel differently?

What's concerning about Karma reading town this game compared to reading scum in the previous game? Could it not just be due to you being more used to Karma's playstyle/meta that you can make a more informed read now? I find the way I read certain players can vary dramatically depending on how much experience I've had with them.

To me it's he's playing different than he was as town. So? Why would I not be concerned? It's not that hard to understand I think.

Oo ok I get you now

[OopsieDaisy]

pedit: sudden burst of activity from HT as I write this. Maybe I'm a little sus of OD that she's on top of new activity the instant there's something interesting happening but also I guess I can't sus her that much since I'm doing the exact same thing. Whatever. I'm still posting this mess.

What's suspicious about being on top of new activity? Haven't I been doing that the entire game lol

[OopsieDaisy]

i get that its vague so you can cchange your claim later but scum would want to be more precise = more honest = more towny

If Hu Tao is scum, it's a great strategy to smoke out town investigative roles of every kind for counterclaiming.

Part of me wants a fullclaim from HT but it's not sure how useful that really would be for town.

I don't think that's worth doing today, but it should be discussed tomorrow probably. It's not worth telling scum if the PR Hu Tao has is a banger role or a stinky role because then they just get to be more educated about possible RBing.

[OopsieDaisy]

Also as much as I do want an Erinys elim today, I've gotta admit Emperor has said themself that they're not feeling this game and that makes their slot a lot less valuable than Erinys', as it's shown a willingness to produce at least some content today.

[OopsieDaisy]

Also as much as I do want an Erinys elim today, I've gotta admit Emperor has said themself that they're not feeling this game and that makes their slot a lot less valuable than Erinys', as it's shown a willingness to produce at least some content today.

Are you saying I’m willing to produce content. Or saying this other person will?

I'm saying Erinys is more willing to produce content, sorry for the miscommunication

[OopsieDaisy]

But all things accounted for my final thoughts are just to nail HT to the wall regardless of the claim, but that's probably because this one sees the claim as an attempt to guarantee my miselim and nothing else.

Why not wagon Emperor instead? Sure you might read the HT claim as a scum attempt to survive, but do you not see voting out a slot claiming an investigative PR as a risky move? Like the high roll of us getting a scum out is great but the low roll sucks so much if it's something good.

[OopsieDaisy]

Ok so Hu Tao's claim is simulateneously scummy for the timing of the claim and how it makes Erinys even more consensus-y as a wagon, however I am not interested in voting out HT today because Day 1 isn't the day to risk voting out PRs. That's something to deal with later in the game when more info is on the table.

Erinys is still playing fairly reactive and I still maintain a scumread on the slot, but with how the HT/HPE situation is playing out and the fact that well, when you replace into a slot that's in that bad of a position in the game yea of course you're gonna start on the defensive, I think the Emperor wagon is a wiser wagon to push today due to less activity coming from that slot. My vote could still change but we've not got long left so we really need to start pushing something right?

UNVOTE: Erinys
VOTE: Emperor

[OopsieDaisy]

She thinks I'm really cool *hair flick*

You ARE really cool :3

Ok but fr Elements is a wagon I wouldn't mind right now but I don't see people agreeing to it. It'd be fighting a lost cause, I tried for a good few pages today arguing for an Elements wagon but no one was biting. People aren't interested so I can worry about the slot tomorrow.

I'm also faced with the fact that instead of developing more townreads, I've found myself instead now scumleaning Hu Tao and tbf I don't know if "scumread" is the right word but Emperor to me looks like a reasonable wagon at this point because trying to get content out of that slot has been difficult and they've admitted it themselves. If I'm now reading Erinys/HT/Emperor all as bad, Elements would be more likely good purely based on numbers. (obvs i understand Erinys + HT is a bit of a wild world, at least to me, but the numbers point still stands)

I traditionally have a lot of paranoia around the Elements slot because we've got history and I know what she's capable of (she's had my number many a times), but the more I sit in this game the more I'm realising that it really could've been just paranoia.

Still woulda been a sick wagon for info tho.

[OopsieDaisy]

Well, I say no one was biting but I had Karma backing me up, we were just approaching the wagon very differently

[OopsieDaisy]

With the core of the wagon being you/me/ckd I think it's very possible for us to rally 4 more votes on Elements before the day ends.

Emperor is also a fine choice though of course. As is HPE.

True but at this point I think we just need to pick something and stick to it. The player in question would need time to claim so we can't really explore all the options thoroughly, and Emperor seems like a pick most of my town reads are agreeing on. There's also the fact that the low roll of losing Emperor is that we lose a player who self-admittedly just is struggling to get into the game, and that's not as bad as losing someone like Elements who was playing very proactively earlier on today, or HPE who has spent it's entire time in the game under fire, thus meaning it's constantly been on the defensive and unable to simply give reads in a lower pressure environment. As much as I read the slot as scum I wanna see how HPE plays with the reset of Day 2, and I feel like spending the end of today digging myself deeper into the tunnel wouldn't do town any good.

TL:DR - Emperor is a low risk vote that my town reads agree on for the most part, and with little time left in the day, I want us to commit to a wagon so we have space for claims and the like.

[OopsieDaisy]

I will say I do love that core of people who could start the wagon but I disagree on it being very possible for us to drum up the 4 more votes we'd need.

[OopsieDaisy]

Your table is very pretty Towwl but it's like 3am over in brexit land I've gotta sleep, I'll give it a read over tomorrow tho thanks for putting in the effort to make some cool content <3

[OopsieDaisy]

If I'm now reading Erinys/HT/Emperor all as bad[...]

Here check out this beautiful table

HPE	EFN	HT	Verdict
town	town	town	if this is the case, well done so far scum
town	town	scum	assuming 3 scum i dont think HT has 2 partners outside of HPE/EFN (i say as much in 558), also i really think there's 1 scum in HPE/EFN
town	scum	town	very possible
town	scum	scum	very possible
scum	town	town	i think HPE is unpaired with EFN/HT, so for me this makes the most sense for scum!HPE
scum	town	scum	Idk why HPE/HT would do page 24 the way they did if they were both scum. hard for me to see
scum	scum	town	this perhaps lines up well with my reads but also I just think this is a tough sell because i dont think HPE/EFN are paired
scum	scum	scum	this is both too easy of a solve (theyve been the most sussed so far) and also too difficult of a solve (difficult pairings)

Idk how useful this is but I've spent too much time getting the bbcode to work to just not post this

I agree with most of this, tho I do think there's a world where HT was being bussed by a partner, making the T/T/S world pretty possible in my eyes.

[OopsieDaisy]

Issue with the T/T/S world is that y'kno, the people I've pushed are flipping town and the person I defended is flipping scum, which is a bit of a cringe world that I hope we're not living in lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

At this point if we switch off of me and still hit green then scum is gonna know to shoot me anyway

Then lets hit red

UNVOTE: Emperor
VOTE: Erinys

Just like with HT, I don't wanna vote out a power role Day 1 it's not worth the risk. There is little time left in the day so I'm defaulting back to the scumread I've had the entire day. With multiple PR claims at least one should get to do something at the very least, or scum get to spend a kill on a slot people scumread. Either or, I'm happy with letting Emp/HT survive today.

I know the experienced players aren't being fazed by the power role claims so maybe I'm overreaching to save them, but from everything I know about mafia, you don't vote out power role claims Day 1 right?

[OopsieDaisy]

I guess it is a very non-descript claim, how common is soft claiming a PR to survive as scum in forum mafia? Cause I'm used to a lot more VT claims and the like

[OopsieDaisy]

Yea thinking about it, I see all 3 as scummy.

The moment I offered the Erinys wagon up again, both Emperor and Hu Tao both jumped at the chance. Yes their life is on the life but that rubs me the wrong way.

Alongside Goofball clarififying that fake claims are a lot more common here, I'm gonna go back to Emperor.

Sorry for being indecisive I'm all over the place right now lmao.

UNVOTE: Erinys
VOTE: Emperor

[OopsieDaisy]

I think jumping at the chance when theyre both apparently pr's makes sense tbf

Yea I mean it makes sense but I'm just super uneasy right now and I'll be honest I've got no clue where to vote. But Towwl & I agreed on Emperor last night, logic checked out, the claim isn't as solid as Hu Tao's.

[OopsieDaisy]

The issue is according to Karma HPE also soft-claimed, which has changed my opinion again, but I don't remember seeing that post

[OopsieDaisy]

I think jumping at the chance when theyre both apparently pr's makes sense tbf

Yea I mean it makes sense but I'm just super uneasy right now and I'll be honest I've got no clue where to vote.

But Towwl & I agreed on Emperor last night,

logic checked out, the claim isn't as solid as Hu Tao's.

say what?

Last night irl time lmao, remember I said it was 3am and I needed to sleep

[OopsieDaisy]

The issue is according to Karma HPE also soft-claimed, which has changed my opinion again, but I don't remember seeing that post

why did you ask me where it was? I could be lying..

UNVOTE: Emperor

Wtf ok if the soft claim thing isn't trustworthy then

VOTE: Erinys

[OopsieDaisy]

Wait shit that's E-1

[OopsieDaisy]

UNVOTE: Erinys

[OopsieDaisy]

Wtf is going on I'm so confused

[OopsieDaisy]

I want to put Erinys on E-1 then, however I obvs wanna give space just in case. (cause El's said they will hammer anyone on E-1)

[OopsieDaisy]

daisy do you want HPE to claim as well

ideally yes, tho I'm aware we haven't got much time left at all

[OopsieDaisy]

I think I wanted HPE to claim except now I feel like emperor perceptions of his role at tidfferent times have too flat-out contradicted each other and maybe we should pummel him

Well tbf can't we just wait and see if there's an extra kill tonight then? I guess roleblocking exists tho ffs

[OopsieDaisy]

daisy who do you think is the most suspicious

In times like these where shit has hit the fan and everything is happening so fast, naturally I want to lean on the scumread I've built up over the entirety of D1 against the Bri/Erinys slot. Whether that's correct or not idk but that's where I'm leaning right now.

[OopsieDaisy]

Im leaning a HPE vote.

was going to go Emp because I thought HPE softclaimed a thing...but she didnt.

El said this already but HPE goes by it/its pronouns btw

[OopsieDaisy]

Yea in an ideal world I want an Emperor full claim and I want to hear Erinys' claim too. Issue is there's only a set amount of time remaining so there's no guarantee we get this info.

[OopsieDaisy]

well I think everyone here is town

I think scum would be sort of scared to immerse themselves in that quickfire environment

depends on the player but i can see your line of thinking.

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: Hu Tao

Want a fullclaim here now.

[OopsieDaisy]

hu tao's activity patterns indicate he wont fucking come back lmao

Well I'm not voting a claimed Rolecop or Vig soooo wcyd

[OopsieDaisy]

hu tao's activity patterns indicate he wont fucking come back lmao

Well I'm not voting a claimed Rolecop or Vig soooo wcyd

VOTE: Elements

Actually yea u right.

UNVOTE: Hu Tao
VOTE: Elements

[OopsieDaisy]

I don't think both HPE and HT are green PRs. Not sure if we resolve that with a vote today though

Yea it's better to wait until night action stuff has a possibility of happening.

[OopsieDaisy]

Yea if we end up not being able to drum up enough numbers for Elements I'm happy to settle on Hu Tao, the claim isn't as big as the other two and we'd need to join a wagon with numbers as we can't rely on absolutely everyone being online rn

[OopsieDaisy]

Yea Karma the thing is, Erinys hearing Hu Tao's claim as the counterwagon knows that that's very likely gonna force the claim out of itself. I think it's very understandable to get zoned in on HT because of what was likely to follow.

[OopsieDaisy]

still trying to find a reason to care about this game.
looking for inspiration.

i gloss over pages of words finding myself so bored of all the conversations i just don't care to follow

General Rules

1. Have fun. This is not an option. Games are only good when players are having fun. If you are not having fun, replace out. There is no shame in this. I have no problem with it. You are not a bad person. Both you and the game will be happier for it.

if you don't wanna play you don't have to

[OopsieDaisy]

which is totally not fair to everyone else in the game that has committed but just voicing where im at. hoping someone yells at me to get me motivated to do something or read someone or push something.

but also OIII firebringer there are two wagons right now. Hu Tao & Elements. We only have 2 more hours to pick and hammer a wagon before the timer runs out and we don't kill anyone. Lend us your wisdom :3

[OopsieDaisy]

kind of sus of u to assume i have any wisdom

don't worry I don't either I'm just hoping and praying we hit right at this point.

you said you think the claims are bollocks, does that mean you think HT is a smelly slot and should get booted out?

[OopsieDaisy]

ok i get your logic on the ht thing. what about elements then? they've not claimed but that's the wagon that we're attempting to start up right now.

[OopsieDaisy]

ok i get your logic on the ht thing. what about elements then? they've not claimed but that's the wagon that we're attempting to start up right now.

Elements is easier to read for me later in the game, i don't care about elements right now.

God I wish I had a point where I felt it was easier to read her sdl;gdslk

[OopsieDaisy]

oh hey firebringer i think the game you're on about is my first game lmao. you die day 3 and elements dies final 3

[OopsieDaisy]

Spoiler: badass tattoo

that is one badass tattoo

[OopsieDaisy]

also threatening to e-1 hu tao, i don't think the elements wagon is happening and i'm paranoid about time. i'd ask hu tao to claim but idk if they're even here lmao (if you are here plz full claim tho you're about to get bonked)

[OopsieDaisy]

Bearwolf

Gamefreak in 20 years trying desperately to find new ideas for pokemon: Fuck it, Bearwolf

[OopsieDaisy]

I can't hammer Hu Tao, I'm already on the wagon

In that case

UNVOTE: Elements
VOTE: Hu Tao

I can't see another player's wagon getting through in 2 hours unfortunately.

[OopsieDaisy]

We could have had a no elim day 1. u know how rare those are.
WHy u gotta ruin it Daisy

Because I like it when people do the flip it's exciting

[OopsieDaisy]

okay well im giving u no town points for hua scum flip here.
Obvious buss is obvious

Oh I absolutely don't deserve any town points for a HT scum flip, I was hard pushing for anything else other than a HT vote for a whileee without justifying any sort of townread on the slot outside of like, not liking the wagon itself sdgl;j;l

[OopsieDaisy]

im gonna award all the town points for hua scum flip to StD. And its not just because of his cool tattoo

Can we spare some for Tweet? She's been on the slot for a whileee

[OopsieDaisy]

O wait Elements was pushing Hu Tao from like mid day 1 lmao, this would be an interesting flip

[OopsieDaisy]

if he claims cop or some shit do we have enough to flash wagon onto hpe

why is hpe our flash wagon target? it creates a counterclaim but surely there's more motivation for a scum!HT who's about to get voted out anyways to counterclaim the cop and essentially take the cop with em

[OopsieDaisy]

weh

read this in wario's voice

[OopsieDaisy]

YOOO Elements was evil ok that feels good.

Karma is looking golden right now imo, that push felt like too much for a bus imo

[OopsieDaisy]

Also as an fyi, I'm flying to the Netherlands tomorrow (v exciting), so expect me to be mostly afk. Tho knowing me I won't be able to resist popping in at some point :3

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

First thought upon seeing who died

Yea I feel this. I also know Firebringer mentioned prolonging El's life but that was for meta reasons so ???

[OopsieDaisy]

My town core right now is {me, ckd, emperor, oopsie}. Leaning town on {gera, sheep}.

Going to iso {DGB, STD, Firebringer, Tweet} and see what I think

Yea I agree with like, all of this lol.

[OopsieDaisy]

In fact whilst I'm here

VOTE: Save The Dragons

I explained my reasonings yesterday for Elements flipping bad = STD looking bad too, gonna park my vote here for now.

[OopsieDaisy]

I will say out of the big town reads Towwl is my least town, but obvs is still very town to me. It's just I don't see a world where CKD was bussing and Emperor's vig claim looks rock solid, whereas the world where Towwl hard bussed is still technically possible, even if incredibly unlikely. Plus Towwl & I have been on the same page for a lot of this game and that's usually a good sign :3

[OopsieDaisy]

Covering the townleans, I believe Gera on their claim that they are easier to read later on in the game, with me having read 2300 and seen Gera in action. Alongside the fact that Gera kinda didn't really participate/contribute much yesterday, there simply isn't enough to read this slot on for Gera to be a worthwhile execution as the game is right now.

Sheep has simply been a decent player so far. I've been worried about letting him slip under the radar and have been scared to publicly townread him, but the fact he was on that Elements push right at the end of Day 1 counts for something, enough to not need to hyperfocus on this slot today.

With the other four town gone, that just leaves the four remaining players left. Currently STD/Firebringer are my two I'm very suspicious of due to their interactions with Elements yesterday, but obvs things can change. DGB I'm very interested to hear reads from since she seemed prepared for bussing on Day 1, so maybe she's gonna have more thoughts on what happened in those final few hours. Then there's Tweet, who iirc was simply zoned in on the Hu Tao execution for that end of day fiesta. Tweet is prolly the slot I do need to look into the most, but I'll do that when I properly have the time (and tbf, I imagine Towwl will beat me to the punch lol)

I think that's a good outline of my reads. People should know why I townread Emperor/CKD/Towwl already so didn't add that in here since I covered it in the last post.

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: HPE

if it wasnt for this vote i would have switched wagons

VOTE: DGB

VOTE: Elements!!!!! how dare u Element

u think elements wanted to buss DGB here. I think not

I've seen elements in an irl game bus both their mafia teammates shamelessly, it's absolutely possible for her to do that.

[OopsieDaisy]

Covering the townleans, I believe Gera on their claim that they are easier to read later on in the game, with me having read 2300 and seen Gera in action. Alongside the fact that Gera kinda didn't really participate/contribute much yesterday, there simply isn't enough to read this slot on for Gera to be a worthwhile execution as the game is right now.

Sheep has simply been a decent player so far. I've been worried about letting him slip under the radar and have been scared to publicly townread him, but the fact he was on that Elements push right at the end of Day 1 counts for something, enough to not need to hyperfocus on this slot today.

With the other four town gone, that just leaves the four remaining players left. Currently STD/Firebringer are my two I'm very suspicious of due to their interactions with Elements yesterday, but obvs things can change. DGB I'm very interested to hear reads from since she seemed prepared for bussing on Day 1, so maybe she's gonna have more thoughts on what happened in those final few hours. Then there's Tweet, who iirc was simply zoned in on the Hu Tao execution for that end of day fiesta. Tweet is prolly the slot I do need to look into the most, but I'll do that when I properly have the time (and tbf, I imagine Towwl will beat me to the punch lol)

I think that's a good outline of my reads. People should know why I townread Emperor/CKD/Towwl already so didn't add that in here since I covered it in the last post.

O and for those who want the tl:dr vertical readlist thing (from most townie to most scummy):

Emperor
CKD
Towwl

Gera/Sheep
Tweet/DGB

Firebringer
STD

[OopsieDaisy]

i guess scum could have wanted to kill erin on the off chance that vig shot erin too that means Emp gets flipped today as well....

that seems a little to high brain of a plan for scum to make though

well, unless someone as smart as you is pulling the strings :3

[OopsieDaisy]

Town

Emperor flippyNips
Towwl
Morning Tweet
OopsieDaisy
Hu Tao
DrippingGoofball
sheepsaysmeep

Save The Dragons
Merlyn
geraintm

curiouskarmadog
bristep123

Scum

Elevated chance of a buddy in the bolded names.

Fixed it for ya. I don't think there's a chance in hell of CKD evil, it's more that El will position herself to easily be able to hop onto a scum who's already sinking, and I think that scumzone is where I've highlighted.

[OopsieDaisy]

DEAD

bristep123HighPrincessErinys
Hu Tao
Elements

MASTER STRATEGISTS

curiouskarmadog
Save The Dragons
MerlynFirebringer
Morning Tweet
DrippingGoofball

???????????

geraintm
sheepsaysmeep
OopsieDaisy
Emperor flippyNips
towwl

I love how inverse this is to my reads lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

me

[OopsieDaisy]

oh hey i got it wahoo

[OopsieDaisy]

You could probablyt factor in that scum isn't sweating with the night actions, which i think probably implicates both gera and dragons to maybe a lesser extent

Despite what FB says he'd take scum seriously

And DGB more or less has the conviction to make me believe she doesnt kill HPE

I'd be careful reading into this too much. Ultimately this can all be WIFOM, especially since Firebringer and DGB are the ones heading that argument. And my trust there isn't big right now anyways.

[OopsieDaisy]

Karma is looking golden right now imo, that push felt like too much for a bus imo

caught this quote. That means I am dead tonight. Being on top of all the town charts does that. Well, Ill make the most of it.

If you die tonight, our vig lives another day. That's a win in my books.

[OopsieDaisy]

Karma is looking golden right now imo, that push felt like too much for a bus imo

caught this quote. That means I am dead tonight. Being on top of all the town charts does that. Well, Ill make the most of it.

If you die tonight, our vig lives another day. That's a win in my books.

I am curious...why post this? I understand the state of the game, why did you feel the need to say this?

Why not? I don't see why the post is unwarranted I thought you were genuinely scared of dying lol

[OopsieDaisy]

hey elements would u tell me if ur scum.
Can tell me in our secret pt no one knows about

HA, ha, ha

I claim deathproof cop with a n0 guilty on
Hu Tao
OopsieDaisy
and curiouskarmadog

these were my n0 cop checks
no where does it say ur innocent elements

I'll claim in our super secret chat then

aahahhaaha

What do we think of this? Elements and Firebringer feel like the kinds of players that would do this together as scum

I agree, I'm waiting to see if STD has anything to say once they're not busy but I am v scared of a Fire/El scumteam too.

[OopsieDaisy]

ALSO HU, if you are reading this in the dead thread.

your claim yesterday was an extremely poor play. We might have been able to go Elements yesterday if it wasnt for all the claims. Yours looked bad....I would have had no issue also hammering you yesterday.

moving on

OD

I recall you defending Elements pretty early after I caught him in that lie. Do you recall what games you Iso that led you

Sheep and Elements have made a lot of posts but I'm still yet to see anything that's pinged me towards town or scum for them. It should also be noted Elements is someone I've played with a lot and so I'm very aware their activity early game isn't really indicative of their alignment.

I asked you about your motivations. You lied.

My day 1 play is to get things to happen. If I say my motivation for doing X is to get things to happen it stops getting things to happen in the same way. So of course I lied, just so happened that this was a provable lie

As an fyi for people who want my opinion, this *kind of* checks out. Elements, like me, is someone who wants to push a proactive Day 1, often putting themselves on the line in order to create some form of activity. And you can't pressure someone into a reaction if you vocalise that intention as you vote them, because then they're fully aware of what you're doing.

Imagine if on my Bristar vote, instead of picking out an actual tangible reason to vote them, I just said nothing/an off-hand joke/outed the fact I wanted to see what they'd do if I voted em. Would we have seen the "glib" reaction then? Likely not.

On the other hand, yea El straight up lied about their thought process I can absolutely see why you wanna push this. Plus I think El is kinda scummy this game so far so I've no problem with them being a wagon. Just as someone who's played many games with El I don't find it ultra surprising like this is some out-of-character hand caught in the cookie jar moment. The biggest issue I have is El trying to manipulate me into preaching a stance that would benefit them with the activity thing :3

El has much more tangible things to be suspicious of, what with the open manipulation of me with the activity point and the lying about reads thing. But El is being an proactive player today poking/prodding/getting info from other players, and that's a great asset to have in our town.

there are more examples of how you say Elements was scummy, then defend him or write off their behavior.

The games that led me to these conclusions aren't forum games. They were irl games which weren't recorded or anything.

[OopsieDaisy]

Karma is looking golden right now imo, that push felt like too much for a bus imo

caught this quote. That means I am dead tonight. Being on top of all the town charts does that. Well, Ill make the most of it.

If you die tonight, our vig lives another day. That's a win in my books.

I am curious...why post this? I understand the state of the game, why did you feel the need to say this?

Why not? I don't see why the post is unwarranted I thought you were genuinely scared of dying lol

So you thought I was scared (who cares?)...as town, wouldnt you want scum to kill me over a vig. why bring attention to it? you could have leaned into it right? Like.."yeah I can see that".

I am sure scum arent stupid, but still.

I'm sorry for caring about people's feelings lmao. I don't think that hard about what I post I just post, and I don't think scum are stupid enough to leave Emperor alive another day.

[OopsieDaisy]

Do you think an Elements wagon would've gone through yesterday if I hadn't switched?

The reason I switched was to ensure we actually voted someone out. I supported the Elements wagon at multiple points throughout the day, a lot more than like anyone here bar you.

What makes Firebringer, someone who actively argued against the Elements wagon at the end of Day 1, or Tweet, someone who also refused to enter that wagon and stayed hard locked onto HT, any more townie than me in that scenario?

[OopsieDaisy]

sorry missed this post.

Do you think an Elements wagon would've gone through yesterday if I hadn't switched?

The reason I switched was to ensure we actually voted someone out. I supported the Elements wagon at multiple points throughout the day, a lot more than like anyone here bar you.

What makes Firebringer, someone who actively argued against the Elements wagon at the end of Day 1, or Tweet, someone who also refused to enter that wagon and stayed hard locked onto HT, any more townie than me in that scenario?

yes, I think it could have...or at least we will never know.

And scum frequently bus their partner (See my complaint about STD too) only to bail when it counted. you did that. the only reason I am not voting you RIGHT NOW, is because we were down to the wire.

and dont distract. I am not talking about Fire or Tweet. I am talking about you. Im also looking at them

what do you think is a better scum play...

scum who buses their partner, but finds a reason to get off when they can.

or scum who says their partner isnt scum.

Ok my plane is setting off now so I can't full respond, but I completely disagree with the wagon going through. Speak soon <3

[OopsieDaisy]

So, I feel like I need to quash this point right now. Karma, you say you think the wagon could've gone through. I pose you the question, who would've joined the Elements wagon at the end of Day 1?

That wagon pre-my switch had Towwl, Karma, Erinys, Sheep & I on it. Let's go through who wasn't on it and why I felt they wouldn't join the wagon.

Firebringer:

ok i get your logic on the ht thing. what about elements then? they've not claimed but that's the wagon that we're attempting to start up right now.

Elements is easier to read for me later in the game, i don't care about elements right now.

That's a no.

Save The Dragons:

i think i want to do VOTE: hu tao

Made this post when the Elements wagon was at its peak. Was clearly more interested in Hu Tao, wasn't likely to join.

DGB:

Did Hu Tao claim and run?

Vote stays, with prejudice.

DGB give me some motivation to care about this game right now

It's hard when Hu Tao is allowed to remain.

I agree that Elements isn't looking good.

Believed Elements wasn't looking good, but seemed very set on Hu Tao. Alongside this she wasn't active during those final couple hours, so I couldn't assume she'd even be there to vote. Unlikely switch.

Tweet:

VOTE: Hu Tao

Not letting this go

This one is self-explanatory, no switch.

Emperor:

Voted Elements on 651, but switched to Erinys on 704. Last post was the vig claim on 785. Would have probably switched if active at the time, but there was no guarantee that Emperor would be there 100 posts later, so this was tentative in my mind.

Gera:

popping in, not going to change my vote, you all work out which sacrifical lamb you prefer.
but today is a gret example of why day 1s suck

Voted DGB on post 489, and came in during the wagon flipping to say they wouldn't flip their vote to anyone else. Not switching.

Hu Tao:

VOTE: Erinys

I like this more

This was their last post, way before the wagon chaos. There was no sign that Hu Tao was reading the thread, especially since we were asking for a fullclaim and they weren't responding. Couldn't rely on to switch.

Elements:

Do I even need to explain why Elements wouldn't vote themselves?

These are all the people who were off the wagon, and the only person who was a realistic hope to join us was Emperor. Once Tweet, STD & Firebringer all stated they preferred Hu Tao/didn't want Elements to die, it was clear the wagon wasn't happening so I switched to make sure we would get a flip. My decision is a townie decision, not a scummy decision, and this is why.

[OopsieDaisy]

I don’t really want to kill daisy tho. Like literally the only reason element was on my radar

Then don't. The only person who scumreads me here right now is Karma afaik, and imo I just knocked down their biggest point as to why I'm scum.

[OopsieDaisy]

I don’t really want to kill daisy tho. Like literally the only reason element was on my radar

Then don't. The only person who scumreads me here right now is Karma afaik, and imo I just knocked down their biggest point as to why I'm scum.

well you didnt...literally half of those people, would have flipped if needed.

look, as I said..You defended Elements a lot in the same post you said he was scummy. During a time that we were Hu (TOWN)(5) vs Element (SCUM)(5) you switched away from someone you kept saying was scummy.

like I said, you DO have in your favor we were down to the wire. But the above facts I am not forgetting.

First of all El goes by she/they pronouns.

Secondly I was showing you those quotes to illustrate my point of view at the time. You can see, through those players' reactions to the Elements wagon (or lack thereof) why I made the decision I did. Additionally my switch was informed from when previously in the day I had switched off of Bristar and onto Elements in order to push a wagon there, and frankly no one but you was interested. Idk how much more transparent I can possibly be, you can see my thought process very clearly throughout this game.

And yes thirdly I did defend Elements on the meta side of things, because I do believe that her lie wasn't particularly indicative of her alignment. I still believe that. You keep screaming for evidence and yet as I keep telling you my reads on her are based on non-forum games so I can't give you any games to go and read. I scumread Elements because she tried to manipulate me into taking a hard stance on activity so I would have to townread her + her flip (as has proven) was gonna be juicy info-wise.

[OopsieDaisy]

what do you mean why am i lost

i sr Hu tao and was wrong
i sr HPE and was wrong
i tr elements and was wrong
i tr every other slot pretty much so i'm wrong

I think CKD wants us to 1v1 lol

[OopsieDaisy]

I'd rather my town core did not 1v1

LMAO dw I'm not gonna

[OopsieDaisy]

fuck it.

UNVOTE: Save The Dragons
VOTE: Firebringer

we ball.

[OopsieDaisy]

i think the elements/firebringer interactions were spooky, the defence of elements at the end of the day from firebringer was spooky, and i think fire is enjoying the openwolfing a spooky amount.

std's slot clearly isn't worth pressuring right now and fire's been begging for a push so i'm giving it to him :3

pedit: ok that's a plausible explanation for the chilling that's cringe i was trying to start a badass push on you

pedit 2: wait how is dgb townlocked what did i miss reading that slot lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

plus ngl does anyone have a single reason to townread the firebringer slot i've got nothing bar that i enjoy talking to em :3

[OopsieDaisy]

i was trying to start a badass push on you

You can still do it. I believe in you

errr fuckin errrr firebringer implies arson, which is considered a violent action. mafia kill people in the night, which is also considered a violent action. coincidence?????

[OopsieDaisy]

Lots of noise this page grumble grumble

It's all part of my big brain strat to make my scumreads comfy so they'll tell me all their secrets. Or well, maybe idk but I managed to use this to get some reads out of a disinterested firebringer yesterday so that's something.

[OopsieDaisy]

And yes thirdly I did defend Elements on the meta side of things, because I do believe that her lie wasn't particularly indicative of her alignment. I still believe that. You keep screaming for evidence and yet as I keep telling you my reads on her are based on non-forum games so I can't give you any games to go and read. I scumread Elements because she tried to manipulate me into taking a hard stance on activity so I would have to townread her + her flip (as has proven) was gonna be juicy info-wise.

"screaming for evidence"? Have I asked you for that since you told me it was irl?

Me specifically no but you kept pestering Elements for a game iirc.

Like yea I am blowing up a bit because I thought we had something good going on

To see someone who I'm so sure is town coming at me for what I feel is an incredibly understandable decision just sucks. Especially when you're applying that read with such pressure.

[OopsieDaisy]

what do you think is a better scum play...

scum who buses their partner, but finds a reason to get off when they can.

or scum who says their partner isnt scum.

also to answer this, the better play is obvs the former, but the way more common play is the latter.

[OopsieDaisy]

i think the elements/firebringer interactions were spooky, the defence of elements at the end of the day from firebringer was spooky, and i think fire is enjoying the openwolfing a spooky amount.

std's slot clearly isn't worth pressuring right now and fire's been begging for a push so i'm giving it to him :3

WHY is the STD slot not worth pressuring?

this reminds me of what you were saying about elements yesterday.

holding it to you today. WHY is it not worth pressuring?

also

VOTE: STD

because STD is deflated, disinterested with the game, and doesn't have any strong reads right now. it's actually the same logic i used to move

onto

the elements wagon when i moved off of bristar for the first time, because bristar similarly wasn't giving out reads and was playing incredibly passive under pressure.

[OopsieDaisy]

but I dont see you doing anything particularly towny right now. find some scum and we can talk.

hang on a minute, according to emperor i'm the one that convinced em to shoot el?? i found scum already lol.

[OopsieDaisy]

maybe he is deflated because he knows he looks scummy as hell and doesnt have a defense.

so he is checked out.

yea exactly. i would like to have as many players checked in to the game as possible, and by moving my vote as an act of good faith, i'm wanting to give std the room to check back in to the game.

for the record i still find em incredibly scummy it's just that i don't think we're gonna get much more info out of std's slot if we just keep chucking votes at it. at least if std says more and then we decide to vote em at the end of the day, it tells us more about the game.

[OopsieDaisy]

you think Fire would be a decent slot to pressure?

out of everyone here, that would produce the least.

now if you said Gera...I would be listening....but you didnt.

firebringer's my biggest sus read outside of StD and yet no one was voting there, why not throw a bit of pressure there if you're in my shoes?

[OopsieDaisy]

you think Fire would be a decent slot to pressure?

out of everyone here, that would produce the least.

now if you said Gera...I would be listening....but you didnt.

firebringer's my biggest sus read outside of StD and yet no one was voting there, why not throw a bit of pressure there if you're in my shoes?

dont worry oops i approve of ur pressure

thanks <3

anyways woah timezones i flew to a new place and now it's 4am uh oh i shouldn't be awake. hope everyone enjoyed karma & i's discussions today lol

[OopsieDaisy]

I'm interested to hear if Karma & I's discussion has progressed the read on me for anyone? I hope it wasn't all for nothing lol.

[OopsieDaisy]

elements still has that "big scum energy" coming into the game but i think they've mellowed out a bit. im still kind of confused as to whether this is AI based on previous experience.

i think the making up reads to get discussion going is pretty out there for scum. i feel scum would be more careful and not try to draw attention to themselves by blatantly lying about reads. i know this sounds counterintuitive but i don't think elements is caught in a lie, i think they did a goofy play because they feel comfortable. apart from the "big scum energy" elements does seem rather relaxed. i don't know how comfortable they are playing scum though.

i'm not super keen on wagoning elements now as i think they'll become clearer in time and there's other slots i feel are far worse, like Merlyn/FB, hu tao, and bristep. maybe efn too.

Fun fact I did not know StD spent some time yesterday pushing for a Merlyn/FB elim. Inch resting, cause they're my two top scum reads. Obvs bussing is a thing but StD spent a lot of time protecting Elements yesterday so if they are both scum he'd be interacting with his partners in super different ways. Tho I say bussing, StD never even voted there despite the sus read so maybe it doesn't mean much.

[OopsieDaisy]

I am on mobile and haven't seen the vote count, but I want to vote STD.

Currently there's 3 on STD: Towwl, Tweet & Karma

[OopsieDaisy]

O and it's 6 to hammer so there's room on the wagon for ya

[OopsieDaisy]

and then Ooops votes for Hu Toa again.

and then HPE comes in with the hammer.

so, it was the STD and Oops votes on Hu Toa that look worse.
and i am giving Sheep a green colour too.

What makes Tweet's vote there look better than mine or StD's?

[OopsieDaisy]

Do you think the rest of the scumteam lies between people who switched votes during that end of day scramble?

[OopsieDaisy]

i hope you appreciate the effort i am putting in and know i am town

i do

[OopsieDaisy]

Who said they were still thinking about goofball?

i still kinda want to vote for dripping goofball

It was Gera but I think that's changed now.

[OopsieDaisy]

I think I’m cool with getting std today

Is there anyone in the game who isn't?

I'm wanting to pressure elsewhere but I still read him as scummy and if things stay the same I'll vote him at the end of the day.

[OopsieDaisy]

Karma look what you've done people's reads on me are starting to get fucked up

[OopsieDaisy]

Oopsie have you found anything you'd like to share about Morning Tweet?

Nothing in particular, I just think people who have started to push me (Karma/Gera) are/were glossing over her positioning at the end of Day 1 to focus on me and me no likey that.

Like from my point of view it's StD/Firebringer/Tweet who look bad out of those who were active during that time, with Tweet being the most town out of those three for me based on how I'm reading her play outside of that specific instance (this is ignoring myself cause i'm just talking about my thought process here).

I'm also not sold that the rest of the scumteam were all active last hourers pushing the vote to and fro, but obvs as someone in that end of day scramble sussy group that seems to be forming, I'm gonna think that.

Also Karma hi quick question, how do you go about reading slots that are less active? Like would you want to eliminate everyone who was pushing away from Elements at the end of Day 1 before you thought about the inactive slots or have you got a different game plan for it?

[OopsieDaisy]

I'm also not sold that the rest of the scumteam were all active last hourers pushing the vote to and fro, but obvs as someone in that end of day scramble sussy group that seems to be forming, I'm gonna think that.

Amending this because I've had another think. I'm pretty sure my scumteam is between StD/Firebringer/Tweet/DGB. The former 3 for their actions at the end of Day 1, and DGB for being a passive neutral party who could easily be on a team with any of em. I suppose Gera/Sheep also fit this bill but I like them and am leaning town on em. I think we just need to find one or two more townies in this pool and the game is solved via process of elimination (if we find two in there then elimming me isn't even a problem which would be very poggers).

[OopsieDaisy]

but DGB is town

if I didn't have a lot of paranoia about a you/DGB scumteam I'd love to accept this

[OopsieDaisy]

but DGB is town

if I didn't have a lot of paranoia about a you/DGB scumteam I'd love to accept this

The good news is if StD does flip scum I don't have to worry about this world anymore (at least i think, 4 scum in 13 would be nuts right?), so at least I'm gonna get something out of the flip.

[OopsieDaisy]

If everyone kinda wants to kill StD, at this point is it fair to ask for a claim?

[OopsieDaisy]

ehhh will hammer in an hour

why not wait for a claim, this isn't an any% speedrun and StD might have some information to give us before he gets bonked

[OopsieDaisy]

i don't think whatever StD claims will change my opinion and if he had any info he probably would have outted already.

I agree with the first bit but disagree with the second.

[OopsieDaisy]

its okay to have incorrect opinions oops, i still enjoy you

i enjoy you too, even if you are probably scum :3

[OopsieDaisy]

we are in no rush, there is no harm in waiting for a claim...

You can always unvote to make sure Firebringer doesn't hammer if you wanna wait too

[OopsieDaisy]

I'm gonna look so shit if StD flips evil lol

[OopsieDaisy]

Well, tbf there are counterarguments actually but today I've been one of the very few people who have wanted to pressure elsewhere.

[OopsieDaisy]

I'm also concerned about a possible STD/Elements pairing. STD's vote onto Bristar just as I switch onto the Elements wagon seemed like he was trying to take pressure off of the Elements slot, and now the naked votes from both of them flying onto Hu Tao is also ringing alarm bells.

So why does that stink to you?

Because from what I know about large normal 243, Hu Tao was wrongly voted out when they were town and so when I see them similarly getting pushed here I'm worried about another misvote on the slot based on what is just them making reads that don't make much sense to us.

Alongside this I scumread you and STD has strong associations with you through voting. Seeing you both on the wagon worries me too.

This is my counterargument (I'd have had to be setting up a double bus if El and StD are on a team together with me)

[OopsieDaisy]

That claim was basically what I was anticipating as the worst case scenario

How so?

[OopsieDaisy]

Ok yea I think I see your logic. StD's alignment will become indicative from what happens tonight anyways (well, either that or our vig survives), so why waste our vote on em right now when we could vote another one of our suspicions. I've got a strong x to doubt on there being two separate mafia doctors so either StD is telling the truth and is town, or is bsing and scum.

The issue is I'm not sure if I believe it, the claim is mighty convenient.

[OopsieDaisy]

so either StD is telling the truth and is town, or is bsing and scum.

tee hee...

you just described EVERY claim.

Hu Tao lied and was town in this very game lol

[OopsieDaisy]

STD is playing quite scummy,

he (with OD) led us off the scum wagon to kill town.

his claim is WAY to convenient.

I understand towwl's logic, but until I see a wagon that makes MORE sense. I am staying.

If you agree with Towwl's logic, why not wagon me?

[OopsieDaisy]

he (with OD) led us off the scum wagon to kill town.

also disputing this claim. firebringer and tweet both also contributed towards weakening the elements wagon in that same sequence of play. firebringer with the elements defence and tweet by hopping onto the hu tao wagon as that disucssion was happening. to point us two out whilst ignoring the others doesn't make sense to me.

[OopsieDaisy]

he (with OD) led us off the scum wagon to kill town.

also disputing this claim. firebringer and tweet both also contributed towards weakening the elements wagon in that same sequence of play. firebringer with the elements defence and tweet by hopping onto the hu tao wagon as that disucssion was happening. to point us two out whilst ignoring the others doesn't make sense to me.

look we are about ready to talk in circles. you know the pivotal point I am referencing.

yea i do, but you've acknowledged that the rest of my play is townie. i don't see what the harm is in considering the alternative wagons rather than just deciding you don't like my slot based on one decision made in the heat of the moment which i have a strong justification for.