Micro 1084 | Quantum Mafia | Game Over

[Ircher]

VOTE: imaginality
OMGUS

[Ircher]

I think we should try to put bugspray into the box and see what happens.

Wait. This is Quantum Mafia. So maybe the box is like Schrödinger's cat, where they put the cat in the box, give it a 50/50 chance of being poisoned, and it's simultaneously dead and alive until they open the box back up and then it's one or the other.
I wonder how that would translate into a mafia game.

Maybe flips don't happen until someone peeks into the box?

[Ircher]

I think we should try to put bugspray into the box and see what happens.

Wait. This is Quantum Mafia. So maybe the box is like Schrödinger's cat, where they put the cat in the box, give it a 50/50 chance of being poisoned, and it's simultaneously dead and alive until they open the box back up and then it's one or the other.
I wonder how that would translate into a mafia game.

^
Sorry if I just butchered quantum physics, I'm not a scientist.

Is that my new record for fastest mainslip?

Do you like one n or two n's better?

[Ircher]

Spam posting is good. It will get the game going.

[Ircher]

We don't even know if voting mafia to be put in the box will help town lol

We don't even know if voting mafia to be put in the box will help town lol

We don't even know whether a scum exist here lol

Frankly unless there's strong evidence of the contrary it's probably best to just assume there is

So if we can spot a player here playing like a jester, we may assume 'putting mafia in the box doesn't help town'?

This would assume the "Mafia" have knowledge of the mechanics, and that's not necessarily true.

It's not necessarily true that mafia know more, but by being the informed minority, they have access to more information, so it's possible they know something the rest of us don't.

[Ircher]

I don't like that the votes are with post numbers so i want to test something for the next VC.

VOTE: Merlyn
VOTE: Ircher

Why don't you like it? That's a pretty common thing for mods to do.

I'm a very paranoid person, and bugspray in previous games hasn't used post numbers in VC's (i checked)

Day phases last for 168 hours (seven earth spinnies). During this time all players must vote on who to put into the box.

And i'll note that the above doesn't actually say that the deadline passes when we put X people into the box

Isn't qm camille the co-mod (i.e., not bugspray)? Maybe they are just using an automated tool that does the post linking for them to simplify things.

[Ircher]

Sample Role PMs have been made public. Additional information about the box has been made public.

Oh this is interesting. Do we learn more about the setup as we correctly guess stuff?

[Ircher]

Sample PMs:

Town Role PM

Welcome to Quantum Mafia You are a

Quantum Townie

.

You have no active abilities.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

Reality feels unstable.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Scum Role PM

Welcome to Quantum Mafia You are a

Quantum Goon

You have

a partner

. Each night, you and your partner can collectively choose one player to put in a box. You must choose

which of you will put

that player in the box. You also share a factional Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when all Quantum Townies are

dead

.

Reality feels unstable.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Bolded something out. I think I could reach some conclusions that:

• Only 2 mafias exist
  
• Which of the mafia to make the move matters. Probably it has relationship with the numbers?
  
• Dead != in the box. So could I guess the box is may be something similar as being doused in the forest fire (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Forest_Fire )setup + added to a neighborhood + some unknown effect?

1) Is a fair assumption in most micros
2) Also seems standard if we consider "put in the box" a variation on a factional kill.

[Ircher]

Heating up the discussion and try to push things away from rvs.

There are 2 real votes on you, you realize that yeah?

Fishing some gms out of the mafia's mouth (if mafia know more machanics than we do)

So your just basically admitting to being scum, and having more information aren't you?

Because you no longer have the excuse of there being no Sample PM's, so there would be no reason to assume this.

No, this is a poor argument. Just because the sample role pms don't tell anything new doesn't mean mafia don't have access to other information they could accidentally leak.

[Ircher]

I don't agree with the votes on heipizhu. I'd like to explore
VOTE: Doctor Drew instead.

[Ircher]

No, it's way too early for claims.

[Ircher]

Anyone else just wanna wing this and play it like a regular game of Mafia until the mechanics screws us over?

Lol, I do kinda vibe with this.

What I would like to see is the kind doctor following through with this.

[Ircher]

Anyone else just wanna wing this and play it like a regular game of Mafia until the mechanics screws us over?

Lol, I do kinda vibe with this.

This is probably a good approach.
The Quantum Goon PM says mafia can put people into a box, so I don't imagine being put in there is anything good. We can probably just vote like normal.

But....

What's in the box?!?(In my best Brad Pitt voice)

Uhhh...cyanide, probably.

Ugh.

You are the worst Alainnna

Pre Edit: I get that Alaina, but.....scum is less likely to lolHammer, they are more likely to to be worried about a buddy being at E-1 though....

Merlyn, why didn't you announce they were at E-1 when you voted them, did you not realize the VC at that point?

I am a little worried on how you are trying to mostly paint a bunch of associatives aroud heip. Those are not great at the start of D1, and apparently you have already found heip+bianco

and

heip+Merlyn assocs

I agree Drew's theories are sketchy.
That means he's town, right?

No?

[Ircher]

Anyone else just wanna wing this and play it like a regular game of Mafia until the mechanics screws us over?

Lol, I do kinda vibe with this.

This is probably a good approach.
The Quantum Goon PM says mafia can put people into a box, so I don't imagine being put in there is anything good. We can probably just vote like normal.

But....

What's in the box?!?(In my best Brad Pitt voice)

Uhhh...cyanide, probably.

Ugh.

You are the worst Alainnna

Pre Edit: I get that Alaina, but.....scum is less likely to lolHammer, they are more likely to to be worried about a buddy being at E-1 though....

Merlyn, why didn't you announce they were at E-1 when you voted them, did you not realize the VC at that point?

I am a little worried on how you are trying to mostly paint a bunch of associatives aroud heip. Those are not great at the start of D1, and apparently you have already found heip+bianco

and

heip+Merlyn assocs

I find Heip the most scummy at this point, I am just asking questions about those acting around them.

Unfortunately it does revolve around two people I always scum read at some point as well lol.

I get that you are scum reading heipizhu4, but why are you essentially pre-flipping heipizhu as scum? I'm seeing no evidence that you actually attempted to engage with heipizhu. Instead, you're operating from the assumption that heipizhu is scum which could very well be wrong, and you don't seem concerned about the potential to be wrong here.

[Ircher]

Or... Maybe it's just how he writes....

[Ircher]

P-edit re: 189: Why so? I don't recall thinking that.

I thought when you said I was defensive, I thought you meant that I was getting defensive saying I wasn't lurking. Like, you impugn my honor sir! What did you mean then?

I thought you looked like you were paranoid about getting scumread and jumping to defend yourself against anything that you think might be an accusation.

What, that early? I'm new but I'm not that new.

Heip, are you new to mafia?

Why do you have to be making good posts now?

I don't see anything that really changed from Merlyn, so this strikes me as odd. From the posts you quoted, the first one is merely a defensive post doesn't say much at all, and the second is a question with an obvious answer if you've been paying attentionnto what heipizhu4 has been saying.

[Ircher]

Probably get myself too eager to reply to posts without thinking. Anyway, here goes the reply to your questions on me.

Anyone else just wanna wing this and play it like a regular game of Mafia until the mechanics screws us over?

Lol, I do kinda vibe with this.

What I would like to see is the kind doctor following through with this.

I mainly plan on it, especially since overall trying to mech talk through a bastard game is pretty foolish.

Also heip, are you Demona?

Nope,

(or I will be accused by the admins of using secret alt accounts lol)

Atfer reading her iso of the demon mafia, I have a feeling she has a similar playstyle with me, that is,
a) Be keen on early game setup research
b) Actively posting half-screen walls
c) And rather poor at defending?

UNVOTE:

on't be throwing shade for 'low post count'

That's why neutral, isn't it?

The neutral part is fine, it was the shade you wrote after that irked me

I don't like this whole, I have sus on myself thing... Like what?

What I mean by considering myself scummy is that looking at myself's ISO, and spectate myself, I don't consider me playing towny. Really. So I mean the voters on me may not be scums trying to push me off and have their reasons and I ACCEPT.

What have you done that you, when re-reading your posts, don't consider playing towny?

Hmmm, probably I should apologize for my bad wording skills. What I mean here is that your posts before 45 is kind of 'prod dodge' and I expected a town posting something related to the setup discussion while you are online. Anyway, considering your meta (which refers to a short poster), so I'm fine with that.

And about viewing myself as somehow scummy at that point, somehow, I couldn't recall exactly why I thought about it. Probably I kind of panicked when all of you were pressuring me (who's a newbie that have only completed 2 games) . Sometimes, I have a bad habit of taking most of the accusations on me and thought 'emmm, I did made scumtell and yes, you're right' because I am quite poor at wording and have trouble picking the correct word (eg: the 'sacrifice') so that should be the case.

I'ma be honest, i also agree with Drew that this feels like a Heip/Bianco game.

That's probably way too easy, but that's what it feels like.

Alas, that is too easy

Unluckily, I can say, it is not. Tbh, i don't think a Scum!heipizhu would try to perform like my earth spinny d1 lol.

heipizhu4 mentions he is new in this post.

[Ircher]

There is no sample pm.
We have completely no idea how many scums are there

We don't even know whether a scum exist here lol

It's a mix of this stuff here is the reason i thought that i'm concerned with Heip.

Scum would be more worried about sample PM's it feels like, because town at least have a PM that is usable for claiming and whatnot, it's the scum that would potentially be more concerned of not having a sample PM.

Then the "no idea how many scum there is" this seems really weird, especially followed slightly after with "we don't know if they exist" there is no reason to think that we would be in a game with no scum.

This all adds up to me thinking that this is Scum.

Do you still feel this way?

[Ircher]

but I figured they were an alt

This can be esaily proven false. Check my account, and the only game I have played in is Newbie 2124 a month ago, where alt's are not allowed.

This has already come up, and Merlyn even realized they were wrong.

Are you trying to push an agenda or something....?

Why are you assigning motive here when there is probably none to assign? People tend to read chronologically.

[Ircher]

There is no sample pm.
We have completely no idea how many scums are there

We don't even know whether a scum exist here lol

It's a mix of this stuff here is the reason i thought that i'm concerned with Heip.

Scum would be more worried about sample PM's it feels like, because town at least have a PM that is usable for claiming and whatnot, it's the scum that would potentially be more concerned of not having a sample PM.

Then the "no idea how many scum there is" this seems really weird, especially followed slightly after with "we don't know if they exist" there is no reason to think that we would be in a game with no scum.

This all adds up to me thinking that this is Scum.

Do you still feel this way?

It feels like a decent chance to be Newb-Scum in my opinion, especially given the later interactions with the slot.

Most newer players behave this way regardless of alignment. I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

[Ircher]

and how am i wrongly pushing you by explaining why i had first voted you over 100 posts later?

Because it's a scumplay to do inaccurate quotes. I have previously mentioned that agreed with some of your accusations on me, but I can't really say I like this one. You seem to be underestimating the power of the information, or why the mod would say the reviewers would take a moral duty upon themselves to tell as many people as possible so that they do not sign up for the game?

I'm not sure I followed this 100%. Which inaccurate quotes are you referring to here?

[Ircher]

Most newer players behave this way regardless of alignment. I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

Specifically what behavior are you defending?

1. Self-conscious behavior such as mentioning he is new a lot, saying he would scum read his own posts, being a bit defensive to pressure, etc.
2. Some of the setup speccing stuff as well like thinking there might not be any scum. I don't think that's an unreasonable take in a game that sets the expectation upfront it is going to be weird when you've only played a handful of games.

[Ircher]

There is no sample pm.
We have completely no idea how many scums are there

We don't even know whether a scum exist here lol

It's a mix of this stuff here is the reason i thought that i'm concerned with Heip.

Scum would be more worried about sample PM's it feels like, because town at least have a PM that is usable for claiming and whatnot, it's the scum that would potentially be more concerned of not having a sample PM.

Then the "no idea how many scum there is" this seems really weird, especially followed slightly after with "we don't know if they exist" there is no reason to think that we would be in a game with no scum.

This all adds up to me thinking that this is Scum.

Do you still feel this way?

It feels like a decent chance to be Newb-Scum in my opinion, especially given the later interactions with the slot.

Most newer players behave this way regardless of alignment. I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

Ircher, you seem to be going out of your way to defend Heip against any real heat. Major or minor.

I'm not really "defending" heipizhu. I'm just pointing out there's a plausible alternative explanations, and everyone shouldn't be so quick to jump the gun against the newer player.

[Ircher]

I never really was scum reading Heip to hard, just an early vibe vote to see where it goes........and then

Jesus

Ircher took the wheel.

Oh, I see, so you are suggesting WK'ing.

You don't like Merlyn and Ircher for uncompatible reasons that both depend on heip's flip, namely 141 and 249 (and also me, as per 90 and 180 but I digress). Seem like you should be interested in seeing his flip

I don't think this is how people do reads. While strategically, it might make sense to focus on the common thread, most people want to chase their actual scum reads.

[Ircher]

Drew, you think Ircher is scummy bc of they way they defended heip, yes? The implication being that they're sticking their neck out for their scumbuddy. But you say you think it's me and Ircher together as scum. So how does that add up?

I don't really think this is an issue. Drew scum reads you and me independently of each other. That doesn't mean we're scum together, but rather, we're Drew's two strongest reads. Trying to form associative reads on Day 1 is a fool's errand.

[Ircher]

OK, start reviewing the whole d1 for now:
page1: Mostly greeting stuff, with aliana started discussing the gm
page2: Bianco put up some deeper exploration, me bumping my observation, start with 46 jason, bianco and aliana discuss the box, which eventually lead to part of revealing in the op
page3: Lots of experiments conducted jason, bianco, aliana and me. I mentioned the bracket, and it got closed successfully.

page4: We made it to page 4 with a discussion of sample pm.

Actually, you know what i want to ask this, does everyone have Reality feels unstable in their role PM?

I do

+1. But why we don't have a sample pm?

Moderator error.

We started playing a normal mafia from here. 84 and 86 is where I got 2 naked votes from doctor and jason. I didn't really like their post in page 3, like:

Spoiler:

Mine is real.

And i will point this out, pondering aloud may actually help the town as a whole, given that we were given the single box answer publicly by pondering about the box.

Bianco, why so worried about votes on heip(thank you for the shorthand suggestion lol).

I couldn't be sure if it's a way for Town!drew to get things out of rvs (as he mentioned in 251), or just a wierd way scum!drew tried to interact with his partner jason, or simply trying to push me.
And @drew: And are you serious about scumreading bianco and me at that time or is this simply a joke?

Please don't tell me this as easy as just Bianco/heip.

And p4 ends with ceej popped up and encouraged us to play normal mafia.

Page5 start with something I like about Jason (101) Nice question, though no reply from the mod. Then Jason had a quick realtime interaction with me, arguing about several things. I'm not quite good at doing argues, especially in real-time situations. Looking back, I DID look sussy in some minior details, but jason and drew had something too, so are they pushing a bit too hard? Bianco has also voted for me (113)
Ircher stated to do some defence on me, and looks fine on me.
The weirdest post on p5 is merlyn's 123. The first sentence is fine, and the second one?felt somehow overly defensive.

More will come out tomorrow.

Hi heipizhu, I don't think you ever answered my question earlier about 232.

and how am i wrongly pushing you by explaining why i had first voted you over 100 posts later?

Because it's a scumplay to do inaccurate quotes. I have previously mentioned that agreed with some of your accusations on me, but I can't really say I like this one. You seem to be underestimating the power of the information, or why the mod would say the reviewers would take a moral duty upon themselves to tell as many people as possible so that they do not sign up for the game?

I'm not sure I followed this 100%. Which inaccurate quotes are you referring to here?

[Ircher]

Also, did you not have any analysis for the first three or so pages? Mechanical stuff can be harder to read, but there's usually something to gleam there too.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Merlyn
.
I get a vibe of looking for reasons to cast suspicion rather than genuine trying to sort.

ah, the patented "voting Merlyn for vibes" vote that's happened so much in this game.

No, I think that was a good vote based on your previous post.

[Ircher]

No, I don't think we can vote. We're supposed to "talk amongst [ourselves]" now.

[Ircher]

I'm more of the mind that this is a setup where we learn more as the game progresses. Why else would the mod feel compelled to give us each a thread rather than just using normal role pms?

[Ircher]

Also happy birthday Ircher!

Sorry you are scum.

No, I

was

scum. Not anymore.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Drew

[Ircher]

So big claim here, make sure you read each part of it.

Claim: i WAS scum with Ircher, meaning each of us has 2 states, Quantum Townie and Quantum Mafia, this is actually eluded to in flip of Merlyn.

Note: The Mafia team absolutely don't have access to any additional information.

Suspicion: This means that it is very likely that CJ is scum right now, Merlyn was number 1, so i suspect that the movement of roles is either +/- 1 meaning CJ would be scum in every case.

However, this doesn't always help us, we don't know that putting him in the box keeps his alignment the same and Aliana's flip might change the alignment.

Note: The Mafia team boxing is also not compulsive, so it might be worth it for whoever the Mafia team is to not actually box someone at night, as your likely to alignment change again.

Plan: Box CJ, Mafia team should avoid using the box mechanic, observe if the Alignment's change affects people in the box.

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

The numbers probably do matter, but I'm not sure it's +/- 1. It's more likely the box people play a role in how it works.

[Ircher]

So big claim here, make sure you read each part of it.

Claim: i WAS scum with Ircher, meaning each of us has 2 states, Quantum Townie and Quantum Mafia, this is actually eluded to in flip of Merlyn.

Note: The Mafia team absolutely don't have access to any additional information.

Suspicion: This means that it is very likely that CJ is scum right now, Merlyn was number 1, so i suspect that the movement of roles is either +/- 1 meaning CJ would be scum in every case.

However, this doesn't always help us, we don't know that putting him in the box keeps his alignment the same and Aliana's flip might change the alignment.

Note: The Mafia team boxing is also not compulsive, so it might be worth it for whoever the Mafia team is to not actually box someone at night, as your likely to alignment change again.

Plan: Box CJ, Mafia team should avoid using the box mechanic, observe if the Alignment's change affects people in the box.

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

I refuse to play along with this. That "Suspicion" makes the game too easy and predictable too. Where did you even get the movement of roles stuff anyway?

Why don't we vote Ircher first anyway? There's no guarantee that his state has changed. Mine certainly has not.

VOTE: Ircher

This sounds like caught scum.
VOTE: ceejayvinoya

[Ircher]

So big claim here, make sure you read each part of it.

Claim: i WAS scum with Ircher, meaning each of us has 2 states, Quantum Townie and Quantum Mafia, this is actually eluded to in flip of Merlyn.

Note: The Mafia team absolutely don't have access to any additional information.

Suspicion: This means that it is very likely that CJ is scum right now, Merlyn was number 1, so i suspect that the movement of roles is either +/- 1 meaning CJ would be scum in every case.

However, this doesn't always help us, we don't know that putting him in the box keeps his alignment the same and Aliana's flip might change the alignment.

Note: The Mafia team boxing is also not compulsive, so it might be worth it for whoever the Mafia team is to not actually box someone at night, as your likely to alignment change again.

Plan: Box CJ, Mafia team should avoid using the box mechanic, observe if the Alignment's change affects people in the box.

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

I refuse to play along with this. That "Suspicion" makes the game too easy and predictable too. Where did you even get the movement of roles stuff anyway?

Why don't we vote Ircher first anyway? There's no guarantee that his state has changed. Mine certainly has not.

VOTE: Ircher

Do you realize how shitty the game would be if one scum changes and the other doesn't?

To be fair, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities. bugs did give us the disclaimer.

[Ircher]

I guess I should say that my vote is E-1.

[Ircher]

OK. Another big claim after jason's post
Jason has been telling the truth. The current scum is imagine and I, and we have put no one in the box.
Jason's hypotheses of the +/-1 is wrong. My only guess for day3 scum is bianco and doctor, who haven't been the scum in the previous days.

Shouldn't you have waited for your alignment to actually change?

[Ircher]

Is it the same thread or different? Can you see what I wrote previously?

[Ircher]

VOTE: JasonWazza

[Ircher]

Based on the mod's warning, I've come up with a theory which seems plausible to me:

Point 1:
The "mafia PT" in the night phase is a neighborhood with a vig shot, members randomly rotating (or perhaps via some sequence, not sure).
True alignment is something hidden, not just if you're in the PT or not.

Point 2: the real scum can do something in the morning phase and I suspect they choose who flips, whenever there are two in the box.

Conclusion: this means we can scum hunt as normal. But have to be cautious in the PT as if a true-scum is in there they would be trying to get us to target town.

This seems doubtful.

[Ircher]

I actually think it's more that something we do each morning decides who is the Scum team for the next day.

Meaning that if we were to avoid said action, there may end up being 0 scum, and we all win together potentially (as no more threats exist).

That said this Morning mechanic is kind of hard to work off based on 1 data point.

I think this is closer, but it's not necessarily us who decides but rather the people in the box.

[Ircher]

Then what if no one is in the box?

There's a predetermined fallback mechanism.

[Ircher]

pagetop

[Ircher]

Wait, we didn't get a flip?

[Ircher]

Well, we should probably box someone then if that's the only way to get flips.

[Ircher]

Also, I was scum Day 3, so I think that throws the +/- 3 positions theory out the window.

[Ircher]

We boxed heipizhu4 because we felt like it. There was no substantial reason for it.

[Ircher]

I'll add that I was playing towards my current win con at the time (rather than a future win con), and there was no reason for us not to box someone with that innmind.

[Ircher]

VOTE: imaginality

[Ircher]

It's imaginality/Jason today. They knew they could eliminate me because I decided to play to my current win con last night rather than a nebulous future win condition. Drew has been tunneled on me all game, so I'm disregarding his vote.

[Ircher]

I'm predicting it'll be biancospino/imaginality tomorrow, so eliminate one of them, preferably biancospino.