Micro 1091 - Prism v. 1L Year [Game Over]

[Meuh]

Spoiler:

Your annoyance at cakez and his vote was the thing that scared me a little bit on him because I can see him doing the overtly scummy thing as scum b/c he just doesn't care. However I've committed myself to shielding him for today, even if it makes me look foolish.

Also I think ydrasse is significantly scummier than cakez and I don't think they're ever a team so I'd want to flip her before him always. But that's just my opinion.

catboi I want to say is town but I'm worried he may be trying to pocket me so idk. Wouldn't vote rn but definitely not safe town

look i'm just trying to save you from being misyeeted for once in your career

ok well I appreciate you if you're town here <3
but if you're scum

I think GL accusing Cakez of chainsawing me is moving into "hard to fathom as being the real belief of a town player" territory. It's enough in the territory that I would be okay with voting him today, because his arguments have gotten continually worse, and look more like he's trying to "score points" with every attack rather than attempting to discern a perspective or actually investigate alignments. (I think even if he's town the way he's playing right is outright anti-town, not because he's reading me wrong but because of him tunneling in a single-minded fashion where everything someone does only adds further fuel to the fire. I think if allowed to live he will harm the town regardless of his alignment. That's simply how I've come to view this type of play. I've been guilty of it many times in the past (no pun intended), and part of the reason I've been playing restrained this game is to try to curb that tendency. I think he absolutely should not be allowed leadership/agency in this game).

Luke is simply mad I dared to suspect him. He is probably town and gets resolved mechanically either way. I wish he would not play so emotionally, but at his core he's still the same newbie I flew off the handle at for deathtunneling me a couple years ago.

I think Ydrasse's contributions to the game have overall been minimal to non-existant. Her main reads have been to defend elle for getting flustered, and OMGUSing Cakez. The elle read is not really logical because scum get flustered all the time, and instead comes across as white-knighting a player who was an early push. The Cakez read is entirely reactive and can easily be scum motivated. Beyond that, she shaded me for suggesting I'd be okay voting elle, and then shaded luke for calling her town. This is all play that is merely reacting to major events going on in the thread and responding to them, it takes very little effort. It doesn't feel investigative, like she's actually parsing the game and trying to figure anything out - rather she's simply commenting on big things or things that mention her. I think she is actively procrastinating on contributing to the thread and this is more likely to come from scum who is struggling to manufacture content.

I think the reasons that have been given for her being town are not very good. Guiltylion is suggesting her feeling concerned about the thread vibes being against her is a towntell. I think this is not convincing because it's ultimately a "vibe-based" read that is related t attitude, and that thing can be faked, or maybe she was just legitimately feeling threatened. Dunn says she is more charismatic as mafia early - again, this is a vibe-based read that is really not convincing. Luke is town reading her because she made a joke on page 1 and because she is defending his slot. I think this is obviously terrible reasoning n face value. Early game gutreads are not very likely to be accurate, and townreading someone simply for defending you means you are highly likely to fall into a pocket. Scum defend players who otherwise look to be uncontested wagons all the time. I think he is biased because he disliked being run up so quickly upon entering the game (which to be fair is an entirely understandable response), and so has latched on to anyone he saw as being protective of him.

That's my reasoning for Ydrasse being scum, it could be wrong, I don't think my read accuracy is particularly special. I would still prefer to flip her or GL if I'm voted out today.

---

It's very hard for me to explain how I'm reading pooky but I simply get the feel he is being genuine every time he posts, the way he spoke about me felt unrestrained and like it was coming from a town perspective. Similarly, Bell getting irritated with Cakez for the E-1 thing felt real and he keeps making his contributions that are slightly snarky but insightful. I buy what he's doing as town motivated

Meuh slightly less confident on but nothing she's posted has felt like t was not from a genuine perspective to me, and I still lean on the miller claim as being +town.

Dunn I had more as potential scum for POE reasons and some fear he may have been buddying me, but historically I'm not great at reading him. I thought there was simply a chance he was being overlooked.

As for Cakez, I wish I had an answer for why he felt like voting me before writing this post but I still felt like the response he had to pressure was towny in terms of how he was seemingly challenging people about voting him. I am also historically not great at reading him so my confidence level is not high, but that is the best I can manage. I think if Ydrasse flips mafia he is basically always town and should be treated as an innocent child.

I guess as a pure spitball guess GL/Cakez isn't impossible, at least off the top of my head

catboi the reason I was/am considering voting you is because your reaction to the recent pressure on you has felt off tonally, it feels like way more concerned with the votes then I feel like you'd normally respond as town. I mean just look at the last two pages - I feel like that claim was really dramatic and unprompted and it doesn't feel organic.

As for me "not actively trying to sort you" - you weren't here, dude. What are you expecting me to do when you're not posting in the game? Why do you think I didn't just vote you? I mean, probably because I'm still trying to sort you?

Now, GL gets a pass for this because he doesn't know my scumgame and is making the common fallacy that me lacking energy is a scumtell. But you - you've seen my scumgame. Do you think I, at any time as scum, come across as dispassionate? As lacking the will to put conviction behind a push?

like these are just gut feels really but this kinda felt like scum indignance at being pushed for something he thinks is NAI

Not primarily real time, more of a "wait and see" player. You were absent for a day and the most relevant stuff was seeing how you would respond to luke and what you'd do after that. I certainly don't feel like me voting you would have helped anything and I had nothing in particular I wanted to ask you.

I dunno, you're free to choose to not believe me if you want. I'm not that worried because I don't think I'll actually go over today. If you actually want to figure out if my read is genuine, ask me questions about it?

here's another example, this is one of those vibes where i can't really describe it that well, but like stuff like "you're free to choose not to believe me if you want" feels like such a weird thing to say from a catboi town PoV where he has indicated some suspicion of GL already

EBWOP - had one quote twice

but this is tough because I don't think catboi/GL make any sense as scum together and I also find things independently scummy from GL

but this is tough because I don't think catboi/GL make any sense as scum together and I also find things independently scummy from GL

How is that tough? Just kill the one you suspect more of being scum individually.

its tough because i find them independently scummy but them not being SvS means even if I'm right there's still another scum out there and I just keep going through the playerlist and being like who tf is scum this game

we have:
pooky and meuh the miller claims
luke who claimed pr
ydra who im really stuck with and keep going back and forth on
dunn who I think is playing like town here
and then you and honestly I don't know what to think about you this game Bell but I wouldn't vote you today

catboi the reason I was/am considering voting you is because your reaction to the recent pressure on you has felt off tonally, it feels like way more concerned with the votes then I feel like you'd normally respond as town. I mean just look at the last two pages - I feel like that claim was really dramatic and unprompted and it doesn't feel organic.

this is very par for the course

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Preliminary reads based off what I've read so far:
Meuh — Probably town for claim; I don't think she would fakeclaim something like that
Pooky — Probably also town for claim
Dunn — I like their analysis, so maybe town
Luke — Null; I thought his predecessor was nullish and I haven't really caught up to when he starts posting
Bell — Null; Seems pretty chill, not sure what to make of it as I tend to associate town!Bell with being somewhat aggressive
GL — I've liked his early posts, so maybe nulltown?
Ydra — I feel like from her interactions with Cakez, they feel unaligned
Cakez — I tend to SR him because he usually feels scummy to me; I'm going to try to avoid confbiasing myself this time

Does GL/Ydra make sense?? Is that a thing?

Well, I guess

if

Bell is town, that could be possible. And unless I've just been bamboozled and you/Ydra actually is a possible team, then it's likely either you/GL or Ydra/GL.
However, I had liked GL's early game, so I'm still uncertain rn between him and Bell. (I've felt that Bell has been appearing progressively towny in their ISO.)

Unhelpfully, I think I just tend to lean into TRing GL's posting style, so I probably won't vote for him today.
I'll reaccess Cakez/Ydra, just in case.

Unhelpfully, I think I just tend to lean into TRing GL's posting style, so I probably won't vote for him today.
I'll reaccess Cakez/Ydra, just in case.

As in Cakez/Ydra as a team, in case my preliminary read on them being unaligned was wrong.

TBH, what Luke said about Cakez being opportunistic was similar to something I had contemplated last night.
I'm just unsure if it's because he was trying to look out for an easy mislim or he genuinely SRed catboi and was willing to compromise on a non-GL wagon.

The thing is though, Cakez didn't really seem to express an SR on catboi until a wagon was becoming viable.

Maybe, I'm overthinking this but I would probably go for Cakez over Ydra rn.

You know what, maybe I should put my vote where my mouth is.
VOTE: Cakez

The thing is though, Cakez didn't really seem to express an SR on catboi until a wagon was becoming viable.

well obviously because catboi didn't become scummy until a wagon formed on him

actually no Bell is on me ofc lol so E-1

I thought you were on E-2?
Bell's voting Ydra, I'm pretty sure.

Though, Ydra was interested in voting you.

actually no Bell is on me ofc lol so E-1

I thought you were on E-2?
Bell's voting Ydra, I'm pretty sure.

oh, i didn't see the shift

Though, Ydra was interested in voting you.

yeah this is the dilemma catboi ended up in where he only had two votes I think but enough people were like "i'd vote him" that he felt a lot more pressure than that. or so he claimed at least.

yeah this is the dilemma catboi ended up in where he only had two votes I think but enough people were like "i'd vote him" that he felt a lot more pressure than that. or so he claimed at least.

I guess this is true.

sircakez and i being the two main wagons both on gl is very funny

That's the thing that's making me question if scum!you would rather choose to go for GL, who's unlikely to get limmed over putting Cakez on E-1 to save yourself.

VOTE: meuh
I don't think there are two millers this game. Stuff isn't adding up.

VOTE: Cakez
I don't like how he immediately went for Meuh.

Why do people object to my Meuh vote

Basically what Meuh has said.
Especially when you seemed perfectly fine with Meuh until today.
Like what happened to your read on GL?

Has anyone mentioned the mysterious disappearance of Cakez' GL scumread?

I've brought it up.

BTW, what do you make of Cakez's claim that he's a PR?

TBH after Dunn claims, we should get Cakez to claim what PR he exactly is.

VOTE: rh9
our work here is done

Cakez, do you still think Meuh is scum?

I'm in co-op Baldur's gate, hence my terseness

I thought it strange that RH9 went straight to Beholder before I could claim my role

Cakez (I think?) was asking for plausible scum roles that would target Doc.
Beholder was one of them.

I find it really hard to believe that RH9 was reaction testing

idk something about RH9 being SO honest about his VT slip almost makes me think it actually was town?? Like this is some shit I'd pull after forgetting half my role or something and slipping. I just don't even know what to make of this.

RH9 who do you think is scum?

At the beginning of this day, I thought it was Cakez but with his claim, I'm starting to get why he went after Meuh.
Because, honestly now it does feel a bit weird that there's no Cop but two Miller claims.
Feels like something doesn't add up. As it means assuming all claims are truthful, there's 4 VTs, 2 Named Townies (in that the Millers effectively serve as this without a Cop), a 2-shot Tracker, a 1-shot Doc and a 1-shot Roleblocker.
I'm thinking I need to re-evaluate the Miller claims rn.
Because those no longer feel as towny as they did before Cakez claimed. (Assuming Cakez is telling the truth.)
That said, I should probably UNVOTE: Cakez while I think about things.

So really, I think scum are in Pooky/Meuh/Cakez.

Dunn I agree the three of us are town. That means probably one scum in the two VT claims and one in the millers. I currently think Meuh and going back and forth on RH9 and GL.

also his approach is not as townie as the other two

As in after the massclaim?
Because, you could be right on this.
The way Cakez has interacted with claims does feel townier than Dunn's.
(Though, I could biased in that I feel like if all PR claims are town, that means Mafia's basically hoping Luke wastes his last track on the PR claims. And that'd have to mean scum are doing pretty well at not getting any attention.)

I agree Luke's claim has to be town at this point because there's not enough town power otherwise

I'm thinking either

1) Cakez just trueclaimed his role as a scum RB
or
2) Dunn is some kind of scum investigative that targeted Luke

what's extra wonk is that neither Cakez nor Dunn see any issue with eachother's claims

I think at least to Dunn's credit he is just coming off kind of obtuse whereas Cakez pivoted from "scum in the PRs" to just immediately accepting Dunn's claim - feels like he may be strategically positioning and not wanting to make an enemy out of Dunn

This is a good point.
Dunn has been consistently been saying 'PRs are Town' (for reasons which I still don't agree with) but Cakez has only really been 'scum in RH9/GL' but he went from 'scum in Meuh/Dunn/Luke' to 'scum prob just Meuh' (given he seems to be TRing Pooky).
Eh. Maybe this really is a scum!Cakez world, after all.
Though, if Cakez is scum, then I'm stuck on who's his partner other than maybe the Miller claims.

I think rn I'm at one of Cakez/GL is scum along with one of the Millers.
P-edit: Maybe it could be GL/Dunn.

Eh.
Now I think about it, Cakez only makes sense as scum with Pooky.

I think we should eliminate in the Miller or VT claims today

If both scum are in the PR/Miller claims then that would make both GL and RH9 town and I find that very hard to believe lol

I kind of think we just yeet GuiltyLion here I believe in all my PRs

I guess this is OK with me.

what do you mean you guess? the alternative is you lol

Because there's still wagons on you/Dunn?
And chances are it's going to be between me/you/GL.

If you think that then it's weird that you are suspecting me after I got tracked to Lukewarm

I think you trueclaimed.
Your play makes only real sense if you really were 1-shot.

I can't tell if you are calling me town here, but if you are I feel like you were speculating that I may have been mafia earlier

Well. I felt like you could be scum, due to the fact that Cakez barely makes sense as scum with half of everybody but like you and Pooky.
And Pooky hasn't felt like scum to me, so reasonably this limits scum to you/GL/Cakez/Meuh.
However, I have been thinking that Cakez can actually be Town and I've been mindmelding with Meuh, leaving the scumpool to you/GL.
On the other hand, your play if town, makes more sense coming from a world where you trueclaimed than one where you're playing elaborate mindgames like Luke has been suggesting.

I'd vote any of GL/RH9/Meuh

RH9 buddy can you let me know how you got from

So really, I think scum are in Pooky/Meuh/Cakez.

to

I kind of think we just yeet GuiltyLion here I believe in all my PRs

I guess this is OK with me.

My read on Cakez changed.
And GL moved back into my PoE, as I realised I had no reason to leave him out of it.

Yeah I'm down to yeet RH9 slot. I think I'm still voting there too?

VOTE: meuh whatever i feel like this is the best shot of hitting scum rn
GL vs RH9 feels like a coinflip
Pooky has read very town to me for pretty much the whole game
And then I've already talked about why I think Luke and Dunn are town

My main takeaway from looking at these interactions is Cakez being town tbh, more than any takeaway about being paired with RH9
This is possibly paired I guess? I think RH9's treatment of Ydra/Cakez looks kind of unpaired with Cakez though. The interactions there don't fit it and RH9's positioning makes more sense as scum not caring about who gets limmed than scum paired with Cakez, I'd say. There's also little bits here and there that look unpaired (RH9 being unsure if it was Cakez or someone else who asked him something, Catboi replying to Cakez with a bunch of game links) that add up in my eyes.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

How was Wicked Lukewarm

[Meuh]

I bet it was

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Wicked

[Dunnstral]

Does the fact that all of [GL, Dunn, Cakez] have voiced a meuh preference, when given a fairly even choice between Meuh and RH, mean that going for RH first the correct choice?

Because from my pov, that means either:
-pooky is scum,
- RH+Meuh is then scum team, so order does not matter, or
-a member of the scum team just choose Meuh when they could have taken RH (and could have framed it as having liked my case, and wanting to work with the Mechanically Town Player )

Well I switched to Meuh and for a while the thread was dead silent until I asked if there was interest.

I think individually Meuh's reaction makes them pretty likely to be mafia. She starts by being really quiet while Rh9 is being run up for elimination. When Pooky responds they post but have nothing to say. When prodded further they say they are upset that Rh9 is being eliminated and shows where they were 'mind melding.'

Now seemingly out of nowhere, when pressure has shifted to Meuh, and it is looking like the elim is either Rh9 slot or Meuh, they suddenly scumread Rh9 slot and point back to their iso to do so.

To me this feels very opportunistic and looks like town Rh9 with mafia Meuh based on her actions.

[Meuh]

Now seemingly out of nowhere, when pressure has shifted to Meuh, and it is looking like the elim is either Rh9 slot or Meuh, they suddenly scumread Rh9 slot and point back to their iso to do so.

Did you want me to stare into the void and say "this is why RH9 is scum" instead of looking at his ISO

[Dunnstral]

I think your read on RH9 changing is motivated by self preservation rather than reevaluation.

You first went to their iso to quote where you were mind melding, and then only later stated that when you did so you started scumreading them.

[Dunnstral]

I do think 1073 is a weird perspective to have if you are a VT. I get that you will say that it slipped your mind but how?

I do think 1073 is a weird perspective to have if you are a VT. I get that you will say that it slipped your mind but how?

I said 2 VTs as a reaction test to see if scum would take the bait and treat it as a slip, which seemed to have happened.
I feel like it might've gotten a bit out of hand, though.

If I were mafia with RH9 I'd like to believe that this exchange wouldn't have happened.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'll be honest I have no idea if I can let this RH9 slot live after he decided to slip, make shit up, then cosplay as a parrot for two days and when asked a basic question about progression just made up a non answer and then immediately ghosted the thread.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it pains me because I feel they're all so scummy but at least some of them have to be town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

and alisae coming in and doing nothing is pretty lol too

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i dunno we just need to get one elimination right here and I'm thinking maybe it's just RH9 slot but I don't want to deal with the crippling anxiety of self doubt if I'm wrong so I'm punting this shit to Lukewarm like its a hot potato

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

let's go luke

[Meuh]

I think your read on RH9 changing is motivated by self preservation rather than reevaluation.

You first went to their iso to quote where you were mind melding, and then only later stated that when you did so you started scumreading them.

Okay but why is that my process here if scum?
This would be logical if when I quoted those posts yesterday, I was sitting comfortable, not likely to be limmed... and then suddenly there was a massive push on me!!!!!
I would then opportunistically push for RH9 being scum to save myself!!!! How evil!!!! How nefarious!!!!!
But that's not what happened? I already had a bunch of votes at that point, the reason for me to push RH9 was already there
Why would I, as scum, be there yesterday and not push RH9, and then today be like "hmm I will invent a scumread here, because I'm definitely more incentivised to do this now than I was before"
Or is your point literally just "omg Meuh had a thought she didn't post???? fake!!!!" did you just see something vaguely odd to poke at and then poked at it? Or do you have an actual reason to think this is scummy in the slightest

[Meuh]

My thoughts simmer and develop! These ideas develop even when I'm not actively posting! When I take a walk, when I take a shower, when I'm bored in class!

[Meuh]

I do think 1073 is a weird perspective to have if you are a VT. I get that you will say that it slipped your mind but how?

I do think 1073 is a weird perspective to have if you are a VT. I get that you will say that it slipped your mind but how?

I said 2 VTs as a reaction test to see if scum would take the bait and treat it as a slip, which seemed to have happened.
I feel like it might've gotten a bit out of hand, though.

If I were mafia with RH9 I'd like to believe that this exchange wouldn't have happened.

Why? What about this is unpaired

[Dunnstral]

Well there's an hour between those two posts. If we were mafia together I'd like to think we'd be talking with each other after their 2 vt slip and come up with something better than 1097, which is in response to my post and looks bad for them.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

"i cant be scum with him because our theatre looks like shit" is certainly a take

[Lukewarm]

How was Wicked Lukewarm

It was SO GOOD!

I had family come in from out of town to go see it, and it was a all around great time.

Would recommend.

[Lukewarm]

it pains me because I feel they're all so scummy but at least some of them have to be town

Mood.

I was steadily talking myself into a RH+Cakez scum team, and then Meuh decided to scum post some more. Which makes it really hard.

[Lukewarm]

Well I switched to Meuh and for a while the thread was dead silent until I asked if there was interest.

The thing that I was seeing in particular, was cakez progression on it.

He was agreeable to the RH wagon when it was building up steam (both 1089 and 1292), but easy to back off of the idea when thread focus shifted else where (1112 and 1330).

Like he wanted to look good any time the RH wagon seemed inevitable, but also happy to see a possibility for him to make it through the day.

Even after you voted Meuh (1303), Cakez did not switch over until after both me (1327) and pooky (1328) both voiced support for the Meuh wagon, and that was when cakez was suddenly switching to your Meuh wagon, AND arguing that that be the wagon that goes through (1330).

That Me->Pooky->

Hamilton Video

-> Cakez sequence of posts felt more like he was responding to the apparent Meuh elim support, then actually having a reason to suddenly think that Meuh is definitavely a better wagon then RH.

Spoiler: that series of posts

RH9 and Meuh are currently the only 2 I would be interested in.

same

VOTE: meuh whatever i feel like this is the best shot of hitting scum rn
GL vs RH9 feels like a coinflip

[Lukewarm]

I'd vote any of GL/RH9/Meuh

And its like, just before this conviction in the Meuh > RH posting, he had them as even.

I am not understanding how cakez got from here, to arguing that Meuh is the definitively better elim.

[Lukewarm]

Meuh's newfound RH scum read does give me the heebiejeebies tho.

But on the other hand, I went through the exact same progression myself.

Arguing that RH seemed town based on his takes this game -> re-reading his iso -> realizing that all of his "takes" were him agreeing with things other people had been saying.

[Meuh]

To be fair, you voicing that read did help me see it in my own reflections, it's not like I got there entirely on my own.
Though I suppose the angle of "oh shit, the mindmeld was just a symptom of the way RH9 approached the game and actually isn't very meaningful" and the shift I had regarding that is more unique to me

[Lukewarm]

I think your read on RH9 changing is motivated by self preservation rather than reevaluation.

You first went to their iso to quote where you were mind melding, and then only later stated that when you did so you started scumreading them.

Okay but why is that my process here if scum?
This would be logical if when I quoted those posts yesterday, I was sitting comfortable, not likely to be limmed... and then suddenly there was a massive push on me!!!!!
I would then opportunistically push for RH9 being scum to save myself!!!! How evil!!!! How nefarious!!!!!
But that's not what happened? I already had a bunch of votes at that point, the reason for me to push RH9 was already there
Why would I, as scum, be there yesterday and not push RH9, and then today be like "hmm I will invent a scumread here, because I'm definitely more incentivised to do this now than I was before"
Or is your point literally just "omg Meuh had a thought she didn't post???? fake!!!!" did you just see something vaguely odd to poke at and then poked at it? Or do you have an actual reason to think this is scummy in the slightest

During your back and forth with Dunn, were you purposefully ignoring the fact that scum!you would absolutely benefit from developing a scum read of RH in this position?

Or that scum!you could have found it advantageous to call RH town yesterday while watching the elim happen anyways (seeing as how Pooky commented on considering dropping a hammer) in order to be The Person Who Was Right later down the line?

[Meuh]

Wait wtf I thought I was already being wagoned by that point yesterday, it shifted to me really quickly damn