Mini Normal 2316 | Halloween | Endgame

[Thestatusquo]

hi

[Thestatusquo]

Is there anything super cool and exciting in the first 14 pages or is it just fluff?

I'm gunna read it anyway but you can make me do so with a sense of sadness and resignation if you'd like.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm on page 8 and I think wartortle is scum for a few reasons.

1) He seems to be very concerned about presence and thread control. He keeps popping up with these rapid fire takes that don't really go anywhere. He's trying to fake the care free spewing thoughts playstyle of unconcerned town but if you dig to the bottom of these takes theres nothing there; no follow through, nothing. We don't see him pushing for his preferred narrative we just see takes. Takes and takes and takes.

2) I think he's playing up the whole "I'm new here" to a pretty comical degree and I think its a lie. I don't know whose alt this is but its definitely an alt.

the deadlines are 10 days long

i'm used to 10 minute long deadlines bro i don't got the attention span for this

god i don't like day start. it's just useless crap, like bro i want a detective to get a guilty on a busboy, i want a freeloader to cc cop and get condemned, i want a marksman to shoot a claimed seer. i don't want none of this "vanilla townie" crap

the question itself that's made in 71 will never lead to anything productive, it depends if wiz has the ability as town to recognize this

I don't get it, it's easier to read people with similar playstyles as you so how is 71 unproductive

uhh maybe. i'll defer to your judgement because i'm not a huge forum mafia dude

Give me a break, dude. You know what you're doing. You know forum mafia. Cut the crap.

This doesn't make tortle scum on their own but they're just very obviously lying about this. Read the rest of their posts.

VOTE: Wartortle

[Thestatusquo]

Oh god now I have to scum read black.

[Thestatusquo]

hey girl hey

[Thestatusquo]

Oh god now I have to scum read black.

Catch me if you can

Aren't you the one trying to catch in this gif? Much to think about.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm always town.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm sure those were all just honest mistakes from the mods.

[Thestatusquo]

Ah jeez, it’s like a whole new game with all these replacements—nice to see you though, Black.

Is there some reason you don't want the game state to change?

[Thestatusquo]

I would love the game state to change, considering I’m on the chopping block—just means I have to now consider two player’s playstyles in one single spot, multiple times. Greater mental load for a bit.

Are you on the chopping block? I only read up to page 8 so that must have happened after.

What changed from page 8 until now to make you feel this way?

[Thestatusquo]

Also I like that response. I feel like scum!animated probably doesn't make that response to me. It's too on the nose.

[Thestatusquo]

Doesn't enchant primarily post nonsense about everything?

[Thestatusquo]

I can't see myself voting Wartortle today. I don't think coming in from ten minute live mafia and having to adjust to forum but still having know how is that farfetched. Plus, townreading Annie here isn't a good play for him to make if he's scum.

ok but I also just said I thought annie was townie so you seem to be lacking a little internal consistency in your thoughts here.

[Thestatusquo]

one might say you're not...holding steady?

[Thestatusquo]

your butt.

[Thestatusquo]

I can't see myself voting Wartortle today. I don't think coming in from ten minute live mafia and having to adjust to forum but still having know how is that farfetched. Plus, townreading Annie here isn't a good play for him to make if he's scum.

ok but I also just said I thought annie was townie so you seem to be lacking a little internal consistency in your thoughts here.

More suspicion on Annie directly benefits scum Wartortle because Annie is pushing on Wartortle. So, suffice to say I don't think if Wartortle was scum here he'd be reading Annie as town.

and in that world I benefit as scum from calling annie town how exactly?

[Thestatusquo]

I'm on page 8 and I think wartortle is scum for a few reasons.

1) He seems to be very concerned about presence and thread control. He keeps popping up with these rapid fire takes that don't really go anywhere. He's trying to fake the care free spewing thoughts playstyle of unconcerned town but if you dig to the bottom of these takes theres nothing there; no follow through, nothing. We don't see him pushing for his preferred narrative we just see takes. Takes and takes and takes.

2) I think he's playing up the whole "I'm new here" to a pretty comical degree and I think its a lie. I don't know whose alt this is but its definitely an alt.

the deadlines are 10 days long

i'm used to 10 minute long deadlines bro i don't got the attention span for this

god i don't like day start. it's just useless crap, like bro i want a detective to get a guilty on a busboy, i want a freeloader to cc cop and get condemned, i want a marksman to shoot a claimed seer. i don't want none of this "vanilla townie" crap

the question itself that's made in 71 will never lead to anything productive, it depends if wiz has the ability as town to recognize this

I don't get it, it's easier to read people with similar playstyles as you so how is 71 unproductive

uhh maybe. i'll defer to your judgement because i'm not a huge forum mafia dude

Give me a break, dude. You know what you're doing. You know forum mafia. Cut the crap.

This doesn't make tortle scum on their own but they're just very obviously lying about this. Read the rest of their posts.

VOTE: Wartortle

do you really want me to link my MU account that i haven’t played on in years

no I want you to stop lying about not being an alt of a MS user

[Thestatusquo]

I like the posts that Black has made so far. The logic seems consistent and she’s putting in effort to figure people out.

Thestatusquo’s push on Wartortle because they think he’s lying about playing forum mafia feels weird.

And I wish that Enchant would dial down the trolling by like 20% lol

That is not the only thing I said about Wartortle. Nor was it the most important.

[Thestatusquo]

I like the posts that Black has made so far. The logic seems consistent and she’s putting in effort to figure people out.

Thestatusquo’s push on Wartortle because they think he’s lying about playing forum mafia feels weird.

And I wish that Enchant would dial down the trolling by like 20% lol

That is not the only thing I said about Wartortle. Nor was it the most important.

You said that he has a lot of takes that seem to go nowhere but you’ve spent more time talking about his his experience level, so I thought you cared more about that

This doesn't seem like the post of someone who is actually interested in evaluating my thoughts. Like ok maybe you missed it or maybe you thought that the only thing that matters is 'what someone talks about the most.' Which is kind of Bizarre way to play Mafia to begin with, but you still don't engage with that thought in any way in this post.

Like if you were interested in evaluating my positions why would you post this sort of weird defense of yourself rather than actually talk about the argument I made?

This post just seems extremely self conscious.

[Thestatusquo]

I like the posts that Black has made so far. The logic seems consistent and she’s putting in effort to figure people out.

Thestatusquo’s push on Wartortle because they think he’s lying about playing forum mafia feels weird.

And I wish that Enchant would dial down the trolling by like 20% lol

That is not the only thing I said about Wartortle. Nor was it the most important.

You said that he has a lot of takes that seem to go nowhere but you’ve spent more time talking about his his experience level, so I thought you cared more about that

This doesn't seem like the post of someone who is actually interested in evaluating my thoughts. Like ok maybe you missed it or maybe you thought that the only thing that matters is 'what someone talks about the most.' Which is kind of Bizarre way to play Mafia to begin with, but you still don't engage with that thought in any way in this post.

Like if you were interested in evaluating my positions why would you post this sort of weird defense of yourself rather than actually talk about the argument I made?

This post just seems extremely self conscious.

"This feels weird" was the evaluation. You're saying stuff like "cut the crap" to him and accusing him of lying, so why would I not think that you thought his experience level was an important point? You haven't spent any time grilling him on his "endless takes" to try and find out what he believes. I don't see how anything that I said was self-conscious.

Even this post fails to actually engage with my argument about how he seems to lack follow through so I'm gonna just continue to ask what you think about it until you actually answer?

[Thestatusquo]

Does it seem to you like he's actually trying to make the lims he wants happen?

[Thestatusquo]

For someone who claims to be really used to one hour deadlines he sure doesn't seem super interested in making anything happen quickly and is mostly content to sit back and let things drift.

[Thestatusquo]

I think black is town but I am noticing a lack of sharpness pointed at me in particular which is my only nagging doubt there right now.

[Thestatusquo]

could just be because I'm right about stuff.

[Thestatusquo]

I think black is town but I am noticing a lack of sharpness pointed at me in particular which is my only nagging doubt there right now.

Sharpness?

like this post.

[Thestatusquo]

I think I've kind of been able to put my finger on why I tend to scum read black too and that's cool.

I think tonally she asks all these extremely pointed questions. The questions themselves aren't always pointed but they have a tonal resonance to me of 'I think you're a baddy' which is in and of itself kind of pointed and so when she's interacting with people (including me) it frequently feels like she's scum reading them and then those interactions go nowhere because she likes to jump around and poke her nose into everything so that tone and lack of followup always kind of feels opportunistic to me.

But I think I'm figuring out that this is just a false positive.

This is what I mean Black. Granted, I was scum when I said this but it was still a true observation on my part.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really like the way blackstar is interacting with the game.

[Thestatusquo]

Generally in my mind sheeping is proxying your opinion to another on some matter.

[Thestatusquo]

I think I mostly have a bunch of people I don't want to lim and then a group of people I don't care about.

[Thestatusquo]

Which is fine for now.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't want to lim:
SmileyDude1
AnimatedWiz
Enchant
Black
TheHoldSteady

[Thestatusquo]

I don't want to lim:
SmileyDude1
AnimatedWiz
Enchant
Black
TheHoldSteady

Why Smiley?

vibes and black magic mostly.

[Thestatusquo]

kinda want to lim usesPython for that fucking spamfest.

[Thestatusquo]

Sorry, I had trouble connecting to the site the last couple days. I had caught up when it was 15 pages and I'm just going to give my thoughts from there. As of now I'll be playing in the present and just catch up over the night phase.

Smiley: Seemed odd early on but I agreed with a lot of his posts. 210 and 353 are posts I especially liked and thought were townie.

Hu Tao: A lot of nothing for awhile, but I think that's townie for her judging by past experience. Which maybe sounds mean and I don't intend to mean it that way, but I've seen them be very active/proactive as scum and I don't think their attitude matches their scum games so far.

Naerys: I don't agree with most of the reasoning she's given for her reads. 152 is the only post I kinda like, but even then she only null reads Star later on, which is just off to me. I hate the Wartortle and Smiley reads.

Wiz: Idk why this player has been getting scum read, and I don't agree with the previous player in my slot. Wiz has been pretty solvey all game, and he's been one of the most active players. This game has been too inactive for scum to actively decide to put so much attention on themself like he has.

Wartortle: A self proclaimed town leader that I'm fine with town binning for now. Depending on flips, I could see him potentially being a power wolf, but it feels very unlikely.

Enchant: Pass.

Heip: Hard to follow what's going on with him, but he looks like lim bait. Going on the backburner for later.

Hold: I got genuine townie outrage from him and feel some empathy there. I think this is just town.

OWER: 345 rang alarm bells for me, it read like panicked scum who was scrambling around all of the replace-ins. The fact he moved his vote later on solidifies this for me.

Star: Has some LAMIST posts that I didn't like. I have a scum lean here but it's based mostly on vibes.

Knott: Nothing to comment on. I'm hoping Shea town tells.

Python: I like posts 125 and 327, I feel fine setting them aside as town.

VOTE: Naerys

this is extremely weak sauce especially about me. I've said a bunch of stuff, you didn't feel interested in talking about any of it? I'm generally town read right now so clearly other people already saw some "towntells" that you claim to be waiting for?

[Thestatusquo]

Sorry, I had trouble connecting to the site the last couple days. I had caught up when it was 15 pages and I'm just going to give my thoughts from there. As of now I'll be playing in the present and just catch up over the night phase.

Smiley: Seemed odd early on but I agreed with a lot of his posts. 210 and 353 are posts I especially liked and thought were townie.

Hu Tao: A lot of nothing for awhile, but I think that's townie for her judging by past experience. Which maybe sounds mean and I don't intend to mean it that way, but I've seen them be very active/proactive as scum and I don't think their attitude matches their scum games so far.

Naerys: I don't agree with most of the reasoning she's given for her reads. 152 is the only post I kinda like, but even then she only null reads Star later on, which is just off to me. I hate the Wartortle and Smiley reads.

Wiz: Idk why this player has been getting scum read, and I don't agree with the previous player in my slot. Wiz has been pretty solvey all game, and he's been one of the most active players. This game has been too inactive for scum to actively decide to put so much attention on themself like he has.

Wartortle: A self proclaimed town leader that I'm fine with town binning for now. Depending on flips, I could see him potentially being a power wolf, but it feels very unlikely.

Enchant: Pass.

Heip: Hard to follow what's going on with him, but he looks like lim bait. Going on the backburner for later.

Hold: I got genuine townie outrage from him and feel some empathy there. I think this is just town.

OWER: 345 rang alarm bells for me, it read like panicked scum who was scrambling around all of the replace-ins. The fact he moved his vote later on solidifies this for me.

Star: Has some LAMIST posts that I didn't like. I have a scum lean here but it's based mostly on vibes.

Knott: Nothing to comment on. I'm hoping Shea town tells.

Python: I like posts 125 and 327, I feel fine setting them aside as town.

VOTE: Naerys

this is extremely weak sauce especially about me. I've said a bunch of stuff, you didn't feel interested in talking about any of it? I'm generally town read right now so clearly other people already saw some "towntells" that you claim to be waiting for?

while it is one of the weakest sauce read lists i have ever seen, roden said he had only caught up to pg 15

reading is extremely hard and how dare you

[Thestatusquo]

this seems like flailing.

[Thestatusquo]

wait wtf there was a hammer?

[Thestatusquo]

thats what I get for trying to process the game right after I wake up.

[Thestatusquo]

That sounds like enchant.

[Thestatusquo]

part of why I thought the new thing is an act tbh.

Seer and cop are the same role.

It's just madlibs.

[Thestatusquo]

but looking at it again he uses three different terms for cop there. That's probably a breadcrumb lmao.

[Thestatusquo]

Naery's reaction to the no flip feels pretty like the kind of reaction I've seen from scum on no flips.

[Thestatusquo]

in my experience "WOW NO KILL LETS SPECULATE" is way more likely to come from town than scum. Town has absolutely no benefit that can come from discussing the no kill or why it happened whereas scum benefit greatly from town speculating and reacting to speculation about what roles do or do not exist.

[Thestatusquo]

*come from scum than town. Inability to type also very scummy tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

like ffs what benefit do y'all think comes from "LOL LETS TALK ABOUT AND SEE HOW PEOPLE REACT TO DISCUSSION OF TOWN ROLES HAHA NO TOWN ROLES REACT TO THIS PLEASE UWU UNLESS????"

[Thestatusquo]

So like either you're scum role fishing or you're being absolutely brainless as town is my two possibilities.

[Thestatusquo]

Please for fucks sakes stop you are either scum or inting

[Thestatusquo]

I do not know a way to say "the way you are playing right now is horrifically bad if you're town so please stop."

You are playing horribly if you're town. Please stop.

[Thestatusquo]

I agree the way enchant is playing around this is weird.

[Thestatusquo]

Naery's offense feels real tho.

Or, more accurately I feel like she wouldn't try to fake this particular emotion if she were scum in this spot.

[Thestatusquo]

I kinda want to go Enchant before Naerys tbh. I think he might flip red regardless of what she flips. If she is town then Enchant seems informed of her alignment. He's subtly defending her here which probably indicates a pockety type thing going on

can you unpack this for me? What specifically make you think enchant is informed and what things are defenses?

[Thestatusquo]

If you call someone brainless, there's no need for them to fake being upset. It was unnecessary on your part

If she's scum my comment doesn't call her brainless.

[Thestatusquo]

If she's scum my comment is borderline a compliment.

[Thestatusquo]

Guys I bowled 200 for the first time ever in my league tonight. Too excited to read whatever the hell it was that happened here over the last 5 pages yet.

[Thestatusquo]

Sounds like mafia! Happy to talk while you're here. What do you think about the last few pages besides "arguing"

[Thestatusquo]

nah don't read give me those sweet sweet top of the head impressions.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm losing the thread on this game. I'll need to get something to jumpstart me back into it.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm losing the thread on this game. I'll need to get something to jumpstart me back into it.

Thoughts on me vs. Roden?

I will need to read it first.

[Thestatusquo]

OutWorldER comes out from this much worse than THS tbh

I don't get how you can get a read from anything other than the last votecount and I don't see why scum can't be off wagon there

All 3 scum outside of the wagon? Possible, but i dont believe that

I'm not talking about having all 3 scum off wagon here, I'm saying your wagonomics implies no scum were off wagon

wagonomics is garbage.

[Thestatusquo]

I've caught up. I think there's scum in the quiet contingent.

I don't really like how smiley and blackstar are like positioning themselves as voices of reason without really needing to take much risk and are letting the louder members of the town eat each other. I don't know if everyone yelling is town but I think the majority of them are.

Also I've done the exact thing roden is doing with the self vote lim my target tomorrow as both town and scum so I'm treating it as completely NAI.

[Thestatusquo]

I think my preferred lim is blackstar followed by maybe smiley? I remember having a reason to town read smiley earlier but I don't really remember what it was.

[Thestatusquo]

I would be ok with a BlackStar vote but I would much rather fade Roden

is that your brain talking or your annoyance at them?

Not to put too fine a point on it but WHY do you want roden limmed?

[Thestatusquo]

Give me post numbers because i mostly remember a lot of things I see as nai.

[Thestatusquo]

I mean, but thats what I don't like about your ISO blackstar. You seem to be unwilling to push the game forward in any direction. It reminds of how scum look when they're worried that if they push the wrong person that they'll end up getting counterpushed or they can't think of anything to push so they fall back into the much safer pattern of pointing out slight flaws in things other people think rather than trying to advance their own thoughts.

[Thestatusquo]

Like I guess I don't see any reason Roden can't be scum so I'm not like hard opposed or anything but a lot of the reason he's being pushed seems to be he got mad and said some mean stuff and then AtE self voted and that does not a scum case make imo.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm gunna VOTE: blackstar until I actually see some indication they're trying to find scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Looks a lot like the town ower I played with in 2170

[Thestatusquo]

It might be, I just skimmed through his iso when you asked.

Uh, two thoughts :

1) I really didn’t know OWER was trying to ask Naerys specifically on why she changed her vote and such, which is why I shared my theory on that—wasn’t trying to speak for her .

I also see what you mean about the two-pronged theory not being super helpful—I think in trying to be accurate (and therefore covering all the possibilities I could see), I lost most of the decisiveness of just presenting the possibility I thought most applicable. I appreciate you pointing that fact out for me—I’ll have to try to be more narrow with my theories in the future so they can have more… oomph.

Okay, none of what you're saying here is dissuading my vote on you because you're still dancing around the problem. You presented two theories, one of which implies Naerys Town and the other implies Naerys Scum, and then left it there without saying which you even believe in. It would be different if you stated a concrete read or even a lean on Naerys beforehand but in the absence of that it just looks like you're setting yourself up to see which way the wind blows on Naerys and shading her at the same time. That's what's ringing my scum alarm bells.

I think there's a lot of solving thoughts in a lot of his posts. Like there's a bunch of observations like this which feel like they're going a step further beyond what scum would do to fake a read a lot of the time. I think the main difference between the two games is that he is more present there and less here, but the content when he's here feels very similar to me.

[Thestatusquo]

I think there's a lot of solving thoughts in a lot of his posts. Like there's a bunch of observations like this which feel like they're going a step further beyond what scum would do to fake a read a lot of the time. I think the main difference between the two games is that he is more present there and less here, but the content when he's here feels very similar to me.

Kinda seems like the way I play scum tbh

Thanks for sharing your read

Isn't this just describing "emulating their town play"?

Like what differences would you expect to see from townOwer that you're not seeing?

[Thestatusquo]

I mean, but thats what I don't like about your ISO blackstar. You seem to be unwilling to push the game forward in any direction. It reminds of how scum look when they're worried that if they push the wrong person that they'll end up getting counterpushed or they can't think of anything to push so they fall back into the much safer pattern of pointing out slight flaws in things other people think rather than trying to advance their own thoughts.

Hm… I feel like BlackStar has been pushing

a lot

though—and often, he’s pushing back against people and their reads. He’s kind of in the trenches right now and consistently arguing with most of the rest of town, and I think that might be why it seems like he’s not progressing the game like some of the rest of us are.

After all, when the majority of the town is against you and your reads, I would imagine you have to choose between pushing your own stuff and countering theirs—doing both probably isn’t feasible for just one person with a life y’know?

pushing back against people and their reads != pushing your own thoughts/trying to solve the game.

I feel like that was entirely my point.

[Thestatusquo]

And I could be wrong about outworlder.

I need more than just "he is posting townie sounding stuff which is what I do as scum" though and like not trying to be rude that feels like what a lot of this case is?

[Thestatusquo]

What am I missing then? I'm summarizing for the sake of brevity and your own 1247.

If I'm missing something feel free to say what.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not going to try and convince you to vote OWER. I think you could be his partner and if he flips red I'm coming for you next

Ah yes, now I'm a scum read despite the fact that you've been town reading me the whole game. Lol. Ok dude.

[Thestatusquo]

The idea that my play as scum when a buddy is getting run up would be to actively and completely defend them with no exit strategy at all is one of the silliest things you've ever said but you're uh welcome to try if he flips red I guess.

[Thestatusquo]

So are you not going to say what I'm missing from your case then in my summary or...?

You call it disingenuous. I call it accurate. You basically are like you're doing all these things. I say heres an example of him doing similar things as town. You say "well some people are good at faking town stuff" when I ask you to tell me what you would expect him to be doing differently if he were town.

Like, thats a half formed read and you seem to have no curiosity about the possibility of it being wrong, and it makes me kinda think you might be scum.

[Thestatusquo]

You're not actively analyzing the evidence. "Well some people are good at faking town stuff" is not a good faith response to the question "what would he be doing differently as town, here's an example of him doing plenty of the stuff you're scum reading him for as town what is he doing differently?" its a deflection at best.

If you think x is scum because of y, someone telling you well here he is doing y as town should make you reevaluate your position. Indeed, that should have been part of your initial read formation in the first place. So the fact that you seem to have not considered it is why it feels half formed to me.

[Thestatusquo]

I didn't really think black was scum here until her like added jab of "i'm coming for you next."

I'm not sure what the purpose of that statement would be as town. As town if you genuinely think I'm scum with Ower why would you alert me to that fact? How does that benefit you? All it does is give scum more information about how to play around the situation.

As scum though there's a lot of motivations. It might get me to back off. It might get me to stop pushing so hard on my town read. It subtly poisons my well because it implies I'm less than credible.

VOTE: Black

pedit: I'm not mad. I think your read is bad and I think you're scum now.

[Thestatusquo]

The lack of self awareness there.

"you think me having bad reads is scum indicative! I have bad reads all the time! That's why I'm not willing to listen to you about how bad my read is!"

I'm not scum reading you for the read exactly, I'm scum reading you because you seem unwilling to interact with why the read might be wrong and because the way you're going about pushing it and interacting with me about it is scummy as fuck.

[Thestatusquo]

like "My reads are so bad!" right into "you can't criticize my read or I think you're scum together!" is a breathtaking lack of self awareness.

As I said I didn't think you were scum because your read was bad, I think you're scum because of the way you're going about pushing it and specifically how you're trying to chainsaw me into it.

[Thestatusquo]

you could believe me, a person who you were ostensibly town reading who has actually played with him, instead of doubling and tripling down and trying to tie me together in response because you're mad.

[Thestatusquo]

Yes, because if you spent like 10 seconds thinking about it you would realize you have never once in your life playing mafia seen a scum player interact with a scum read on their buddy the way I am doing right now. So either you're mad and not taking the time to think this through or you're scum imo.

[Thestatusquo]

You know how I feel about meta so why would I blindly believe your weak meta read on OWER? You even said yourself you could be wrong. Like what?

Now THIS is disingenuous on like multiple levels.

[Thestatusquo]

Your progression here doesn't make sense if you are town

buzz words are neat. I too can say "progression."

Now explain why.

[Thestatusquo]

My town read right now is subtle? Fucking listen to yourself.

[Thestatusquo]

I've spent like 6 pages arguing it. Very subtle. Maybe no one will notice!

[Thestatusquo]

So you can't explain it then? Got it.

Good talk.

[Thestatusquo]

My town read right now is subtle? Fucking listen to yourself.

I've spent like 6 pages arguing it. Very subtle. Maybe no one will notice!

It was very subtle at first, now you are using AtE to try and blow it into "oh look I've been defending OWER for 6 pages!!11!!"

Like go look at your initial read when I asked you. You said he feels like he did in another town game you were in. That's the most basic townread you can drop. You gave me some extra stuff when I asked you to but then you shifted into attacking me. You're scum here

I haven't used AtE once here.

I have simply repeatedly pointed out that your read doesn't make sense and your attempt to shift over to attacking me makes even less sense.

[Thestatusquo]

up you've been awfully quiet too. What do you think about stuff.

[Thestatusquo]

For...what? That's like L-5?

[Thestatusquo]

that seems like a pretty big overreaction to me simply pointing out that e-5 isnt exactly a point where we need to go woah nelly.

[Thestatusquo]

This game has been awful. No one can scumread anyone without getting flamed for it. This whole "FUCK YOU FOR THINKING ITS ME" bullshit really ruined the game for me. The rules literally say to be kind and no personal attacks and that never gets enforced. We have a literal mod in here breaking the rule on multiple occasions. It's disgusting

Bruh on the real there has been almost nothing in this game outside the normal realm of Mafia game play and if you're really blowing your top and calling the game awful over anything in this game as anything other that ate you should really reevaluate.

On the one hand I agree with you that people should be nice to each other but on the other hand when someone decides that the mildest stuff is toxic and starts ate-ing about how awful everyone is being when it's just a normal ass Mafia game just because people don't agree with her and scum read her it also makes the game toxic. Sometimes you really need to take a look in the damn mirror dude.

[Thestatusquo]

Like I can't make a comment that is super relevant to the game about how you're overreacting to 2 votes. I.e. something Mafia FREQUENTLY do in order to try to seem like a voice of reason in response to a wagon without you acting like it's somehow a personal attack.

It's not. And it's extremely frustrating that you keep interacting with everyone who disagrees with you or scum reads you this way.

[Thestatusquo]

Confirm VOTE: black

In really fucking sick of how you're playing.

[Thestatusquo]

Like I can't make a comment that is super relevant to the game about how you're overreacting to 2 votes. I.e. something Mafia FREQUENTLY do in order to try to seem like a voice of reason in response to a wagon without you acting like it's somehow a personal attack.

It's not. And it's extremely frustrating that you keep interacting with everyone who disagrees with you or scum reads you this way.

For the record I don't think your L-5 comment was a personal attack or disrespectful. My 1374 was about some of the stuff you said before that

In really fucking sick of how you're playing.

Ditto

none of what I said earlier even approaches the line. You called it disgusting. FFS. It's not a coincidence that you've been involved in every single one of these fights.

[Thestatusquo]

Your attitude this game is that if anyone dares criticize you or think you're anything but town then fuck them they're an asshole and a piece of shit. You can say ditto all you want but no one in this game has deserved the going off you gave them.

[Thestatusquo]

Like you're one of my favorite people on this site. I'm not trying to fight with you personally. I simply want to think you're mafia in a game on the internet without you blowing up at me.

[Thestatusquo]

And like if you're town then like I'm sorry but like I don't know why you always get so angry at me when I scum read you? That's the game we're playing and you deliberately replaced into this game after I did. I'm just trying to play mafia.

[Thestatusquo]

Saying something is bad and the thing they're doing is dumb is just accurate descriptions of play that you sometimes have to make in a game of Mafia. You do the same thing all the time. That's literally just a huge part of the game.

[Thestatusquo]

Wait was blacks claim real?

[Thestatusquo]

Also was that an elim? I have just woken up. Don't really have a problem with it though I think python was mostly spouting nonsense over the last few pages.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm vt

[Thestatusquo]

The night one results on me don't make any damn sense.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think black ever plays today like she did as scum fwiw.

[Thestatusquo]

So enchant either is scum or needs to pull his head from betwixt his cheeks.

[Thestatusquo]

Oh ok, I missed the JK in that list. Yeah ok they make sense.

[Thestatusquo]

You really think black comes into today like this as scum? For what reason?

[Thestatusquo]

so like were you just saying she was scum because you were mad or...?

[Thestatusquo]

I have to confess I'm not great at mech myself. I guess I kinda think python is scum from the night actions but given that I couldn't even correctly parse them wrt myself on night one I'm not particularly confident in that.

[Thestatusquo]

given that I couldn't even correctly parse them wrt myself on night one

I don't get what this means

The night one results on me don't make any damn sense.

The night one results on me don't make any damn sense.

How? THS tried to shoot you but failed because the Jailkeeper roleblocked the vig action

Oh ok, I missed the JK in that list. Yeah ok they make sense.

[Thestatusquo]

its also a little bit disingenuous.

knowing what a role means in an intellectual sense !== being able to correctly parse how a setup with said roles fits together on the fly.

[Thestatusquo]

Posting a read list from yesterday before all claims and night actions were revealed rather than just putting in the work to try to figure out a new one does feel a bit anti-spewy to me.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: Naerys

[Thestatusquo]

I jailed AnimatedWiz last night btw

Python/THS/Shea

I think that has to be the team

I wanted to lim python fucking yesterday.

[Thestatusquo]

the only thing that makes me think theres something mechanical I'm missing is enchants lack of claim and the fact that python hasn't self hammered yet which they will surely do as scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Actually now that I think about it, the WIFOM behind THS's doc shot could be why scum didn't target me.

Yea, the potential of the roleblocker being an X-shot is partly why I waited a night to use my save. But also, partly because I was frustrated about the Blackstar lim.

Am I missing something, what role blocker?

[Thestatusquo]

I'm going to be pretty low effort for tomorrow through the weekend, got a lot going on.

[Thestatusquo]

Actually now that I think about it, the WIFOM behind THS's doc shot could be why scum didn't target me.

Yea, the potential of the roleblocker being an X-shot is partly why I waited a night to use my save. But also, partly because I was frustrated about the Blackstar lim.

Am I missing something, what role blocker?

My night two track attempt didn't go through and nobody claimed responsibility, so I'm just assuming the presence of a scum roleblocker based off of that

This doesn't make sense to me, or at least your thought about it feels somewhat incomplete.

If smiley is indeed town and you are indeed town and scum has a role blocker why would they not just rb you and kill smiley?

[Thestatusquo]

You don't seem particularly curious about the answer.

[Thestatusquo]

I do think it should be obvious that scum has some sort of ability here because of all the potential town has to stop kills. I'm not really sure why anyone was ever operating under a different assumption. Smiley is still conf imo.

This game has been ridiculously frustrating for me because it has felt like the last 3-4 days have all been the following: I post some stuff. I don't post for like 12 hours and then I check the thread and we've mislimmed like 2 days into the game day.

So it's kinda been hard for me to parse because of this and I feel like I haven't really even been given a chance to play.

But I'm going to take my time today because of we need to slow the fuck down. People have been going rapid fire for like 4 days now and I need time to read and think.

[Thestatusquo]

my most recent scum game is team mafia - amnesiac mafia if you want to read it.

[Thestatusquo]

Actually maybe I played a different more recently. I've rolled like entirely scum this year.

[Thestatusquo]

fwiw I agree I have a weird vibe this game but I don't think its alignment related, I think its because I have literally never felt like I was playing at like any point this game because the days just kept ending before I ever got involved and so I've just been completely disconnected. If you read my town and scum games you'll see I don't have a problem involving myself usually. I'm almost always the highest post count player as both scum and town but this game I've just been unable to actually play the way I usually do because of the way things have gone down, and I think that has made me kind of like an outsider floating on the periphery of this game, which is not where I'm accustomed to playing as either alignment.

[Thestatusquo]

i know I haven't been here much, I'm sorry.

This time its not the games fault its mine. I think I prefer ower over enchant but I am not sure.

[Thestatusquo]

I kind of keep coming back to the slip though.

[Thestatusquo]

see this is part of my problem though.

Like making an assumption is conscious when one thinks through the actions. Thinking through actions and coming to a conclusion is one thing, but that's not what happened and this whole defense feels disingenuous to me

[Thestatusquo]

eh fuck it, I've read the two isos and like this is hard to quantify in words but it just kinda feels like enchant has cared a lot more about finding scum this game than outworlder has.

like it really just feels like outworlder has been coasting completely without ever really caring very much about who gets eliminated at all.

[Thestatusquo]

I think that outweighs the slip thing.

[Thestatusquo]

the mech solving stuff he was doing with the various different worlds based on the claim felt much closer to what i'd expect from town enchant than scum enchant. the refusal to participate in the mass claim also felt like something enchant was much more likely to do if enchant is town based on my experience with him.

Like I'm not gunna try to convince you because you're either scum or in a world where enchant is confirmed scum to you, but the claim that he hasn't done "a single town thing" is like...not factually accurate to the point of being kind of laughable?

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: outworlder

In addition to what I just said that last post just doesn't feel particularly genuine to me at all.

[Thestatusquo]

Damn that's so easy.

GG mafia.

what? are we wrong?

[Thestatusquo]

I played this game like dogshit. :/

[Thestatusquo]

hi.

[Thestatusquo]

I am leaning towards ani because I don't think enchant and ower stuff was theatre.

I need to read back though. I just have a pretty set meta of enchant in my head as scum and town and this does not really look like enchant scum. If he IS scum here he's significantly different from how I expect him to be, which is not impossible but just you know. Meh.

[Thestatusquo]

I mean I think crossvoting on purpose is very different from what y'all were doing. Am I missing something there?

[Thestatusquo]

I think I’m confused—you’re saying you don’t think OWER and I coordinated a double-bus, right?

If so, why do you think Enchant and OWER’s crossvote at the end is more town-indicative than me and OWER going at it for the entire game?

Because I don't think I've ever seen scum just come into what is end game and cross vote.

I mean I guess it's wifom but I've never seen it.

Can you break down your and owers 'going at it' for me?

[Thestatusquo]

Also, here’s the issue, Shea: if I trust that you know what you’re talking about, it means that Enchant probably isn’t scum—which leaves you as the only possibility left.

Well yes, I think you're in a rough spot as scum here. You were leaning on voting enchant until I came in and noted that I was unlikely to vote enchant. Enchant previously has said he is unlikely to vote me.

I'm not sure what your play is here. I think you're just caught and you should cross vote with one of us and let the other figure it out.

[Thestatusquo]

Do mafia often forget to lick teammates.

When I'm scum I would prefer to be licked by none of my teammates TBH.

[Thestatusquo]

If I'm scum here I don't know why I wouldn't just vote ani when enchant said he would insta hammer.

[Thestatusquo]

You'd be dead if you were town and wrong.

[Thestatusquo]

Wait no I'm an idiot LMAO.

[Thestatusquo]

In my mind I had already voted you.

VOTE: ani

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah.

Voting you doesn’t seem like it’ll work to prevent me from getting voted out, so a 50% chance is better than 0%. It’s my best option.

This is part of what made me sure it was ani and not enchant tbh though I'm pretty sure I was going to come down that way anyway.

You seemed convinced it was enchant and then as soon as I came in and expressed that I was leaning toward you your entire worldview switched.

Town you would have tried to convince me I'm wrong. Scum you switched to a different target with almost no provocation at all.

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah.

Voting you doesn’t seem like it’ll work to prevent me from getting voted out, so a 50% chance is better than 0%. It’s my best option.

This is part of what made me sure it was ani and not enchant tbh though I'm pretty sure I was going to come down that way anyway.

You seemed convinced it was enchant and then as soon as I came in and expressed that I was leaning toward you your entire worldview switched.

Town you would have tried to convince me I'm wrong. Scum you switched to a different target with almost no provocation at all.

I did try to convince you, and I saw it getting nowhere. I know that Enchant is at least willing to consider my arguments, so I’m just banking on that actually working out for me in the end—long shot over no shot.

You made like one half hearted argument how you were calling your teammate scum a lot.

[Thestatusquo]

Would explaining how the kills make no sense if I committed them work? I was still trying to get through to Black, and I was working to elim Roden.

Would explaining how Enchant has worse associations with Python work? Or even how OWER forgot to read you and otherwise tried to distance himself from you work?

Would showing my consistent explanation for my votes and reads and how they have been far more upfront and detailed than both of yours work?

That’s the evidence I have—if that isn’t going to be convincing, I have little left, especially if you’re just going to repeatedly call me scum.

What is your argument for me?

Hard to say because you didn't really try to do any of that, you just switched targets despite the fact that until previously you had been expressing it was enchant and using language like "me and shea might need some time to figure it out"

And now I know you're scum so its hard to care about those arguments now.

I have already explained why I think you're scum here. It was quite honestly more that I thought enchant was definitely town than anything to do with you, which I've explained in detail quite a bit, but the way you reacted to my entrance to the thread definitely sealed it for me.

[Thestatusquo]

One last note: Shea’s been consistently off the eliminating wagons since D1 until OWER—I may have been wrong about some of the wagons, but Shea has barely cast any votes at all.

I really do think Shea has been trying to slip under the radar and not make waves—to avoid any associations at all and therefore not have anything tying him to the flipped scum at ELO.

If Enchant and OWER’s crossvote is town-indicative, and my repeated crossvotes with OWER are also town-indicative, one person is left without that. Shea.

This is a disingenuous argument. You've read my scum games and you know that's not how I play as scum. Enchant has played with scum me too and knows that I'm not shy about voting or being on wagons as scum.

[Thestatusquo]

The last statement is laughable. Cross voting each other at end game when a quicklim wins the game is not the same as voting each other at other random times throughout the game. Scum don't do the first much (I've never personally seen it) and they do the latter frequently

Is your claim seriously that scum don't vote each other? Have you heard of bussing?

[Thestatusquo]

I think the motivation for both is the same tbh.

In both worlds if they think ower is going down anyway they might as well be on the wagon for credit.

Ani even played that angle up with AtE.

Ugh, but if I stall on OWER’s elimination, people could claim I’ve been bussing all game until the end when my true partnership is suddenly revealed.

This is awful. I hate being a deciding vote in these kinds of situations—so many factors to weigh.

[Thestatusquo]

tbh I don't care enough to put work in here. I think you already know the broad strokes of what I would say anyway. just pick someone I want the game to be over.

[Thestatusquo]

Gg

[Thestatusquo]

I keep rolling scum and I keep winning. I think this is like 5 scum wins for me this year? But this game I absolutely didnt deserve it, I played like utter crap. Shout out to my team mates for the hard carry this game, I'm not sure what I did exactly to earn town reads, my best contribution was to get into a shit fight with black to muddy the waters and keep ower alive.

[Thestatusquo]

oh, no redactions if thats a thing that needs to be said.