Mini Normal 2322: Game Over
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Flavor Leaf Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 42893
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- Location: San Francisco
I don’t sheep reads, i take others reads into consideration, and i may sheep votes for momentum purposes.
I think purple has absolutely no objective in their postsCHECK OUT MY HOW TO PLAY AS SCUM GUIDE Maybe it'll help you catch me
”Yeah, the moment I realized Flavor was scum I stopped trying because I’m sure as hell not beating him.” - Clemency
”Not bragging about myself as much as I'm actually praising the Scum player of the year...and probably the decade.” - Almost50
"Just accept that FL is too good as scum, period." - Clidd-
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7321
- Joined: November 3, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Middle Tennessee
I feel like option 2 (heavily bussing) does not describe your play. You put quotes to support it in this next post, but what you're giving me evidence of is that you're shading Lap but never voting there. Do you not see how that looks from an outside POV of someone that is scumreading Lap individually?In post 518, DragonEater70 wrote:
1. I am conftown in my own eyes. You are correct that objectively I could be in option 3,In post 507, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
1. You forgot to put yourself in option 3 where Lap is not being bussed and his teammates are off-wagonIn post 503, DragonEater70 wrote: Based on people pushing Lap, there are three options:
1. He isn't scum
2. He is being heavily bussed
3. He is scum with exactly two of joyboy/cw/Hu Tao/FL
He isn't scum with FL because FL wouldn't let a scum buddy basically VT claim and stay at E-2 without a real counterwagon
I am ignoring the possibility of him being scum with Hu Tao for now and will come back to it later
He is not scum with exactly Joyboy/cw because having vanity wagons on each other while your partner is the main wagon is the best way to lose as mafia and I get the feeling Joyboy at least has SOME level of competence in Mafia.
So barring Hu Tao partnership, we eliminate option 3.
On option 2 it's a lot quicker: is there anyone who is positioned to gain towncred from Lap flipping scum? Not really. I mean Kyo is probably not scum with Lap so would look good if he flips scum, but since she's not scum with him she isn't bussing.
So it's also not very likely scum are bussing (unless scum are just really bad).
Conclusion:
Either Lap is just town, or scum are really bad and are doing a stupid bus right now (in which case I feel fine letting Lap live a little longer since his buddies probably will be revealed through associations), or Lap is scum with Hu Tao + somebody else.
Since I currently TR Hu Tao and since I think she'd probably react differently to a wagon on buddy (either bus or hard defend), I'm fine with saying he is most likely not scum with Hu Tao, but this is not a hard no like with Flavor.
Suggestion:
Let's start a new wagon
VOTE: Abneg
(I was already voting Abneg, now voting for a different reason)
2. It's pretty bold of you to assume what scum!FL would do
1+2 = {Lap,DE70,FL?}but actually I'm being ruled out by option 2 because I was also scumreading Lap and poking him.
2. It's not, I know quite a bit about FL
There was no "maybe bussing but not positioned to gain anything" in that case - you mentioned I wasn't position to gain anything, but that's scenario 2 stuff. I'm talking about scenario 3, where you are a partner of Lap's who is not bussing him, along with one of the other people you listed there (off-wagoners)In post 546, DragonEater70 wrote:
That's trueIn post 538, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
So people can read it and nod along and be like "yeah this all makes sense" and if they don't consider the basis of all the facts you're starting from, they can be misled by scum!youIn post 535, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
If you want to towncase Lap convincingly you're going to have to do it from an outside POV if you want it to convince people outside your own town POV.In post 523, DragonEater70 wrote: She sees me not consider myself possible scum and her first thought is to point it out as possibly damning as a partner with Lap.
I can make cases as though I'm town, as scum, and they can make sense because I'm pretending to be town. If you don't build your case from an outside POV it's going to be less convincing. I am wary of you pushing this towncase as truth because it looks believable, but it relies on an unconfirmed assumption that you're town.
When I was writing that case, I was including myself in the people who were "maybe bussing Lap but not positioned to gain anything from it"
I guess it's a bit hard to see from my posts because I have a bad habit to delete a lot of stuff in my pedits, but I definitely started to scumread him. Well actually it shouldn't be THAT hard to see, I have at least 2-3 posts where I say I don't like things by Lap:
Spoiler:She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
"No ssbm is not grudging me. She's one of my favorites on the website, and i wanna say vice versa." - Transcend
The day senpai noticed me^-
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7321
- Joined: November 3, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Middle Tennessee
Laplacian voters as of 503: ssbm_kyouko, Abnegation, Pavowski, HighPrincessErinys, geraintm
Assuming Laplacian scum it would be with 2 of these as partners:
Joyboy
Purplemango
DragonEater70
Hu Tao
Flavor Leaf
cw357
Thomith
bold=missing from 503
Why were purplemango and thomith not listed in scenario 3?In post 503, DragonEater70 wrote: 3. He is scum with exactly two of joyboy/cw/Hu Tao/FLShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
"No ssbm is not grudging me. She's one of my favorites on the website, and i wanna say vice versa." - Transcend
The day senpai noticed me^-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8078
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
All of your points are technically correct Kyoko, but your basic assumption is still incorrect.
You have a worldview you have developed (which is incorrect) and instead of connecting the pieces of the puzzle correctly so that they show you the truth, you try to force them together so they reflect your worldview
I don't think anything I could say would change your worldview so I am not going to bother
FWIW - the big post where I was explaining why we shouldn't push Lap right now - that post wasn't for you, it was for people who were hedging or unsure. And I am pretty sure these people didn't need a proof from me why I am not scum with Lap in order for them to understand what I was trying to say.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8078
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I already explained whyIn post 552, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: Laplacian voters as of 503: ssbm_kyouko, Abnegation, Pavowski, HighPrincessErinys, geraintm
Assuming Laplacian scum it would be with 2 of these as partners:
Joyboy
Purplemango
DragonEater70
Hu Tao
Flavor Leaf
cw357
Thomith
bold=missing from 503
Why were purplemango and thomith not listed in scenario 3?In post 503, DragonEater70 wrote: 3. He is scum with exactly two of joyboy/cw/Hu Tao/FL-
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Flavor Leaf Survivor
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- Posts: 42893
- Joined: July 17, 2017
- Location: San Francisco
In the chance that Lap is scum, they are scum with at least one of the people on that first list.In post 552, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: Laplacian voters as of 503: ssbm_kyouko, Abnegation, Pavowski, HighPrincessErinys, geraintm
Assuming Laplacian scum it would be with 2 of these as partners:
Joyboy
Purplemango
DragonEater70
Hu Tao
Flavor Leaf
cw357
Thomith
bold=missing from 503
Why were purplemango and thomith not listed in scenario 3?In post 503, DragonEater70 wrote: 3. He is scum with exactly two of joyboy/cw/Hu Tao/FL
Not liking your deep deep assumptions. Seems very black and white, red and blue. Mafia is purple and gray.CHECK OUT MY HOW TO PLAY AS SCUM GUIDE Maybe it'll help you catch me
”Yeah, the moment I realized Flavor was scum I stopped trying because I’m sure as hell not beating him.” - Clemency
”Not bragging about myself as much as I'm actually praising the Scum player of the year...and probably the decade.” - Almost50
"Just accept that FL is too good as scum, period." - Clidd-
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7321
- Joined: November 3, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Middle Tennessee
Didn't notice this - could you explain? I think it looks like (bad) distancing between them, I think I've quoted examples already in my really long post about DE with a lot of spoilers within.In post 524, Flavor Leaf wrote: Kyouko def dropped down a peg with that post.
I don’t really see Dragon/Lap being aligned here.
I kinda get Dragon/FL or FL/Lap, but like, I still think both of those are incredibly surface level and feel like narrative building rather than a genuine read.
I'm most confident in Laplacian being scum. By association, I can see DE as well, but the longer I talk to DE the more I see scum!DE independent of Laplacian. You, I'm seeing as scum by an even further extension of the association from DE to you. I'm least confident in you here.
Think of that game on survivor where they tie all the sticks together with twine so they can reach through the gate and grab the key. Laplacian is the stick in my hand, DE is tied to the end of it, and you're tied to DE's stick, maybe about to fall off. Get me?She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
"No ssbm is not grudging me. She's one of my favorites on the website, and i wanna say vice versa." - Transcend
The day senpai noticed me^-
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
- Jack of All Trades
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- Joined: November 3, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Middle Tennessee
I'm speaking in the context of DE's scenario 3 in 503. I think 503 is deeply flawed and am working to get to the bottom of that. I don't think that if we flip scum!Lap that there are no scum on his wagon right now. I'm trying to figure out how DE got to where he did because the basis seems all wrong. I'm not sure if it's wrong intentionally or by oversight.In post 555, Flavor Leaf wrote:
In the chance that Lap is scum, they are scum with at least one of the people on that first list.In post 552, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: Laplacian voters as of 503: ssbm_kyouko, Abnegation, Pavowski, HighPrincessErinys, geraintm
Assuming Laplacian scum it would be with 2 of these as partners:
Joyboy
Purplemango
DragonEater70
Hu Tao
Flavor Leaf
cw357
Thomith
bold=missing from 503
Why were purplemango and thomith not listed in scenario 3?In post 503, DragonEater70 wrote: 3. He is scum with exactly two of joyboy/cw/Hu Tao/FL
Not liking your deep deep assumptions. Seems very black and white, red and blue. Mafia is purple and gray.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
"No ssbm is not grudging me. She's one of my favorites on the website, and i wanna say vice versa." - Transcend
The day senpai noticed me^-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
- Goon
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- Posts: 557
- Joined: December 9, 2021
- Pronoun: he/they
- Location: UTC -7
Ironically, I already pointed out that the list of my hypothetical coconspirators was missing a few people. Plus I think that assumption that if I was scum, voters are safe is wrong. I'd assume 1 scum on a bus 1 offIn post 552, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: Laplacian voters as of 503: ssbm_kyouko, Abnegation, Pavowski, HighPrincessErinys, geraintm
Assuming Laplacian scum it would be with 2 of these as partners:
Joyboy
Purplemango
DragonEater70
Hu Tao
Flavor Leaf
cw357
Thomith
bold=missing from 503
Why were purplemango and thomith not listed in scenario 3?In post 503, DragonEater70 wrote: 3. He is scum with exactly two of joyboy/cw/Hu Tao/FL-
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Flavor Leaf Survivor
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- Posts: 42893
- Joined: July 17, 2017
- Location: San Francisco
Kinda feel like a flip
I think i heard it somewhere, did Lap claim vanilla?CHECK OUT MY HOW TO PLAY AS SCUM GUIDE Maybe it'll help you catch me
”Yeah, the moment I realized Flavor was scum I stopped trying because I’m sure as hell not beating him.” - Clemency
”Not bragging about myself as much as I'm actually praising the Scum player of the year...and probably the decade.” - Almost50
"Just accept that FL is too good as scum, period." - Clidd-
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Flavor Leaf Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 42893
- Joined: July 17, 2017
- Location: San Francisco
Are we E-2 still?CHECK OUT MY HOW TO PLAY AS SCUM GUIDE Maybe it'll help you catch me
”Yeah, the moment I realized Flavor was scum I stopped trying because I’m sure as hell not beating him.” - Clemency
”Not bragging about myself as much as I'm actually praising the Scum player of the year...and probably the decade.” - Almost50
"Just accept that FL is too good as scum, period." - Clidd-
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
- Jack of All Trades
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- Joined: November 3, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Middle Tennessee
You explained Thomith but not purple - and Thomith is in the same boat as you - shading Lap but not voting him.In post 554, DragonEater70 wrote:
I already explained whyIn post 552, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: Laplacian voters as of 503: ssbm_kyouko, Abnegation, Pavowski, HighPrincessErinys, geraintm
Assuming Laplacian scum it would be with 2 of these as partners:
Joyboy
Purplemango
DragonEater70
Hu Tao
Flavor Leaf
cw357
Thomith
bold=missing from 503
Why were purplemango and thomith not listed in scenario 3?In post 503, DragonEater70 wrote: 3. He is scum with exactly two of joyboy/cw/Hu Tao/FLShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
"No ssbm is not grudging me. She's one of my favorites on the website, and i wanna say vice versa." - Transcend
The day senpai noticed me^-
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7321
- Joined: November 3, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Middle Tennessee
yes and yesShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
"No ssbm is not grudging me. She's one of my favorites on the website, and i wanna say vice versa." - Transcend
The day senpai noticed me^-
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7321
- Joined: November 3, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Middle Tennessee
In post 559, Flavor Leaf wrote: Kinda feel like a flip
I think i heard it somewhere, did Lap claim vanilla?
yes and yes*In post 560, Flavor Leaf wrote: Are we E-2 still?She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
"No ssbm is not grudging me. She's one of my favorites on the website, and i wanna say vice versa." - Transcend
The day senpai noticed me^-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
- Goon
- Goon
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- Pronoun: he/they
- Location: UTC -7
Yep, E-2 now, claimed when I hit E-3 since it looked like there was momentum.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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This is stupidIn post 557, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
I'm speaking in the context of DE's scenario 3 in 503. I think 503 is deeply flawed and am working to get to the bottom of that. I don't think that if we flip scum!Lap that there are no scum on his wagon right now. I'm trying to figure out how DE got to where he did because the basis seems all wrong. I'm not sure if it's wrong intentionally or by oversight.In post 555, Flavor Leaf wrote:
In the chance that Lap is scum, they are scum with at least one of the people on that first list.In post 552, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: Laplacian voters as of 503: ssbm_kyouko, Abnegation, Pavowski, HighPrincessErinys, geraintm
Assuming Laplacian scum it would be with 2 of these as partners:
Joyboy
Purplemango
DragonEater70
Hu Tao
Flavor Leaf
cw357
Thomith
bold=missing from 503
Why were purplemango and thomith not listed in scenario 3?In post 503, DragonEater70 wrote: 3. He is scum with exactly two of joyboy/cw/Hu Tao/FL
Not liking your deep deep assumptions. Seems very black and white, red and blue. Mafia is purple and gray.
Not everyone is a perfectionist like yourself and the fact that you disagree with a person not providing proof why they aren't scum doesn't make that person scum. "getting to the bottom of this" is not going to give you anything AI, just frustration.
I simply can't be bothered with towncasing myself and refuting your quotes when you are the only person even remotely scumreading me (except Lap, ironically enough, but even he doesn't try to vote me).-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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I kinda want to vote Lap and have him flip town just so Kyouko drops this stupid fucking issue-
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7321
- Joined: November 3, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Middle Tennessee
do itShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
"No ssbm is not grudging me. She's one of my favorites on the website, and i wanna say vice versa." - Transcend
The day senpai noticed me^-
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Flavor Leaf Survivor
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- Location: San Francisco
Yeah, I’m cool with a Vanilla flip today at worst case scenario.
I was gonna offer CW up because I don’t think i saw the vanilla claim, but remember a reference to it.
Yeah, Lap, I don’t think you necessarily flip scum, but I’m ready to move on, and you’re vanilla.
Sorry if you’re town, but i think your flip leads to scum if you are town.CHECK OUT MY HOW TO PLAY AS SCUM GUIDE Maybe it'll help you catch me
”Yeah, the moment I realized Flavor was scum I stopped trying because I’m sure as hell not beating him.” - Clemency
”Not bragging about myself as much as I'm actually praising the Scum player of the year...and probably the decade.” - Almost50
"Just accept that FL is too good as scum, period." - Clidd-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8078
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
To me, all three of us are in the same boat of "I want to vote Lap but he's at E-2 and I don't want to pressure more than that".In post 561, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
You explained Thomith but not purple - and Thomith is in the same boat as you - shading Lap but not voting him.In post 554, DragonEater70 wrote:
I already explained whyIn post 552, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: Laplacian voters as of 503: ssbm_kyouko, Abnegation, Pavowski, HighPrincessErinys, geraintm
Assuming Laplacian scum it would be with 2 of these as partners:
Joyboy
Purplemango
DragonEater70
Hu Tao
Flavor Leaf
cw357
Thomith
bold=missing from 503
Why were purplemango and thomith not listed in scenario 3?In post 503, DragonEater70 wrote: 3. He is scum with exactly two of joyboy/cw/Hu Tao/FL
All the people in this boat are in my mind equivalent to voting Lap in the context of 503. Why? Because all three of us would have voted Lap if he was at E-3 instead.
Does that make you feel better?-
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Flavor Leaf Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 42893
- Joined: July 17, 2017
- Location: San Francisco
Vote Lap, DragonCHECK OUT MY HOW TO PLAY AS SCUM GUIDE Maybe it'll help you catch me
”Yeah, the moment I realized Flavor was scum I stopped trying because I’m sure as hell not beating him.” - Clemency
”Not bragging about myself as much as I'm actually praising the Scum player of the year...and probably the decade.” - Almost50
"Just accept that FL is too good as scum, period." - Clidd-
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cw357 Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 297
- Joined: September 26, 2020
DONT POCKET MEIn post 469, Hu Tao wrote:
I actually agree with this. Policy elims are terribleIn post 457, cw357 wrote:
people who actively try to pl are auto-impostorIn post 247, Joyboy wrote: VOTE: CW
THIS MEAT IS TERRIBLE! HEALTHY BUT TERRIBLE!
LETS GET IT OUT OF HERE SO WE CAN GET TO THE GOOD MEAT TOMORROW
VOTE: Joyboy
the site mods threatened to ban meIn post 475, Laplacian wrote: Glad cw is back and toning down the memes. However, they pop back in within 30 minutes of Kyouko saying cw had valid thoughts. Could just be good timing, but I'm also thinking scum chat coaching. Like, "tone it down before you get policied, go contribute next time you're mentioned"
dont worry ill still have some amogus sussy fun-time
but yes i have to tone it down
Not trying to bandwagon, but IMO best scum-tell in long-cycle games is spreading your interactions thin (so no interaction reads) while having few AI communications and real push attempts, at least early on. Freaking out about some RVS read pings heavy here on DE UNVOTE: I support either Joyboy or DE hang, tbh Laplacian wagon feels liek a toneread to me and I don't like it so if either of Joyboy or DE is going to win I'm on that wagon.In post 387, DragonEater70 wrote:
Don't love this thought tbhIn post 376, Laplacian wrote: Getting more sus on Dragoneater. Despite having the most posts by a good 60% margin, their posts are proportionally low-content and fell back to the sheeping post from page 1 when Pav called out his weird vote pattern in 358. Their push for HPE feels legit though and not like a preemptive bus, so I'm feeling 1 scum between DE and HPE.
grasping at strawsIn post 390, DragonEater70 wrote: Like it felt like a bad faith read in an attempt to present an alt wagon rather than a real read
I don't see how town says thisIn post 395, DragonEater70 wrote:
Then actually find and vote scumIn post 393, Laplacian wrote: I'm at E-2, no shit I'm in survival mode. The two leading votes are basically me vs you right now, and I know I'm town while you've been exuding scum vibes, so ofc I'm going to try to get people to vote smart instead of following ssmb's train tunnel to a mislim.
picture situation:
we want to eject the impostor
but we pick a crewmate
crewmate says "no this other guy sus"
I think lap is recognizing the reality of the situation (two wagons competing) whereas DE is using some real terrible reasoning to try and paint NAI stuff as scummy, don't like it
Want to reiterate that I can see a DE/HPE/Joyboy scumteam where DE busses a Thomith/HPE theoretical scumteam, then acts like HPE is clear when Thomith flips town.In post 362, DragonEater70 wrote:
I'll be honest I'm not fully tracking with the Joyboy thing, but the Thomith thing makes senseIn post 359, Flavor Leaf wrote:
Prior to Thomith’s last post, I felt like it was a possible out to stay on their track.In post 355, DragonEater70 wrote:
Explain so I can (finally!) sheep you?In post 352, Flavor Leaf wrote: It’s interesting, because that’s one of the things that make me want to stay on HPE for a bit longer.
It’s early Day 1, why is HPE shutting further pressure down in that way?
In addition, they also seemed to scumread Joyboy earlier. It feels like they were trying to not spread too thin.
I’m not sure it’s a correct reason, but it’s what i felt as soon as it started.
VOTE: HPE
I'm not getting on laplacian wagon so dont bother trying to get me to.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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NahIn post 567, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: do it
I hate intentionally flipping town Day 1
That's Flavor's style
If he asks me to hammer I'll hammer though
Pedit: huh okay that was quick
Yes mr Flavor
VOTE: Lap-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
- Goon
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- Joined: December 9, 2021
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No reason, but not opposed
And all of your arguments are also from the a priori assumption that I'm scum. You can't complain about their lack of neutrality when you can't zoom out either.In post 535, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
If you want to towncase Lap convincingly you're going to have to do it from an outside POV if you want it to convince people outside your own town POV.In post 523, DragonEater70 wrote: She sees me not consider myself possible scum and her first thought is to point it out as possibly damning as a partner with Lap.
I can make cases as though I'm town, as scum, and they can make sense because I'm pretending to be town. If you don't build your case from an outside POV it's going to be less convincing. I am wary of you pushing this towncase as truth because it looks believable, but it relies on an unconfirmed assumption that you're town.
Lazy and bold to say that maf are all people with bigger post counts instead of lurking in the <20 crew of joyboy, gera, and abnegationIn post 536, Flavor Leaf wrote:
I think DE/Lap/FL is a lazy read pairing.In post 529, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
I have yet to receive any indication I'm wrong though, and IIn post 519, DragonEater70 wrote: You are STILL tunneled.amlooking
fake edit: And ofc a ton more discussion appeared as I was going over the last few pages. Posting anyway-
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cw357 Goon
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- Joined: September 26, 2020
laplacian elim is idiotic and i hate it tbh
there's got to be scum on the wagon
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