Open 899 - The Pizza Kids Coalition [Game Over]
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Confession: the other day I had the opportunity to eat pizza and I gave it up for a chicken wrap, because I was tired of pizza.
Yes, I'm a heretic. VOTE: Dragon
Also, HEAL: Klick in the hopes he's town again and we just lick this game in 20 pages.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I only got one PMIn post 14, T3 wrote: I rolled town both times
In a game I modded recently I accidentally replaced 2 players into 1 slot and then left the incorrect Town Roleblocker role PM for the 2nd player sitting in their inbox for 2 hours until I realized my mistake… Luckily they didn’t read it-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I disagree, implo is prob scumIn post 25, Appearance wrote: implo and t3 prob town for now.
T3 is null but has slight town equity if implo is scum due to unlikeliness of TRing own partner alone, IMO.
VOTE: implo-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
"ya" as in "ya Klick is town"?In post 20, Klick wrote:
yaIn post 11, DragonEater70 wrote: Confession: the other day I had the opportunity to eat pizza and I gave it up for a chicken wrap, because I was tired of pizza.
Yes, I'm a heretic. VOTE: Dragon
Also, HEAL: Klick in the hopes he's town again and we just lick this game in 20 pages.It was just a reaction test to get some AI content, but it's pointless now since we already have AI content from people interacting with imp's reads.
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
y?
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
To clarify I faked an SR of Klick ehen I had no read on him at all-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Oh niceIn post 32, Klick wrote:
Because I picked up on this and wanted to decide whether you were doing it because of that reason, or because you were scum unsure of how to interact with me not responding to youIn post 31, DragonEater70 wrote: To clarify I faked an SR of Klick ehen I had no read on him at all
We read each other well, then-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
It's not a fully developed read so I'd rather keep it to myself until it develops.In post 35, DeasVail wrote: why appearance?
Why did you ask about my Appearance read and not about my imp read?-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Actually let me just explain my Appearance read
I thought this:Quickly followed by this:
Was more likely to come from town. Felt like a towny who didn't plan to post a read or anything but had a thought so posted it.In post 25, Appearance wrote: implo and t3 prob town for now.
I also think that having 2 reads is likelier to come from town than from scum, who (like implo did) would be more likely to have a single read.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
It has nothing to do with townreads vs scumreads, I just thought it would be easier for other people to see why Appearance was town compared to why implo was scum, and therefore expected to be questioned about the latter rather than the first.In post 41, DeasVail wrote:
Because of the nature of the setup.In post 40, DragonEater70 wrote:
It's not a fully developed read so I'd rather keep it to myself until it develops.In post 35, DeasVail wrote: why appearance?
Why did you ask about my Appearance read and not about my imp read?
Is it surprising that I would be more focused on your townreads than your scumread/s?
The fact that you didn't question me about the latter read made me think that perhaps you agreed with it (or dismissed it, if scum), so I wanted to ascertain which one it was.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Regardless, I disagree with you about the (implied) idea that we should focus on townreads more than on scumreads. I am of the opinion that it is much easier for scum to fake townreads than scumreads (because the person they are townreading is actually town, most of the time, and they could have good reasons to TR them), and by focusing on townreads we're letting scum blend in much more easily.
In other words, it's very easy to say "I love pizza and I think Klick also loves pizza", and doesn't really lead to any conflict, whereas saying "I think implo secretly loves lasagna" is bound to stir the pot, so to speak.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I'm also surprised by my sudden display of eloquence, something I had forgone in my past games on this site.
Nevertheless, I shall enjoy it. Eloquent writing is one of my favorite things in the world.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Yeah that's what I was meaning.In post 49, Elements wrote: Why don't we not focus on either to begin with and just play normal mafia, then figure stuff out later in the day when we get closer to the deadline-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
In post 48, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
this is just the wrong strategy for the setup, and also if you think like this,In post 46, DragonEater70 wrote: Regardless, I disagree with you about the (implied) idea that we should focus on townreads more than on scumreads. I am of the opinion that it is much easier for scum to fake townreads than scumreads (because the person they are townreading is actually town, most of the time, and they could have good reasons to TR them), and by focusing on townreads we're letting scum blend in much more easily.
In other words, it's very easy to say "I love pizza and I think Klick also loves pizza", and doesn't really lead to any conflict, whereas saying "I think implo secretly loves lasagna" is bound to stir the pot, so to speak.isn't giving out 2 townreads something scum is more likely to do?I don't think this idea that "focusing on townreads let's scum blend in" is your actual opinion if you're giving out a TR to Appearance for giving 2 TRs early in separated posts. Pretty much everything you've posted so far feels like a performance, and to cap it off with this I just think you're trying to throw a wrench in the coalition phase.Not really unless you think scum is more likely to give 2 TR's in regular mafia (which I don't think).
On the other hand this post feels really forced. How would me having scumreads be throwing a wrench in the formation of the coalition? If anything I'm the person working most actively on forming a coalition, considering I have 3 people in my coalition while you only have yourself.
HURT: Kyo, implo-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
HEAL: ElementsIn post 56, Elements wrote:
half my posts are about towning T3?In post 54, Appearance wrote: elements maybe town for not focusing so much on forming a townblock.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Misrep.In post 66, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
This is not the point I'm making. In 46, you say that we should focus scumreads more than townreads because focusing townreads lets scum blend in. At the same time, you say Appearance is town and so far all he'd done was give out 2 unexplained TRs. If you think scum blends in by focusing on TRs, you don't also think that Appearance is town. You're claiming to have one philosophy on how to play the setup that contradicts your reads.In post 52, DragonEater70 wrote:In post 48, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
this is just the wrong strategy for the setup, and also if you think like this,In post 46, DragonEater70 wrote: Regardless, I disagree with you about the (implied) idea that we should focus on townreads more than on scumreads. I am of the opinion that it is much easier for scum to fake townreads than scumreads (because the person they are townreading is actually town, most of the time, and they could have good reasons to TR them), and by focusing on townreads we're letting scum blend in much more easily.
In other words, it's very easy to say "I love pizza and I think Klick also loves pizza", and doesn't really lead to any conflict, whereas saying "I think implo secretly loves lasagna" is bound to stir the pot, so to speak.isn't giving out 2 townreads something scum is more likely to do?I don't think this idea that "focusing on townreads let's scum blend in" is your actual opinion if you're giving out a TR to Appearance for giving 2 TRs early in separated posts. Pretty much everything you've posted so far feels like a performance, and to cap it off with this I just think you're trying to throw a wrench in the coalition phase.Not really unless you think scum is more likely to give 2 TR's in regular mafia (which I don't think).
On the other hand this post feels really forced.How would me having scumreads be throwing a wrench in the formation of the coalition?If anything I'm the person working most actively on forming a coalition, considering I have 3 people in my coalition while you only have yourself.
HURT: Kyo, implo
In post 42, DragonEater70 wrote: Actually let me just explain my Appearance read
I thought this:Quickly followed by this:
Was more likely to come from town. Felt like a towny who didn't plan to post a read or anything but had a thought so posted it.In post 25, Appearance wrote: implo and t3 prob town for now.
I also think that having 2 reads is likelier to come from town than from scum, who (like implo did) would be more likely to have a single read.
I merely said we shouldn't have our entire focus on TR's, like DeasVail seemed to insinuate.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
In post 46, DragonEater70 wrote: Regardless,I disagree with you about the (implied) idea that we should focus on townreads more than on scumreads.I am of the opinion that it is much easier for scum to fake townreads than scumreads (because the person they are townreading is actually town, most of the time, and they could have good reasons to TR them), and by focusing on townreads we're letting scum blend in much more easily.
In other words, it's very easy to say "I love pizza and I think Klick also loves pizza", and doesn't really lead to any conflict, whereas saying "I think implo secretly loves lasagna" is bound to stir the pot, so to speak.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Why do you TR kyo?In post 69, DeasVail wrote: ssbm, elements, t3 and appearance are all provisional townreads for me-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I love how you say youused tosay "this is more likely to come from town than scum" in the past, and immediately follow it with "I think this posting is more likely to come from town than scum" (not saying this is alignment indicative, just find it funny). As a note, yeah that's an early game read, not a lategame read.
Also Klick can you help me out here? I think you should understand why I would consider a fast-paced, TvT-heavy game start to be superior to a slow and "wow everyone is so towny" game start, considering how well our last TvT-heavy game went. And this game I feel everyone is just TRing other people and trying not to step on anybody's toes (except me, Kyo, and you to a degree). Which makes it very hard to read people.
So if you can help me push this game into TvT (or even TvS) territory that'd help.
Pedit: to me, making it out like that philosophy should dictate my every thought is a "misrep" of my intentions, so that's what I call it.
Also, what do you make of DV's post being the way it is?-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Goodnight, I will await your answer tomorrow.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Oh, you think saw? Curious if you have the same solve as me then or you are referring to something else.In post 83, Klick wrote: Besides, the game is nearly won anyway even without that-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
K game solved
HEAL: Klick, Appearance, Dragon, Elements, Ydra
Fun fact, I had this as a meme solve before Ydra or Elements even posted because I'm that smart.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Though tbh Ydra could in theory be scum so I urge you all not to blindly sheep me before we do some more solving and stuff-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Actually nah maybe I'm tring something NAI
HURT: Ydra
I want to ask some questions first.
Pedit: There's no depth, that's why I'm unvoting. Questions will come in a few minutes to sort you.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Okay so
I actually have questions for DV as well. Can you explain the implo read and the Ydra read?
Now for Ydra:
1. Do you disagree with my read on Appearance? Why?
2. From 1 to 10, how surface level would you say your read is implo / how confident are you about that read? I feel implo's play reads as pockety towards me and his TR of T3 feels like an afterthought of "I should probably TR someone to look good" rather than a real thought.
Pedit: wow DV answered my question before I asked.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
As for my read on Klick, he feels like he's not trying to be TR'd at all (unless he is playing a game of "let's pocket Dragon and get null'd by everybody else", which if it is the case then I wish him luck with that since idk how far it will get him), and I think that makes him pretty towny.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I sometimes post before I think. This tends to result in weird sequences.In post 99, Ydrasse wrote: this is a bizarre sequence-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
In post 76, implosion wrote: DragonEater has a certain aesthetic to his reasoning that reminds me of myself in a way, probably moreso in the past than now. The idea of viewing x thing as more/less likely to come from scum (i.e. reading 1 vs 2 people in an opening post) in such a way that really looks like splitting hairs unless you're the one making the claim. I think when I would post that way I probably tended to do it more as town than scum because it's a lot easier to naturally come up with a sort of hairbrained theory when you're genuinely thinking about the game. It's the kind of read I'd post in the first few pages and then go back and look at weeks later while rereading myself (as town) and genuinely have no idea how I came to the conclusion in the read. I think his first couple pages are fairly towny.In post 77, implosion wrote:
I don't like this post/line of logic. It feels less like a misrep (i actually don't like dragoneater calling it a misrep) and more like it's reductive, like if Dragoneater claims to have a particular philosophy that he mentioned then that philosophy doesn't necessarily underrun everything that he thinks. It's lacking in consideration imo as a reason to scumread dragoneater (and it does look like kyouko is scumreading dragoneater).In post 66, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:This is not the point I'm making. In 46, you say that we should focus scumreads more than townreads because focusing townreads lets scum blend in. At the same time, you say Appearance is town and so far all he'd done was give out 2 unexplained TRs. If you think scum blends in by focusing on TRs, you don't also think that Appearance is town. You're claiming to have one philosophy on how to play the setup that contradicts your reads.
All of this. I might be confbiasing, but I feel the tone of the TR on me isn't very genuine. I am not sure as town implo would really have this read on me. I am also not a fan of implo "not liking" things I did but TRing me anyway - it feels like trying too hard to add subtlety to the read that isn't really there.In post 81, implosion wrote:
i mean yeah i kind of realized i was doing this. the difference now is that iIn post 80, DragonEater70 wrote: I love how you say you used to say "this is more likely to come from town than scum" in the past, and immediately follow it with "I think this posting is more likely to come from town than scum" (not saying this is alignment indicative, just find it funny). As a note, yeah that's an early game read, not a lategame read.thinki usually try to draw some concrete line of reasoning between the thing i'm analyzing and how i think someone would view the game as town or scum, 79 is a really good example because i have a very specific reason for thinking that post is extremely town, it's not just a hunch (and I'm not saying your reads are just hunches if you are town, but to me they sort of look the same as hunches without access to how you're actually thinking about the game, if that makes sense).
This is a good question and I think the answer is that i'm not really sure and i should probably go to sleep.In post 80, DragonEater70 wrote: Also, what do you make of DV's post being the way it is?
And also it feels this sequence of posts has an underlying message of like "hey Dragon, we're similar and I should be your mentor", sort of.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
implo is trying very hard to be TR'd.In post 106, Ydrasse wrote:
who do you think is trying to do that then?In post 102, DragonEater70 wrote: As for my read on Klick, he feels like he's not trying to be TR'd at all (unless he is playing a game of "let's pocket Dragon and get null'd by everybody else", which if it is the case then I wish him luck with that since idk how far it will get him), and I think that makes him pretty towny.
he hasn’t posted a lot so i struggle to see how someone can very comfortably make that call i guess. there’s a part of me that thinks he could be playing a clever wolf game based on how he treated you by like… kind of uno carding you. i don’t know how likely this is but i felt it was possible, and if he was doing something like that he’s now got someone in his court without much loss. with what looks like recent history it makes sense to me that he might want to capitalize on that when presented with the chance, etc-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Yes, I am aware that Klick could be pocketing me potentially - I just don't think it's likely. I think as the game continues his alignment will be easier to discern, though.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
"I'll give an early read so I'll look towny"In post 19, implosion wrote: I’m flying back from holiday stuff tomorrow and should be pretty around generally after that.
T3 townish.
Writes a very detailed take full of "nuance" or whatever, trying to give the impression that he is putting a lot of thought into the game.In post 76, implosion wrote: DragonEater has a certain aesthetic to his reasoning that reminds me of myself in a way, probably moreso in the past than now. The idea of viewing x thing as more/less likely to come from scum (i.e. reading 1 vs 2 people in an opening post) in such a way that really looks like splitting hairs unless you're the one making the claim. I think when I would post that way I probably tended to do it more as town than scum because it's a lot easier to naturally come up with a sort of hairbrained theory when you're genuinely thinking about the game. It's the kind of read I'd post in the first few pages and then go back and look at weeks later while rereading myself (as town) and genuinely have no idea how I came to the conclusion in the read. I think his first couple pages are fairly towny.
Again, there's a feeling like he is putting a lot of nuance in this post to look good. I have no idea what purpose this post serves other than putting on a show of having nuanced takes.In post 77, implosion wrote:
I don't like this post/line of logic. It feels less like a misrep (i actually don't like dragoneater calling it a misrep) and more like it's reductive, like if Dragoneater claims to have a particular philosophy that he mentioned then that philosophy doesn't necessarily underrun everything that he thinks. It's lacking in consideration imo as a reason to scumread dragoneater (and it does look like kyouko is scumreading dragoneater).In post 66, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:This is not the point I'm making. In 46, you say that we should focus scumreads more than townreads because focusing townreads lets scum blend in. At the same time, you say Appearance is town and so far all he'd done was give out 2 unexplained TRs. If you think scum blends in by focusing on TRs, you don't also think that Appearance is town. You're claiming to have one philosophy on how to play the setup that contradicts your reads.
Tries to look like he has meaningful thoughts or like he's uninformed or something by calling this "interesting". When I ask him of he thinks it means anything he doesn't even have an answer. So this post is just there to look good, yet again.In post 78, implosion wrote:
This is an interesting post, with me and Ydrasse having posted like once each at this point this is townreading everyone who has posted a fair amount except dragoneater and klick. I get townvibes from klick as well.In post 69, DeasVail wrote: ssbm, elements, t3 and appearance are all provisional townreads for me-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Last one is not damning by itself, but it looks in combination with the others.
19 - this is the least damning post, but out of everyone in RVS, it just pinged me as trying to be townread. It's definitely not impossible that a towny would do that, I just think it's VERY likely that a scummie would do that. Can't really explain my thought process here without overexplaining it to the point it almost becomes meaningless, so I totally understand if you choose to disregard it, but just know there is a thought process there.
Middle two - like obviously I don't disagree with him calling me town, but I just feel like the read is fake (as I said earlier), and even if it could be true he is using way too many words to describe it. I also don't disagree with not liking Kyo's line of logic, but I disagree with the rest of the post and think it's just there to add nuance that isn't really necessary.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Here's an example of a completely overexplained and meaningless thought process from a completed game, if you are curious what I mean by that:
viewtopic.php?p=14018141#p14018141-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Oh goodIn post 119, Klick wrote:
No I think Ydrasse actually is just townIn post 95, DragonEater70 wrote: Though tbh Ydra could in theory be scum so I urge you all not to blindly sheep me before we do some more solving and stuff
So Ihavesolved the game on page 2. Nice.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
What are your thoughts? On any slot other than Ydra.In post 120, Klick wrote: I want to understand what your thoughts are about Dragon atm.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I haven't actively checked, but I've read a scum game of his before and everything he's posted so far is within his scum range and fits my mental model of scum!implo.In post 118, Ydrasse wrote: have you checked that to how implosion normally plays?
Sort of edit:
Took a while to find because apparently he hasn't played a lot this year, but I just skimmed his iso in a town game of his, and I don't feel the same overly-nuanced tone in that town game at all.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Klick, are you ignoring my questions to you on purpose?-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Alright game solved for realsies
HEAL: Klick, Appearance, Dragon, Elements, DeasVail
Now I just lurk until DV and Klick figure out this is the correct solve and then we just convince two others.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I will be answering things addressed to me later on today, but first I want to express a general complaint. This is addressed at everyone:
I've given this game a 36 hour break, and I come back to maybe a single page worth of posts, more than half of which is people saying stuff into the air (most of which if we ignore implo's posts which I haven't fully read yet, is either stating TR's or asking about TR's) and not really moving the game along. THIS is what I was getting at as being anti-town earlier, NOT "having more townreads than scumreads".
I do not like this game state at all. Elements asked me who would I think I'm wrong about if my coalition fails, and currently I have NO IDEA because none of my reads are sufficiently evolved. How can I read anyone with no ACTION? I can't, and I bet you can't either.
What I want is a dynamic gamestate, like in this game or this second game or this other game (I chose those because they had a very strong sense of "something is actually happening" in the first three pages, and rhe conversationg goes somewhere). But instead there's just people townreading each other with almost no analysis and not even pushing who they think is scum, as scum.
You might think I'm just whining here, but what I actually want is to ask you people to bring this game to life and case people (idc for which alignment you case them) and hurt/heal people and react to stuff happening so we have a dynamic game and not just a pile of reads and questions about reads.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
That's what I feel is lackingIn post 168, Klick wrote: Conflict isn't the friction that causes readable gamestates
Genuine engagement is
I'll answer what you want though:
Feel pretty okay on you and VD, I would like you to sell me on Ydra though.
Like I think in a vacuum her posting is towny, BUT Ithinkfor her specifically it's NAI? I haven't ever played with her but I read a scum game and a town game of hers and couldn't really tell the difference.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Of the others I'm most confident about implo, and don't really have any reason to TR either T3 or Kyo so either could be scum.In post 143, Elements wrote:
Any thoughts on who the reds in the other 4 are?In post 133, DragonEater70 wrote: Alright game solved for realsies
HEAL: Klick, Appearance, Dragon, Elements, DeasVail
Now I just lurk until DV and Klick figure out this is the correct solve and then we just convince two others.
Or if you're wrong who you think you are most likely to be wrong about?
You are the one I'm most confident is town, tbh. I feel Klick is similar to his town game in a lot of ways, but in his recent scum game he was also very similar to his town game so I don't think it's impossible for him to fake this. VD is mainly a gutread at this point.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Which post do you want to locktown Elements for? The 7 players thing?In post 153, implosion wrote: i'm going to stop talking about that now
i think Elements/Klick/Ydrasse/Dragoneater/T3 is a pretty good pool of town. Elements I think actually should just be locktown for that one post, it's like a soft townslip. ssbm might actually just be town for healing them because I don't really know what scum gets out of that in this gamestate. Someone was saying they felt they wanted to re-evaluate T3 but idk. I'll probably do that at some point but shrug. I guess this leaves DV and Appearance and I don't really get why DV is being townread. I think I get why some people have called Appearance town but don't really see it.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I totally understand your annoyance if you are town, but you gotta realize I got to get the game moving and currently that's the only thread I can pull on, and IIn post 156, implosion wrote:
I mean, Ydrasse literally asked Dragoneater if he'd checked if what he was seeing wasn't just how I usually played. Honestly I'm mostly annoyed at the way Dragoneater is acting toward me. I have been busy with other things but my first spate of posting was me with a decent amount of time to look at/think about things iirc so it's probably fairly representative of my typical gameplayIn post 154, DeasVail wrote: A few of your posts before this point have given the impression of not having enough time for the game/being busy with other things. So I’m interested in why your play before this point would be representative of your usual gameplay to the point where people’s experience with you would be so relevant.
To me, it feels premature to conclude that certain people townread/scumread you because of their experience with you.willabuse it as much as I can to move the game forward.
I'm not really impressed with your self meta and general reaction to my push. If you are town and want to help me sort you, can you answer these questions please:
Who do you think has acted in an actual scummy way or did things you can point out as scum-motivated, other than just not being out of their scumrange like DV?
What do you think of Kyo's recent posting?
What do you think about my interaction with Klick and our reads on each other? (I'm interested both in your thoughts about his read on me, and my read on him).
These questions aren't busywork btw, they will definitely help me sort you.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Oh soIn post 169, implosion wrote:
To elaborate because on rereading your post this is probably very unclear: the rhetorical difference that concerns me is that DragonEater's post is more dismissive in a sense. He essentially is saying "this is the solve, deal with it" where you're trying to actively work with your townreads (which is not a concerning pattern of gamestate to me).In post 165, implosion wrote:
Your post is rhetorically very different and also I think your group has a much higher chance of being all townIn post 163, Klick wrote: @implosion: Then what do you think of my post which was basically the same thing?
It was a joke mainly
I just wanted to take a break from the game and see what DV and Klick cooked up (which actually worked)-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I am nit even saying you are wolfy
I am saying your posting is towny in a vacuum but probably NAI based on your specific scum game
Meaning that it's like null town
Also I should probably HURT: Appearance since they are also only null town-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Are you kidding? I literally lurked half of BTXVIII (or whatever the number was, the one with the jesters) because I hated the gamestate where people were only trying to find town and felt I couldn't develop my reads properly.In post 184, T3 wrote: I doubt you'd struggle to find reads if people aren't pushing each other but maybe-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
So thing is, that's exactly the problem.In post 187, Ydrasse wrote: okay but what i’m saying is you’re interpreting my posting this game based on a separate game that isn’t this one poorly and i think you would have better results in this one if you thought about my posts from the angle of “is there a wolfy agenda or motivation so far and if so what”
I've read Swinger's Hall where you were scum, and I didn't feel any of your posts had a wolfy agenda. Therefore I am making a deduction that your playstyle as a wolf doesn't look like you have an agenda, and therefore I am arriving at the conclusion that you not seeming to have a wolfy agenda is NAI, and that I need other ways to sort you.
Now what I would appreciate is if Klick, who correctly scumread you that game, explained to me what he saw that game that he isn't seeing here, or what is he seeing here that he didn't see that game, and then I could evaluate if there is indeed something that's objectively town indicative for you.
I AM leaning town on you FWIW.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
In post 191, Elements wrote: Dragon were you town in that game with Keylaga?
Why?In post 192, DragonEater70 wrote:Yep-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Appearance can you talk to me about your reads a bit
Just in general, why do you TR the people in your coal and who do you think is scummy-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I've written a wallpost on why implo's response to me is scummy but tbh I don't feel like posting it.
I mean, like Klick said, we're likely winning the game soon anyway. And I feel posting it would just lead to more wallposting and fatigue.
If someone really feels like reading a huge wallpost, let me know and I'll post it
For now the TLDR is that I feel implo tried to pocket me earlier, failed, and is now trying to discredit me.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Oh also the way he's pointing out why my sorting of him is apparently in bad faith and saying he's "questioning" his read on me, but not actually actively scumreading me (with a coalition unvote), makes me feel like he's ready to backtrack on the scumread and go back to trying to pocket me if I ever townread him / give up the SR.
Anyway Klick
I understand what you said about Ydra, let me have a quick reread of her and I'll tell you what I think about her as a coalition member.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Sorry, I somehow managed to get sidetracked from this TWICE
What are you thinking about Klick right now?In post 106, Ydrasse wrote:
who do you think is trying to do that then?DragonEater70 wrote: As for my read on Klick, he feels like he's not trying to be TR'd at all (unless he is playing a game of "let's pocket Dragon and get null'd by everybody else", which if it is the case then I wish him luck with that since idk how far it will get him), and I think that makes him pretty towny.
he hasn’t posted a lot so i struggle to see how someone can very comfortably make that call i guess. there’s a part of me that thinks he could be playing a clever wolf game based on how he treated you by like… kind of uno carding you. i don’t know how likely this is but i felt it was possible, and if he was doing something like that he’s now got someone in his court without much loss. with what looks like recent history it makes sense to me that he might want to capitalize on that when presented with the chance, etc-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Anyway Klick
Having read Prism's last modded game, I have to conclude that WIM is probably NAI for Ydra? Considering she seemed to be low WIM as town in that one.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7789
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2