Mini Normal 2324: Fake Fantasy Facts | Postgame

[lucca261]

mostly relief macho

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

Oh I just noticed on my little note with reminders of flips and replacements that Alianna is now Enchant
VOTE: Enchant

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

Pre edit: I am trying to gauge other's opinions on you(like asking Lucca earlier), like I said I had you as solidly town earlier but am doubting that read now.

^^The pre Edit was directed at Clap, if not clear

It seems like you're admitting to Margot's charge that you're fishing for support for a wagon rather than just pushing, but acting like that's a townie thing to do. It isn't, particularly on D1.

UNVOTE:

Yikes

My Brother was scumsiding

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

Okay here we go.

I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.

On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.

I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.

this is surface level analysis
Regardless of my alignment I think calling my townblock out is an easy thing to do as scum. This seems less like a real thought process and more like reflexively giving townpoints to player who’ve criticized me.

I will have you know that all my thoughts are perfectly real, thank you very much. Sorry if they don’t live up to your standards.

So here’s the thing, I believe you’re right. It is an easy play for Scum to call out Townblocks. But it’s just as easy for Scum to get the idea of forming an early town block. And the latter would be way more problematic so that’s what I am more concerned with right now.

So what do you make of that?

MUCHO.

[DeltaWave]

It is notable that this post is more likely to be written from memory because it is not organized in any particular way except that the slots with the least detail are last because DW could not remember them. For example this is not ordered from town to scum with explanations added in after the sorting is done. This is not copy and pasted from the playerlist order.

I haven't finished reading the whole post yet - I don't really like that the Gamma read subtly downplays the Margot wagon, but I am absolutely CONFIRMATION BIASED and FOCUSED on anything pertaining to Margot as I'm reading.

I opened up the Activity Overview and sorted by post count, starting with the highest post count. Then I went through each ISO individually and wrote my summary of each one. It's not sorted by town -> scum or any other means

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

He's voting you...

VOTE: margot

When it seems like the town is lost, tripping over each other to get a hold of Gamma's legs and toss her from the ring, the SHINING KNIGHT rips through the chaos to save the day

[Prince of Paterson]

Town:

Naerys

Townreads:

Gypyx

Townleans:

Laplacian
Upwards

I'm not voting any of those right now.

Alianna I found suspicious early for reasons that others have already talked about. Her posts seemed too manufactured and like she was forcing herself to generate content. Particularly 42, the thought process on display doesn't feel naturally developed, so it reads as performative. She disappeared so it's hard to feel confident in a read here.

Hu Tao and lucca are players that I'm conflicted on. For most of my time reading I thought Hu Tao was scum, but the way her reads developed over time made me start to doubt that, because she may just be on the right track. lucca I liked early and has what feels like a good process to me but I don't like the results that he ends up at, and some of them have felt like they may have an agenda. My gut feeling right now is that one of these two is mafia. I'll elaborate more on why if I find the read persists.

Delta and Claptastic are who I found to be most suspicious but I don't believe they're scum together. I haven't read any the replacement's posts yet, but Claptastic's aggressive posturing felt like it was coming from an informed place to me, especially surrounding the Margot wagon and pushing people onto Gamma. I didn't like Delta's readlist in 264, and 370 didn't feel like the town variety of defensiveness.

I want to review a bit more before deciding where I'd like to look first for today. I don't have one scumread that stands out above the rest, and my pool is too wide, so I'd like to try to narrow it.

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

We have a whole week left for the day. Going into night when we have like, four or five people who haven't really contributed is not pro-town.

This looks like a post that scum does to contribute to the conversation without actually saying anything.

VOTE: Delta

Yes it's LAMIST, but somebody needed to say it. DeltaWave is not on Gamma yet here - since Gamma is the counter to tiny mafia MargotRosa, I think some credit may be due. I'll see how she ends up helping us throw Gamma out of the ring

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

Upwards - towny
Naerys - towny
Claptastik - towny
lucca261 -??
FuDuzn - town
Gamma Emerald - leaning sus
Laplacian - towny
Zebedee - ???
Gypyx - Leaning slightly towny
MargotRosa - scummy
DeltaWave - scummy
Alianna - ????

This is where I am right now. I usually don't have this many reads to start so something could be wrong.

A playerlist-ordered reads list, EH!?

[Gypyx]

Town:

Naerys

Townreads:

Gypyx

Townleans:

Laplacian
Upwards

I'm not voting any of those right now.

Alianna I found suspicious early for reasons that others have already talked about. Her posts seemed too manufactured and like she was forcing herself to generate content. Particularly 42, the thought process on display doesn't feel naturally developed, so it reads as performative. She disappeared so it's hard to feel confident in a read here.

Hu Tao and lucca are players that I'm conflicted on. For most of my time reading I thought Hu Tao was scum, but the way her reads developed over time made me start to doubt that, because she may just be on the right track. lucca I liked early and has what feels like a good process to me but I don't like the results that he ends up at, and some of them have felt like they may have an agenda. My gut feeling right now is that one of these two is mafia. I'll elaborate more on why if I find the read persists.

Delta and Claptastic are who I found to be most suspicious but I don't believe they're scum together. I haven't read any the replacement's posts yet, but Claptastic's aggressive posturing felt like it was coming from an informed place to me, especially surrounding the Margot wagon and pushing people onto Gamma. I didn't like Delta's readlist in 264, and 370 didn't feel like the town variety of defensiveness.

I want to review a bit more before deciding where I'd like to look first for today. I don't have one scumread that stands out above the rest, and my pool is too wide, so I'd like to try to narrow it.

Could you detail your upwards read pretty please? Think an alternate perspective would help me see if i'm tunneling or something

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

Spoiler: tiny mafia LIES

I apologise in advance for the super long psot, but I've finally put together my mid-D1 reads.

Town Lean

Gamma Emerald

The town block conversation has been playing out already, so I'm not going to bother adding to it, other than to say I think 298 does a good job of explaining why the block was made in the first place. I get so lost in RVS, and the plan to get out of RVS with a solid basis from which to make reads from others' responses to it is really intelligent.

I think 255 is town indicative, as I just don't think scum are that obvious about what they are doing and why. I also think responses to finger pointing are too reasonable to be from scum, and indicate a level of confidence in the town motivation of play up to this point.

Gypyx

Gypyx's posting is an enigma, which, given her troll avatar, I imagine and hope she would take as a compliment. I like completely remaking my reads list on players from scratch, and it's very amusing to me that I've written scum lean? and town lean? for her on separate pages. At any rate 74 and 89 look town motivated to me right now. I like the fact that she is so clearly committed to moving the game forward. 106 and 111 in particular feel like posts made by someone who is considering not just which players might be scum, but also which players are most efficient to go after from a scum hunting perspective, which looks town motivated to me. I reeeaaaally like 206 for similar reasons, and I agree a lot with 340, in that votes for GE felt opportunistic.

lucca261

My first impression with this slot was that I felt very familiar rn with the lack of self confidence in 173, which makes me think town. I also just think his reaction to my posts about FD are really sensible and reasoned and, consequently, town aligned. 362 is reasonable and well thought out in particular. I like it when people agree with me, but I love it when they only sort of agree with me, because it looks like someone who is actually trying to work this out, as opposed to jumping on other people's logic, which is ultimately a town move.

Null

Alianna

Going to wait until she is replaced to get a clearer read. Null as I do have some reads that I feel can be disregarded given that they've hbad to drop out for whatever reason, and said reason may have influenced the way they are posting.

Claptastik

Initial gameplay looks similar to town play in the past. See, for contrast, the only scum game of theirs I could find, in which they actively engage with RVS: viewtopic.php?p=13832220#p13832220. Possibly NAI, as it was their first game, but seemed worth mentioning.

I personally don't love their motivations for voting for GE. This may just be play related, but it's hard to tell as from what I've seen, this is by far and a way the most engagement they've had with a game on this site. Did a quick count, and he's played 4 games (one ongoing, but he's dead). Law of averages, you'd expect this game to account for roughly 20% of posts in total, and this game already accounts for 15%, despite our being not even halfway through day 1. I don't know that this is alignment indicative in of itself, but it definitely makes reading his meta difficult. He's definitely hunting, I'm just having trouble working out definitively whether its scum or scummy town.

DeltaWave

Difficult to read because of low post count, which is ironic given how often low post count comes up in 264. I disagree with a lot of those reads, but that's NAI right now. It would certainly be unfair of me to place them lower than Clap though, and I feel comfortable keeping them Null.

Laplacian

Limited post count makes a read difficult. The comment in 119 about Delta not responding to the RVS vote twigged me a little. If I didn't already know I was town, 228 looks like TMI. Good luck to your wife with the dance championships <3

Hu Tao

For whatever reason, probably the first few posts, I think I had very incorrectly assumed this slot was new, but I've learned better now. 313 felt like an intentional misread, though that could just be defensiveness talking. I do think a lot of their posts are very mechanical, and it's hard to get anything definitive or clear from them. Long and short of it is that they've made a lot of short posts with reads that are reasonable, but nothing that really jumps out at me as being pro-town or super engaged in town aligned scum-hunting. Closest null slot to being placed in scum leaning at present.

Naerys

Very little content. I really like 339, even though I disagree with the Gamma read, but there's not enough to be clearly alignment indicative.

Upwards

A slot that's gotten a lot of heat. I didn't find 81 abnormal at all. Clearly nervous, but I too can remember feeling nervous as town and desperately not wanting to get eliminated first day, even if that attitude is not necessarily the most helpful for town. I think there's definitely an element of defensiveness going on (rf. 121 306 356). Read on their scum hunting is basically similar to Naerys, with the added caveat that it feels mostly externally prompted. Slot to keep an eye on, but null for the moment.

Scum lean

FuDuzn

My mind hasn't really changed since the last few posts I made on this slot. Realistically, their responses to it just solidified my earlier thoughts.

Zebedee

Again, little content, but given the complete lack of hunting, or argumentation, this slot honestly feels like new scum at a loss for how to even pretend to scum hunt. Slight scum lean for now.

Last time tiny mafia MR was a tiny mafia member she also made a big fancy reads list like this to FOOL the DOMINANT town:
viewtopic.php?p=13006521#p13006521

In this list she put her tiny mafia friends, salsabil faria and innocentvillager, right smack in the middle of her nulls (3rd of 5) and her scumreads (2nd of 3)

If we think she'd do it again that means LAPLACIAN and I guess ZEBEDEE are her tiny mafia COHORTS

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

Let's skip a step, since you're going to reply doubting that your "case" is factually incorrect:

Lucca - I already explained why lucca is in my scumpool and the ISO didn't really change that. In fact, I find it concerning that Lucca is potentially misrepping Upwards in Post 176. "Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post." Upwards didn't say that he read a 100 person game, just that he heard about it. So it's a bit unfair to assume (possibly wrongly) that he actually read it. It seemed like a really thin excuse to go after someone who (if town) is a good ME target. This is the strongest scumread that Lucca has had thus far, and he walked it back later. There are so many more interesting things to talk about in this game other than some mafia game that inspired Upwards to join. It's just odd.

----------------------------

Spoiler:

I already explained why lucca is in my scumpool and the ISO didn't really change that. In fact, I find it concerning that Lucca is potentially misrepping Upwards in Post 176. [...] So it's a bit unfair to assume (possibly wrongly) that he actually read it.

He has read it.

@299

.

Factually incorrect.

----------------------------

Spoiler:

This is the strongest scumread that Lucca has had thus far, and he walked it back later.

The only quote in my whole ISO where I express any possible retraction of my Upwards read:

"Keep in mind this is a early D1 read, so it's not final or decisive in any way. But it's something that pinged me early game."

Is this a retraction? It's a weak read, as we are on early D1. There is no post where I express any retraction over the read.

Factually incorrect.

----------------------------

Spoiler:

There are so many more interesting things to talk about in this game other than some mafia game that inspired Upwards to join. It's just odd.

Sure. I agree. As I have only talked about the other maf game on 2 of my 28 posts. Counting this one.
So let's broaden the scope.
I have only talked about Upwards (directly or indirectly) on 10/28 posts. Counting the RVS vote on @71, the one sentence on @180, referencing him correcting your mistake on @360, the subsequent EBWOP on @363 and this one.

In contrast, I have been the direct focus of four of your posts. You have 12 in total.
@155
@158
@264
@371

So, Delta: there are more interesting things to talk about on this game than my RVS vote and factually incorrect scum points against me based on interactions with Upwards.

----------------------------

How's that for a defense?

SPICY! PASSIONATE! MAGNIFICENT!

[DeltaWave]

I didn't like Delta's readlist in 264, and 370 didn't feel like the town variety of defensiveness.

Oh sure. Is it because I shaded your predecessor before the day was over? In case anyone forgot, Zebedee sat out the whole Gamma/Margot competing wagons by parking his vote on me with zero explanation given and after only mentioning me a grand total of twice in the entire game at that point. (Once to say that I didn't produce content until I was "shoved", which isn't true, and then to make claim that Clap was scum with me for some reason.)

Or in other words,

it sounds like Zebedee was trying to find a reason to sit on the sidelines of the whole controversy. Didn't want to be on the Gamma wagon and didn't want to bus Margot at the same time.

Still need to fully catch up because I'm between meetings but this seems pretty good for now. Definitely not voting Clap/Macho Man today. I thought Hu was scum at first but I'm warming up to Hu!Town.

VOTE: Prince of Patterson

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

VOTE: Delta

just seems right to me, lots of fluff going on in her posts.

I feel like if scum, ZBD might go for Gamma instead on survival instinct after seeing suspicion coming his way during his catchup. There's very little focus on Gamma - he asks Clap about his Gamma read just before that, but it's around the same time he seems to be suspecting Clap and Delta of being "pally" - probably thinks these 2 are S/S or T/S. Given he's looking to sort Clap, and how the rest of the game is moving, I just don't get agenda vibes here

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

Spoiler:

The real first thing that caught my eye was the chat around Upwards first post. Post 91.

When I first read it, I thought ok, seems a legit thing to spout. In fact, I thought about going a little more into detail in my first post and then thought, well if they really want to know about me they will ask.
But then Uppers gets some incoming small rounds fire about it. So, I thought I would look at the post again. So, I ask’s myself if I was scum/bad Uppers why would I start the way he did. Well all I can think about is Uppers would want to sound sincere and open and seem townie. Then if he was Townie/good Uppers then probably yes he just wanted to let everyone know he was open to being approached.

But then you look at the content, which is obviously thought out and wonder why think it out. Why not just write what is in your head.? On the flip side there is a counter to this, and I don’t know maybe Uppers is super concerned about their grammar etc.

First shots fired come in from Hu, and what I see with Hu from reading her posts so far is she is aggressive. Her point she makes when voting goes in line with “Uppers would want to sound sincere and open and seem townie”, in fact yes as she says 'Forced'. Post 101. The next real shots fired at Uppers is Lucca in Post 176, I sorta feel that he is just typing as he is reading as the posts he is replying to seem to run in order. But then he skips a load of posts in post 177 he is picking up on Lalacian’s post 116 then in post 177 he skips to FuDuzn’s post 175. But then in his catch up post he does show reads of 114 and 149. Actually he raised my eyebrow in 149. I was really taken that I was an apprentice on a “Town Block”, but then I think does points out a good thing to chew on. And I see reading ahead that this town block is picked up on.

At first I thought Lucca was being opportunistic and skipping thorough the thread, and like my read of Hu he is aggressive. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing Inbeing aggressive. I suppose as scums you might not want to stand out and so could play a quiet game, and as a townie you are aggressive because you have no reason not to be?

What is interesting is that Uppers seems unphased by the attention he is getting. In Post 121 and again in post 193 Uppers is not concerned for which seems pretty weird, as a newbie I think I would panic if the votes or pressure fell on me like that for my opening post. What is also catching my eye is Gypx is spending a lot of time talking with Uppers though. And seemingly advising Uppers.

on the other hand I did think this post was very IIOA but that could be from English as a second language combined with newness to mafia

[DeltaWave]

It's conspicuous that Zebedee had quite a bit to criticize about Margot but didn't vote for her. Instead he voted for a go-nowhere wagon and didn't provide a reason.

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

I think Alianna is townish after combing all her posts
The combo of 157 + 161 stand out because I liked her going back to add more thoughts on the same post: I have a tell that scum like to condense their content and limit their thread availability so the opposite of that I feel like should be a towntell, and posting new ideas as you get them definitely falls into both not condensing content and making yourself more available to be interacted with.

I like your idea but girl you missed here - 157 and 161 are not replies to the same post - and just in case you got post numbers wrong I checked Alianna's ISO around there and this doesn't happen

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

The FD vote has little to do with the Gamma wagon. Zeb's interaction with the Gamma wagon does though.

So what reeks about the gamma wagon? If FD and Zeb are scum, that means the gamma wagon is at least 4/5 town.

I meant that there was scum on it somewhere. I'm certainly not ruling out anyone who was on the wagon, but I definitely have a scum lean on Zeb, and I see FD as the kind of player who wouldn't eagerly jump onto a miselim especially immediately after an intense line of questioning. Will have to check the back catalogue at some point to be sure tho

For Laplacian when they come back, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the wagon

Oh look, it's middle of the nullreads Laplacian and the unflipped scumread Zeb

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

UNVOTE:

[Hu Tao]

I was going to unvote if FD didn’t anyway since I wanted to see Margot’s reaction to the wagon, not the blitz elim

this might be what tiny mafia was banking on - Hu Tao was active during the wagon and enticed someone to E-1 it so she could hammer. I think this is big town energy

I'm glad someone saw what I was doing there.

[Hu Tao]

Votecount 1.03

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2024-01-14 01:13:22).

Votecount

MargotRosa

(5):

Claptastik

,

Gypyx

, Gamma Emerald, Laplacian, FuDuzn

Upwards (2):

lucca261, Hu Tao

Gamma Emerald (1):

Alianna

Alianna (1):

Naerys

Not Voting (4):

Upwards, Zebedee, DeltaWave, MargotRosa

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to send someone on the fast route to the afterlife.

flavor

Dragon Fact #4:

While often depicted as cruel and beastly monsters, dragons are actually highly intelligent, and have a better grasp on science than most humans. In fact, dragons invented modern computers!

Votecount 1.12

Combined Mod ISO.

Votecount

Gamma Emerald (7):

Alianna,

Claptastik

,

Upwards

, Naerys,

DeltaWave

, Laplacian, Gamma Emerald

DeltaWave (2):

Hu Tao, Zebedee

Laplacian (2):

lucca261, Gypyx

MargotRosa (1):

FuDuzn

FuDuzn (1):

MargotRosa

Not Voting (0).

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to send someone on the fast route to the afterlife.

Flavor

Dragon Fact #11:

While chromatic dragons are normally considered evil and dangerous, spring-green colored dragons are vegan, so you can approach them safely with no fear of being eaten. Beware though, do not confuse them with regular green dragons, as these LOVE to eat humans.

Looking at the wagons, i wish to solve in Claptastik- Upwards-Delta
they feel the most sus
Also gypyx is likely town

I agree. I think clap slot is town though.

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

Askes Elo to see if it was just a surface comparison or a deliberately bad reframing

KINDA CLEVER

[Hu Tao]

Anyways, gotten around to thinking about Hu Tao again, and i think this slot's kinda weird? At least in terms of good stuff, the interactions with Margot look kinda good 660 and Margot's big read list where she pretty much puts them as scumlean, but with declared intent to get around to pushing them

On the other side, sitting on delta has maaaybe a bit of scum equity for them, as like, that wagon was kind of not going anywhere for a long while? (granted, no wagons were really going anywhere apart from Gamma but such pasiveness kinda indicates a willingness to let things go that way without involving oneself) on top of that if Hu Tao is indeed scum then i think we need to look for the 3rd on the actual Gamma wagon as there's almost no chance that thing is actually pure

Also is gamma at e-1 right now? Seems like it? I could be wrong though

If gamma gets to e-1 I'm quick hammering

Cold feet

this also weird me out a bit as a "my shitposting isn't really working out anymore but i wanna pretend it's still a thing, which is imo more likely to come from a scum mindset aka : more willing to fake viewpoints

kinda annoys me to have that many scumreads but it'll prolly be fine (clueless)

Ironic because I was just thinking you could be scum again

alas we are but the Romeo and Juliet of mafiascum, bound to destroy each other no mattern the strength of our love

[Hu Tao]

Discrediting me as shitposting day 1 when I had quite a few reads is scummy as well.

yeah so, i think you misundersteand my point here, yeah you did stuff day 1, more than the average player even, i'm more talking about the progression of "hey i'm gonna quickbhammer" to "i'm not actually"

Passion explained my reasoning for that

[Hu Tao]

Spoiler: LONG

Votecount 1.03

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2024-01-14 01:13:22).

Votecount

MargotRosa

(5):

Claptastik

,

Gypyx

, Gamma Emerald, Laplacian, FuDuzn

Upwards (2):

lucca261, Hu Tao

Gamma Emerald (1):

Alianna

Alianna (1):

Naerys

Not Voting (4):

Upwards, Zebedee, DeltaWave, MargotRosa

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to send someone on the fast route to the afterlife.

flavor

Dragon Fact #4:

While often depicted as cruel and beastly monsters, dragons are actually highly intelligent, and have a better grasp on science than most humans. In fact, dragons invented modern computers!

Votecount 1.12

Combined Mod ISO.

Votecount

Gamma Emerald (7):

Alianna,

Claptastik

,

Upwards

, Naerys,

DeltaWave

, Laplacian, Gamma Emerald

DeltaWave (2):

Hu Tao, Zebedee

Laplacian (2):

lucca261, Gypyx

MargotRosa (1):

FuDuzn

FuDuzn (1):

MargotRosa

Not Voting (0).

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to send someone on the fast route to the afterlife.

Flavor

Dragon Fact #11:

While chromatic dragons are normally considered evil and dangerous, spring-green colored dragons are vegan, so you can approach them safely with no fear of being eaten. Beware though, do not confuse them with regular green dragons, as these LOVE to eat humans.

Looking at the wagons, i wish to solve in Claptastik- Upwards-Delta
they feel the most sus
Also gypyx is likely town

great post you are so great today congrats naerys

i don't hate all targaryens now

Do I detect BITTERNESS after Naerys DOMINATED the BIG STRONG MAFIA PR last night?