Mini Normal 2322: Game Over

[Purplemango]

@Purple - join Hu tao with us.

Purple don't let them pressure you. What are your reads?

I remember the time when Purple's only vote of the game was to hammer HPE when I was already gonna do it the next morning

That was neat

It was mostly because you said you were going to do it, and it was very clear that hpe scum
Right now this is less the case for me anyway

Are you voting anyone currently?

not really
maybe tomorrow, We have at least four days, and that's something more impactful than just talking

I do generally support voting for hu tao

Do something, Purple. Do any of these things.

At the moment my thought is that you are probably a town, I don't really see a reason for you to act like that if you are scum then, it works out

same for dragon, But less because of the part of the role and because it really makes sense to me that if he was scum he wouldn't kill to pretend to be a jailkeeper (or in general, for that matter)

random nurse leaning to town, I don't have a specific problem with voting for him because some of the things annoy me a bit, but not my preference and it would be a bit unwise so no

I have no idea about gamma, so nothing
I guess that more town then scum

I have no idea about gera either because I don't understand the logic behind their actions neither as scum nor as town but less neutral than gamma

hu tao makes sense as scum, not 100% sure, I will re-read things she wrote later


On another topic, how did you quote more than one thing?
Sorry if something here is written weird

Questions because Flavor is not seeing a thought process from you and honestly I am not either:

Do you think it makes sense that scum would kill Flavor twice? Who would scum be for that to happen?

Why does Hu Tao makes sense as scum for you?

Why doesn't Pav make sense as scum to you?

Maybe? I wouldn't try to kill him in the first place, but it makes sense that if someone saves him once, he won't have protection again
It's kinda risky, and there were other players to kill, so I wouldn't count on it

Mostly by vibe, gamma town, cw/random nurse scum, you scum, Gera can be both, as scum they will probably let whoever is with them to decide

I'm pretty sure I've already said somewhere why I think that way

I don't know how he plays scum, so maybe I'm wrong about that

but the situation as it is, (sort of) good for scum, maybe except for the part where he have a lot of votes on him

i don't see a reason for him to try to change it, assuming he is scum. Also trying to make the game less stuck, not really effective and i don't think thats make sense for scum

That doesn't answer my question. I asked who it would make sense to Kill Flavor twice, and who it wouldn't make sense to kill him twice.

Can you say it again?

Can you elaborate?

Indeed, I probably answered in a strange way, but the intention was that in a situation where flavor was killed twice, who would make sense to me to be scum and do it and who wouldn't

she a bit like that, too supportive of the rest? It seems to me like behavior that is amazing for scum, because in this situation she is still enough to help, and also doesn't make herself a target in case something doesn't go right
There was more i think, but doesn't work for me rn

the gamestate was good for scum, town were stuck and there was really no progress in a certain direction He has no reason to try to change it or promote things so that they happen, it's better for him to leave it as it is/try to confuse even more, not fix it

[DragonEater70]

Been there all game, Black.

I don't think it's a real read and she is purposely avoiding going into detail about it

How is this not a real read? I've explained my read over and over and over. I'm sorry you don't agree with it, but this is how I base my reads. I've not been wrong on him in any of my games.

I've explained over and over and over how it's a bad read and instead of reevaluating you're just ignoring all my points. It doesn't feel like you want to solve for Dragon. That's because you already know his alignment and are committed to the pocket attempt

Okay. Since you're new I'll level with you. Tell me why Dragon is scum here then.

I think Dragon might be town actually

You're scum though

Then why are you shading her for townreading me?

Or, let's put it that way:
Why am I town? If you can give a better reason that Hu Tao then maybe you do have a poiny that she isn't trying to solve me.

[DragonEater70]

@Dragon - I just kinda have a soul town read on Hu Tao.

And the fact I can’t explain more of that….sounds very familiar.

And the fact i also see some type of intangible with you that I have a hard time coming from scum DESPITE thinking a lot of your stuff is scummy, i don’t really think you’d make a lot of that stuff as scum.

One no kill makes sense to help give credit to a JK claim.

Two is A LOT to do, but 2nd no kill still didn’t add an extra day, so sure.

But there is an intangible Dragon’s had this game. And for Dragon to be scum, it would require a pretty high level of scum play, and I was originally giving Dragon the benefit of the doubt that they could be there, and then I saw the scum game Black linked and Black pointing out similarities.

I think it’s admirable of Black to put this effort in, but I do think Black inherently is pushing a scum agenda in a way that makes sense to do in the given gamestate.

With Gamma, Gamma and I have been playing together almost a decade, I’ve been scum who burned her many a time.

I convinced her to vote a role cop confirmed Miller in 3p ELO to win a scum game. I’ve misfaded her as scum.

She’s correctly called me out as scum multiple times.

While it’s a big project for her, after she went away, her voice and pressure stopped being able to affect me so much.

This is exactly what it was like with Bingle in Classic Commercials. I would catch them, make a big case, then they come in to patch the holes and actively ease my paranoia on them.

Gamma started to do the same, not as obviously, but she’s not as logical a player as Bingle is. Bingle uses logic and plays a logical town as scum, apparently with some AtE.

Gamma coming in pushing Pav makes sense in a world where she thinks I’m town reading Dragon/Hu Tao.

But then she switched to Hu Tao because I was pushing in the 3.

I think Pav could be correct that it’s Purple here as well, so Joyboy (Gamma-Black)/Purple/HPE makes a lot of sense to me.

I’m not 100% sure that Geraint or Pav isn’t scum here right now. HPE talked about how that one would never be scum with CW, and then Gamma reinforced that idea. So it’s not ‘impossible’ it’s there either for me right now, but I think they were being genuine with that too.

A big yes to this post.

I feel we're finally on the same page since when we limmed HPE.

[DragonEater70]

And yeah, my Hu Tao soulread is the same one you have.

[DragonEater70]

I'll probably switch to Black but I need to finish reading up.

Do I jail you or do I try to block the kill?

[DragonEater70]

If Dragon was scum he would have no reason to no kill 3 nights in a row, especially when no one was sus of him

Do you think this is exclusive to Dragon or do you think there are other players that would no-kill?

I could see flavor doing it as like a gambit if he was in a bad situation and had to as scum. But most players wouldn't.

I'm curious why you seem to think Dragon wouldn't no kill as scum when he did it twice in Flavorless Hell. It wasn't really the optimal play there either and the only person that really suspected him was you

I only did it once. My kill was blocked N2 because I tried to shoot the hider.

[DragonEater70]

So FL is mechanically confirmed?

There's no possible one-shot kill roll with scum in this setup?

Nope

[DragonEater70]

If Dragon was scum he would have no reason to no kill 3 nights in a row, especially when no one was sus of him

Do you think this is exclusive to Dragon or do you think there are other players that would no-kill?

I could see flavor doing it as like a gambit if he was in a bad situation and had to as scum. But most players wouldn't.

I'm curious why you seem to think Dragon wouldn't no kill as scum when he did it twice in Flavorless Hell. It wasn't really the optimal play there either and the only person that really suspected him was you

HE DID IT TWICE THERE AND HERE.

Okay, we are living in a Dragon or Black scum world.

Tinfoil: we’re living in a Dragon AND Black scum world.

You're all over the place

You should read the game me and him just lost as town in. This is nothing

I agree

In that one Flavor solved the entire scum team, then decided to kill his biggest townread, then almost solved the scum team again (but was pocketed too well by Naerys).

[DragonEater70]

Here’s my idea:

Fade Black. Dragon jails me either way. If she’s town, fade Dragon.

If she’s scum, same thing.

Let’s go Black->Dragon.

If Dragon is ever blocked to get me killed, i will get a vig shot.

What I am not getting is why does either of our alignments imply anything about the other's alignment.

And specifically why me allegedly no killing twice (in fact it was only once) relate to this.

[DragonEater70]

If this game is Geraint/Purple scum team, this is silly.

But like, funny still.

Yep.

[DragonEater70]

the gamestate was good for scum, town were stuck and there was really no progress in a certain direction He has no reason to try to change it or promote things so that they happen, it's better for him to leave it as it is/try to confuse even more, not fix it

So you are saying that as scum, Pav would be happy with the gamestate, right? Well, don't you feel he was happy with the gamestate? Because that's what I felt. So I don't fully understand why that makes him town.

[DragonEater70]

From you POV, I mean

[DragonEater70]

But anyway I do see Pav as slightly more towny recently

And I agree that Black is pushing a scum agenda

So...

VOTE: Black

[Random Nurse]

Have we played before, Pavowski?

[Flavor Leaf]

Kill Dragon if Black is town.

[DragonEater70]

Kill Dragon if Black is town.

I still don't get why

[geraintm]

If this game is Geraint/Purple scum team, this is silly.

But like, funny still.

Yep.

If I was scum, I would have managed to get on a wagon by now that had got over the line. I can see Purple being scum thiugh

[Pavowski]

Have we played before, Pavowski?

Don't think so, unless you're an alt. I have no alts.

[Purplemango]

the gamestate was good for scum, town were stuck and there was really no progress in a certain direction He has no reason to try to change it or promote things so that they happen, it's better for him to leave it as it is/try to confuse even more, not fix it

So you are saying that as scum, Pav would be happy with the gamestate, right? Well, don't you feel he was happy with the gamestate? Because that's what I felt. So I don't fully understand why that makes him town.

Not necessarily happy, but yes, it's a better situation, so it makes more sense to me that he will try to deepen it than to put things in order and such

[Flavor Leaf]

vote black, purple.

[DragonEater70]

Flavor it'd be nice if you answer questions such as "should I jail you" or "why does my alignmwnt somehow relate to Black's"

[geraintm]

vote black, purple.

VOTE: purple

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor it'd be nice if you answer questions such as "should I jail you" or "why does my alignmwnt somehow relate to Black's"

eh dont feel like it.

done with this day phase. you should probs jail me.

Geraint/Black looking so likely LOL

[Flavor Leaf]

Fade Black, jail me, ill vig at Geraint in case they end up roleblocking Dragon.

[Flavor Leaf]

Geraint voting alongside their main scum read Pav is baaaaaaaad. Purely a saving Black vote.