Normal Game Changes (New Year 2024 Update)
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I definitely support keeping a slot exclusive for mini/micro simple/regular games.
21 players sounds like a good limit for Normals. I also won't oppose 19 as a limit though I can see why others might.-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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like you've said, a time limit feels really superfluous for normal games, there's not really much difference between one signup to the next one
otherwise, while i agree with the point about limit larges to 21 players, i kinda wanna play devil's advocate and say that in practice we rarely get games that go above that limit, and saying "no you can't make this 24 players, but with 3 less players it's cool" is a bit weird of an end result for that
if our main worry is about larges, which this kinda seems to be about in the end, maybe a queue specially made for "whichever normal fills up first" could help? Of course this would help with minis at first since they're smaller, but i feel like a part of the reason as to why minis get filled up easier is just that people often default to it when they don't care about what to playWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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problem is that 19 isn't a super elegant size for setupsIn post 125, DragonEater70 wrote: I definitely support keeping a slot exclusive for mini/micro simple/regular games.
21 players sounds like a good limit for Normals. I also won't oppose 19 as a limit though I can see why others might.
generally sizes go like this in terms of alignement ratios :
2v7
3v10
4v13
5v16 (21p)
you would need to ironically make less "normal" normals to run 19p setupsWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I never said people had to use 19 often, I just like the option of being able to run a game like that once in a very long while. Like if we, theoretically, set the maximum to 19, I'd expect most Larges to run on 17, and then sometimes myself or someone would come along with a whack 19p setup.-
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TemporalLich Grand Scheme
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I kinda feel 21 is a reasonable cap for normal game size
though that's because 21 is the largest a Simple Normal game can be, as 16 Town and 5 Mafia is a valid Simple Normal alignment ratio
19 is also a good reasonable cap but that would mean 21 player Simple Normal games would need to be ran as Large Themestime will end-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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What exactly do you mean by that? Like allowing multiple larges to simultaneously enter signups but letting players say "in for whichever fills first"?In post 126, Gypyx wrote: if our main worry is about larges, which this kinda seems to be about in the end,maybe a queue specially made for "whichever normal fills up first" could help?Of course this would help with minis at first since they're smaller, but i feel like a part of the reason as to why minis get filled up easier is just that people often default to it when they don't care about what to play-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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i meant more like you can sign up for the mini, for the large, or you can say "I don't care just get me in whichever starts first"In post 130, DragonEater70 wrote:
What exactly do you mean by that? Like allowing multiple larges to simultaneously enter signups but letting players say "in for whichever fills first"? Because I don't think this would be enough to counteract signup dilution and would probably result in the same signup times as if we just had one large in signups, except with the illusion that games take longer to fill because they are simultaneous.In post 126, Gypyx wrote: if our main worry is about larges, which this kinda seems to be about in the end,maybe a queue specially made for "whichever normal fills up first" could help?Of course this would help with minis at first since they're smaller, but i feel like a part of the reason as to why minis get filled up easier is just that people often default to it when they don't care about what to playWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate
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DkKoba They/ThemSurvivorThey/Them
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you can already do this, its called inning to both and then outing when 1 fillsretired
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Idk if it's okay to make a request like that, but I think it'd be cool if the "Combined" modifier could be used in regular games, though probably with a warning to game designers/reviewers not to overcomplicate it. Because I think you can have combined roles that feel pretty uncomplex (at least to me), such as FN/Messenger or Neighborizer/Doctor. But anything like "vigilante/disloyal bodyguard" or "RoleGuard/Doctor/Vigilante" will make the game complex.-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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yeah i do agree you can make normal sounding roles with combined, but like, the thing is still that creating a whole new role is a bit outside of normal expectations imoWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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My point is that not all Combined roles are outside Normal expectations, IMO.
Like how is 1-Shot Weak FN cool and expected but 1-Shot Combined Cop FN, which has almost the same functional effect, a brand new role that has to be tagged complex? How is a Combined Tracker Rolecop a brand new, totally hard to play around role? Etc.
Like obviously they are powerful roles but not more than masons (for 1-shot FN/Cop) or just a cop (for Tracker/Rolecop)-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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Weak is imo a modifier that kind of "takes over" any role you're putting it on, like yeah, you're sending out a message with that but you're pretty much always playing a Weak Doctor / Weak Rolecop / Weak whatever the same way
meanwhile like, Combined, even if you restrict it to "reasonable" normal roles multiplies the possibilites by a lot, and if a role gets enough demand to have it done in normals, just give it a name and make it an actual role, like an Alien just being a combined Roleblocker RolestopperWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate
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Enchant Survivor
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Did you consider adding more third parties in normal?
Condemner nuh?Wizard-Mercenary
You need replacement/players ASAP? PM me! I almost always accept.-
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N Jack of All Trades
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hell no-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I don't really want third parties in Normals
It makes them much less normal.-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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#MakeArsonistNormalWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate
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Ausuka she/herTeam Mafia Winnershe/her
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I don't really want to add more third parties to normals
This is primarily because I hate funNo matter what happens, I'll be right there with you.-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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honestly that's fair, i get that once you add something there's really no point to stopWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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which would be badWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate
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DkKoba They/ThemSurvivorThey/Them
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how dare you hate centralizing roles that cause polarizing gameplay inherently due to their wincon dynamicIn post 141, Ausuka wrote: I don't really want to add more third parties to normals
This is primarily because I hate funretired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
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Random Nurse He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Is Juggernaut-Immune Bulletproof Townie possible in Complex games?-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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On paper it would be but I am not sure it gets past review.-
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DkKoba They/ThemSurvivorThey/Them
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very much so as the presence of a juggernaut/strongman is not necessarily guaranteed nor required against a bulletproof. what's more concerning is the existence of the infinite shot BP on a townie. complex allows some level of nonsense like this.In post 145, Random Nurse wrote: Is Juggernaut-Immune Bulletproof Townie possible in Complex games?retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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yeah basically it's the same as convincing the reviewers that a Town Full Bulletproof is absolutely balancedWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate
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Enchant Survivor
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It is balanced, it's just unfair as fuck!Wizard-Mercenary
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