Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[Roden]

VOTE: Vivax

It's been awhile since I last played with you

[Roden]

VOTE: Vivax

It's been awhile since I last played with you

Yeah I think you were around when I got offered a leading position at a social media company, which I then declined to get a job instead.

Why the vote ?

It's just random

[Roden]

VOTE: Vivax

It's been awhile since I last played with you

Yeah I think you were around when I got offered a leading position at a social media company, which I then declined to get a job instead.

Why the vote ?

It's just random

Why the random vote?

Everybody always asks "why the random vote" and not "how's the random vote"

Your answer lies there I think

[Roden]

Less random than rolling a die, more random than simply vibing with a certain name

[Roden]

unluckily vivax might be scum, thats a shame

otherwise, RVS in a instant majority lynch is a fucking terrible idea and yall should be ashamed of creating that site culture. Absolutely absurd

???

What exactly do you expect to happen?

[Roden]

I'm assuming you're another of Vivax's off site friends?

[Roden]

If activity levels, or lack thereof, are an indication of guilt, then I'd be very suspicious of Dunnstral, Naerys, and Roden. And obviously MalcolmTucker but they might be afk and getting replaced.

What lack of activity?

[Roden]

unluckily vivax might be scum, thats a shame

otherwise, RVS in a instant majority lynch is a fucking terrible idea and yall should be ashamed of creating that site culture. Absolutely absurd

???

What exactly do you expect to happen?

Someone getting quick yeeted because people are being funny

VOTE: Oats

Don't believe this faux outrage

[Roden]

Also of all the posts you choose to respond to that one is very funny roden

I have no idea who you are

[Roden]

I'm assuming you're another of Vivax's off site friends?

You mind answering this, Oats?

[Roden]

unluckily vivax might be scum, thats a shame

otherwise, RVS in a instant majority lynch is a fucking terrible idea and yall should be ashamed of creating that site culture. Absolutely absurd

???

What exactly do you expect to happen?

Someone getting quick yeeted because people are being funny

VOTE: Oats

Don't believe this faux outrage

It’s real outrage

Bad answer

[Roden]

Also of all the posts you choose to respond to that one is very funny roden

I have no idea who you are

You chose to respond to my opening post about things that didn’t matter to the game. Out of everything that’s happened since you first posted including all the vivax, ood, dann things

That's because your opening post pinged me as being alignment-indicative

I've read everything you mentioned, I don't have anything substantial to add to those conversations

[Roden]

Also of all the posts you choose to respond to that one is very funny roden

I have no idea who you are

You chose to respond to my opening post about things that didn’t matter to the game. Out of everything that’s happened since you first posted including all the vivax, ood, dann things

That's because your opening post pinged me as being alignment-indicative

I've read everything you mentioned, I don't have anything substantial to add to those conversations

Saying that you found it "funny" is odd though considering you should have zero expectations of how I play the game and interact with others

[Roden]

I'm assuming you're another of Vivax's off site friends?

You mind answering this, Oats?

Why is it important?

If I thought you needed to know this before you answered, I would have said so

[Roden]

Oats coming off hyper aggressive and self-righteous at the start, only to backpedal into defensiveness over basic questions in less than five posts is interesting

I'm thinking he's cocky newbscum who saw somebody power wolf once and thought he could do it without figuring out how you're actually supposed to play it

[Roden]

Also of all the posts you choose to respond to that one is very funny roden

I have no idea who you are

You chose to respond to my opening post about things that didn’t matter to the game. Out of everything that’s happened since you first posted including all the vivax, ood, dann things

That's because your opening post pinged me as being alignment-indicative

I've read everything you mentioned, I don't have anything substantial to add to those conversations

Saying that you found it "funny" is odd though considering you should have zero expectations of how I play the game and interact with others

Ah yes because nothing exists outside your meta world.

Why is it alignment indicative that I find the game of rvs stupid in a world with instant majority lynch?

Disliking RVS isn't AI

Overreacting to "bad town play" with self-righteous fury is though, as I find it tends to come from scum

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

Oats coming off hyper aggressive and self-righteous at the start, only to backpedal into defensiveness over basic questions in less than five posts is interesting

I'm thinking he's cocky newbscum who saw somebody power wolf once and thought he could do it without figuring out how you're actually supposed to play it

Ah yes refusing to answer inane questions is now “defensiveness”

Doubling down on the defensive responses, I see

[Roden]

What made you unvote Gob?

[Roden]

And why are you so scared of revealing information about who you are as a player?

[Roden]

What made you unvote Gob?

I didn’t?

VOTE: gob

UNVOTE:

Oats coming off hyper aggressive and self-righteous at the start, only to backpedal into defensiveness over basic questions in less than five posts is interesting

I'm thinking he's cocky newbscum who saw somebody power wolf once and thought he could do it without figuring out how you're actually supposed to play it

Ah yes refusing to answer inane questions is now “defensiveness”

[Roden]

And why are you so scared of revealing information about who you are as a player?

Why is your reading comprehension so bad you need me to spell it out for you?

Don't insult me. Answer my question please.

[Roden]

Well I appreciate that you're spewing Gob as conftown once you flip scum at least

[Roden]

unluckily vivax might be scum, thats a shame

otherwise, RVS in a instant majority lynch is a fucking terrible idea and yall should be ashamed of creating that site culture. Absolutely absurd

Town spewing Vivax here.

I don't have much of a read on anyone right now. Anyone have a really strong read at the moment?

single scum read please

Possibly pushing for a buddy to start looking townier while simultaneously distancing.

Lets discuss something important...

Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO

These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.

Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.

VOTE: Vivax

Its ridiculous that yall let gob get away with this tbh.
I know im using ridiculous a lot, but this is an insanely terrible post

It's funny that you acknowledge this and think it's scummy, but somehow are oblivious to outoforder giving him a townread for it while you don't. If you are town then what does that make outoforder, or me for that matter?

Considering we think the same it's odd that you think I'm scummy but manage to overlook the entire reason that I'm voting him for yet is one you seem to be agreeing with.

If he's mafia though I congratulate you to what later will be a present scumclaim.

how does outoforder giving him a town read make outoforder scum rather than bad?

Wow I can hold 2 separate thoughts in my head big whoop lol.

White knighting Order.

[Roden]

I don't need to case someone who already confirmed themselves as scum lol

[Roden]

Then vote Oats

[Roden]

Then vote Oats

I'd rather vote you, as I don't believe the way you're portraying your view of the game to be real. It's feels as if you're overcompensating.

Ok, found the second scum

[Roden]

Is it not obvious that I don't actually think you're scum

[Roden]

I'm mainly just fucking with Oats for being unnecessarily unhelpful and rude

I do genuinely think he's scum for his faux outrage though, and his attempts to discredit me aren't helping

[Roden]

Is it not obvious that I don't actually think you're scum

It's obvious that you don't actually believe anything you're saying, despite your conviction, yes.

This is wrong actually

[Roden]

???

At what point was I hyper aggressive, self-righteous, defensive, or trying to power wolf?

[Roden]

???

At what point was I hyper aggressive, self-righteous, defensive, or trying to power wolf?

I'd certainly say at least 3/4 (aggressive, defensive and potentially attempting to power wolf).

have you got thoughts on anyone else this game that isn't Oats?

Quote it?

[Roden]

I have thoughts on other players but you get them when you get them

[Roden]

Defensive: 234, 248 (btw, I think Oats' comment in 237 was fair and reflected my own thoughts at the time, hence my vote)

Aggressive/Potential Power-wolfing: 263, 264, 268, 274

Yes, you later walked this back by saying you weren't being entirely serious, but that in itself I find somewhat suspect.

234 is a question asking to support the statement made

248 is pointing out a discrepancy

263 and 268 is a jab for a jab

264 is looking at associations

276 was made in jest

Anything else?

[Roden]

Gob why did you dodge my question?
If you think that mafia would vote each other in rvs, why did you describe the situation of this game where nobody voted for each other and point at vivax for getting voted multiple times but he didn’t vote his voters? That’s inconsistent with the scumtell that you described.

Also gob is still not actually trying to figure out who’s mafia and who’s town in the game, he’s still floating around just coming in and posting random shit and leaving.

Roden, why do you feel like you can brush off someones question but I can’t brush off yours?

Sorry, I don't answer inane questions

[Roden]

If activity levels, or lack thereof, are an indication of guilt, then I'd be very suspicious of Dunnstral, Naerys, and Roden. And obviously MalcolmTucker but they might be afk and getting replaced.

What lack of activity?

Does anyone find it interesting that Roden reacted like this to my post, and THEN came the aggressive showdown with Oats? Because I certainly do.

I'm totally on board with Lucas's sentiments that the whole Roden vs. Oats thing seems overblown. However when Oats got personal, it made me realize they're probably just being a jerk, and I've learned that being a jerk actually kinda tends to be a town tell. Scum wouldn't take it personally to be viewed as suspicious since they clearly are guilty, but town views it as an attack on their mafia skill to be innocent but viewed as guilty, and they have the confidence of knowing their own innocence, so from those two things I can see where the "being a jerk" thing comes about. Which is all a long winded way of saying I don't really view oats as scummy here.

Roden's reaction is a bit different and again seems possibly driven by what I said. Could just be overconfident town, but to talk directly to Roden here, please realize what you're doing here isn't helpful, your case is very flimsy, and now you're having to play defense. If you're actually town, it would behoove you to find a way to put this behind us, and continuing what seems like a bad case against oats probably won't get us there.

In what world am I playing defense here? I have one vote.

[Roden]

And why are you so scared of revealing information about who you are as a player?

Why is your reading comprehension so bad you need me to spell it out for you?

For real though, this is incredibly rude and I hope this isn't how people plan on treating each other in this game.

We can vote him for it. In his defense though, that's how he's learned to play.

This actually answers the question I was asking Oats earlier. His play felt super similar to Punk's, who comes from a different site, so it made me think he probably came from there as well. In that case, it would explain the instant aggression and over-the-top criticism towards the town and site culture. Oats refusing to answer that question though made me think he knew I just detected his scum tell, but that he wasn't from the same site as Punk and couldn't lie and say he was, and so refusing to answer was his only way to shrug off pressure as scum.

It turns out no, he's just unhelpful and abrasive for literally no reason besides being taught bad habits.

UNVOTE:

[Roden]

This isn't specific to this game in particular, but man I'll never understand why town will intentionally choose to play against wincon and decide to be uncooperative with town

[Roden]

VOTE: Order

I'll get into this vote later, I need to go to work.

[Roden]

In what world am I playing defense here? I have one vote.

This actually answers the question I was asking Oats earlier. His play felt super similar to Punk's, who comes from a different site, so it made me think he probably came from there as well. In that case, it would explain the instant aggression and over-the-top criticism towards the town and site culture. Oats refusing to answer that question though made me think he knew I just detected his scum tell, but that he wasn't from the same site as Punk and couldn't lie and say he was, and so refusing to answer was his only way to shrug off pressure as scum.

It turns out no, he's just unhelpful and abrasive for literally no reason besides being taught bad habits.

UNVOTE:

In one post, you say "in what world am I playing defense?", and in the next, you cancel your vote after getting some heat for pushing a bad case. I think that could correctly be classified as "playing defense".

...Did you not read the post you quoted?

[Roden]

...Did you not read the post you quoted?

Of course I did. I'm pointing out how it can be classified as "playing defense".

Explain?

[Roden]

People were giving you heat for pushing oatsmaster, or at the very least, people thought that the push was misguided.

Since you are the one who pushed this in the first place, and since nobody else really seems on board with it, you had to take some steps to correct this. You could have chosen to stick to your guns, but instead you wrote a single paragraph where you came to reason after being rather heated in your case against oatsmaster that lasted for pages. Regardless, you backed off, possibly because it would be silly to push a bad case if you knew it was bad, possibly because you really did come to realize it was a bad case. Either way, you backed off.

Note that I am saying that this COULD BE classified as playing defense. I'm not saying it IS classified. But I am saying it's a possible interpretation of your actions. That's all.

My personal opinion is that it doesn't seem entirely sincere and seems a little fabricated and convenient. That's just my take.

Nowhere in my post do I back off or say my case was incorrect. I said I learned the information I was seeking earlier and adjusted my read accordingly.

[Roden]

Currently dealing with a work injury from yesterday. I don't think I need to VLA but I'll let the mod know if that changes. My posting will be sparse in the meantime.

[Roden]

My case on Order is void at atp, I didn't like their early interactions with Luca and Vivax but 451 turned my opinion around. I vibe with the mentality "I only post what I feel I need to" and tonally I feel that their posting has gotten a lot better.

UNVOTE:

I also had some reservations about Dann, at one point it looked like he may have been trying to pocket me with posts like 332 and when he was hard defending me while writing his case against Ninja. I think he ultimately is town though for later backing up a bit and concluding that he might've been too hasty, I think if he were scum he would just stick to town reading me and leaving it at that.

Luca I think is spewed town for being unable to discern that I was mimicking Oats' play and behavior when interacting with him and then not knowing that me calling them scum was a joke. They've overall been fairly townie and strike me as someone who's got a decent grasp on the game.

Ninja at first seemed similar to Luca, but the more I interacted with her and then saw some of her later posts, the more I think she's just playing with an agenda to elim people rather than scum hunt. Her insistence on arguing that I'm wrong about my own thoughts and intentions reads more as gaslighting rather than someone who's actually try to solve my alignment. 499 doubles down on this and is very tonally manipulative.

VOTE: Ninja

[Roden]

Jesus, 15 pages since yesterday

Catching up now

[Roden]

roden what is your read on DOP

Who is DOP?

[Roden]

If you read P11 and think Roden is scum then you should replay the tutorial

I'd gladly retake the tutorial but I'm still a bit on the fence. Oats complaining about rvs seems pretty normal and then he lashes out at Oats for no reason and then keeps a low profile afterwards.

Even the people scum reading me admit that Oats was being an unhelpful dick. Not sure how you find my interactions there confusing.

[Roden]

I really don’t see whatever it is you are seeing in that interaction vivax. Roden’s play looks like exactly what I would as mafia in that circumstance.

You seem like a good player, but this is kind of an embarrassing thing to admit

[Roden]

VOTE: DarthPunk

Im taking a stand.

Punk has been pretty townie, what is there to take a stand on?

[Roden]

roden what is your read on DOP

Who is DOP?

I meant, DP here, sorry

He's like if Oats had social skills and knew how to play the game. I like his aggression, it could just be because he has pockets of activity but his short bursts of questioning and pressure feel natural.

[Roden]

My case on Order is void at atp, I didn't like their early interactions with Luca and Vivax but 451 turned my opinion around. I vibe with the mentality "I only post what I feel I need to" and tonally I feel that their posting has gotten a lot better.

UNVOTE:

I also had some reservations about Dann, at one point it looked like he may have been trying to pocket me with posts like 332 and when he was hard defending me while writing his case against Ninja. I think he ultimately is town though for later backing up a bit and concluding that he might've been too hasty, I think if he were scum he would just stick to town reading me and leaving it at that.

Luca I think is spewed town for being unable to discern that I was mimicking Oats' play and behavior when interacting with him and then not knowing that me calling them scum was a joke. They've overall been fairly townie and strike me as someone who's got a decent grasp on the game.

Ninja at first seemed similar to Luca, but the more I interacted with her and then saw some of her later posts, the more I think she's just playing with an agenda to elim people rather than scum hunt. Her insistence on arguing that I'm wrong about my own thoughts and intentions reads more as gaslighting rather than someone who's actually try to solve my alignment. 499 doubles down on this and is very tonally manipulative.

VOTE: Ninja

Where have I told you that you are wrong about your own thoughts and intentions? Can you show me examples of this? I don't think I've done this at all.

I find the accusation of gaslighting you to be extremely serious, by the way, on a personal level, so obviously I want to be really crystal clear about all of this. I want to understand why you think I'm doing this.

I'm not meeting you on uneven ground. This is a very manipulative post to make in response and just confirms my suspicions of what you were doing. I repeatedly explained the reasoning behind my interactions with Oats, and you've repeatedly chosen to ignore it and assign context and intentions that are not actually there. You are putting in effort to convince ME that my own thoughts were not real. And attempting to make it about you when I called you out on it (finding it to be "serious on a personal level") is a trademark gaslighter tactic.

[Roden]

Vivax is fucking locked off of 1 interaction where he believes it’s impossible that I think someone is town and wrong. It’s very funny at this point lol.

The lack of self-awareness here...

[Roden]

No I don't have any assumption that you're distancing from each other. To be honest I couldn't even remember what your stances towards each other were.

Okay. Well, Roden is my strongest scum read and I would very much love to see him yeeted today. Roden is also currently voting for me and used language in that vote that makes it seem like that opinion is pretty rock-solid and isn't going to change.

If you scum read me, why do you think I have a "rock-solid opinion"? Wouldn't it just be a fake read on my end?

[Roden]

I think that's just an honest to god perspective slip

[Roden]

On page 29, I'll be back in a few hours

[Roden]

10 more pages since last night...

[Roden]

Hmm Roden, tell me more about your thoughts on Oatsmaster and SuperNinja.

Also, do you not want to go Vivax today?

I don't have much more to say about those two

Correct, I don't want to vote Vivax. He's a strong player who shrouds himself under the guise of "lol random" humor. I think it's really easy to want to vote him for being different, and I remember last time I rolled scum against him our team was trying to make him lim bait, but he actually ended up with some of the more accurate reads of the town. So I'm currently just paying attention to what he says and giving him time to cook.

[Roden]

Roden she said you used language that makes it seem like you have a rock-solid opinion.

Right. Why does town think scum has a "rock-solid opinion"? Scum just lies.

[Roden]

I'm not meeting you on uneven ground. This is a very manipulative post to make in response and just confirms my suspicions of what you were doing. I repeatedly explained the reasoning behind my interactions with Oats, and you've repeatedly chosen to ignore it and assign context and intentions that are not actually there.

Again, I'd like to see actual things I have said that you characterize as "assigning context and intentions that are not actually there". Like please show me some things I have said, show quotes, be more specific than this. I'm not going to take this claim from you seriously until you've actually demonstrated that I have done this. I really do not think you're describing the situation accurately, and

I am leaving the ball in your court to prove otherwise.

I am not actively trying to influence you in any way here, other than to request that you do a little bit more work to actually prove your point.

You are putting in effort to convince ME that my own thoughts were not real.

That is such an incredibly unfair way of characterizing it. There's a difference between me saying "I don't believe that your thoughts and intentions are genuine" and me directly influencing YOU to believe that your own thoughts are not actually genuine.

And attempting to make it about you when I called you out on it (finding it to be "serious on a personal level") is a trademark gaslighter tactic.

This is getting WAY too personal and I'm going to ask you to stop. Like for real if you're doubling down on this, then I think what I'd like to do is defer to the mod and ask if they think I'm gaslighting you, because THAT

IS

EXTREMELY SERIOUS. If I were actually doing that, if I were actually trying to psychologically manipulate you in this way, that's something that I should be modkilled before. I REALLY, REALLY do not think that is what I am doing, but if it is, I'm going to defer to the mod and to some higher level of judgment, because you are making this about a lot more than just a game when you accuse me of this.

???

You've been here for years, you know gaslighting isn't against the rules. This AtE is out of control.

[Roden]

Hmm Roden, tell me more about your thoughts on Oatsmaster and SuperNinja.

Also, do you not want to go Vivax today?

I don't have much more to say about those two

Correct, I don't want to vote Vivax. He's a strong player who shrouds himself under the guise of "lol random" humor. I think it's really easy to want to vote him for being different, and I remember last time I rolled scum against him our team was trying to make him lim bait, but he actually ended up with some of the more accurate reads of the town. So I'm currently just paying attention to what he says and giving him time to cook.

well he is saying youre scum so what gives?

Since when? He's been town reading me this entire game.

[Roden]

Like why would he pick a fight with a lengthy response type of person who isn't afraid to get their hands dirty?

Considering you gave him a solid townread in that list post, doesn’t seem like this is true.

I guess I just don't really follow what you're saying here. What is the connection between the general assumption that scum wouldn't want to stir shit up with a lengthy response type of person and my town read on Dann? Like why isn't the conclusion just that this makes Dann less likely to be scum?

Scumdann just cares about looking townie, he doesn’t really care who dies. That case has everyone thinking he’s town. Not really sure why this is some super unlikely scenario.
Like from your perspective, this dude just spent a bunch of time casing you and immediately after you responded he just dropped it and went for someone else. Doesn’t really seem like he was invested in his read.

I like to think the reason he gave it up so fast was because I did such a great job of deconstructing his argument. Consider that I was able to go through each and every word he wrote and explained all of it thoroughly. You could have broken everything he wrote and everything I wrote into like 20-30 posts of this site's seemingly average length, and then it would magically look less like he just abandoned it real quick and more like he actually followed through on his suspicions, and yet the actual content of everything that was said would still be exactly the same. Everyone is free to re-read my response as many times as they like; I don't think anyone should come away from such an exercise thinking that he still had a good argument there. I think THAT is why he gave it up. The timeline of it isn't the interesting part of the story.

Seems like from your perspective he did it to look townie and once that objective was achieved he moved on.

This is just conjecture. It could seem like that, sure, but is that what actually happened? This isn't a convincing argument for anything.

Dissecting a post =/= actually deconstructing an argument

[Roden]

dunnstral why is superfluous' assertion about lurkers like the most interesting thing to you about this game so far

i don't think you're scum for lurking but i don't understand why you are picking at the things you are picking at

Well there's a lot of things that I don't feel like commenting on. Their assertions feel wrong so I felt like commenting on it.

How is it that you have so many posts on this forum and so few in this game?

I average less posts per day than you do.

This is an actually super defensive post but I doubt anyone's actually said so lol

[Roden]

Since 12 minutes ago.

I will start then.
Grack.

There are things that bother me a lot in his game. First of all it's quite hard to do catch up like that with keeping your story straight. Especially as mafia.
There is the post where Luca claims he thinks the interaction with Oats and Roden is S/S. Grack agrees with that, because it looks bizarre.
But after all the opinion actually is that Oats is town and Roden is not.
Then he suspects me and you (Vivax).

Then there is like sudden change in everything. Suddenly Roden doesn't look like mafia anymore. Suddenly Vivax doesn't look like mafia anymore. Suddenly Luca looks like mafia.
Notice that I am the only person ever in this game before Vivax just while ago to suspect Luca at any level. He doesn't have anything to say about his read on me.

Also he doesn't have anything to say about my post here:

Spoiler:

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

I'm actually thinking now, contrary to before, that this might be a mafia post. I mean the theory behind this is legit, but we are playing on a site where RVS is pretty common and Vivax knows it for sure. There is simply no reason to say this, especially FoS anyone for a RV.

[...]
In this instance

I can see Outoforder having that certain abrasiveness and pushing notions I mostly can't find myself agreeing with

so he's the person who takes the heat while his team tries to appear reasonable. Main point that makes me vote him is how he approached gob which wasn't even a real read, he just said mafia wouldn't use such terrible reasoning.
[...]

This is simply what happens in every single game when i am town. Yet Vivax somehow deduces this as a scum tell for me. Note that he doesn't even think gob is mafia.

[...]

We differ a lot in how we approach gob. You tend to just take people playing in a scummy manner at face value while to me he looks just like a player who has fun being contrarian and has zero fear of dying

while annoying the hell out of people who take the game extremely seriously. In that way, I prefer to just treat him as a little thorn in the side who draws too much attention for the game's good (no offense though, I find it amusing).
[...]

I specifically find it suspicious from Oats though that he treated gob in that exceedingly serious manner while I did in a different one as described above

. I mean sure, he doesn't make sense but if he's town that's a main priority for scum to push. I don't know his alignment but I could see him being town shark bait. He's not even triyng to be scummy on purpose, he's just... Derp?

Made the post a clickable spoiler since i assume that was the intent

First underline, that's

exactly how i did and have treated gob

, i am scummy.
Second underline, Oats did the opposite, he is scummy.
What is scummy? Is every singe way you treat gob scummy or what?
There is simply no reason to assume Oats has done anything out of his town range anyways. Vivax should also know that.

Oats mostly from his abrasiveness and the whole stuff I already explained surrounding the way he handled gob who I saw as lunch bait at the time.
You because of the interaction with Ninja that I explained. Would have expected more pushback from you or let's call it OMGUS if you will.
OOO similarly to Oats because of his initial bad vibe I got.

Vivax just described how DP would act as mafia and turned the whole thing around so that

that

would look town and

this doesn't

.
Similarly Vivax just described exactly how me and Oats appear as town, rather than as mafia. Sure,

both of us could probably act like that as mafia

but there is simply no reaso nto believe either of us is mafia

because

of that.

As knowing me, Vivax, Oats and DP, regardless of if Grack thinks i am correct, incorrect or whatever here, this should be imo the most interesting post in the game to him, especially since he apparently suspects me. Alarm bells are ringing as he just comments absolutely nothing about it.

I think he's town though. I liked how he picked out posts to discern my alignment, I think it was genuine understanding.
Everyone at some point has content that doesn't seem to add up. A D1 townie is more prone to changing opinion often.

I think I'd have preferred if we did Roden. I took a bit of a leap of faith in TRing him initially, but I still believe Oats is kinda scummy and I'm wondering if I didn't side between them in what was a SVS interaction.

From the timing SVS would make sense because if mafia doesn't post early they're going to be more self conscious when entering the thread later. It's like they built up a debt they have to repay so they may resort to more oomph.

Having caught up, I'm starting to town-lean Vivax again based on his recent posts. I just think if he's scum then he's making life unnecessarily difficult for himself.

I have a soft town-lean on Gob, which perhaps I will elaborate on earlier.

Dann and ninja are still clearly town
Outoforder is most probably town too
I think Oats and Darth punk are town, but am less confident
Then comes Gob and Dunn, who are soft Town-leans. Maybe Grackaroni too, but I need to see more.

The only clear scumread I have right now is Roden. The other slots haven't left much of an impression on me yet.

In this post again I find it odd that Oats is someone Luca isn't that confident about. If Oats and Roden fought it out so early and Roden is his confident scumread, I believe he should be more opinionated on Oats as well and offer some kind of interpretation to the arguments between them.

I'm mainly just fucking with Oats for being unnecessarily unhelpful and rude

I do genuinely think he's scum for his faux outrage though, and his attempts to discredit me aren't helping

This is not very townie.

Then vote Oats

I'd rather vote you, as I don't believe the way you're portraying your view of the game to be real. It's feels as if you're overcompensating.

Ok, found the second scum

Over the top omgus?
Maybe it's as simple as Roden, Luca, Oats with everyone in bus mode.

This is not a shocking reconsideration tbh, half the player list keeps trying to bully Vivax into scum reading me. This doesn't really erase being correct on me for 99% of the day after eventually being worn down.

[Roden]

Ngl it's really feeling like people don't actually scum read me and are just mad I attacked their off site buddy, and then got so loud about it for 40+ pages that other people just eventually followed suit

[Roden]

I'm barely interacting with Ninja

[Roden]

If there is anything Vivax' play

isn't

, it's people bullying him into a read. Just sayin

I mean. That literally happened. He believed in that vote since little he changed it within 20 minutes.

[Roden]

If there is anything Vivax' play

isn't

, it's people bullying him into a read. Just sayin

I mean. That literally happened. He believed in that vote so little he changed it within 20 minutes.

[Roden]

Or like letting people bully him into a read.

Who is bullying Vivax into scumreading you and how?

Is this an actually serious question or are you not paying attention to the people who've been screaming my name for 40+ pages

[Roden]

okay well like maybe that's the point

you're hung up on this gaslighting point when i feel like looking at ninja as a whole I find it pretty hard to scum read her

it just kinda feels like this is a safe place for you to push

idk maybe I'm conf-biasing because you're eternally behind but it seems like your view on the game is super narrow

Did you not scum read her...?

[Roden]

Why did you scumread me Roden?

My case on Order is void at atp, I didn't like their early interactions with Luca and Vivax but 451 turned my opinion around. I vibe with the mentality "I only post what I feel I need to" and tonally I feel that their posting has gotten a lot better.

[Roden]

Or like letting people bully him into a read.

Who is bullying Vivax into scumreading you and how?

Is this an actually serious question or are you not paying attention to the people who've been screaming my name for 40+ pages

Scumreading you != bullying Vivax into scumreading you.
This game is not all about what Vivax does.

I didn't say or even imply it was

What are you even arguing here

[Roden]

There have been multiple points where Vivax took heat for town reading me and going against the grain

That was literally the basis of the scum case against him earlier

[Roden]

What in my interactions were scummy?

Why so scared Vivax?

I didn't like this since I disagreed that Vivax came off as scared, and continuing to push this later felt scummy.

Spoiler:

hey can people start placing votes down, random or not

it would make it much easier to start getting firm reasons

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

now, why isn't this a vote instead of an FoS

I feel like Dann is trying hard to look Town.

I agree that random voting stage is overhyped, and I prefer my votes to have substance behind them.

I dont understand why Dann is trying to tie themselves to me, considering i have no idea who they are. Im not too sure of anything yet, but i find this the towniest post in thread so far.

This seemed like you took Dann's joke seriously, and your response didn't really have anything to do with what Luca said. It felt like you were trying to look like you were adding to a conversation.

UNVOTE: welp i got nothing from all that except a stronger confidence in DarthPunk as town

If you did it for a reaction, why not wait for outoforder's reaction?

this guy is prolly scum.

This went unexplained, and I felt that Luca was super townie.

[Roden]

I just randomly vote during RVS every game. I've always taken it literally and it would take a couple minutes to check my past games to confirm this.

I've given my reasons for town reading Luca

[Roden]

Like if you voted me in RVS -- and i responded with "why are you voting for me???", how would you react?

"Because it's RVS"

[Roden]

Depending on the context of who I voted, I'd probably have a snarky response if I've played with them before since I'd assume it's a joke at that point

[Roden]

If someone genuinely didn't know what RVS was then I'd explain it to them and wouldn't hold that reaction against them, since my vote would look insane otherwise

[Roden]

@ Roden

You thought Luca was scum when he doubted your post. Do you think that since that post, he has looked townier or scummier?
Because I'm still wondering why you're not cooperating with me and OoO in this instance. If you're town, it should come easy to you to vote someone you suspected earlier especially when it's not going to be you instead. Stop avoiding this please.

Maybe you don't like to be strongarmed/controlled but even then you should have an equally strong conviction read to replace the option.

I wasn't serious when I said I scum read Luca

I'm up to page 31 atm so I don't know if Luca suddenly got scummy or not. If there's a case I'll eventually see it and make up my mind then.

[Roden]

If someone genuinely didn't know what RVS was then I'd explain it to them and wouldn't hold that reaction against them, since my vote would look insane otherwise

Im sorry but you dont really seem to know whta RVS is, or stands for

It's okay, i dont have anything to add to this discussion so you can talk with Vivax.

I know what RVS is. I just don't care. I don't like Day 1 in general.

[Roden]

I'm up to page 31 atm so I don't know if Luca suddenly got scummy or not. If there's a case I'll eventually see it and make up my mind then.

Maybe it's better if you stop resoponding and catch up. I think it's better for everyone regardless of your affiliation.

I had to delete a post earlier when you asked me to explain why I scum read you early on where I initially said "sure, I'll stop catching up so I can scum case you with currently invalid info"

[Roden]

The most bothering thing about Dann is that every now and then he pings Dunnstral, but then he goes back to do something completely different. Now i

can see

a townie reason for this, but i admit there is a moderate chance of distancing, because that's some pretty vague shit.

I think this is weird too. I'm not mafia though, this is all on Dann.

Why did you find this weird?

[Roden]

Im utterly useless

Future me, does Gob ever actually do anything?

[Roden]

someone asked me what I think about 562 I think

I think it leans scummy and I wouldn't be surprised if Roden flips scum, but nothing about it like really alarms me.

I reasonably comfortable with Ninja being town so I don't love the vote there. I don't super love the post-hoc explanation about his trajectory on scum reading to town reading me. I am wary of that type of posting being more about wanting to get credit for his Very Real Thought Process rather than just explaining his read.

in short Roden is another wagon I'm probably onboard with

VOTE: roden

I guess this is fine for now in the interests of not pushing a vanity wagon

What changed that made you go from town > null > scum towards me? Nothing major really happened in this time.

[Roden]

VOTE: oatsmaster
oh and this is scum btw

Future me, does Naerys ever actually do anything?

[Roden]

VOTE: Dunn

This is good for now. Seems like they are kinda just making up reads as they go.

I don't disagree with this.

[Roden]

It's gonna be Roden or Vivax today most likely.

DP i find it very shitty you refuse to consider Vivax mafia just because some stupid townies lynched him last game.

Order, how are you going to try to argue that no one was trying to force Vivax's hand when you literally tried to pit us against each other here?

[Roden]

Roden

- Overly defensive and seems to have vanished after getting more heat.

This is exactly what I mean when I say how you keep lying and trying to manipulate the situation. I didn't "vanish", I already explained that my posting would be sparse due to a work injury from a few days ago. I was in the ER the day I posted that, and since then I'm sometimes unable to post after I take my cocktail of pain/anxiety/blood pressure meds and pass out. My life does not revolve around this game.

[Roden]

Ngl it's really feeling like people don't actually scum read me and are just mad I attacked their off site buddy, and then got so loud about it for 40+ pages that other people just eventually followed suit

Pretty disingenuous reading of the situation

Considering that the situation never happens in the first place if you'd answered my question, it seems pretty accurate

[Roden]

Okay so Roden came back vomited up some stuff and left, what are y’all thoughts about it?

Maybe try having your own thoughts?

What are you doing that isn't just complaining about other people?

[Roden]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems you think that people should be suspicious of you based off how you've posted so far. Luca's reaction to your posts spews them as town. Dannfloor first viewing your posts as townie is also viewed with suspicion.

I don't view Roden as suspiciously as I did before. He seems very chaotic, but I can at least see a basis for the posts he made now, and I'm more inclined to believe that he was trolling than that he was trying to back-track on his read on Luca or that his post about scum reading oats while fucking with him was a contradiction.

I don't think should be suspicious of me, no, but I understand why certain players are. Luca felt like spewed town to me because they would have known my intentions if they were scum, but they seemed genuinely confused by my posts. And I don't think Dann town reading me was suspicious, I initially just thought that him hard defending me was potentially an attempt at pocketing me.

[Roden]

Having caught up, I'm starting to town-lean Vivax again based on his recent posts. I just think if he's scum then he's making life unnecessarily difficult for himself.

I have a soft town-lean on Gob, which perhaps I will elaborate on earlier.

Dann and ninja are still clearly town
Outoforder is most probably town too
I think Oats and Darth punk are town, but am less confident
Then comes Gob and Dunn, who are soft Town-leans. Maybe Grackaroni too, but I need to see more.

The only clear scumread I have right now is Roden. The other slots haven't left much of an impression on me yet.

What would be your perspective on the game if you found out you were wrong on me?

[Roden]

VOTE: Vivax

It's been awhile since I last played with you

Yeah I think you were around when I got offered a leading position at a social media company, which I then declined to get a job instead.

Why the vote ?

It's just random

The more i look at this, this whole scene here looks very unnatural and sketchy.

Random voting stage stands for this; You place a vote on someone hoping it would spark a reaction that is unexpected from them as town.

Now from Roden's side:
- There is a reason Roden voted for Vivax. the vote is not random. I don't care what the reason is, but there is a reason why he chose Vivax from all the players. Now Vivax responds with "why the vote?", which is (or can be considered) an unexpected reaction to a seemingly random vote. As i put it, "why so scared Vivax?"

From Vivax' side:
- I don't find it completely unreasonable to ask "why the vote". However, Vivax fairly well knows what RVS stands for and should not be interested in the vote at all unless he is either thinking there's some suspicious activity behind the vote (why Roden chose him of all the players), or trying to counter-bait a reaction from Roden (which should be expected with the "scummy" answer -- "why the vote?").

Instead of anything happening, fucking nothing at all happens with here, while both players have reasonable reasons to push this further. If not to find mafia, at least start the discussion about something relevant. I find this very likely to be S/S interaction.

After our recent conversation, I'm realizing that half this player list is running into culture shock with the other half and the friction just leads into scum reading over disagreements

This game is unfortunately just going to be harder than usual due to having to parse what is just friction and what is actually scummy

[Roden]

Anyway im voting
VOTE: roden

I reread the entire thread cause why not and roden cannot find anything to post about other than me. I think its fairly obvious hes not actually parsing whats happening and just trying to be active by "catching up" and not being relevant to the conversation.

Wow, I bruised your ego that much huh

[Roden]

. A quick disclaimer, remember also that there's a human behind this account, and I'm looking primarily at oats with this one. Just because you suspect someone is scum, that doesn't give you permission to be rude and hostile to them. Oats, you pull that shit with me where you insult my intelligence like you did on Roden just because you think I'm not aligned with you, we are going to have a HUGE fucking problem, you understand? I don't care if you think I'm so scummy that not even the most intense bathroom cleaner on the planet could make a dent in me; you don't treat the actual human like shit over a fucking form game. Please do your utmost to remember that.

This is getting WAY too personal and I'm going to ask you to stop. Like for real if you're doubling down on this, then I think what I'd like to do is defer to the mod and ask if they think I'm gaslighting you, because THAT IS EXTREMELY SERIOUS. If I were actually doing that, if I were actually trying to psychologically manipulate you in this way, that's something that I should be modkilled before. I REALLY, REALLY do not think that is what I am doing, but if it is, I'm going to defer to the mod and to some higher level of judgment, because you are making this about a lot more than just a game when you accuse me of this.

I find the accusation of gaslighting you to be extremely serious, by the way, on a personal level, so obviously I want to be really crystal clear about all of this. I want to understand why you think I'm doing this.

Just some absurd posts to make if ninja is scum imo

These are just examples of basic AtE

[Roden]

I caught up

I didn't see much of a case on Luca, is it that their posts feel safe?

[Roden]

I caught up

I didn't see much of a case on Luca, is it that their posts feel safe?

Pretty much. Being reasonable and having thread adjacent reads but having no skin in the game by challenging anything.

He‘s chamaleontic

I think if this becomes a consistent issue then I can see the case for Luca being scum. But it's still Day 1, if it was Day 2 or 3 and nothing about their play and approach to the game changed then I'd be more willing to vote there.

[Roden]

Can people who don’t think roden is mafia iso him and his latest contributions and tell me how any of that comes from town trying to find mafia?

Do you do anything other than complain

[Roden]

Oats is probably town but a Vig shot there would be delectable

[Roden]

“I think player is probably town but if we use a powerful town ability on him, id be happy”
Is surely some statement

It speaks to your usefulness

[Roden]

Oats you've quite literally done nothing but bitch and moan because I hurt your ego during RVS. Get over it.

[Roden]

someone asked me what I think about 562 I think

I think it leans scummy and I wouldn't be surprised if Roden flips scum, but nothing about it like really alarms me.

I reasonably comfortable with Ninja being town so I don't love the vote there. I don't super love the post-hoc explanation about his trajectory on scum reading to town reading me. I am wary of that type of posting being more about wanting to get credit for his Very Real Thought Process rather than just explaining his read.

in short Roden is another wagon I'm probably onboard with

VOTE: roden

I guess this is fine for now in the interests of not pushing a vanity wagon

What changed that made you go from town > null > scum towards me? Nothing major really happened in this time.

[Roden]

Having caught up, I'm starting to town-lean Vivax again based on his recent posts. I just think if he's scum then he's making life unnecessarily difficult for himself.

I have a soft town-lean on Gob, which perhaps I will elaborate on earlier.

Dann and ninja are still clearly town
Outoforder is most probably town too
I think Oats and Darth punk are town, but am less confident
Then comes Gob and Dunn, who are soft Town-leans. Maybe Grackaroni too, but I need to see more.

The only clear scumread I have right now is Roden. The other slots haven't left much of an impression on me yet.

What would be your perspective on the game if you found out you were wrong on me?

[Roden]

Hoo boy, ten more pages in the span of a few hours

[Roden]

Roden she said you used language that makes it seem like you have a rock-solid opinion.

Right. Why does town think scum has a "rock-solid opinion"? Scum just lies.

You are not really getting this. She is saying that you are indicating you have a strong opinion with your language, and that is part of her argument. She is not reading into your state of mind.

If she isn't reading into my state of mind then 1) why even bring it up, and 2) why give that as a reason for her to leave her vote on me?

[Roden]

VOTE: luca

I think we can move Hu Tao safely into town as well.

The chiming in is rare and rather sparse in words but consistent. Plus I liked the similar thoughts which earlier were in defense of Luca.

This vote in particular helps a lot to further the game into effective action after Roden declined to vote with me and OoO or to formulate a proper evaluation of Luca who he said he only unseriously called mafia in an earlier post.

Roden would probably a better vig target than Oats at this point because he declined the offer to participate in cooperation between me and OoO after we decided to just at least pretend to trust each other. An important step in any reconciliaton process.

I don‘t know if Roden is mafia but I can say that if he isn‘t, he isn‘t intent to help his wincon by putting his (is it pride?) aside to help town form a properly threatening consensus the mafia have to respect contrary to just individual reads.

I don't want to vote Luca because I town read them and don't think the current case against them is that strong. I can form concensus on other slots and change my vote if necessary, but my trust in you does not outweigh my belief in my town reads.

[Roden]

VOTE: Punk

I'll buy into Dann's case.

[Roden]

TOWN
Dann
Grack
Hu Tao
Luca
Oats
Order
Vivax

NULL
Dunn
Gob
Naerys

SCUM
Punk
Ninja

This is where I'm at for now. If anyone feels a certain read is making you go "wtf" then ask me about it, I'll try to get to it later. Atm I'm feeling nauseous and might go to bed early.

[Roden]

VOTE: Punk

I'll buy into Dann's case.

Summarize danns case

Summarize deez nuts

[Roden]

You play with a tunnel vision on slots who suspect you. First Dann, and now myself. You didn't suspect me when I wasn't getting in your way that's true, but doesn't mean much.

He was pushing both of you before either of you out and said that you thought dp was scummy??

See oats can read AND represent things accurately

Oats is town

Be like oats

This is so over-the-top pockety towards Oats

Unless you're just claiming that anyone who can read and agrees with you is town?

[Roden]

I'm Jailkeeper, y'all are bad

[Roden]

Gonna be taking a break from this site after I get NK'd tonight, this game was unnecessarily insufferable

[Roden]

VOTE: Vivax

Lost too much good will after these last 20 pages

[Roden]

Why the fuck are we on page 80 with zero flips and zero info

[Roden]

Gonna be taking a break from this site after I get NK'd tonight, this game was unnecessarily insufferable

I don't blame you. It's like I'm speaking a different language trying to communicate with people

I said this earlier but it's basically half the player list experiencing culture shock with the other and both sides calling each other bad

It makes me think Punk is less likely to be scum and that townies on their site just play scum-adjacently

[Roden]

VOTE: Hu Tao

She's town, stop tunneling on incorrect assumptions

[Roden]

Gonna be taking a break from this site after I get NK'd tonight, this game was unnecessarily insufferable

I don't blame you. It's like I'm speaking a different language trying to communicate with people

I said this earlier but it's basically half the player list experiencing culture shock with the other and both sides calling each other bad

It makes me think Punk is less likely to be scum and that townies on their site just play scum-adjacently

You have a town read that agreed with a post that called them scum, this is hilarious

This literally never happened and was explained to you multiple times.

[Roden]

Even though that blanket agreement by Hu Tao looked like she told on herself, I‘d be willing to do Dunn or Naerys instead.

The more we write the more scum has to do reading they don‘t want to do the more easy it is for then to make mistakes.

This strat kept town from keeping up and then outed a PR

[Roden]

VOTE: Hu Tao

She's town, stop tunneling on incorrect assumptions

How do you know this, as someone who admits to not keeping up with the game?

I don't know this, and I did catch up with the game. I just town read her.

Why are you only questioning confident reads from certain players?

[Roden]

does anyone have a strong read on grackaroni at all

Not super strong but he's a lean town for me

[Roden]

I agree that Dunn's scum meta of barely existing implies he's scum here, but it's a lot less reliable of a tell in a hyper post game

I've noticed that he tends to fixate on mech and correcting niche mistakes from other players as town, which is something he's done here. I'm fine with openly saying that because I don't think he can easily replicate that kind of specific investment as town.

[Roden]

does anyone have a strong read on grackaroni at all

Not super strong but he's a lean town for me

Why

I just scrolled through his ISO

And idk there is nothing *scummy* exactly but nothing that makes me want to town read him

That's pretty much why. He doesn't seem scummy and generally he feels reasonable and cooperative with his posts.