Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[SuperfluousNinja]

I haven't read anything that's been said in the last 2-3 hours since I started writing this and I want to address Dannflor's post next. But feel free to ask questions and what not and I'll get to them in due time.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh and I started a new page...if you aren't aware, Ninja submitted an extremely massive post in post 499 that you should read.

[SuperfluousNinja]

In 120, Ninja responds to Vivax's theory that she might be scum with this:

Yeah. THIS is just nonsense. Why would an alleged scum version of myself want to make such clear lines in the sand when day 1 was, for me at least, less than an hour old? Like I know yall were talking while I was getting my beauty sleep, but the idea that I was actually trying to choose sides this early is just not logical.

The LAST thing any scum ever wants to do, like ever, and much less at the very very beginning of the game, is have any clear allegiance with anyone. So this theory of yours seems like poor theorycrafting IMO.

this response, especially the last line feels a lot more like a scum response to a perceived "inaccurate" accusation than a town response. the whole response is based around dissecting Vivax's logic and basically calling it bad, ergo Ninja cannot be scum. the primary motivation here is for Ninja to show that she cannot be scum based on Vivax's obviously faulty logic.

but I'm not sure why a town!Ninja isn't more suspicious of Vivax or trying to interrogate Vivax more on his thought process to try and determine his alignment. I would think a town!Ninja's primary motivation here would be to try and detect which alignment Vivax is coming from. Instead, the last line of this post seems to assume that Vivax is town, by calling his attack poor thinking, instead of considering that it might be fake.

I don't think it's fair to say that "this theory of yours seems like poor theorycrafting" is "assuming that Vivax is town". Scummy points of view generate poor theories. Or putting it another way, when you're scum, you know that you won't be able to develop any SOLID theories but will be expected to offer some nonetheless, so I expect what comes of that is poorly constructed theories, and here I'm suggesting that that could be one.

And frankly I thought I was interrogating Vivax here, but perhaps I needed to be more direct about it. My hope here was "this thing you said was confusing, how do you explain that?" I didn't directly write out this latter question, and perhaps I should have, but with the game being as early as it was, I mostly just wanted to put that out there and see what would come of it. Would he get defensive, would he just let it go, would he make an effort to explain it better, etc. I often prefer NOT to lead the people I'm talking to, I'm more about planting a seed and seeing what grows of it. Even something like whether he feels the need to refine his theorycrafting can be alignment-indicative.

From what I can tell, he largely let it go rather than getting defensive about it, and that would tip the needle in favor of townie in my book.

Her followup in 129 is again focused on Vivax not being "fair" and his summation of her gameplay so far being inaccurate. again, very focused on the inaccuracies and her presentation of herself.

I remember my objective with that post: I didn't feel great about Vivax and was getting a sense that Vivax could be a mafia type taking control of the conversation and kinda lording it over people. Like let me highlight this one in particular:

I guess what I'm asking for is that you take into consideration more than just that post from him while you have the advantage of being in a bystander position.

This seems needlessly controlling, tbh. Who says that's the only post from him that I've taken into consideration? It's the only one I commented on, sure, but it certainly isn't the only one I've considered.

If he thinks he can tell me how to play the game and how I ought to approach it, that puts him in a position of power, and I didn't like that at all. Even as a potential townie I don't like it. Everyone should be equals in this town at the very least, but at the time I was worried he could be scum (I'm still a little worried that he could be) so I REALLY didn't like him trying to control me. I guess I look at that and I view it more as a pushback against Vivax trying to take control moreso than I read it as me being defensive. I don't think it's fair to think that's what that post was about.

132 feels weird to me because she is immediately trying to undermine my strongest (and only at the time) town read. The tone of this post doesn't appear to indicate that Ninja actually thinks I'm suspicious for town reading DP, but rather it seems more geared towards trying to convince me to scum read him

Let me actually bring up what I said:

You made a legitimate point about how scum are more likely to take things seriously.

Darth argued with you at length about how random voting stage is rather silly, that each and every vote should be taken seriously. In other words, they made a case for why scum might take things seriously and created a space where their actions seem more understandable. They effectively tried to remove this strategy of yours to suspect people if they take things too seriously, which IMO is a totally valid strategy and your logic is sound, which now helps scum look less suspicious in this game if they overreact to things. Darth dispelled a totally valid point you made about something town could use to help find scum.

Your reaction to this was to forgive Darth and back off. Is that not, like, a bit odd? Aren't you concerned that Darth could be playing you here?

Your read on this is that you don't think I find you suspicious? I don't think that's a good take at all. I'm describing what I felt like was an odd move on your part and asking you to talk about it some more. I don't feel like I need to explicitly say "I have a suspicion that you are guilty!" for any of that to be portrayed as possibly thinking you are scum. Like I'm clearly pushing you here, and the push itself should send the message that I think you're suspicious.

Later, with Ninja's push on OutofOrder, I still don't really believe Ninja is trying to sort between who is scum and who isn't.

Like what do I need to do here to get you to actually explain your actions? Do you need me to vote for you to put the pressure on? Because I think I've reached that point.

In fact, Ninja's whole thing behind this vote is that it is very explicitly a pressure vote to get Out of Order to explain himself. She calls the behavior of outoforder "headscratching" but again I don't really get the vibe that Ninja thinks outoforder is scum.

How is me requesting information not "trying to sort between who is scum and who isn't"? That has to be the most unfair thing you've said in this post so far. Literally the point of any question anyone ever asks in this game is to try and sort that out. You don't "get the vibe that I think OOO is scum", well, that's because I didn't know WHAT to think of OOO and that's why I asked the questions that I asked. But you can't realistically argue that these questions were not in the spirit of trying to discern OOO's alignment.

I'm leaving my vote on OutOfOrder for now because I want to see my actions through on that one, but I'm fully in favor of a vote against Gob after all this.

I feel like this, again, betrays that the vote on OutOfOrder is very much just like... an optics thing that she feels too self-conscious to move before like getting some arbitrary amount of engagement from OoO.

First, I take issue with you portraying it as an "arbitrary" level of engagement with OOO. I want answers to my questions. Quite simply, I asked OOO questions and he didn't answer them. I just wanted the answers. That's very black-and-white, nothing "arbitrary" about it.

I don't particularly follow where you're going with saying that the vote was somehow about optics. How does it make me look to cast a vote on someone who was clearly not actually answering my questions or being helpful at the time? I feel like that's just kind of a natural thing a person would do if they were asking what I feel to be completely fair questions and they were just getting blown off. If it "looks good" to do something like that, that's because it IS good to do something like that.

It's also such a weird signpost that I think most often comes from scum who are planning their trajectory throughout the day, rather than a townie who is reacting to things naturally and doesn't necessarily know where their suspicions or vote might lead them next.

You don't think it is natural for me to elevate my actions when I'm not getting the response I want to my questions? I disagree completely.

Like, it is not at all clear to me why Ninja thinks that once OutOfOrder responds that she is going to stop suspecting him and be good to move onto gob.

Really?? That confuses the hell out of me. It isn't clear to you why answers to my questions might clear things up regarding my suspicions of OOO? Why do you think anyone asks questions in this game?

Instead, it sounds like she's already decided to stop suspecting OutOfOrder once he responds and Ninja can move onto pushing gob which is what she really wants to do. Like she "wants to see her actions through" which means what exactly?

It means I want answers to my questions and I'll react accordingly. You are making this a lot more complicated than it is and crafting some seemingly bizarre theories about my motivations. I don't know what I said there that would lead you to think that I just couldn't wait to stop pushing OOO so I could push someone else. Like why would a scum-aligned version of myself want to give up on a case on someone? Clearly people can push cases on more than one person, I mean, there are 3 scum in this game, are there not? But also, like, don't scum want pretty much EVERYONE to have some level of suspicion on them? Why would scum ever want to hurry up and STOP adding to the chaos and the scummy reads on townies in order to get some mislynches going? I just don't think this line of thinking adds up at all.

Furthermore, I feel like Ninja's interactions with gob have been very... "ahah! I've got you!"-coded

like gob seems disengaged thus far and clearly enjoys kinda being annoying towards Ninja. I don't think either of these features are super alignment indicative but Ninja's whole post 348 is about how gob's disengagement and "weirdness" must be from scum. and idk it just doesn't read genuine to me.

Well as I've said, my working theory is that gob is threatened by me and trying to get me to do and say less, so in that context, I would absolutely view the "being annoying towards Ninja" as a sign of guilt. At the very least, it sure as hell isn't townie at all for any member to "annoy" someone else and publicly admit that you aren't reading anything that the other person has to say. That's clearly not being a team player at all. I guess I don't really care if you FEEL LIKE it is genuine at all; I've given the facts as I present them and tried to give as much concrete basis for it as I can, and there's nothing genuine / disingenuous about the truth! It IS true that gob pushed a vote without understanding why he did so (he admitted to such and I proved it), and it IS true that he's not even trying to be a team player with me.

some of this read stems from me town reading all of roden/gob/outoforder and I think gob in particular is a pretty juicy target to push as scum because a lot of his logic looks surface level scummy and I don't think he particularly cares about being town read as town, so Ninja launching into a huge case about why gob is scum (while keeping a contrived vote on outoforder) looks bad to me

More than anything else, I want you to explain to me why you think Roden is town. I don't think Roden has done a single blooming thing to make himself look town. I don't follow that case at all. I mean I encourage you to dig into that one in par

And bringing OOO into this, you submitted this post before OOO re-entered and made a better demonstration of towniness, so the fact that you townread him at the time is something I feel odd about. So sure, I can see how you townreading 3 people who I think are guilty would logically lead you to suspecting me, but I do indeed think you're flat-out wrong on Roden and Gob and I think your read on OOO at the time that you submitted this post is not warranted. I don't think OOO was being helpful before today and I don't think it's great to give him a townread at that time. TODAY, sure, I read OOO as town, but when you submitted this, I definitely wouldn't have agreed.

also i think the way she's played around the whole Roden vs. oats master thing has been kinda one dimensional. Like she basically went into that and immediately decided it was an SvT and oatsmaster was town and Roden was pretty sus.

"Immediately decided"? I don't think I even got involved at all until it was largely over, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I did what I did with any submissions on this site, I read the whole thing and reached some conclusions on it. I wouldn't reach those conclusions hours later after I finished reading it; I'd reach them when I was done reading. And I may have some follow-up questions, but I also might not. My read was that Oats was clearly being a jerk, and like I've said, though I frown on that behavior, I read that as townie behavior, whereas Roden didn't get that read and also seemed to start that up after I dropped the thing about saying that I think lurking is scummy.

Like just to recap the chain of events here, post 230 and 234:

If activity levels, or lack thereof, are an indication of guilt, then I'd be very suspicious of Dunnstral, Naerys, and Roden. And obviously MalcolmTucker but they might be afk and getting replaced.

What lack of activity?

Then post 239, just 5 posts later, is the beginning of the Roden vs Oats thing:

unluckily vivax might be scum, thats a shame

otherwise, RVS in a instant majority lynch is a fucking terrible idea and yall should be ashamed of creating that site culture. Absolutely absurd

???

What exactly do you expect to happen?

Someone getting quick yeeted because people are being funny

VOTE: Oats

Don't believe this faux outrage

So I don't think it's crazy for me to think that perhaps I lit a fire under Roden's ass and was possibly at least partially responsible for creating the conditions that led to this. Roden needed to generate content and so he started posting a lot but focused entirely on conversations with just one person which is much easier to manage. Maybe it's a lot of confirmation bias on my part, but especially in the greater context of how unhelpful Roden has been in this game, I don't see much reason to doubt my theory.

although it doesn't appear Ninja is interested in actually pushing that and would like the conflict to keep going?

What?? What makes you think that? For real, I'd like you to show me a quote or anything I wrote at all that suggests that I want this conflict to keep going, because I know in my mind that that's not what I want at all. I mean I can quote you how I've said multiple times now how I actually frowned very heavily on their interaction and thought it went too far. I've talked at length at this point about how I think Oats is being too rude, so clearly I don't want that to keep going. How did you come up with the conclusion that I felt otherwise? Show me something.

Overall, before I decide what bucket I want to put you in, I need to hear an explanation for why you think Roden is town.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Okay, I need a shower lol. Again I encourage anyone who still thinks I'm guilty after reading all of this to ask me what they want, push me on anything, interrogate me in any way you see fit.

For now I'm going to place my vote on who I scumspect the strongest.

VOTE: Roden

[Naerys]

Do you think that Naerys voting pattern looks bad ? What makes her stand out for you over Dunn and Hu Tao ?

what pattern? i am still in my rvs

[Naerys]

Okay, give me more of an opportunity to explain myself. Unapologetic wall of text, and I'm not going to apologize for it, but please at least do me the courtesy of reading it if you genuinely suspect that I'm scum (especially looking at the likes of gob here). I just write a lot, and I often think about what a fucking killer that will be if people play with me long enough and I actually roll scum, because there's NO fucking way I could sustain this level of output if I had to make up literally everything I was doing. A quick disclaimer, remember also that there's a human behind this account, and I'm looking primarily at oats with this one. Just because you suspect someone is scum, that doesn't give you permission to be rude and hostile to them. Oats, you pull that shit with me where you insult my intelligence like you did on Roden just because you think I'm not aligned with you, we are going to have a HUGE fucking problem, you understand? I don't care if you think I'm so scummy that not even the most intense bathroom cleaner on the planet could make a dent in me; you don't treat the actual human like shit over a fucking form game. Please do your utmost to remember that.

My reads have shifted from last night. Regarding Dannflor, frankly I just missed post 374 in the chaos of last night and only saw the vote on top of the next page voting for me, but now that I've read post 374, I have a lot to say about it, which I will reserve for a separate post (and I will need to work through it completely to arrive at a proper read of Dannflor). The tl;dr version is that you'll see almost every single thing he said there is prefaced with "I feel like", it is just a slew of confirmation bias, and if you guys decide to lynch me today and Dannflor is actually a townie, Dannflor is going to have a HELL of a time sorting out why his gut instincts betrayed him so badly here. But anyway, let me explain better where I am at with everyone.

TOWN READS

Luca

- This post in particular struck me as very townie and very helpful:

Defensive: 234, 248 (btw, I think Oats' comment in 237 was fair and reflected my own thoughts at the time, hence my vote)

Aggressive/Potential Power-wolfing: 263, 264, 268, 274

Yes, you later walked this back by saying you weren't being entirely serious, but that in itself I find somewhat suspect.

Like this demonstrates that they aren't going based on feels and other common excuses that scum will make, none of that "well I played other games in the past with this person and have this gut instinct based on information from those games that none of you played and thus nobody has the ability to corroborate any of it" bullshit, they're making a case from things actually present and happening in THIS game which we can all see with our own eyes, and that strikes me as townie. They have also requested more information from people, like wanting to hear more from Roden in post 304, wanted more information from Dannflor in 371. They're doing a nice deep dive of OOO's recent posts in posts 465 and 467, trying to sort it out and understand it, and that level of dive / solviness suggests town to me.

I am encouraged also by the fact that Luca "reads Roden as scum independently", which is exactly how I feel also.

Oatsmaster

- My townread is largely based on my conclusion that acting like an asshole is townie. Oatsmaster has clearly crossed lines with belligerence in this game, and while I don't appreciate that in the slightest, I do give it credit for being a strong town tell, as it would otherwise show a near sociopathic level of arrogance and bravado to actually attack other people's character over their alleged personal stupidity for suspecting one's self to be evil. I prefer the far simpler and more likely explanation that he's just letting his position of innocence go to his head and his in-game moral superiority of not being evil give him some carte blanche to beat up on the baddies in ways that kinda cross the line. He is overly aggressive, like in post 212 calling gob's read "insanely terrible" (I'm not saying it's a good read, I think it's a bad case, but I am saying that "insanely terrible" absolutely is aggressive and belligerent language), 215 he said "Wow I can hold 2 separate thoughts in my head big whoop lol." which is quite condescending, and 259 frankly I think Oats owes Roden an apology for the personal insult, but again, it's hard to see how a scum writes a post like 259, where they actually insult someone's intelligence over a disagreement. Maybe I don't know Oats well enough and he really IS that arrogant, but it just seems much, much more likely to me that all that comes from the perspective of a cocky townie.

DarthPunk

- I was initially wary of Darth for post 57, and at that stage of the game I think my pressure / thoughts on the matter were entirely appropriate, being concerned that when he said "I’m trying to be a bit careful not to jump all over someone for not meeting my high expectations", that this could be a scum tell as scum always wants to remain flexible and wants to avoid having to switch gears.

But otherwise, post 382 was obviously a very helpful post and it isn't just a bunch of vibes agreeing and disagreeing, it is pushing people to explain certain things (including myself, which I appreciate, as I don't want anyone to be confused by what I am doing and encourage questions). I'm okay with Darth's wary stance on OutOfOrder (even though I currently read OOO as town...it's probably a light town read for me) and I align with Darth's thinking that Gob and Roden are scum. Bonus points for actually committing to / documenting a reads list without being prompted for it, which always strikes me as a townie thing to do. So I'm bumping Darth up to the Town column for now.

OutOfOrder

- After post 451, I feel a lot better about them. I wanted them to explain why they thought Luca was guilty and they delivered. I do still want an explanation on gob as I don't think I see them laying down their case anywhere, but their content contributions here are a lot more helpful and I feel better about OOO because of it, so

UNVOTE: OutOfOrder

There's been a bit of chatter about why I left my vote on OOO for so long and "why does Ninja still think OOO is guilty". I hope you realize that I was just waiting for more information / content from their end and wasn't going to change my mind about them until I got that, and it didn't actually come until this morning for understandable life reasons, so please don't be holding it against me for not sorting out my feelings on OOO prior to finally getting some answers. And again, bonus points for the reads list.

NULL READS

Dannflor

- will follow up in a subsequent post. I may move Dannflor out of null after I do it.

Vivax

- I think I am the most genuinely null on Vivax, but I possibly (POSSIBLY, not PROBABLY) lean more towards town than anything else. Mostly I would like to directly interact with Vivax more to get a better feel for him. I think my issue here is that I disagree with a lot of Vivax's views, but I can't deny that they are making a concerted effort to justify them. Like post 305, which ends with "Dann/OOO/Oats would be my picks for today", I guess the jury is out for me on Dann but AT THAT TIME I likely would have agreed with it, I think the read AT THAT TIME on OutOfOrder was appropriate (this was before OOO cleared things up with the post this morning), but I don't agree with the scum read on Oats at all. And post 309, Vivax thinks Roden is "very townie" and I don't agree with that at all. It's notable that, in Post 427, Vivax then changed their read on Dann after Dann's big post on me, and it is perhaps more townie / less scummy to willingly give up on a scum read from the day before. I would think a scum would be less likely to rather quickly change a read on someone based on one post, but I guess it's possible that Vivax is also just sailing with the winds of change and following the general direction of town and jumping on that very popular Ninja bandwagon right now.

Ultimately I just need more interaction with Vivax to sort this out and I encourage and welcome any and all of it.

Dunnstral

- 7 total posts as of writing this, and the only thing they've really talked about is a take on meta game analysis in post 372, about whether activity level is a sign of guilt. This is as good a time as any to explain my real intent with bringing up the fact that I think less activity is a sign of guilt: it was purely to try and light a fire under the asses of scum and get them to post more. My hope was that it would scare scum lurkers into providing more content, which is great, because the more scum has to say and the more content they have to provide, the more likely they are to screw up and get caught. When you're guilty, you increase your chances of getting caught every time you touch your keyboard and I don't think any scum is unaware of this fact, and I absolutely believe that plays out in games like this.

I mean I will fucking DIE on that hill, that I believe that the guilty just say less, and I cannot fathom why anyone legitimately believes otherwise. I am sympathetic to the view that it doesn't make for a

solid

case against anyone, but you have to be COMPLETELY off your rocker if you don't actually believe that the guilty are simply less likely to say stuff in this game, period.

So on that note, if you're town and you pushed back on me on this, just literally

what the fuck are you doing???

Were you not able to tell why a person might say something like this? If you are actually town and you argued against me on this, not only did you make what I think is a pretty dumb argument, you also just completely obliterated my move to try and scare scum into talking more, and at this point you've done that REALLY effectively, as now scum can look at all the pushback I got for trying to argue that low activity level means something and they can kick back with their cuppa tea or whatever calming beverage they prefer to consume and just let us townies provide all the content eating each other up while doing next to nothing to provide that content that will look scummy. Like, use your heads, people, and understand the implications of your thoughts and actions.

But I digress, the fact that Dunnstral offered so little content and that the only content is meta game analysis, I lean more scum, but there's just not enough content here to really nail that read down.

Hu Tao

- 16 total posts as of writing this, also very minimal levels of engagement. I lean more towards scum than town. They jumped aboard the choo choo SuperfluousNinja train and really only justified it based on a disagreement about meta game analysis (whether the guilty talk more or less), just like Dunnstral did. It strikes me as flimsy to think someone is guilty just because you have a different interpretation of what activity levels mean and strikes me as even MORE flimsy to legitimately believe that saying and doing less doesn't suggest that a person is more likely to be scum.

Naerys

- 8 total posts as of writing this. I will say she definitely leans scum based on what little is here, though, as it shows a very, very minimal level of engagement and is entirely unhelpful to town.

SCUM READS

Gob

- I think I have a completely legitimate reason to suspect gob after they tossed out this vote on me with the justification that my vote on OOO was "pretty bad" (see post 336) but then subsequently admitted that they hadn't even tried to understand why my vote was there. Why would a townie make a point of saying "that move was bad" when they don't even understand the move and made no effort to sort it out? More importantly, why isn't a townie interested in understanding this stuff, period? Gob doesn't just SEEM disengaged from this game;

he openly admits that he is.

(see post 353) And that is indeed scummy, since scum does not have any compelling reason to engage and figure things out, to ask meaningful questions and get to the bottom of anything, since they know exactly who is who.

Otherwise, just look at his ISO and tell me what you think is useful or moving the game forward at all. I find next to nothing in this ISO that does that. Post 322 sticks out as odd, by the way:

Vivax is probably the mafia in that pool.

everyone get on vivax

Just says this, doesn't explain why, doesn't offer any logic behind it, and I don't think hardly anyone else really vibes with this sentiment anyway so it feels very necessary to actually try and explain this, and that just doesn't happen.

And yes, you can tack on the terrible logic behind post 185 which has already been discussed at length here, as well as the whole "I'm posting just to post" stuff. It all adds up to a solid scum read of gob for me.

I still insist that I have scared gob with how active I am. Post 175 is neuroticism about excessive content. I am somewhat arrogantly assuming that at least one scum, if not all scum, have caught on to how engaged I am in this game, and they feel really threatened by that and are thus trying to get me killed and are going into overdrive to shut me up. I'll be really curious to follow up on this theory after the game ends.

Roden

- Defensiveness, defensiveness, defensiveness. That's what the case boils down to for me. He's even being defensive about the fact that he's being defensive! (post 344) Scum are obviously a lot more likely to be defensive since survival is their only real goal in this game, whereas town really shouldn't be quite as concerned with staying alive and is more concerned with moving the game forward, getting the truth out there, etc. I still think post 302 was incredibly dismissive, and post 294 openly admits to being unhelpful:

I have thoughts on other players but you get them when you get them

Like what has Roden done so far? He focused interactions with Oats for a long time and later cast a vote for OutOfOrder without any explanation. That's, like, the extent of what Roden has done in this whole game, so for the life of me I wouldn't understand where a town read of Roden could possibly come from.

There's also the absent

MalcolmTucker

slot, and it is of course entirely possible they are scum, so we might have only been chasing 2 scum this whole time instead of 3 and IMO people need to be a lot more mindful of that, if they are already trying to theorycraft 3-person teams.

Thank you for reading all of this. One closing thought, I have absolutely nothing to hide and I'm not afraid of any of you or anything you might ask, so if there's anything I did or said that you still do not understand, please please PLEASE ask me about it. Please avoid a reaction of "eh, my read on all this is that Ninja is guilty, the end, I don't have any further questions" if you can.

I added my links to the posts at the end. If I missed any or mislinked anything, that was an error and not intentional.

Also I promise I'll never write anything this long again. Believe me, I don't want to lol

Wow that took me hours and I haven't even gotten to Dannflor yet. FML

I AM NOT READING THIS, CAN YOU STOP POSTING SUCH RIDICULOUS WALLS OF POSTS

[Hu Tao]

Basically my case on GOB is that he openly stated he was posting for the sake of posting.

That is mafia 101 scummy. What can I say? I am a simple man, I see a scum claim, I vote.

I don't think this is scummy

town post for the sake of posting probably more often than scum

This is just not true

Agreed with oats and Darth here

[outoforder]

Lets discuss something important...

Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO

These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.

Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.

VOTE: Vivax

gob at the time of this post did you really believe in what you are saying here?
If yes, do you still believe in this heuristic or not, and if not, when did you stop believing in it?

[Hu Tao]

Anyways here is where i basically stand at the moment:
Town:
Dannflor
Vivax
Oatsmaster
gob
Roden
Probs town:
DarthPunk
Scummers be here:
Luca Blight
Dunnstral
Naerys
SuperfluousNinja
Hu Tao
Replaced:
MalcolmTucker

My problem is, while Dann's case on Ninja is good and reasonably sound, currently pretty much all of my scum pool agree with that.
So basically i am either very wrong, or if Ninja is mafia, there's probably one mafia agreeing with the case and then the Malcolm slot.
I have some reservations, but i would like to wait for Ninja to give her opinion on what Dann said, before going deeper on this.

I was going to say what you said in the paragraph after seeing your list

[Hu Tao]

Because youre good playing as mafia.

So their town and scum games are similar?

[Naerys]

I dont really see any chemistry between those order mentioned, so order themselves could be scum

[Naerys]

*those order mentioned as SR

[Hu Tao]

What makes you to go from this:

But you also think Luca looks scummy when he seems like the sanest person itt so meh, you might be mafia after all.

VOTE: outoforder

I agree that Luca doesn't looks scummy like OoO is saying but I did like one post from him so far.

to this...

Maybe OoO but like I said I don't have much of a strong read

?

They asked me for a scumread and I didn't have one. Which is why I said in the post that I don't have a strong read at the time and it was a maybe. Only because I didn't agree with the read, nothing really else

[Hu Tao]

Gonna put my vote here for now.
VOTE: Naerys
Complete lackluster today.

As a side note, how do spoilers actually work here? They seem to be not working correctly in my mind.

Just letting you know, regardless of alignment this is how naery posts. Not a whole lot of content.

[Naerys]

Gonna put my vote here for now.
VOTE: Naerys
Complete lackluster today.

As a side note, how do spoilers actually work here? They seem to be not working correctly in my mind.

Just letting you know, regardless of alignment this is how naery posts. Not a whole lot of content.

What can i say, i prefer to observe from backround

[Hu Tao]

Oh my god. Almost everyone in this game writes such long paragraphs each post.

[Hu Tao]

Scum please kill one of the long posters. I don't care which. It's too hard to catch up reading essays every post

[Naerys]

Unless its actually SCUM who are writing those endless posts

[Hu Tao]

Unless its actually SCUM who are writing those endless posts

There is like 7 of them. They can't all be scum

[Naerys]

Unless its actually SCUM who are writing those endless posts

There is like 7 of them. They can't all be scum

Trees hiding in a forest

[outoforder]

I dont really see any chemistry between those order mentioned, so order themselves could be scum

Can you explain the logic between this?

[outoforder]

behind*

[gob]

holy fuck 2 sentences or less my friend

[SuperfluousNinja]

Going over old posts a bit.

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

now, why isn't this a vote instead of an FoS

This was dann’s best post imo

I’m bothered by all the other stuff but maybe that is normal here?

I’m trying to be a bit careful not to jump all over someone for not meeting my high expectations.

This feels a little all over the place. The "this was their best post" already tripped my wires since the game is, like, 3 pages old. That's like saying the second verse of the first song of Taylor Swift's new album is the best part of the album while you're listening to it for the first time ever.

But then there's an attempted takesies-backsies with the "I'm trying to be careful" thing. If you want to be careful, it seems like a first sensible step would be to not try and summarize such a small sample size of material.

To summarize and make my point a little clearer, I generally find statements like "well don't take what I said too seriously" to be scummy.

I'm curious about this approach that I didn't like at glance back then. It felt like a very safe, scumhunty post to make but is also a bit too much out to get DP at that early stage.
Part 1: Complaint that it's too early for him to have valid reads.
Part 2: Complaint about DP summarizing (which is what Luca actually did with Dann's posts and DP townread him for) while DP seemed like he was townreading Dann for wanting me to exacerbate my suspicions on him.

The next post is a bit of a misrepresentation. It frames DP as if he was invalidating his own reasoning when he was just assigning a lower weight to his early thoughts. The way it reads one could think that Darth was just posting things that wouldn't have meaning for his process but I don't think that was the case.

To summarize and make my point a little clearer, I generally find statements like "well don't take what I said too seriously" to be scummy.

I tend to agree in general. In this instance I was referencing specifically coming from a different site with a heavily cultivated metagame and finding it a bit jarring playing when I don’t understand others expectations and weird random shit is happening that I would usually not expect is going on.

This response from him is unusually tame in my opinion. It's like it didn't bother him as much as it should have that Ninja was insta-scumreading him for not wanting to overcommit to the little information he had. Especially the 'attempted takseybacksies'-part implies that Ninja should have a strong scumread on him because she automatically assumes he's trying to weasel himself out of something, but there's not really a followup to her DP read, instead she switches to going after OOO afterwards.

Partnered, maybe?

Do you have reasons for thinking Darth is scum beyond just his tame reaction to an early fishing attempt? You take issue with what I said being a little too early in the game, but here the only reason you're giving for suspecting Darth is likewise built on a read of something they did early in the game. Either early-game stuff is relevant or it isn't. Feels like you are trying to have your cake and eat it too on this angle.

More specifically, did post 382 clear anything up for you? Did you even read it.... I ask because, for me, that post cleared up a lot of my feelings towards Darth and I now lean pretty heavily towards Darth as town.

[Vivax]

It‘s a bit much to digest. I think it would help your cause a lot if you and Dannflor would just KISS.






And by that I mean to keep it simple, stupid.

Makes it easier to extrapolate what in the fuck you want to be doing at all because it looks like everything at once and it feels like I‘m chasing a headless horseman to find out.

Anyway. It‘s tricky. I find it bad for Oats that I was the only one really suspecting him so far while I think there‘s reason to, so I‘ll have another go ar him.