Open 902: Frienemies Blitz | Postgame

[light_ganski]

let's go

VOTE: davesaz

[light_ganski]

join me on the light side

VOTE: dannflor

[light_ganski]

i think so too
VOTE: dannflor

a flygon after my own heart

join us gob

[light_ganski]

hmmmm

[light_ganski]

VOTE: naerys

Serious vote btw

Wanna elaborate? or not yet

p-edit Okay let me think

[light_ganski]

i think its Dann-python-Black

VOTE: naerys

Serious vote btw

I smell something fishy already

getting negative energy from this post

I smell something fishy already

getting negative energy from this post

getting trying to discredit vibes from this post

This is pinging me

Not sure why yet

[light_ganski]

Hmmmm

[light_ganski]

The Naerys reaction feels too strong for page 2 I think

Like the "This wagon sus" feels too strapped in too early, it's not floaty

Maybe.

[light_ganski]

VOTE: usesPython

serious vote btw

Why python?

[light_ganski]

feels like they want to be seen like they are doing something

Yeah that's one of the things I thought

[light_ganski]

The other is that naerys v python looks kinda inorganic

[light_ganski]

Btw VOTE: usesPython

[light_ganski]

It would take me more than 15 minutes to catch up.

Same :/

[light_ganski]

The other is that naerys v python looks kinda inorganic

Is that a Python inorganic, Naerys inorganic, or both sides inorganic?

Both sides inorganic

[light_ganski]

I personally just found the 'trying to discredit' thing on a blank page 2 scumread to be sorta offputting

I don't really get the python scumreads, I think town often try to get the game started with sort of questionable early reads.

Eh I see your point

[light_ganski]

Sup do you need a T-Bone hero solve? It can be yours for only 5 easy payments of 99.99

Do we get a discount if we sign up Day 1?

[light_ganski]

Next person to make the most convincing scum case explaining why Drew is scum gets my vote for the rest of the day

Pro tip: you cant

Why not? You have tried before when I wasn't scum.

So you're scum now?

[light_ganski]

LG feels townie

57 kinda pinged me but Naerys pings me a lot when she's town so I'm not really taking it too seriously

57 is Save the Dragons though right?

[light_ganski]

VOTE: ranger

This feels like a really strange vote. 1) ranger's not in your solve and 2) ranger isn't here yet so why not put pressure on an actual read

[light_ganski]

P'edit ranger just arrived ofc

[light_ganski]

I very strongly dislike 74

I think if you want to actually talk about way too strong/defensive reactions early in the game, this one from Python is actually scummy

it has the quality of an over defensive reaction while very intentionally trying to seem like they optically don't care

hence the ":shrug:" despite it definitely bothering them given the content of the post and them later slotting me as a "no-no zone read"

I agree with this

[light_ganski]

I know you hate it when people ask you to explain reads but I'd like for you to explain this one if you could

Do you think this is AI for gob?

[light_ganski]

(I'm saying that as someone who has no knowledge of his meta btw)

[light_ganski]

People need to start locking in, it's only 3 days to deadline and feels like nothing's happened

Counterpoint we are only one day in

[light_ganski]

I haven't seen her recently enough to know. In fact not sure if I've seen her before.

I think I've seen you before. but it would've been once or twice years ago

[light_ganski]

I just want to quote this fully because I think the end reaction by Python to my thinking aloud very early push on them is... like not a town reaction

i don't feel Python cares about actually sorting me (especially considering they later lump me into a scum read pile) but rather is here to solely play defense and "win" this interaction we had

Mind meld honestly.

Same

Does anyone who knows them know if python is this reactive as town?

[light_ganski]

pretty general scum tell that I've had a lot of success using is outsized emotional reactions when the prompt doesn't match up. it doesn't really matter if it's defensiveness or sadness or anger, or what have you. the fact is i don't think my push matches up with python's reaction, which i think is unnatural

also another element to it is python also leaning into trying to look unbothered by my read on them? which i would think if town and having a naturally defensive reaction would not feel the need to do

This is the vibe I was referencing, Light. But as I said, it could be some character growth. Not wanting to get into it with other players over silly things is a Good Thing regardless of alignment.

Yep I see what you both mean

[light_ganski]

Whoever it was that said gob+black, I don't think I see them as scum together

[light_ganski]

SRs: python, naerys, maybe gob

Was scumreading dannflor the first five pages or so, now more null

There's a whole lot of null in this game

TR black for now, davesaz, ranger's entry seems null-town

[light_ganski]

Ausuka seems town as well

[light_ganski]

Dragons feels very fluffy so far

[light_ganski]

light_ganski

T-Bone

Doctor Drew

davesaz

gob

Cook

Naerys

Black

usesPython

Ranger

Dannflor

Ausuka

Can u explain your cook and ausuka reads?

[light_ganski]

cook i want her to explain 101 because maybe i just misinterpreted it so i'm holding my tongue on that

ausuka feels off with her push on naerys, i may be biased but i think 107 is self-explanatory so i don't get 126, it seems like she's just asking questions just to ask them and not really doing much of anything to progress the game

Thank u

Holding judgement on cook

[light_ganski]

Dragons feels very fluffy so far

An overall towntell. He can fake it, yet his content suggests this is yet another town game from him.

Yh I see this

Ranger's entry pings me more and more town btw

[light_ganski]

I think I'm comfortable calling light ganski town

Should I post this in the main thread too or will that confirm Python's hero solve?

um wat

[light_ganski]

fluffy pink balloon feels like LHF to me a bit

I was starting to rethink my naerys scumread

But nvm

[light_ganski]

Good vote

[light_ganski]

Lets see where this goes VOTE: Naerys

[light_ganski]

{ranger}

{ausuka, davesaz}
{black, t-bone, save the dragons}

{dannflor}

{gob, python}

{naerys}

Not enough info on drew and cook

[light_ganski]

Apologies I'll do it w headings next time

[light_ganski]

Hah.

[light_ganski]

Scum team might be ranger+light+python

Suddenly I'm wondering whether python might be town...

[light_ganski]

So the more info the better

15 pages in... got any thoughts so far besides that?

[light_ganski]

But, what thoughts exactly did I give?

This seems a bit like posting to post.

Townread on python

[light_ganski]

(Would now put Doctor Drew as null on my list btw)

[light_ganski]

im thinking we lim python

Would definitely go you over Python

Wow same here we'd also lim gob over ourselves

If python is mason well that makes three

Also very jittery about how my three least townie reads barring python up to this point are all voting python

[light_ganski]

If python is mason well that makes three

Also very jittery about how my three least townie reads barring python up to this point are all voting python

/are the only three votes on python, rather

[light_ganski]

/I'll post properly once I'm in later but I'm now thinking pythons a townlean

[light_ganski]

okay catch up time

Drew's entry is null leaning town

Ranger's 395-396, I can soooooooort of see where she's coming from?
Certainly w python I now think I was reading too much into their early interactions n I no longer think they're scum

Dannflor I had as a scumlean out of rvs and moved him to null later mostly on vibes, I'm reading thru the dann/python interactions in detail now cos theres like a page of it standby

[light_ganski]

yeah I'm getting town energy from python on dannflor

I've read thru dannflor's post 398 and dann's comment about python trying to win the interaction in 71-73-74 stood out to me

Bcos like in context I was SRing python at the same time and had voted python and I didn't think python's response here was particularly bad?

So I was surprised to see dannflor pulling it out as particularly standout

[light_ganski]

like I thought it was an overreaction and I said so in 197

but considering other people have said this isn't AI for python it's standing out to me

[light_ganski]

Idk I think I'm reading too much into the python-dannflor interaction right now, could be town v town I think I might need a cuppa and to reread this when I'm less tired

[light_ganski]

I can nulltown them both but then I feel like I'm missing a scum somewhere

[light_ganski]

python specifically

could you explain the dannflor read? like is it deeper than just "this seems like a scum tunnel"

[light_ganski]

Cook's lurking feels not good

[light_ganski]

but again not enough info

[light_ganski]

{ranger}

{ausuka, davesaz}
{black, t-bone, save the dragons}

{dannflor}

{gob, python}

{naerys}

Not enough info on drew and cook

I put davesaz in my townside here but I've just re-ISO'd him and theres so much null
He's asked a couple of questions (102, 370, 371) but a couple of them seem... like not really advancing the gamestate much?

Like if there's low energy scum davesaz is as good a possibility as cook

[light_ganski]

Naerys and gob ISO

16-17-18 rvs interaction
Then gob puts naerys in his page 2 solve (26)
Naerys responds (27-28) in a minute

Neither interacts with or references the other until Naerys says gob is pushed for being gob (307)

Then Naerys proposes a ranger-me-python scumteam (361) and gob responds within 5 mins (363)

The first organic looking interaction is gob's 483 and naerys's response 489

And then 498 where gob says he doesn't know why people haven't found naerys townie.

This could be "naerys and gob coordinating a couple of interactions in the scum pt and otherwise ignoring each other for the first 480 posts"

But even if I'm wrong on Naerys, 498 feels like scum buddying?

VOTE: gob

[light_ganski]

{ausuka, ranger}
{save the dragons}
{black}
{usespython, t-bone, dannflor, doctor drew}
---
{davesaz, cook}
---
{naerys}
{gob}

I'll think more after I've slept

PEdit: I think you're scummier.

[light_ganski]

Why is gob scummier? I'm not saying I disagree with you but I'm curious what you think

(Couldn't sleep. Will try to be quick.)

1) If gob is town I cannot understand the motivation behind his interactions with Naerys (including, though it came after my last post, the point davesaz has already made about suggesting I should be voting Naerys rather than him). Even if I disregard how inorganic the near instant replies to each others reads looks (already in my above post) and look at gob in isolation, this feels like a pretty naked attempt to buddy the low activity common scumread :

So why arent we voting python?

i am

Nice. Ive found you towny btw idk why others havent. no offense but i think sometimes you can be lhf type

This post is btw most of the reason I wanted to take my vote off naerys, bcos while I still think naerys looks really bad this has me super paranoid.

2) I don't understand the motivation behind the push on python, especially since when asked why, this was his response:

I feel like Dannflors analysis said it wel enough. For me i have sorta ruled out a lot of others, but python consistently does moves that i feel are anti-town.

i dont feel as strongly on anyone, except maybe T-bone as their is a contrast in how T-bone was talking about the V/LA stuff and how T-bone talked about everything else. Feels like scum

This doesn't look to me like an honest or organic read, it looks like gob taking an easy path to seeming involved by hard pushing someone who's been scumread by a couple other players (357, 381, 442, 452, 465), and then falling back on someone else's case when asked to back it up so he doesn't have to present an honest view of the gamestate. The second line in particular seems like he's trying to hedge what *he actually thinks* is anti-town about python's play (and I'm saying this from a position of not initially liking python's early reactiveness myself to the point where I was asking if this was alignment indicative for them).

And 3) Gut.

On the other hand Naerys's ISO just feels low content beyond 1) defending gob twice and 2) also FoSing python in 146 (she made the ranger+me+python solve after this in 361). I'd go w Naerys over no elimination but otoh the naerys wagon didn't feel like it was going anywhere fast when u consider the several scumreads on her, so I'd rather push my top SR

[light_ganski]

As an aside I think "naerys and gob are scumbuddies" and "gob is scum, buddying townie naerys" are both possible solutions to what I'm seeing in their combined ISO, but the common thread is that gob is scum either way

[light_ganski]

Alright how about the peoppe voting me talk to me.

I am ready tk answer any questions. I stand by all my plays and reads. I feel like there are also at least 2 wolves on my wagon given how quick things ran up.

I dont want to die day 1 so, get off and stuff everyone

Hi yes I have a question pls

Did you townread Naerys only bcos of sharing her feelings on the gamestate, or something else?

[light_ganski]

But yeah the Dann read is pretty much entirely from how he approached our slot

Thank u

I wanted to try and solidify a read on his slot and wanted to know if there was anything more to it

[light_ganski]

Anyway, what does everyone think about the idea that there are one or two wolves on my wagon? I feel like given how quickly it ran up to 4 or 5 or whatever, and knowing that Black is more likely town trying to pressure me. So davesaz, Drew.

why not light

could be i was just listing the people i knew off the top of my head

for what it’s worth but though, i dont really see as many partners for light compared to Dave and drew. Dave could really go with anyone considering how detached he’s been imo.

That is one thing i guess going for python, the fact python has taken strong stances, however i feel like they are scum and doing scum things pretty clearly. I am gonna stick with my read

Second question for u actually out of curiosity. Since you're in it, what do you think of ranger's solve in 395?

[light_ganski]

Yea i agreed with her on something. She is more null-lean town if i had to say. Seen some towny stuff but definitely not out of her scum range.

I think its totally wrong basically. I can sorta understand the distancing between me and black from a certain point of view. Dont really see jt with black and dann or me and dann.

Okay thank u. I'm tryna work out if my response to you is influenced by playstyle because I take ausuka's point in 537 and I think I've been struggling to get gob's mindset

[light_ganski]

Fully agreeing with ausuka's comments about the gamestate (539). I'm standing by my case but I was also surprised how stagnant the wagons were before the gob one

[light_ganski]

Yh I gave t-bone's ISO another skim earlier bcos I'd been thinking he hadn't been that active and when I realised he'd made over 40 posts I wondered why he was under my radar. But I don't see it

[light_ganski]

Hmm, confused. Why did gob think Naerys was a top wagon?

This is still a legit question and central to why I'm still feeling not good things about gob, even though I didn't mind his answers to me earlier. Naerys never had more than three votes

[light_ganski]

My falloff in the light_ganski read likely takes the most explanation. I don't think light is scum with Black; I don't think light is scum with Dann; light's more recent content has rubbed me wrong and triggered my "player deepwolfing" reflexes, because it looked like the takes of scum setting themselves up rather than town working things through. However, if light were scum light would still need partners and I don't see who light's setting up for an endgame. I'm willing to chalk this up to paranoia for now, but pends investigation when I can.

I've vibed with T-Bone's content indicating he's town here. His approach feels his normal town approach. He's not a lock for town because he deliberately mirrors this as scum, yet I feel he's not showing signs of deliberate forethought behind his actions.

davesaz has demonstrated what I believe is a solving mindset. He's put in more than the bare minimum to avoid elimination, which I feel indicates town.

Cook is guilty of the exact things Drew has been accused of and not enough people are talking about it. Cook has done nothing and has lurked into being ignored by players. If any of my scumreads are wrong, Cook is my top choice because I know Cook is better than this as town even on a bad day.

This is all townie thought process imho. The paranoia reads town tm and I take what you mean RE davesaz even though I'd still put him in my null pile.

I think cook would be a cop out elimination but I'd go there if there's no will behind gob

[light_ganski]

Yh I gave t-bone's ISO another skim earlier bcos I'd been thinking he hadn't been that active and when I realised he'd made over 40 posts I wondered why he was under my radar. But I don't see it

I'm just constantly beyond the 12 hour prod range.

I get you dw. I mean I didn't see it as you as maf

[light_ganski]

I think there has been enough passive support for naerys wagon that i have also assumed and still assume naerys is a top viable wagon candidate

i don't know why you think "thinking someone is a top wagon but they aren't" is scum indicative anyway

I don't think its necessarily scum indicative

But I think his mindset in 502 conflicts with his townread of naerys

And I don't know if its sincere

[light_ganski]

I'll take it under consideration

[light_ganski]

VC 1.12

Votecount 1.12

T-Bone (5):

Save the Dragons, Ausuka, davesaz, usesPython, Dannflor

gob (4):

light_ganski, Doctor Drew, Black, Ranger

usesPython (3):

gob, Naerys, Cook

Ausuka (1):

T-Bone

currently +t-bone on davesaz and dannflor on python

I really don't get the t-bone push, but without dannflor I don't see the scum on it

But the python wagon looks even worse than it did earlier

Also very jittery about how my three least townie reads barring python up to this point are all voting python

[light_ganski]

{gob, naerys, cook, dannflor}

Considering I think davesaz has been okay on the last few pages thats my worst four reads

and thats the extent of the python wagon

[light_ganski]

{ranger, save the dragons, ausuka, usespython}
{t-bone, black}
{doctor drew, davesaz}
{dannflor}
{naerys, cook}
{gob}

[light_ganski]

VOTE: usesPython

idk im lost but out of the viable wagons i guess i'd prefer to go back to this most

Actually following on from ranger here

Dannflor can u explain your progression on t-bone from ranger's point in 668 to your python vote?

[light_ganski]

nvm might be paranoia I re-ISO'd dannflor and it makes sense

[light_ganski]

I need to go to bed but I'll try and check in to the thread on the way to work tmrw

Still think gob is the best push, still really don't like the python wagon

[light_ganski]

I could do Cook as a compromise.

I am suppressing the urge to follow Ranger here since I'm being defended and I know that is coloring how I see these posts.

I am also suppressing said urge, simply from gut re dannflor right now

But I can see anything I disagree with in rangers line of questioning dannflor

Cook would be a much better compromise than you or python

[light_ganski]

{ranger, save the dragons, ausuka, usespython}
{t-bone, black}
{doctor drew, davesaz}
{dannflor}
{naerys, cook}
{gob}

Can you explain your top tier reads some more?

Can you explain your second tier some more?

Can you explain your gob read some more and if gob's posting has changed anything with the read from the page (e.g. 657)?

Gonna be v quick so I'll try to be concise

Yourself your entry and attempted solve seemed v town motivated and gut is telling me that motivation shows thru ur more recent posts
Ausuka I mostly agree w the logic behind her 537 readslist even if i disagree with the read on tbone and the soft read on gob and got decent gut feelings from her iso
Python I scumread from early on but I thought their vibes got better as they went thru, I felt like they actually started to advance the gamestate + I didnt and dont like the wagon on them and I just cannot see them as scum with any of gob/dannflor/cook/naerys unless I'm missing something
STD basically good gut feelings after thinking they were a bit fluffy earlier on

T-bone I cannot get around the push on him? Maybe I'll have to look again but at the same time I don't want to lim this today
Black has seemed fluffy at times but I agreed w her earlier questioning of gob and her asking after my gob vote helped develop my thoughts from the initial case, I don't really agree w your case there even though I think it was well motivated?

On gob, I still back my case in (524) and I still really don't like the naerys interactions, I didn't hate his answers to my questions but I think also his davesaz and drew reads immediately after the wagon grew seemed v reactive rather than proactive, and I don't like the python push and don't see the town motivation behind it. 657 again from my perspective I cannot see the motivation behind the python + ausuka push
+who hopped on the wagon w me doesn't fit with my scumreads, the lowest 'd be davesaz and drew and neither has given me bad vibes lately
Gob wld still be my preferred eliminate

I'd format this better but I really must get to sleep

PEdit @ JacksonVirgo I Could prob break the top tier down to {ranger}{the rest} but I think all of them are townblock for now, see above

[light_ganski]

I'll try and catch up after I've eaten but I'm not gonna have much time

what the hell are these wagons

[light_ganski]

is it seriously black v python

[light_ganski]

VOTE: dannflor

I think both the top two wagons wld be a mislim

Its obv I'm not getting gob today and this is where I'd like my vote to sit. Mostly gut and PoE but I dont have the time rn to properly reread

[light_ganski]

/or comment for that matter

see you d2 if I'm alive

[light_ganski]

well played scum, gg

was a shame I had to replace out, hopefully next time I'll have the time for it

[light_ganski]

Thanks dragoneater and aliana for modding <3

[light_ganski]

Thank you for the positive things everyone

You did really well! I only started suspecting you even in the dead thread right at the end