In post 623, Psyche wrote: also still think a notascum scumflip would substantially implicate davesaz
Based on what?
In post 623, Psyche wrote: also still think a notascum scumflip would substantially implicate davesaz
ive done this so many timesIn post 624, Random Nurse wrote: Where exactly in NAS's five posts does he weigh heavier on the scales than Naerys or Hu?
I want you to explicitly state where and why.
for these reasons:In post 183, NotAScum wrote:https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Self-votingIn post 155, Hu Tao wrote: I'm so confident Naerys flips scum this game. Eliminate me and vote her out tomorrow. I agree with this.
VOTE: hu tao
She's contradicting herself. She does this as scum. She literally I'd saying the thing she did as town last game is now scummy when I do it.
VOTE: Hu Tao
that are elaborated on in other posts. and notascum has absolutely floundered in his attempts to engage w/ all thisIn post 512, Psyche wrote: the page provides an entire system for classifying self-votes and explains in detail how each type of self vote could come from scumorfrom town.
then the only sentence from which it can be gleaned that anyone thinks self-voting is a scumtell is:
"While this practice is commonly seen as scum-indicative, no data has been compiled on the actual effectiveness of self-voting as a towntell or a scumtell."
this is arguably the most disapproving way that a writer could conceivably share that information without openly abandoning wikipedia's editorial guidelines
but someone clinging to the mafia wiki for dear life took the exact opposite message home?
it does not pass the smell test
In post 626, Psyche wrote:ive done this so many timesIn post 624, Random Nurse wrote: Where exactly in NAS's five posts does he weigh heavier on the scales than Naerys or Hu?
I want you to explicitly state where and why.
it's this post:
for these reasons:In post 183, NotAScum wrote:https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Self-votingIn post 155, Hu Tao wrote: I'm so confident Naerys flips scum this game. Eliminate me and vote her out tomorrow. I agree with this.
VOTE: hu tao
She's contradicting herself. She does this as scum. She literally I'd saying the thing she did as town last game is now scummy when I do it.
VOTE: Hu Tao
that are elaborated on in other posts. and notascum has absolutely floundered in his attempts to engage w/ all thisIn post 512, Psyche wrote: the page provides an entire system for classifying self-votes and explains in detail how each type of self vote could come from scumorfrom town.
then the only sentence from which it can be gleaned that anyone thinks self-voting is a scumtell is:
"While this practice is commonly seen as scum-indicative, no data has been compiled on the actual effectiveness of self-voting as a towntell or a scumtell."
this is arguably the most disapproving way that a writer could conceivably share that information without openly abandoning wikipedia's editorial guidelines
but someone clinging to the mafia wiki for dear life took the exact opposite message home?
it does not pass the smell test
Do you have any concept of having a policy that 5 posts are not enough information to determine alignment no matter what the posts say?In post 623, Psyche wrote: also still think a notascum scumflip would substantially implicate davesaz
In post 627, davesaz wrote: Naerys ATEs (appeals to emotion for the newer players) when pushed as either alignment, but there may be a difference in how she does it.
Sometimes it isn't necessary to have detailed meta to tell the difference. I agree with RN, disengaging or avoiding the confrontation is more likely to mean she's scum even without the meta.
Hu Tao is similar in that respect, though in her case this game I'm looking at whether she's broadly considering the whole player list or narrowly focused on one of her antagonists.
I don't think either one would be easy to push through. Definitely not LHF, despite appearances from the self votes.
you're misunderstanding my pointIn post 628, Random Nurse wrote: How does that make him Scum?
He could just be Town without a peer-reviewed source you agree with.
I really appreciate this post, thank you.In post 627, davesaz wrote: Naerys ATEs (appeals to emotion for the newer players) when pushed as either alignment, but there may be a difference in how she does it.
Sometimes it isn't necessary to have detailed meta to tell the difference. I agree with RN, disengaging or avoiding the confrontation is more likely to mean she's scum even without the meta.
Hu Tao is similar in that respect, though in her case this game I'm looking at whether she's broadly considering the whole player list or narrowly focused on one of her antagonists.
I don't think either one would be easy to push through. Definitely not LHF, despite appearances from the self votes.
In post 629, Psyche wrote: what is your answer to the question i asked a while ago:
why do you think notascum voted hu tao in post #183?
because i don't think the explanation he actually gave in #183 passes muster. furthermore, he has repeatedly updated his explanation for this vote every time he's been asked to provide clarification.
In post 632, Psyche wrote:you're misunderstanding my pointIn post 628, Random Nurse wrote: How does that make him Scum?
He could just be Town without a peer-reviewed source you agree with.
it's not the pulling out the wiki and using it to justify a vote that's scummy
it's the fact that the wiki doesn't actually justify the vote!
the wiki all but condemns the idea of treating self-votes as scummy
the key implication of all this is thathe did not come around to his vote on hu tao for the reasons he originally gave us
i guess. it's a bad policy though, and a cop-out to the question at this point: why do you think notascum voted for hu tao?In post 630, davesaz wrote:Do you have any concept of having a policy that 5 posts are not enough information to determine alignment no matter what the posts say?In post 623, Psyche wrote: also still think a notascum scumflip would substantially implicate davesaz
Right but you're going to say this about anything Hu Tao says because you're paranoid of her scum playIn post 615, Random Nurse wrote:In post 611, Random Nurse wrote:In post 607, Psyche wrote:naeyrs is the low hanging fruit. or maybe hu tao. either of the self-voters are hanging pretty lowIn post 604, davesaz wrote: LHF is low hanging fruit, ie easy targets.
I don't consider either to be LHF, especially Hu. Naerys, when Town, does engage when sufficiently motivated.
Were you there when Scum Hu CC'd the Cop that had a guilty on her and got him launched? That's not the definition of LHF, period. Competent Scum could very easily dangle a self-vote filly knowing that ain't going nowhere.
In post 183, NotAScum wrote:https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Self-votingIn post 155, Hu Tao wrote: I'm so confident Naerys flips scum this game. Eliminate me and vote her out tomorrow. I agree with this.
VOTE: hu tao
She's contradicting herself. She does this as scum. She literally I'd saying the thing she did as town last game is now scummy when I do it.
VOTE: Hu Tao
Not sure how to react to an IC being worried about being pocketed.In post 631, Random Nurse wrote: -1 for triggering my paranoia in regards to pocketing me.
why
You think I'm wrong?
Unless you follow this to the next level of WIFOM, where as scum we'd think she would choose to do otherwise so she does it anyway.In post 640, Klick wrote: She could do some weird self-vote play here as scum, but if she were scum she would choose to do otherwise because she's competent
also i want to underscore how unbelievable it should be for someone treating the wiki like a scumhunting bible to then completely miss its central theme!In post 201, NotAScum wrote:It's explained in the wiki article. It's a common scumtell.In post 185, Political Clout wrote:No idea what this meansWhich is why self-voting alone isn't enough to gauge anyone's scuminess. But Hu Tao jumped on the RN wagon, that is another tell.In post 189, Naerys wrote:Seen plenty of dramatic townies to self vote, including myselfJust that it's a common scumtell that has to be combined with other scumtells before reaching any conclusion.In post 191, Hu Tao wrote:Can you tell me what you gathered from that link?
And then you continue on ad infinitum to the Nash equilibrium where it's still quite unlikely she chooses to self-vote like thisIn post 646, davesaz wrote:Unless you follow this to the next level of WIFOM, where as scum we'd think she would choose to do otherwise so she does it anyway.In post 640, Klick wrote: She could do some weird self-vote play here as scum, but if she were scum she would choose to do otherwise because she's competent