Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[DarthPunk]

I'm kinda over it though. This game is too draining

Scum fatigue?

[DarthPunk]

VOTE: gob

L-2

I think I prefer to keep him at that for a while instead of L-1.
I'm compensating for Dannflors unvote.

Okay then. Let's see if this helps

VOTE: gob

E-1

UNVOTE:

I prefer another day where we can discuss both of them at E-2.

Many asleep rn

This series of posts make HT look better and vivax look worse, this is when gob and I were both at around exe-2

[DarthPunk]

Having read HT's iso she looks a lot better than I thought, there are a couple of weird things from earlier that don't sit right with me but I'm not that confident that she is the second mafia over say, Nearys.

[DarthPunk]

HT and Nearys are basically the antithesis of each other.

One has an iso that overall looks bad (nearys) but slipped in a way that made me think they were town.

HT has a iso that overall looks reasonable but slipped in a way that made me think they were mafia.

Generally that would make me think that Neary's was more likely to be town, but it's not a strong enough reason to pick one over the other.

Nearys calls out gob early, but HT puts him at exe-1 BEFORE the fakeclaim was revealed.

both are kind of ok with luca yeet but not really driving it.

Gun to my head I would say yeet one of these two over vivax, and probably HT over Neary's but I could easily be wrong.

[DarthPunk]

If I had to give more of a reason, it would be that HT looks too -clean- and nearys plays like she doesn't care about how she looks if that makes sense.

going to dive Vivax next.

[DarthPunk]

I have issues with the fact that I can't see a world in which HT and Luca are mafia.

Luca also just OMGUS me and oats and has no other scum reads really is another nail in the coffin (in my mind I know that most of you don't agree) and particularly ironic as that is something he accused me of doing and a reason he 'leaned scum' on me (inherent hedging anyone)

I don't think there is a world where that is not the case so I am just going to operate assuming that is just true and try and find the 3rd mafia.

I'm just going to filter dive and see what I can find.

But basically I am ruling out Dann, Ooo and Oats.

Out of those three I don't really think Dann can be mafia at this point, he adjusts really quickly to new information and well basically his own self meta seems to apply, he looks like he is actively trying to solve the game.

Ooo has been obv town when he is in the thread.

Oats - Views the game in the same way as me, as small part of me worries that I have been pocketed, but I am keeping it simple and assuming that he just feels the same way about me, particularly as we have both been on the receiving end of scummyness from Luca all game.

The next tier are less certaing

Grack - Looks town to me whenever he posts. Same as OOO I can see thinking behind his questioning, I think his pushes have been reasonable (aside from the one on me obviously), I don't understand why people think he is scum aside from activity tells (ninja saying his posts have less substance was weird)

Vivax - Looks like town to me one minute and mafia the next - I find his progression of his DP read weird, because before the end of day he said he wouldn't be surprised if I died over the Un CC'd jailkeeper and then he completely flipped his read. He seems more confident to me than he has looked in his previous mafia game, so that makes me lean town even when his reads are shit. The grack/DP/Luca team is farcical and he should have moved off that by now IMO. Less town that grack and a slot to watch.

Ninja - Her posts are painful to read, and I completely disagree with her a lot of the time. She just looks openly lost to me, and I think mafia will try and pretend that they aren't (like luca)

Null tier

Gob - Unreadable troll and a good lim.

Naerys - I have to filter her because I have no idea what her positions are she has been that unforgettable = good lim (but let me check her iso)

Scum tier

Luca - I have posted about why enough, if you are all too stupid to understand why he is mafia and get taken in by him then whatever. If this was on TL I would just flame him and everyone else until one of us dies, but I am trying to be polite on this site and not shit up the thread.

HT - Has basically done two inexcusable things. 1) agreed with a post that called her scum, in a way that the post only made sense if she was scum and said basically nothing if she is not scum. If you can;t read that interaction and see why that makes her mafia I will just laught at you post game pretty much.
2.) why fake claim cop for (reactions) it achieved nothing, it could out a potential counter claim - why does town think this is a good idea? Back in the old days on TL we had a phrase "lim all liars." She lied. Must die.

Same applies to Luca.

Anyway these are my thoughts at this time, I am going to ISO and read bits of the thread, I welcome anyone at all to ask me some questions about these reads so we can try to solve the game together (just watch Luca drown it out with Oats/DP omgus.)

What happened to this?

well those are the slips that make me think she is mafia, if she is. I have changed my mind a bit on the cop claim I don't think that is as crazy as I thought at the time.

Point number 1 still stands.

[DarthPunk]

I have issues with the fact that I can't see a world in which HT and Luca are mafia.

Luca also just OMGUS me and oats and has no other scum reads really is another nail in the coffin (in my mind I know that most of you don't agree) and particularly ironic as that is something he accused me of doing and a reason he 'leaned scum' on me (inherent hedging anyone)

I don't think there is a world where that is not the case so I am just going to operate assuming that is just true and try and find the 3rd mafia.

I'm just going to filter dive and see what I can find.

But basically I am ruling out Dann, Ooo and Oats.

Out of those three I don't really think Dann can be mafia at this point, he adjusts really quickly to new information and well basically his own self meta seems to apply, he looks like he is actively trying to solve the game.

Ooo has been obv town when he is in the thread.

Oats - Views the game in the same way as me, as small part of me worries that I have been pocketed, but I am keeping it simple and assuming that he just feels the same way about me, particularly as we have both been on the receiving end of scummyness from Luca all game.

The next tier are less certaing

Grack - Looks town to me whenever he posts. Same as OOO I can see thinking behind his questioning, I think his pushes have been reasonable (aside from the one on me obviously), I don't understand why people think he is scum aside from activity tells (ninja saying his posts have less substance was weird)

Vivax - Looks like town to me one minute and mafia the next - I find his progression of his DP read weird, because before the end of day he said he wouldn't be surprised if I died over the Un CC'd jailkeeper and then he completely flipped his read. He seems more confident to me than he has looked in his previous mafia game, so that makes me lean town even when his reads are shit. The grack/DP/Luca team is farcical and he should have moved off that by now IMO. Less town that grack and a slot to watch.

Ninja - Her posts are painful to read, and I completely disagree with her a lot of the time. She just looks openly lost to me, and I think mafia will try and pretend that they aren't (like luca)

Null tier

Gob - Unreadable troll and a good lim.

Naerys - I have to filter her because I have no idea what her positions are she has been that unforgettable = good lim (but let me check her iso)

Scum tier

Luca - I have posted about why enough, if you are all too stupid to understand why he is mafia and get taken in by him then whatever. If this was on TL I would just flame him and everyone else until one of us dies, but I am trying to be polite on this site and not shit up the thread.

HT - Has basically done two inexcusable things. 1) agreed with a post that called her scum, in a way that the post only made sense if she was scum and said basically nothing if she is not scum. If you can;t read that interaction and see why that makes her mafia I will just laught at you post game pretty much.
2.) why fake claim cop for (reactions) it achieved nothing, it could out a potential counter claim - why does town think this is a good idea? Back in the old days on TL we had a phrase "lim all liars." She lied. Must die.

Same applies to Luca.

Anyway these are my thoughts at this time, I am going to ISO and read bits of the thread, I welcome anyone at all to ask me some questions about these reads so we can try to solve the game together (just watch Luca drown it out with Oats/DP omgus.)

What happened to this?

well those are the slips that make me think she is mafia, if she is. I have changed my mind a bit on the cop claim I don't think that is as crazy as I thought at the time.

Point number 1 still stands.

and this was before 3406 were she would have put her scum buddy at exe-1, which I think is an important fact.

[DarthPunk]

Do you live in NZ or something Luca? that is the timezone that makes sense to me.

[DarthPunk]

This was the vote that preceded Darth's bussing of Gob:

VOTE: DarthPunk

I wouldn't hate oats or gob either. But think I prefer this

Despite me and Hu Tao being Darth's two biggest scumreads.

I was pushing gob forever just read my iso.

[DarthPunk]

If you were town, you would have continued pushing your main scumreads (Hu Tao and myself) over someone you had just labelled as 'unreadable'.

This is why I kept pushing oats, who was my biggest scumread, over Gob, who is the type of player I can't read very well.

But you knew Gob was on borrowed time, and so you took the chance to bus and distance from your partner instead of trying to save an irredeemable slot.

I actually had him as scum before that. Then the push on you and HT was unproductive and had no traction ITT then i resumed push on Gob.

It is untrue to state anything that I was driving a push on gob from early in the game, you can call that a bus because you have to, but to say that I had him unreadable for longer or more significantly than I had him as mafia is plain wrong.

In fact, I think the fact that I waivered on the read is a sign of me NOT bussing more than anything else.

You also conveniently forget about the big blow up we had where I stated that I would be stepping back from interacting and engaging with you for a bit and doing other things, because we were just shitting up the thread, kind of like we are now.

How predictable, when I call you mafia we end up like this.

[DarthPunk]

I'm kinda over it though. This game is too draining

Scum fatigue?

Anything I post you just see in a scum nature. You realize that you need to convince me why I should vote Luca over you right now still?

This is not true actually. I explain my read of you in much more detail. Why the simplification here.

My job is to find an yeet mafia.

I don’t care if it puts people out.

If I cared about that I would never have called out Luca when I -know- he is going to respond like this

[DarthPunk]

Anyone around?

[DarthPunk]

I’m off to bed then

[DarthPunk]

Maybe I should just go with my reads going into today. Because if i was right I'd be so sad

Do you think that scumn vivax and luca would try to yeet darth instead of pocketing him and trying to yeet me or you?

I cannot be pocketed here.

Luca knows he looked bad, he probably knew I was going to try and yeet him.

His best play is to try to try to 1v1 me and hope I flip and he wins on the spot .

And to create sufficient distance and chaos to whoever his partner is (which has become more unclear)

If he tries to pocket me he will just get yeeted imo and he can’t call me scum when I call him scum.

I think he played this exactly like he had to play it as mafia.

But hey I know I’m town

[DarthPunk]

4100 is proof on its own, it’s entirely unreasonable to think all mafia were on gob in that vote count.

[DarthPunk]

I’ll be really annoyed if Luca gets away with this.

[DarthPunk]

It would be nice if Darth commented on this, once he comes here. I owe him answer to his question, i will be back in couple of hours for that.

What do you want me to comment on here?

[DarthPunk]

It would be nice if Darth commented on this, once he comes here. I owe him answer to his question, i will be back in couple of hours for that.

What do you want me to comment on here?

On Hu Tao showing post where you SR her,she said your reasons were bad

I stand by that what I said in that post and others about it. I don’t see how you can agree with a post that calls you scum.


I went through your iso and ht iso yesterday and posted my thoughts there

[DarthPunk]

I forgot that gob claimed tracker. I hate mornings.

VOTE: Luca Blight

He didn‘t.

Vivax here rather quickly got off gob, even tho with valid reason

He did that a lot, he actually hard defended gob a bunch early on.

My tr on him is based on meta more than his positions with gob.

[DarthPunk]

I'm kinda over it though. This game is too draining

Scum fatigue?

VOTE: gob

L-2

I think I prefer to keep him at that for a while instead of L-1.
I'm compensating for Dannflors unvote.

Okay then. Let's see if this helps

VOTE: gob

E-1

UNVOTE:

I prefer another day where we can discuss both of them at E-2.

Many asleep rn

This series of posts make HT look better and vivax look worse, this is when gob and I were both at around exe-2

Having read HT's iso she looks a lot better than I thought, there are a couple of weird things from earlier that don't sit right with me but I'm not that confident that she is the second mafia over say, Nearys.

HT and Nearys are basically the antithesis of each other.

One has an iso that overall looks bad (nearys) but slipped in a way that made me think they were town.

HT has a iso that overall looks reasonable but slipped in a way that made me think they were mafia.

Generally that would make me think that Neary's was more likely to be town, but it's not a strong enough reason to pick one over the other.

Nearys calls out gob early, but HT puts him at exe-1 BEFORE the fakeclaim was revealed.

both are kind of ok with luca yeet but not really driving it.

Gun to my head I would say yeet one of these two over vivax, and probably HT over Neary's but I could easily be wrong.

If I had to give more of a reason, it would be that HT looks too -clean- and nearys plays like she doesn't care about how she looks if that makes sense.

going to dive Vivax next.

[DarthPunk]

Just fyi Luca is going to come in and say: why would I do this or that if I am mafia.

That is wifom and should not be listened to.

[DarthPunk]

Vivax/Luca feel unlikely, they could just pocket Darth and be done with it
Vivax/Darth feels unlikely due Vivax pushing Darth at this stage

that leaves us with Hu/Luca and Hu/Darth

what do you think about my brainstorming here, Darth

It makes sense from a perspective of you being town.

I know I am not paired with vivax.

I don’t agree that vivax and Luca couldn’t be partnered tho.

[DarthPunk]

Vivax/Luca feel unlikely, they could just pocket Darth and be done with it

Vivax/Darth feels unlikely due Vivax pushing Darth at this stage

that leaves us with Hu/Luca and Hu/Darth

Vivax is

not

pushing Darth, vivax is hedging his bets, hoping for a Luca elimination today, while in the event that Darth is eliminated it gives him a chance on Day 6.

Vivax only started pushing Darth after I did, and then tried to tie me and Darth together as partners. There is clear scum motivation there in terms of a vivax/Darth scum team.

I'm convinced at this point that both you and hu tao are town.

Not true, he was pushing me all game.

[DarthPunk]

Vivax/Luca feel unlikely, they could just pocket Darth and be done with it

Vivax/Darth feels unlikely due Vivax pushing Darth at this stage

that leaves us with Hu/Luca and Hu/Darth

Vivax is

not

pushing Darth, vivax is hedging his bets, hoping for a Luca elimination today, while in the event that Darth is eliminated it gives him a chance on Day 6.

Vivax only started pushing Darth after I did, and then tried to tie me and Darth together as partners. There is clear scum motivation there in terms of a vivax/Darth scum team.

I'm convinced at this point that both you and hu tao are town.

Not true, he was pushing me all game.

Saying you're scum when you're in no danger of being eliminated is meaningless. I posted the VC's earlier - when you were really being wagoned vivax jumped off your wagon and onto mine.

Whenever push comes to shove, like now, vivax will not vote you. This is class mafia distancing.

Why would we not pocket you and yeet say nearys? see? anyone can make that argument. If we were partnered I can guarantee we would not pushing you like this based on the way you have reacted to being pushed all game.

It's all WIFOM but if you are going to use shitty arguments like that I can too.

[DarthPunk]

As soon as I began exploring other options besides you today I instantly became your strongest TR.

I‘ll admit that it‘s some insane tenacity I‘m seeing here but I made up my mind yesterday already and this is just regashing old stuff.

This.

[DarthPunk]

Luca looks like caught scum to me.

[DarthPunk]

with all this flailing about, its really obvious tbh.

[DarthPunk]

like the stuff he is saying doesn't even make a bit of sense in the context of the whole game.

[DarthPunk]

The fact that he is now calling, the two people not pushing him town, and the people pushing him mafia.

Its just an appeal to whoever can get him out of being yeeted.

[DarthPunk]

The fact that he is now calling, the two people not pushing him town, and the people pushing him mafia.

Its just an appeal to whoever can get him out of being yeeted.

I just want to point out once again that this is nonsense. Everyone in the game has called me scum at one point or another.

Darth, who do you think my partner is right now?

Go read my filter dives, my position has not changed, I think your partner is likely determined based on the outcome of this flip.

Or I get yeeted and the game ends.

[DarthPunk]

like the stuff he is saying doesn't even make a bit of sense in the context of the whole game.

It‘s just annoying atp lol. Feels like we‘re trying to yeet Holyflare.

‚Hey did you kill those townies ?‘
‚No sir it wasn‘t me I would never step over a red traffic sign after doing that‘

This is exactly what it is like LMAO.

[DarthPunk]

The fact that he is now calling, the two people not pushing him town, and the people pushing him mafia.

Its just an appeal to whoever can get him out of being yeeted.

I just want to point out once again that this is nonsense. Everyone in the game has called me scum at one point or another.

Darth, who do you think my partner is right now?

Go read my filter dives, my position has not changed, I think your partner is likely determined based on the outcome of this flip.

Or I get yeeted and the game ends.

So basically you're '

hedging

?' The thing you love to accuse others of doing.

If you really believe I'm scum then my flip shouldn't make a difference.

It's how people behave in relation to yeeting you, if it even happens.

I can't imagine mafia would prefer that then misyeeting me.

In the case we yeet you and I am NK I would encourage everyone to analyze the votes as the best way to figure out the rest.

My analysis of reading HT and Nearys' ISO was shared a couple of times.

[DarthPunk]

The fact that he is now calling, the two people not pushing him town, and the people pushing him mafia.

Its just an appeal to whoever can get him out of being yeeted.

I just want to point out once again that this is nonsense. Everyone in the game has called me scum at one point or another.

Darth, who do you think my partner is right now?

Go read my filter dives, my position has not changed, I think your partner is likely determined based on the outcome of this flip.

Or I get yeeted and the game ends.

So basically you're '

hedging

?' The thing you love to accuse others of doing.

If you really believe I'm scum then my flip shouldn't make a difference.

It's how people behave in relation to yeeting you, if it even happens.

I can't imagine mafia would prefer that then misyeeting me.

In the case we yeet you and I am NK I would encourage everyone to analyze the votes as the best way to figure out the rest.

My analysis of reading HT and Nearys' ISO was shared a couple of times.

If you were town who believed that you would be killed after my elimination you'd make more of an effort to identify my partner now.

The reason you don't is because you know that when I'm eliminated the game ends. That is your only goal.

lol i literally spent half of yesterday filter diving to try and figure it out. It's not that easy because I want to get it right, and you have clearly spent time throwing shit literally everywhere that I need to decipher.

[DarthPunk]

VOTE: Luca

I think it's vivax and Luca.

It's not.

[DarthPunk]

I think Luca and HT.

[DarthPunk]

Thats the hammer so dump reads ppl.

[DarthPunk]

I might be lying though

!!!!

[DarthPunk]

I'm town, so who actually was scum?

Why keep the act up lol?

[DarthPunk]

I'm guessing it has to be hu tao based on that hammer. I was really convinced of vivax/Darth before that.

Distancing here?

[DarthPunk]

I might be lying though

!!!!

In case we really have a NK ahead I don't want to make it easy to pick, we discussed it.

fair.

[DarthPunk]

Gg! Very well played by Hu Tao imo.

[DarthPunk]

the thread is now open for discussion of the game, the mafia team has (expired on 2024-02-27 19:34:19) to request any redactions to their posts

No redactions

Agreed.

[DarthPunk]

wp to scum

thanks for modding gypyx

the game was frustrating at times but i feel there's a lot to learn from it

Interested to hear more about this.

[DarthPunk]

Well played Hu Tao in melo.

Well played Darth in general, at least my conviction there wasn't misplaced and preventing vivax's elimination D4 didn't affect anything.

Darth did a great job of manipulating his tl buddies this game.

You were a worthy adversary.

[DarthPunk]

My plan from the start was to pocket all the tl ppl.

[DarthPunk]

It’s their major weakness

[DarthPunk]

I still think Luca looked really scummy.

He did

[DarthPunk]

I am kind of sad my alignment got spoiled in the dead thread

I think it would have been a trickier game to analyse without people being cleared etc. Maybe i would not be a consensus mafia read

[DarthPunk]

also i would like to announce you degenerates broke the record for the longest mini on site !

I thought I might hit 1000 posts.

Although having 850 ish posts as mafia is pretty good, im really tired though.

[DarthPunk]

Any tells that mafia are aware of that actually made them mafia would be helpful for the learning process.

The D1 HT thing DP also called out maybe ?

DP not killing scum for two days and generally avoiding too strong leadership ?
Anything else ?

HT thing 1000% in my opinion was a slip.

Not sure how to analyse my own tells or whatever, I think I play town and scum almost the same? Probably not trying harder to save oats and yeet gob who I scum read all game.

[DarthPunk]

I would 100% make that post as town, so I was confused why people thought it was a slip

ok maybe I am wrong about it then.

[DarthPunk]

Im still figuring that out, but as you have gone to some length to throw shit around this game, its hard to

entangle.

Was this a scum slip? lol

Probably not.

I am sorry if I caused you any harm this game ninja.

[DarthPunk]

I've come back to the site after a three year break and in both games lost in melo as town. Probably need another long break after this.

I lost my last game in melo and got yeeted pre-melo this game.

Solid improvement!

I win endgames

[DarthPunk]

[DarthPunk]

LOL

Even higher than Chezinu playing as confirmed town.

I assume there is a scum game in there otherwise he would be at 100%

[DarthPunk]

This in TL? How can I join a mafia game over there?

There is one open right now https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-cla ... ?page=3#58

[DarthPunk]

Oh yeah, also, why did you all give Darth such an easy time for making this thorough case against Grack which ended up to be complete nonsense?

I did not vote for Grack because I thought he was actually guilty; I did it 100% to call Darth's bluff. I just wasn't buying it but I also completely ran out of steam to fight Darth at that point, for personal reasons. So I figured the best thing I could do in that instance was to really put the microscope on that case he had written, which to me seemed very confirmation-bias-y. It was a win-win for me: I acknowledged that I wasn't seeing things clearly, but I figured, I'm either totally wrong on Grack and town gets a scum kill, or I call Darth's bluff and he'll have a REAL hard time the next day. But honestly it was like the misyeet never happened, like that whole post he wrote with a very narrow angle that was made with a great deal of confidence, that ended up being made against a townie, never actually happened. Frustrating.

If I was mafia you were always going to die at night.

[DarthPunk]

Thanks, I /inned.

Hype!

[DarthPunk]

My blunt opinion is that the scum win was a lot more poor play by town than good play by scum. Sorry not sorry.

Haha this is often the way townies feel after games.

You have to think though, about how much of that bad town play was influenced by mafia. I definitely tried to set to vs non tl players against each other.

And sure, you and Luca thought I was mafia at the end . But of course you did cause I was setting myself against you.

I knew that I would look bad, but the next part is yeeting me and I never looked bad enough to yeet even at exe -2 half my wagon was mafia.

I also posted as a very active wolf, Most posts by about 300 And I don’t think I made a slip really at all. Surely that has some merit? cause it’s not easy to play mafia that actively and aggressively getting so much heat but not dying.

I just Think scum often dont get their dues enough when town loses.

[DarthPunk]

Actually 18 players is a lot

Do games over there usually have as many posts as this game?

Yes.

But I think you will enjoy the experience, just cause of the difference

[DarthPunk]

Actually 18 players is a lot

Do games over there usually have as many posts as this game?

Yes.

But I think you will enjoy the experience, just cause of the difference

The game is filled with top tier players from the last 15 years. Very, very high level, but also some newer players about 3-4

[DarthPunk]

Even though he was dead set on yeeting a townie, to the extent that he said we could yeet him if it failed?

I have played with him for a while, he would have ended up being that tenacious as he was to yeet you but correct eventually.

Especially after you got cleared by dann.

Apparently he thought I was mafia after the oats yeet.