Micro Normal 1100 | Game Over

[GuyInFreezer]

And so it begins.

Hyped scum

VOTE: Random Nurse

Scumteam is Random Nurse/Doctor Drew

[GuyInFreezer]

I even have few claims to back it up.

“So I went to their place to get a flu shot, and ended up with my whole digestive system turned upside down.”
- IAmHandStandingRN

“I felt ill so I went to their place to get the doctor’s note but they all said I don’t need one because I’m healthy!!!! How dare they just decide what happens to my body??!!!”
- MeAndMyBFAtDisneyLandNow

“They turned me into a NEWT!”
- ????

[GuyInFreezer]

im the cop

protect me tonight

I’m the vig

I’m shooting you tonight

[GuyInFreezer]

Actions speak louder than words, they say.

[GuyInFreezer]

No sane people would, but I definitely would!
I’m not sane.

[GuyInFreezer]

Do I detect role-fishing?

VOTE: Gob

I declare that RVS is now over. Onwards!

So which part of Gob’s post was rolefishing?

[GuyInFreezer]

It wasn’t obvious, actually. I wouldn’t have asked otherwise.
And now it looks even less obvious to me on how you approached the conclusion that joke cop claim was a rolefishing attempt. No real cop with a half a brain won’t claim like that since it is very common for scum to have roleblock ability when there is a town cop.

[GuyInFreezer]

Do I detect role-fishing?

VOTE: Gob

I declare that RVS is now over. Onwards!

So which part of Gob’s post was rolefishing?

Why u trying to play the otherside now?

You made your line in the sand FreezerGuy.

Also i am a cop with a gun. I check role alignmente and kill people.

There is teasing someone for acting silly.
And then there is addressing something that’s concerning.

[GuyInFreezer]

I see, I see.

If there are two scum openly lolclaiming like that, in your opinion, what do you think they hope to gain?

P-Edit: FOS - Finger of Suspicion. Basically I-got-my-eyes-on-you

[GuyInFreezer]

I’d like more than just a blanket “they’re fishing for reaction” though. That’s a textbook answer and it’s boring.

[GuyInFreezer]

I don’t know I’d like to think elaboration would get more crowd, advancing the game.

But that’s just me.

[GuyInFreezer]

This game is adorable.
If y’all keep up, I might be able to unironically solve the game by page 20.

[GuyInFreezer]

Consider this a

FOS

in your direction!

This is only my second game and I still don’t have one completed so I may still ask some beginner questions is someone could indulge me. What exactly is FOS? Thanks in advance.

Any thoughts so far btw

[GuyInFreezer]

This game is adorable.
If y’all keep up, I might be able to unironically solve the game by page 20.

You'll be lucky to reach page 20 at this rate.

Could even be page 10 tbh, if everyone else shows up quick enough.

[GuyInFreezer]

What looks even worse for you right now, Solon, is the fact that you added vote #3. We need 5 votes to eliminate someone, yes? So you opted to turn this into a wagon, using what seems like kinda odd and wishy-washy rationale for it, which could push GuyInFreezer to have to reveal their role way sooner than we want to. I don't at all like the fact that a wagon has formed THIS early, before everyone has even checked in yet. Like what is the rush?

dw E-2 is not enough to crack me. They’ll need at least an E-1 with a threat to hammer from 4 different people at 2 days before deadline.

[GuyInFreezer]

Yeah I feel pretty okay with where my vote is right now.

btw you mentioned that you played with scum-Solon before right? Is that your only experience with Solon?

[GuyInFreezer]

I see.

[GuyInFreezer]

I have 2 locktowns and 1 hella strong townread. And it’s only page 3. I really might solve this by page 10.

[GuyInFreezer]

Hypocrisy is a towntell

[GuyInFreezer]

RolandOfGilead seems to be town but i think their defense of Freezer is misplaced

So is your headspace but I’m trying not to say it out loud because that would be rude.

[GuyInFreezer]

This is fun to watch but I’m not sure it’s giving me much information.

It doesn’t have to be grandiose you know.

It can be simple things like “I think GuyInFreezer is townie and Solon is tripping on something hard,” “I think Solon vs Roland is Town vs Town,” or even something like “I think Gob is town because I have the bar really low for him and he went over that bar.”

[GuyInFreezer]

This is fun to watch but I’m not sure it’s giving me much information.

What do you think of what Solon is doing here? Am I right to be suspicious?

You’re probably both town being silly. I’ll report back with more intelligent reads like this soon.

You know I didn’t actually expected to see this, and I am proud of you. I might have to up the bar on you now.

[GuyInFreezer]

Dang now I need to actually think whether that was a true mindmeld or scum TMI.

[GuyInFreezer]

Ok never mind that’s just town

[GuyInFreezer]

That was my genuine surprise actually.
“I have no opinion” to “I think these two are town infighting” is one hell of a jump.

[GuyInFreezer]

If anything, 76 is me being condescending and snarky

[GuyInFreezer]

That was my genuine surprise actually.
“I have no opinion” to “I think these two are town infighting” is one hell of a jump.

Why?

Saying a fight is TvT is literally the easiest and safest thing one can do in a game of mafia.

Because those are two entirely different agenda if scum. Former is going for “I’m new idk what I’m doing uwu” card, and the latter is going for appeasement card.

[GuyInFreezer]

Let’s assume that you’re scum and you have a plan that you think it is working well. Would you deviate from it? It’s like trying to fix things that’s not broken.

[GuyInFreezer]

And for what makes them different,

“I have no reads” vs “I have reads”

If I simplify like this, then it looks very different, right?

[GuyInFreezer]

To completely remove the context, anything can look different.

You're reaching.

I don't see any removal of context.
You asked me how those two agendas are different, and I've narrowed them down to you so it's easily visualized.
We don't call that reaching, we call that "GuyInFreezer did a damn good job at simplifying things for everyone to understand easily."

If anything is reaching, it's this.

So you think scum!kay would just be like that the entire game?

We were talking about why Kay would/would not change her agenda

now

. Newbcard clearly won't work the whole game and by then, the agenda is clearly not working so it would make more sense to switch things up.

[GuyInFreezer]

I have 2 locktowns and 1 hella strong townread. And it’s only page 3. I really might solve this by page 10.

Who were these reads at this point in time?

This is fun to watch but I’m not sure it’s giving me much information.

It doesn’t have to be grandiose you know.

It can be simple things like “I think GuyInFreezer is townie and Solon is tripping on something hard,” “I think Solon vs Roland is Town vs Town,” or even something like “I think Gob is town because I have the bar really low for him and he went over that bar.”

[GuyInFreezer]

It seems incredibly naive to think that a newb!scum wouldn't at least attempt to give some reads sooner rather than later. It's clearly something she was self-conscious of, and she would have consulted with her partner about it.

Please tell me how this acknowledgement, consultation, and the posts you speak of can come out in span of 5 minutes.

[GuyInFreezer]

Right now I would say that Kay is more likely town.

Ok then I can drop this line of conversation. I'd rather not argue with someone who I think is town.

[GuyInFreezer]

And for what makes them different,

“I have no reads” vs “I have reads”

If I simplify like this, then it looks very different, right?

I have no reads

Slow down everyone, it is a beautiful day outside and I don't want to effort right away

Drew you better hurry up if you're town because otherwise it's going to be like last time where I tunnel you until way too late into the game and boy, my not-so-town list is reducing at rapid pace!

[GuyInFreezer]

It seems incredibly naive to think that a newb!scum wouldn't at least attempt to give some reads sooner rather than later. It's clearly something she was self-conscious of, and she would have consulted with her partner about it.

Please tell me how this acknowledgement, consultation, and the posts you speak of can come out in span of 5 minutes.

I never said it did. They would have had plenty of time to consult.

I said 5 minutes because that's exactly the amount of time it had between Kay's posting "I have no reads" and posting "I think Solon vs Roland is TvT."
And if Kay was scum consulting about faking reads, then that "I have no reads" post wouldn't have happened. She would've just posted her reads instead.

[GuyInFreezer]

Drew you better hurry up if you're town because otherwise it's going to be like last time where I tunnel you until way too late into the game and boy, my not-so-town list is reducing at rapid pace!

And the last time why I even contemplated about you being town was because Alisae called you town. And there's no Alisae nor opticians to save you from my narrow vision this time.

[GuyInFreezer]

(Go have fun btw. I'm just being selfish and trying to see if I can get the game solved by page 10 lol)

[GuyInFreezer]

My secret trick is that you only need half+1 confident townreads and not count yourself in those confidence list.
Rest are within the mislim range.

So in a micro game like this, I really only need 5 locktown reads and convince people those reads. That way, even if I get voted out, they can still vote out the rest and still win.

[GuyInFreezer]

You're just salty cos I said I'd vig you.

[GuyInFreezer]

But that doesn't make you not salty, does it?

[GuyInFreezer]

Aight. What do you think about Kay?

[GuyInFreezer]

How about Solon and Roland?

[GuyInFreezer]

“I think Solon vs Roland is Town vs Town,”

or even something like

“I think Gob is town because I have the bar really low for him and he went over that bar.”

These were my reads in disguise

[GuyInFreezer]

The one I omitted is also my thought in disguise, but that one isn’t really a read.

[GuyInFreezer]

Just my playstyle preference tbh.
I could also say that it helps me keep track of who is actually reading my posts, but that’s actually pretty minor.

[GuyInFreezer]

Ok this one is kinda hard to explain, but from all the games I’ve played and seen, there are few patterns made in my head about certain types of play style, and how they usually operate alignment wise. Gob is one such case. It’s not perfect (notice that I haven’t called Gob locktown), but it’s enough at this stage of the game unless something happens.

[GuyInFreezer]

It’s also not that post. It’s from page 1 and 2, lol.
So yeah. Really hard to explain.

[GuyInFreezer]

That is something you use your judgement on. There is no really specific time when the RVS must end, but usually when somebody starts fighting that's a pretty good indication that the RVS is pretty much over.

[GuyInFreezer]

Ok this one is kinda hard to explain, but from all the games I’ve played and seen, there are few patterns made in my head about certain types of play style, and how they usually operate alignment wise. Gob is one such case. It’s not perfect (notice that I haven’t called Gob locktown), but it’s enough at this stage of the game unless something happens.

Are you saying this specifically for Gob? Or just in general?

In general. I never played with Gob before so I can’t really apply things specifically for him.

[GuyInFreezer]

The game barely started and you're already throwing out value judgements every which way.

We call this “playing the game.”

[GuyInFreezer]

Drew idk how hard you’re trying to get that townread, but that ain’t the right way.

[GuyInFreezer]

Hmm I kinda like your response honestly.
Although I do think you're wrong about Drew. To be honest.

@GuyinFreeze - if you had to elim someone right now who would it be?

If I have to pick a single name, Random Nurse

[GuyInFreezer]

If your follow up question is “why not Drew?”

Then it’s because I’ve never seen him play like this yet. Someone easy going tensing up and switching to more serious style is always a big red flag for me, but I do admit I’ve only played with him few times before so I’m not in the position to say that I know how he works. I can see town playing like this too, so yeah.

[GuyInFreezer]

Although I have to admit, Drew asking about the fancypants vote from Roland when there was literally a big post of concern about fancypants like 2 posts before that vote is pretty ????

[GuyInFreezer]

A little bit of both. I also found their vote on me opportunistic so a tint of personal spite as well.

[GuyInFreezer]

I really feel freezerguy is frozen scum (no oun intended) and we should lim him today.

i know its not the most exciting since ive been pushing freezer since page 1, but every time they post i become more confident they are scum.

So i implore everyone to vote CreezerGuy

Are you really that scared of being vigged tonight?
You could just politely ask me to not vig you, and maybe I won’t!
Letting go of pride and all that, right?

[GuyInFreezer]

Oh btw I’ve reduced the pull to Nurse/Drew/N_M at this point. I’m technically done with solves, but this feels way too easy and I never get easy games, so I’m now at a lookout mode to see if there are any new developments throughout the day.

[GuyInFreezer]

I don’t think you don’t think I’m the vigi

[GuyInFreezer]

Drew a little bird tells me that you asked Roland for experience and jumped on him once you learned that he’s kinda new. What would you tell the little bird about it?

[GuyInFreezer]

wait until these newbies understand who i am

Whoever you are D1 isn’t your strong suit :^)

[GuyInFreezer]

wait until these newbies understand who i am

Whoever you are D1 isn’t your strong suit :^)

We’ll see how accurate i was post game. Even if im wrong this game idc. I know who i am (the best)

Oh I thought you were altclaiming.
Disregard what I said then.

[GuyInFreezer]

FreezerGuy is BLEEDING scum

If we dont lim them today, i will threaten to throw this game. You all have been warned

Do not bring out-of-game influences into the game - this includes trust tells, threats, bribes, wagers, promises, alliances, etc. This also includes exploiting the site or game rules to gain an in-game advantage. See this thread for more information.

I’m sure you’re capable of actually stating out reasons you believe instead of resorting to breaking site rules.

[GuyInFreezer]

Threatening to throw (threat, promise) is against site rule. Same reason why avatar bet was banned.

[GuyInFreezer]

Plus there’s a very good reason you’re not being listened.
What have you actually tried to convince the rest of the town that I’m (or Roland’s) scum?
You have over 3k posts under your belt, you should know by now that Mafia is not a game where you can just call someone scum and expect people to listen. Read accuracy is the part, but ability to convince others is a major aspect of the game. And those usually come with effort and reason.

[GuyInFreezer]

So self voting is your best shot at effort and reasoning?

Gosh why did mafiascum remove a newbie queue

[GuyInFreezer]

If you guys dont listen to me though, ill do what i must to make myself heard. Even if that means throwing this game.

We could always just skip the part where you throw the game and just vote your ass day 1. Wouldn’t the end result be the same except you don’t have a chance to do more damage at night if you’re a town intent on making us lose? Screw your threats, either you’re scum causing chaos and we eliminate you, or you’re town that is (purposely, loudly) detrimental to us winning. Either way, you not being here sounds like a win/win to me.

VOTE: gob

Don’t get distracted by shiny things.
If he continues to break the rule then he gets replaced.
If he isn’t, then we just gonna win the game before elo.

[GuyInFreezer]

6:3 certainly lowers the odd but it isn’t unwinable.

[GuyInFreezer]

Gob at this point I hope you have enough mental fortitude to survive the sheer amount of schadenfreude that’s going to happen when this game is over.

[GuyInFreezer]

Why is Fartarus where it stands right now?

[GuyInFreezer]

I see I see. Did you mean Seacole btw?

[GuyInFreezer]

DownBad = Gob
S+(I/2) = KayJayQueue
Cold Cabbage = GIF
ThunderClap = Solon?
Mary

Seedcole

Seacole = Random Nurse
Quack = Doctor Drew
Feathers McGraw = FancyPants
Fartarus = Roland


Not_Mafia

[GuyInFreezer]

I might have gotten Solon and Roland swapped but I think rest are right

[GuyInFreezer]

This is not even close to being the worst game experienced tbh.

[GuyInFreezer]

Remember when I said I never get easy games?

[GuyInFreezer]

Wdym I’m a victim too!

At this point I’m waiting on nurse to show up before I go guns blazing

[GuyInFreezer]

With that said, I am surprisingly ok with N_M’s readlist.

[GuyInFreezer]

Also you can just leave Gob be unless you scumread him or something. It should be really obvious at this point that he’s just an obnoxious town though.

[GuyInFreezer]

I see I see. Did you mean Seacole btw?

No I meant Seedcole

You’re just an rollout OTP

[GuyInFreezer]

Also I’m going need to see a cop guilty and a flipped cop to see Roland being scum at this point.

[GuyInFreezer]

Wdym I’m a victim too!

At this point I’m waiting on nurse to show up before I go guns blazing

But what's the point? If two people are just trolling and not even trying, that could be the entire scum team right there and all of our solving efforts are pointless. If people aren't even participating, we are powerless to actually get to the bottom of anything.

Do you think Gob is scum from all this?

[GuyInFreezer]

Also, sucks that the newer players here had to put up with it....most games go smoother than that here lol.

What a disgraceful lie

[GuyInFreezer]

DownBad = Gob
S+(I/2) = KayJayQueue
Cold Cabbage = GIF
ThunderClap = Solon?
Mary

Seedcole

Seacole = Random Nurse
Quack = Doctor Drew
Feathers McGraw = FancyPants
Fartarus = Roland


Not_Mafia

How tf did you get most of these

I thought outside of the box and assumed that maybe, just maybe, he wasn’t pants-on-heads trolling. And then I saw the light.

[GuyInFreezer]

I’m sure y’all are excited but for me it’s just last few pages of “townslot does town things” so nothing really changed from my pov.

[GuyInFreezer]

Well there is a development.
I think I’m warming up to an idea of Drew maybe being town.

[GuyInFreezer]

Thank you for your paranoia.
One paranoia a day keeps a GIF alive for one more day.

[GuyInFreezer]

{ Roland, GIF, Solon }
{ Drew, Kay }
{ N_M, RN }
{ Fancy }

Kay up one
Fancy up one
RN down one

[GuyInFreezer]

Game needs to progress, I'm feeling worse and worse about the slot.

For next time, it’s more effective if you just do naked vote and afk for half a day.

[GuyInFreezer]

VOTE: Solon

[GuyInFreezer]

This is an unconventional vote/though so I expect to get backlash but I do think this flips wolf hilariously enough. I don't think the read on him would be so polarized if he were Town

Eh not necessarily. People tend to scumread others who don’t share a similar playstyle, and this game has players with polarizing playstyles.

[GuyInFreezer]

I had this constant nagging feeling that I was town-reading too many people

And this is ok, tbh. While some of us live in the abyss and only play the games to grab as much bragging rights (which is the "endgame" of mafia games) as possible, we don't

have

to solve everything all at once.
As someone who focuses on townhunting over scumhunting, this happens to me quite frequently. What I do then is to pick one name that I just don't see myself placing above bottom 2~3 of the list, flip that, and go from there.
Some of us do much better with few flips to analyze, after all.

[GuyInFreezer]

For me I don't see anything wrong with believing that Random Nurse / Not_scum / Doctor Drew contains our two scum.

If you have to pick two, which would they be?

[GuyInFreezer]

I mean nothing is stopping us from assuming that RN is lurking scum.

[GuyInFreezer]

Not it

[GuyInFreezer]

Ok so I had to dig around the site rule to make sure this was still legal to do so.

Exploiting or attempting to gain an in-game advantage by exploiting forum software.

Similar to exploiting game/site rules, forum software is not meant to be used as an in-game tactic. Using any aspect of the forum software to attempt to prove or confirm yourself or your statements can also hold more weight than regular gameplay arguments and harm game integrity. This includes tactics such as: setting your online status to show your most recent login and not logging in for the entirety of the night phase to "prove" that you did not submit any night actions; registering with a username with non-alphanumeric characters and using this to "prove" that you could not be mafia because you would not be able to be added to a mafia PT; etc.

You are allowed to make statements about when you or other players were or were not online, as long as you do not attempt to use the forum software to prove it.

Random Nurse IS lurking - dude was active earlier and not a single post here.

[GuyInFreezer]

Someone come give me a read to think about, I need a distraction lol

How about Gif?

What is your opinion on this GIF person?

[GuyInFreezer]

Do you pronounce GIF like GIF, like GIF or like

Spoiler: GIF

Not the peanut butter.

[GuyInFreezer]

but feels like here you are dancing in the shadows

Oh I always dance in the shadows, town or scum. I like being mysterious. Albeit, I toned it down a bit here cos I'm kinda treating this game as a newbie game.
But it's not really convincing of me to say it because I have almost 100 posts.

[GuyInFreezer]

The tinfoil comes in since it feels like you know when to post, and know when to hang back.

I don't recall having to think about my post timing.
It's probably muscle memory at this point. I've been doing this for far too long.

[GuyInFreezer]

Like I'm so town that I subconsciously do all the town things to pinpoint accuracy.

[GuyInFreezer]

Like I'm so town that I subconsciously do all the town things to pinpoint accuracy.

Lol, now you sound like Gob

I was here far before he has been, so it's the opposite.

[GuyInFreezer]

btw I've read the case.
I will avoid commenting on it until the man on the spotlight dukes it out first.

[GuyInFreezer]

Will post later tonight, since I'll be busy for most of today.

[GuyInFreezer]

Hello, lovlies.
I’m now caught up.

I don’t like quoting and all that jazz so I’ll drop simple answers.

Re: Drew - he wasn’t being town before, but he’s been towning up. Simple, right? But that’s not what y’all want to hear.

Bottom line is that dude was constantly being scumread vocally, and he was dealing with it quite well. Well as if, he’s been trying to solve the game, and he hasn’t been really cracking in a scummy way. Granted, I’ve seen him as scum being able to keep up with the easygoing tone, but there he focused more on mingling than solving. I’m just not seeing it here.

About the case though, I didn’t really have that many things to say about it tbh. The “votes please” thing is a classic mafiascum dot net call-for-pressure, missing an obviously long post detailing the answer he missed isn’t outside of his town-scope (I called it out to see what he says about it but I don’t think he replied to that). The experience thing is honestly null thing, so all we can really do is choose a side for it.

Re:N_M: That scum claim post has been his single entry post for years. Drew said it too, I’m saying it now, there can’t be 3 scums in a micro game, so you’ll just have to accept it One thing I like to do when people are just trolling is if they’re trying to play the game. I asked him for the reason for the lowest read (which he said “tryhard scum vibe”), and then figured out his readlist (I thought it was just gonna be a memelist tbh) and then I was ok with the placement of the reads. I wouldn’t keep him for ELo though.

Re: Solon vote: 10 points if you can guess why it happened!

[GuyInFreezer]

Oh yeah somebody was being jealous of my conviction.
To feed the fuel, I’m going to say that my townread on Gob started at page 1.

[GuyInFreezer]

Before I forget

UNVOTE:

[GuyInFreezer]

Oh, I don’t townread N_M. I was surprisingly ok with N_M’s readlist, but that’s about it. It’s not like he did anything after that other than wanting to lolhammer RN.

[GuyInFreezer]

Pool is something like [RN N_M Fancy]?

Fancy’s case is unique because this is purely “I have too many solid townreads and if I’m wrong on RN this is probably the one”

[GuyInFreezer]

(I don’t think I’m wrong on RN, but hey replacement is happening and we have like 6 days so)

[GuyInFreezer]

(I don’t think I’m wrong on RN, but hey replacement is happening and we have like 6 days so)

Why don't you think you are wrong on Random Nurse?

I have too many townreads or folks who'd townread more over Random Nurse. And this isn't just because of the activity ratio.

[GuyInFreezer]

That’s not really a helpful answer to your case in my eyes. My experience with newbies is that they tend to over read everything and mistrust easily.
In your favor is that you’re mostly reading the same as me, but arrogance (hubris?) tells me no newbie would townread as assuredly and in lockstep with me.
I don’t know. Let me sleep and reassess I suppose.

You make me want to unvote and vote NM though.

Frankly I think people in this game are putting far, far too much stock into reads based on an assumption of how good at this game you think the other person is. You don't know their experience, how skilled they might be at being able to figure out who is telling the truth and who is full of shit. I mean a lot of us spend our entire lives sorting out these things. These are just weirdly personal, borderline insulting sorts of takes, in my opinion.

If anything mine is mostly based on tones and how they're playing the game than experiences. While it is largely true that newbtowns are more likely to be all hyped and ready-to-go, all assumed experiences factor for me is how much textbook responses I'm willing to tolerate for that player.

[GuyInFreezer]

Also it's kinda pointless to look at the associatives from wagon progression right now. It needlessly locks you into bias, when the reality could be vastly different from the assumption (I don't really think this, but for all we know, RNsnow and N_M could be both town).

[GuyInFreezer]

I’d vote but that would mean the day ends

[GuyInFreezer]

(expired on 2024-03-08 10:21:01)

[GuyInFreezer]

Actually scratch the timer he made his first not too long ago

[GuyInFreezer]

However I for one don't feel like waiting forever and ever for Snow to contribute meaningfully to this game so I'll go ahead and apply that pressure. This feels like a good vote anyway.

VOTE: Snow

This is 1 vote shy of a hammer.

N_M is going to quicjhammer

[GuyInFreezer]

Cos it’s too early

[GuyInFreezer]

Who knows maybe scum would town the F up

[GuyInFreezer]

Snow, rather

[GuyInFreezer]

Eh it’s null for me. Could be town not caring, or scum bluffing.

[GuyInFreezer]

Do explain Kay scum for me.

[GuyInFreezer]

I found the Roland read bit little strange.

Roland – liked his stile the most. Agree with many of his points. But:

So let's go over few of these real quick.

- he criticized Solon for being a troll, but did not seem to do the same with GiF for her vig claim;

Did the context of both situations look same to you?

- he criticized Solon for pushing a train on GiF (which I treat as moving the game forward to too quickly, see 54), and at the same time attacked Gob ("that's also an incredibly effective scum strategy to just troll all game long and give yourself an excuse to not move the game forward", see 42). He also said at 59: "I mean, it's page 1, who cares? This is a common occurrence in the game for people to say things that don't push the game forward." I don’t think that 42, 54 and 59 and Roland’s treatment of this Gob/Solon/GiF affair are consistent.

Again, did the context of those situations look same to you for them to have to warrant consistent treatments?

- he said in 228 that he saw more and more town!Solon over their interaction. Which was not my reading of their exchange.

Did the bit about the reaction test factor into this when you typed this?

- he said Gob could not be credited for pushing the game and did not deserve a town read, but over time he called Gob as town (478).

The post Roland said Gob didn't deserve a townread was 196, and the bits he mentioned that gob didn't move the game forward was before that.
That's quite a post gap between these and 478, ain't it?

So, let me ask you the real question here.
You just clicked ISO for Roland and just skimmed through that without context, didn't you?

[GuyInFreezer]

Please unvote for now.

I have more questions coming and I'd like to see them answered first.

[GuyInFreezer]

What are we at?

E-1, but N_M is gonna lolhammer when he shows up.

[GuyInFreezer]

There has been interaction between Gob, GiF, Roland and Solon at the start of the game.
Gob claimed a cop. Voted GiF and called her scum.
GiF claimed vig, threatened to shoot Gob.
Solon jumped on GiF.
Roland defended GiF.

I think the main point is who are these four and whether (and how many) scums are there. I would say at least 1. Two possible, but could be overly lucky. Just 0, also not excluded.

Furthermore, this is just an IIoA (Information Instead of Analysis), garnished with surface-level number guessing.

Solon – on balance liked him the most.

Fancy – agree with some of her points, disagree with the others.

These were your stated townreads. So what part of this makes Fancy town for you?

GiF – don’t like her claiming 3 town reads there, if I take it right; looked like an attempt to end the conflict.

Is this really all you have on me? That townreads posts was from much earlier on. Also,

Kay – avoids conflicts, takes fights very carefully. Seems like a similar pattern with Roland and GiF.

What makes me controversial and Kay scummy, if we shared a similar pattern?

DD – Fancy voted him, got criticized by Roland for that, but DD launched a conflict with Roland instead of pushing Fancy with him. Seems like a principled move. Hardly a move by a scum. Roland is right that DD's case was not explained in detail (and DD did not seem to try to do so), and I found DD’s style overly aggressive. But his actions could have been honest moves from a town!DD.

I must be misunderstanding your definition of "controversial" because this reads like a townread. What makes your DD read "controversial" and not town?

- GiF, Jackson and DD – don’t think they should be limmed now.
- Not Mafia – can be a candidate, but looks more like a policy lim. Not sure this will give town a lot.
- Roland – the best candidate from the standpoint of info for the town. One of the 4 players in the initial conflict. A lot of conflicts are associated with him. But he is the most active and dedicated player. Limming him on D1 is a tough decision.
- Kay – can be a candidate. But again not sure this will give town a lot.

Also, this whole part is ???
Your own readlist stated Kay as "scummy" and Roland as "suspicious," which indicates that Kay seemed more scum to you than Roland, but you call for Roland lim, and based on the information that would provide? Are you, like, not trying to lim scum?

[GuyInFreezer]

idk why you’re flipping out like that when I have no intention to let that through.

[GuyInFreezer]

AtE - Appeal to Emotion

[GuyInFreezer]

jsyk I have no qualms on yeeting N_M. But we still have time. Let snow do more, so that they either show self as town or bleed for the bloodhounds to track their bud.

[GuyInFreezer]

Also I’ll answer snow later today. I’m on phone.

[GuyInFreezer]

Bonk them

[GuyInFreezer]

There is no 3-scum scenario in a 9-players game. It’s 7:2.

[GuyInFreezer]

By advocating a self elimination, you are:

1. Muddying your own wagon’s analysis value by giving scum an excuse to jump on your wagon

2. Muddying the day time by giving scum an easy thing to post while looking active (Bruh don’t self vote don’t give up <3 )

3. Committing the one of the cardinal sins in Mafiascum dot net, which is assuming that others will not be dumb and win the game for you.

4. Burning our one of only two chance to be wrong on someone that you know it’s wrong. (Let’s say we lim N_M and he flips town. Now what?)

5. Reducing your credibility after your flip (not quite the Gob level, but would you have listened to his reads seriously if he self voted and got himself eliminated?)

6. You have effectively claimed your role to scumteam

[GuyInFreezer]

I’m still on my phone and unfortunately probably will for today, but I’ve been considering all day if I want to townread snow for that 3-scum thing

[GuyInFreezer]

Rolandslot, Jackson, Kay, and Solon townread is never ever changing for me so

[GuyInFreezer]

GIF didn't town-read themselves, confirmed scum!!

I need not state the obvious.
Also he.

[GuyInFreezer]

So why are there still votes on Malachai

[GuyInFreezer]

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That your last will?

[GuyInFreezer]

I'll provide explanations if I think it's appropriate

Why did DownBad drop that low

[GuyInFreezer]

How about Quack? Is it related to one of the new names going up?

[GuyInFreezer]

I kinda wanna cfd drew now for funsies.

[GuyInFreezer]

I thought it was gonna be funny but things have soured.
So I'm going to go for plan B.

[GuyInFreezer]

[GuyInFreezer]

[GuyInFreezer]

[GuyInFreezer]

(More than this is probably detrimental so I'll stop here!)

[GuyInFreezer]

The ultimate pacifism

[GuyInFreezer]

I won't be around much today.
How long do I have?

[GuyInFreezer]

2.5 days. I'll make my decision by tomorrow. I'm between "N_M suddenly doing more stuff gives me cold feet but yolo anyway," "CFD Fancy but unironically because if he's scum he's probably the hardest one to lim out of my list," and "I'm warming up to Snow being town a lot atm but should I stick to my original read on RN?"

[GuyInFreezer]

There's also Drew but atm I'm just not feeling it.

[GuyInFreezer]

I’ll have desktop access in like 6 hours so let me put my last thoughts in before we end the day and I get nightkilled for being too town.

[GuyInFreezer]

Good good
Spew more of those for me so maybe I don’t die tonight

[GuyInFreezer]

Good good
Spew more of those for me so maybe I don’t die tonight

Why would you say this?

Why would I not say this?

[GuyInFreezer]

Btw I thought I was going to be fine with eliminating N_M, but I keep getting cold feet over the fact that nobody actively tried to interact with N_M when he actually gave responses when asked. I understand the tension around the time when Gob was being forced replaced and why people would just push for N_M policy, but that tension should’ve died down by now and it keeps giving me cold feet that N_M is a mislim.

[GuyInFreezer]

Never lim list:
Kay
Malachai
Solon
Jackson

Leftover:
N_M
Snow
Fancy
Drew

ATM my order of not-want-to-lim are as follows:
N_M > Snow > Fancy > Drew

I explained about N_M, and Snow I think is one of those players with exotic my-way trajectories, and by that I mean kind of a player whose posts make little sense that I don’t see them coming from scum. I already mentioned the 3-scum thing. 3-scum doesn’t make sense from the balance point of view, and if he’s scum, then he should know that 3-scum ain’t it. Also the whole Solon thing and not following the readlist when it comes to voting, I think… it’s too blatant? Yeah, blatant. I think it sums up the whole Snow’s play. It is definitely part playstyle thing, but yeah.

Fancy isn’t really hitting the town notes for me. Like I don’t see anything particularly scummy, but nothing particularly towny either. Almost feels like he’s playing carefully?

I keep going back and forth with Drew. At first I thought he was being impactful, but then it has fallen off. And then there was this part recently when I called for Drew flashwagon, he didn’t react to it until after I called it off, except for asking what cfd is. I think he would’ve at least given me a snark reply after learning what cfd is, and I don’t think he is the type to skip on any opportunities like that.

[GuyInFreezer]

Btw I thought I was going to be fine with eliminating N_M, but I keep getting cold feet over the fact that nobody actively tried to interact with N_M when he actually gave responses when asked.

That's not true. When he gave his reads, I asked him to explain them, and he pretty much just told me "no".

Will double check

[GuyInFreezer]

Granted, I only asked him few questions, but he did answer all the questions I answered. Plus, I don’t personally think the N_M’s uwu newbie thing that offensive, but I can’t speak for others.

Re: Drew cfd, you missed my point. I made it obvious that it was a joke (I said for funsies after all), and my point was that Drew’s reaction to it was unnatural.

[GuyInFreezer]

Probably. I plan to reread after work but it’s probably not going to change much

[GuyInFreezer]

By the way, after all I’ve said about N_M, if he flips scum, I’m going to need a shot or two.

[GuyInFreezer]

Oh what a great pagetop post

[GuyInFreezer]

Maybe this game is exploiting my one weakness: tendency to townread crazies.

(Not in a negative way though, but in a fun way)

[GuyInFreezer]

Oh right you did say that huh. That kinda invalidates my whole thing.

I should wait until I reread because I seem to be losing details left and right.

[GuyInFreezer]

ISO diving Snow atm.

So these were what I meant by "blatant."

I cannot be portrayed as Roland's teammate. I actually called him sus which put me immediately under fire. So, Drew's claim that he is the only one suspecting Roland is unfair.
But I don't think that going after Roland in a 2-scum scenario should be considered now.

There's one more post like this that I somehow can't seem to find again.
It's a weird way of self-defense, but looking at the rest of his posts in detail, it's actually not as weird as I thought it was given how he has been approaching this game so far.

With that said, I have no hecking clue why I haven't locktowned him yet. My crazy weekend must've caused me to miss the signs. Not afraid to talk about stuff that makes him sound bad (I do acknowledge that he could just not know if saying stuff he says would make him look bad, but I don't think this is the case), and effort looks genuine. vs Malachai just looks like a communication issue to me.

[GuyInFreezer]

With this, my goal of "5 locktowns" has been achieved (Jackson, Malachai, Kay, Snow, Solon), so I no longer have to feel insecure about this game anymore and go back to being lazy bum.

And yes, I can hear Malachai screaming all the way from across the monitor.

[GuyInFreezer]

My browser crashed when I tried to ISO Not_Mafia.

[GuyInFreezer]

Since snow refuses to answer, maybe you can answer it instead, Guy: why would someone look at an analysis from someone they townread and try to shade the entire thing?

Beats me. But why would scum do stuff like that blatantly while doubling down on his Fancy townread?

[GuyInFreezer]

By the way these are grand total of 5 posts by Not_Mafia where he gave something useful.

Why is Fartarus (Roland) where it stands right now?

Tryhard scum vibes

I'll provide explanations if I think it's appropriate

Why did DownBad drop that low

Have been very underwhelmed by LaToya, looking back I think I was just reading gob's naturally obstinate nature as town

How about Quack? Is it related to one of the new names going up?

Kind of, I'm also struggling to remember what he's done despite seeing his avatar a lot

I mean.....I was ready to tunnel you relentlessly....but how can I now??

VOTE: Quack (Doctor Drew)

KayJay all of a sudden falling back on "uWu little old newbie me doesn't know what's going on" posting when we're actually trying to build a consensus and need to elim someone has them plummeting down my readslist

Maybe I made this difficult for myself by unintentionally helping scum-him look like he's doing something useful. I got a little excited when I found that his readlist names weren't just jumbles of nothing, tbh. While I don't really agree with his points, I do think the points he made are reasonable, despite his unreasonable playstyle.

[GuyInFreezer]

I honestly think it's some sort of language barrier affecting that. Because tone-wise it looks to me like none of y'all are trying to fake stuff. And Snow did say that English isn't his second language. And looking at the way he dealt with Solon, he looks like he's the type to get distracted by shiny things (or love diverting towards shiny things, if scum). As I said, I can't really explain exactly what's going on with his head, but I don't think, at the very least, he's lying about what he believes he said.

[GuyInFreezer]

isn't his first language, rather.

[GuyInFreezer]

Yeah those things should be discussed in post-game.

[GuyInFreezer]

But let me do say this, though.
Mafiascum defines "game-throwing" as something direct, such as claiming scum with buddies' name, quoting role PM, etc. The rest is considered bad play, and mods shouldn't really punish bad plays because

I'd be the first one on the chopping block

we don't know exactly what's going on in each players' head. For an example, Not_Mafia just could be a PR trying to set himself as a low-priority target. It's a hilariously bad play, but it's not really throwing, you see. So instead of trying to case-by-case each players (who wants to read Mafia games they're not in, especially when they're working as volunteers?), Mafiascum promotes blacklist system that a lot of game-mods adopted, such as WotM (Wisdom of the Many, or Wisdom of the Mod), or blacklist.

[GuyInFreezer]

Aaaaaaand my power went out.
Back to phone posting

[GuyInFreezer]

Policy vote isnt technically a throw (it is indeed detrimental if multiple people are doing it though), but Snow, all of your problem is solved by voting Not_Mafia. Don’t you scumread him?

[GuyInFreezer]

What, exactly, is meant by "policy vote"? I see this term used a lot this game.

A vote purely decided by their opinion that the removal of a certain player is helpful towards the town win condition, despite the probability of mis-elimination.

[GuyInFreezer]

It used to be lot more frequent back then (and by back then I mean like pre-2010) but nowadays people know better and pretend that they just scumread them without saying the quiet part out loud.

[GuyInFreezer]

No, he shouldn’t.

This game has been hella weird, and out of my 10+ years of playing on this site, I’ve never seen a game like this ever lol

[GuyInFreezer]

There are always that one person tripping
But not in this mass scale

[GuyInFreezer]

I kinda don’t want N_M to be scum here because if he was doing all the effort just because he was scum trying to survive I would be the saddest guy in freezer

[GuyInFreezer]

Hmm
N_M is voting Drew because he scumreads Drew.
Drew is voting N_M because policy.

[GuyInFreezer]

VOTE: Drew

I have decided. If I'm wrong this time, then next time I play with him I just need to flip whatever read I have on him and it will be accurate.

[GuyInFreezer]

Drew why is your best option vote a vote a policy

[GuyInFreezer]

Actually nvm

I actually think NM actually is scum here, there is definitely a sense of panic from them.

And this is definitely the most I have seen them actually play the game(the irony given the controversy surrounding him lol)

idk why
But I'm keep missing your posts

[GuyInFreezer]

Maybe this is a sign.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[GuyInFreezer]

That should've been said "for a vote" not "vote a vote."
I can't even read my own posts for proofreading anymore, I must be really exhausted.

[GuyInFreezer]

That should've said, rather.

[GuyInFreezer]

Not gonna ask for claim before hammering?

[GuyInFreezer]

Not_Mafia just could be a PR trying to set himself as a low-priority target

Why am I always right when I don't want to be right

[GuyInFreezer]

But yeah that hammer sucked hard

[GuyInFreezer]

Not_Mafia just could be a PR trying to set himself as a low-priority target

Why am I always right when I don't want to be right

You weren't right. You voted to kill him.

I meant more that the thing that I was hoping not to be right turned out to be right

[GuyInFreezer]

Eventually, I’ll trust my gut more.
Eventually.

[GuyInFreezer]

Which of you and I do you think dies tonight, GIF?

Good question.
Probably me.

[GuyInFreezer]

Each day we stray further from mith’s path

[GuyInFreezer]

This game is yet another reminder that my early game gut is way too good to be ignored.