Open 905: Pick Your Power X/Y S/S [game over!]

[Oblivion]

Greetings,

It is excited to play in this setup, since it seems to have a lot of outguess and mechanical aspects that look interesting. That said, it has looked through past iterations of this setup and of another series of setups that appear to share a name with it, and it has found that there has been a lot of past discussions about whether Wolves will group up onto a number together, or select three different numbers.

Given our drafting results, it believes there is a high likelyhood that scum did not group together, though it doesn't want to rule anything fully out of hand. It also thinks that among players who bid Non Single Digit Numbers (perhaps excluding 10) there is likely to be a scum. It seems like a good scum strategy to bid a number that is not single digits to prey upon the mentality of players who think "Submit a number, lowest wins" and aim to outguess others in the 1-9 range.

[Oblivion]

I think reading too much into the draft would be a mistake. You have to go pretty deep into my history, given it's been ages since I played this (modded it a lot), but it will be clear I've always had this position.

It is of the opinion that this is a very defensive post that doesn't seem to have a prediction for how on guard it is. Yes, can you explain to it why you felt the need to bring up and defend yourself from an attack that hasn't even been levied?

Further, it thinks that the major element of this game is draft speculation and reading into player mentality for the choices that are made. Why shut that down?

[Oblivion]

Fun fact: I initially submitted omega as my number, but the haters (the mods) couldn't see a bad bitch (me) winning (being slightly too absurd)

It had considered, during its examination of prior games, calculating how often each single digit number is chosen and choosing that one.

Instead it opted that it should go for 1, since there was a chance others would be too shy to try and take it.

[Oblivion]

the draft has answers if we are willing to hear its whispers

It knows that this was likely said in jest but it is now interested in what your opinion on the draft outcome is, if you do infact have one?

[Oblivion]

Jake submitted the best draft number.

It has interesting thoughts about that number. It felt it was strange to submit a number that would be guaranteed to be unique but had no chance of being lowest, as if the intended effect was to land squarely in the middle. It wonders why anyone would want that?

[Oblivion]

ohh i just realized this probably means u got the vig shot penguin. can't wait to see who u nuke. Got to bring back officer penguin with the nuke ride once u do it

Sorry to disappoint. I chose VT.

i am very upset with u if that is really what u did

It is assuming this is in jest, since it doesn't think that VT is a valid draft submission, even if you do end up receiving VT if you are outdrafted? Or are you truly able to say "I do not wish to claim a role"? That would be an interesting thing to do.

[Oblivion]

Jake submitted the best draft number.

It has interesting thoughts about that number. It felt it was strange to submit a number that would be guaranteed to be unique but had no chance of being lowest, as if the intended effect was to land squarely in the middle. It wonders why anyone would want that?

do u actually think ur going to get someones alignment from what numbers they picked. Or from all the history of this setup u looked at has anyone found scum from the draft numbers.

I personally don't care that much its a quasi funny intro to talk about the game but other than that its background noise to me.

It thinks it is a waste to leave information on the table when that information can assist us. That said, it doesn't think that the information itself is a useful tool for deciding our direction.

It is of the opinion that using that information as a Blade to delve into how others respond and play around it, like a sword dance, is valuable.

You don't watch the sword, you watch the footwork the sword forces to see the true intent of your opposition.

(It knows that is probably a corny metaphor but it quite likes it.)

[Oblivion]

I am voting for the wrong person it seems.

VOTE: NotAScum

It is interested in the why behind this statement, if you could indulge it?

[Oblivion]

I am voting for the wrong person it seems.

VOTE: NotAScum

It is interested in the why behind this statement, if you could indulge it?

I wanted to move my vote off of you because I liked your opening.

It, uh, understood that much from context. Perhaps it should have been more clear, can you explain what it was about its opening that you liked?

For the sake of full transparency, it is attempting to build a mental model of you as a player to be able to determine if and when you become different and interrogate those moments. It plans to try and do this for all those in this game it can, but it has a particular interest in why people decide to see it as town, because it has a fear of the feelings of InGroup and Belonging that can come with that declaration.

As a fact, just hearing that you viewed me positively, it could feel its own desire to work with you sliding up, so it is using this as an attempt to counterbalance against that, if that is okay?

[Oblivion]

if i was pretending to solve the game, I would go with June as one scum.
But I am not pretending to solve right now.

I am too busy chilling in the PT with penguinpower, talking about anime

ur smokin crack June is town

This level of confidence is interesting to me. For what reasons do you find June so overwhelmingly town that you would respond to another's suspicion in this way? Why not allow the suspicion to play out for more information, then assert your read and reasoning?

[Oblivion]

I can see a headache coming in this game from trying to read words that don't fit my language map.

It has two concerns with this post, both stemming from an assumption this is directed at it and it's post talking about you.

Firstly, it wants to allow for others to understand it and how it speaks. If it is not being understood, that is concerning for it. It can try its best to help you, but it speaks as it is because it is who it is.

Secondly, it wonders, perhaps from a place of deeper paranoia, if this isn't intended to discredit what we've said or choose not to engage with our concerns with you. It feels like you could likely erase those concerns by answering our questions we directed towards you, but for the moment we are a little... put off by this.

[Oblivion]

Can you show an example of two mafia picking the same draft number in a previous version of this setup?

The point is that they could, not that they will. Whether they have or not is immaterial, gambler's fallacy.

This is a game of "could"s, though. Determining what is more likely and staking your moves on that, then adapting with new information is the entire methodology of the game.

Simply stating that because somehting "could" happen that we shouldn't act upon the idea that it is unlikely and attempt to solve with a mentality in mind feels reductive and dismissive, to it.

It thinks there is a good line of reasoning and ability to choose where to look first in the logic it has presented. It even stated that it wasn't willing to say it was a certainty, and yet here we are discussing in a circle about "if something IS possible then we should consider both worlds" instead of hedging and using logic to try and eliminate worlds until proven otherwise.

[Oblivion]

Can you show an example of two mafia picking the same draft number in a previous version of this setup?

The point is that they could, not that they will. Whether they have or not is immaterial, gambler's fallacy.

This is a game of "could"s, though. Determining what is more likely and staking your moves on that, then

adapting with new information

is the entire methodology of the game.

Simply stating that because somehting "could" happen that we shouldn't act upon the idea that it is unlikely and attempt to solve with a mentality in mind feels reductive and dismissive, to it.

It thinks there is a good line of reasoning and ability to choose where to look first in the logic it has presented. It even stated that it wasn't willing to say it was a certainty, and yet here we are discussing in a circle about "if something IS possible then we should consider both worlds" instead of hedging and using logic to try and

eliminate worlds until proven otherwise.

Eliminating people from consideration as possible scum without evidence from their posting and votes (and before mechanical results but that comes later) is one of the worst things town can do.
Not sure why it's focusing on 17 when it didn't even say anything until 40, care to explain that aspect of the points it's making?

Okay, now can it ask people if this is a remotely fair interpretation of its points? It doesn't feel that it is. It isn't saying to remove people from consideration forever, it literally said that you adapt as more information becomes known.

For your benefit, it has bolded in its own post the two different times it has said this that you seemed to ignore. Creating a world view, interrogating that world view, and then making a choice on how you want to act upon that world view, and then seeing whether you were right or wrong is quite literally the basis of scumhunting, let alone scientific methodology.

It is focusing on all of your posts, but most especially the ones in which you come off as a curmudgeon attempting to shut down lines of reasoning before they evolve. It believes you are possibly trying to dictate and control what ideas are accepted within the town and silence others that may not work for you. By further interrogating you, it can decide whether your actions are a part of the mental model it thinks is acceptable for your townplay or whether these actions are guided by a further motivation that doesn't register as town.

[Oblivion]

I think reading too much into the draft would be a mistake. You have to go pretty deep into my history, given it's been ages since I played this (modded it a lot), but it will be clear I've always had this position.

It is of the opinion that this is a very defensive post that doesn't seem to have a prediction for how on guard it is. Yes, can you explain to it why you felt the need to bring up and defend yourself from an attack that hasn't even been levied?

Further, it thinks that the major element of this game is draft speculation and reading into player mentality for the choices that are made. Why shut that down?

Bc empirically towns lose games where they eschew organic gameplay for mechanical decision tree math whether or not on paper they should

Empirically requires evidence you don't have. Furthermore, no one is attempting to eschew "organic" (it has words for the manner in which you have phrased this for your own benefit/bias) gameplay and replace it solely with a decision tree.

If you read any of its posts, it has said multiple times that it is seeking to use the information gleaned in the draft as a weapon to force others to respond and see how their play evolves as a result, while retaining a framework that, yes infact, scum are somewhat readable through the Psychology of Drafting.

Now, as for its concern with your bias. It would thank you not to decide what is and is not "organic" gameplay. Our approach to other players has been wholy in attempt to generate organic reactions and create mental models for our ability to solve them for later. Simply because it does not play how you play does not mean its methods are less effective than yours.

[Oblivion]

Oblivion can i call you O-Ring

It's a term of endearment and doesn't mean onion ring

It assumes this is a reference to the Magic: The Gathering Card "Oblivion Ring"?

It is fine with that, it sees no reason or harm in that nickname.

[Oblivion]

Can you show an example of two mafia picking the same draft number in a previous version of this setup?

The point is that they could, not that they will. Whether they have or not is immaterial, gambler's fallacy.

Town indicative cause an example appeases better

It doesn't agree with this, for what it is worth. It thinks that this is a pretty basic way to level yourself against a request. Combing through records of games and providing examples of when this gambit has taken place is a value neutral action that won't indicate Dave's alignment in any real way. Actively refusing to do it while sticking to one's guns, however, is a move a player can play to attempt to look dogmatic, and its experience, limited as it is, is that dogmatic players who appear to "truly believe in their own craft" are read as innocent more frequently than not.

In other words, there's no real motivation for town or scum dave to do anything but what he did there, it thinks. It's a neutral outcome.

[Oblivion]

I've never like made a spreadsheet I just played mafia for 16 years and have anecdata

Organic isn't the right word but I couldn't figure out the right word. "The other stuff" is what I meant

Yes O-Ring is a 3 mana enchantment

Your experiences do not qualify as evidence that a methodology is bad, only that it doesn't suit your style. Just as its experiences do not qualify as evidence that Dave's curmudgeoning is explicitly scum, despite it being a familiar feeling to it. It understands that there are cultural differences and playstyle gaps. It has already assuaged two different concerns that it would base itself solely on mechanics, when infact it is clearly doing more than that. But information is information, and if it can use draft info to help corner scum, it's going to do that.

[Oblivion]

I've never like made a spreadsheet I just played mafia for 16 years and have anecdata

Organic isn't the right word but I couldn't figure out the right word. "The other stuff" is what I meant

Yes O-Ring is a 3 mana enchantment

Your experiences do not qualify as evidence that a methodology is bad, only that it doesn't suit your style. Just as its experiences do not qualify as evidence that Dave's curmudgeoning is explicitly scum, despite it being a familiar feeling to it. It understands that there are cultural differences and playstyle gaps. It has already assuaged two different concerns that it would base itself solely on mechanics, when infact it is clearly doing more than that. But information is information, and if it can use draft info to help corner scum, it's going to do that.

You don't have to brag about being obv town O-Ring c'mon

It... what? Apologies, it's attempting to find where it is bragging and is a little lost. Is this an attempt at humor that I'm missing? It's expecting it will be but it doesn't get it.

[Oblivion]

Jake submitted the best draft number.

It has interesting thoughts about that number. It felt it was strange to submit a number that would be guaranteed to be unique but had no chance of being lowest, as if the intended effect was to land squarely in the middle. It wonders why anyone would want that?

do u actually think ur going to get someones alignment from what numbers they picked. Or from all the history of this setup u looked at has anyone found scum from the draft numbers.

I personally don't care that much its a quasi funny intro to talk about the game but other than that its background noise to me.

It thinks it is a waste to leave information on the table when that information can assist us. That said, it doesn't think that the information itself is a useful tool for deciding our direction.

It is of the opinion that using that information as a Blade to delve into how others respond and play around it, like a sword dance, is valuable.

You don't watch the sword, you watch the footwork the sword forces to see the true intent of your opposition.

(It knows that is probably a corny metaphor but it quite likes it.)

This post kind of undermines any positive image for being the setup spec super jewelry of this particular run of the mech heavy setup so that's towny

It knows you are drunk and about to board a plane but could you take a moment to restate this so it can attempt to parse? It is truly lost on what this means.

[Oblivion]

Jake submitted the best draft number.

It has interesting thoughts about that number. It felt it was strange to submit a number that would be guaranteed to be unique but had no chance of being lowest, as if the intended effect was to land squarely in the middle. It wonders why anyone would want that?

I signed up to this game with the intention of submitting ω (the first transfinite ordinal number, omega) because I thought it would be funny. Alas, this proposal was denied. Instead, I submitted the first 15 digits of Tau, mainly because I didn't want to submit a meaningless large number

Sure, and if you're town it believes that is all that happened. It has to consider what you would do if you were scum and needed to work together with your team. It thinks that story works mostly to cover your number choice and deny a specific "reason" for picking from existing... but scum will have to work together with their picks, regardless.

[Oblivion]

Can it say that while it intellectually understands that all this masonry talk is kind of town block building from the foundation of what appears to be prior friendships for the sake of building something, emotionally this just feels like an in-group deciding who is and isn't town based on said friendships and gaining voting block control to dictate how things go, and it really doesn't know how to remotely interact with it. It feels massively uncomfortable, and it makes it sort of not want to interact with anyone who participates.

In short, it sucks that the depth of about four different players content in this game is wholy this thing, and that this thing is more or less just an exclusion method. It hates it, quite a bit.

[Oblivion]

So how is it meant to take it? If it takes it at face value, then it's an in-group building based upon how you connect with seemingly little other than past experiences, for the sake of town blocking.

If it's meant as a joke, then it's worse because it's accomplishing the same thing, except none of the content from said coalition is even usable because the argument will be "well don't take it too seriously" anytime someone tries to interrogate the behaviour on display. It's like Schrodinger's Cat, it's serious, unless it's not, and it's only not serious when you need to say it isn't?

It just feels frustrating because it makes it impossible to generate models on any of you because if the idea is "we're going to troll, but actually we're also building this too, but we're only joking" what is it meant to think?

Do you have any reads beyond town on the people you're doing this with?

[Oblivion]

like when it examines Firebringer's posts, there is possibly one in the entire thing that it can say doesn't relate to this topic and doesn't come across as just trying to be funny, and it's the one time they say "if i was trying to solve this game, this is who I think would be scum" and names June.

But that in itself is an issue because it means am I meant to take the rest of their posting as like, non-content? So then what am I meant to engage with?

[Oblivion]

penguin point is that its not very serious, if you want to read into it for alignment go for it. But if you are trying to make it out like we are excluding people from the cool club, thats not whats happening.

It isn't trying to make anything out as anything, it's telling you it's the effect of what you are doing upon it. It doesn't know how remotely to engage with any of you. To even begin in reading any of you.

[Oblivion]

like when it examines Firebringer's posts, there is possibly one in the entire thing that it can say doesn't relate to this topic and doesn't come across as just trying to be funny, and it's the one time they say "if i was trying to solve this game, this is who I think would be scum" and names June.

But that in itself is an issue because it means am I meant to take the rest of their posting as like, non-content? So then what am I meant to engage with?

i haven't really been trying to sort anyone yet tbh.

June i think is scummy but I think all the cat talk is just what irks me. I am not a fan of cats myself.

... because, Dog?

[Oblivion]

Regardless, if this is simply in jest and your goal is to become readable, it encourages you to please consider engaging with the game in other ways. Even if that means you decide to run through everything it has written and disagree with all of it and make a point of it or something, it doesn't care. It just can't see any value in this, and it's making it harder to interact. It didn't say much at first because it thought it was a one time joke but it hasn't yet ended so...

[Oblivion]

Dunno why really but I'm catching town vibes off this complaint from Oblivion

or is it scum frustrated can't integrate into the "town block"

For clarity, it is using Town Block derogatively, because these things nearly always have some form of scum infiltrate them and then sit there unmolested being protected by those who don't change their mind. It has no desire to belong to any town block, it thinks they are detrimental to game health and solving ability. There are a few setups where it could see something of that nature being valuable? A setup where finding townies is more valuable than finding scum, off the top of its head but it doesn't know what a setup like that would begin to look like.

It is just in its experience these in-groups take control and then ignore everything else and then poof, there is no hope.

[Oblivion]

It tries to be understanding of others playstyles and it gets wanting to have trusted elements to bounce ideas off of, but that doesn't mean it has to like or support when it sees one possibly forming? Especially when it can't evaluate what makes any members of it actually town, making it hard to make mental models of anything.

[Oblivion]

Dunno why really but I'm catching town vibes off this complaint from Oblivion

or is it scum frustrated can't integrate into the "town block"

See that's how I would read it if lazy braining, but seems like scum would be a lot cagier (cageyer?) about it

Paint me the picture of how this cagier method looks

Can it interject with an argument for why your suggested viewpoint is facile or should it wait for this person to answer the question first?

[Oblivion]

Like just trying to slide into the alleged town block rather than being like "hey quit making that town block over there"

is this how u would play it. Cause I don't think ive seen scum do this very much where they try to interject themselves into a townblock or by w/e ur suggesting.

Wait, what? You've never seen scum try to infiltrate a town block to have control and say over what the townblock votes and protection from being voted?

That... really?

[Oblivion]

the way i imagine people say infiltrate a townblock is like someone just showing up out of the blue uninvited and going "hello fellow town players" and everyone is cool with that. I think yall are saying something else when u say infiltrate.

It believes that infiltration of a townblock would look something more along the lines of beginning to force an interaction with one of the members, garner a townread, then use that existing structure to your benefit.

It does not think it looks like the skateboarding old man meme, entering the thread and being like "Oh, you're doing a masonry, can it join?"

[Oblivion]

the way i imagine people say infiltrate a townblock is like someone just showing up out of the blue uninvited and going "hello fellow town players" and everyone is cool with that. I think yall are saying something else when u say infiltrate.

It believes that infiltration of a townblock would look something more along the lines of beginning to force an interaction with one of the members, garner a townread, then use that existing structure to your benefit.

It does not think it looks like the skateboarding old man meme, entering the thread and being like "Oh, you're doing a masonry, can it join?"

They would like to inform It that while this may be a reasonable and almost natural movement that a scum member would take, this is batshit crazy to anyone who is like, aware of how players actually play the game.

I would be impressed by anyone who succesfully infiltrated a townbloc this way, because it is very difficult to intentionally appear town.

It...

It doesn't know what to say to that.

[Oblivion]

Obliveon seems good. Buggy-type towny energy.

I also like Penguin and MAy

VOTE: Oblivion

Run this up folks

how often does this work for u btw

Never has but one day I think i will have enough clout and swagger that everyone will go along with me.

It's also funny to be right and totally correct but present the right opinion in a totally wrong way.

What, precisely, changed from this post to this post, Gob?

[Oblivion]

If you somehow had a reliable method to appear town in even over 50% of your games, you would probably have some mastery over some part of human psychology and should probably be doing better things besides / in addition to playing Mafia.

This really boils down to "Mafia would be fundamentally flawed if there were a general method to fool people into believing that you are town."

And what if Mafia is what it... normally, finds relaxing? What if Mafia is a place where it can be somewhat unethical and experiment with the human condition and just have fun?

It feels like there are people who are good enough to do this... and who do this for fun, it doesn't know if it is among them, it aspires to be? But it believes it to be possible.

[Oblivion]

you would probably have some mastery over some part of human psychology and should probably be doing better things besides / in addition to playing Mafia.

i have plenty of other things i should be doing instead, this is accurate

Such items include: Barking at Cats, Setting precious treasures on fire, working closely with law enforcement?

[Oblivion]

you would probably have some mastery over some part of human psychology and should probably be doing better things besides / in addition to playing Mafia.

i have plenty of other things i should be doing instead, this is accurate

Such items include: Barking at Cats, Setting precious treasures on fire, working closely with law enforcement?

i only do two of these things

You and Officer Jenny no longer have a working relationship? What happened?

[Oblivion]

you would probably have some mastery over some part of human psychology and should probably be doing better things besides / in addition to playing Mafia.

i have plenty of other things i should be doing instead, this is accurate

Such items include: Barking at Cats, Setting precious treasures on fire, working closely with law enforcement?

i only do two of these things

You and Officer Jenny no longer have a working relationship? What happened?

she got a meowth. Unacceptable

A travesty, to be certain.

While it has your ear, is there legitimately any way it is going to be able to get straight answers out of you if it tries to pick your brain and get a Mental Model of you or will you just make jokes at its expense and then do a kickflip into a nose grind away? (Its current model of you indicates you will do the later, but it's hoping it is wrong).

[Oblivion]

i like to think of myself as unpredictable, but i may answer ur questions pretty forthcoming, really will depend on my mood and how willing i am to unravel the mysteries of my mind. I like many people work better with pointed questions, so if u really want to get insight into what i am thinking u will probably ask decent enough questions from what ive seen u ask so far.

But I will give very lazy answers to lazy questions most of the time. So if u ask me general question. What is ur read of X. I will give u a very brief answer if one at all.

Okay, that's sufficient. Let it see if it can examine back through the game and decide what questions would inform it best about you? Give it.... 5 minutes, tops. It won't barrage you with questions either, it's thinking 2 or 3? To start, at least. Not "for the whole game". You get it, it thinks.

[Oblivion]

if i was pretending to solve the game, I would go with June as one scum.
But I am not pretending to solve right now.

I am too busy chilling in the PT with penguinpower, talking about anime

It takes you as a player who at least considers the impact of statements you make while you make them, and this statement still rings as the most engagable from you for me, so let me start here.

Rather than asking you "why do you think June is scum here?" I want to know the following two things

1) What from June's reactions to this post and posting after the fact when you supposedly discovered their alt made you flip your read on this player?
2) Given that you now do think June is town (is its understanding, correct it if not), what do you think of other players reactions to this post and interactions with June in hindsight? Is there any player in particular you think looks worse in a world where June is town?

[Oblivion]

If you somehow had a reliable method to appear town in even over 50% of your games, you would probably have some mastery over some part of human psychology and should probably be doing better things besides / in addition to playing Mafia.

This really boils down to "Mafia would be fundamentally flawed if there were a general method to fool people into believing that you are town."

And what if Mafia is what it... normally, finds relaxing? What if Mafia is a place where it can be somewhat unethical and experiment with the human condition and just have fun?

It feels like there are people who are good enough to do this... and who do this for fun, it doesn't know if it is among them, it aspires to be? But it believes it to be possible.

I think there's also the note that if someone had demonstrated mastery over trickery, that person would recieve special scrutiny by anyone not wishing to be made a fool of again.

In any case, this is all mafia theory and would be better suited for a mafia discussion thread. As for the original point, people don't get indoctrinated into the townbloc because, like, they flashed The Doctor's psychic paper to unsuspecting victims. They get into the townbloc because they've both been generally townread by enough people and because they are actively helping the town win the game.

Sure, let's depart from theory and into the game.

You've done more relevant words to help it understand your Mental Model here regarding something that can't even begin to be considered alignment indicative than you have about the entire actual game so far. It gets from you that you have, in yourself, at least some confidence in your ability to read and play this game, and so my question is this: Where are your reads, why aren't you engaging with players to generate content, and why are you so comfortable sitting back and letting things play out without your thumb on the scale, so to speak?

[Oblivion]

Rather than asking you "why do you think June is scum here?" I want to know the following two things

1) What from June's reactions to this post and posting after the fact when you supposedly discovered their alt made you flip your read on this player?
2) Given that you now do think June is town (is its understanding, correct it if not), what do you think of other players reactions to this post and interactions with June in hindsight? Is there any player in particular you think looks worse in a world where June is town?

1) I wouldn't say my read flipped on June. I would say I am more cautious. I think June main is one i am more likely to feel those posts made by June are less alignment indicative so I am waiting for her to do something I consider scummy. I do think her comment about being a powerful role is a lie though.
2) Well I don't think June is town.

Are u talking about all the posts in which people swept in immediately and called June town?

Wasn't that Dunnyboi and Gob?

Gob is like a contrarian to me.
Dunnyboi usually disagrees with me.

So I didn't take too much stock in it. If June is in fact town I would say gob overreaction could be white knighting if i really decided to squint harder, but I could see the reverse being just as true that June talk with cats and such was just subtle buddying of Gob or something.

It was, yes. Sorry if it was being vague, it didn't want to exactly spoonfeed you what it was thinking of, but make enough reference so that you would understand?

Then, between Gob and Dunn and June right now, if you were forced to shoot one of them, who would you kill? Follow up question, if that player flipped town, who among the whole playerbase would you shoot with that information? Actually, if they flip scum, who would you shoot too?

[Oblivion]

idk who i would kill regardless of what Gob flipped. I haven't really been thinking about any associations if gob was scum. I don't even really think gob is scum right now, we are assuming a lot of things at this point and bound to be wrong on a few assumptions.

If gob is town then idk what that means for June or Dunnyboi
If gob is scum it probably means at least June is town

It can tell you who it would shoot if Gob was town and if Gob was scum, but it worries it will cause another "USING THE NUMBERS" argument...

But it has what it thinks are some decent ideas? Would you be interested in engaging with those?

[Oblivion]

i actually dont think in general 'this' is how i would play as a wolf anymore it's not really fun to do nothing and then die for it

Do you have a player in this game you're most afraid of being unable to read correctly?

[Oblivion]

Apologies if that is a weird question, it just had this sudden sense of you as a player who is very anxious and desperately does not want to be put in a situation where the whole game relies on your choices, so I was interested in who if anyone you are most worried about.

[Oblivion]

i am almost curious on what ur thinking but ive kind of sorted u in my town pile so im not that curious because now i don't really need to sort u.

I am not that interested in going down wild mass guessing in worlds of gob alignment right now. Kind of want to explore other players independently instead of associations. I don't use associations until i get some actual flips underneath to know if i am at least living in the correct world.

That is... a reasonable point, actually. It might do more harm than good making conversation about 3 layers deep on "if, then" scenarios.

It will keep these thoughts to itself, and perhaps bring them up later when they are more relevant?

[Oblivion]

i actually dont think in general 'this' is how i would play as a wolf anymore it's not really fun to do nothing and then die for it

Do you have a player in this game you're most afraid of being unable to read correctly?

not really ask me at eod

Apologies if that is a weird question, it just had this sudden sense of you as a player who is very anxious and desperately does not want to be put in a situation where the whole game relies on your choices, so I was interested in who if anyone you are most worried about.

Can you tell me if this assessment of you is accurate, though? If you can't answer the question currently, that is.

[Oblivion]

We can discuss associations more day 2 or something, sure.

Okay. It has one more question for you, then.

It is having a hard time engaging with people to try and solve them, and you seem to know pretty much everyone here. Which player do you think it would benefit the most from bouncing its questions and thoughts off of to develop a model for and possibly work together with if it can find them as town?

[Oblivion]

Jake submitted the best draft number.

It has interesting thoughts about that number. It felt it was strange to submit a number that would be guaranteed to be unique but had no chance of being lowest, as if the intended effect was to land squarely in the middle. It wonders why anyone would want that?

do u actually think ur going to get someones alignment from what numbers they picked. Or from all the history of this setup u looked at has anyone found scum from the draft numbers.

I personally don't care that much its a quasi funny intro to talk about the game but other than that its background noise to me.

It thinks it is a waste to leave information on the table when that information can assist us. That said, it doesn't think that the information itself is a useful tool for deciding our direction.

It is of the opinion that using that information as a Blade to delve into how others respond and play around it, like a sword dance, is valuable.

You don't watch the sword, you watch the footwork the sword forces to see the true intent of your opposition.

(It knows that is probably a corny metaphor but it quite likes it.)

This post kind of undermines any positive image for being the setup spec super jewelry of this particular run of the mech heavy setup so that's towny

It knows you are drunk and about to board a plane but could you take a moment to restate this so it can attempt to parse? It is truly lost on what this means.

The post isn't very lamisty

I'm about to deboard a plane and am not drunk it's miserable

What is... lamisty?

[Oblivion]

I was in the air so little how is there all the pages

It... may have spent the free time it has here attempting to get a foothold into the game and generate content for itself and others to better solve. It tries to be more verbose within its own posts to avoid making too much spam but... alas.

[Oblivion]

It being town has nothing to do with it finding scum, though. It wants to try and get Mental Models of everyone, then solve.

[Oblivion]

It genuinely appreciates you saying that, May.

[Oblivion]

Can it say that while it intellectually understands that all this masonry talk is kind of town block building from the foundation of what appears to be prior friendships for the sake of building something, emotionally this just feels like an in-group deciding who is and isn't town based on said friendships and gaining voting block control to dictate how things go, and it really doesn't know how to remotely interact with it. It feels massively uncomfortable, and it makes it sort of not want to interact with anyone who participates.

In short, it sucks that the depth of about four different players content in this game is wholy this thing, and that this thing is more or less just an exclusion method. It hates it, quite a bit.

Do you wanna b besties

So its answer to this is probably yes, as a result.

[Oblivion]

Foreverbests

Time to drunkensleep tomorrow my face hairs is zapped by the pain machine

It knows this feeling... intimately. If you catch it's drift? Like, in a more painful area, perhaps.

[Oblivion]

It Will be busy today but attempt to make some posts Tonight.

[Oblivion]

It had a very hard day yesterday, and it has now fallen ill. It is reading along as the game goes to ensure it remains caught up, so it will not fall behind. To assist it, can players provide it things that they want its take on or ask it questions by quoting this post so it can receive notifications to respond to when it has energy again?

It would be very grateful, friends.

[Oblivion]

Where is o ring

It lives, once more. Its head hurts, quite a bit, but it lives.

[Oblivion]

It is around to be able to interact now, though. It saw the things it was quoted with and will respond to them when in due time with effort, but it can do interactions with anyone who is around now?

[Oblivion]

It had a very hard day yesterday, and it has now fallen ill. It is reading along as the game goes to ensure it remains caught up, so it will not fall behind. To assist it, can players provide it things that they want its take on or ask it questions by quoting this post so it can receive notifications to respond to when it has energy again?

It would be very grateful, friends.

Any thoughts on the very spread out vote count, with many people voting players who are virtually certain to have a PR?

Can you show an example of two mafia picking the same draft number in a previous version of this setup?

The point is that they could, not that they will. Whether they have or not is immaterial, gambler's fallacy.

This is a game of "could"s, though. Determining what is more likely and staking your moves on that, then adapting with new information is the entire methodology of the game.

Simply stating that because somehting "could" happen that we shouldn't act upon the idea that it is unlikely and attempt to solve with a mentality in mind feels reductive and dismissive, to it.

It thinks there is a good line of reasoning and ability to choose where to look first in the logic it has presented. It even stated that it wasn't willing to say it was a certainty, and yet here we are discussing in a circle about "if something IS possible then we should consider both worlds" instead of hedging and using logic to try and eliminate worlds until proven otherwise.

Eliminating people from consideration as possible scum without evidence from their posting and votes (and before mechanical results but that comes later) is one of the worst things town can do.
Not sure why it's focusing on 17 when it didn't even say anything until 40, care to explain that aspect of the points it's making?

It felt that Brian's take on this interaction was what it saw too as it was reading along but was too sick to post? It won't go as far as to say "Brian had the exact same thought process as it" but, the fact he saw what it saw was a good sign for his alignment it thinks? Mental Model on him would be helpful to see if it's the kind of thing he can fake, but it feels like it makes him more likely town than not, especially if Dave is scum like it thinks.

[Oblivion]

Does it find voting for Brian a favorable idea?

sorry, it was supposed to quote your post too with that post, so it is quoting you now to notify you.

[Oblivion]

VOTE: Brian Skies

Did you read its take? Do you disagree with it?

[Oblivion]

VOTE: Brian Skies

Did you read its take? Do you disagree with it?

It speaks with confusing language that was not considered when the vote was cast. After more carefully rereading it, I can confirm that I have no access to its' privileged information, and thus can only go by what it states.

I will say that Dave is not on my radar at the moment.

Did you not get what Brian was saying in his post? That Dave contradicted himself with his different takes, depending upon what benefitted him at the moment?

[Oblivion]

VOTE: Brian Skies

Did you read its take? Do you disagree with it?

It speaks with confusing language that was not considered when the vote was cast. After more carefully rereading it, I can confirm that I have no access to its' privileged information, and thus can only go by what it states.

I will say that Dave is not on my radar at the moment.

Did you not get what Brian was saying in his post? That Dave contradicted himself with his different takes, depending upon what benefitted him at the moment?

Those two positions are compatible, if it understands that the desire to lim outside the top of the list is a d1 strategy, while the desire to not permanently ignore slots is a whole game strategy.

Except it believes this is more examples of you misrepresenting things for your own benefit and purpose, whenever it benefits you situationally. You explicitly are using draft as a conditional to temporarily ignore slots for your reads, and then evolve from there. That is PRECISELY what it said, but you misrepresented it and are now using its own stance as if you were okay with it the whole time.

[Oblivion]

For example, the fact that you are still saying it wanted to "permanently ignore slots" by this point after it has explained itself several times by this point makes it believe that you are not acting in good faith, and rather trying to continue that narrative for your own benefit.

[Oblivion]

yeah that got a little word salady

basically, i thought if dave actually cared about not wagoning the top half of the draft he would either

1. not make that comment in the first place
2. subsidize the comment with concern about the wagon or tell people to save it for post-d1

i guess making that comment without realizing where pavowski was on the list makes more sense

For what it is worth, combined with what it is already describing it thinks this is further evidence that Dave is selectively choosing when to apply his logic based on his own evidence, and claiming ignorance or pushing narratives when called on it?

[Oblivion]

It... can someone interact with its thoughts please? It feels like the conversation is moving past it and it's trying with what little energy it has.

[Oblivion]

It... can someone interact with its thoughts please? It feels like the conversation is moving past it and it's trying with what little energy it has.

the main convo over the last page has been a bit of a fever dream in general. I'm around, and keen to discuss the things. I'm also still recovering from sickness this'll be cute

It knows the feeling, it has felt strongly like it's conveying its thoughts but it admits maybe it is feverdreaming.

Can you talk to it about May? It thinks you and I think differently about that slot.

[Oblivion]

like at some point after 863 Dave checks the list to see where Pavowski is, probably because he's thinking about moving his vote there?

but then he doesn't say anything further about pavowski until I specifically ask why he isn't voting there

i don't know maybe I'm picking at nothing and am overestimating how much dave actually cares about not wagoning potential PRs

it also thinks this way, because it thinks in a world where Pav is town Pav is the easiest elimination and a good escape from day 1 if a scumteam were in threat of losing a member day 1. which makes it think perhaps dave is scum and scum with another possible elimination target from today? Does that track?

[Oblivion]

It... can someone interact with its thoughts please? It feels like the conversation is moving past it and it's trying with what little energy it has.

the main convo over the last page has been a bit of a fever dream in general. I'm around, and keen to discuss the things. I'm also still recovering from sickness this'll be cute

It knows the feeling, it has felt strongly like it's conveying its thoughts but it admits maybe it is feverdreaming.

Can you talk to it about May? It thinks you and I think differently about that slot.

I'mma drop some very surface thoughts because I'm aware I haven't been digesting this game as well as I need to and May isn't an easy sort.

I think May is really charismatic and very capable of leading original thoughts. I think May has been quick to test ideas and slow to commit to them, and I haven't minded May's ideas for the most part but there's really been nothing in there which has blown me away? Many of her earlier takes felt like they aligned with Firebringer's or were like, quite achievable by kinda following the tone of the thread.

I felt like the conversation between gob & Firebringer & Dann was about things which appear to align with May's interests and I was surprised to see her pop in without really advancing any reads or having a new perspective on anything

Like May is cool perspective incarnate as a player and I'm not seeing anything that excites me yet and it's making me increasingly nervous

So in your opinion May's lack of commitment to a position and thus lack of desire to make anything stick to her is indicative that she is setting up for later to have less possible bad reads/connectives on her? Or, rather, that this is a possibility she is capable of and thus something to be concerned about?

[Oblivion]

It... can someone interact with its thoughts please? It feels like the conversation is moving past it and it's trying with what little energy it has.

the main convo over the last page has been a bit of a fever dream in general. I'm around, and keen to discuss the things. I'm also still recovering from sickness this'll be cute

It knows the feeling, it has felt strongly like it's conveying its thoughts but it admits maybe it is feverdreaming.

Can you talk to it about May? It thinks you and I think differently about that slot.

I'mma drop some very surface thoughts because I'm aware I haven't been digesting this game as well as I need to and May isn't an easy sort.

I think May is really charismatic and very capable of leading original thoughts. I think May has been quick to test ideas and slow to commit to them, and I haven't minded May's ideas for the most part but there's really been nothing in there which has blown me away? Many of her earlier takes felt like they aligned with Firebringer's or were like, quite achievable by kinda following the tone of the thread.

I felt like the conversation between gob & Firebringer & Dann was about things which appear to align with May's interests and I was surprised to see her pop in without really advancing any reads or having a new perspective on anything

Like May is cool perspective incarnate as a player and I'm not seeing anything that excites me yet and it's making me increasingly nervous

So in your opinion May's lack of commitment to a position and thus lack of desire to make anything stick to her is indicative that she is setting up for later to have less possible bad reads/connectives on her? Or, rather, that this is a possibility she is capable of and thus something to be concerned about?

I'm not really interested in committing to a "this therefore that" on May rn, I have little interest in casing her and great interest in vibing

I think she's underwhelming, I think she's playing it safe and I'm finding her solving non-indiosyncratic & inauthentic I guess

Apologies, it... tends to think in If, Then manners to be able to understand possibilities. It knows that this will make its takes seem harsher than otherwise might be implied, but... it's how it thinks? Logical pathing from Intent.

[Oblivion]

brian flashwagon dreams will have to wait another day.

VOTE: the worst

It thought you asking for Brian reads and then suddenly going "Vote Brian" and not really reading into or engaging with its argument was very strange. It feels like you were just seeking to recruit its vote for your benefit, with the knowledge of this post.

It... doesn't know what to make of that behaviour.

[Oblivion]

It... can someone interact with its thoughts please? It feels like the conversation is moving past it and it's trying with what little energy it has.

the main convo over the last page has been a bit of a fever dream in general. I'm around, and keen to discuss the things. I'm also still recovering from sickness this'll be cute

It knows the feeling, it has felt strongly like it's conveying its thoughts but it admits maybe it is feverdreaming.

Can you talk to it about May? It thinks you and I think differently about that slot.

I'mma drop some very surface thoughts because I'm aware I haven't been digesting this game as well as I need to and May isn't an easy sort.

I think May is really charismatic and very capable of leading original thoughts. I think May has been quick to test ideas and slow to commit to them, and I haven't minded May's ideas for the most part but there's really been nothing in there which has blown me away? Many of her earlier takes felt like they aligned with Firebringer's or were like, quite achievable by kinda following the tone of the thread.

I felt like the conversation between gob & Firebringer & Dann was about things which appear to align with May's interests and I was surprised to see her pop in without really advancing any reads or having a new perspective on anything

Like May is cool perspective incarnate as a player and I'm not seeing anything that excites me yet and it's making me increasingly nervous

So in your opinion May's lack of commitment to a position and thus lack of desire to make anything stick to her is indicative that she is setting up for later to have less possible bad reads/connectives on her? Or, rather, that this is a possibility she is capable of and thus something to be concerned about?

I'm not really interested in committing to a "this therefore that" on May rn, I have little interest in casing her and great interest in vibing

I think she's underwhelming, I think she's playing it safe and I'm finding her solving non-indiosyncratic & inauthentic I guess

Apologies, it... tends to think in If, Then manners to be able to understand possibilities. It knows that this will make its takes seem harsher than otherwise might be implied, but... it's how it thinks? Logical pathing from Intent.

No apologies needed, that's a much more sensible thought trajectory than my own and I find its logic very easy to parse I'm often a little bit hard to follow and even when I do make a case it tends to rely a bit on a vibe so I can see why it saw that and was like "ok but what next".

What's got it townreading May, or is there anything specific it could point to that conflicts with the impression of her that I'm getting?

It didn't have your impression, so it is going to review May's posting for sake of interrogating that concept and deciding if it thinks it is a possible angle May is taking.

It's townread on May came from a single post, but it's going to be weird to... let me grab it for you.

[Oblivion]

O-Ring, Firebringer is a really easy late game read you should needle someone else more

This is the post where it sorted May as town. It has three reasonsings.

Firstly, it feels that the O-Ring thing being kept up as a consistent bit from her was something intended to include it, which it knows doesn't have to come from town but it felt like given her consistent inclusion of it, it was a townie trying to get another townie to feel involved.

This matches with its second point, that telling it to focus its strikes elsewhere was a transparent connective to Firebringer and that with no one choosing to correct her, that it wasn't untrue. So, if true, she did a connective to a slot that will become scumread later, it thinks that feels like town not looking after their own image, as opposed to scum redirecting it from Firebringer.

Thirdly, it thinks the tone in which May approaches it is one of... seeking to help, and it comes across without as much manipulation attempt as it thinks there could be, given that it enjoys interacting with May.

In general, May feels... like a genuine tonwie trying to help it, from this one post.

[Oblivion]

brian flashwagon dreams will have to wait another day.

VOTE: the worst

It thought you asking for Brian reads and then suddenly going "Vote Brian" and not really reading into or engaging with its argument was very strange. It feels like you were just seeking to recruit its vote for your benefit, with the knowledge of this post.

It... doesn't know what to make of that behaviour.

While the reads are a nice touch, I was expecting it to comply with my call to action. Duckland's wagon is boring and I want to run someone up that hasn't gathered attention.

Maybe I'll consider a vacation to Yessiree. I have no recollection of his posts, or even his avatar.

Why did you expect it to follow you and heed that call?

[Oblivion]

Yes, but why choose to engage it specifically, given you didn't do that for anyone else?

[Oblivion]

Firebringer, it desires to bounce ideas off of you. Are you willing to interact with a feverish reduced version of it?

[Oblivion]

Why don't u just recover first, we can bounce ideas of later

Because it has spent a bit recovering and it feels like it is already losing pacing in the game, so it really wants to stay atop things.

[Oblivion]

Why don't u just recover first, we can bounce ideas of later

Because it has spent a bit recovering and it feels like it is already losing pacing in the game, so it really wants to stay atop things.

Alright, then go for it

It's mind has begun to converge on a section of players it wants to kill. It has a list of names for that purpose, and it wants to talk through that list.

It wishes to begin with Dave. Do you feel opposed to killing Dave today? There doesn't seem to be as much interest there despite, to its eyes, Dave being the most scummy in the thread.

[Oblivion]

We are not killing the second in the draft order D1.

By this logic, if scum outdraft is we essentially are burning townies and eliminations for fun and profit to avoid hitting potential roles?

[Oblivion]

t's mind has begun to converge on a section of players it wants to kill. It has a list of names for that purpose, and it wants to talk through that list.

It wishes to begin with Dave. Do you feel opposed to killing Dave today? There doesn't seem to be as much interest there despite, to its eyes, Dave being the most scummy in the thread.

Dave is not on my hit list right now.
I can only give u meta of previous experience with dave to tell u that nothing out of the ordinary i have seen from dave to make me think he is better than just random firing in this game to find scum.

If you got specific posts or such u want to work a scum case on him, im open to listening but most of what dave has done here is just push w/e is top wagon. He is going to rely on game mechanics to do most of the heavy lifting of sorting this game, plus VCA when he gets it. If he is scum, he can easily hide behind all this. But for instance him not actively pursuing a push on his preferred 'read', isn't something I consider scummy when he just wants wagon data and to move into the night.

Its issue with Dave is that he comes across as using opportunistic strategies to advance his agendas and not being transparent or townie in doing so. It's one thing to have a goal, it's another to try and accomplish that goal while remaining at arms length and being contradictory to their own beliefs while doing it.

[Oblivion]

I am aware that it wishes to execute Dave, but I am unaware of the wrongdoings of Dave.

It's said it across several posts today, but its take on Dave's interactions with it and the thread is essentially that Dave is trying to accomplish goals like game control and shifting targets for elimination without consistent logic and with tactics it considers shady and suspicious.

[Oblivion]

We are not killing the second in the draft order D1.

By this logic, if scum outdraft is we essentially are burning townies and eliminations for fun and profit to avoid hitting potential roles?

Did you miss where I said this was restricted to D1?

No, it did not. It knows any game has a limited number of town eliminations before we lose, and with two possible vigilantes in the game, burning townies is the last thing on its mind. It doesn't know if it agrees that we have a whole Day and Night cycle to give. If both Vigs are in the game and even one is in the hands of scum, the odds that both vigs hit town increase dramatically. It believes, as a result if we hit town day 1 without consideration, and then two vigs eventually remove two more town, we're at what 6-3? That leaves us with 1 elimination before we are in endgame.

It's just not certain that there is a good world where we can afford to say "these players are off limits for a day, go searching elsewhere". It understands the logic, infact it gets the entire concept given there are a lot of powerful town roles in the game we do not wish to expose but it really thinks that something like this should be considered the same way that number logic psychology should. A place to begin, but if a player is transparently the most scummy player in the lobby... it's not right to just allow that player to thrive unchecked.

[Oblivion]

Its issue with Dave is that he comes across as using opportunistic strategies to advance his agendas and not being transparent or townie in doing so. It's one thing to have a goal, it's another to try and accomplish that goal while remaining at arms length and being contradictory to their own beliefs while doing it.

if you can show me the scum agenda im listening, I see no agenda other than moving a wagon. Getting to the night, etc.

Do u think he is purposefully pushing players he thinks are town, if so, where?

From its perspective, it thinks that Dave is leveraging his draft position and his nature to make counter logical arguments to shift wagons away from specific targets. It wrote about this in a post... let it grab it for you. It thinks Dave is scum trying to control how this phase goes for the sake of a strategy.

[Oblivion]

like at some point after 863 Dave checks the list to see where Pavowski is, probably because he's thinking about moving his vote there?

but then he doesn't say anything further about pavowski until I specifically ask why he isn't voting there

i don't know maybe I'm picking at nothing and am overestimating how much dave actually cares about not wagoning potential PRs

it also thinks this way, because it thinks in a world where Pav is town Pav is the easiest elimination and a good escape from day 1 if a scumteam were in threat of losing a member day 1. which makes it think perhaps dave is scum and scum with another possible elimination target from today? Does that track?

Here is the post it makes a similar argument.

[Oblivion]

From its perspective, it thinks that Dave is leveraging his draft position and his nature to make counter logical arguments to shift wagons away from specific targets. It wrote about this in a post... let it grab it for you. It thinks Dave is scum trying to control how this phase goes for the sake of a strategy.

Okay and you think that strategy benefits scum? Or is this theory talking about how it could possibly benefit scum depending on where they landed in draft. Cause now we are speculating on speculating. If you think he is providing a strategy he thinks is beneficial to scum and twisting it to say its beneficial for town.

We in business.
I doubt thats the case because hell even when im scum i usually tell town what I legit think is the best town strategy to do. I usually do this because I think town is gonna ignore me regardless, but also people will townread me for pushing it as well.

It thinks the following three things.

It thinks Pav is an easy target and its experience says easy targets rarely flip scum, at least, not the way Pav looks.

It thinks Dave's behaviour indicates that there is a deeper agenda behind his moves that don't match his words, and that he is behaving in a way that harms town.

It thinks that as a result, Dave probably has a partner that is under fire he is protecting from being a wagon or is possibly a wagon that might tip over, and so is directing towards Pav as a result.

That's its argument.

[Oblivion]

We are not killing the second in the draft order D1.

By this logic, if scum outdraft is we essentially are burning townies and eliminations for fun and profit to avoid hitting potential roles?

If we have a POE of 5 people, including 1 at the top and 4 at the bottom of the draft, it generally makes sense to sort through those at the bottom before those at the top. Night actions can help to tidy up the alignments of the rest of the POE if we're incorrect about the person at the top.

This is a mechanical argument so coming from me, it's boring and unconvincing but it's got logical merit.

I'd love to hear what it's scumreading about Dave

It understands that much of the argument, but currently it thinks Brian and Pav are town, and Dave is scum. It thinks Firebringer is town, it knows it is town...

That does not leave much of the bottom of the list. NotAScum? It has no read at all on that slot, it doesn't even have a mental model of it from lack of interaction. You? It has found your posting to it mostly informative and matching wits with it, it's not impossible you're scum and it doesn't have as much of a town read on you as it does Brian Pav or Firebringer but it wouldn't consider you its day one priority.

So where does that leave it to look but the top? Jake's weird number to land in the middle play? Gob's inane posts that it doesn't even want to begin interacting with? Sure, it'll kill either of those. Jake's poke at it to join the brian Wagon make it feel strange and suspicious. Gob's posting has made it want to kill him on sight but it thinks that may be annoyance?

[Oblivion]

From its perspective, it thinks that Dave is leveraging his draft position and his nature to make counter logical arguments to shift wagons away from specific targets. It wrote about this in a post... let it grab it for you. It thinks Dave is scum trying to control how this phase goes for the sake of a strategy.

Okay and you think that strategy benefits scum? Or is this theory talking about how it could possibly benefit scum depending on where they landed in draft. Cause now we are speculating on speculating. If you think he is providing a strategy he thinks is beneficial to scum and twisting it to say its beneficial for town.

We in business.
I doubt thats the case because hell even when im scum i usually tell town what I legit think is the best town strategy to do. I usually do this because I think town is gonna ignore me regardless, but also people will townread me for pushing it as well.

It thinks the following three things.

It thinks Pav is an easy target and its experience says easy targets rarely flip scum, at least, not the way Pav looks.

It thinks Dave's behaviour indicates that there is a deeper agenda behind his moves that don't match his words, and that he is behaving in a way that harms town.

It thinks that as a result, Dave probably has a partner that is under fire he is protecting from being a wagon or is possibly a wagon that might tip over, and so is directing towards Pav as a result.

That's its argument.

Dave is on the pav counter wagon though…

True, but Brian is also town from its position.

[Oblivion]

That... actually tracks? It didn't really consider that as a possible outcome.

[Oblivion]

uhhhh i think davesaz makes more sense as scum in a scum!Pav world and davesaz is soft pushing there but using his policy to avoid actually voting there

Referring to this post, sorry. Meant to quote.

[Oblivion]

like at some point after 863 Dave checks the list to see where Pavowski is, probably because he's thinking about moving his vote there?

but then he doesn't say anything further about pavowski until I specifically ask why he isn't voting there

i don't know maybe I'm picking at nothing and am overestimating how much dave actually cares about not wagoning potential PRs

it also thinks this way, because it thinks in a world where Pav is town Pav is the easiest elimination and a good escape from day 1 if a scumteam were in threat of losing a member day 1. which makes it think perhaps dave is scum and scum with another possible elimination target from today? Does that track?

I don't think Dave tends to bus, but I think I'd regard him as weakly more likely to speak up against a mechanically sub-optimal miselim if he were to be scum and looking at a town miselim.

I was also scum with Dave like super recently so I hope this is helpful.

I also like that Dave is present, is talking and has a blend of mechs reads and what I'll call sass. This will sound more critical than intended but I feel like he felt a little bit more directionless d1 in our scumgame since there was really nothing mechanical to latch onto.

This is pretty semantic I'm not as married to my Dave townread as I was earlier

Oblivion!!! I thought we were friends

Oh, god, What did it do? It's really fuzzy and feverish. Did you say something to the effect of what Dann said and it didn't understand you? Whatever it did, it's sorry...

[Oblivion]

We aren’t yeeting dave or Pav today.

what's your cutoff line, then, 4th?

[Oblivion]

We aren’t yeeting dave or Pav today.

what's your cutoff line, then, 4th?

Idk…I don’t want a hard line but the top 3 or 4 likely got a role or got nothing and can get caught…yesireeish is the line.

It has a confession. It sort of forgot Yesiree existed in the game, it had a total void on an opinion on that player. You mentioned the name as the line and it went to go look and was like "okay, so who is this?" and drew a total blank.

[Oblivion]

May, it returns hopped up on Nyquil. Can you give it some time to bounce ideas off you and build more of a model on you?

[Oblivion]

Yes O Ring you can bounce stuff off me for 3 hours I think

It saw you responded to the discussion it had about its read on you, with a joke it thinks, can you talk to it more about its take on the reasons it finds you town and the warnings it was given? It understands the very nature of you discussing it has WIFOM elements, but it will help it model you either way so it would like to hear your thoughts on both sides of that discussion in earnest.

Then, it would like to discuss Brian Skies, because you have just called him scum and it is of the opinion he is town, but its town read on him is based on having had a moment of agreement with him that felt like it came from a similar mindset of townishness, it can't articulate more than "he felt like me" so it would like to dive deep on Brian with you.

[Oblivion]

I don't want you to town read me because I'm worried you will get NK and if you develop another correct read the risk increases. I gave you a nickname to manipulate you. I've never cast a Sun Titan.


[
quote="Brian Skies" post_id=14107560 post_num=560 time=1709237771 user_id=22309]
Pavowski feels less scummy in iso.

This is one of the posts I didn't like. I believe he isoed pav and found the iso more agreeable without other posts but it feels like actually posting this doesn't affect the gamestate in a way that helps Brian with a town wincon. Obviously not persuasive without reasoning. I'd expect the post to just not exist.
[/quote]

It burst out laughing, that's a first.

It will go look at Brian's posts with that lens in mind, and come back and let you know what it thinks.

[Oblivion]

Firebringer, did you know that I'm the least likely person to be a town PR? It can even be argued that eliminating me in the absence of better options is actually a pro-town move.

This post just reads like a correct assessment coming from the wrong player to be saying it. Like, it's true but why is the player who benefits the least from it saying it?

[Oblivion]

It guesses perhaps it is a self deprication, or exasperation? But... still...

[Oblivion]

I have trouble developing a town mental model for post 597

Did I use the word right?

The way it uses Mental Model is...

If it has a mental model of you, it can run a simulation in its mind for a situation, and predict a series of outcomes with differening likelyhoods of occuring, then backtrace the unknown variables that might have causes those responses to be more likely to occur, so..

if it had a good mental model of a player and asked itself "if it was voted in this scenario, using the mental model of that player, how would it respond" it then tracks different responses that are reasonable for that model (a range, perhaps?) and then decides what is LIKELY and then decides what would make those things more likely, often asking whether those motivations come from town or scum.

And obviously, the best place to use that is once someone DOES do something, asking why that something was the outcome.

[Oblivion]

I think it's not enough that it endangers his own slot it's that it's thought provoking in a way that doesn't foster day play behavior so it just kinda has some shock factor that could re-rand the read landscape but lacks any harvest of insights the way accusing Dave of selectively using mech does or etc

So in essence you think it reads like something someone might say for the sake of appearing town by virtue of absurdity (why would scum offer themselves up like this? Because it might convince townies to think that way and ignore them) and holds very little town motivational value as a model that you can find reasoning wise to do?

[Oblivion]

It's kinda funny that I should theoretically do a little stuff that expresses alignment to worst but if I just like don't do anything to express alignment to Dannflor at all and just exist for 3 day phases it's like 99% likely he will read me

I also do think I don't need to do things that make Oblivion Ring town read me

All the other slots do matter like normal tho I didn't rand jester

Whoa pedits

Apologies, when its brain hits a thought it tends to explode into action, and then when it doesn't it waits quietly for the next moment to explode.

[Oblivion]

I think it's not enough that it endangers his own slot it's that it's thought provoking in a way that doesn't foster day play behavior so it just kinda has some shock factor that could re-rand the read landscape but lacks any harvest of insights the way accusing Dave of selectively using mech does or etc

So in essence you think it reads like something someone might say for the sake of appearing town by virtue of absurdity (why would scum offer themselves up like this? Because it might convince townies to think that way and ignore them) and holds very little town motivational value as a model that you can find reasoning wise to do?

Yeah. I guess you could say it's a brand of LAMIST that never leads to a townread with a protown amount of integrity

What is LAMIST? Someone else used that term earlier and it asked about it and it doesn't think it got an answer?

[Oblivion]

I hate cops but I also hate violence so now I'm sad but that was spicy ty

It's a weird time in my life too. I don't think I'm nearly as convincing or insightful as I am in a random game. You do feel like the nth extreme of that, I don't think I've observed any original thoughts from u yet

What's your strongest or most surprising half cooked read? Throw me some words about it?

Ive said already I find Oblivion towny. Tonally I think it's town and I don't see a scum agenda in anything it's doing.

The mistake (I think it's a mistake)

in the post I quoted recently points to town. I'd almost townlock it.

Of the drafters above me I think PP is the most likely scum flip but I am not going there today.

Don't do math and cold meds, friends.

(It had the number of players at 13, not 14. It doesn't know why it thought there were 13 players.)

[Oblivion]

O Ring who is scummiest from this list:

Yessirree
Gob
Pavowski

I know it's probably in your iso yeah yea yea

It is currently attempting to evaluate those three slots, let it explain where it stands with all three now, to explain.

It admitted that it forgot Yessirree even existed in a post recently, and it has made that slot its priority to engage with next, when it has a moment. It hasn't gone back and read through their posts, so perhaps you can interact with it as it does?

Gob it wants to murder on sight every time it sees one of his posts. It has been trying to decide whether its frustration with that slot is interfering with its read on it, and has decided that yes, infact, it is more likely to scumread Gob because it is annoyed. However, it doesn't view Gob as a player that will provide any meaningful content or assistance even if they are town, and so it is less reluctant to be wrong there than other places.

Pav is a slot that it was reading town, and thought about how Dave was approaching them as a Scum/Town kind of thing. It agrees with the argument that was given to it that Pav is more likely to be scum with Dave if Dave is scum, which has made it more apprehensive of the slot because it still thinks Dave is scum, even if Dave cannot be the play today? but on individual merit, it believes Pav looks town.

As a result, its answer is currently Gob, but with space for Yessirree to be worse if it can be shown more about that slot?

[Oblivion]

Someone interact with me Bastet fell asleep on my lap and I can't move and I'm done with my marvel snap quests today

It would be happy to interact with you, if you have the time. It needs to delve into Yessiree.

[Oblivion]

I'm not sure yessiree has done enough to be very discernible but i asked anyway

Let it examine, and then return to you with its understanding.

[Oblivion]

Is gob low draft

Gob is 5th, just below Pav.

[Oblivion]

Need a summary of the game so far. 65 pages is too much to read.

No one is going to do this for you. If you cannot engage with this game, it has been plenty of time to read some things, even if you cannot read everything. It is tired of hearing the same 3 lines from you. Do something, engage with something, or it's just going to kill you.

[Oblivion]

Someone give a summary, not going to read all 17 pages.

someone summarize all 19 pages to me

I'll not be able to post till tomorrow. Haven't been able to read anything either. I'll see if I can read and post within tomorrow, otherwise I'll ask for a replacement.

Need a summary of the game so far. 65 pages is too much to read.

It has considerable patience, but when you have 8 total posts in your isolation, and this comprises half of them, it has a problem. Among the other 4, at least two appear to be jokes, and the other two looks like half hearted attempts at engagement but that don't appear to do much of anything.

[Oblivion]

It is becoming a little frustrated with this game because most of the slots it wishes to kill are too high in draft to kill and then you have slots like NotAScum that it basically can't even begin to identify because they barely try.

[Oblivion]

It is becoming a little frustrated with this game because most of the slots it wishes to kill are too high in draft to kill and then you have slots like NotAScum that it basically can't even begin to identify because they barely try.

are u townreading Gob

No.

[Oblivion]

Gob and Dave are apparently too high in the draft to kill.

[Oblivion]

It is not being helpful. It gets frustrated too easily and it needs to go.

VOTE: Oblivion

So your goal, rather than attempting to engage with the game, was to wait until a player became fed up with your constant requests that someone do your work for you, then attempt this?

[Oblivion]

So your goal, rather than attempting to engage with the game, was to wait until a player became fed up with your constant requests that someone do your work for you, then attempt this?

I think only a scum would benefit by being totally unhelpful. They don't need to solve the game nor help anyone solve the game either.

And in your opinion, telling you to read the game or it will vote you for attempting to dodge having opinions or reads is not trying to solve?

Is that the hill you are seeking to die on? That your laziness is somehow something that any town player would leap to assist you with? So then what of those players who have ignored you?

[Oblivion]

Further, in what way would it giving you it's biased opinion of the events of the game somehow assist you in understanding those events? It can't help but be biased, it sees the thread through its own eyes.

You aren't asking for help, you are asking to be spoonfed takes that you can parrot and call your own. You are asking to be given interaction rather than using your own brain to engage and decide how you feel. It can't judge you based on that. It can't create a model of your mind from someone else's thoughts.

[Oblivion]

Pavowski [3]: Brian Skies,

gob

, Jake The Wolfie

Bad wagon

How so?

not townreading anyone on it

[Oblivion]

Whats so bad about Brian?

What are u townreading brian for

again im saying i don't townread the players in the group.

The way he gave a readslist so early doesnt seem like scum. Scum has no reason to list out their associatives like that so early.

Anyway whats so bad about Brian?

[Oblivion]

Can you answer the discrepancy between your vote and your Stance, Gob?

[Oblivion]

im stupid, what contradiction did Gob make now?

He isn't voting Brian, he is voting Pavowski.
Did pavowski make early reads list that i missed

Er.

No, I'm the stupid one. I thought it said Brian. It is on phone.

[Oblivion]

Apologies, it thought Gob was calling Brian town while voting Brian.

[Oblivion]

Dann, it interacted with Dunn (wow, convenient for remembering...) about why Dunn felt it was town. It knows you have described why you think it is town in a few posts, but can you explain the confidence level, perhaps by delving into the posts it has made to give you that impression?

It wishes to get a sense of how you approach slots to read them, and what conclusions and thought paths led to your confidence levels.

[Oblivion]

It knows you have described why you think it is town in a few posts, but can you explain the confidence level, perhaps by delving into the posts it has made to give you that impression?

I'll do this when i have time later if you want but I'm mostly going to be going to find stuff post-hoc to justify a gut read I had on your slot

It knows that a lot of post-hoc will exist, part of the exercise is that it wants to see what you can compile when asked to do a task like this, how you do it and what points you argue are as important as the outcome themselves, because it will assist it in learning how you approach problems.

If you can find the time, it would be grateful.

[Oblivion]

local woman suspected of being alt that links to her main in the signature

hmmm

Greetings, it has seen you before when it was researching prior PYP games.

[Oblivion]

Made a really bad cube draft deck

Was gonna be 4 color but got offered an oblivion ring so I had to play oblivion ring as my only white card. Just had to

It feels honored.

[Oblivion]

Among the options, it has decided how it will vote for today.

VOTE: NotAScum

It feels it was more than fair with giving them chances to engage and prove themselves, they took a defensive stance that indicated to it that they had more interest in traps and passing along without notice than actually solving the game. It was unimpressed with the Gob vote, and while it wants nothing more than to tactical nuke Gob from the thread, it feels that this is more likely to end up being scum.

[Oblivion]

That said, it thinks that the argument for Pav and Dave being scum together is something that holds water, and still thinks Brian is town, and so if it is forced to choose between those two options, it will do Pav.

[Oblivion]

Am I trying to kill Brian because I'm scum

It doesn't think so, no. It thinks you're simply wrong, and viewing Brian's posts in a different light than it.

[Oblivion]

Infact, if it had to identify who among the people pushing for Brian are scum, it would say Gob and Dave are at the top of its list, followed by maybe Penguin. It thinks you and FB are town.

It still doesn't know what to think of Yessirree if it's being honest. It feels totally confused by how they approach the game.

[Oblivion]

Dave rested on Brian for a time, and is now on NAS. Perhaps... it should consider that a sign not to do NAS?

It isn't sure even it's willing to dive that deep into layers of If, Then, given the number of possibilities.

[Oblivion]

Even thought it is totally on the wrong track, I don't think it's worth the effort right now.

No, it agrees. It wants to focus on things that matter for today. You aren't on the table, for now, and trying to play around you being scum and voting who it thinks your partners are only has so much value before it becomes a series of ever more complicated everett branches.

No, it's decided NAS is who it wants to die today based solely on NAS' posting. It will shift to support a Pav wagon if it must, it will not vote Brian on any circumstance. Is there even anyone else on the chopping block today? Is it only those 3?

[Oblivion]

Am I trying to kill Brian because I'm scum

It doesn't think so, no. It thinks you're simply wrong, and viewing Brian's posts in a different light than it.

There was an amazing sunset today that weirdly made everything on my phone look foil

It... doesn't... oh, "different light"?

That sounds pretty, it wishes it could have seen.

[Oblivion]

It still doesn't know what to think of Yessirree if it's being honest. It feels totally confused by how they approach the game.

It give me the vibe it views things in black and white, and I'm in the grey zone. So that's fine.

It is capable of nuance, but it does tend to... how does it explain.

It builds mental models to understand others because it does not easily or naturally comprehend them without that framing? It finds them useful for predicting behaviour and analyzing intent. It thinks itself pretty good at those things, once it has that lock on.

It is having a harder time locking on to you than others, and it attributes that to not having had as much direct connection. Would you be willing to rectify this with it sometime soon?

[Oblivion]

Name one time I have ever been wrong

It believes you are wrong with Brian, beyond that it can't really show you any evidence.

Is this meant to indicate it should trust your read on Brian more than its own?

[Oblivion]

It still doesn't know what to think of Yessirree if it's being honest. It feels totally confused by how they approach the game.

It give me the vibe it views things in black and white, and I'm in the grey zone. So that's fine.

It is capable of nuance, but it does tend to... how does it explain.

It builds mental models to understand others because it does not easily or naturally comprehend them without that framing? It finds them useful for predicting behaviour and analyzing intent. It thinks itself pretty good at those things, once it has that lock on.

It is having a harder time locking on to you than others, and it attributes that to not having had as much direct connection. Would you be willing to rectify this with it sometime soon?

Sure, it has my attention

Can you explain to it your read on... any three slots you feel strongly on, give it a breakdown as if you were attempting to teach it how to come to the same conclusion as you.

[Oblivion]

Name four elements of the periodic table

Neon, Lithium, Boron, Calcium.

[Oblivion]

It has no idea why those 4 came to its mind. It thought Neon and then almost did Argon and only noble gasses, but then felt that would be distasteful and not part of the fun of the game, so it attempted to give you a series of interesting elements from within the first 20.

[Oblivion]

It is now deeply confused what May is trying to do but is is entertained by it?

[Oblivion]

It still doesn't know what to think of Yessirree if it's being honest. It feels totally confused by how they approach the game.

It give me the vibe it views things in black and white, and I'm in the grey zone. So that's fine.

It is capable of nuance, but it does tend to... how does it explain.

It builds mental models to understand others because it does not easily or naturally comprehend them without that framing? It finds them useful for predicting behaviour and analyzing intent. It thinks itself pretty good at those things, once it has that lock on.

It is having a harder time locking on to you than others, and it attributes that to not having had as much direct connection. Would you be willing to rectify this with it sometime soon?

Sure, it has my attention

Can you explain to it your read on... any three slots you feel strongly on, give it a breakdown as if you were attempting to teach it how to come to the same conclusion as you.

I don't have any strong feelings on a particular slot. My holistic take is that there are probably 2 scums in this group. I'm not sure how I can break it down for you in detail other than to say that's the lens I'm using to view the game as a whole.

davesaz 6
Ydrasse 10
Pavowski 11
gob 55

and 1 scum in this group

NotAScum 2
the worst 3
Brian Skies 3

The people not on this list are my townreads and I'm largely tuning their interactions out as noise to reduce my cognitive load.

Can you explain the reasonings that gave you the conclusions of those breakdowns, if possible?

[Oblivion]

May, may it ask a question of you that it expects would normally receive a joke response but ask you to take it entirely seriously?

[Oblivion]

I am giving you up to 3 such questions in the next 48 hours. Very serious.

Okay, I'll use all three.

Can you write a paragraph about yourself as if you were writing a eulogy? Like... what kind of person you were, what your strengths were. Obviously lean it a little towards Mafia, but in general.

Then... do the same for It and for PenguinPower. It knows you won't know it very well, and perhaps not PP, but just... act confident? Even if you're wrong, it just wants to see what you would say if put on the spot, what your understanding of it is, and same with PP.

[Oblivion]

Do you, uh, see how it might be worried about the oddness of such a question? >.>

[Oblivion]

It would like to take its time today, but it also thinks that the manner in which Gob voted was strange, and is more than willing to kill them.

[Oblivion]

It is currently not voting Gob for the sake of fear of another quick hammer, it wishes to kill Gob regardless of claim except for perhaps Cop, but imagine it's full support on that.

[Oblivion]

It is currently not voting Gob for the sake of fear of another quick hammer, it wishes to kill Gob regardless of claim except for perhaps Cop, but imagine it's full support on that.

is there something you want to do while we are stalling the wagon train

It wants to read back over how the wagon on NAS formed from a secondary wagon to the primary wagon, and where that inflection point was. It thinks it is possible to determine who is scum based on this. It also wants to see what people's takes are BEFORE Gob flips, because it thinks that will impact how it solves.

[Oblivion]

It is currently not voting Gob for the sake of fear of another quick hammer, it wishes to kill Gob regardless of claim except for perhaps Cop, but imagine it's full support on that.

There has to be at least one mafia outside of gob. Why aren't you voting to find them?

This sounds harsher than intended, its more a call to action than an accusation

Did you not pay attention on day 1? It cast one vote on day 1, for NAS. It is not a player for whom personality and pressure comes naturally. It recognizes the value of a vote but if all it can do is vote, it struggles to follow up on pressure. It prefers mental modeling, and that requires it to be somewhat neutral to mimic the mental state. As a result, it tends to... decide who it wants to kill, and vote them, as opposed to using votes as a weapon.

It understands that is perhaps a weakness in its game but it tries to use it as a strength.

[Oblivion]

It is currently not voting Gob for the sake of fear of another quick hammer, it wishes to kill Gob regardless of claim except for perhaps Cop, but imagine it's full support on that.

There has to be at least one mafia outside of gob. Why aren't you voting to find them?

This sounds harsher than intended, its more a call to action than an accusation

Did you not pay attention on day 1? It cast one vote on day 1, for NAS. It is not a player for whom personality and pressure comes naturally. It recognizes the value of a vote but if all it can do is vote, it struggles to follow up on pressure. It prefers mental modeling, and that requires it to be somewhat neutral to mimic the mental state. As a result, it tends to... decide who it wants to kill, and vote them, as opposed to using votes as a weapon.

It understands that is perhaps a weakness in its game but it tries to use it as a strength.

Best to assume I did not pay attention as a rule of thumb

Noted

Ah, that came across ruder than it intended it to. It was trying to point at it and thought it was something people would note on, not.... Apologies.

[Oblivion]

It really would prefer not to end it so quickly, but also it doesn't really know what to do with everyone else seemingly on the same page, so should it just hammer and progress the game?

[Oblivion]

It really would prefer not to end it so quickly, but also it doesn't really know what to do with everyone else seemingly on the same page, so should it just hammer and progress the game?

What else do you want to accomplish today?

It wants to gather opinions of players on topics before a flip occurs, because the difference in uninformed and informed is interesting and what players will stick to will matter. Though, with it being somewhat overwhelmingly obvious that Gob will flip it wonders if there is even a point?

[Oblivion]

It believes we should claim those roles in the order of, if they exist

Tracker/Jailkeeper

Then

Doctor/Roleblocker

If Tracker claims and there is a doctor doctor should not claim. Instead, it believes every player should proxy claim RB targets at that point instead of a claim.

If JK claim, then it believes RB should claim doctor still should not so no need to proxy this time, but it leaves doctor to protect our JK.

[Oblivion]

This is probably our best move.

[Oblivion]

But it is willing to have someone examine its logic to see whether that is accurate?

[Oblivion]

If o-ring plays two truths and a lie I can potentially clear it

Sure. It is happy to do so.

[Oblivion]

assuming only the jk, i can only see a scenario where the game goes into f6 with 3 clears, so far.

It is just making sure, are you accounting for scenarios where scum has the JK and chooses to take the no kill route regardless?

[Oblivion]

O ring answer the 2T 1L post!!

Eh? Did it miss you already did this?

[Oblivion]

Two truths and a lie:

I have a secret Mafiauniverse account named "Ruby" with multiple completed games
My girlfriend wanted to play scarlet and violet together on release weekend but I insisted on only catching and using pokemon from Ruby and Sapphire in every single part where it was allowed. She ended up doing the same but with Black and White (after she finished evolving meowscarada).
I have not left my apartment without a Mawile plushie on my person since 2022

So it is guessing this about you?

[Oblivion]

It would say the plushie one is a lie.

[Oblivion]

Was it meant to know from more than a guess?

[Oblivion]

It just felt it was likely you kept the mawile in your purse and you may have forgotten your purse at some point. It keeps a mini plushie in its bags when it goes out.

[Oblivion]

It. It doesn't understand.

[Oblivion]

What is your plushie of

It's plushie is a tiny Eevee named Jet.

[Oblivion]

I thought Pavowski might be interesting, but not really.

result crumb from n1

Is this a tracker claim?

[Oblivion]

What is your plushie of

It's plushie is a tiny Eevee named Jet.

no way. jet is a really cute eevee name.

Mmhmm! He has a whole plushie army of eeveelutions who are big sisters/brothers to him cause he is smol.

[Oblivion]

If we are tracker RB is it auto?

[Oblivion]

I love Eevee because I view it as a trans metaphor

Also if you consider the associations between designs eevee is kinda like the protagonist of gen1 yet you don't get it early

I played a radiant Eevee control deck to locals once I think it was a barely-correct alternative to the bird most people played instead. Starley? Pidgey? Whichever it was

It really likes the bird Pokemon too. Especially the sharp ones like Corviknight and Skarmory and Pidgeot

[Oblivion]

Then this is its plan.

Dave claim your tracker result from last night and we wait for counter claims that are assuredly n- wait.

[Oblivion]

It just realized scum is informed cant one of these claims not exist and allow scum to fake claim it?

[Oblivion]

I love Eevee because I view it as a trans metaphor

Also if you consider the associations between designs eevee is kinda like the protagonist of gen1 yet you don't get it early

I played a radiant Eevee control deck to locals once I think it was a barely-correct alternative to the bird most people played instead. Starley? Pidgey? Whichever it was

i was really happy to see one of the let's go games being eevee-flavoured. it always confounded me that the other originally conceived mascot was like, was it jigglypuff? that still feels like a fever dream. eevee is clearly one of the best concepts out of gen 1.

It's eevee plushie Jet was based on it naming its cute Eevee in that game Jet. It got given a male eevee which is why the Eevee is male but it also put flowers on the eevee in designing it so it thinks it is kinda a non binary gender fluid eevee. It can decide it's gender when it evolves.

[Oblivion]

It just realized scum is informed cant one of these claims not exist and allow scum to fake claim it?

given scum have to pretend to be towny, the threat of a clearing role with 1 scum alive is equally valuable to the existence of a clearing role.

sorry, this concept is really difficult to explain. basically scum can't fuck around bc they get caught immediately.

Not if Tracker is the one fucking around right? If scum can kill the RB or if we have a doctor the tracker can provide clears and then instead kill those clears night after night or there can be no kill in a tracker doctor world.

[Oblivion]

If it is understanding things correctly tracker + doctor and no kill is not auto and tracker or doctor can be lying.

[Oblivion]

Unless two players claim to draft a role at which point it is confirmed to exist, actually.

[Oblivion]

If it got an extra PM it should follow the link and go to the bottom.
If it didn't get an extra PM I'll be very interested to hear that.

... Oh. OH.

[Oblivion]

y'all please be very careful talking about provable aspects of private mod communications

It got neighbourized last night.

[Oblivion]

It missed the PM and would have continued to miss it without that nudge it thinks.

[Oblivion]

It thinks tracker should claim n2 target now.

[Oblivion]

It wonders if a team with NAS and Gob could even coordinate?

[Oblivion]

Ehh fuck it im not waiting on worstie to claim.

I am doctor

So all you have to do is protect Dave tonight and we should have auto either by way of:

1) Dave clearing 1 extra person while you die, making it Dave, Pav, Jake, Brian + one other vs 4 uncleared, which is guaranteed.
2) You being fake, but if Dave ever dies before you, you die and if Dave doesn't die he ends the game for town.
3) If scum choose to no kill, we kill everyone on the list of Oblivion, The Worst, Yessiree, May, Dann and leave only Dave, Pav, Jake, Brian, You. Dave then gets to track you, and if you no kill it's still 5 alive, leaving kill you + kill Dave and it ends. If you kill Dave, see option 2.
4) Dave being fake, which means when you die and dave makes a clear, if Dave doesn't die the night after you die he gives a second clear and then we kill Dave because we still have enough clears at that point.

Is this all correct, is it missing any scenarios?

[Oblivion]

Ehh fuck it im not waiting on worstie to claim.

I am doctor

So all you have to do is protect Dave tonight and we should have auto either by way of:

1) Dave clearing 1 extra person while you die, making it Dave, Pav, Jake, Brian + one other vs 4 uncleared, which is guaranteed.
2) You being fake, but if Dave ever dies before you, you die and if Dave doesn't die he ends the game for town.
3) If scum choose to no kill, we kill everyone on the list of Oblivion, The Worst, Yessiree, May, Dann and leave only Dave, Pav, Jake, Brian, You. Dave then gets to track you, and if you no kill it's still 5 alive, leaving kill you + kill Dave and it ends. If you kill Dave, see option 2.
4) Dave being fake, which means when you die and dave makes a clear, if Dave doesn't die the night after you die he gives a second clear and then we kill Dave because we still have enough clears at that point.

Is this all correct, is it missing any scenarios?

Is this correct? Has it missed anything?

[Oblivion]

Okay, understood.

It is Night 3 Vig.

Vote: Oblivion

[Oblivion]

Good game, well played. It really tried to find a path, but if all the paths are closed, there's no point in prolonging it for you.

[Oblivion]

It knows it wouldn't have died for quite a while, it's last hope was that Pav or Brian were Doctor specifically so it could kill them, not have more than 4 clears and win in a 4 player ELO.

[Oblivion]

It really wishes its scumteam hadn't decided to take PGO over One Shot Vig like it wanted, it would have shot June and Penguin Night 1. It also wishes its scumbuddy hadn't quick hammered its other scumbuddy without a claim, one shot watcher probably saves NAS that day.

It also also wishes Gob hadn't done that hammer because it meant it could never use its ability.

[Oblivion]

Okay, understood.

It is Night 3 Vig.

Vote: Oblivion

please vote someone else and shoot one of the non-cleared

It is flattered you thought it was town even through that.

[Oblivion]

It really thinks it could have endgamed this if it has one more bit of space. One extra kill (one shot vig or a town elim on day 1 or 2, so it could N3 vig) or just, not picking informed and getting back "All roles have been claimed" that was difficult. We went for a kill heavy build and all took abilities and couldn't use any of them.

[Oblivion]

It is sad that it had to fool May, as well.

[Oblivion]

It strongly considered letting this day play out so it could possibly see if FB would choose not to protect dave but... it has more faith in you than that it thinks.

[Oblivion]

it doesn't help when both ur teammates get sacked by night 2

Well, it.... really didn't want to bus either of them but NAS wasn't looking to interact and it was hoping the way it pressured him a claim from him would spare him for a day and we'd get Pav instead?

[Oblivion]

Let's flip and move forwards

Come, finish it, friend.

[Oblivion]

my night actions btw were:

n1 penguin n2 dannflor

It was going to kill Penguin night 1, but it was afraid of One Shot Watcher being given to a backup. It felt Penguin would be watched. It needed to perform the kill itself because Gob was arming PGO.

[Oblivion]

what was the reason behind the june/ydra kill

It felt that June had cop equity, as did Penguin. They were also in the slot for UB which it was afraid of with 1 shot watcher. It felt the best shot was June because of this.

[Oblivion]

It really tried. There's no escaping some problems.

[Oblivion]

For what it is worth,

The Scum Team Concedes

[Oblivion]

Wow I was bamboozled and then wrote weird wall for mafia?!?!

It is really sorry, aha.

[Oblivion]

Pgo instead of osv is kinda bad

That is, infact, what it said but it wasn't its call.

[Oblivion]

I want another chance one day

Help it find another game with you? It would like to play again, but its current other game is... not filling.

[Oblivion]

i think multitasking is better tbh

It is really a fan of informed's ability to have fake claims and knowledge about the setup, it's only really bad if say, both of your parners die early.

[Oblivion]

I also strongly prefer multitasking. I think maybe I'd pick informed if I was with a team of stronger scum players than I am, but the utility of nerfing mechanical breaks in pypx/y is huge.

Perhaps it should have considered that when it saw its team but.... it didn't really know?

[Oblivion]

I also strongly prefer multitasking. I think maybe I'd pick informed if I was with a team of stronger scum players than I am, but the utility of nerfing mechanical breaks in pypx/y is huge.

Perhaps it should have considered that when it saw its team but.... it didn't really know?

oh, definitely. I was the, er, I'd feel egotistical to call myself the co-designer of this set-up, but talked with SS a lot while he was visualising this take on PYPX/Y. it's been bouncing around in my mind for a long time.

this is an extremely overwhelming set-up to roll scum in, particularly for its first scumgame. I wanna roll scum w it next time please

It made a suggested draft of:

Gob- OSV
Oblivion -N3V
NAS- OSW

With the idea of using OSW to find power roles, shoot twice night 1 in the tops to remove Cop instantly then use it as our anchor and shoot twice with N3V such that by day 4 there would be 8 players dead, leaving us with 6, which could possibly be 4-2 and thus perpetual ELO, but even if not, not too many clears. That was its strategy.

[Oblivion]

The fact you got all of those role pairings with your draft standing is pretty impressive.

It studied prior selections patterns and saw our placements and decided it was a decent strategy. It felt Tracker, Cop, Universal Backup would all fall into the top 4. It has noticed Watcher falls very far, as does Night 3 Vig. It felt that Gob at 5 was likely to hit OSV too.

[Oblivion]

and yes, 5th 10th 12th was a.... bad outcome, it thinks aha.

[Oblivion]

I also strongly prefer multitasking. I think maybe I'd pick informed if I was with a team of stronger scum players than I am, but the utility of nerfing mechanical breaks in pypx/y is huge.

Perhaps it should have considered that when it saw its team but.... it didn't really know?

oh, definitely. I was the, er, I'd feel egotistical to call myself the co-designer of this set-up, but talked with SS a lot while he was visualising this take on PYPX/Y. it's been bouncing around in my mind for a long time.

this is an extremely overwhelming set-up to roll scum in, particularly for its first scumgame. I wanna roll scum w it next time please

It made a suggested draft of:

Gob- OSV
Oblivion -N3V
NAS- OSW

With the idea of using OSW to find power roles, shoot twice night 1 in the tops to remove Cop instantly then use it as our anchor and shoot twice with N3V such that by day 4 there would be 8 players dead, leaving us with 6, which could possibly be 4-2 and thus perpetual ELO, but even if not, not too many clears. That was its strategy.

This is a really good holistic strategy for this set-up. You get a lot of valuable townies dead.

It may run into issues where scum are caught via the draft (e.g. the one shot vig is confirmed scum immediately on n1; if someone directly under it in the draft chose 1sv & missed, for example, you're pretty much confirmed to be that role, etc.).

It's also a bit of a swingy strategy, like we saw in this set-up losing a member earlier can be devastating when the team strategy really wants all 3 members to be alive to use their roles

but I'm old and jaded and unambitious. I really admire the ambition of its strategy.

That is why it took informed! It felt like it could use the known unselected role as a way to fake claim safely, since players under draft Rolecop and Draft cop. It felt that the only player who needed to live was it. It needed town elimination day 1, and then gob and NAS' roles were completed. If that happened, all it needed to avoid was Day 2 Day 3 scum eliminations which.... perhaps that is a bit off. Perhaps it should have taken multi tasking for that sake.

[Oblivion]

Good point! Honestly, very little could've prepared for the b2b scum lims, and just the pure luck of penguin + Dave both hitting really strong clear targets.

Eh, doesn't feel like Luck. Brian is a great cop target at a low spot in the draft and who is very eliminatable. Pav was similarly eliminatable but also possible to have a role, so there's possible ways to clear Pav even without 2 scum being dead, or catch him in the act. Those were fantastic target selections.

[Oblivion]

Truthfully, even if it felt that it was within range to be able to win this game, town outplayed scum massively and deserve this team win.