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[Thomith]

VOTE: Snow

[Thomith]

folks on speedwagon:gypyx,thomith,titus,geraintm,wisp
mhm

Do you think the speed wagon is scummy?

[Thomith]

folks on speedwagon:gypyx,thomith,titus,geraintm,wisp
mhm

Do you think the speed wagon is scummy?

i think atleast 1 scum is hiding there

To be fair mathematically that is probably true. I know there is likely not enough to go on right now, but in a few (irl) days, I'd like to know who you think is most likely if that's okay?

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:

Let's not actually do this lmao

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:

Let's not actually do this lmao

i'm very much dissapointed in you Thomith

Trust me I'm disappointed in myself too lol.

Of course it would have been funny if this had actually gone through, but I got cold feet

With that being said, I do want to get some information out of Day 1 that a quick lim probably doesn't get us.

Naerys is probably right that there is a decent chance that the scum might have been hiding on the wagon as it was growing

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:

Let's not actually do this lmao

i'm very much dissapointed in you Thomith

Not as disappointed as it is in all of you. Do you truly think this is an acceptable method to find scum? There are members here whose votes it understands. For whom it believes there is merit and a town mental model for approaching a wagon in this manner. It does not make it less disappointed in the very existence of this wagon.

Whose votes do you think are more likely to be town motivated?

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:

Let's not actually do this lmao

i'm very much dissapointed in you Thomith

Not as disappointed as it is in all of you. Do you truly think this is an acceptable method to find scum? There are members here whose votes it understands. For whom it believes there is merit and a town mental model for approaching a wagon in this manner. It does not make it less disappointed in the very existence of this wagon.

Whose votes do you think are more likely to be town motivated?

VOTE: Snow

VLA until Monday like in signups

VOTE: Snow

VOTE: snow

These ones, it thinks.

Can you elaborate please?
Most people voted without a reason, why are those votes more townie?

[Thomith]

Okay cool.

The initial vibe from Oblivions reaction to the E-1 made me think it could be overreacting as scum to gain town points by pointing out something that is likely to be seen as potentially anti town.
The way it responded to questioning though, makes me want to townread it for now.

[Thomith]

It feels like Oblivion is genuinely trying to sort.

[Thomith]

Is this real? lol Day 1 is silly

In contrast, I'm finding myself disliking this reaction.

VOTE: KayJayQueue

Do you have any opinions on the speed wagon? Any votes you find weirder than the others?

[Thomith]

Is this real? lol Day 1 is silly

In contrast, I'm finding myself disliking this reaction.

VOTE: KayJayQueue

Do you have any opinions on the speed wagon? Any votes you find weirder than the others?

I find it crazy that it was that close to an elimination. I have done the random vote at the very beginning before but I’m much more tentative to make a real vote initially until I get a better feeling so I can’t tell if the speed voting is just for fun or is something that I’ll get used to with more games. I don’t know how to read the people that jumped on. I can say I don’t think it was bad from the first vote or maybe the second but I don’t know what jumping on is usually indicative, alignment wise. Or how to tell the 3-7 votes apart.

What do you think of Oblivions reaction to the wagon?

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:

Let's not actually do this lmao

i'm very much dissapointed in you Thomith

Not as disappointed as it is in all of you. Do you truly think this is an acceptable method to find scum? There are members here whose votes it understands. For whom it believes there is merit and a town mental model for approaching a wagon in this manner. It does not make it less disappointed in the very existence of this wagon.

Whose votes do you think are more likely to be town motivated?

VOTE: Snow

VLA until Monday like in signups

VOTE: Snow

VOTE: snow

These ones, it thinks.

i dont agree with this

Why not?

[Thomith]

Naerys, what are you thinking about Gypyx starting it?

well, the vote itself felt like RVS, but her later reactions like " i am disappointed in you" etc felt like attempt to manipulate
could be scummy tbh

I feel like she was just memeing.
Her posting after the fact seem to be genuinely trying to sort people, and do feel like her point about people finding it harder to fake reactions early is also kind of valid.

[Thomith]

VOTE: Wisp

Why?

[Thomith]

VOTE: Wisp

Why?

Why not?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: JacksonVirgo

[Thomith]

"Wagon bad, WTF everyone!" is such an easy and predictable response that I believe that at least one off-wagon scum made it. (One of Naerys, Kay, Oblivion)

I dont like the way you are mocking our response to the speedwagon.

Ok, I'll rephrase that bullet point:

• The notion that that speedwagon is harmful for the town is both 1. easy to come up with; and 2. would feel natural coming from anyone off the speedwagon. Therefore, it is likery that at least one off-wagon scum would bring it forth to appeal to likeminded townies.

Is this better?

What is the point of this post?

[Thomith]

Hu Tao and Wisp town. Dave and Naerys sus.

Dave sus bc whiteknight. Naerys likely fake suspicion.

Titus may be sus

RN is sus too right now. Why so much sus.

I still think Dave is worst.

VOTE: Dave

This doesn't feel like the town Davey I'm used to.

Could you elaborate on all of these please Hu Tao?

[Thomith]

But I think Dave is more different

Can you point to something specific that feels different, only 8 pages in?

It's nothing specific. Just past games I could feel you were town, this game so far I don't.

How early could you tell before?

[Thomith]

But I think Dave is more different

Can you point to something specific that feels different, only 8 pages in?

It's nothing specific. Just past games I could feel you were town, this game so far I don't.

How early could you tell before?

Have I not done the same thing to you? So why ask?

You have, but usually it takes a fair bit longer than this?

[Thomith]

Hm actually in hindsight in Classic Commercials it may have been as early as this.

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Willow

[Thomith]

VOTE: Naerys

Why is Naerys scum?

[Thomith]

what did willow do to get so many votes?

Beats me.

If not you, who should we vote instead?

[Thomith]

If not me, you should vote Naerys.

VOTE: Naerys

Why is Naerys scum?

[Thomith]

You’re annoying

+1

[Thomith]

I still think one of Naerys, Kay and Oblivion is scum for their response to the Snow wagon. And Naerys is the only one of those three who commented on it (when she complained about my mocking tone).

I tried to pick a fight with Naerys, but unfortunately she declined to give me one.

Bold of you to accuse 3 people that aren’t currently voting for you when you only need 3 more votes to get hammered. Thats fun, I like it.

Not sure how much I like this post

[Thomith]

No comment.

I feel like this post comes from either frustrated scum or potentially frustrated newtown, but I can't really tell which currently. The game kind of stalling makes me concerned this wagon could just be incorrect, but I guess that could just be due to peoples availability this early.

No comment.

Do atleast try to make a case on me, if you genuinely think i am scum.

Didn't mention this yesterday but this post also gave me off vibes too.

Keeping an eye on Naerys/Kay for now, mainly because these posts ping me as off, but can't hugely put my finger on why at the moment.

[Thomith]

I still think one of Naerys, Kay and Oblivion is scum for their response to the Snow wagon. And Naerys is the only one of those three who commented on it (when she complained about my mocking tone).

I tried to pick a fight with Naerys, but unfortunately she declined to give me one.

Bold of you to accuse 3 people that aren’t currently voting for you when you only need 3 more votes to get hammered. Thats fun, I like it.

Not sure how much I like this post

Because?

It feels like posting to look like you are present, without really adding much? I feel like there is a world where this comes from scum trying to look like they are contributing through commenting on things, when those comments don't necessarily progress anywhere.

To be fair though, that could be saying more about the current game state than your alignment.

[Thomith]

folks on speedwagon:gypyx,thomith,titus,geraintm,wisp
mhm

Do you think the speed wagon is scummy?

i think atleast 1 scum is hiding there

To be fair mathematically that is probably true. I know there is likely not enough to go on right now, but in a few (irl) days, I'd like to know who you think is most likely if that's okay?

Sure

Any further thoughts on this yet?

[Thomith]

Didn't mention this yesterday but this post also gave me off vibes too.

Keeping an eye on Naerys/Kay for now, mainly because these posts ping me as off, but can't hugely put my finger on why at the moment.

This is how i play as town. People geep repeatingly SR for similiar stuff so i might just change my style of playing completely,lol

I admittedly struggle to read you day 1, which is why i haven't committed further than "I find these posts weird and want to point them out"

[Thomith]

I still think one of Naerys, Kay and Oblivion is scum for their response to the Snow wagon. And Naerys is the only one of those three who commented on it (when she complained about my mocking tone).

I tried to pick a fight with Naerys, but unfortunately she declined to give me one.

Bold of you to accuse 3 people that aren’t currently voting for you when you only need 3 more votes to get hammered. Thats fun, I like it.

Not sure how much I like this post

Because?

It feels like posting to look like you are present, without really adding much? I feel like there is a world where this comes from scum trying to look like they are contributing through commenting on things, when those comments don't necessarily progress anywhere.

To be fair though, that could be saying more about the current game state than your alignment.

I do agree that it's digging very deep for something that's a bit far fetched

As in what I'm saying seems far fetched?

[Thomith]

If you had a button to eliminate any player this second without ending the day, and they would flip, who would you choose?

Snow because I think it gives us the most information because of the speed wagon that happened at the start of the day, and helps us begin to solve based on that.

[Thomith]

People trying really hard to generation content.

Almost like we are trying to gather information to advance the gamestate.

[Thomith]

Yeah, but it isn't useful. It is the ekuivalent of my daughter asking me if I would prefer to be a flower or a tree.

I think the question asked is actually pretty good at figuring out what people's mindsets are currently, which, while maybe not immediately useful, may become more useful once we do have flips.

[Thomith]

I think the question was busywork. Firstly the question is just overlying blegh, I don’t agree with Thom but also Oblivion just dipped immediately after wanting a consistent back and forth.

Do you think it being busywork is alignment indicative?

[Thomith]

Bloop

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:

[Thomith]

VOTE: Naerys

[Thomith]

VOTE: Naerys

Why?

The vibes I'm getting from 236 are weird enough that even after taking into account I do struggle to read you day 1, I don't think I can ignore it, so want to explore this option right now.

I also don't like how the game kind of went stagnant after the Willow/Dave wagons grew, and it makes me wonder if scum were just letting the game narrative stay that way, and so both wagons could just be wrong, which is why I'm not that interested in either wagon right now.

[Thomith]

also kinda dont like Penguin´s position on Wisp,

why not?

There is something icky about how Thomith and you voted for Wisp one after another.

Do you think that makes us potentially scum together?

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:

That Naerys wagon makes no sense to me.

How hard did you look at the vote reasons? Are they any more or less valid than typical for d1?
Also how does the comment relate to the unvote?

Well from what I saw, the reasons that people were sussing/voting her were things that I did as well. So if I agreed with the vote it would be like agreeing that I was in the same boat. Obviously, I don't agree with that assessment.

The unvote doesn't really relate but I didn't feel like making 2 posts. I unvoted to be able to add a vote to a someone that was not Naerys but I haven't felt strongly enough to do so. My gut says Will'O but I also have a couple other people I am considering. Just trying to gather info at this stage.

The difference that I saw is you seem to he attempting to solve more generally, while it appears as if Naerys is focusing on the people that are voting her almost completely.

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:

That Naerys wagon makes no sense to me.

How hard did you look at the vote reasons? Are they any more or less valid than typical for d1?
Also how does the comment relate to the unvote?

Well from what I saw, the reasons that people were sussing/voting her were things that I did as well. So if I agreed with the vote it would be like agreeing that I was in the same boat. Obviously, I don't agree with that assessment.

The unvote doesn't really relate but I didn't feel like making 2 posts. I unvoted to be able to add a vote to a someone that was not Naerys but I haven't felt strongly enough to do so. My gut says Will'O but I also have a couple other people I am considering. Just trying to gather info at this stage.

The difference that I saw is you seem to he attempting to solve more generally, while it appears as if Naerys is focusing on the people that are voting her almost completely.

This is a recent development to be fair, Naerys did seem to be trying to solve based on the Snow wagon early, but more recently has been focusing mostly on people voting her unless prompted.

[Thomith]

@Willow why do you think Naerys is scum?

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:
Want to reassess.

[Thomith]

Almost every game i basically get punished for trying, so idc anymore

This feels genuine to me

[Thomith]

So true king

The people that unvoted Dave, can I know why?

My last vote was my Random vote from thr start of thr game

Why am I scum?

Indeed, I too find that in the realm of wagon dynamics, also known as wagonomics, nestled snugly within the town/scum-plane curvature of said wagon's interior, lies a peculiar point dubbed "Point PP3" or the PenguinPoint. This enigmatic locus defies conventional wagon analysis, oscillating between states of scum-like ambiguity and town-like absurdity. Its coordinates, expressed purely in the language of mathematics, would be as follows: (π^2 + √5, 2.71828...).

It is here, within the confines of Point PP3, the laws of wagonomics intertwine with the calculus of imagination, yielding conclusions that dance in the mists of uncertainty. It has been said that only the most audacious of waggoners dare venture close, for at this singular spot, the very fabric of rationality frays into nonsense, where town and scum lose their meaning, and the imaginary alignment frolics merrily with its real counterparts. Truly, Point PP3 stands as a testament to the profound absurdity that lurks beneath the veneer of wagonomics.

I cant tell if its satire or not.

Do any of you suspect someone at the moment?
If so, who?

[Thomith]

I still think one of Naerys, Kay and Oblivion is scum for their response to the Snow wagon. And Naerys is the only one of those three who commented on it (when she complained about my mocking tone).

I tried to pick a fight with Naerys, but unfortunately she declined to give me one.

Do you think Naerys declining to "pick a fight" with you is alignment indicative?

[Thomith]

I still think one of Naerys, Kay and Oblivion is scum for their response to the Snow wagon. And Naerys is the only one of those three who commented on it (when she complained about my mocking tone).

I tried to pick a fight with Naerys, but unfortunately she declined to give me one.

Do you think Naerys declining to "pick a fight" with you is alignment indicative?

No. She would be a lot easier to read if she did, that's why it's unfortunate.

Why do you think she is scum then?

[Thomith]

Gera why ignore my question?

Pinging to say I think you also missed mine

[Thomith]

Gera why ignore my question?

Pinging to say I think you also missed mine

Where? Can you post it again

So true king

The people that unvoted Dave, can I know why?

My last vote was my Random vote from thr start of thr game

Why am I scum?

Indeed, I too find that in the realm of wagon dynamics, also known as wagonomics, nestled snugly within the town/scum-plane curvature of said wagon's interior, lies a peculiar point dubbed "Point PP3" or the PenguinPoint. This enigmatic locus defies conventional wagon analysis, oscillating between states of scum-like ambiguity and town-like absurdity. Its coordinates, expressed purely in the language of mathematics, would be as follows: (π^2 + √5, 2.71828...).

It is here, within the confines of Point PP3, the laws of wagonomics intertwine with the calculus of imagination, yielding conclusions that dance in the mists of uncertainty. It has been said that only the most audacious of waggoners dare venture close, for at this singular spot, the very fabric of rationality frays into nonsense, where town and scum lose their meaning, and the imaginary alignment frolics merrily with its real counterparts. Truly, Point PP3 stands as a testament to the profound absurdity that lurks beneath the veneer of wagonomics.

I cant tell if its satire or not.

Do any of you suspect someone at the moment?
If so, who?

[Thomith]

Gera why ignore my question?

Pinging to say I think you also missed mine

i didn't?
i went back and checked, and you quoted me in a huge nested post but i didn't see anything directed at me?

I was pinging Hu Tao to tell them that they missed one of my questions, not you

[Thomith]

Questions from Gypyx and geraintm make sense.
I do not rule out possibility that Wisp is scum who tries to compromise three town players (Kay - Oblivion - Naerys).
But what worries me most of all here is that Naerys is refusing to respond to questions about her thinking and its reasons.

I will say in a recent completed game as Town Naerys refused to answer my questions so we yeeted her. She's done this as Town.

Wasn't sure if I wanted to outright say this, because ew meta, gross, but I can second this experience.

It's enough that I don't think I want to Lim Naerys today.

[Thomith]

With this post, I'll finally surrender the inactivity throne to biancospino.

Do you have any suspicions?

[Thomith]

Do you have any suspicions?

No

Why are you voting Hu Tao?

[Thomith]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

*poke*

[Thomith]

I'm not super happy with the amount of people not wanting to commit to any reads atm, but got to think about what that means for each of them right now.

[Thomith]

I'm not super happy with the amount of people not wanting to commit to any reads atm, but got to think about what that means for each of them right now.

i'm not super happy with the amount of people not wanting to lay down a vote atm

Since we're throwing subtle shade, do you think my lack of vote until recently makes me scum?

[Thomith]

I feel like RN and Oblivion have been absent from the game and not just “not voting” so really it was me and Thomith that Penguin had the issue with but I don’t really see why it’s a problem. I explained when I unvoted that I wanted to figure out the best option that wasn’t Naerys since I didn’t believe in that wagon. Unfortunately, the game hasn’t moved much so I didn’t get much info on where to place my vote.

no - it was, as i said, everyone not voting.

voting = doing something meaningful

words = saying a bunch of stuff that could or could not be meaningful

Do you scum read the people that were not voting?

[Thomith]

Do you scum read the people that were not voting?

Did I say I did?

No, but you are stating distaste for not voting, without giving further information on peoples alignments based on this distaste.
Is your distaste based on you thinking voting is too valuable not to be doing, or do you find not voting alignment indicative?

[Thomith]

i've been pretty clear at this point why i think voting is important

I agree, but now I'm directly asking you for you think it's alignment indicative from the people that are not/we're not voting.

[Thomith]

I agree, but now I'm directly asking you for you think it's alignment indicative from the people that are not/we're not voting.

Not in isolation, no.

Okay, of the four people I'm assuming you were talking about (Me/Kay/Oblivion/Random Nurse), have we done anything in conjunction with this that could help you read us either way?

[Thomith]

buddy - i want people to vote becuase it creates objective information to look back on once there are flips. this is a stance that i am well known for taking. there's nothing more to it than that.

I get that, and do agree that that is useful once we get flips, but I think getting peoples stances on other players is also just as useful, which is why I was pushing to get your reads on the people you were referencing here.

[Thomith]

but I think getting peoples stances on other players is also just as useful

disagree - it's easier to explain away words (since they don't have an actual objective impact) than votes.

I agree if people aren't outright making opinions on people's alignments with what they are saying, but thunk hard stances like "I scum read this/town read that" can't just be "explained away" just like that?

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: davesaz

[Thomith]

I definitely want to hear more from Jackson before the day ends.

[Thomith]

I wouldn't be opposed to a NotAScum wagon here either I don't think.

This feels like a PoE game for me right now.
I pretty confidently TR Gypyx and Naerys based on the formers solving and the latter's reactions to pressure.

I tentatively TR Hu Tao, at least enough to not want her executed today.
I think I TR Oblivion due to the points I made early game of her efforts to solve based off the Snow wagon.

[Thomith]

I wouldn't be opposed to a NotAScum wagon here either I don't think.

This feels like a PoE game for me right now.
I pretty confidently TR Gypyx and Naerys based on the formers solving and the latter's reactions to pressure.

I tentatively TR Hu Tao, at least enough to not want her executed today.
I think I TR Oblivion due to the points I made early game of her efforts to solve based off the Snow wagon.

its* when referring to Oblivion, apologies.

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NAS

[Thomith]

Why the sudden 3-vote shift for NAS?

People wanted to vote NAS but didn't think anyone else was on board, when it was brought up and became clear there were people that were on board, we voted.

[Thomith]

Why the sudden 3-vote shift for NAS?

People wanted to vote NAS but didn't think anyone else was on board, when it was brought up and became clear there were people that were on board, we voted.

OK but WHY did you vote?

Just because others did?

VOTE: Thomith

Maybe you should read and see I suggested it first?

[Thomith]

Why the sudden 3-vote shift for NAS?

People wanted to vote NAS but didn't think anyone else was on board, when it was brought up and became clear there were people that were on board, we voted.

OK but WHY did you vote?

Just because others did?

VOTE: Thomith

Maybe you should read and see I suggested it first?

I'm tired and grouchy so sorry for snapping here.
Nobody mentioned NAS really before other than Kay in passing, but when I thought about it yesterday, I've been seeing no real attempt to solve in his posting, and he was largely under the radar. I made a comment about being open to wagoning him because of this to gauge interest, to see of there was any, and when it became clear there was, I voted.

We getting towards EOD so swapping to a new wagon when it likely won't lead anywhere likely isn't helpful, so I wouldn't have voted if nobody really was feeling it.

[Thomith]

Actually I do also remember someone (I think Gera? Might have been dave) say NAS did this before as scum, which added to this a little bit too.

[Thomith]

I'm not sure how much I like directing Vigs publicly

[Thomith]

If you don't like it then why don't you vote me? Seems like posturing.

Because I don't think this makes you scum?

Also posturing how?

[Thomith]

NaS gives 0 info going into the night for night actions regardless of his alignment.

Not even based on how the wagon grew?

[Thomith]

If you don't like it then why don't you vote me? Seems like posturing.

Because I don't think this makes you scum?

Also posturing how?

I like to use random buzz words to sound smart

I realise in hindsight on this site now, saying you don't like something usually means you scumread it.

I'll rephrase then, I don't think we should be directing PR actions publicly.

[Thomith]

If you don't like it then why don't you vote me? Seems like posturing.

Because I don't think this makes you scum?

Also posturing how?

I like to use random buzz words to sound smart

I realise in hindsight on this site now, saying you don't like something usually means you scumread it.

I'll rephrase then, I don't think we should be directing PR actions publicly.

I think that is an over blown take imo

What do you mean by overblown?

[Thomith]

I'm not sure how much I like directing Vigs publicly

In my experience, Hu directs most PR publicly, vig or otherwise. I think she just likes to make her opinion known on what people should be doing at night. I don’t hate it lol

I'm just worried that it opens the door for scum to pull a nasty gambit if they can use this direction to predict other people's actions correctly.

[Thomith]

If you don't like it then why don't you vote me? Seems like posturing.

Because I don't think this makes you scum?

Also posturing how?

I like to use random buzz words to sound smart

I realise in hindsight on this site now, saying you don't like something usually means you scumread it.

I'll rephrase then, I don't think we should be directing PR actions publicly.

I think that is an over blown take imo

What do you mean by overblown?

I like to use buzz words

How do you read me so far in this game?

[Thomith]

It has returned. Apologies for its absence. Where can it best weigh in?

NAS is the biggest wagon right now, so what are your thoughts on that wagon?
Do you think it's right? Do you have another suggestion?

[Thomith]

2 days remaining. I feel a deadline scramble coming up.

I'm a Vanilla Townie.

Uh...
Cool?

[Thomith]

To me it looks like NAS is a deliberate mis-lim wagon potentiated by Scum.

However we're also running out of time.

NAS is not the optimal lim in my opinion right now but if it means achieving a lim I will yeet him.

Why do you think this?

[Thomith]

To me it looks like NAS is a deliberate mis-lim wagon potentiated by Scum.

However we're also running out of time.

NAS is not the optimal lim in my opinion right now but if it means achieving a lim I will yeet him.

Why do you think this?

In my opinion, when it comes to general gameplay, when there's a sudden shift of like 3+ votes onto someone else with little resistance it makes me think there's Scumfuckery afoot.

But the wagon stalled after 4 votes with people actively resisting the wagon?

Who do you think we should vote for instead, believing that NAS is a mislim?

[Thomith]

To me it looks like NAS is a deliberate mis-lim wagon potentiated by Scum.

However we're also running out of time.

NAS is not the optimal lim in my opinion right now but if it means achieving a lim I will yeet him.

Why do you think this?

In my opinion, when it comes to general gameplay, when there's a sudden shift of like 3+ votes onto someone else with little resistance it makes me think there's Scumfuckery afoot.

But the wagon stalled after 4 votes with people actively resisting the wagon?

Who do you think we should vote for instead, believing that NAS is a mislim?

Well, it's also night still.

Who's actively resisting?

As for who to launch I don't know because I haven't been around recently due to getting mangled by IRL issues.

You and Hu Tao are actively resisting.
Multiple people (Gypyx/Snow/Willow/Oblivion) Have posted since and also did not join the wagon, which while it isn't active resistance, I feel as if the wagon was "facing little resistance as it is a mislim", then one of those people likely jump on the wagon, at least imo.

[Thomith]

To me it looks like NAS is a deliberate mis-lim wagon potentiated by Scum.

However we're also running out of time.

NAS is not the optimal lim in my opinion right now but if it means achieving a lim I will yeet him.

To be fair, I misread the bolded (or rather, saw the first part when skim reading and moved on, not reading the part of you saying you will compromise on it).
I don't see indifference from the four I mentioned as "not resistance", as they are scumreading other people, which in my opinion, is still (more passive) resistance of the NAS wagon.

[Thomith]

With a little over a day left would it be better to just launch the claimed VT Willow?

Maybe. I'm considering it at least.

[Thomith]

To me it looks like NAS is a deliberate mis-lim wagon potentiated by Scum.

However we're also running out of time.

NAS is not the optimal lim in my opinion right now but if it means achieving a lim I will yeet him.

To be fair, I misread the bolded (or rather, saw the first part when skim reading and moved on, not reading the part of you saying you will compromise on it).
I don't see indifference from the four I mentioned as "not resistance", as they are scumreading other people, which in my opinion, is still (more passive) resistance of the NAS wagon.

...

...

If you're Scum be extremely careful how you approach next time.

I'm not. I just misread what you said before/misremembered it.

[Thomith]

With a little over a day left would it be better to just launch the claimed VT Willow?

Maybe. I'm considering it at least.

...why exactly are you voting NAS over Willow currently?

I am voting for NAS because I believe they are more likely to be scum over Willow, especially recently because I feel like claiming VT randomly does not help scum!willow at all.

I would swap to willow purely to stop a potential PR having to out themselves if the day shifts a different way - if willow flips VT, I feel we get information for Day 2, without scum getting much information on potential PR's, I'm just not convinced that Willow flips scum any more.

[Thomith]

Why the sudden 3-vote shift for NAS?

People wanted to vote NAS but didn't think anyone else was on board, when it was brought up and became clear there were people that were on board, we voted.

Why the sudden 3-vote shift for NAS?

People wanted to vote NAS but didn't think anyone else was on board, when it was brought up and became clear there were people that were on board, we voted.

OK but WHY did you vote?

Just because others did?

VOTE: Thomith

Maybe you should read and see I suggested it first?

I'm tired and grouchy so sorry for snapping here.
Nobody mentioned NAS really before other than Kay in passing, but when I thought about it yesterday, I've been seeing no real attempt to solve in his posting, and he was largely under the radar. I made a comment about being open to wagoning him because of this to gauge interest, to see of there was any, and when it became clear there was, I voted.

We getting towards EOD so swapping to a new wagon when it likely won't lead anywhere likely isn't helpful, so I wouldn't have voted if nobody really was feeling it.

Actually I do also remember someone (I think Gera? Might have been dave) say NAS did this before as scum, which added to this a little bit too.

[Thomith]

The above is where I explain why I voted NAS, and why my vote is currently staying there.

If it doesn't appear that people are willing to eliminate NAS, I would swap to Willow, rather than somebody else to make sure we got a flip today, to avoid us potentially eliminating a potential PR, or forcing a PR to out themselves.

[Thomith]

The above is where I explain why I voted NAS, and why my vote is currently staying there.

If it doesn't appear that people are willing to eliminate NAS, I would swap to Willow, rather than somebody else to make sure we got a flip today, to avoid us potentially eliminating a potential PR, or forcing a PR to out themselves.

What exactly is your move if NAS claims something other than VT if they reach L-1?

I'm not sure to be honest.

I'm also not sure I want to answer that, to avoid guiding him on how he should act if he does end up needing to claim.

[Thomith]

Why is there PR hunting going on?

There isn't?

[Thomith]

I believe that's E-1

[Thomith]

It's E-2 because you changed your core o think anyway.

This late in the day I think it might be best to flip a VT claim to avoid running up someone new and risk outting a PR, but if people prefer dave then I'll do what is needed to secure a lim

[Thomith]

I was coming into today ready to pressure Jackson to start speaking more so I could read them better, but I guess that solves that..

[Thomith]

VOTE: Dave

[Thomith]

i dont see dave being scum so i am not voting there

Who do you see being scum?

[Thomith]

i dont see dave being scum so i am not voting there

Who do you see being scum?

You kind of answered this with your vote tbh.
Anyone else?

[Thomith]

Convince me.

Scum Naerys will reveal herself in time because she crumbles easily to pressure.

I feel like Naerys already spewed herself as town with how she reacted to pressure in Day 1?

[Thomith]

Convince me.

Scum Naerys will reveal herself in time because she crumbles easily to pressure.

I feel like Naerys already spewed herself as town with how she reacted to pressure in Day 1?

How so?

From my (limited) experience, scum!Naerys seems to try and explain away the suspicions on her, and give explanations as to why she is doing things that other people are suspecting her for, whereas town!Naerys tends to get more frustrated instead, and gets a lot more defensive, which it feels like is what happened here.

[Thomith]

I deliberately applied pressure to her because i was struggling to read her, but with how she responded to that pressure I am leaving towards her being town.

[Thomith]

Which is my experience too, and is what I feel like was beginning to happen here, which is why I town lean her.

[Thomith]

Let's give us something to talk about.

There is a neighbourhood in this game that consists of:
Myself (Thomith)
Gypyx
Snow
Titus
Dave

[Thomith]

at least - i was an asshat once and put two scum in a neighborhood so that's a possibility as well.

Said this in the hood so I'll say this here too - in a 15p, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a Traitor and a Mafia member in the hood - at the very least there was last time there was a hood in a 15p.

[Thomith]

I have no experience with neighborhoods, so I might look for a little guidance on how to approach this. Are we just playing with the understanding that at least 1 person in that group is bad?

We are playing with the

assumption

that at least 1 person in the neighbourhood is bad. There's always a chance (even though imo it's pretty small) that there is 0.

[Thomith]

titus was opposed to revealing this hood but she hasn't updated us for a while and so we (me / thomith / snow kinda) decided to shake things up

To add to this - Me/Gypyx/to an extent Snow wanted to reveal this yesterday when the game started getting a little stale, but opted not to, on the off chance somebody TMI'd the hood, per Titus' suggestion.

We didn't reveal immediately in case there was a PT Cop that we could potentially verify the existence of.

[Thomith]

tbh i'm even thinking there could be 3 scum in the hood? like i'm getting strong town vibes from thomith but the other 3 not so much, there's also something a bit off about how they don't seem too interested in sorting themselves

3 scum in the hood would be crazy , but tbh Gypyx is the only person I strongly townread in the hood.

Snow seems to be saying the right things and seeming to solve, and does seem to be wanting to progress the game state (he was also advocating for revealing the hood and his reasons felt genuine), so I don't feel that awful about him.

Still not sure about Titus/Dave.

[Thomith]

if there are five in there at the start of d1, that's a safe assumption

It doesn't think that a role that during Night 0 decides 4 other players to join them in a hood is outside Normal realms, but it is not familiar with what this website defines as "Normal" so.

I'm saying this at the risk of sounding condescending, but I promise I'm not trying to be.
If you check the Complex Normal Wiki page, it will tell you exactly what is and isn't possible. This type of ability, I am 99.9% sure, would not qualify as normal.

[Thomith]

if there are five in there at the start of d1, that's a safe assumption

It doesn't think that a role that during Night 0 decides 4 other players to join them in a hood is outside Normal realms, but it is not familiar with what this website defines as "Normal" so.

I'm saying this at the risk of sounding condescending, but I promise I'm not trying to be.
If you check the Complex Normal Wiki page, it will tell you exactly what is and isn't possible. This type of ability, I am 99.9% sure, would not qualify as normal.

Night 0 isn't a thing but you could have a night 1 simultaneous neighborizer neighborizer neighborizer neighborizer which would be a similar thing lol

Ignore me then, my brain is too small to have even comprehended the chaos that would be a simultaneous neighborizer neighborizer neighborizer neighborizer

[Thomith]

Hood
Thomith – active, says right things, but with his activity does not scumread people and has not focused on people in the hood (except early train on me). Is he really hunting scums? Has strong TR on Gypyx.
Gypyx – strong TR on Thomith. SR on Will, said that he could lim Dave. Did not vote into the hood until recently (and except early train on me).
Titus – inactive, but voted Dave-Naerys, so position close to mine.
Davesaz – inactive. Suspicious.

Outside hood
Will – initiated a conflict with Naerys, early VT claim.
Naerys – did not respond to questions.

I would focus on Thomith-Gypyx-Dave. May be Will/Naerys. Dave is sus, but I don’t like Thomith and Gypyx townreading each other and being together in trains on me, NAS and Dave.

I'm literally voting dave.

[Thomith]

I literally brought up the Neighbourhood, then have begun taking steps to solve within the hood today, so to say I'm not focusing on the hood is incorrect.

This is honestly reading like you are concerned that a town core is forming within the hood, and one half of that is suspecting you, so you are trying to break it up.

[Thomith]

I'm just going to say right now I hate "towncores/townblocks" in general. Too easy to shield experienced Scum.

The townblock is between two people, so while I understand your concern when it is on a bigger scale, I don't see how two people who strongly townread each other based on information derived during the game, based on how the other is playing has that same risk of scum hiding behind it?

[Thomith]

bloop

[Thomith]

I have a gut feeling there's one Scum among Snow/Thomith. Probably more likely among Thomith/Gypyx.

Elaborate on why you think one of us is pocketed?

...

...

...where did I say that?

I'm assuming she said that, because me and Gypyx townread each other, so if you think one of us is scum, the other has to be pocketed?

[Thomith]

it's almost as if we had a PT to coordiante revealing the hood

Couldn't just one person reveal it?

Obviously if they were lying someone else would step in.

Oh, and pardon me for noting my observation.

Do you think it's AI that we both revealed it?

[Thomith]

2.03

Votecount 2.03

davesaz (E-2): Hu Tao, Random Nurse, Thomith, PenguinPower, davesaz
Naerys (1): Little Will o' Wisp
Random Nurse (1): Naerys

Not Voting (6): Gypyx, Oblivion, Snow2697, geraintm, KayJayQueue, Titus

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-04-06 10:29:00).

Mod Notes: The combined mod ISO is here.

I think Dave & Gypyx got mixed up

I'm quoting this to ping you because I don't think there's a specific post I want to talk about, just have a question generally.

Why did you jump off the NAS wagon yesterday near the end of the day, despite seemingly being on board with that execution earlier in the day?

[Thomith]

I literally brought up the Neighbourhood, then have begun taking steps to solve within the hood today, so to say I'm not focusing on the hood is incorrect.

This is honestly reading like you are concerned that a town core is forming within the hood, and one half of that is suspecting you, so you are trying to break it up.

With two VT going away outside the hood there was no choice but to bring the hood up today.
You ignored the hood before today, again had no choice but look at it.
I don't see how a town-town core can be formed within the hood if noone looks at it. Scum-scum or scum-townie core is much easier.

I

wanted

to bring up the hood yesterday, knowing it likely meant we would sort within the hood yesterday?
When it was decided to keep the hood hidden yesterday to see if someone TMI'd it, why would it make sense to push someone in the hood, forcing the hood to be revealed, when it was discussed that the hood should be left to Day 2, to try and either catch a TMI, or verify a PT Cop - both of these being Titus' suggestions.

[Thomith]

I literally brought up the Neighbourhood, then have begun taking steps to solve within the hood today, so to say I'm not focusing on the hood is incorrect.

This is honestly reading like you are concerned that a town core is forming within the hood, and one half of that is suspecting you, so you are trying to break it up.

With two VT going away outside the hood there was no choice but to bring the hood up today.
You ignored the hood before today, again had no choice but look at it.
I don't see how a town-town core can be formed within the hood if noone looks at it. Scum-scum or scum-townie core is much easier.

I

wanted

to bring up the hood yesterday, knowing it likely meant we would sort within the hood yesterday?
When it was decided to keep the hood hidden yesterday to see if someone TMI'd it, why would it make sense to push someone in the hood, forcing the hood to be revealed, when it was discussed that the hood should be left to Day 2, to try and either catch a TMI, or verify a PT Cop - both of these being Titus' suggestions.

You can seek to put it this way, but it does not address my concerns.

Question for the town. Do we think that people were hunting scums on D1 or rather hunting PRs? Jackson suggested the latter and got killed at night.

Can you point out the posts where people were hunting PR's?

[Thomith]

Why is there PR hunting going on?

There isn't?

I responded yesterday.

[Thomith]

it's especially cause i really don't get how you could legitimately end up scumreading me / thom and townreading snow / titus

The more that happens the more I think you actually might be right about 3 scum in the hood..

[Thomith]

I'm just going to say right now I hate "towncores/townblocks" in general. Too easy to shield experienced Scum.

unless there is a mechanical reason for it, then this

Why?

Could you also explain how 2 people who strongly town read each other is "easy for scum to hide behind"?

[Thomith]

I literally brought up the Neighbourhood, then have begun taking steps to solve within the hood today, so to say I'm not focusing on the hood is incorrect.

This is honestly reading like you are concerned that a town core is forming within the hood, and one half of that is suspecting you, so you are trying to break it up.

With two VT going away outside the hood there was no choice but to bring the hood up today.
You ignored the hood before today, again had no choice but look at it.
I don't see how a town-town core can be formed within the hood if noone looks at it. Scum-scum or scum-townie core is much easier.

I

wanted

to bring up the hood yesterday, knowing it likely meant we would sort within the hood yesterday?
When it was decided to keep the hood hidden yesterday to see if someone TMI'd it, why would it make sense to push someone in the hood, forcing the hood to be revealed, when it was discussed that the hood should be left to Day 2, to try and either catch a TMI, or verify a PT Cop - both of these being Titus' suggestions.

who decided this?
i think we all are thinking there is a scum in the hood, and they would have warned their partners about its existence and this would never have happened.
is there another reason someone would have wanted it postponed for a day??

I brought up wanting to reveal it about half way through Day 1 as the game was stalling, Gypyx and Snow agreed, but I didn't want to reveal unless everyone was on board.

Titus said she wanted to see if someone TMI'd the hood in some way, (since if scum were in the hood people not in the hood would know about it), and potentially wanted to keep it a secret today in case a PT Cop Investigated one of us, and we could then verify them.

When Titus mentioned this, it was about 30ish hours to the deadline (someone can verify this, I don't remember the exact timing but we were approaching EoD), and, I at least didn't want to reveal too close to the end of Day 1, because I felt it could cause too much chaos and I was worried that may have meant we didn't reach an execution.

[Thomith]

I'm just going to say right now I hate "towncores/townblocks" in general. Too easy to shield experienced Scum.

unless there is a mechanical reason for it, then this

Why?

Could you also explain how 2 people who strongly town read each other is "easy for scum to hide behind"?

because one may not be town and have bamboozled the other. i think it is in the interest of scum to form "town blocks" and cruise through the game

Gypyx has been so obviously been trying to solve the game here and in the hood, that I doubt I'm wrong on this, but I see your point.

[Thomith]

Gypyx has been so obviously been trying to solve the game here and in the hood, that I doubt I'm wrong on this, but I see your point.

I don't see how Gypyx has been so obviously trying to solve the game.
If she thought that the hood had 2 scums and she was town with you, this left 2 scums between me-Titus-Dave. And around 2 scums elsewhere.
Then she should have focused on the hood and hunted for scums there. NAS lime and a hammer there makes zero sense in this set up.

We were at EoD, no other execution likely happens that day, unless there's utter chaos at deadline, and deadline executions are rarely good ones.

[Thomith]

the thought of the hood having 3 scum came at me around the start of day 2

My only worry are that Snow/Ranger might be the scum in the hood, and are now buddying up to Titus so she also takes the fall.

[Thomith]

Gypyx has been so obviously been trying to solve the game here and in the hood, that I doubt I'm wrong on this, but I see your point.

I don't see how Gypyx has been so obviously trying to solve the game.
If she thought that the hood had 2 scums and she was town with you, this left 2 scums between me-Titus-Dave. And around 2 scums elsewhere.
Then she should have focused on the hood and hunted for scums there. NAS lime and a hammer there makes zero sense in this set up.

the thought of the hood having 3 scum came at me around the start of day 2

Gypyx has been so obviously been trying to solve the game here and in the hood, that I doubt I'm wrong on this, but I see your point.

I don't see how Gypyx has been so obviously trying to solve the game.
If she thought that the hood had 2 scums and she was town with you, this left 2 scums between me-Titus-Dave. And around 2 scums elsewhere.
Then she should have focused on the hood and hunted for scums there. NAS lime and a hammer there makes zero sense in this set up.

We were at EoD, no other execution likely happens that day, unless there's utter chaos at deadline, and deadline executions are rarely good ones.

These posts from Gypyx and Thomith seek to speak away my point.
Gypyx thought about 2 scums in the hood 10 days ago. She strongly townread Thomith even earlier.
What did she do during these days until NAS mislim to "actively try to solve the game" and hunt 2 scums out of me-Titus-Dave?
So, my point is reinforced. And seems like Thomith and Gypyx were not trying to hunt scums.

If you suspect us, why are you voting neither of us?

[Thomith]

In what world am I the top read?

In the world where Thomith and Gypyx are scum in the neighborhood, by default you would be town, especially given your opposition to them.

Even separately of that, your opposition to them is +town regardless of your alignment. You are demonstrably frustrated at being outvoted and outgunned. Your way may not be the only way, but when you don't get it, it affects you. A scum-Titus is also more likely to get her way. That you didn't speaks towards you being town. If you were scum I would expect your voice to carry more weight in there, yet your voice there is a minority. It speaks towards you not having the normal sway signature to a scum-Titus hood.

Additionally, nobody's strongly town. You're the most town

from what I've read

, yet my reads are still fluid and in the process of forming, as I've many more pages to read.

You'd be the first to point out the signs I'm pointing to aren't

strongly

indicators of a town-Titus, and you're right; you're not locked as town. You're temporarily my top townread, yet to be seen where you'll land overall. I have you as +town, by an uncertain margin, because though not locked as town, I think the signs are still

promising

for town.

Why would me/gypyx being scum make Titus town by default?

[Thomith]

{Titus, Oblivion, Snow2697}
{Hu Tao}
{PenguinPower}
{KayJayQueue}
{geraintm}
{Gypyx, Random Nurse}
{Thomith}
{Little Wil o' Wisp}
{Naerys}

Why are you suspecting Naerys/Willow?

[Thomith]

Not Voting (5): Oblivion, Snow2697, geraintm, KayJayQueue, Titus

Stop it. Stop it now.

What

Assuming this is going back to the Day 1 discussion of Penguin wanting people to use their vote so we have information on them once we have more flips.

[Thomith]

I felt somewhat better about Ranger, but I did not like and understand her vote into Naerys.
Titus is added to my suspects list for her vote into Naerys, while she thinks that I am scum. I don't think that Naerys and myself can be fellow scums.
So, everyone from the hood are my suspects now. I currently think that the worst is
VOTE: Thomith

Why am I the worst?

[Thomith]

I felt somewhat better about Ranger, but I did not like and understand her vote into Naerys.
Titus is added to my suspects list for her vote into Naerys, while she thinks that I am scum. I don't think that Naerys and myself can be fellow scums.
So, everyone from the hood are my suspects now. I currently think that the worst is
VOTE: Thomith

Why am I the worst?

Please explain why not. If you are active, but do not look for scums? If you TR Gypyx and say that she actively solves the game (she does not)? if you and Gypyx are in virtually all wagons? If you do not explain why Jackson (killed BTW) is wrong when he said there is PR hunt here (to say "there isn't" is not enough)?

Gypyx is no. 2.

Titus and Ranger - what puzzles me is that they suspected people in the hood, but voted outside. So they are close.

To claim that I was PR hunting, but not be able to point out where is also not enough.

I have also been taking steps to solve, through figuring out who is outside my PoE/who I believe town are, so to claim I'm not looking for scum is also false.

[Thomith]

Saturday was the end of the period at work for me and being over Easter has kicked my ass a little.

I got through page 3 on my first break (man gotta eat)

-Naerys brought us out of RVS early. People did stop to talk about the speed of the wagon on Snow.

I like Dave just from 49, 58 right now. He wasn't afraid to buck the trend and start a random wagon, and his follow up seems pure (didn't seem invested in moving discussion away from Oblivion's theory). Not detecting an agenda here.

Thomith came off as fake solvy in 53, 64, and their interaction with Oblivion in post 52 was interesting. Any opinions here, S+S, T+S, T+T?

Naerys probably doesn't long quote Oblivion in 78 if partners just to give attention to Oblivion's weird level of confidence and to disagree.

More when I get home

How am I coming across as fake solvey?

[Thomith]

I low key kind of want to pivot to Snow..

[Thomith]

Okay sorry I have all the time in the world and coffee right now let's go

How am I coming across as fake solvey?

Because you were being very matter of fact. Timing and how you use your voice matters.

That's why I care very much about the interactions between Naerys-Oblivion-yourself. Scums tend to be uncomfortable at the beginning of a game, and the less you have to work with the more you have to fake it. The feeling of needing to have a valid opinion

only

comes from scum this early on. I didn't like how quicky we left RVS.

Why so you dislike how fast we left RVS?

[Thomith]

I also think it's probably a good idea to solve in the hood sooner rather than later.

I'm wondering if there is a likelihood that if there are multiple scum in the hood, they potentially have opposite stances on how the game has gone, which is making me question if Ranger/Snow are scum together (as in, I'm less inclined to believe thay they are).

[Thomith]

Ranger doesn't look awful on the catch up, but not sure what to do with that just yet.

[Thomith]

I was coming into today ready to pressure Jackson to start speaking more so I could read them better, but I guess that solves that..

Where does this post say I suspected Jackson?

[Thomith]

Seems pointless to say you would have voted a dead person for pressure. The vibe was that you thought they were scummy.

That outright is not what I said though? I said I wanted Jackson to speak more so I could read him, because up until that point I could not.

[Thomith]

We can disagree about wording if you want. In my experience scum like to discuss kills too much and towns are more concerned with mislims. Towns don't like feeling manipulated and kills are out of their hands.

I made a single post and moved on?

[Thomith]

maybe i'm wrong on the 2:3 theory but we at least have 3:2

I agree with this.
I don't think I see a world where there are 0 scum in the hood.

I do think I want to do this though
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Snow

[Thomith]

Well, I just did an entire page and a half of readslists with nobody else contributing.

I was letting you finish your catch up and then Armageddon happened lol

@Mod

would it he possible for us to get some kind of small extention due to this? I'm not sure everyone here is in the discord to know to connect to the site with the direct IP?

[Thomith]

It’s supposed to be fixed now I think? I didn’t do the IP thing to get in.

Mines still being weird on mobile.

[Thomith]

That's E-1 I believe

[Thomith]

That's E-1 I believe

From its count, -2 actually, since you unvoted?

You're right, Random Nurse threw me off

[Thomith]

Honestly, with how they played, I’d have expected Dave to be more likely to have a PR than Ranger. But since they’re the same slot…who knows. I’m heavily leaning towards no PR though.

Don't get it wrong. It has no interest in killing Ranger without a claim, certainly there are worlds where it is wrong and Ranger claims a Vigilante kill for example? Something provable that we can hold them to, even if it doesn't make them town by design it can be used for town value. (Though scum vig feels really strong is that normal?)

Either way, it will kill anyone in the game who kills without such a claim.

It is just saying right now, should Ranger claim tracker or doctor or one shot commuter or something, it is killing them regardless.

Scum Vig is only considered normal in Complex Normals.

[Thomith]

maybe i'm wrong on the 2:3 theory but we at least have 3:2

I agree with this.
I don't think I see a world where there are 0 scum in the hood.

I do think I want to do this though
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Snow

What do you think of 644?

And why Snow?

I'm honestly not sure what you want from me here.

I think it was a fair statement regarding the kill, and a vote with a not fully explained reason, which is common for Naerys, no matter her alignment.

[Thomith]

maybe i'm wrong on the 2:3 theory but we at least have 3:2

I agree with this.
I don't think I see a world where there are 0 scum in the hood.

I do think I want to do this though
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Snow

What do you think of 644?

And why Snow?

Snow is hard focused on me being scum because I was "PR Hunting", (or he at least believes thay Jackson was correctly saying I was PR hunting), but is refusing to elaborate as to where, so it feels like a blatant attempt to discredit me.

[Thomith]

Snow is hard focused on me being scum because I was "PR Hunting", (or he at least believes thay Jackson was correctly saying I was PR hunting), but is refusing to elaborate as to where, so it feels like a blatant attempt to discredit me.

I noted the same thing independently in my read, but I found you less concerned with PR hunting and more LAMIST.

570 thomith look at me caring about TPRs )) scumpost

tho

579 willow my pred makes the same scumpost lol i'd like to think that they wouldn't make a townpost like this if thomith doesn't make them conscious of the possibly of outing prs

Snow had some of the most effort in D1. 345, laser focused on Naerys (382, 536, 602, 666). I don't see this as scum, and I found them consistently the most townie.

Your claim that I was pretending to protect town PR's is not the same thing as Snow claiming I was attempting to PR hunt/out town PR's.
You also explained it, Snow is yet to.

E: fixed formatting. The post was thus:

Spoiler:

Snow is hard focused on me being scum because I was "PR Hunting", (or he at least believes thay Jackson was correctly saying I was PR hunting), but is refusing to elaborate as to where, so it feels like a blatant attempt to discredit me.

I noted the same thing independently in my read, but I found you less concerned with PR hunting and more LAMIST.

570 thomith look at me caring about TPRs )) scumpost[/post]

tho

579 willow my pred makes the same scumpost lol i'd like to think that they wouldn't make a townpost like this if thomith doesn't make them conscious of the possibly of outing prs

Snow had some of the most effort in D1. 345, laser focused on Naerys (382, 536, 602, 666). I don't see this as scum, and I found them consistently the most townie.

Your claim that I was pretending to protect town PR's is not the same thing as Snow claiming I was attempting to PR hunt/out town PR's.
You also explained it, Snow is yet to.

[Thomith]

i have no idea wtf happened there...

[Thomith]

I am once again asking you to vote inside the hood

What's the main reason for it? The assumption that there must be at least one Scum in the Hood? Chance are high there's probably 1 in there, but in the past as a mod I made an all-Town NH once. There's 5 in there right? If a Neighbor gets plugged and they're Town do we just keep shooting the fish in that barrel until Scum gets hit?

It is not an assumption but rather a certainety when considering hood dynamics and stuff

This.
I genuinely highly highly doubt the entire hood is town.

[Thomith]

Most likely Town
Gypyx
Titus
Ranger
Snow
Must Likely Scum

In my opinion.

If Snow flips Scum, Ranger and Titus swap places for me I think.

[Thomith]

...Gypyx, your list?

Also, what conversations are going on in there?

That's my mistake, misread and thought you were asking generally, not specifically to Gypyx

[Thomith]

Most likely Town
Gypyx
Titus
Ranger
Snow
Must Likely Scum

In my opinion.

If Snow flips Scum, Ranger and Titus swap places for me I think.

Just to clarify it's those 4 and you in the NH?

Yes

[Thomith]

Most likely Town
Gypyx
Titus
Ranger
Snow
Must Likely Scum

In my opinion.

If Snow flips Scum, Ranger and Titus swap places for me I think.

Just to clarify it's those 4 and you in the NH?

Yes

...

So what do you think if this? Shooting in a Neighborhood, yeah? Kind if exciting.

...

Tell me more about what you think of this.

I'm genuinely not sure what your question is here?

[Thomith]

Most likely Town
Gypyx
Titus
Ranger
Snow
Must Likely Scum

In my opinion.

If Snow flips Scum, Ranger and Titus swap places for me I think.

Just to clarify it's those 4 and you in the NH?

Yes

...

So what do you think if this? Shooting in a Neighborhood, yeah? Kind if exciting.

...

Tell me more about what you think of this.

I'm genuinely not sure what your question is here?

Tell me more about your thoughts on shooting within the Neighborhood.

I think that if there is scum in the hood, which I genuinely believe there is, that shooting within the hood is a good idea.

I think finding out Snows alignment is a good idea more specifically, because if there are multiple scum in the hood, they are likely taking different stances so they don't look obviously aligned, so if Snow does flip scum, then this helps us sort Titus/Ranger.

[Thomith]

Yes but it's highly, HIGHLY, HIIIIIIIIIGHLY unrealistic of you to base your expectations around that

Is that my expectation?

...or are you just reacting a tad bit defensively?

Alternatively, are you not acting opportunistically, deliberately saying things to goad us so you can jump on us reacting to that? (To clarify, I don't actually think this, but I want to point out how easy it is to twist this type of situation).

I almost made a post to point out the absurdity of you saying we left because we were talking in a scum PT, but didn't, knowing this would be your next line of argument, which quite frankly I think is a waste of time since I don't think any of this is AI.

[Thomith]

Most likely Town
Gypyx
Titus
Ranger
Snow
Must Likely Scum

In my opinion.

If Snow flips Scum, Ranger and Titus swap places for me I think.

Just to clarify it's those 4 and you in the NH?

Yes

...

So what do you think if this? Shooting in a Neighborhood, yeah? Kind if exciting.

...

Tell me more about what you think of this.

I'm genuinely not sure what your question is here?

Tell me more about your thoughts on shooting within the Neighborhood.

I think that if there is scum in the hood, which I genuinely believe there is, that shooting within the hood is a good idea.

I think finding out Snows alignment is a good idea more specifically, because if there are multiple scum in the hood, they are likely taking different stances so they don't look obviously aligned, so if Snow does flip scum, then this helps us sort Titus/Ranger.

1. What's the main reason you won't launch Gypyx?

2. Assuming you won't launch Gypyx, and factoring in Ranger's claim, who are you wanting to launch between Titus and Snow and why?

I fully do not expect Gypyx to flip anything but town for a few reasons;
She has been making attempts to solve, didn't immediately jump onto a NAS Wagon and stuck to her own solves for most of the game day, only jumping across when she had to during EoD.

In the hood, she was driving the discussion with me without attempting to control the narrative at all imo, which also gave me good vibes.

Between Snow/Titus I would prefer to fade Snow, as I feel like he has not given me any way to defend myself from his accusations, refusing to elaborate on his main point that I am "PR Hunting", and I don't see the town motivation to not give the person you are accusing any way to explain themselves.
As I have also stated, assuming either/both of Titus or Snow does end up flipping scum, I think Snow gives us more immediate information to help us solve the hood completely.

[Thomith]

Yes but it's highly, HIGHLY, HIIIIIIIIIGHLY unrealistic of you to base your expectations around that

Is that my expectation?

...or are you just reacting a tad bit defensively?

Alternatively, are you not acting opportunistically, deliberately saying things to goad us so you can jump on us reacting to that? (To clarify, I don't actually think this, but I want to point out how easy it is to twist this type of situation).

I almost made a post to point out the absurdity of you saying we left because we were talking in a scum PT, but didn't, knowing this would be your next line of argument, which quite frankly I think is a waste of time since I don't think any of this is AI.

If you're Scum you need to be very careful how you respond to my questions. I have nothing to hide and nothing to preserve, so if you spill blood on the water I'll be on you just like that.

If it isn't painfully obvious I'm Scumhunting both of you at the same time, looking for answers and discrepancies, as well as disproportionate reactions. The last thing you want to do is start turtling up and getting defensive, because that's the greenlight for me to start getting into it.

I know what you are doing, I just genuinely don't think a reaction to that post is AI enough for it to be overly useful, because I think any reaction to something like that can be easily explained from a scum or town mindset.

[Thomith]

Thoughts on geraintm at the moment?

*sips tea*

I remember thinking Gera was town but I don't really remember why I thought that if I'm being Completely honest, so I should probably reread him.

[Thomith]

It feels like a.lot of bad faith voting going on at the moment.

I just can't work out who

This has an air of "don't look at me I'm Towning," and it irks my gut.

Yeah I don't like that post either.
I'll skim through the ISO quickly now, see if this is a repeated thing.

[Thomith]

People trying really hard to generation content.

I'm just going to say right now I hate "towncores/townblocks" in general. Too easy to shield experienced Scum.

unless there is a mechanical reason for it, then this

i dont think i am on board with you Gypyx in you just lining up a bunch of Hood members and running through them. i don't think that is optimal strategy for the rest of us to trust you so much

Day 1, Titus and snow were voting Dave-slot at certain points (moreso than Thom/Gypyx) and today they aren’t. I’m wondering if they changed their mind or if they’re also just waiting.

I don't like Dave, but I also don't like self-proclaimed Thomith-Gypyx townblock.

This, again

Ranger, I think Snow is very likely scum. Can't follow that. Nor do I follow your gypyx/Thom reada

Why are you not voting there then?

These posts seem to have similar energy FWIW

[Thomith]

Most likely Town
Gypyx
Titus
Ranger
Snow
Must Likely Scum

In my opinion.

If Snow flips Scum, Ranger and Titus swap places for me I think.

Just to clarify it's those 4 and you in the NH?

Yes

...

So what do you think if this? Shooting in a Neighborhood, yeah? Kind if exciting.

...

Tell me more about what you think of this.

I'm genuinely not sure what your question is here?

Tell me more about your thoughts on shooting within the Neighborhood.

I think that if there is scum in the hood, which I genuinely believe there is, that shooting within the hood is a good idea.

I think finding out Snows alignment is a good idea more specifically, because if there are multiple scum in the hood, they are likely taking different stances so they don't look obviously aligned, so if Snow does flip scum, then this helps us sort Titus/Ranger.

1. What's the main reason you won't launch Gypyx?

2. Assuming you won't launch Gypyx, and factoring in Ranger's claim, who are you wanting to launch between Titus and Snow and why?

I fully do not expect Gypyx to flip anything but town for a few reasons;
She has been making attempts to solve, didn't immediately jump onto a NAS Wagon and stuck to her own solves for most of the game day, only jumping across when she had to during EoD.

In the hood, she was driving the discussion with me without attempting to control the narrative at all imo, which also gave me good vibes.

Between Snow/Titus I would prefer to fade Snow, as I feel like he has not given me any way to defend myself from his accusations, refusing to elaborate on his main point that I am "PR Hunting", and I don't see the town motivation to not give the person you are accusing any way to explain themselves.
As I have also stated, assuming either/both of Titus or Snow does end up flipping scum, I think Snow gives us more immediate information to help us solve the hood completely.

[Thomith]

I am ready to vote into the hood today.
The most suspicious are Thomith-Gypyx followed by Titus-Ranger.
I set out my case on Thomith-Gypyx. IMO they have not properly responded. Thomith keeps saying that Gypyx was trying to solve the game, but she was not.
I don't like Ranger and his gradual move of Thomith-Gypyx from the scum side to town side of the spectrum.
I very much disliked Titus for her saying that I am scum, but voting outside the hood into Naerys.

I havent seen you give me anything to respond to.

[Thomith]

Despite there being only one kill Night 1 we ARE 100% certain this game is singleball, correct?

(I know, I know, I just HAVE to ask.)

I think there could be a SK, but we would have to be told if there are multiple scum teams?

[Thomith]

Despite there being only one kill Night 1 we ARE 100% certain this game is singleball, correct?

(I know, I know, I just HAVE to ask.)

From the wiki:
Multiball - when there are two or more Mafia factions - is allowed in Large games only, and requires an announcement.

[Thomith]

Despite there being only one kill Night 1 we ARE 100% certain this game is singleball, correct?

(I know, I know, I just HAVE to ask.)

From the wiki:
Multiball - when there are two or more Mafia factions - is allowed in Large games only, and requires an announcement.

I'm assuming that includes SK under "two or more Mafia factions," Thomith?

Serial Killers are not allowed in Micro games. They are allowed in Mini games but must be announced during signups. They are allowed in Larges and do not require an announcement.

So in this game, we wouldn't be told.

[Thomith]

I felt somewhat better about Ranger, but I did not like and understand her vote into Naerys.
Titus is added to my suspects list for her vote into Naerys, while she thinks that I am scum. I don't think that Naerys and myself can be fellow scums.
So, everyone from the hood are my suspects now. I currently think that the worst is
VOTE: Thomith

Why am I the worst?

Please explain why not. If you are active, but do not look for scums? If you TR Gypyx and say that she actively solves the game (she does not)? if you and Gypyx are in virtually all wagons? If you do not explain why Jackson (killed BTW) is wrong when he said there is PR hunt here (to say "there isn't" is not enough)?

Gypyx is no. 2.

Titus and Ranger - what puzzles me is that they suspected people in the hood, but voted outside. So they are close.

To claim that I was PR hunting, but not be able to point out where is also not enough.

I have also been taking steps to solve, through figuring out who is outside my PoE/who I believe town are, so to claim I'm not looking for scum is also false.

I did respond.

You also are accusing me of PR hunting, but every time I ask you to show me where so I can refute that, you refuse to, then say its not enough for me to say I wasn't doing that.
Hence me believing you are accusing me, but not giving me anything to respond to, so I can argue against these accusations, hence me believing you are scum trying to discredit me.

[Thomith]

what if gypyx is the only scum in hood

Doubtful.

Do you suspect Gypyx?

[Thomith]

Bad feelings about Thomith-Gypyx being on Snow and nothing happening there. Keep that in mind if this game goes late.

Don't agree on randomnurse being scummy. See 549. They didn't agree with pushing NAS, and they caught them online and asked them to contribute. Townpost. They were actively offering alternatives and kneejerked hard to the NAS flashwagon. They didn't let that go for 100s of posts. Doesn't read as bullshit.

Geraint has shown good paranoia in this game. 379
wouldn't make good partners with scum!penguin 440
bad faith voting post 961

Spoiler: vote count at post

2.07

Votecount 2.07

Ranger (E-2): Hu Tao, Random Nurse, Thomith, PenguinPower, Gypyx
Naerys (2): Ranger, Titus
Titus (1): Naerys
Thomith (1): Snow2697

Not Voting (4): Oblivion, geraintm, KayJayQueue, Lycanfire

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-04-06 10:29:00).

Mod Notes: The combined mod ISO is here.

Ranger wagon at this point was lazy. We have a crossvote between Naerys and Titus, a vanity vote, and two people scumreading each other voting Naerys together.

Could you elaborate on the first point?

[Thomith]

Yes lets vote claimed pr no matter that this slot will sort itself in a night or two
Awesome logic,my faith in this town goes under the zero

scum vig exists, this solves kinda nothing

So how does that work?

If a Scum Vig exists it's still only one Factional kill, right?

Yes, still one factional kill, but then the vig can make another seperate kill.

[Thomith]

I hate broken quotes
Gypyx is the one focused on limming in the hood, nurse

I am almost positive there are scum in the hood.

[Thomith]

I hate broken quotes
Gypyx is the one focused on limming in the hood, nurse

I am almost positive there are scum in the hood.

Same, but it shouldn't be driving the elimination today

Why not? Is it scummy to believe it should?

[Thomith]

To be fair, I think that me and Gypyx are getting similar feelings that the vibe in the hood is weird to a point of I doubt everyone in it is town, but its hard to explain because not everyone knows what we do I guess?

It's so hard to explain

[Thomith]

Titus could be scum I guess but idk

If you think Ranger is scum, why are you not voting there?

I'm fine with letting the claim live

Why?

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ranger

I'm not liking the direction that it looks like this day may take if we don't end it soon if I'm being 100% honest.

[Thomith]

VOTE: Snow

[Thomith]

I’m sorry I didn’t listen to you literally Day 1, Hu. I should’ve just trusted you but then this neighborhood stuff got in my head. And Ranger kinda scared me with how aggressive she was when I was trying to be gracious while she caught up.

So are we continuing on with looking inside the hood? I’m scared of tunneling there and not looking at all options. I still stand behind my Penguin vote but I think I need to take a backseat for the first few days of D2 to reevaluate other players.

I’d like the opinions of the other 4 hood players on if they feel we definitely have another scum in hood. (I think I know where Thom and Gypyx stand)

I specifically do not like how Snow has been refusing to elaborate on why he believes I was PR hunting Day 1, and every time I ask him about it, he states that I'm posting nonsense and refusing to interact further. He is not giving me any way to allow me to explain or defend myself.

He also made a post in the hood just before the Night ended, stating it Gypyx did not explain her scumread on her then he would 1v1 her today, (while I am biased) this seemed to setup his push on Gypyx today, to almost give a reason for his actions before he did them.

I personally don't see the possible town motivation behind either action.

We don't necessarily have to hard focus on the hood today like I wanted us to yesterday, but I'm voting here for now as Snow is my current biggest scumread.

[Thomith]

VOTE: snow

Lego

Why has Snow changed from your biggest townread to somebody you're willing to vote?

[Thomith]

I’m sorry I didn’t listen to you literally Day 1, Hu. I should’ve just trusted you but then this neighborhood stuff got in my head. And Ranger kinda scared me with how aggressive she was when I was trying to be gracious while she caught up.

So are we continuing on with looking inside the hood? I’m scared of tunneling there and not looking at all options. I still stand behind my Penguin vote but I think I need to take a backseat for the first few days of D2 to reevaluate other players.

I’d like the opinions of the other 4 hood players on if they feel we definitely have another scum in hood. (I think I know where Thom and Gypyx stand)

I specifically do not like how Snow has been refusing to elaborate on why he believes I was PR hunting Day 1, and every time I ask him about it, he states that I'm posting nonsense and refusing to interact further. He is not giving me any way to allow me to explain or defend myself.

He also made a post in the hood just before the Night ended, stating it Gypyx did not explain her scumread on her then he would 1v1 her today, (while I am biased) this seemed to setup his push on Gypyx today, to almost give a reason for his actions before he did them.

I personally don't see the possible town motivation behind either action.

We don't necessarily have to hard focus on the hood today like I wanted us to yesterday, but I'm voting here for now as Snow is my current biggest scumread.

You are misstating our hood communications in open thread. Please stop doing this.

Re PR hunting. For the record, my position is that you were active on D1, but you were not hunting scums. Jackson made a "PR hunt" comment and got killed. Your bare statement that you were not PR hunting is not sufficient. So, I am still waiting for your explanations on how you were scumhunting - and not PR hunting - on D1. So far there are none.

Stating we should execute a VT claim rather than run up another player and risk a PR claiming close to EoD, which is what I was doing prior to the "PR hunt" comment, is not PR hunting.

I have been asking questions to gague peoples reactions, which is what I usually do to gather information to scumhunt, and was actively trying to solve (Voting Naerys because I believed pressuring her would make her spew her alignment as an example), working to create a PoE to allow me to begin solving.
I actively wanted to out the hood early, because I believed there was scum there, should also be proof that I am working towards trying to solve this game as well.

[Thomith]

I'm willing to go outside the hood today, because I will admit I'm 100% tunnelled on Snow right now. Rightly or wrongly, I guess we'll see.

FWIW this is where I think I am right now:

Gypyx
Naerys
Titus

KayJayQueue
Oblivion
Random Nurse

geraintm
PenguinPower

Lycanfire
Snow2697

[Thomith]

I'm willing to go outside the hood today, because I will admit I'm 100% tunnelled on Snow right now. Rightly or wrongly, I guess we'll see.

FWIW this is where I think I am right now:

Gypyx
Naerys
Titus

KayJayQueue
Oblivion
Random Nurse

geraintm
PenguinPower

Lycanfire
Snow2697

This is an awful reads list and it thinks you can die after Naerys.

Lycanfire and Penguin swapped the momentum away from Ranger living to Ranger dying. It was the one responsible for ensuring Ranger died. Those 3 slots are town and never dying today. Snow and Hu Tao were attempted counter wagons to save Ranger. Also town.

If I was scum why would I swing the momentum back to execute Ranger when it seemed that momentum may have begun picking up elsewhere?

[Thomith]

Infact it has a special power where it can psychicly see into your scum PT? So it sees the moment where Ranger gave up and told you to bus her.

Incorrect.

[Thomith]

We will see. It is most amused you believe you get to dictate today.

Snow is off the table.

I'm not stating I get to dictate the day. In fact I said I'm willing to go outside the hood because I may be tunnelled, I'm just voting my biggest scumread right now.

[Thomith]

It is considering a Mass Claim at this point. We have had 2 nights of actions, it wonders if a third benefits us over forcing claims.

It would like to do this in a Popcorn styling.

It might clear some things up.

[Thomith]

Situational doesn't match. Lycan was clearly town from replacement and Peguin was disconnected enough to rejoin and simply believe the claim if he wanted. Town and Town. Ranger was very clearly trying to live.

I agree withbthe last statement.

I believe at least one person hard pushing Ranger was probably bussing, because I believe that slot was kind of doomed already.

[Thomith]

Unless the team is Titus, geraint and random nurse we have to pick out who is scum here.

I'd like to see people less willing to line up eliminations. It isn't very compelling at this stage.

I don't think I'm willing to execute Titus today.

I also feel pretty good about Random Nurse, so wouldn't really want to execute there either.

[Thomith]

VOTE: snow

still want this gone

Naerys is town and for those of you pushing scum you kinda need to recalibrate your scum compass

if snow flips town i swear i'll leave the hood stuff alone for a bit and try to explore more options

...

...

Hm...

I'm curious to hear your thoughts/current reads.

[Thomith]

Penguin, it needs you to step in an be a voice of authority given your joindate because Gypyx is boxing it out with "experience" to get what she wants.

Snow is a terrible elimination today and we should infact mass claim.

we have heard why Gypyx doesn't want to, could it explain why it is so adamant we should mass claim today?

(it can do this later if it doesn't want to influence how people do claim if we mass claim or whatever, or it feels that it's not best to reveal immediately, but I would like to try and understand, as I am undecided at the moment)

[Thomith]

Who else would it be?

Well like, it's gonna have to remind me where i declared intention to kill Hu lol

and yes, while i'll admit i've had a moment of reconsideration when hearing the claim, i was the driving force behind me / thomith placing in the last 2 votes, Thom / titus / snow can vouch for it

Can confirm Gypyx asked if I'd vote so she could hammer in the hood chat at the end of Day 2

[Thomith]

I'm at work right now, but I'm here on and off. What's up?

[Thomith]

I'm interested in your idea of a bus vote. This has to be true if we assume Naerys and Snow are exclusive if either are scum. This only leaves Kay+Geraint+Naerys|Snow as a team otherwise.

Could you clarify what you're asking here please?

[Thomith]

This feels like a pointless argument that doesn't seem AI either way..

[Thomith]

Oh, so you'd rather deflect and not answer my question? You said you're concerned that I would have better focus than you regarding Gypyx's alignment. Now what the Hell does that mean?

Are you actively choosing to skip Naerys' post where she implies that Gypyx can be scum despite saying something not scummy? It was a fluffy post. The statement you're highlighting is illustrating that I wasn't saying "Gypex town" but instead "argument bad".

Move on

I'm acknowledging that I've seen your other post by the way, I just want to be not busy/distracted before responding to it.

[Thomith]

I do think Gypyx would be the optimal lim today, and if Gypyx is Scum then Thomith is toast.

Gypyx is town, so it would be a waste of an execution.

Should have time later today after work to catch up on everything.

[Thomith]

Sorry I've been busy the past few days so have not been able to be as active I guess, but I don't see how that's AI?

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:

[Thomith]

thomith help me

I'll catch up when I get home from work and provide more insight into things I've missed.
From skimreading things, I'm nat as convinced at about Snow being scum, but it still confuses me because I feel like 1 scum in the hood isn't likely.

[Thomith]

I do think Gypyx would be the optimal lim today, and if Gypyx is Scum then Thomith is toast.

Gypyx is town, so it would be a waste of an execution.

Should have time later today after work to catch up on everything.

How can you know that

How do you think?

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:

Let's not actually do this lmao

i'm very much dissapointed in you Thomith

T

rust me I'm disappointed in myself too lol.

O

f course it would have been funny if this had actually gone through, but I got cold feet

W

ith that being said, I do want to get some information out of Day 1 that a quick lim probably doesn't get us.

N

aerys is probably right that there is a decent chance that the scum might have been hiding on the wagon as it was growing

For the record, I crumbed this during my first interaction with Gypyx.

I assumed there was 1 scum and maybe a traitor in the hood because of this, because that would make sense to make me and Gypyx buddying more suspicious, to counteract us knowing each other were town.

Snows play today makes me doubt this theory a bit though

[Thomith]

Town-Informed...

...Neighbors.

...

...

..

.

Yup.

Informed that Gypyx is town and that she is also informed that I am town.