Sushi Mafia! Game Over

[DrippingGoofball]

/arigato

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm guessing that:

Microphone_Kirby (5)- Pear Bear, ortolan, OhGodMyLife, Sipylus, Green Crayons
raider8169 (3)- Plum, Septia, Talitha
Seraphim (3)- CounselWolf, sirdanilot, Slicey

One of these three players is scum, and being bus'ed.

I'll check again at end game. Here's my wager. If I'm wrong, I'll replace in 3 games. If I'm right, I'll mod a game.

[DrippingGoofball]

Protip: Saying "Well the random stage is over so unvote" and not doing anything else is scummy.

If we lynch him, it will be a lesson well learned.

unvote, vote: Slicey

[DrippingGoofball]

Protip: Saying "Well the random stage is over so unvote" and not doing anything else is scummy.

If we lynch him, it will be a lesson well learned.

unvote, vote: Slicey

Your willing to lynch someone over just that?

On page 6, it's an excellent reason. Besides, I like to pressure these kinds of players, and he's opened the door.

[DrippingGoofball]

I was thinking of something along of lines of Prison Riot Mafia.

[DrippingGoofball]

OK I just came back from a concert and picked up my prod. I have some catching up to do here, I got caught up with drama in other games.

[DrippingGoofball]

M_K is just wild. Even I have trouble wrapping my head around it...

[DrippingGoofball]

Yes, I am semi-lurking, but I am not hesitating to post; I just don't have much to add at the moment as most of the discussion usually works itself out. I'm in no hurry to lynch anyone: If a decision needs to be made, then I don't mind being the deciding vote...

WHOA!!!! Hey guys we caught more scum!

[DrippingGoofball]

Yes, I am semi-lurking, but I am not hesitating to post; I just don't have much to add at the moment as most of the discussion usually works itself out. I'm in no hurry to lynch anyone: If a decision needs to be made, then I don't mind being the deciding vote...

Yeah.

Admits to lurking but calls it 'semi' lurking. Says he doesn't have much to add, but waits by the sidelines for discussions to 'work themselves out' without input from him, whatever he means by 'discussions working themselves out.'

However, this wimp who has, by his own admission, little to say, is willing to hammer.

ANYBODY.

He's waiting for the discussion to work itself out, ie,

get to lynch minus one

. Right? That's the gist of it.

And when we're at lynch minus one, whoever is being lynched, he's willing to hammer. It doesn't matter who. As long as it's not him.

He's just Mr. Silent-Semilurker-Hammer. When we need a hammer, he'll be there. But not for anything else. For anything but the hammer, count him out. He just doesn't have much to say.

I'm sorry folks but this is scum all the way.

unvote, vote: Santos

[DrippingGoofball]

Ditto. What do you have to say to DGB's accusation, Mr. Silent-Semilurker-Hammer?

It not always a scum tell as townies do it as well however he response to it means a lot. It is lynch worth on a first day as I think we will get ride of an unproductive member and set a precedence for all lurkers. Granted after the first day I tend to post more as I have more to go off from and the votes are something I can start looking into.

Did that answer your question or were you looking for something different?

I believe that the question was meant for Santos.

It's interesting how you feel it applies to you enough that you would not recognize this obvious fact.

[DrippingGoofball]

Catching up on the next page I notice a lot of people would rather vote for me being honest as opposed to posting some BS excuse that I can't read a forum thread of a few pages and will do so in several days from now. Pathetic.

So you were being honest about having nothing to say, but being willing to hammer anybody.

Great!

[DrippingGoofball]

The above is a very important post, and vote. If Santos flips scum, hp[leaves] has a heightened probability of being Santos' buddy.

[DrippingGoofball]

...given that the risk of putting Santos at minus one only means that he'll have to claim. hp [leaves] may be trying to keep Santos out of claiming range.

However, hp [leaves] switched from the main competing wagon (MK) to Santos, so that's a little less damning.

[DrippingGoofball]

This santos bandwagon is not only awesome because santos is probably scum, just look at the huge amount of information on the bandwagon itself. DGB, I don't really see your point why hp west in particular would be so extremely scummy when Santos flips scum.

I realized I might have rushed to judgment, see my post #264 on this very page.

[DrippingGoofball]

He has to hammer or get modkilled?

HAHHAHHHhahhahhahahahahhahhahhahhhhahhhahhahahahhahha HAHAHAH ahahha

Phew, good one.

[DrippingGoofball]

The last time I was in a game where someone claimed that they had to hammer (to get special powers), I was a Jesterbomb. He was, in fact, scum. He hammered me, I won, and he died along with me.

[DrippingGoofball]

More importantly, what happens if he hammers himself?

[DrippingGoofball]

Flameaxe made an appearance late in the wagon but declined to vote. He paid no attention to Santos' earlier scummy posts, and even mildly defended Santos. I'm a bit divided on that one given my belief that if Flameaxe had been Santos' buddy, he would have bus'ed him so hard our heads would spin.

OGML was resisting the Santos wagon by continuing to be very aggressive on the M_K wagon. It's like he was screaming to us, "No!!! Look HERE!!! Lynch M_K! What are you guys doing! M_K! M_K!" OK that's a bit of hyperbole for humor's sake. But then he switched to Santos anyway, when it looked like Santos' lynch was inevitable.

Something funny I noticed with Setanta. It's nothing major, but look at THIS POST. It was glaringly obvious that Santos had revealed that he had a safeclaim. Setanta's reaction is odd, given that he was one of the first on the Santos wagon. He may have had second thoughts about bus'ing his partner - that's the thought that comes to mind.

[DrippingGoofball]

Concerning Pear Bear. He wrote: "I was hesitant to post because my random vote for MK seemed to have been a decent pick in the first place, and I was assessing what everyone else was thinking to determine if I wanted to keep my vote on MK or not. "

Hesitation to post = scum.
Assessing what everyone is thinking to decide where you place your vote = scum.
Newbie scum random vote = often a vote on your buddy.

[DrippingGoofball]

And what about Septia???

Check out THIS POST. He says he's not lurking, though he clearly is. His comments on the Santos wagon are gems.

ON JANUARY 22:

Sorry for inactivity, I've been pretty busy. Will get into it tomorrow and catch up.

He never did catch up.

ON JANUARY 26:

The bandwaggon on Santos has been too fast for my liking, and I understand the case on him, but mafia would be more careful to not make a slip up like that. I'm basing this off page 10 alone though,still need to read back.

I'm going to hold back from lynching Santos right now until I see more from him. Will read back now and give my thoughts/ suspicions.

He suggests that mafia would be too careful to make such a slip? That's interesting, because that was hardly a slip, but rather, a huge unintentional scumtell. Septia claims that he needs to read back, but never does. He never even commented on the competing M_K wagon.

So this lurker has the nerve to show up and express his displeasure at the speed of a SCUMWAGON. He makes excuses for said scum, wants to hear more from him, and never read back or gave thoughts or suspicions.

[DrippingGoofball]

Looking a hp[leaves]. THIS POST is interesting. He totally caught on Santos' mistake where he practically admitted to having a safeclaim. But hp[leaves] refrained from hammering. Why on Earth would a player refrain from hammering a player he believes has a SAFECLAIM, for cryin' out loud? What does it take for you to hammer somebody?

Going backwards in time, hp[leaves] said: "I like the pressure on Santos; but I don't think he's that scummy to have another vote on." It's like hp[leaves]really really really doesn't want that poor Santos to have another vote on... even after he slips up that he has a safeclaim!

Again, going back in time, hp[leaves]declined to honor the Santos wagon with his presence, rather he went against the prevailing wind to cast a vote on OGML. Given OMGL's own reactions to the Santos wagon, which is to browbeat us to lynch M_K instead, I suggest that hp[leaves] might have been doing some safe distancing from OGML. I don't recall OGML having any votes at the time. That vote was a weird move.

[DrippingGoofball]

Possible Santos Scumbuddies:

Azhrei
Flameaxe
hp [leaves] - less suspicious
Jebus
OGML - less suspicious
Septia - less suspicious
Setanta

Why Azhrei? Why Jebus?

Why are OGML, Septia and Setanta

less

suspicious? I have to ask, because they top

my

list.

[DrippingGoofball]

Pear Bear has done some scummy stuff as I outlined in an earlier post, but his question isn't all that surprising given that he's a noob.

[DrippingGoofball]

Is OGML keeping a low profile in the hope that we'll forget about him and build cases against players that are currently more active?

[DrippingGoofball]

Scum must have had a field day in their qt discussing how they were gonna lynch me today.

Yeah what are they saying?

[DrippingGoofball]

I am here and will update shortly. Sorry all.

Uh... I don't get it. Why do people make posts like this? Its decently scummy and doesn't actually throw any content in. Also, its followed about 90% of the time by them not actually putting the said review up. *Getting it out of my system*

Hey Hybris, just for my curiosity. Who is the mod in this game?

[DrippingGoofball]

OGML's strategic lurking, when in jeopardy, confirms that he is scum.

vote: OGML

[DrippingGoofball]

Plum, of all of those scrambling to find the right/easiest lynch in the wake of the Santos lynch, you're the only one who seemed to actually be trying to do so

in a way diagnostic of alignment

based on yesterday's play.

Um...... you lost me here. Can you explain that in

simpler

terms?

I'll explain it. OGML is trying to suggest that his strategic lurking is a form of scum hunting.

He's going to lurk while we wagon him, and then at the end of the day, he'll call scum on most of the players on his own lynch.

Besides calling Plum 'town,' he seems to be carefully avoiding association or disassociation with players - possibly to give us as little to work with tomorrow as possible, if he flips scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

OGML is a good / well-known player...

... If you say so. How would I know... or, true or not, why should I care?

...in a game that's likely to have more than one killing group. I doubt he'll still be alive at endgame. We don't need to waste a lynch on him.

Really......?
Geez... this post is giving me some really bad vibes...

Good catch.

In other news, since I see nothing noticeably scummy about Azhrei, or even nothing noticeable about Azhrei, I can't help but think Azhrei is being bus'ed.

[DrippingGoofball]

Why likely? Because it is always likely that a 24 player game has more than one killing party. And then we have Santos named as a "pre-cooked" goon - which is suggestive (but not conclusive) of other scum.

Really. I assumed that the game has pre-cooked sushi against raw sushi. Why would you think otherwise, ESPECIALLY since THERE WAS ONLY ONE NIGHTKILL????

[DrippingGoofball]

And I agree that the prefix "Precooked" suggests there may well be multiple mafia factions anyhow...

Does it, really? I understood it to mean that we were authentic raw sushi against a pre-cooked sushi mafia. What other kind of sushi would be scummy? Maybe I should study Japanese restaurant menus.

[DrippingGoofball]

I don't see the case against Azhrei, so at the moment I'm suspicious of the players that are making what appears to be a bogus case against Azhrei.

Really I don't get it. Can someone explain it to me?

[DrippingGoofball]

And I agree that the prefix "Precooked" suggests there may well be multiple mafia factions anyhow...

Does it, really? I understood it to mean that we were authentic raw sushi against a pre-cooked sushi mafia. What other kind of sushi would be scummy? Maybe I should study Japanese restaurant menus.

Why is your biggest concern right now making sure everyone stops looking for a theoretical second scumgroup, hmm?

ORLY. We already have one scum on day 1, we have tons of info to find that scum's buddies, and you want us searching blindly for a second scumgroup that may or may not exist, when there was a SINGLE nightkill? What I find scummy are people that seem to KNOW there is a second scumgroup, something that there is no legitimate hint of so far.

See, I'm town, and I don't give a rat's tutu which brand of scum dies, as long as it's scum. And since we got lucky and hit scum on Day 1, it's easiest to find scum associated with the dead scumbag. I'm not worried, if there's a second scumgroup, we'll find evidence of it soon enough. And when we do, we'll go after that second scum group.

OMGL is trying to send us on a wild goose chase. I'd understand his concerns if we were in mid game. But we're on Day 2.

[DrippingGoofball]

Thanks MK, I see the case.

Well.

If they have done the same, why pick Azhrei over OGML, or vice versa?

[DrippingGoofball]

Pushing hard for a lynch is something that town have a lot more reason to do than scum, and it is a weak reason to vote someone

Tragically, that's a big boatload of WIFOM.

I've seen my buddies be relentless against a fellow buddy; I have seen buddies tunneling on a townie because they felt they had a believable fake scumtell, and look like they are genuinely scumhunting while lynching a townie.

What you say appears logical, and in many ways, it is. However, my experience tells me that scum very often has motives that override your theory.

[DrippingGoofball]

Plus, Talitha, scum would push hard for town lynches in order to save their own ass and their scumbuddy's asses. >_>

Also. Good deduction.

@DGB: Flameaxe?

You keep pushing me to make a case against Flameaxe.

It's surreal.

Why are you pushing ME and not someone else? Why Flameaxe as opposed to another lurker? If you think there's a case to be made, why don't you make it yourself? You totally sound like someone who knows other people's alignments and is trying to concoct some evil mastermind manipulation. You smell very strongly of 'informed minority' and 'puppet master.'

[DrippingGoofball]

Lets see, to sum up - there is very likely more than one mafia group. DGB is in it. Its probably got most of Flameaxe, Pear Bear, Ortolan, M_K and raider in it.

Also scummy, somewhat independent of the DGB nucleus of evil, are Narsis, Azhrei, Slicey and most significantly Riceballtail, who hasn't done anything today.

I also love the above. Once again, you sound like someone who knows a heckuvalot more more than I do. You seem very sure that there are two scumgroups - there was ONE nightkill! Even with two nightkills, I'd suspect a scumgroup and an SK before jumping to the conclusion of two scumgroups, and jumping the gun with two separate scumlists, on Day 2.

What this allows you, OhGodPuppetMaster, is to cast a very wide net. You are naming TEN players as scum, for a total of eleven counting the dead scum Santos. Eleven out of 24. I don't think that anyone would believe that we have that many scum, but your suspect list is unusually large, and poorly focused, in stark contrast with your near-certainty of the presence of two scumgroups, without considering an SK instead.

This suggests that you are part of an informed minority, and that you are one of a small scumgroup. For instance, you may be three in your scumgroup, which would be small for a 24 player game. Therefore, it would seem unlikely to you that a second nightkilling faction would consist of a mere SK. You would expect, with your knowledge of the existence of your, say, 3-person scumgroup in a game of 24 players, a second mafia group.

[DrippingGoofball]

If there were two scum groups, how likely would it be that they know eachothers identities?

Highly unlikely. However, if OGML is part of say, a 3-member scumgroup without exceptional powers, it would be logical for him to highly suspect a second scumgroup.

Nothing I said suggested that mafiates in a game with two scum groups know the members of the other scumteam. All I'm sayin', is that OGML seems to know that another scumteam exists. And he would know that, if his scumteam has fewer members than expected from a game this size.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, you call this out as WIFOM (rightly so, I think), but then you say, in a weaselly sort of way, that in fact "pushing hard for a lynch" is a mild scumtell (and this is one of the reasons that you are voting for OGML). Either it's WIFOM (which makes it a nulltell, and poor justification for a lynch) or it's a scumtell. Which is it?

I'm saying that pushing hard for a lynch is neither a scumtell, nor a towntell; so it's a nulltell. It depends on who is being bandwagon'ed, who is on the competing bandwagon, and what the reasons are for pushing the lynch.

Talitha on the other hand believes that pushing hard for a lynch is a town tell. I disagreed.

I am voting for OGML for many reasons, some further reasons having occurred after my vote. I'm not voting for him because he pushed hard on M_K. I'm voting for him because as we were lynching a scumbag, he kept trying to keep the M_K wagon alive and kicking, but then, last minute, decided to switch to Santos. We don't know M_K's alignment, but the wagon was, in my opinion, wholly unconvincing. OGML's rabid attempts to get the town back on the M_K wagon were out of proportion with the M_K scumtells, and the ease with which OGML switched to the Santos wagon, when Santos' lynch looked inevitable, was unsettling.

Other reasons include his strategic lurking, followed by a wide-blanket OGMUS baseless scumlist with nearly half the players, and some manipulative gambit to try to get me to turn my attention to Flameaxe. It's all very weird, and it certainly isn't town.

Note that, following his massive OMGUS, he's back to being lurkish. Popping up to tell me to look more closely at Flameaxe is the scumcherry on the scumsundae.

[DrippingGoofball]

Ponzu is a sauce?

[DrippingGoofball]

EBWOP:

Also, Ive had a Ponzu sushi before.
It was quite unpleasant...

I hear it's addictive.

[DrippingGoofball]

Are you two trying to find reasons for my role to be mafia?

The addictive sauce mafia? Hahahahah I have to remember that for the next Food Fight game...

[DrippingGoofball]

It might count. It might also be the lynching vote..., several people have voted for OGML since he was on 6 votes a few pages back. We really need a vote count.

What is your opinion on this terminal wagon, Talitha? I would have expected you to comment on OGML's claim, his defense, lack thereof, etc. As in, hammer, or state that you don't want to vote against OGML for some reason or another.

[DrippingGoofball]

And for those of you who seem to be intimating that I am literally calling every single person I named scum, I know you're all smarter than that. No there aren't 11 scum in this game, those are the people I'm suspicious of.

I get that, but it's still casting a wide net of suspicion over many players. And now you've added sirdanilot to the long list.

I'd be more confident that you might be town had you made actual cases against sirdanilot and RBT. Looks to me like lazy scum maximizing confusion while going down in flames...

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, have you paid attention to anything I've posted? My opinions on the wagon haven't changed. I haven't seen anything scummy or lynch-worthy from OGML. I think the case against him is rubbish. I am sorta resigned to the lynch but I will not support it. If he turns out to be scum I will be surprised (but not amazed as I've been wrong on occasion).

Fair enough. Can you then explain why Azhrei (and the other person you voted for today) are MORE scummy than OGML? I'd like comparisons.

[DrippingGoofball]

I made myself pretty clear already, but I'll humour you.
Day 1: (1)Bandwagoner, follower, (2)voting on the easy-looking lynches, (3)simplistic conditional suspicions (e.g. "if X flips Y, I'm going to Z") that demonstrate lack of townish diligence, and fit best a scum looking to cruise.
Day 2: Again on the easy wagon du jour. Reasons for voting OGML - the "turnaround" appear hypocritical, seeing as Azhrei did the same turnaround. The difference given is that OGML was pushing harder for the M-K lynch before the turnaround, but pushing hard for a lynch is something that town have much more reason than scum to do, and it is a weak reason to vote someone.

1, 2 - OGML did these as well, towards the end. No reason to suspect ogml

at all

[...] but still I am appalled at how you can say that OGML has dropped no scumtells at all, and I still don't see at all how you can find Azhrei more scummy than OGML.

Thank you, you said it better than me. I asked Talitha to compare Azhrei with OGML, because I wanted to understand why she's finding Azhrei scummy, and OMGL town enough to staunchly withhold her vote today, when we are getting hotly close to deadline.

[DrippingGoofball]

talitha why?

Anything but OGML?

[DrippingGoofball]

We are dangerously close to a no-lynch. Talitha's voting is especially perplexing.

[DrippingGoofball]

Somebody just lynch me already. I'm going V/LA for the next few days as it is, and its not worth arguing when your lynch is foreordained.

Ask Talitha.

[DrippingGoofball]

Talitha's vote doesn't surprise me at all. She truly thinks that OGML isn't scum, so I guess she was voting for the next best lynch, Pear Bear.

Which may result in no-lynch.

[DrippingGoofball]

And DGB go find someone else to hassle relentlessly. I can't see any point in getting into a back and forth with you. Arguing over things that we obviously just disagree on is less than helpful to the town.

Alright, I'll pick on CounselWolf tomorrow then.

[DrippingGoofball]

FTR, although I don't understand Talitha's thinking, I think most players would agree that she's one of the towniest players in the game.

[DrippingGoofball]

Talitha might have investigated OGML and got an innocent...

[DrippingGoofball]

Does this sound like a guilty result?

I'm really busy at the moment but wanted to check in to raise an eyebrow at the OGML votes. Haven't played with him before but my gut says town so far.

Oh and

vote: flameaxe

Maybe just a placeholder until I can assess some of the other voteworthy candidates. Maybe not.

[DrippingGoofball]

Since Talitha's a confirmed, dead townie, I would say that there may now be increased merit in her case against Azhrei. I'll take a closer look tomorrow.

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh. Well, I find it more likely that she scanned Az guilty than scanning OGML innocent.

Well OGML behaved in a way that made him a prime investigation target for the cop. So I'm going to venture that Talitha, being a clever player and all, investigated the scummiest player on Day 1, which was, hands down, OGML.

I'm also going to guess that, having a innocent result on OGML, she scanned down her list of suspects for the next scummiest player. And there she found Flameaxe and Azhrei.

[DrippingGoofball]

Premise: Talitha was the COP.
Premise: Talitha found Azhrei and Flameaxe SCUMMY.
Conclusion: We should look very closely at Azhrei and Flameaxe since they are now SUSPICIOUS.

I agree; I don't think she had a guilty on Azhrei or Flameaxe, because she spent her investigation on OGML.

[DrippingGoofball]

I was just looking at Flameaxe's posts, in isolation. He's lurking massively. The two players that tried to draw attention to Flameaxe weren't bus'ing, which was in the back of my mind, they were both townies.

And no one else brought up Flameaxe. Maybe as it turns out, his buddies don't mind Flameaxe's lurking.

Let's rattle the scum's cage:

vote: Flameaxe

[DrippingGoofball]

I do in fact think that she has either investigated Azhrei or Flameaxe. I find it personally rather unlikely for her to have investigated OGML because she never mentioned him as a suspect day 1. Why would she investigate someone she didn't suspect in the slightest? I just don't see why she would.

Hmmm, I didn't consider that possibility.

[DrippingGoofball]

Also note that Talitha was a knife cop, is this different than a regular cop, or does the prefix indicate the type of mafia she could find?

That's a very astute observation. It may be why she was under the impression that we may have two scum factions. On the other hand, OGML also thought we may have two scum factions, and he had no reason to believe that.

[DrippingGoofball]

Slicey's case is most excellent.

I anxiously await Pear Bear's response.

[DrippingGoofball]

Hey zwet, this is your third post, and you haven't claimed scum yet. Are you OK?

[DrippingGoofball]

I actually haven't gotten my role PM yet.

Of all the players on this site, you're the one who least needs a PM to start playing - and claiming.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm waiting for a couple of games to end... and I'm totally nominating you for a title.

[DrippingGoofball]

Vanilla sushi, yum, sounds really authentic.

[DrippingGoofball]

What's wrong with vanilla sushi?

I bet pregnant women crave it.

[DrippingGoofball]

I read Pear Bear's post three times, because (1) quote tag failure, haha, and (2) I've never quite seen anything quite like it before.

If I coldly look at the content, it's scummy as hell.

But if I try to get down to what Pear Bear may actually be thinking and whether or not he's honest about it, I'm thinking that he genuinely means what he says, but we're programmed to interpret that sort of discourse as scummy.

So a couple of questions for Pear Bear.

Who would you consider voting for today?

In particular, since you brought him up, do you think Flameaxe is scum? If so, what does your gut tell you and why.

[DrippingGoofball]

I have no idea. ;=)

zwet is a one-man Worst Role Idea mafia game.

[DrippingGoofball]

Good luck with that, I guess.

For the players that haven't seen this kind of reaction before, let me enlighten you.

That's what scum sounds like when it's caught, and gives up without a fight.

[DrippingGoofball]

Purposefully not defending himself = death miller jester?

Not, just Flameaxe scum. Nice role, though. I'll keep it in mind when I get around to modding a game.

[DrippingGoofball]

Does Flameaxe always lurk like this?

Not like this - he's spotty, but usually aggressive.

[DrippingGoofball]

Vote: Flameaxe

I like wagons with shitty, unreasonable reasoning reasonable too! Can we lynch him already?

Where is your record of reasonable reasoning in this game, before you chastise the rest of us?

[DrippingGoofball]

Also,

FoS: RBT

for just popping in and placing a quick vote on Flameaxe.

RBT's reasons for voting Flameaxe are far better than Flameaxe's reasons for voting himself.

Why aren't you FOS'ing Flameaxe, haha.

[DrippingGoofball]

No really, a claim would be nice.

[DrippingGoofball]

...Flameaxe lynch based on his claim was like an FoS. >_>

I know... but you were asking for it, haha.

His refusal to claim is, shall we say, jesterrific.

[DrippingGoofball]

Has Flameaxe ever acted like this in any game where he was town?

I don't recall ever having seen him act that way, ever.

[DrippingGoofball]

What's with the jester talk DGB? I don't really see a need for it.

I don't think he's a Jester, if he were a Jester, he'd be dead Day 1. His behavior is jesterrific. There's a nuance...

[DrippingGoofball]

Also, since Flameaxe isn't claiming, I'd say he's ripe for the hammer.

[DrippingGoofball]

MOD PROD: Setanta, hp [leaves], Jebus, serenity2, Microphone_Kirby

[DrippingGoofball]

Struck out what shouldn't be. I highly doubt that Talitha checked out Flameaxe (Yesterday was a strong feeling, Today there's no doubt).
To me, the entire lynch was simply a lurker lynch... and a very unnecessarily speedy one.
Granted, Flameaxe Voting for himself and being uncooperative didn't help him in the least. Still... I don't like the speed of it at all.

Ah, come on! This was the first wagon of the day, and when does the first wagon ever get to a lynch? Er, when a player has a complete meltdown and refuses to claim? That's no lurker lynch. He had posted very little until we ran up some votes, so yeah, I think everyone was pretty inclined to pressure him to talk because without that, we'd never have a clue whether or not he's scum. And what does he do? Instead of contributing more, posting analysis, giving his insights on who people's alignment, he refuses to claim, self-votes, and says he hates everyone. You couldn't sound more like caught scum than Flameaxe, and frankly, I'm really mad at him for signing up for a game, and not actually playing it.

You know who's really suspicious? The players that were around and did NOT vote for such a scummy player. No one in their right mind would have thought Flameaxe was town after he flatly refused to claim...

[DrippingGoofball]

What I find most surprising is that list of players that did NOT vote for a player that refused to claim AND self-voted.

WHY DIDN'T THESE PLAYERS VOTE?
Microphone_Kirby - I'm not liking his condemnation of a very justified wagon, coming in on a high horse. Like Flameaxe gave any clues about being a townie. Were you around, M_K???
zwet - seriously, I think zwet was around to vote. Why didn't he?

PLAYERS THAT DIDN'T SEEM TO BE AROUND:
hp [leaves] - didn't seem to be around. Not posting a lot, but I'm getting an honest town vibe from his posts. Should post more.
raider8169
Narsis
Pear Bear
Jebus - Jebus has flaked out of another game.
serenity2 - where is that replacement player???
minineko - looks like he wasn't even reading.

[DrippingGoofball]

I want an answer from zwet. Why didn't he vote against Flameaxe?

[DrippingGoofball]

You are mistaken, DGB. I wasn't around to vote.

If you weren't around you're excused.

But in my humble opinion, Flameaxe's late flailing looked more like a townie giving up than scum calling emotional pleas.

You have 20/20 hindsight, don't you? He wouldn't claim. He wouldn't even claim vanilla. In a speed game.

@ Slicey - I'd be surprised if Talitha had investigated Azhrei. It would have been an odd choice. So I think it's very low probability that she'd have investigated Azhrey and gotten a guilty scan. In addition, going by memory, I don't recall Azhrei being that scummy, personally.

[DrippingGoofball]

to be honest i find myself agreeing with MK. the Flameaxe lynch was too fast in my opinion. granted he did nothing to help himself or deter us from lynching and i probably would have voted him myself had i been around...but i absolutely hate quick lynches.

I don't like quicklynches any more than you do, but when a player does the ultimate scum move of refusing to claim, or even explain why he might want to refuse to claim, what are we going to do, talk about the weather until deadline?

In other news, I'm liking Slicey more and more.

[DrippingGoofball]

... Seriously, how about trying to finding targets for "tomorrow's" lynch with that extra time? Maybe someone would slip up during the discussion, and those people would be a good point of focus for "tomorrow"...

if

they're not better candidates for the lynch "today".

Oh great, let's have every player list the names of who they want to lynch the next day, so that the scum can nightkill the townie that's the most up to their shenanigans.

[DrippingGoofball]

To me, the entire lynch was simply a lurker lynch... and a very unnecessarily speedy one.

Pro-town platitude.

That sentence is a gem. This was NOT a lurker lynch. Flameaxe was literally posting every five minutes to remind us that he was refusing to claim.

NOT a lurker lynch. Sorry.

[DrippingGoofball]

On other news, during the first night Green Crayons killed. If I am not mistaken GC didnt draw any attention to himself the first day. I forgot about this until now but looking at GC is isolation the only person who threatened him was MK. Other then that he seemed really townie.

You should read OGML's case on M_K, actually. Knowing that OGML's was town, and after seeing M_K's post today, it's difficult to imagine M_K being town at all.

I'd like to hear opinions from our replacements and lurkers.

[DrippingGoofball]

There's too much reacting to what happened last night and what people posted today. We need to go back and start looking at voting patterns now. I don't have time to do that right now, but I might on the weekend.

Normally that's a good idea but we have a lot of lurkers, and their non-votes or sticky votes are uninterpretable.

@ hp [leaves] - Any more to say??? Please share your thoughts.

[DrippingGoofball]

We need to hear more from:

22. serenity2 (Hybris)
9. Minineko (alvinz95)
12. hp [leaves]
21. Jebus

They need to post something clear and decisive. And they all need to VOTE before this day is over.

Mod Prod
serenity2, Minineko, hp [leaves], Jebus

[DrippingGoofball]

Enter WIFOM craplogic stage right...

Hahaha, it may be wearing seven layers of spackle and makeup, you can still recognize it from the balcony seats!

[DrippingGoofball]

Why I didn't give my opinions before Flameaxe's lynch:

none of your business

.

M_K lynch sequence: LAUNCHED

vote: Microphone_Kirby

[DrippingGoofball]

There can be jesters in this game, right?

That was Flameaxe, haha, he was a Jester Town Death Miller, hahahahhahaha.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm getting the feeling that MK is pretending to be like Flameaxe to push us into a WIFOM situation of "Don't speedlynch the guy! Look what happened yesterday!"

I was going to post something along those lines, now I'm reduced to posting a simple "I agree with zwet."

[DrippingGoofball]

^^^^^^^
This is a townie speaking.

[DrippingGoofball]

Well I looked at sirdanilot and there's isn't much there except really getting into the spirit of the 'lynch du jour.'

[DrippingGoofball]

:goodposting: by Narsis

Looking at Pear Bear's posts in isolation, I get the following portrait.

Admits to lurking:

Just lurking over here as my random vote on MK seems to have been a bit more than just random...

More admissions of lurking, and worrying about what people think rather than finding scum:

I was hesitant to post because my random vote for MK seemed to have been a decent pick in the first place, and I was assessing what everyone else was thinking to determine if I wanted to keep my vote on MK or not.

Strange thing to say:

I understand that

I'm looking realllllly scummy right now

.[...]

Strange thing to say:

Ive made a newb mistake that could potentially end up killing me, and hurting the town.

Strange thing to say:

I was also extremely surprised that I wasnt on Plums list of suspects

as he was the only person to vote me yesterday and now

I look 1000x scummier than then

.

Strange thing to say:

And finally, I don't fully comprehend the hasty flameaxe voting...

THE BIG ONE:

Does scum know the identity of other scum in this game?

More weirdness:

Hypothetical question for a pro-town mafia vet:

If someone (town or scum) were to do something really obvious and scummy, and another player takes the bait, believes the lie and thinks the person who did the scummy thing is obviously pro-town (or so they say) should that player be looked at as suspicious? or just stupid?

This may or may not pertain to this specific game.

Weird:

...my mindset during that entire day was to keep informed and follow the majority because most of you know much better than me what youre doing.

Unusual, though perhaps understandable for a newb:
Well if a townie was rolefishing to determine if someone had a pro-town role then that townie would be able to defend and cooperate with that player, right?
That was my thought process.

Plum was attacking Pear Bear, and several players declared that they felt Plum was town. Plum was killed Night 3.

Plum, [...] I think you're very likely town.

This will be very interesting later on if OGML flips scum. I already suspect plum for a few fallable reasons, one of them being that whenever someone votes against me, and I am town, they automatically jump into my line of sight as potential scum, because theyre voting to lynch town. Also, in nearly every mafia game Ive played, those players who you think are "likely town" and do the best job at looking the part of a townie, end up being scum. And Plum is doing a great job at looking pro-town.

vote OGML

for the time being.

ANOTHER BIG ONE:

If there were two scum groups, how likely would it be that they know eachothers identities?
I would think that if they were aware of each other it would defeat the purpose of seperating them.

THIS ONE LEFT ME SPEECHLESS, BUT NOW I'M THINKING HE WAS BOASTING HIS SCUM CREDENTIALS TO HIS UNKNOWN BUDDIES:

If we lynch another town, would we still have a chance of winning?
Because I'm fairly certain

scum is intentionally keeping me around

because I'm
A) Not helpful to the town.
B) A scapegoat to draw attention to when one of them is getting lynched.

Through the course of this game Ive suspected Flameaxe, Talitha and Plum, all turned out to be town. And I wasnt convinced Santos was scum, and I ended up being wrong.

After this exercise, I have to reconsider my earlier opinion of Pear Bear. There are several posts in there where he seems to be telegraphing something to his (possibly unknown) scumbuddies in broad daylight. Twice he brought up mafiates not knowing each other before we had a chance to even be able to guess at such things, and he keeps bringing up how scummy he is. At first it just seemed strange, but now I believe that he was saying this to avoid being nightkilled by his buddies.

vote: Pear Bear

[DrippingGoofball]

I think you're misinterpreting the kills. My guess about the knife cop is that we have pro-town power roles that use knives, such as a chef (an inventor variant).

Why have the kills targeted the townies players?

Why a Knife COP, if the Knife Killer(s) is(are) townie(s)?

I don't subscribe to your theory that the kills are from the town, and I find your suggestion of such, suspect.

[DrippingGoofball]

It's certainly possible, but I don't really see how you've drawn this as a

likely

conclusion from the facts of the game so far

Multiple allusions to it, by pear Bear, perhaps?

[DrippingGoofball]

I suppose so. The other thing that doesn't make sense is how can a mafia group that can't kill even win?

Good question. But that does seem to be what is happening, until such time as we see a kill from Precooked Sushi, maybe Salmonella poisoning, haha.

[DrippingGoofball]

BTW, I'm saying that there's only one mafia faction, but that there are pro-town powerroles that use knives.

Do you think thaE we needed a COP to find knife-yielding TOWNIES??? Like, a cop that finds a VIG??????

A cop gets a GUILTY or an INNOCENT.

Otherwise it's not a COP.

Talitha was a COP. Not a metal-sharpness detector. A COP.

[DrippingGoofball]

How will Pear Bear's lynch help us information-wise?

I believe, from the messages Pear Bear seems to be telegraphing in broad daylight, that he belongs to a scum group that doesn't know who their buddies are. If he's Precooked Mafia, then we know that we have to look for Precooked mafia trying to feel for each other in broad daylight, or, if he belongs to a still-prospective Knife Mafia, we'll know there's another Mafia, and that's the one for which we must look for 'feelers.' Definitely a different set of scumtells.

[DrippingGoofball]

Well, his play has been really weird which seems to indicate that he's not normal Mafia. At least, that's what some of the other players have been saying.

What do you think of my post #781?

[DrippingGoofball]

Knife cop more than likely would indicate whether or not a certain player had a knife or not. Other than that, I have no idea.

And a player with a knife, for whom a COP would get a GUILTY result would be of what alignment???

[DrippingGoofball]

Variable. It's not a normal cop role.

You do realize that you are making speculation favoring a very low-probability occurance.

First, you don't know whether Talitha's role was not 'normal.' If it wasn't 'normal' it may have a sanity issue. But I guarantee you she was not in search of a TOWNIE 'vig' as you are suggesting.

Second, very often, when you have two mafias, each mafia will have its own cop. I've seen that a lot.

A cop that gets a 'guilty' on a vig - NEVER.

Are you going to continue to stick with that untenable theory, zwet?

[DrippingGoofball]

I've seen the role Knife Cop before, dgb. I'm not pulling this out of thin air.

Show me.

[DrippingGoofball]

If your so intent on proving me wrong, go find it yourself.

The onus of proof is on the person that makes the claim.

If I were to find 'it' - I'd be proving you right, not wrong.

But you KNOW where that famed example is, and I don't. So go look for it, and show us the link. I'm sure everyone is interested.

[DrippingGoofball]

EBWOP, I believe the expression is:

The BURDEN of proof lies with the party that makes the claim.

[DrippingGoofball]

No.

How can you expect someone to take it seriously if you cant show proof?

You have to decode zwet. He just admitted that he's full of hot air.

[DrippingGoofball]

No, it just means that I'm pissed off that you're so close-minded that you can't just take an argument at face value without getting a research paper about it. You haven't even thought about it.

I did, and rejected it as ridiculous. You're the one that's tunneling on something extremely improbable.

You're lucky I think you're town otherwise. I'd be all over you for the lynch.

[DrippingGoofball]

HOW IS IT RIDICULOUS??

I'll let other players answer that.

[DrippingGoofball]

Why? Because you don't have an answer?

I've already answered several times, it's getting tiresome. Maybe someone else will have the talent to get through to you.

[DrippingGoofball]

Zwet is town fer shure.

Let's not get ourselves distracted from Pear Bear.

[DrippingGoofball]

Trying to avoid a mislynch, eh scumbag?

He's voting for his second choice?

[DrippingGoofball]

Go on... you have specifics or anything, or do you expect me to automatically know what you're thinking about?

zwet has been like that alot today. I am not sure what to make of it.

I suspect substance abuse.

[DrippingGoofball]

Is that the dilated pupil smiley?

[DrippingGoofball]

That's all?

This is the point where we put more votes on you until you claim.

[DrippingGoofball]

Thanks for replacing BTW.

[DrippingGoofball]

You claimed townie?

[DrippingGoofball]

PRUFT

I'm so glad I clicked on the game thread, to find out what new exciting post was made to propel the game forward.

[DrippingGoofball]

AK... Hm. I'm not sure what to think of you, PB, I'm convinced is scum, but you having replaced him makes me unsure. Grr.

Is it that PB asked for replacement that makes you unsure, or AK's contribution? If it's AK's contribution, please list AK's posts and explain their effect on your diminishing certainty.

[DrippingGoofball]

EBWOP: We know they do already, actually. Santos said he had a fakeclaim. So yeah, massclaim would be terrible.

Good catch.

Can we go back to lynching PearBear/AK?

[DrippingGoofball]

AK has 'claimed townie' and gone.

I'd like to have his suspicion list on hand though, in case we're wrong, we can still learn from his insight.

[DrippingGoofball]

I support the extension.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm interpreting AK's lame participation as demoralized scum. Vote stays.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm interpreting AK's

lame participation

as demoralized scum. Vote stays.

??

What would you do in a given situation where you take over a townie role that's been played like shit?

You read the game, and analyze other players. Give your opinion. That way, after you're dead, if you're town, we'll trust your judgment more. Also, it's a positive contribution, and that's what townies do.

If you're scum, though, you can self-vote and make it go faster.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB I don't really get your point.. Are you accusing me of acting scummy, and at the same time doing pro-town actions?

No, I'm trying to give you more chances to gauge your alignment. I suggested that you you your impression of every currently living player for starters.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm waiting, too.

And this is a speed game.

tap Tap tap tap Tap tap tap tap

[DrippingGoofball]

Pear Bear + AK = scum²

[DrippingGoofball]

What the hell are you smoking?

I noticed a clear tendency for zwet's post to deteriorate over the course of each evening. The posts get crazier and crazier, and useless-er and useless-er.

He's definitely posting under the influence of

something

. Or maybe he's seven and it gets way past his bedtime.

[DrippingGoofball]

I won't consider unvoting AK until I see his evaluation of the players in the game. It's clear from Santos that the mafia has safeclaims.

[DrippingGoofball]

No one adds votes on AK until his homework is done.

[DrippingGoofball]

AK may be wrong about my alignment (I'm sure he'll be satisfied with my answers if he has questions for me), but I no longer think he's scum. Considering that he's new into the game, and how scummy we all agree that Pear Bear was, he's remarkably level-headed and cool - and he's not in 'giving up' mode, either, which is in his favor. I too noticed his contradiction, but that's not exactly the type of contradiction that screams 'scum' to me. He could have made it as town or scum. It's a total null tell and FOS anyone that tries to push the issue.

With this I firmly

unvote

[DrippingGoofball]

I've already voiced my opinions. But to be honest, I'm really not so sure about an AK lynch anymore. I was convinced PB was scum, but with AK, I'm really not sure.

Those are my thoughts exactly.

[DrippingGoofball]

A Jebus lynch would be preferable to an AK lynch.

vote: Jebus

[DrippingGoofball]

Just went back attempting to catch up.
Look at Azhrei, he has been opportunistic follower for most of the game. What does that mean?

But so has DGB kinda. >_>

I've been a follower? You don't believe that.

[DrippingGoofball]

Eh...kinda like getting people to follow you. >_>

Is anyone coming up with better cases? The cases were good cases. But sometimes, the best cases turn out to be wrong cases.

[DrippingGoofball]

And again, I have to be pushy, 'cuz everyone is so lazy:

Reminder that deadline is approximately 48hrs away. Majority is required for lynch.

[DrippingGoofball]

That means deadline is tomorrow at suppertime, EST.

[DrippingGoofball]

The will to lynch AK has eroded. We're on deadline, there's only about 24 hours left. Lurking in a speed game = scummy. You have lurked rather heavily, and offered scant content.

To show up and neglect to vote is equivalent to voting 'no lynch' and I can't speak for the players that recently joined your wagon, but I certainly can see a justification for a player to show up now, and vote for the wagon leader because we're so short on time, that we risk lynching no one.

Your failure to claim at -2 in a speed game with 24 hours to go to is noted.