Martyr Mafia - Game Over

[DrippingGoofball]

I did a re-read, and came up with this partial list:

Players that are NOT god:

Jahudo
Silver Phoenix
zachattack
Jebus
X

Players that may be god:

pacman
ortolan

[DrippingGoofball]

well, in this case it's Jebus' uncharacteristic self-righteousness in comparison ti my knowledge of his meta.

ORLY

[ortolan]

yes...

[DrippingGoofball]

yes...

Describe Jebus' meta.

[mask man]

How do you tell the difference DGB?
When a response is TOO town,
how town is too town? When the player

clearly

is making an effort to seem town, which jebus was doing.
He wasn't just having a normal townie reaction, he was making that statement for the sole purpose of looking town(which a towns member wouldn't do) and if he is scum, to redirect attention at the God claimer(which wasn't really needed because obv attention will be shifted like that, as it was, because we got scum reactions and later looked back at it.). If he toned the "WTF DUN U CLAIM GAWDZ0R" down to a "dude, wtf?" or something, it wouldn't be like this.

[DrippingGoofball]

How do you tell the difference DGB?
When a response is TOO town,
how town is too town? When the player

clearly

is making an effort to seem town, which jebus was doing.
He wasn't just having a normal townie reaction, he was making that statement for the sole purpose of looking town(which a towns member wouldn't do) and if he is scum, to redirect attention at the God claimer(which wasn't really needed because obv attention will be shifted like that, as it was, because we got scum reactions and later looked back at it.). If he toned the "WTF DUN U CLAIM GAWDZ0R" down to a "dude, wtf?" or something, it wouldn't be like this.

I know that's what you're SAYING, but you're still not explaining how you can tell 'genuine townie' from 'too townie,' in a way that I can use the rule in future games.

Please.

Give us a formula to distinguish 'genuine townie' from 'too townie'

Are you suggesting that if Jebus would have said 'dude wtf' that would have been OK? So what is it? A genuine townie should have used more acronyms? More vernacular? Fewer words? Sounded dumber? Using complete words is too townie and makes you scum?

[DrippingGoofball]

OK enough sarcasm.

I wouldn't be shocked if Jebus was scum, and being bus'ed by maskman and ortolan. The reasons they invoke are way too bogus to come from townies. I smell Greyhound bus exhaust.

[DrippingGoofball]

Now reading the roles with more care (since we don't have a standard mafia, actually), we have a scum group made up of cult leaders that are trying to protect god.

But knowing what I know from observing scum teams for literally years, I'd say it's money in the bank that the cult leaders have already distanced themselves from god.

[DrippingGoofball]

And I'm seeing, plain as the sun, distancing from Jebus.

unvote, vote: Jebus

[SilverPhoenix]

No, I think he is not really town because he is giving a cliched in the extreme "townie" response

How do you distinguish a genuine townie response from a cliché townie response?

How do you distinguish a cliché townie response from an extreme cliché townie response?

How do you distinguish an extreme cliché response made by a townie, from one made by a scumbag?

How do you tell the difference DGB?
When a response is TOO town,
how town is too town? When the player clearly is making an effort to seem town, which jebus was doing.
He wasn't just having a normal townie reaction, he was making that statement for the sole purpose of looking town(which a towns member wouldn't do) and if he is scum, to redirect attention at the God claimer(which wasn't really needed because obv attention will be shifted like that, as it was, because we got scum reactions and later looked back at it.). If he toned the "WTF DUN U CLAIM GAWDZ0R" down to a "dude, wtf?" or something, it wouldn't be like this.

Question: Why does this matter? Why are we looking at people acting "too town" and not scummy? Focus people.

FoS: mask man

Looking back at Jebus' posts, I don't find as much wrong with them as before. Most of them are just clairification posts like "Care to share?", "Please explain this to me." etc. etc. What I don't get that as the starter of the Zakeri wagon, he said it was mostly OMGUS.

So I have to ask the people on the Zakeri wagon: did you have legitimate reasons to vote Zakeri aside from just joining the wagon?

Obvscum of what variety? We only want to lynch one out of the seven scum.

Prob cult recruit IMO.

mykonian stop digging your grave and trying to derail the town.

Hrm.....need to look at myko's posts then.
...I'll get back to you about that one. I wouldn't say he's derailing the town, but other than that, I'm not 100% on his reasoning. Nevertheless, your statement is pretty strong without much evidence.

I never withdrew my attack on zach.

His initial laziness is still bugging me, because a vote like that might, in better places, be interpreted as opportunistic. And if a connection is implicated from one side why are you implying that I should only suspect one half of the implied pair?

In response, I only have to say that you did.

Deflecting off Zakeri. Zakeri is a possible God; hell, she's the top nominee for that.

Wait, wait, I'm cult leader, right? Then it makes sense to deflect off God, right? (/endsarcasm) WIFOM arguments are not really arguments, but are "what if..." games that don't help the finding of Godscum.
While throwing around suspicion in normal games makes sense to see reactions, there wasn't only one scum in those games that we are trying to find out of

twenty

. Why the excessive finger-pointing, BloodMoney?

Vote: BloodMoney

(purely as pressure and to unvote Jebus for the time-being)

[zwetschenwasser]

And I'm seeing, plain as the sun, distancing from Jebus.

unvote, vote: Jebus

No opportunism here.

[mask man]

How do you tell the difference DGB?
When a response is TOO town,
how town is too town? When the player

clearly

is making an effort to seem town, which jebus was doing.
He wasn't just having a normal townie reaction, he was making that statement for the sole purpose of looking town(which a towns member wouldn't do) and if he is scum, to redirect attention at the God claimer(which wasn't really needed because obv attention will be shifted like that, as it was, because we got scum reactions and later looked back at it.). If he toned the "WTF DUN U CLAIM GAWDZ0R" down to a "dude, wtf?" or something, it wouldn't be like this.

I know that's what you're SAYING, but you're still not explaining how you can tell 'genuine townie' from 'too townie,' in a way that I can use the rule in future games.

Please.

Give us a formula to distinguish 'genuine townie' from 'too townie'

Are you suggesting that if Jebus would have said 'dude wtf' that would have been OK? So what is it? A genuine townie should have used more acronyms? More vernacular? Fewer words? Sounded dumber? Using complete words is too townie and makes you scum?

Town: A simple statement that is not over exaggerated(jebus doesn't have this one, for the most part.). When it is a reaction, it should NOT be looking like an attempt simply to seem like a townie.

Scum: In the statement, there is a very clear and underlined meaning other then itself, and that is to look like a towns person. Townies(for the most part; newbs can change this around) don't need to purposely look town, and do not need even make an effort other then playing to seem town. Unlike jebus who was TRYING to look town with that post,

bottom line it was just a reaction that people don't like because it looks like jebus is TRYING TOO HARD TO SEEM(not being) TOWNIE.


@ SilverPhoenix, please note I was defending Ortolan with a new found power, "Common Logix" and we aren't the only one on jebus for that reason.

Speaking of, this, along with the old stuff...

Vote: Jebus

[SilverPhoenix]

How do you tell the difference DGB?
When a response is TOO town,
how town is too town? When the player

clearly

is making an effort to seem town, which jebus was doing.
He wasn't just having a normal townie reaction, he was making that statement for the sole purpose of looking town(which a towns member wouldn't do) and if he is scum, to redirect attention at the God claimer(which wasn't really needed because obv attention will be shifted like that, as it was, because we got scum reactions and later looked back at it.). If he toned the "WTF DUN U CLAIM GAWDZ0R" down to a "dude, wtf?" or something, it wouldn't be like this.

I know that's what you're SAYING, but you're still not explaining how you can tell 'genuine townie' from 'too townie,' in a way that I can use the rule in future games.

Please.

Give us a formula to distinguish 'genuine townie' from 'too townie'

Are you suggesting that if Jebus would have said 'dude wtf' that would have been OK? So what is it? A genuine townie should have used more acronyms? More vernacular? Fewer words? Sounded dumber? Using complete words is too townie and makes you scum?

Town: A simple statement that is not over exaggerated(jebus doesn't have this one, for the most part.). When it is a reaction, it should NOT be looking like an attempt simply to seem like a townie.

Scum: In the statement, there is a very clear and underlined meaning other then itself, and that is to look like a towns person. Townies(for the most part; newbs can change this around) don't need to purposely look town, and do not need even make an effort other then playing to seem town. Unlike jebus who was TRYING to look town with that post,

Speaking of, this, along with the old stuff...

Vote: Jebus

/shakes head
You're going to have to be more specific than that if you don't want me screaming Too Townie at you and how your argument is fallacious. Tell me

what

statements were persuasive and I'll be willing to play ball, because right now I don't have a problem with Jebus' statements at all (as I stated in my previous post).

@ SilverPhoenix, please note I was defending Ortolan with a new found power, "Common Logix" and we aren't the only one on jebus for that reason.

Huh?

Seriously, I don't know what you mean by this. I'm questioning people on the

Zakeri

wagon, not the

Jebus

wagon.

[DrippingGoofball]

/shakes head
You're going to have to be more specific than that if you don't want me screaming Too Townie at you and how your argument is fallacious. Tell me

what

statements were persuasive and I'll be willing to play ball, because right now I don't have a problem with Jebus' statements at all (as I stated in my previous post).

Calm down. It's clear that Jebus is being bus'ed. Jebus' statement was perfectly fine and innocuous. However, his buddies want to distance themselves from Jebus by making totally bogus cases. I'm helping them along with my vote.

[mask man]

Seriously, I don't know what you mean by this. I'm questioning people on the

Zakeri

wagon, not the

Jebus

wagon.

Oh, that kinda changes the comment up >_>
You mean Zakeri and not zwet right? I'm getting em mixed up

[Jebus]

This wagon on me is total bull.

Zwet

- the one line wonder, as I've said before. Try posting comprehensively in more than one sentence, please.

DGB

- By your own logic, it seems that you, too, are bussing. Your stated reason for voting me and your saying the wagon on me is totally bogus just seem weird when put together.

ort

- I'll hold off on this one for right now.

mask man

- Who says I was trying to look town? I really want to see how this setup will pan out, zwet claiming God obviously ruins that. And aside from that, I'm no newb. Excuse the WIFOM here, but it must be said: I wouldn't do something as stupid as you make it out to be.

Semi-offtopic: I like how the number here fits the number of main scum. 3 CL's, and on God. Heh.

[DrippingGoofball]

ort

- I'll hold off on this one for right now.

And why is that?

[Jahudo]

Frustrated would be correct.
Will say more when I get a good chunk of time.

Do you have the time to go into detail about this?

And pacman continues to lurk. I'm telling you folks. pacman is God. I caught him.

Pacman needs to talk because if he’s not scum he’s proving that scum can hide under the radar.

unvote, vote Jebus

Qwints’s last 3 posts have been vote changes and no explanation of his own although the last quoted ortolan’s reasons. Apart from that he had 1 post where he actually gave sentences but they were theory and speculation. So far he is looking like opportunistic scum but I’d expect this more from a recruit because it doesn’t show the responsibility of being in charge of your own win condition that keeps you from being a one dimensional player.

how town is too town? When the player clearly is making an effort to seem town, which jebus was doing.
…which wasn't really needed because obv attention will be shifted like that…
…If he toned the "WTF DUN U CLAIM GAWDZ0R" down to a "dude, wtf?" or something, it wouldn't be like this.

I understand what you are saying about scum wanting to appear townie, but making an effort to be town is only scummy to me if they’re also not playing pro-town. If zwet ends up getting lynched on any day, I think part of the case against him will inevitably be his joking-not-contributing posts. So it is in the interest of the town to not give scum more chances to inflate a zwet case if he’s town. So I still don’t mind his reaction to zwet’s God claim.

So I have to ask the people on the Zakeri wagon: did you have legitimate reasons to vote Zakeri aside from just joining the wagon?

One reason for me was in feeling that he didn’t have a tactic when he switched back to random voting but after he did, he said he had a tactic. I’m still waiting to hear more about this tactic because he’s been quiet about it. His recent inactivity is making my vote feel comfortable.

Calm down. It's clear that Jebus is being bus'ed. Jebus' statement was perfectly fine and innocuous. However, his buddies want to distance themselves from Jebus by making totally bogus cases. I'm helping them along with my vote.

Do you have any reason apart from being distanced to think Jebus is scum?

[Bloodmoney]

DGB is striking me as being too DGB. While I find myself agreeing with her I have a strange feeling concerning her (stranger than usual at least). I'm slightly scared at the idea that DGB might be God.

So I have to ask the people on the Zakeri wagon: did you have legitimate reasons to vote Zakeri aside from just joining the wagon?

I dunno. Would you consider a healthy suspicion of Zakeri being God a legitimate reason? Seriously. The cases have already been made. If you find plotholes, feel free to point them out, but if you're interested in looking at the cases again go dig them up yourself instead of delegating.

I never withdrew my attack on zach.

His initial laziness is still bugging me, because a vote like that might, in better places, be interpreted as opportunistic. And if a connection is implicated from one side why are you implying that I should only suspect one half of the implied pair?

In response, I only have to say that you did.

QUOTE ME.

Wait, wait, I'm cult leader, right? Then it makes sense to deflect off God, right? (/endsarcasm)

Um yes. Sarcasm or not what you say is correct.

You must protect him, or everything is lost.

Your point with the sarcasm tags?

While throwing around suspicion in normal games makes sense to see reactions, there wasn't only one scum in those games that we are trying to find out of twenty. Why the excessive finger-pointing, BloodMoney?

Vote: BloodMoney

(purely as pressure and to unvote Jebus for the time-being)

Why wouldn't you want to see reactions in this particular game? Don't you want the cult leaders accidentally slipping info on who your God is? Of course, the question is rhetorical, considering you are a cult leader.

Also, you realize this vote makes no sense whatsoever, don't you? Even if you had basis for it (which "excessive fingerpointing" isn't), simply by stating the "pressure vote" nature of it you rob it of any purpose it would otherwise have had; because now I know that you wouldn't have the guts to go through with lynching me.

And I'm seeing, plain as the sun, distancing from Jebus.

unvote, vote: Jebus

No opportunism here.

:goodposting:

SilverPhoenix, please note I was defending Ortolan

Oh? Why was that? To the best of my knowledge ortolan has a voice of his own. Need your recruit/leader alive?

I believe I've said this before, but I would like this to be entirely clear: DO NOT PLAY TO AN EXPECTED WIN CONDITION. I see too many people doing just that. In the here and now, every agnostic's duty should be to find God and preferably today, while we're in majority. So move your lazy asses and stop lurking and being scummy already.

[DrippingGoofball]

Calm down. It's clear that Jebus is being bus'ed. Jebus' statement was perfectly fine and innocuous. However, his buddies want to distance themselves from Jebus by making totally bogus cases. I'm helping them along with my vote.

Do you have any reason apart from being distanced to think Jebus is scum?

NO. Sometimes it's not enough to play a good game if your buddies give you away.

[SilverPhoenix]

Why wouldn't you want to see reactions in this particular game? Don't you want the cult leaders accidentally slipping info on who your God is? Of course, the question is rhetorical, considering you are a cult leader.

You aren't reaction-mining, you are being belligerent. Two very different things. The point is you aren't doing any convincing of your findings, but simply moving on to get angry at others. Which makes me question why you did it in the first place.

Oh? Why was that? To the best of my knowledge ortolan has a voice of his own. Need your recruit/leader alive?

An honest mixup turned into a cult leader-recruit relationship? One aptitude of belligerent people is finding conflict where there is none. Another is finding connections where there isn't any, as in the case of me and zach.

QUOTE ME.

Ok, thank you. You could do that next time without me having to cuss at you.

Also, you realize this vote makes no sense whatsoever, don't you? Even if you had basis for it (which "excessive fingerpointing" isn't), simply by stating the "pressure vote" nature of it you rob it of any purpose it would otherwise have had; because now I know that you wouldn't have the guts to go through with lynching me.

I'm not making a case against you, I am simply defending myself. You made an accusation way back when and I'm doing my best to convince you otherwise of your faulty logic. I never said you were God/Cult/Scum/whatever and I never said I wanted to lynch you. It has nothing to do with guts because I don't think you are God, but a horribly misguided agnostic. And I don't want to lynch agnostics, but to educate them.

Also, actually stating that you think I don't have the guts to lynch you is a very big mistake on your part, because not only are you belligerent, but you are cocky and think you're invincible. You don't win as town by standing out like that. There is someone like you in every game I play and

almost

every time they make a bad decision with consequences against the town. I'm simply tired of seeing such self-destructive behavior.

[mykonian]

/shakes head
You're going to have to be more specific than that if you don't want me screaming Too Townie at you and how your argument is fallacious. Tell me

what

statements were persuasive and I'll be willing to play ball, because right now I don't have a problem with Jebus' statements at all (as I stated in my previous post).

Calm down. It's clear that Jebus is being bus'ed. Jebus' statement was perfectly fine and innocuous. However, his buddies want to distance themselves from Jebus by making totally bogus cases. I'm helping them along with my vote.

God wouldn't be bussed, would he.

Plus that I agree with mask man. The too towny fallacy is it work here too.

DGB is striking me as being too DGB. While I find myself agreeing with her I have a strange feeling concerning her (stranger than usual at least). I'm slightly scared at the idea that DGB might be God.

I don't like this statement. "Hi I'm god, DGB is obvious town, and cought cult leader/attacks town and I want to look town.

I believe I've said this before, but I would like this to be entirely clear: DO NOT PLAY TO AN EXPECTED WIN CONDITION. I see too many people doing just that. In the here and now, every agnostic's duty should be to find God and preferably today, while we're in majority. So move your lazy asses and stop lurking and being scummy already.

I didn't see it, but I agree with this statement.

In short: I don't see where all the action around Jebus comes from. I don't like it. Zwet is suspicious but the way he acts (like a fool) is more like a lightning protector. I see him as culted.

Jebus is town in my eyes, and the way people reacted on him reinforces me in that idea.

[DrippingGoofball]

God wouldn't be bussed, would he.

From experience. He would be bus'ed big time. On day one. Right out of the garage.

[zachattack]

If god gets bussed everyone who bussed him would lose. It's an enormous gamble for all the cultists to gang up on god, then get the bandwagon to turn somewhere else before he gets lynched, just so that when they are revealed as cult people will say this guy voted for so and so, so and so can't be god. Especially since the cults don't talk to each other. I think the cults would be more focused on their win condition of getting rid of the other cults, and not worrying about the 1 in 20 chance we could hit god. Unless god is one of the people who has several votes on them already.

[zwetschenwasser]

My vote is not bogus. I got a WTF overreaction for my clearly untrue God claim. Jebus is bad.