[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Empking]

Bump

1 Ninja + 1 Scum Tracker + 1 Scum Watcher

3 Trackers
3 Watchers

[Empking]

Shouldn't you edit that into the set up itself?

[Empking]

C'mon we need to nominate set ups.

[Empking]

Is there a non +2 version?

[Empking]

Who's the Cop? C9

2 Mafia
1 Death Miller Cop
1 Bodyguard
5 townies

Nominate and then nominate again.

[Empking]

Bird C9 - Empking Style

2 Mafia

1 Macho Cop
1 Doc
5 Townies

[Empking]

~~~

Nominate Carbon 14

2 Mafia Goons or Werewolves
1 Cop (Only gets guilty on Mafia Goon)
1 Seer (Only gets guilty on Werewolf)
3 Townies
?

Second

- This set-up is the win.

[Empking]

Who's the Cop? C9

2 Mafia
1 Death Miller Cop
1 Bodyguard
5 townies

This great set up got lost.

[Empking]

Gunsmith

2 Mafia

1 SK (Kills with a spoon.)

2 Cops (only see Mafia)
2 Gunsmiths
1 of Cop or Gunsmith who doesn't carry a gun.

[Empking]

Gunsmith

2 Mafia

1 SK (Kills with a spoon.)

2 Cops (only see Mafia)
2 Gunsmiths
1 of Cop or Gunsmith who doesn't carry a gun.

The mafia claim cop, and hope they don't get caught by the real cops. Probably devolves to a counterclaim situation.

The SK claims gunsmith and tries to guess who the real gunsmiths are so he doesn't out himself by his role.

Nobody actually scumhunts.

If all mafia claim cop and the SK claims gun smith then they'll just round it and find the scum. I don't think that's what scum would do.

Trojan: If mafia is killed day 1 then the game is basically random and as such very boring. Even if their's two mafia going into night 1 the game doesn't have a high enough Scum:Town ratio to be interesting.

[Empking]

Hehe. Even less chance for town than standard 2-10 mountainous, since it's a night start.

then 2:11?

So 2:10 only a player isn't allowed to play?

[Empking]

I'm thinking for the next round of games to sign up for to do

Carbon 14

again. I found the game well balance and many enjoyed playing (well except those killed early.)
Discussion on the game is welcomed.

Good Posting.

[Empking]

2 Scum
1 Cult
6 Townies

is imbalanced towards cult so I can't see this set up being balanced.

[Empking]

I think AC9 should have a name relating to the Odds/Even game its obviously based on.(I aslso think its worse that Odds/Evens)

Vengeful without the Vengeful

2 Scum

1 Twilight Vig
2 Townies
Nightless

Twilight Vig PMs the mod during twilight and can kill even if lynched that day.

[Empking]

Newbie with enabler

2 Mafia

1 Doc
1 Cop
1 Cop Enabler
2 Townies

[Empking]

Do The people who go in the newbie queue like big set ups?

I don't think they do.

[Empking]

Newbie with enabler

2 Mafia

1 Doc
1 Cop
1 Cop Enabler
2 Townies

Have the cop claim Day 1, massclaim Day 2, and it would be

very

difficult for the scum to ever win.

Scum are allowed to counter claim.

[Empking]

Newbie with enabler

2 Mafia

1 Doc
1 Cop
1 Cop Enabler - Told he's a townie
2 Townies

[Empking]

Oh. Hmmm. Guess I got my set-ups confused.

I realize that Death Miller is not a popular role but it's a way(an extreme way) of discouraging follow-the cop.

F11 of Death Metal

1 Death Miller Cop
1 Doctor
2 Mafia Goons
5 Villagers

It'd be better with three townies.

Arson in Wolf Wood

1 Arsonist
2 Wolves

1 Seer
1 Firefighter
3 Townies

[Empking]

NK-Immune Miller Vig

2 Mafia

1 Cop
1 NK-Immune Miller Vig (Loses powers after N1)
1 Fake NK-Immune Miller Vig (Told he's a NK-Immune Miller Vig but isn't.)

[Empking]

Nominate: Lovers Mafa

Why shouldn't the vig shoot?

NK-Immune Miller Vig V.2

2 Mafia

1 Cop
1 NK-Immune Miller Vig (Loses powers after N1)
1 Fake NK-Immune Miller Vig who is also a back-up for the real NK-Immune Miller Vig(Told he's a NK-Immune Miller Vig but isn't.)

[Empking]

Why shouldn't the vig shoot?

because the in case the mafia is lynched, and he misvig's, the game is over. Situation doesn't change if he doesn't shoot, only that there are 2 more talking about the lynch.

NK-Immune Miller Vig V.2

2 Mafia

1 Cop
1 NK-Immune Miller Vig (Loses powers after N1)
1 Fake NK-Immune Miller Vig who is also a back-up for the real NK-Immune Miller Vig(Told he's a NK-Immune Miller Vig but isn't.)

doesn't change: this is biased towards mafia, and by a lot. town wins 25% of the times with copclaim.

without copclaim. Assuming mafia isn't lynch day 1 (that is hard to do.), then town wins only 1/9 of the times.

What makes you think cop claims the best?

How can it be certain that the mafa won't be lynched day 1 without making it clear that they're scum?

[Empking]

Can you explain how you get 1/9, I don't get it.

[Empking]

I think I'll help you out empking

Disgrace to NK-Imune Miller Vigs

2 Mafia Outlaws
1 Cop
5 Vanillas
1 NK Imune Death Miller vig

Second

- Was the Death part on purpose?

Oman 6P

1 Cop
3 Vanillas
1 NK Imune Miller Vig
1 NK Imune Framer SK
(Can Frame and Kill Each night. He Auto wins if only him and vig are alive)

Its not normal due to not having a mafia group. (sad face)

8-Player Lyncher

2 Mafia

1 Lyncher

1 Cop (Maia only)
0-1 Doc
3-4 Townies

If lynchee is NK'd, lyncher (if still alive) becomes town.

Lynchee can be any player other than the lyncher

[Empking]

TJWAOT: I still think its broken the same way as normal Texas is, it just means that it goes to a three man end game.

Actually, what is town's win percentage if they just attack the person below them? Or the odds of it going into a three man end game?

[Empking]

^^ I like that one, very very simple too

mafia have 0.4 odds of winning, town 0.6 by random lynching

that's not that unbalanced compared to other standard setups is it?
?

No, that's horribly imbalanced.

Nominate: Yos's & Gurgi's 4P

1 SK with RB that can be used in addition to kill
1 Vigilante
2 Townies

Open, day Start, compulsory lynches.

[Empking]

If town has higher than 50% win chance, that's horribly imbalanced. I'd say if they have 45-50 its imbalanced.

Yeah, I just realized that b

Withdraw Nomination

[Empking]

To answer your first question. Only if there is only two factions.

If town has higher than 50% then they can random play and more likely than not win.

If scum have 60% chance to win then town can do something about it. If town does scum can't.

[Empking]

Mith: If perfect scum lose more often than they win, that game is broken.

[Empking]

Do you mean I don't know what "broken" means in the context of mafia or just in general.

I use it (and my quick search seems to agree with me) as something (such as a group or role) that if you're not it and you're opponent is you'll lose.

[Empking]

Emp, what mith is saying is a set up is broken when an optimized preset strategy exixst that doesn't involve playing mafia.

Mith is wrong.

Mith's definition is stupid as any game could be played in a way that's not mafia. So every game is broken. So I was right.

[Empking]

If Mith is right then the Texas Justice method isn't broken because its random instead of scum hunting, right?

[Empking]

Sera: So every game is broken because there is always an optimum way of winning.

[Empking]

Sera: Just because we don't know the strategy (and by "we", I mean you and I, I'm pretty sure Mith knows it) doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Thok: That's still worse that scum hunting.

I was responding to Sera's definition. Where was "boring and not mafia"?

[Empking]

Second: SSF Nightless

Not normal.

[Empking]

Bird 7p?

Second

[Empking]

Normal 4P

2 Mafia

2 Double Voters

[Empking]

Vote counts only count people voting.

[Empking]

Or you could just y'know not have a weird number of votes needed to lynch.

[Empking]

Or you could just y'know not have a weird number of votes needed to lynch.

that doesn't fix anything, in fact it makes it far easier for scum.

But the game you're doing is balanced towards town, so balancing it closer to scum is a good thing.

[Empking]

Or you could just y'know not have a weird number of votes needed to lynch.

that doesn't fix anything, in fact it makes it far easier for scum.

But the game you're doing is balanced towards town, so balancing it closer to scum is a good thing.

How is a game where a single townie misvote = loss "balanced closer to scum?"

Because if a single townie misvotes then scum can win?

[Empking]

Angelic

1 angel
2 goons
7-9? townies

The angel is told the alignments of all players, cannot post in thread, and does not exist for all practical purposes; except, each night, the angel selects one townie to protect from a kill. The mafia are told who the angel selected before they submit their kill.

Not really sure about the balance here, but I think it's cute. Odds on the town needs more than 7 townies because vanilla, idk.

Is the fact that if they get a lucky first day, each player can give a name, the angel protects the player ho picked scum and then the killed player's player is cleared a problem.)

(Does that even make sense?)

[Empking]

Green Modding Guide

Mafia:

1 GF
1 RB

Town:
1 Cop
1 Doc
1 Vig
3 Townies

[Empking]

50%?

2 Lovers Mafia

2 Masons
2 Townies

Night Start

[Empking]

50%? V.2

2 Mafia Lovers
2 Masons
1 Vengeful Townie

[Empking]

The First Part of your breaking strategy: Scum could also claim scum. That's not a problem with the set up.
The second part: This doesn't increase the town's odds of winning.

[Empking]

The First Part of your breaking strategy: Scum could also claim scum. That's not a problem with the set up.
The second part: This doesn't increase the town's odds of winning.

That's true. But masons will have to claim, since lynching a mason = a town loss. And if masons claim, then scum counterclaim, and again, it is down to a single player to actually play.

If masons claiming leads to masons getting lynched then it ruins your reasoning for masons claiming.

[Empking]

I agree with Korts' point- while strictly speaking it does have a 50% expected win percentage for both town and scum, it is just a bad/boring setup regardless.

Its only boring when you try (and fail) to break it.

[Empking]

The setup is really just: one judge with two pairs trying to convince this judge to lynch the other.

Only if you play suboptimally.

[Empking]

only if who plays suboptimally? it is optimal play for the scum to force this situation to begin with.

What game?

[Empking]

I meant your game

If scum do an action that everyone knows is bad for the town, I doubt they won't be lynched.

[Empking]

I meant your game

If scum do an action that everyone knows is bad for the town, I doubt they won't be lynched.

But it is optimal play for the town for the masons to claim, since accidentally lynching them would be an instant scum win.

No it isn't.

They Claim - 50% random and unincreasable
They don't claim - 50% random and can be increased by good play.

Do you honestly think the first is better?

(Also, your plan (unless I'm mistaken) is to increase the odds of the masons being accidently lynched to stop them from being accidently lynched. Which is just silly.)

[Empking]

The First Part of your breaking strategy: Scum could also claim scum. That's not a problem with the set up.
The second part: This doesn't increase the town's odds of winning.

That's true. But masons will have to claim, since lynching a mason = a town loss. And if masons claim, then scum counterclaim, and again, it is down to a single player to actually play.

If masons claiming leads to masons getting lynched then it ruins your reasoning for masons claiming.

Um, masons

not

claiming is what may lead to masons getting lynched, while masons claiming turns the game into a single player's decision. It is a game without any fun.

So mason claiming leads to masons not getting lynched?

[Empking]

The First Part of your breaking strategy: Scum could also claim scum. That's not a problem with the set up.
The second part: This doesn't increase the town's odds of winning.

That's true. But masons will have to claim, since lynching a mason = a town loss. And if masons claim, then scum counterclaim, and again, it is down to a single player to actually play.

If masons claiming leads to masons getting lynched then it ruins your reasoning for masons claiming.

Um, masons

not

claiming is what may lead to masons getting lynched, while masons claiming turns the game into a single player's decision. It is a game without any fun.

So mason claiming leads to masons not getting lynched?

No, masons claiming leads to there being two pairs of masons being claimed, leaving the vengeful townie to decide.

Why do the masons claim?

Adel: Lovers, roll 1d6 then let the 1d6er roll a dice to work out who the next to lynches are. Is Lovers broken?

[Empking]

Empking: the masons claim because if they don't, they are lynch candidates--and a mason lynch is an instant loss for town.

They Claim: So they won't be lynched.
When they claim: The odds of one of them getting lynched goes up by 10%.

Am I getting this right?

[Empking]

Empking: the masons claim because if they don't, they are lynch candidates--and a mason lynch is an instant loss for town.

They Claim: So they won't be lynched.
When they claim: The odds of one of them getting lynched goes up by 10%.

Am I getting this right?

No. Neither the real masons nor the claimed masons will be getting lynched, the vengeful townie will.

So the confirmed town is lynched. Why?

And does it increase the town's odds to bertter than 50%?

[Empking]

Empking: the masons claim because if they don't, they are lynch candidates--and a mason lynch is an instant loss for town.

They Claim: So they won't be lynched.
When they claim: The odds of one of them getting lynched goes up by 10%.

Am I getting this right?

No. Neither the real masons nor the claimed masons will be getting lynched, the vengeful townie will.

So the confirmed town is lynched. Why?

And does it increase the town's odds to bertter than 50%?

or the two masons will vote a scum player, and the two scum will vote for a mason, and the V. townie will hammer.

So the masons claim in order to not get lynched by increasing their odds of getting lynched?

It doesn't make any difference

-- either way the V. has to choose between two identical groups with no informational or motivational difference between them.

Yes, the town is punished for poor play. Why is that bad?

[Empking]

So the masons claim in order to not get lynched by increasing their odds of getting lynched?

They aren't increasing their odds of getting lynched unless I'm missing something big.

Adel said the VT hammers.

1/5 = 20%
1/4 = 25%

[Empking]

It doesn't make any difference

-- either way the V. has to choose between two identical groups with no informational or motivational difference between them.

Yes, the town is punished for poor play. Why is that bad?

There would be no difference between poor play and good play on the townie's part, because the two groups he has to choose between are functionally identical. Nothing he does will possibly increase his odds of choosing correctly above 50%.

They are not functionally identical.

The mafia knows who the town and the mafia are. The masons do not.

[Empking]

The mafia know that one of the other three is the townie, and the other two are masons, but not which is which. The masons know that one of the other three is the townie, and the other two are mafia, but not which is which. What's the difference?

The townie and mason have the same win con, the mafias and townie don't.

[Empking]

I agree with CES, (see basically communism mafia)

Simple Sanity Issues

3 Mafia (One Role Blocker)

1 Cop (50% Sane, 50% Insane)
8 Town

So Pie only a lot worse for the town?

[Empking]

Empking, it's basically Strawberry Mafia (Remove the Vanilla that was going to be there but I copied from another set-up)

Which is a simple proven set-up, it just adds a layer of texture and doubt and prevents clearing some roles within 2 days, and prevents everyone being cleared in endgame

So its strawberry but even worse for the town?

(Yeah, its definitely not Pie.)

[Empking]

If the cop doesn't get three nights worth of investigations he's a lot worse.

[Empking]

Cake E9

1 RBer
1 Goon

1 Tracker
1 Watcher
5 Townies

Needlessly Complicated

2 Mafia - RB instead of NK - Wins at 50% or 1 M, 1 T, 1 SK going into the day.

1 SK

1 Cop
3 Townies

[Empking]

Cake E9

1 RBer
1 Goon

1 Tracker
1 Watcher
5 Townies

Tracker claims and town wins

How so?

(Scum can do nothing and get 2:5 which isn't bad.)

[Empking]

Cake E9

1 RBer
1 Goon

1 Tracker
1 Watcher
5 Townies

Tracker claims and town wins

How so?

(Scum can do nothing and get 2:5 which isn't bad.)

Tracker claims and the watcher watches him that night. That means that the mafia can't kill or block the tracker without outing themselves. See?

I'm still not seeing what's so bad about that.

[Empking]

I'm still not seeing what's so bad about that.

...
Town have a confirmed power-role that can lead the town and can't die until the watcher does.

Town leaders (unless they're Glork or something) aren't good for the town.

Plus Tracker claim then NL gives town 33%(?) if scum kill the tracker.

Myk: You're wrong as scum won't kill the Tracker/Cop in either case.

Charter: It can't be better than a cop.

[Empking]

You're caught up too much in percentages and stats.

A confirmed town power-role IS good for the town and even more so that scum can't even touch him without sacrificing themselves.

And if they do sacrifise themselves (presuming a no lynch day one) they'll almost surely win.

In this setup, tracker is basically the same as the cop since he only gets results on scum and the watcher.

Apart from since the Tracker has neutralized the watcher one of them can be a godfather.

And he'll know he has the watcher once it shows that the person has visited him.

True.

[Empking]

How in the hell do they win if they kill themselves? And there's a GF??

Can someone else please explain this to him

I never said kill themselves, I said "sacrifice"

No there's not a GF but in this set up a mafia that doesn't take actions is as good as a GF.

[Empking]

How in the hell do they win if they kill themselves? And there's a GF??

Can someone else please explain this to him

I never said kill themselves, I said "sacrifice"

Well if they attack the tracker they are as good as dead.

And end up with a 2/3 chance of winning.

No there's not a GF but in this set up a mafia that doesn't take actions is as good as a GF.

lol yeah but then THE MAFIA CAN'T KILL

If they want GF-ess for both but if they just want it for one they just don't have to role block.

Charter: How powerful is a tracker compared to a doc?

[Empking]

Cake E9 V.2

1 Goon
1 RB

1 Reporter
1 Watcher
5 Townies

[Empking]

Cult F11

2 Mafia

50% 1 Cult

1 Vig
1 RB if neither/both Cult + Cop
50% 1 Cop
3-6 Vanilla Townies

[Empking]

Secret Word:
A word is chosen by the mod. If any players say it any time during the game, they will be modkilled at the end of the day, to ensure the word isn't given away.
-Only way to kill mafia is by lynches.
-Mafia know word, the rest of town do not. They are still modkilled if they say it.
Large set-up, lots of players. No nights?

OH FFFFF YES

NOMINATED

OR WHATEVER WE DO TO MAKE THINGS HAPPEN

Is it normal? If it is:

Second

[Empking]

actually, after previous game, it seems that polygamist can be a bit more favored for town.

Really?

With more players it seems like there would be more room to neither defend or bus your entire scum team.

[Empking]

Cult Texas Mafia

1 NK-Immune Cult Leader

11 Vigs

Vigs lose power when culted.

[Empking]

Pie X4 +2

1 Busdriver
1 Goon

1 Cop
1 Doc
5 Townies

[Empking]

1-shot C9

2 Mafiosi

1 from: 1-shot Cop (Sane), Townie (50% chance of each)
1 from: 1-shot Doc (Sane), Townie (50% chance of each)
3 Townies

Daystart.

So its worse for the town than normal scum-favored C9?

Nominate: Original 1-Shot C9 (that isn't really C9)

[Empking]

Pretty sure guaranteeing the one shots makes this very difficult for scum to win if cop claims immediately day one.

Do town lnch day onev in your mind?

[Empking]

Guilty OR alive

COP HEADSTART
2 mafia
5 Townies
1 Cop- sanity confirmed

And there's a 50/50 chance of the following options:
an un-nightkillable Survivor (scum can win with the Survivor alive, town cannot).
OR
an additional townie that's a miller (they are not told) and one member of the mafia is investigation-immune.


Now here's an interesting scenario: if there's a survivor, scum do not want to lynch the survivor, and yet town

does

. Then this adds WIFOM as to whether there's a survivor or not. At the same time,

if

there's a survivor, scum has to try to find

who

it is, so that they don't waste their night kill, and so that they don't lynch them.

Questions and problems:

1) Should mafia be told WHO the survivor is?
2) Should I change it so that town can win with the survivor? I didn't want to do this, because then survivor could easily claim, and then the cop will know hir results are reliable.
3) Can you think of a better name?

Just make him a NK-able traitor who doesn't count towards victory condition for scum.

[Empking]

Guilty OR alive

COP HEADSTART
2 mafia
5 Townies
1 Cop- sanity confirmed

And there's a 50/50 chance of the following options:
an un-nightkillable Survivor (scum can win with the Survivor alive, town cannot).
OR
an additional townie that's a miller (they are not told) and one member of the mafia is investigation-immune.


Now here's an interesting scenario: if there's a survivor, scum do not want to lynch the survivor, and yet town

does

. Then this adds WIFOM as to whether there's a survivor or not. At the same time,

if

there's a survivor, scum has to try to find

who

it is, so that they don't waste their night kill, and so that they don't lynch them.

Questions and problems:

1) Should mafia be told WHO the survivor is?
2) Should I change it so that town can win with the survivor? I didn't want to do this, because then survivor could easily claim, and then the cop will know hir results are reliable.
3) Can you think of a better name?

Just make him a NK-able traitor who doesn't count towards victory condition for scum.

1) No- then you basically have three mafia in a 7 person game.

8

[Empking]

Normal Not Normal Dethy

2 Scum
4 Day Cops (Naive, Paranoid, Insane, Sane)

Nightless

[Empking]

Cowardly Mafia

2 Bulletproof Mafiosi
1 Compulsive Vigilante
9 Townies
Daystart

Whilst the Vigilante is alive, the Mafia can't kill but can roleblock (the ability is shared like a regular nightkill). When the Vigilante dies they can kill again but can't block (not that they'd want to). In other words the Vig functions as a public Cop of sorts whilst alive (but people can be 'framed' by the blocking) and the game is a regular 2v10 once the Vig dies. Not sure if this situation is normal though.

At first I didn't see the bulletproof and was going to go on a rant about how broken this was.

I like this setup; however, I think this will happen day 1.

Vig claims
1)if not-counterclaimed, then have him be alive as a confirmed townie the whole game and never lynch him. Then it becomes a game of 10:2 nightless with a confirmed townie.
2)if counterclaimed, lynch both people and the game becomes a 1:9 or a 1:7 game.

Can this be prevented?

What if the scum had the abilities to kill and roleblock from the start?

Yeah, its a good set up with that idea.

[Empking]

Cowardly Mafia v4

2 Bulletproof Mafiosi
1 Compulsive Vigilante
9 Townies

The Mafiosi have a shared Bus Drive ability rather than a nightkill, but gain a nightkill ability on the night after the Compulsive Vigilante dies.

I nominated this, I want someone to second this.

Second

Nominate: Ort's DR

[Empking]

Nominate: CM5

[Empking]

Reaction which is Delayed

3 Mafia (win scorched Earth)

9 Townies

Each night the mafia can either plant a bomb or sacrifice a member to blow up th bombs.

[Empking]

3 Mafia (win scorched Earth)

9 Townies

Each night the mafia can either plant a bomb or sacrifice a member to blow up th bombs.

No, this makes it much harder for mafia to win

and

impossible to win in a 1mafia 2townie scenario. (town just nolynches each turn).

It's more balanced as it was before.

How is it impossible to win in 1 mafia 2 townies?

[Empking]

Cult Basic

1 Cult

1 Recruitment Immune Townie
5 Townies

[Empking]

1 Ninja
1 Goon

1 Watcher
1 Tracker
3 Townies

[Empking]

Ninjas can't be Tracked or Watched, I assume?

Yeah.

[Empking]

Yes.

[Empking]

7 players is best players

1 Mafia Framer
1 Mafia Goon

1 Cop
1 Tracker
3 Townies

OR

2 Mafia Goons

1 Cop
4 Townies

[Empking]

7p Garlic

2 Mimes

1 SK

1 FBI Agent
1 Doctor
2 Vanilla Townies

[Empking]

no that won't work because if the person recruited gets clensed then it's a town auto win, all he has to do is claim that he was recruited

[Empking]

Are You Brave Enough?

50%

Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon

Doctor
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

50%

Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon

Doctor
Lover
Lover
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

(Doctor keeps lovers from committing suicide)

[Empking]

2 Mafia

1 Cop
1 Paranoid (1/3) or Naive (2/3) Cop
3 VTs

[Empking]

I have just created the greatest game ever* (Honestly)

Two Sane Voices

Nightless

2 Mafia Lovers

4 Townie Terrorists (Can't kill if killed first, just to clarify)

* Other than Carbon and T&S

[Empking]

Hi guys,

Any interesting developments in the last year or so?

With regards to open set ups I don't think there's been a single new one in the last year.

[Empking]

Actually, there are the twelve player games with a couple of roles. No new micro games though (http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=15402 & http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=15533)

[Empking]

Update: After consulting the ruinous powers of scumchat the scums kill is now odd night. This means that scum team is no longer able to instantly dogpile on the second a townie puts down their vote, now scum needs to still keep themselves concealed for D3.

Roles:
2 Goons with odd night kill
4 Vanilla Townies

Special rules:
If a vanilla townie would be lynched D1 instead a No Lynch occurs.

I think I'm missing sonmething here.
D1: Townie X is lynched but survives.
N1: Townie X is NK'd.
D2: Townie Y is quick lynched.
Town can no longer lynch scum. Scum wins.

Where am I going wrong?

[Empking]

Empking's No Lynching Town

2 Mafia
5 VTs

If town would lynch a VT they No Lynch instead

[Empking]

You forgot the D1 there

I did no such thing.

[Empking]

Nominate: At least one of the retalitory mountainious games

- I have to say that I find the 64.6% chance the best.

Carbon - 15

2 Mafia OR 2 Werewolves

5 Vanilla Townies

The players are split into three groups: Two Masons, Two Monks and Three Un-Afilliated. Masons are guaranteed no mafia, Monks are guaranteed no werewolves.

[Empking]

2 Goons

1 PGO
1 Jailkeeper
3 Townies

I'll

nominate

this.

[Empking]

2 Goons

1 PGO
1 Jailkeeper
3 Townies

I'll

nominate

this.

Awsome, but, why Goon over RB and what do you think of the PGO being unknown? I just realized that the PGO could claim day 1 and would be pretty much a confirmed townie.

The RB being used is bad play making the role just an annoyance to the set up.

If the PGO being confirmed is a big problem for you:

Empking's 7p Trap

2 Goons (Goons are told which set up is in play.)

1 Jailkeeper OR PGO
1 Jailkeeper
3 Townies

[Empking]

Empking's Superior Newbie

2/5 chance of

1 Roleblocker
1 Goon

1 Cop
1 Doc
5 Vanilla Townies

1/5 of either of the following:

2 Goons

1 Cop
6 Townies

OR

2 Goons

1 Doc
6 Townies

OR

1 Roleblocker
1 Goon

7 Townies

7P Confirmations Ahoy

2 Goons

1 Cop
1 Barber
3 Townies

[Empking]

What's a barber do?

Nothing. Its a VT with a unique name.

[Empking]

2:1:4

2 Werewolves

1 Un-NKable SK

1 Seer
3 Townies

[Empking]

2:1:4

2 Werewolves

1 Un-NKable SK

1 Seer
3 Townies

IDK about this.
Misslynch D1 and town NK by both Werewolf and SK and werewolves has won D2. Need more town roles.

What if Werewolves only win if they're the only faction rather than by endgaming? That way they would have to lynch the SK.

[Empking]

2:1:4

2 Werewolves

1 Un-NKable SK

1 Seer
3 Townies

IDK about this.
Misslynch D1 and town NK by both Werewolf and SK and werewolves has won D2. Need more town roles.

What if Werewolves only win if they're the only faction rather than by endgaming? That way they would have to lynch the SK.

Werewolfs would still control 50% of the votes if there is a mislynch D1 and just NK on town players. If either a townie/SK votes a non-werewolf, they could just wagon that vote and still win that game.

2 Wolves; 1 SK ; 1 Townie
Townie lynched: 2 Wolves, 1 SK
1 Werewolf: 1 SK
No Lynch: 1 Werewolf; 1 SK
1 SK

Serial Killer wins.

This discussion has made me think though so.

2:1:4 II

2 Werewolves

1 One-Shot Un-NKable SK

1 Seer
3 Townies

[Empking]

Selfish Psychopaths

- Functions as a normal SK, but can be cured. They can only claim that they are Restless Spirits.

Yeah but seriously this set up is neither intersting and nor is it going to get run or even intended to get run. Stop talking about it.

[Empking]

Scum 9p

2 Mafia (No Kill)
2 Werewolves

2 Seers
3 Townies

[Empking]

Why two seers?

1. So that if a mafiaso claims Seer they won't be counterclaimed (unless there is a dead seer already)
2. To weaken the wolves.

[Empking]

Makes alot of sense, Emp.
I mean, they could eat the wolves alive N1, but I get the point.

It feels odd without a RB, but yeah. :/

Andy, want to nominate it?

[Empking]

Who wins in the following:

1Maf : 1Ww

1Maf : 1T

I'd give the Mafia a "win if you make up 50% of the town" and the other two a "win if only your faction remains" so the Mafia would win both of those.

And have you calculated win probabilities?

[/quote]

No because I honestly have no idea how you'd go about doing it. Like how do the Mafia affect the chance of lynching a wolf?

Edit: I'd also be inclined to give the mafia the win if day begins with 1 Mafia:1 Wolf: 1 Townie or 2 Mafia: 2 Wolves: 1 Townie

[Empking]

Mafia winning 1:1 and 2:2 is fair.

As far as EV is concerned, it looks hard for the town to win. If the werewolves only kill town, the town can only win if the lynches are:
1. All scumlynches, in any order
2. Both werewolves on the first two days, then no more than one mislynch
3. A werewolf, then a mafia, then a werewolf, then a town, then a mafia

The town is quite powerful when it comes to taking out werewolves due to the two seers and (the way I see it) the mafia can work as a mini-mason group in order to reduce the wolves numbers (since its in their best interest to also scumhunt.)

[Empking]

Empking's Five Player

2 Mafia (Even- Night Kill)

1 One-Shot Publishing Cop (the cop's target has their alignment revealed in the end of night post.)
2 Vanilla Townies

(I calculate the town's chance of winning as 7/18)

[Empking]

Empking's Five Player

2 Mafia (Even- Night Kill)

1 One-Shot Publishing Cop (the cop's target has their alignment revealed in the end of night post.)
2 Vanilla Townies

(I calculate the town's chance of winning as 7/18)

Are both the target's name and alignment revealed?

Oh yeah, I wrote that wrong. The answer to your question is yes.

[Empking]

Empking's Five Player

2 Mafia (Even- Night Kill)

1 One-Shot Publishing Cop (the cop's target has their alignment revealed in the end of night post.)
2 Vanilla Townies

(I calculate the town's chance of winning as 7/18)

Are both the target's name and alignment revealed?

Oh yeah, I wrote that wrong. The answer to your question is yes.

Have the cop claim Day 1, and investigate a pre-determined target on Night 1. Scum can't counter-claim the cop, because any fake-claim would be refuted once the results show the following day.

I'm pretty sure its in the cop's best interest to stay hidden in order to avoid being night killed in order to turn 3p LyoL into a 50% shot.

Perhaps only the alignment of the cop's target should be revealed? Then scum could still counter-claim if necessary. I still think it would be best for the cop to claim Day 1 and then No Lynch, though, since that would mean that the cop at least gets his investigation in before he dies. A mislynch is going to mean a scum win whenever it happens, so it's not like a No Lynch on Day 1 "wastes" a lynch or anything.

Yeah, I presumed that the town would No Lynch Day One after a bit of discussion (its five players so you could probably get a feel of all the players pretty quickly even eithout the threat of an lynch.)

[Empking]

Does anybody have any problems with the set up? I feel that it's guaranteed two days of good talking and is 2.? days long so that's good. Its also not too dependent on luck or good play by the cop (though its better to have good play by the cop so it doesn't go too far the other way.) I know I'm biased but I'm really attached to this set up and think it works very well.

I really want to see this nominated so if there's anything anybody would reccomend me doing then I'm all ears.

[Empking]

Empking's Superior Vengeful

Nightless

1 Godfather (Town wins if he's lynched day 1)
1 Goon

3 Townies

If a townie is lynched Day 1 then they survive until the end of Day 2.

Town Win Rate: 2/5

Empking's Innocent

Nightless

1 Vengeful Mafia
1 Goon

1 Innocent Child
3 Townies

Win Rate: 2/5

Empking's Pseudo-Open

Nightless

1 Vengeful Mafia
1 Goon

1 Townie
1 Citizen
1 Villager
1 Villager/Townie/Citizen

Win Rate: 197/540

Empking's Smith

2 Mafia

1 Doc OR Gunsmith
1 Gunsmith OR Bladesmith
3 Townies

Empking's Protection

1 Mafia Hitman
1 Mafia Ninja

1 Watcher
1 Doc
3 Townies

Empking's Suicide

2 Mafia Lovers

4 Suicide Bombers

[Empking]

I've seen them used as the equivalent of gunsmiths for SKs and docs instead of mafia and cops. I guess that in Emp's setup, mafia have both? Or one has each?

Mafia do not have Knives in Empking's Smith. Essentially its a doc detector.

[Empking]

So gunsmiths would have guns I assume?

Yes.

[Empking]

Empking's Impotent

2 Mafia Goons

1 Compulsive Vig
1 Compulsive Blank Vig
1 Compulsive Roleblocker
2 Vanilla Townies

Empking's Death Miller[/b]

2 Mafia Goons

1 Death Miller One-Shot Cop
1 Cop
3 Townies

[Empking]

It'd only be a punishment if it was better of the town to lynch town than scum and it clearly isn't. Its not a punishment its a built in part of set up.

Also 2 Vengeful Goons + 5 Townies (Nightless) is the same as Empking's No Lynching Town. ENLT clearly doesn't punish the town. Also, the two of us must have completely different definitions of "broken".

Preview: Its a swingy clearly and it strikes me as possibly unfair to one group if they draw a Smith and the other draws a Doc. Working on the same principles though you could get this:

Empking's Smith v.3

2 Mafia Goons

1 Serial Killer + Roleblocker

1 Gunsmith OR Bladesmith
1 Gunsmith OR Doc
4 Townies

[Empking]

My definition of a broken role is a role that makes the game less fair or enjoyable.

I like the idea of an open game with a bunch of smiths, but it seems like mafia would be at a disadvantage if 2 gunsmiths were chosen.

If two gunsmiths are chosen then they have to be wary about claiming because there's a chance of a faslse guilty.

[Empking]

Shotty's Simple 6P Nightless

4 Townies

1 Godfather
1 Goon

If the godfather's power only kicks in Day 1 then this is balanced but in that case this set up is essentially a more dull and bigger vengeful. Providing that the GF is just Day 1 then this isn't a bad set up.

Shotty's Restless 5P

4 Restless Townies
1 Goon

Not Mafia

Shotty's Restless 7P

1 Restless Cop
4 Restless townies

2 Goons

I'm not sure of the balance but I doubt Restless is that powerful of a role to make up for the classical power of this set up.

[Empking]

Shotty's Simple 6P Nightless

4 Townies

1 Godfather
1 Goon

If the godfather's power only kicks in Day 1 then this is balanced but in that case this set up is essentially a more dull and bigger vengeful. Providing that the GF is just Day 1 then this isn't a bad set up.

It's not vengeful. A closer analogy would be Lovers mafia, which is what the setup would be if the goon was also a GF.

No Vengeful is the best analogy. Its vengeful but the second lynch is given by an extra townie rather than a vengeful.

If the GF applies every day, the town's EV is still less than 50%.

Yes but its too close to 50% (for the average numberv of days).

[Empking]

Empking's Brothel Mafia

2 Mafia Lovers

4 Roleblockers

[Empking]

^^ How would 2 mafia lovers work?

They're two Mafia Goons that die whenever the other also does so.

[Empking]

It'd probably be simpler to give the scum an (additional) night kill in the event of a No Lynch.

[Empking]

how is it unblalanced?

Is that a serious question?

(Actually, thinking about it I don't actually think there's a single balanced set up among those choices.)

[Empking]

Everyone of those set ups is scum favoured. Other than the first one (which is unbalanced due to the introduction of the Roleblocker) none of those games should have three scum.

[Empking]

Empking's Jester

2 Mafia

1 Jester

1 Vig
1 Doc
3 Townies

[Empking]

Do they explicitly end/not end the game in that setup?

If you're talking about mine. They'd end the game.

[Empking]

Empking's Jester

2 Mafia

1 Jester

1 Vig
1 Doc
3 Townies

Ooh, what if the Jester kills himself Night 2 if he hasn't been lynched by then? If you do that and add an extra townie to make 9 players, then the town will never lose their majority, unless if, of course, they actually lose the game to the mafia.

Of course, in this situation, lynches would have to be mandatory, at least on the first 2 days.

Brilliant

Empking's Jester

2 Mafia

1 Jester (Wins if the town no lynches while he's still alive. Dies night 2 if not already dead.)

1 Vig
1 Doc
4 Townies

[Empking]

The Neighbours claim day 1 and are the lynch for the first couple of days? (Until a goon is lynched.)

[Empking]

That would be dumb because by the time you lynch all three you have two mafia left and only 6 Town. That's a huge difference and the town is in a worse spot than the were to start with. Plus now you have no neighbors.

If scum suck so badly they had to kill all three neighbours then I'd argue that 2:6 is an enviable position for them.

[Empking]

If you manage to lynch the scum neihbour that you get three confirmed townies. That's not good.

[Empking]

Homage to Adel and Guardian

2 Mafia

2-4 Vigs
0-2 Townies

[Empking]

^^Mini texas justice?

Perhaps.

[Empking]

Empking's Newbie

2 Mafia

1 Cop OR Insane Cop
1 Doctor
3 Townies

[Empking]

I'm also not fond of having an insane cop in a newbie game; that would give newbies the impression that it's a standard role, when it really isn't.

Not an actual newbie set up.

[Empking]

What's a PBO? What's a Fisherman?

[Empking]

Almost certainly broken by mass claim.

[Empking]

Personally I'd change the Fisherman into VTs and strip the scum of their power roles.

[Empking]

How does stripping the mafia make mass claim any less effective?

It doesn't it just needs to happen if you get rid of the Fisherman for balance.

In a good open game (excluding certain varients (if it doesn't apply then its obvious) scum should be ablev to just claim VT.

In your original game if scum just claim VT then they will almost certainly lose (if they're going to win then SK will shoot for scum.)

In my proposed version the town has a much harder time due to the increased numbers of VTs.

Looking at your game further the PGO/PBO should probably change roles. They don't really work in open set ups.

[Empking]

Shotty's Double Doc
2 Goons

2 Cops
3 Townies

Docs can't protect each other.

It loooks pretty strongly scum favoured to me.

[Empking]

8p Lovers

3 Mafia Lovers

5 Townies

Nightless

[Empking]

8p Lovers

3 Mafia Lovers

5 Townies

Nightless

Chance of scum win:

5/8 * 4/7
20/56 = 35.7%

:X

Way too town-favored, I think.

6p Nightless has a 12/30 chance of victory. I think scum has good odds at winning that game.

[Empking]

Ultimate WIFOM

2 Mafia Goons
1 Innocent Child (Mod-confirmed town at the start of the game)
1 Watcher
3 Townies

Nominate

[Empking]

Question Everything

I'm not sure how balanced this is, but I like the central idea behind it. If anyone's got any suggestions, let me know.

Base setup is 3 Mafia, 10 Town.

There'll be four non-vanilla roles in the game:

1 Killing role (50% chance of that being a Town Vigilante, 50% chance of that being a Third-Party Serial Killer)
1 Watcher (50% chance of being Town, 50% chance of being Mafia)
1 Tracker (50% chance of being Town, 50% chance of being Mafia)
1 Roleblocker (50% chance of being Town, 50% chance of being Mafia)

Serial Killer, if present, is night-kill immune.

Obviously the gimmick is that you can't trust any of the roles, because there is an equal likelihood of them being either alignment.

Thoughts?

Excluding the killing role I'm not so sure people would "Question Everything" as much as "ignore claims when it comes to lynching people."

Preview Edit: Ha, I atually like the central roles being picked because they're pretty weak meaning there isn't a huge seperation between all the different possible set ups.

[Empking]

Would more powerful/invaluable roles make people be more questioning?

Probably, I'd be inclined to making the probabilities 3/4 & 1/4 instead though.

[Empking]

Who to Protect Mafia

2 Doctors
1 Iatrophobic Townie(If protected he kills the doctor)
2 Macho Townies
3 Vanilla Townies

1 RoleBlocker
1 Goon

Town has (at least) three lynches. The IT and MTs should claim which leads you with either three confirmed townies or a guaranteed scum lynch (with one confirmed townie.). I'm pretty sure that it's broken in favour of the town.

[Empking]

Empking, you stole my idea! And Tragedy is completely right. Not because it would really help mafia all that much, but a 3:9:1 with no town PRs would be a bitch to win.

I would say weight the killing role towards town, and the RB towards mafia. Any takers?

I would say have a random one of the four be anti-town (either SK or a mafia PR) instead.

That's a remarkebly different game because once one scum PR is killed the rest are confirmed (or the inverse) (and power roles can't bus one another.).

[Empking]

9p Cop Maker

2 Mafia Goons

2 Cop Makers (Turn other players into Cops (doesn't work on Cop Makers))
5 Vanilla Townies

[Empking]

I'm not sure how balanced it is but its important to note that there will be no investigations N1. If they lynch a townie D1 then its unlikely that more than one Cop will be recuited N1 (For each Cop recruitor they have 3/7 people that simply can't be (essentially) recruited and then you add in the other player's night actions.) I'm more worried about it being too scum favoured.

[Empking]

A 'Cop Maker' is like a Weak Doctor now. Except it makes people to becoming Cops.

And it doesn't protect people. (To be honest I agree than making it a Weak Cop Maker causes the set up to be too swingy.)

[Empking]

@Empking:
As it is, the cop-makee can confirm a claimed cop-maker based on the action.

I'm not so sure because scum could just get a lucky guess.

Also, goons could be told when they are targeted by a cop maker, so they aren't caught on that basis if they claim VT. You could reward them for being targeted with a rolecop.

Yeah I was planning on having them told. I feel that making the a Rolecop would bea not very useful added complication to the set up.

Will VT cop-makees flip as VT's or as cops?

I was thinking Cops.

[Empking]

At 2:5 it works much better because it's very friggin dangerous to

create 3 confirmed town in a 2:5 setup

. You'd commit suicide essentially. If you get a town lynch day 1, then choose 3 town day 2, you literally have a 2/3 chance of hitting scum on day 3 if you assume this to be true. With one dead scum, the other follows pretty fast.

However at 8:3, it's highly optimal to use it like a night kill early on. I think that it'll degenerate into mostly that, especially if the town realizes it's most likely killing a townie, and gets apathetic on even days.

If you do run it, shorten even days to 1 week.

Again, there are no confirmed townies in either game. I don't know why you keep trying to use that as a point.

If the game is scum favoured if scum aren't allowed to choose there own (and thus their picks are confirmed town) then its even more scum favoured if they can.

[Empking]

Also ironically if they lynch mafia day 1 they need one town lynch.

Town wins (I presume) once all the scum have been eliminated.

[Empking]

Also ironically if they lynch mafia day 1 they need one town lynch.

Town wins (I presume) once all the scum have been eliminated.

Jesters are scum

Not that I've seen the term used (I agree with your last paragraph BTW and I was worried it wouldn't be mafia before.)

[Empking]

Actually Crazy, I think that's probably too HIGH of a mafia win rate >.>

Really? I know that I consider the town's win con is in the right place and the same is true for the jester.

[Empking]

Actually Crazy, I think that's probably too HIGH of a mafia win rate >.>

Really? I know that I consider the town's win con is in the right place and the same is true for the jester.

Isn't it usually standard practice for mafia to have a lower WR than town, since mafia have an inherent advantage?

No. Not at all.

[Empking]

Ah, well. I still think Jester games should not be allowed in the open database, or for any game for that matter without explicit warning from the mod that there may be a jester in the game so people who dont want to play with one know to avoid the game.

Let say that day one in scum says "im the jester" in his first post. The jester counter claims. Boom setup broken. Town now has a 50-50 chance of winning the game and a 50-50 chance of losing the game. Zero skill involved from here on.

Er...no. You lynch a random non-jester claimant twice and then you lynch the scum.

[Empking]

Empking's Operation

2 Mafia Doctors (Don't get a kill)

3 Doctors
3 Townies

If an even number of "Doctors" target the same player then that player dies.

[Empking]

0 is an even number...

But is it a "number of "Doctors""?

Empking's Operation

2 Mafia Doctors (While both of them are alive they can't kill. An individual Doc has to choose between killing and protecting.)

2 Docs
2 Townies
2 VTs OR Docs (Each one is randomly decided independantly before the game.)

[Empking]

So is self-protecting allowed?

No.

[Empking]

chkflip, pretty sure your set-up is too swingy for a lot of people on this site to like it. Personally, I don't mind that, but it annoys most people here.

Plus Mass Claim

[Empking]

Add a couple more townies for balance.

[Empking]

@Emp: So, 13-player setup w/ 7 VTs?

Yeah.

[Empking]

Is there any reason to call the rola an FBI Agent?

[Empking]

I was planning on running this as my Mini Theme but I changed my mind. So here:

Elect-A-Cop

2 Mafia Goons

1 Gun Owner
6 Townies

Rather than lynching people the town instead elects a Cop.

XXX and YYY are the Mafia Goons. During the night you are able to talk to each other and as a group are able to perform one kill a night. You win when the town is no more or nothing can prevent the same.

You are the City's Only Hope. They scuttle around like ants voting for Cops while they allow the Mafia to go about their business. You refuse to allow this to stand. You have a one-shot NK protection along with a once-per-night kill. Unfortunately as the City's Only Hope is were to be killed the town would automatically lose. You win if the Mafia is destroyed.

You are a Vanilla Townie. Your only ability is to vote for Cops. Good Luck. You win if the mafia is destroyed.

[Empking]

Gun Owner = City's Only Hope?

Presumably the cop is elected each day?

Yes and Yes.

Why can't Mafia just NK the cop each night?

If a Mafiasio is picked or if it simply wouldn't be the best kill.

[Empking]

If there's no kill, won't the mafia know they targeted the Last Hope?

Yeah. Its just to guarantee the town having a chance to win.

[Empking]

Yeah, it's basically forcing LyLo as soon as it happens. I like it. Very much. I don't know if it's balanced at all. If the TOH dies AND the last mafia dies on the same night, who wins?

Town.

[Empking]

FH's only work 50% of the time.

[Empking]

Also, Dethy Revisited:

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Sane Cop
1 Insane Cop
1 Paranoid Cop
1 Naive Cop

Is this supposed to help skewed Mafia or Town win rates? Because being Roleblocked = confirmed as Town.

Scum can WIFOM that.

[Empking]

Personally the fun of Dethy (as town) is purely the logic and I don't think they should water down the logic in that.

[Empking]

3 Silencers, ? Vengeful Townies
Day Start

You are a

Silencer

. You may send me the name of one person to be silenced. The following day, that person will not be allowed to do anything except vote. You do not know who the other two silencers are and you do not get a kill at night. You win when silencers equal or outnumber the town.

You are a

Vengeful Townie

. If you are lynched, you may PM me the name of one person to be shot. That person will die immediately. In all other regards, you are a normal townie. You do not perform any night action; unless you are lynched you have only your voice and your vote.

Thoughts?

? should be 7 (Say I) - I don't think its a very fun game.

[Empking]

Just so I didn't waste the last couple of hours.

2 Mafia

1 Serial Killer

4 Townies

EV =~ 3/8

[Empking]

Less-Night Mafia

2 Mafia

2 Monopolistic Docs (Docs that roleblock other Docs if they target them.)
4 Townies

OR

3 Mafia

3 Monopolistic Docs
6 Townies

[Empking]

What happens if the Monopolistic Docs target each other?

Nobody is protected.

Tragedy: Was that swinginess directed to the first (2:1:4) or Less-Night? Less-Night wasn't meant to be all that swingy.

[Empking]

2 Monopolistic Docs (Docs that roleblock other Docs if they target them.)

Heyyyyyyy, I know where you got that idea from

I honestly don't. Mind enlightening me? (I presumed it was Draft but that wasn't right.)

[Empking]

I like it and I think it goes back to what the Open Queue is all about.

Empking's Military Mafia

4 Townies
1 Roleblocker
2 Mafia Goons

All players have a 1-shot night kill, and all players have a 1-shot bulletproof. The same mafia goon cannot use his one-shot kill and factional kill at the same time. Likewise, the roleblocker can't block and kill at the same time.

[Empking]

Isn't that number of roles...too small?

No its just right.

[Empking]

I like it and I think it goes back to what the Open Queue is all about.

Empking's Military Mafia

4 Townies
1 Roleblocker
2 Mafia Goons

All players have a 1-shot night kill, and all players have a 1-shot bulletproof. The same mafia goon cannot use his one-shot kill and factional kill at the same time. Likewise, the roleblocker can't block and kill at the same time.

The mafia will win very quickly. Probably on Day 1.

Do you mean night one? And I'm not too sure (and if thery do it means that town made a concentrated effort to kill two townies. They deserve to lose.)

[Empking]

Bloody hell this thread is full of "Nah that idea fails". Does

anybody

help with making the setup better, or is everything instant-yes/instant-no-get-rid-of-it?

I've just improved Meransiel's game. Also why don't you comment productively?

(I think we have to remember that a large porportion of set ups put out in this thread both suck and lack a decent hook. I think it shows good spirit that we're willing to just say the sucky set ups suck.)

[Empking]

Empking's Guide to Making an Open Set Up

1. Steal somebody else's idea
2. Make a cosmetic change
3. Add your name to it.

1. Work out a hook
2. Evaluate the hook. Is it good? If yes go to three.
3. Work out the bare minimum of roles needed to fulfill your hook.
4. Work out the bare minimum of scum needed (two or more).
5. Make your set up only using those bare minimums.


On another note:
Thinking about it.

Empking's Military Mafia V.2

2 Mafia

1 Roleblocker
5 Townies

All players have a 1-shot night kill, and all players have a 1-shot bulletproof. The same mafia goon cannot use his one-shot kill and factional kill at the same time. Likewise, the roleblocker can't block and kill at the same time.

[Empking]

Also why don't you comment productively?

Because I don't know the slightest thing about balance or improvement in those sorts of areas, maybe?

OMGUS

Idea:

New Blood Mafia

2 Mafia Apprentices
2 Cops
6 Townies

Mafia Apprentices are treated as Town if investigated until they kill somebody.

Drop a townie (to move it to the superior nine players) and I'll nominate it.

[Empking]

Nominate: New Blood Mafia -1 Townie

[Empking]

Psyciactrist Mafia

Mafia Group (1 Kill Between Them.):
1 Psychopath (Doesn’t know Serial Killer.)
1 Serial Killer (Knows Psychopath)

Psychopath can contact SK through a QuickTopic but the SK can not post in it.

Town:
2 Townies
1 Psychiatrist

No 50% rule.

If the SK dies then town automatically wins.

[Empking]

The Psychopath will die night 1, no save.

Why?

(JUst so its clear the SK/Psychpath are one group with thesamre win con.)

[Empking]

Now, the psychiatrist would convert them to town? Would their buddy know?

Yes.

No.

Meransiel: What do you see as the events that lead up with the two killing each other?

I am glad I posted it here because I have seen a crucial flaw. The Serial Killer should have ultimate say on who is killed.

[Empking]

If Psycho is converted, he can't post in Quicktopic anymore. SK will see this and kill him instantly.

Why?

This is unbalanced.

Define "unbalanced"? (If you're saying that the Serial Killer only has a small chance of winning then that's absurd.)

[Empking]

So what happens if the SK is converted?

Oh the Serial Killer can't be converted, just the Psychopath.

[Empking]

It would suck to be a psychopath in that setting.

Even if psychopath doesn't know him, if the SK kills according to the psycho's advice, the psycho can somehow guess who the SK is.

You mean...scumhunt?

Basically, in this setting, psychopath optimal play is find out who the SK is as fast and possible, and get himself converted to townie. SK optimal play is get rid of psychopath, who is a clear liability.

If a VT was lynched Day 1 then EV wise if the SK targetted anyone but the Psychpath then the SK has a has an 8/9 chance of winning. If he targets the psychopath then he has a 1/2 chance of winning. The first looks better to me.

[Empking]

Psyciactrist Mafia

Mafia Group (1 Kill Between Them.):
1 Psychopath (Doesn’t know Serial Killer.)
1 Serial Killer (Knows Psychopath)

Psychopath can contact SK through a QuickTopic but the SK can not post in it.

Town:
2 Townies
1 Psychiatrist

No 50% rule.

If the SK dies then town automatically wins.

Psychopath+Psychiatrist claim and are cleared. SK can't counter-claim or he loses. It's brought down to 2 townies + SK with two days. Town has an 83% chance of winning.

If Psychpoath claims then his odds of winning goes from aroung 58% to a third. Why does the Psychpath claim again?

[Empking]

2 yuppies (selects one person at night, if mafia that person gets a gun, if town/jester a vest - the yuppie is not notified)
1 jester
3 vanilla town, each with a gun
2 mafia goons, each with a vest

Night start.
No reveal.

If you have a vest and you are shot, you (are/aren't) notified via PM
Only kills are announced in thread

UM OKAY THIS IS PROBABLY HORRIFICALLY IMBALANCED

People with guns can shoot, I imagine. How are you going to make it so that a yuppie doesn't know if he can shoot? Just make them send in a kill every night?
Town can lose n0, so yeah it's imbalanced.

It also has a jester in as an afterthought. Which is lame.
Do mafia have a normal kill?

[Empking]

Semi-Open setup idea:
1 Watcher, worth 3 points
1 Tracker, worth 2 points
3 Reporters, worth 1 point each

3 Mafia
10 Town

Three points of power roles are assigned to the mafia.
Five points of power roles are assigned to the town.

Possible weakness: If a mafia watcher flips, all other power roles are confirmed town. Not sure how to work around this yet.

FTFY

1. What is the "3" doing in from "Reporters"?
2. How do you generate the set up?

[Empking]

Semi-Open setup idea:
1 Watcher, worth 3 points
1 Tracker, worth 2 points
3 Reporters, worth 1 point each

3 Mafia
10 Town

Three points of power roles are assigned to the mafia.
Five points of power roles are assigned to the town.

Possible weakness: If a mafia watcher flips, all other power roles are confirmed town. Not sure how to work around this yet.

FTFY

1. What is the "3" doing in from "Reporters"?
2. How do you generate the set up?

1. Two reporters doesn't work because then I'd have to give only two points to the mafia, and then mafia wouldn't be able to get a watcher.
2. Roll 1d6. If a 1 or 2 is rolled, the mafia gets the watcher. If a 3, 4, or 5 is rolled, the mafia gets a tracker and a reporter. If a 6 is rolled, the mafia gets all three reporters. There's probably a better way to do this but this is the first method that comes to mind.

OK. I get the set up now. I think the town is too weak.