Medieval Mafia - Game Over

[camn]

Wow, guys. You all come out pretty strong.

Obviously, I

VOTE KMD4390

WHy? flawed gambits + flawed scum-dar = town liability.

Plus, in an off-topic way, I would like to mention that I am revisiting Pink Floyd's early work. I think I like it better when Gilmour started playing Lead.. though I am sure there are some Syd Barrett purists here that will defy me.

[camn]

"coming out strong" is in reference to posts with a vote, and nothing else. No reasons, no info, nothing as to the character of the poster. Just flailing around with voting.

It cannot stand. I need info.

[camn]

I just want added value!

[camn]

PS.

Unvote
Vote populartajo

I could barely figure out your Acronyms. Too lazy to type it out? Maybe too lazy to NOT BE SCUM?

[camn]

I remember Cam Neely!
Just from the name, though... I never was into him... He was on some EASTERN conference team, wasn't he?
I live out west.

But I remember the name.

[camn]

I tend to agree with DGB, that dayvig scum seems unlikely.. .
Plus, if he actually lets us direct his kill. . it makes me like him.
Setting up his lynch in advance only guarantees at least one dead townie.

If he is scum, and we tell him to kill someone and then we kill him, obviously he will only kill a townie.
If he is town and we do the same, then he dies as town.

Thus... I would be against a lynch on principle only.

[camn]

I tend to agree with DGB, that dayvig scum seems unlikely.. .
Plus, if he actually lets us direct his kill. . it makes me like him.
Setting up his lynch in advance only guarantees at least one dead townie.

If he is scum, and we tell him to kill someone and then we kill him, obviously he will only kill a townie.
If he is town and we do the same, then he dies as town.

Thus... I would be against a lynch on principle only.

For some reason, you believe there is no way, if he was scum, that he would kill a fellow scum if we told him to do so. Why is that?

Not he knew we were simply going to policy-lynch him directly thereafter. Where would the percentage be?

And no, I don't think D1 is for lynching scum.
As far as I can tell, it is for lynching the most annoying player, regardless of alignment...

[camn]

I am also inclined to kill zwet. I like short-ish day1s.

Zwet.. do you have

anything

to say about your bizarre claiming?

[camn]

Why?

Hey.
Why did you claim twice?

[camn]

hey zwet, got any flavor backing for being a martyr/bodyguard?

More than what he already posted?
What are you looking for?



ps

UNVOTE
Vote: Jebus

[camn]

hey zwet, got any flavor backing for being a martyr/bodyguard?

More than what he already posted?
What are you looking for?

what? He hasn't posted

any

flavor besides a name. I want to know why William Wallace is a martyr/bodyguard. What are you trying to say here?

I thought I was pretty clear.
Why do you want more flavor?
Anyone who has seen

Brave Heart

could make up flavor for this... so I don't see the purpose.

[camn]

hey zwet, got any flavor backing for being a martyr/bodyguard?

More than what he already posted?
What are you looking for?

what? He hasn't posted

any

flavor besides a name. I want to know why William Wallace is a martyr/bodyguard. What are you trying to say here?

I thought I was pretty clear.
Why do you want more flavor?
Anyone who has seen

Brave Heart

could make up flavor for this... so I don't see the purpose.

FoS: camn

Because if he can't come up with flavor, why should we believe him? I don't like at all how you gave him an out here.

I don't believe him. Even if he CAN come up with flavor.
I just wonder what YOU are looking for.

[camn]

I don't believe him. Even if he CAN come up with flavor.
I just wonder what YOU are looking for.

If you didn't believe him, why did you unvote him then and place a mindless vote on Jebus?

I never had a vote on Zwet.
Why would you say that I did?

[camn]

@everyone
Is there any actual argument for voting for Jebus?

@camn
If you didn't believe him, why did you unvote him then and place a mindless vote on Jebus?

@caboose
What made you "sold" on the Jebus case in the span of about a half-hour?

@DGB
This is complete bullshit. You are basically voting for Jebus because he is a lurker.

Why are you so intent on defending Jebus?
From me, from caboose, from DGB... whats the deal?
And dont forget to bring your case to populartajo. He's voting for Jebus, too.

[camn]

I'm not so much defending Jebus as I am attacking the validity of your case against him. My comments about Jebus are directed to everyone, including tajo.

What case? I don't recall myself or Tajo stating any reason for voting Jebus.
Despite me not stating a reason, you called my vote "mindless". Seems like an overreaction, considering it was the first vote on him.

Maybe you are locked into your conversation with DGB, though, and aren't minding these details.
Which is sad, because I love attention.

[camn]

I'm kind of with KMD.
1st off, I don't think Samuel is seeing 20:20 regarding day one.. but it seems like he has genuine disdain for the information that can be gained from it.
Obviously I don't agree, but really, what do you expect from a Red Sox fan?

2nd, Zwet.. you are developing a habit of voting people who attack you with little reasoning. I think that voting someone who ISN'T attacking you mightwork better, because then we can assume you have a non-OMGUS reason.... but if you confine your votes to people voting YOU, you are going to need a reason if you want to convince me.

3rd... any significance to this?

Vote: DrippingGoofBall

Not on my watch

...

....Day 1 is the most informative day of all. We're not letting the scum rob us of it.

Not on my watch

.

[camn]

I'm actually really close to asking to be replaced. I just remembered why I hate playing with DGB.

How on earth is there no votes on TSQ?

You want to replace out of a game because you don't like how it is going for you?
If I didn't love lynching lurkers so much, I would totally be voting you for this alone.

FOS: TSQ

You need to calm down.

However, my friends, I do love lynching lurkers. Especially day 1.
If you aren't going to play, get out of my games.

Now if only Jebus would show up with a PBPA so I could start voting TSQ.

And +1 on dayvig NOT claiming.
Though you might want to try vigging scum next time.

[camn]

Look, 50-50 or whatever.

All lurkers must die.
I hate waiting for replacements to catch up.
I hate that someone would drop a random vote on MY WONDERFUL SELF, and then disappear without unvoting.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE when a lurker gets prodded back into the game and has to dig their way back from 6 votes down. LOVE IT.
I even love nightkilling lurkers when I can.
None of this has anything to do with scumminess. Especially on day one, scum are hard to find. But lurkers ruin games.

But more importantly... TSQ.. why are you defending him? Whats up with that? You and scot12... going out of your way to defend Jebus.
Defending a lurker is just as 'mindless' as voting for one. (which, I admit, is mindless.. but feels SO good.) It like arguing about who sucks between the Yanks and the Red Sox.. There is simply no evidence that EITHER option is untrue. That is why lurkers must die. It goes to the integrity of the game.

So stop arguing about it and argue about something better.

[camn]

Pretty much the same situation with Jebus. Indifferent on both of them.

You are clearly NOT indifferent on Jebus. You desperately want to avoid his lynch.

And I am hardly "pushing his lynch". I am just tired of people arguing about whether lurking is a scum-tell. It isn't. It's worse.

And don't be silly. If someone were CONFIRMED town, I wouldn't lynch them. I would hope they were nightkilled... but I wouldn't lynch them, as town OR scum.
However

JEBUS IS NOT CONFIRMED TOWN

.
Jebus is not playing this game properly, and deserves HOLY RETRIBUTION.
At the very least, his replacement should have some explaining to do.

[camn]

That too...and then there is the whole discussin concerning sam, then there is this whole argument among DGB and TSQ, so why would town vote for a lurker simply for lurking (something she admits is not a scumtell) when she could be scumhunting? It does not make sense.

Actually, I admitted it was an OMGUS vote.

And you should take notice.. I was the one that wanted to argue about something else. So it worked. I would much rather argue about ME than about lurkers. I told you, I like the attention.

And why don't you take some of your own advice and do some hunting of your own? 15 of your last 16 posts have been about Jebus.

[camn]

That is scumhunting??

!!

[camn]

If you have been scumhunting the whole game, how do you explain your obsession with Jebus?

Look at your posts...
You posted 6 times. Including trying to uber-wagon zwet.

We fucking serious people? Seriously, stop unvoting. I do not get what makes this claim so believable; and after reading about William Wallace, I really don't see how martyr (or bodyguard for that matter) fits for him.

Then, until I got you off the topic... only 2 of your next 29 posts are not ABOUT JEBUS.

I clearly am the only one that could pull you away from your obsession.
If scumhunting = obsessing about Jebus.. then you are totally scumhunting.
But it doesn't.

So... why are you so into him?

[camn]

God I have to do this:

All from Scot:

Is there any actual argument for voting for

Jebus

?

If you didn't believe him, why did you unvote him then and place a mindless vote on

Jebus

?

What made you "sold" on the

Jebus

case in the span of about a half-hour?

This is complete bullshit. You are basically voting for

Jebus

because he is a lurker. Way to go.

Attacking someone's activity, regardless of his activity in other games, is ridiculous to do on day 1.

Lynching anyone on day 1 for lurking is something I don't believe strongly in, no matter the extent.

My comments about

Jebus

are directed to everyone, including tajo.

Hell, maybe he forgot about it (Infact, Mod: prod

Jebus

please). None of these make him scum.

You not stated shows your vote has no validity, hence it being mindless.

Unless you have say a solid meta on someone who only lurks as scum, which I don't think people have on

Jebus

, I view lurking as a null-tell.

I do not condone the wagon on

Jebus

.

Is

Jebus

worthy of such a supportive statement?

Well I don't think he is worthy of being lynched if that is what you are asking.

he could quite possibly be scum in those games and town in this one.

I don't understand why you people are rushing to lynch him. Give him some time before you automatically condemn him.

Four votes is "rushing to lynch"?

Well its five votes, and he went from two to five in like a matter of, what, a few hours? So yes.

The difference is zwet was scummy while

Jebus

has done nothing scummy.

So he has done nothing scummy. So unvote him.

Your argument seems to be that

Jebus

is innocent until proven guilty.

He is, and anyone who thinks otherwise is retarded.

I am attacking the validity of people's arguments against

Jebus

.

Pretty much the same situation with

Jebus

. Indifferent on both of them.

I want to avoid his lynch because there is no reason to lynch him.

Lynching lurkers should not be the priority

why would town vote for a lurker simply for lurking

You know, I have been scumhunting this whole game.

[camn]

Camn, can you read this post.

I don't like scotmany defending jesus. Let him come defend himself.

I am attacking the validity of people's arguments against Jebus. I'm not going to sit back and let people do things that I disagree with.

The arguments for why Jebus is scum are severely flawed

, so I'm going to speak up about it.

I find the wagon on Jebus to be dumbfounded and baseless. So I'm going to try and stop the wagon. Now I read every post, make notes to myself in my head, and if anything extremely scummy jumps out to me, I will comment on it. If I disagree with anything, like lynching lurkers, I will most likely comment on it.

Camn, do you have other games where you share this enthusiasm of lynching lurkers? If so, can you point them to me? I don't want to vote for you if you do this regardless of alignment, even if it is antitown.

Yeah, I can read it.

Now I am going to totally blow your mind:

a) I have never argued that Jebus is scum. Your debate is elsewhere.
b) I am not pushing the Lurker Wagon. I simply understand why it exists.
c) I don't keep track of my games. And I don't assist people with meta-analyzing me.
d) I don't care if you are voting me. I just want you to stop thinking about JEBUS!!!
e)

UNVOTE, VOTE TSQ

Why? because I was trying to pick this fight with you, but somehow Scot took over. You two with your lurker love.

[camn]

Look, we have all day to kill lurkers.

But arguing about it tires me.

[camn]

Why must you be difficult camn...

a) I have never argued that Jebus is scum. Your debate is elsewhere.

This is exactly my point camn. There was no reason for you to be voting for him, and I still don't exactly understand why you were voting for him, and that leaves me confused as to what you are trying to do in this game. Were you just voting him for reactions? Were you seriously considering lynching him because he was a lurker?

I gave you a way for you to show me that my vote on you had no basis to it. You refusing to do so reinforces it.

Its not a refusal, I just can't be bothered. Your vote's 'basis' does not interest me.
I like that you are

asking

me now, though. You never did before, you know. You just said I was 'mindless' and 'retarded'.
Not that I mind. I do like the attention.

Anyway, I told you. He random voted me and then vanished. I don't like that. Plus my random vote on pop seemed inappropriate by that time.

And yes. I would be willing to lynch a lurker, I would rather see the pressure force them to play correctly, but all lurkers should die. If he gets to L-1 and still hasn't posted, I will hammer him. I hear and understand that you are AGAINST a policy lynch on day 1 of a large theme game with a closed setup. I get it. I, personally, am all for it. But there is really no need to discuss it further.

So.... can we talk about something else? Like TSQ? I would normally grill you some more, but you seem like an innocent townie cursed by an unhealthy obsession with JEBUS.

[camn]

I generally nightkill people I am mad at. It feels good. You should try it, TSQ.

And DGB! That post was in re: to lurkers. If there were a confirmed townie lurking, I would hope the scum would choose to remove them from play, instead of an active townie.

Duh.

[camn]

That must be the difference between you and me.

I enjoy revenge more.

[camn]

How does the confirmed POWER ROLE townie then avoid being nightkilled, may I ask?

[camn]

I've seen that Camn likes to go after lurkers as town. The game we played together, she kept screaming, "Lurker scum team!". And she actually ended up being probably the only person in the game who was right about the scum. But yeah, she does go after lurkers as town.

God I was right about them, wasn't I.
Did we end up winning that game? I forget.

camn, if Jebus is replaced, why does his replacement have explaining to do regarding his lurking?

Its not so much explaining.. its just that I want them to have to bring a decent amount of analysis RIGHT AWAY, just to derail the wagon.
This slightly can make up for the inactivity of their predecessor.
This only comes to pass if we have a system-wide lynch all lurkers meta.

[camn]

Grrr.

The fact that they won that game rekindles my fury.
I

will

hammer.

[camn]

Already clarified. Post 473.
Read better please.
If you can't follow the context of a discussion, don't bother trying.

A lurker, confirmed or not, does nothing to help the town.

[camn]

I forgive you.

[camn]

God I couldn't agree more.

unvote
Vote : Jebus

Just until I can take a harder look at hasfgsa. Not that you are off the hook, TSQ...

[camn]

Look.. in honesty, I would like all lurkers to die.

IN THIS GAME, I am at the point where I want to get serious.... But a lurker is a FINE place to keep my vote until I decide on who must die. Just accept it.

And you are on the hook because
a) you were playing like scum.
b) Everyone is suspect
c) Replacing out because your feelings are hurt is almost as unacceptable, on a meta-level, as lurking.

But I am done with policy discussion. It is clear that Xylthixlm understands me.

[camn]

EBWOP... That was directed at TSQ.

[camn]

God you are the greatest replacement ever. This IS a total cluster.

[camn]

OK. Lets get serious.

Here is my PBPA with an ear as to TODAY's gameplan.
We have too many people who aren't really into the game. If you are reading this.. just start typing. I don't care if you catch up. Just jump on a wagon and go with it. PLEASE!!

Other that that, I have very few suspects, and no solid ones.
Pop reads scummy to me, but I don't have a case.
I wanted to hate Cow, but I found that he is simply irrelevant.
Scot could be scum. KMD could be, too, and I am overlooking it.

And, All lurkers must die.

CAMN'S OPINIONS:

Caboose

:
Soft claimed PR. This = bad D1 lynch, great lynch later on... If.

camn

: Obvtown

CounselWolf

:
Is lurker. Must die. Oh wait.. Is

Korejora

... best replacement ever.

crywolf20084

:
Is hardly playing.. please rectify or die.

DrippingGoofball

:
Was correct about zwet not being a vig... scum, or insightful?
Def should live through today.

farside22

:
Stupid Vacation. Hurry home. Wait.. you should be back by now.

hasdgfas:

Gosh.. I read you WANTING you to be REALLY scummy.. but you aren't that bad. You are incredibly WRONG about a lot of things.. but not everything. Neutral on you. But I would lynch you because you are so wrong on everything. You could easily be scum who's buddies are furious with you for sucking.

Incognito:

Totally Lurking. Must die.

Jebus:

Um. Its not a "burst". Its called DAY ONE. Dork.

Kmd4390

:
I am biased on KMD. We were town together.. then he was town and I nightkilled him night one for revenge... now I hope to play a couple days with him. So I can't be trusted. He seems as townie as ever. I would like to see him live a couple days.

OhGodMyLife

:
Talk about repetitive posts. Jeez.

populartajo

:
I thought you were on V/LA till thursday.. but you have posted MOST of your wordcount since you left! You should go on vaca more often.
Pop reads like scum to me. He is posing enough, but without much meaning.
Stays away from the zwet wagon.. stays away from the lurker-battle despite being #2 on the Jebus wagon... then mildly goes after the Cow once it becomes cool. Which = scum.

qwints

:
Totally useless. Convince us you are worth having around, please.

sam.samhorn

:
You haven't posted much, and some of what you say is suspect... but you aren't afraid to have an opinion. That earns you townie points to me.

scotmany12

:
You have an irrational fixation on Jebus. If you don't totally start letting us in on your secret scumhunting, then you deserve to hang. Post 507 is pretty indicative. It is all about Jebus, isn't it?

stark

:
Come play mafia with us? Please? You did sign up!

Thestatusquo

:
Scummy at times.. but worth keeping around until tonight. Totally worth it. At least he is playing.

Xylthixlm

:
I guess I am a little biased, but I think obvtown. Or obvscum-who-loves-killing-lurkers. Either way . . a terrible lynch for today.

Yosarian2

:
You aren't going to find me advocating a D1 lynch of a legend. Plus I see no scum here. Not today at least.

zwetschenwasser

:
R.I.P.

[camn]

EBWOP... wait... it was Night 0. I nightkilled KMD N0 for revenge. Sorry about that.

[camn]

FYI, my current vote is not random.

Care to explain?

Not currently, no.

Scummy.

Next:

Yos, you know as well as I do that the logic for the meta policy is not because he's sure to be scum, but rather that we have to make the meta for miller claims unacceptable for scum.

I don't like letting miller claims into the meta. This is purely and simply a meta policy issue.

Clearly you understand Lynching someone for meta- or Policy- reasons.
YET>>>>
Even though you admit this...

It's equally likely to me that he is just flaking on this one game.

YOu somehow don't understand the benefit of policy lynching a lurker..

Jebus does not need to be lynched

.
Scummy.

NEXT, Back to Farside...

In my opinion the town is well served by knowing that my vote is not within the bounds of the RVI, but is not well served by knowing its purpose yet.

All will be revealed in due time, my tiny little friend.

How many times have I heard this promise?
And then, when you finally bless us with your insight.. it's this???

I found her comment where she said "Wait, we haven't had a night" to be scummy because to me it sounded like the kind of comment that a scum player would make if there was a night and they didn't realize it.

THATS what you were being all mysterious about?
Scummy.


NOW.. That said, even though those things were scummy.... you have done a lot that was NOT scummy... which is why you aren't OFF THE HOOK, but you DO deserve to live through the day.

For clarity.. this post should not be construed as a 'case' against TSQ. He asked when he was scummy... this is my response.

[camn]

What did I do?

[camn]

If nothing changes.
If you don't get nightkilled.
If you don't fullclaim some day. (NOT NOW!!)
If you don't keep keeping it real.
If there is no obvscum.


But how, exactly, is softclaiming NOT scummy?

[camn]

Totally agree.

[camn]

OOPs.. I mean totally agree . . with Xylthixlm.

[camn]

caboose answered in 612.

But if you mean THREE posts ago... then:

1) I don't disagree with these high Ideals.
But I don't think you accomplished them.
Your "secret" reasons turned out to be incredibly obvious. Withholding them from us really just withheld info about YOU.. not about farside.
If you were trying to get 'reactions' I would say you failed.. thus your stated strategy was flawed.... if that was your true intention.
Maybe you as scum wanted to tap into some kind of inherent Farside-scummieness and build a wagon. Maybe you are both scum and you are distancing. Maybe a lot of things... most of them scummy.

2) It isn't the difference that is scummy. It is your apparent lack of understanding of why WE think lurkers should die. I am sure you DO understand it. So why wern't you debating it from a policy perspective? Instead you called Xyl "likely scum" for voting a lurker. Scummy.

[camn]

@KMD

The reason for my disclaimer is that I don't want people thinking I am pushing a case on TSQ RIGHT NOW. I am not. Unless something changes radically, I think he is a bad lynch today. Thus, the disclaimer. He asked for it though.

ANd your gambit doesn't apply... because it wasn't a crap-case. it was real scumminess that started the zwet wagon. Real scumminess garners townies and clever scum equally.
YOUR gambit was based on a CRAP-case drawing scum in, no?

[camn]

Wow. Take a couple hours off, and I see what happens.

Hey Qwints.. did you soft-claim vanilla a couple pages back?

[camn]

Wow. Take a couple hours off, and I see what happens.

Hey Qwints.. did you soft-claim vanilla a couple pages back?

Eh...I observed the possible soft claim and attacked him for it, but even so I'm a little uncomfortable with you actually asking him if he's soft-claiming vanillia. I donno if that says more about you or about me, but I figured I'd mention it.

To me a softclaim is just BEGGING for further inquiry.. . and is generally a bad idea for town.

Now for scum, it is a great idea. If you are subtle, maybe just a couple people notice, and they back off the heat a little bit. Maybe you buy doc protection. Maybe you buy WEAK doc protection. So many upsides for scum, so few for town.

I like to expose it to the light of day.

[camn]

Oh, the vanilla part? I read it as him claiming vanilla.
And I just want him to confirm or deny.

Why would it be bad if he answers? It would delete any wiggle room on his part.

And take note, I see qwints as a decently likely lynch

candidate

for today, so I don't mind pressuring a claim on him.
My reaction is different on, say, Caboose. I don't want clarification from him.

In fact, to that end:

UNVOTE
Vote QWINTS

Get in the game, my friend. And explain what this means:

I'm gonna feel bad about my performance in the game if I get lynched day one, but it won't hurt the town too much.

[camn]

(although I still think that no one should EVER claim vanillia, under ANY circumstances).

I tend to agree. Which is why it seemed weird that he did it (if that is what he did), especially without that many votes.

@sam: softclaiming is just a lame response to getting votes. It is on my list of things I will vote you for. If you are going to claim, claim. If you aren't, DON'T. In fact.. it IS day one.. unless we are going to lynch you.. DON'T CLAIM!

One man's opinion.

@Korejora.. I think you left out the first half of your sentence.

[camn]

How is it legit?
That is.. how does it help the town?

[camn]

How is it legit?
That is.. how does it help the town?

Were you here when Caboose did it?

It's a legit town strategy sometimes.

I was here, and it is on my list of "things Caboose did that are scummy"
I just am willing to wait a couple days to ask him about it.

And I ask again... How does it help the town?

PS.. you seem pretty convinced Caboose is town. What makes you so sure?

[camn]

A refusal to claim could also be a Doc claim.

I think the only times I have claimed vanilla, I have been scum. And it got me out of a lynch.

ANd @Kore.. I think qwints has vanished, responding not at all to any questions of mine.

[camn]

We should move this game to the "game theory" forum.

[camn]

I assure you that it'll all make sense later.

I certainly hope so.

Though I am sure you understand.. you being scum would totally be 'role-based info' supporting zwet's towniness. And you flipping scum would certainly make it all make sense.

Not that I am saying you are scum.. but your assurances don't mean much to a suspicious girl like me. I have trust issues.

[camn]

He actually is, according to the vote count.

Relevance?

[camn]

PS Caboose.. I think it is L-2, with crywolf's vote.

Plus.. isn't there a strange double-vote selection somewhere? So it could possibly be L-1.

I would demand a claim here.. but it seems Qwints claimed at L-7.

Looking over qwints OTHER posts, I don't see much particularly worth keeping him around for.. plus my Lynch Hand is getting a little itchy... so I am OK with qwints dying if he isn't going to play.

On the other hand, I bet we could do better, given enough time.

BUT... I think this is a pretty intimidating game for replacements.. it IS already 30 pages deep..... and I don't like being kept waiting.. . so I say go.
General lurkiness.
Unprovoked vanilla softclaim.
Lack of obvious better options.
Discussion at large exhausted.

Or lets get serious about the Cow.

[camn]

I saw this in your Wiki entry, Kore.. and I was wondering if it would come up.

Funny timing.

[camn]

Can't we lynch her another day? I like her so much more than qwints, Jebus, OR hascow.

[camn]

Nice wiki update, Xyl.

Koje... why DID you choose right THEN to tell us this?

[camn]

* Disclaimer: I can usually be counted on to hammer anyone who gets up to L-1 and is not obviously protown, especially if the day has lasted longer than 3 milliseconds.

You are my favorite player ever, as of now.


Sorry, Incog.

[camn]

i like Koje better than scot, too.

[camn]

that you and Jebus are sitting in a tree?

Duh.

[camn]

Maybe he thinks allowing you to policy lynch Koje will inevitably lead to you policy lynching Jebus...

[camn]

The rules come up mainly because I'm unwilling to play in the same game as someone who isn't playing to win; I'd like to know if you're in that category so that I can request replacement and save us all more aggravation.

Now you are being unreasonable! Technically, any policy lynch isn't "playing to win", and is a violation of that same rule, isn't it?

But that aside... Don't speak of replacing out! And keep your rulebook in your pants where it belongs! Lets get back to lynching lurkers!

[camn]

Except that in your analogy, you already punched somone in the face for failing to set a screen! And I crouched down behind him so he would trip. Plus, TSQ cried and ran off.

So really.... travelling? Really?

[camn]

no they weren't!

And seriously... Lets compromise.
If Kore wont vote TOMORROW, I will help you policy lynch her. But TODAY, lets policy lynch someone else?

[camn]

Korejora.....

Considering we ran Zwet up to a lynch.. and then he died..... isn't it kind of like this is actually day 2? Only there were no night actions?

So couldn't you, without violating your ethics, actually lay a vote down...since it is just

technically

still day 1?

[camn]

Hush, DGB.. I am brokering a compromise here.

How about: If Kore doesn't vote TODAY, you will help policy lynch her TOMORROW.

Xyl.. I am inclined to agree with your proposal. . . given you will let the matter rest until then?

[camn]

Asking for a votecount is reasonable to avoid the risk of a quick hammer, but Kore should say who she wants to vote for first.

Also focusing on one player at a time is better than focusing on the whole town. We just need to make sure we don't tunnel for the whole game.

THAT IS YOUR CONTRIBUTION????!!

Qwints: In 15 words or more, please answer the following:
Who is scummier, Hascow or Jebus or Zwet....and why?

[camn]

OK

Revised scumlist: TSQ > hascow > Jebus > korejora > qwints

TSQ... we need to give the replacement a chance. Bad lynch for today

hascow ... v/la until tuesday? He is scummy, and I would be ok with a lynch here, but at least he is actually interacting with people and stuff. Answering questions and the like. Leave him for today.

Jebus ... die. die. die.

korejora ... I think Xyl has overreacted on this no-vote thing.... plus I think she is a benefit to the game. Leave her for today, too.

qwints.... Needs to respond intelligently to people.. or die. Is very close to a lynch as it is, and I don't feel we are getting much more out of the discussion today. I say roll the dice, and Lynch Qwints. Maybe we hit scum. Definitely we get the game moving. Worst case, we lose a claimed vanilla townie who has added nothing to the town.

THis memory comes to mind:

unvote, vote hascow

I like where this is going...

How about you add something to the game instead of just jumping on to the in vogue wagon? My vote could just as easily be on you as cow.

I'm good, thanks.

[camn]

I fail to see how the case against qwints is better than the case against Kore.

Do you think the case on Kore is better than the case on qwints?

[camn]

I obviously will lynch Jebus.

[camn]

...but I'm not going to vote someone for lurking.

I will.

Unvote,
Vote : Jebus

[camn]

Guys...If Jebus does not catch up over the weekend, hes going to get replaced. Lynching him is an awful move.

In reality, if he does not post over the weekend.. OGML's sig will simply change from :

Medieval Mafia is now underway, and currently needs

1

replacement.

to

Medieval Mafia is now underway, and currently needs

2

replacements.

After that some insane person might be willing to replace in on a 40-page day 1.... but whoever they are, they are, by definition, emotionally unstable. And we will have no D1 read on them at all. They will have the obvious advantage of

40 pages

worth of us, while we have nothing on them.

[camn]

Are you denying that you are emotionally unstable?

[camn]

Why isn't there more votes on me I've been too quiet this game.

Because DGB chainsawed TSQ so hard for voting you on page 3? Everyone is afraid.

[camn]

So anyone notice how the Qwints wagon conveniently derailed when Xyl went after Kore partially for derailing the Qwints wagon?

I could rejoin that wagon with the slightest bit of whimsy.

[camn]

There IS no evidence either way on Jebus.
We went over this.

His wagon is a policy-wagon.
Hopefully Tar will reward us for not killing Jebus.

[camn]

Hm.

Unvote
Vote: qwints

I don't vote commonly on

any

day, not because that's my policy, but because throwing votes around makes me feel presumptuous so I end up not doing it.

I feel fine about it.

[camn]

@camn - How likely do you think it will be that todays lynch is based on scummy actions compared to a policy lynch?

Now that you and Tar have replaced in, I think it ups the likelihood of a scumlynch over a policy lynch. We need some fresh eyes.

Honestly, though, I think that there are too many people that weren't really keeping up with the pace for a while, and that is a null tell, but makes for poor hunting. I also think there are a NUMBER of players who are too experienced to really give it away D1 if they are scum.. so we could be boxed out that way.

And personally.. I am ready for a night phase. I don't see any obvscum....I can see the merit to some cases, but they are all pretty thin. Thus, to me, a policy lynch would be fine. Day 1 mislynches are common enough that although a scumlynch > lurkermislynch.... a lurkermislynch > randommislynch.

And of course.. a lurkerscumlynch >>> all others.

[camn]

So am I.

But give him some rope. You call someone out on their scumminess after one post.. they might quit acting scummy.

[camn]

So why not this time?

[camn]

Post 846 - camn: Got any reasons for that or just throwing it out there?

Just throwing it out there.


In context.. it meant that I would rather lynch Scot than Koje.
Which is still true. Though, for clarity, I don't want to lynch either. But if I had to choose...

[camn]

3 days to deadline. Nobody has enough votes for a deadline lynch. I will consider anyone not voting at deadline to be voting "no lynch".

Advance warning: I will consider anyone not voting one of the top three candidates at deadline to be voting "no lynch", and demand explanations accordingly.

[camn]

My vote is not moving from hasdgfas, no matter what the deadline is.

If you had to choose between a no-lynch and a Qwints lynch, what would you choose.. and why?

[camn]

I think I would like to see a qwints claim before I put him at -1

qwints soft-claimed vanilla at L-7 or something... then confirmed it later on.

And pops is right.. if you had simply read qwint's posts... which are few in number, you would have read that.

If you actually want to help this town win, you need to start playing better. Of course, if that is NOT your interest.. then by all means, carry on like you have been.

[camn]

UNVOTE. VOte Stark

This is for you, pops. I feel like you are trying to tell us something.

Plus.. this post is really indicative of a poor level of reading comprehension.

I think I would like to see a qwints claim before I put him at -1

[camn]

Why, sam? PLease explain.

[camn]

Why didn't you simply read qwint's posts? There is only a handful of them.

I propose it is because you already know his orientation... so you weren't even curious.

But answer, please.

[camn]

OK, look.

I am pretty drunk.

But I will say this.
I read Pop as sftclaiming.. and sam as softclaiming.

as you know.. I find softclaiming super scummy... so you, ESPECIALLY sam.. sould explain yourselves pronto. Yours seems like a scum soft-fake-claim.

Whats the deal?

straight question. Why do you, sam, "guarantee" that stark is town????

Explain it now. If you are mason or have role info.. explain now. Otherwise I will assume you are scum fake-soft-claiming, and push your lynch relentlessly.

that is all. I am tired of this crap.

[camn]

PopTartajo softclaimed???

not overtly.... I just am reading him that way...with his funny spelling of 'optymal' and everything....

though today, in my sobriety.. I think I may be wrong re: pop.
but I still demand answers from Sam.

[camn]

Sam.. why do you ignore me?

and Scot.. please explain! Are you saying I am similar to stark?

[camn]

Thank you scot. I was about to be very offended.
I switched for populartajo. Qwints and stark are both worthless in my eyes.. but pop has some affection for qwints.. so I figure, 'whats the diff?'

I'm still glad Jebus wasn't lynched for lurking; didn't Rogueben replace him and now is contributing consistently?

And sam.. I know it is hard to keep up with the game... But

Tar

replaced Jebus.. and has posted 4 times.

I have the setting checked where Post #1 is at the top of every page... and it clearly states who replaced who. Maybe you should try that?

[camn]

I have the setting checked where Post #1 is at the top of every page... and it clearly states who replaced who. Maybe you should try that?

Oh wow, there's a setting for that? Cool!

I thought it was common knowledge!

It is halfway down in your profile preferences.

its called "Always show First Post on every Topic Page:"

c

[camn]

Lets just lynch one of them.

[camn]

But I will say this.
I read Pop as sftclaiming.. and sam as softclaiming.

On a side note; I didn't see anything either of them said, at all, as softclaiming; so this almost sounds like camm is fishing here, especally in regards to Sam.

When people say stuff like "so-and-so is definitely town; i guarantee it." or "please guys.. don't lynch so-an-so.. but I can't explain why".. I read that as claiming inside information.

This could be PR info.. or they could simply be scum.

To me,

scum

softclaim. . . trying to subconciously convince townies that they are Power-roles, and shouldn't be lynched.
BUT when the question arises: why weren't you nightkilled?.. the answer is :my softclaim was too subtle.

I know I am not supposed to call out possible Power Roles, but I get annoyed.

Anyway. since stark is

CONFIRMED TOWN

and Pop is Spanish...
I

UNVOTE
VOTE QWINTS

And Stark:
a) I don't have a mustache.
b) if I didn't post after drinking, I'd never post at all.
c) the case against me = vote hopping, lurkerhunting and bandwagoning. I have little patience, I am VERY bloodthirsty, and intolerant. I support policy lynches of all kinds, and would suicide before I replaced out. I am also admittedly tired of this D1. You don't need to wait until the day before deadline to run me up on that.
d) your metaphor is flawed.

[camn]

stark isn't confirmed town.

I know.

[camn]

Um Camn...How is stark confirmed?

I think she was being sarcastic. Sam "guaranteed" that Stark was town. Btw, I think that's Sam's opinion, not a softclaim.

I think it was because Stark said he was confirmed. "

That, plus Tar's weird insistence on everyone getting off the wagon. I assume he sees something I don't.

[camn]

I just said that I guarantee that he's town because this wagon is stupid.

I'd like to take this moment to point out that IT FINALLY WORKED.

stark has posted more in the last 3 days than he had the

entire game

before the wagon on him.
That is what lurker wagons are designed for. Thus NOT stupid.

[camn]

I thought it was, too..thats why I got off the wagon. Thats what I meant when I accused sam of softclaiming.

Lets just ask:

Sam: how do you

know

that stark is town? Are you mason-buddies? If so, prove it.
(add rolefishing to that case against me, stark)

People seem to have this strange idea that I'm flipping sometime soon, which I have no plans to.

How exactly, do you intend on avioding it?

UNVOTE. VOTE STARK

[camn]

yosarian-
I obviously support a qwints lynch... But i feel like
a) we are getting more information from pressuring stark
And
b) the case on qwints is just as weak
Thus:
C) it is more productive for us to lynch stark.
We get more opinions, we even get info from stark himself! Which, whichever way he flips, is useful.

Qwints, on the other hand, gives us nothing. Which means he should die, certainly, but later.

[camn]

Camm: I'm confused. Why, exactally, are you voting Stark?

Two reasons.
A) I don't like how he couldn't be bothered to read qwints when qwints was at L-2 or something. It comes off to me like he wasn't even

curious

as to what the problem with qwints is. And the Livingston explanation was simply no explanation at all.
B) see below

Qwints claimed vanillia, for no reason, and is refusing to be at all useful. That's not a bad case. What's the case for stark?

I see a link between him and Sam.
He refuses to answer questions in a straightforward way.
He threatens to bring a case on me .... lets see it.

Do you think Stark is likely to be scum? If so, why?

I don't have any LIKELY-scum suspects. . . and the deadline is coming.
I have a NUMBER of not-helping-the-town suspects. And I am not incredibly particular as to which one hangs. But I would like to maximize info from the lynch.. and maybe catch scum.

So...you want to lynch Stark because he's posting and qwints isn't?

B) In a way... YES. To me they are equivalently scummy, and equivalently useless to the town. If, by lynching them, one gives us a couple good posts worth of evidence on their potential scumbuddies.... I choose that one to put the heat on.
I mean, at minimum, I would like to see stark's "case" on myself!

[camn]

I might accept it as a joke (maybe) the first time he said it. But the bit where he quotes himself and sam.samhorn is pretty hard to pass off as a joke.

That should make it look even more that it was a joke. And when someone just says, oh I'm confirmed town without saying anything else about it, it is most likely a joke.

scot:
Jokes and scum bullshit look exactly the same, you know.
The "lolz! pwned!!" defense is the oldest trick in the book.

[camn]

Please explain.

Do you disagree?

[camn]

yosarian-
I obviously support a qwints lynch... But i feel like
a) we are getting more information from pressuring stark

The only way I see this is Qwints is vanilla while Stark has yet to claim. So this "information" only helps scum. If you mean wagon analyzing, we can get just as much information from either lynch. Also, Qwints is scummier.

The info I am HOPING for is a player-by-player from stark.. or maybe a 'case' on anyone... even me. He

has

promised it.

Wheras I don't think qwints will do any of this.

Do you not think getting a lurker to launch a full case on someone is useful information?

wannabe-townieing

I gotta make some room in my sig for this
Stark! Add "wannabe-townieing" to your case!

[camn]

What question didn't he answer?

Why didn't he simply read qwint's posts? There is only a handful of them.

What post are you talking about here? You're making a case; quote the post, and explain how you think it is scummy.

Ah.. looking back I see he didn't just promise a case on me. But a PBPA.

I would actually be really up for a camn lynch, and not just on OMGUS. If I have time tomorrow, I can work on a more topical PbPA, as the last thirty pages have been a bit of a blur for me.

That's horrible logic. If one of them is "giving a couple of good posts", then that makes him less "useless to the town" then the other. It sounds like you want to lynch him because he is lurking, and you want to lynch him because he is posting.

His posting makes me want to lynch him a little less...... and a couple more posts would help even more. This alleged PBPA would REALLY help!

[camn]

UNVOTE

Before I vote stark: 10 posts total, in 16 days.
After I vote stark... 18 posts, in 3 days.
My work here is done.

VOTE QWINTS

Your turn.
I want to see an incredible rise in the quantity AND quality of your posts.. and I want to see it immediately.

[camn]

Yosarian has me mostly convinced... Qwints is scummier. Plus I would like to encourage him to actually get in the game.

I am very against a no-lynch, though. You can count on me for the hammer.

[camn]

Too bad a name cop is useless now.

You should have been pushing for name-claims from

everyone

a little earlier on, there, hascow. Now that you are in the open.. no one will risk lying about their NAME. You are now more irrelevant than ever.

[camn]

OK, I'll fuel this wagon.. I agree with Yosarian2.

UNVOTE. VOTE CRYWOLF

Claim or die. You are at L-2 or L-1 now.

Has, can you investigate me tonight? We can test it that way.

Before you disappear... how exactly would this work? Small words, please.. I am slow.

Camn is scummy.

How so?

Yes, please explain.

[camn]

I would absolutely support a camn lynch, now that I think about it some more.

I would like to see you bring it, buddy.

[camn]

Hello, everyone.

First things first: Xyl.. I don't know how you think someone like me could convince someone like Tar of ANYTHING... but I certainly get a town read off you.
I think coming out at Xyl this hard first thing in the morning is a silly move, and I would like to know reasons.
Tar? English please.
KMD? I see your recap... but it doesn't seem like enough.

Second: To be fair, I must announce one thing. I am going to Mexico from the 17th till the 25th. There SHOULD be internet.. it's not like we are driving around in the Westphalia or anything... but I might be confined to 1-liners for a bit.

Third: I have had about enough of this:

I would actually be really up for a camn lynch, and not just on OMGUS. If I have time tomorrow, I can work on a more topical PbPA,

I'm going to do some analysis of two confirmed scum (camn and DGB) in the near future.

TO CAMN I'm going to do try to do a serious analysis tonight. Things have been very busy for me, but I won't dissapoint.

Personally, I would prefer a camn lynch, but I would support a xythl lynch as well.

Stark. Let's see that analysis.
So far you are all talk, no teeth. I would like to see you bring it, since you have it in for me.

[camn]

PS

+1 Cow. Results.

[camn]

KMD? I see your recap... but it doesn't seem like enough.

Point me to a stronger case.

The day has just begun!

I was told that Tarhalindur is better known as The Venerable Bede.

Is this true, Tar?

I have reason to believe his role claim. Ask no more.

Is there a "too-insane-to-be-scum" fallacy? Because I am leaning too-insane-for-scum on you and Xyl.

[camn]

Cow, night result. Now.

I was told that Tarhalindur is better known as The Venerable Bede.

Correct.

Hmm.

So now... either
a) TownCopCow and unknownTar
or
b) ScumCow and ScumTar.

Right?

Unless we think there could be a scum-NameCop? Which I have never heard of. Of course, I've never heard of a daycop-vigilante-recruiting mason-double voter either.

@scot... a double vote, as Yos pointed out, is pretty unlikey to be scum. It would throw off the endgame incredibly.
And if Xyl WERE scum.. he would have hidden his double vote UNTIL endgame, right? Not wasted it on starting a wagon.

So yeah... Xyl is about as confirmed as we have right now.

[camn]

Ah! I forgot about that too!

Well. ONE of them is town then!

Either way.. this looks like a town-fueled wagon... so

VOTE STARK

I would like to see your promised analysis.
Add OMGUS bandwagoning to your list.
Your baseless accusations of me are tiresome.

[camn]

OK.
I have done some wagon analysis.... And I have decided that KMD is scum. And I think Stark, too.

Here is my process:

4 wagons on confirmed townies (scot, I discount the stark wagon because stark is scum... but I will get to that.)

Here they are, at their peaks:

• qwints -- Kmd4390, Yosarian2, crywolf20084, camn, DrippingGoofball, hasdgfas, Xylthixlm
  zwet -- hasdgfas, Thestatusquo, Yosarian2, scotmany12, sam.samhorn, Kmd4390
  cow -- scotmany12, sam.samhorn, qwints, farside22, populartajo, Caboose, Tarhalindur
  wolf -- populartajo, Caboose, Yosarian2, stark, Tarhalindur, farside22, camn, DrippingGoofball, qwints

NOW.. I eliminate all CONFIRMED townies. I also eliminate DGB for having double-vote power. I eliminate Xly for being a mason-recruiter. I eliminate myself as obvtown, and HasCow as namecop.

• qwints -- Kmd4390, Yosarian2,
  zwet -- Thestatusquo, Yosarian2, scotmany12, sam.samhorn, Kmd4390
  cow -- scotmany12, sam.samhorn, farside22, populartajo, Tarhalindur
  wolf -- populartajo, Yosarian2, stark, Tarhalindur, farside22,

Now.. we see the 2 people on the qwints wagon. I assume at LEAST scum got on that wagon..... so one of those 2 = scum.
Then I notice that Yosarian is on 3 townie-wagons. I ask myself.. would THE Yosarian2 allow himself to be on 3 townie wagons in one day? For now, no.

Let us also notice that KMD AVOIDED being on the crywolf wagon, though he EXCELLENTLY fence-sat here:

Note that I'm still here and willing to vote Crywolf before deadline if needed.

Now when we look at stark's wagon:

• stark --
  DrippingGoofball
  , populartajo,
  crywolf20084
  ,
  Xylthixlm
  ,
  Tarhalindur
  ,
  camn

You can see by the bold how incredibly town-driven that wagon was.. adding Tar for the whole cult-vig stuff.

So.. in closing:

My scumlist =

Stark
KMD
sam.sam
Korejora

and

Yosarian

and/or

Farside

[camn]

It doesn't.

But him admitting it to defend Xyl....... maybe.
But even without him, the stark wagon was/is town-driven.

c

[camn]

Wow scum wagon.

Did you want something?

I told you what I wanted.
You continue to refuse to do it.

Do you really think that NOT doing anything in the way of analysis is good for the town?

[camn]

Wow.

I agree with Rougeben in

almost

every particular.

Either he is town.. or VERY clever scum.

c

ps.. happy 2am.

[camn]

I agree that we cant clear Yosarian... But rougeben understands my meaning.
I doubt that Yos-scum would have wagoned so many townies in one day. There is WIFOM, but he would't have known they would all be dead today, so a little less so. However, he would have known that they would eventually die....

Anyway, I take it as a town tell for now.

And Rougeben, do you agree that there must have been at leadt ONE scum on the qwints wagon? ESPECIALLY considering how scummy he was looking?

[camn]

I had some thoughts about Xly while in the shower this morning.

a) Xyl... did you say you were a one-shot?

b) Did you have anything to do with the Zwet Vig?

c) Shouldn't we just lynch Yosarian, then.. if he is unreadable? Better now than have him burn us in endgame, right?

d) Scumlist. Everyone. Now, please.

[camn]

Scumlist please scot. You too, Tajo.

[camn]

Aren't you needy!

You want Tar to elaborate for this, yet

you

ask for someone to post a case on KMD when

you

call him scummy.

scotmany12 (reaction to Xyl earlier today-someone please post a case on him)

You really do keep your opinions to yourself, dont you?
Are you planning on simply reacting to others for the rest of the game, or do we get to see your ideas sometime?

[camn]

Stark, seriously...

Whats the deal?
Are you playing this game with us, or not?

Claim or die.
Also scumlist, please..

And KMD.. you are getting to be on my radar. Lets hear what you have to say.

Xyl.. are you still sore at Kore for not voting yesterday?

And Farside... Scumlist, please.

MY revised scumlist =

Stark

(all promises, no delivery)

KMD

(process of elimination on qwints wagon)

sam.sam

(OMGUS. Plus RedSox Suck)
and

Farside

OR

scot

(lurkiness vs. anti-logic)


PS..

a side note to KMD... when I say yankees suck or redsocks suck.. I don't mean "suck" as in "bad at baseball" I mean "suck" as in "ruining baseball". I also mean "suck" as in "I hate you."

[camn]

Ok, then. Lets do it.

I go on vacation on the 17th.

I intend to see stark dead by then, unless he delivers on the following:

a) claim.
b) analysis on all players.
c) scumlist. With backup.
d) no allegories.
e) Explanations for low activity level. I see you on other games!

[camn]

Good, KMD. I am glad you are back with us.

Now:

Why did you remove yourself?

Because I am obvtown. Plus, everyone, scum or town, assumes in any argument that they are town.

Now your turn:

Basically confirmed:
Cow
Xyl

Kmd

Why are YOU confirmed?

Also, to address a few points:

A and B are rolefishing.

He already claimed. We went over this in that other game. If he already claimed.. it isn't fishing. It is clarification.

Being too successful?

So successful that the USA can lose to every other country in the world in a sport WE INVENTED?? Castro laughs at the Yankees.

[camn]

Also, to address a few points:

A and B are rolefishing.

He already claimed. We went over this in that other game. If he already claimed.. it isn't fishing. It is clarification.

Why should he give more information than needed? If he looks too powerful to scum, he's more likely to be killed. He is basically confirmed, so that is enough information for us.

Wrong.

I clarified his position as 1-shot.
If he had any ongoing day/nightchoices, I think the town deserves to be in on them.
I think this is true for any claimed VIG.. and possibly any mason-recruiter. Re: recruiters, I think is is reasonable to at least ask for a breadcrumb of members, just in case he is nightkilled.... for confirmations later in the game.

AS it stands, he is vanilla to me. CLAIMED vanilla, in fact. (you like that, Yos?)

And Rougeben is very agreeable. Maybe TOO agreeable?
I think scum sometimes buddy up to townies. But I don't think townies intentionally buddy up to scum.

[camn]

Sharing views is different from buddying up.

What are the distinguishing signs?

Examples of buddying up:

"X is so awesome they have to be town."
"X is cool." *Follows*
"<3s. That's why I play mafia with you."

Examples of sharing views:

"Yeah, you're right. X looks pretty scummy/townie."
"I see that point."
"Logical assumption."

The first group is basically just baseless compliments and following for no real reason. The second is more game-related and reasoned.

Perfect!

Thanks to you, I now know how to buddy up properly without looking scummy.
This will come in handy next time I am scum!!

[/sarcasm]

[camn]

In other news, why the hell hasnt stark claimed yet?

You can paraphrase a townie PM in minutes, but a successful fake claim can take hours, if not days.

QFT!

[camn]

Take some time to make a case against me, KMD. A player of your level would have already realized that Im obv town.

Will do. Before V/LA.

What puts camn in your absolutely scumlist KMD. I'd like a full case against him as I'm not seeing it whatsoever.

I'll do a full case before I got V/LA

Can we see these before Stark self-hammers?

?

[camn]

I have that effect on people.

[camn]

I'm noticing a pattern here... people who camn thinks is scum think camn is scum, and people who camn thinks is town think camn is town.

Um. Can't this be said for almost any player in almost any game?

IN that infamous game with the lurkerscumteam.... did I even once call you scum? Despite you pushing an INCREDIBLY tunnelvisioned crapcase on me the ENTIRE game?

no.
no I didn't.

Now.. you were able to launch a crapcase on me then.. lets see what you have now!

[camn]

God I love those diagrams....

On another point:
Yay! Finally some real cases against me!

Scum like "short-ish" days too.

So do I. Especially Day 1. Just short-ISH, though.

Not a real complete scumtell, but there is a good chance scum went after Zwet.

Actually, it looks like a day-vig went after Zwet....

You didn't believe him. See above. Why didn't you vote him?

Zwet was ALREADY a proven liar at that point. Why would I believe him? But me not believing did not equal me thinking he should hang. IIRC, DGB was throwing around mason softclaims around then, too... so I stayed away.

You admit you have no case and yet you have a problem with Scot calling it mindless.

No.
I admitted I had not STATED a case, so I question how scot could have had an opinion on it at all.

Is wanting to replace out really the reason you saw him as scummy?

Yes. Battle Mage beat me as scum once using replacing out as his 'strategy'. As you know, I have a long memory.

You aren't pushing his lynch? What are you doing then?

It is called pressure. I don't want lurkers to Hang.. I want them to PLAY MAFIA. But they need to know I am WILLING to see them hang.

You were trying to pick a fight with him? Why is that vote worthy?

You should get out on the playground more.
I wanted to attention from TSQ.
Scot kept talking to me.
I pick a fight with TSQ.
Every 6th grader understands this.

So your scumhunting so far amounts to a player talking about replacing out.

That's because replacing out is lame.

Tar's case looks like a defense of me.. so I will let it be for now!

So.. are we killing Stark, or what? I still like the idea.

[camn]

Hmm.

Looks like I have some catching up to do!

Unvote

until that happens.

PS.. Lists aside.. KMD actualy brought a CASE against me. JUst sayin.

[camn]

PS.. Lists aside.. KMD actualy brought a CASE against me. JUst sayin.

It wasn't much of a case. Kmd's case was clearly fake and horrible to try and create suspicion....

A) it was better than YOUR case against me.

B) How does his case being horrible and fake make me scum, exactly?

[camn]

God I am thrilled that KMD flipped scum!

Anyway.. I am sorry I have been a little out of it lately.
Finals + preparing for Mexico = spacey camn.

To that end.. As you know, I love attention, and I am ready for you people to bring your cases against me... but I am TOTALLY GOING ON VACATION SOON!

So sharpen your cases... get them ready, and bring them out when I get back.

That said, I don't leave until Monday night... so I have a little time.

Now.. Re: Mutual random voting, TAR....
The history of me and KMD is pretty well-trodden.
--He attacked me without mercy one game. He was wrong. I was right. (tranquility)
--The next game, I was scum.. I nightkilled him immediately. I hold a grudge. (night watch)
My first post that game?

um.....

Vote OBAMA

!!!


@KMD
Your Gambit is flawed.
But I suggest you try it again this game. I would like to see it.

HIS first post? (after mine)

Vote Camn

My Confirmation Gambit reveals that you are scum.

--This game, if I were scum, I would have nightkilled him again.. just for comedy! But I didn't. I am shocked he didn't nightkill me right away. It must be because of my charm.
--So you can see, there is certainly me/kmd early conflict meta... regardless of alignment.

[camn]

Finals + preparing for Mexico = spacey camn.

[camn]

I, for one, don't like stark's claim. I agree that it is a slightly unprovable claim that actually helps scum more than town. However, I am willing to suffer him alive for a day or two.

I think if a mafia framer turns up, it would help his claim.. but stark-scum would have known that.. so god knows.

Anyway... I say let him live for today. Tonight, Vigs will do what vigs do.

[camn]

Hey guys. Just letting you know i'm vla until tuesday

I am interested in exploring this Rougeben thing. I def agree with Xyl in 1828.. that is some serious fencesitting.

But he wont be around to answer questions till I am gone..

[camn]

There's one scum in this lot:

crywolf20084: 9 (populartajo,

Caboose

, Yosarian2, stark, Tarhalindur, farside22, camn,

DrippingGoofball

,

qwints

)

Like I said earlier, I still don't trust that kind of argument.

It worked with KMD.

[camn]

I would love to drop the Hammer on stark via my Ipod from my cabana on the beach. That would make me happy.

But I will be the first to admit, its because I think stark is worthless to this town. Which may or may not mean that he is scum. Honestly, though, KMD was more useful to us.

[camn]

1. You've missed the point again, as usual. The distance between history and role is not my concern in disbelieving Hascow's claim. it is my concern because of the distance that

this information is not useful

, and is

not a likely role

.

Quick question, stark.

Is your role a likely one, and/or is it useful? If so, how?

[camn]

Kmd4390 -

Prince John, Mafia Roleblocker

- Felled by an Arrow Day Two

Vote Count:

8 to lynch

stark: 7 (Xylthixlm, Xylthixlm, Tarhalindur, DrippingGoofball, camn, Rogueben, farside22)
camn: 1 (sam.samhorn)

Not Voting: 6 (hasdgfas, Korejora, stark, populartajo, Yoasarian2, scotmany12)

PS..

Why is it 8 to lynch? I certainly suck at math, but I count 13 players...... Does the double vote count as a person, too?

[camn]

Camn has said nothing of substance this game and only posts for the sake of posting. She is so incredibly mafia.

Cite, please.
Show me how this is anything other than an OMGUS accusation.

[camn]

When night comes around, I'll investigate...

What exactly DOES this mean?

Oh. and I just had a thought.

(here is where I actually defend stark better than he has bothered to defend himself)

Given that there is a dayvig, plus a NightVig GROUP . . . I think it is very reasonable to think that a gunsmith role exists. Or a tracker.. or some other nonspecific investigator.

THUS.. I suddenly believe stark's claim a little more, though I still hate his play. If he had been townie enough to get picked to a Vig group.. his "passive ability" would thwart investigation then, too, right? Maybe that is what OGML was thinking when he dreamed up that ability. With all these killing forces out there, there might even be scum-aligned gunsmiths or trackers! So stark would be like a ninja-vig. THUS, a mafia framer need not exist, since there are apparently multiple townies killing people off.

It still doesn't help us in any way.
Plus it doesn't make him 'confirmable'.

[camn]

stark. And you could argue Tar, too, but not near as hard.

@DGB, by 'bussed', do you mean it in the classic sense of scum vs scum? I think it's a little odd for scum to try and go after camn (if she's town), as she's not exactly an easy target right now.

Also this.
Why exactly hasnt Rogueben claimed yet?

He is VLA till Tuesday.

[camn]

I'd like to hear his defense first...

[camn]

When night comes around, I'll investigate, but I think you've secured yourself a good position.

Are you officially changing your claim?

Investigate using my powers of reading through 30+ pages.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that you will survive until the beginning of Day 3 without posting some kind of analysis on Day 2.

I suggest you reconsider that assumption.

Sincerely,
Tarhalindur, vig-mason representative

Please.

Stark has been promising to do some analysis for, like, three weeks.
He clearly does NOT intend to do it.

This is the greatest one, from March 1st:

TO CAMN

I'm going to do try to do a serious analysis tonight. Things have been very busy for me, but I won't dissapoint.

Trust me, this is not the first time a high school boy has disappointed me.


And DGB.. stop distancing from me! Lets just check on stark and sam's alignment first.. and slander my good name second, OK?

[camn]

Even OGML can't believe it.

[camn]

Even OGML can't believe it.

Yeah, it probably is hard to believe that I've caught two scum in one day.

Alright, for serious.

I am getting tired of Yosarian taking credit for "catching" KMD. He keeps repeating it over and over.. and I would like to point something out:

FIRST. Mar 9, 5:20pm

OK.
I have done some wagon analysis.... And I have decided that KMD is scum....
My scumlist =

Stark
KMD
sam.sam
Korejora

and

Yosarian

and/or

Farside

Notice Yosarian on my scumlist. Also, at this time, IIRC, Yos was arguing with POPTAJO about cults and stuff.

THEN>>>March 10, 12:32pm

c) Shouldn't we just lynch Yosarian, then.. if he is unreadable? Better now than have him burn us in endgame, right?

Pfffttt. No one is unreadable.

Anyway, KMD's recent posts seem off to me;..blah blah scum-bussing-justification,

vote:Kmd

NOW, Yos is claiming to have "caught" KMD...

YOSARIAN IS SUSPECT!!

This behavior is odd. I can only conclude that:

a) Yos is scum
b) Yos is sofclaiming DayVig
c) Yos is delusional.

Which is it, my friend?

[camn]

Ps...

I leave for the airport very soon..

Thus, you can defame me without the benefit of my defense for more than a week.
I will try to keep up on my Ipod.. but I can hardly type on that thing... so don't expect much.

c

[camn]

Gosh you guys.. I DO love attention. DGB is right. but you should know...

a) My meta is like a cloud. Always changing.

b) I go on vacation in 3 hours.

c) I REALLY want to be here for this discussion! Please save it till I get back!!!!!

d) we won that game I like winning. But I hate lurkers.. as is plainly shown.

[camn]

I'll lay a vote on him before I go... just so I am on the record...

Vote Stark

Because you are useless....

And DGB.. I am still brazen!
See you next week, suckers!

[camn]

Hi from mexico! I follow Tars logic and approve this lynch.

A final note to Xylth...
It occured to me that if there are scum on your mason-team . . They might try and combine nightkills (both scum and vig) to kill off the town part.

So, like... If Tar-town is vigged, and another mason-townie is nk'ed, you would be the one who knows who is left...and you have almost confirmed scum.

You probably already thought of it, but I thought Id mention it, anyway.

[camn]

Stark, scumhunt or die.

[camn]

obviously, Tar and DGB have some serious town-knowledge. I support their statements totally

I'm still in mexico, and ipod typing sucks.... But I am trying.

[camn]

here are my thoughts:

Town=

DGB
Slicey
Camn
Tar
Possibly Poptajo

Scum is in:
Kore
Stark
Scot
Sam
Possibly farside

Cases when I get back. I suppprt massclaim. Tar + DGB = win.

[camn]

now isn't the time. When I get back, maybe.... But for now, scumhunt or die.

[camn]

seriously, stark? Is you dying in the best interest of the town?

Hunt now, please.

[camn]

so, look. To all townies:

Unless some serious changes happen... This is how it is going to go:

Today, Stark and Scot will die.
If scot flips town, Korejora will die tonight.
If scot flips scum, farside dies tonight.

If that doesnt end the game, then Tar will almost certainly die by Mafia-kill.
After that, we will proceed to lynch Kore(or farside), Pop, then Slicey until all scum are dead.

Anyone who fails to comply with this plan is scum.
Any questions?

[camn]

oops... I forgot Sam. He dies before Pop!

[camn]

Look... I cant really do the math with this much Tequila on board... But i say kill both scot and Kore, right? Starting with scot.

Assuming sam doesnt claim Aquinas as well.

[camn]

sam: claim or die.

No need to read up.

[camn]

no replacements!
Have patience young DGB.
If sam must die, we want SAM to die! Not some poor replacement.

What is the status with Stark?
IMO, if stark is town, he is simply a terrible player... Unless he has a post restriction or something.

[camn]

hey Kore!

Why aren't you voting?
You think that you would be suspicious of scot, right?

Whats the deal?

[camn]

Hi guys.

Back from mexico... trying to catch up.

Off the cuff, I don't see Kore pulling a gambit like this... I say we lynch them both.
But I am rereading soon.

[camn]

OK.

Here is how I figure the math:

Tar has two mason buddies, right?
2 nights have gone by, and no masons have turned up nightkilled, so I am assuming that all of them are town.
Thus, my allegiance is with Tar.

SO... Tar and friends get a kill tonight and tomorrow.. and MAYBE the third day, assuming there IS one and that a solo-mason can kill while being nightkilled? (I know big assumption.. can it happen?)

That means, counting our dayvig....the numbers are as so:

NOW = 10 alive. (lets assume, conservatively, 7:3)
3 die today/tonight by town... 1 by scum.
Worst case scenario? tomorrow it is 3:3 - Lylo, since Mason Vig can still kill.

Thus I propose EVERYONE state which 3 people they would like to see Day-Vigged, Lynched, or Night-Vigged TODAY/tonight

If/Then statements are OK.. but keep it simple.

I will start

Scot
Stark
Sam

Then Slicey can Name-check Korejora tonight.
If inconsistent, then Kore Dies.

I assume at least ONE scum in those 3... so tomorrow we will be at 4:2 or 5:1.. depending on how many scum. I like those odds... considering Tar can confirm at least 1, maybe 2 tomorrow.

[camn]

@ Slicey:

What exactly would be the point of you scanning anyone other than Kore or Scot?

@ Tar .. are we calling for full claims? or just name-claims? Cuz I don't remember Kore fullclaiming.

[camn]

How would you find a SK by name alone?

And why would anyone lie, given that all have known about you forever?

[camn]

So it seems that Tar picks up even the tiniest of breadcrumbs.

It is true.. I am the Dayvig.
My rolename is NOT robin Hood, though.. I am Hereward the Wake.
This figure is indeed the model for the Robin Hood legends.
He also is mentioned in the song "Let there be More Light", the first Pink Floyd song to feature Gilmour on lead. Thus my post #11 breadcrumb.

Regarding my Post #292 breadcrumb....All you Biblical scholars know that, in the 1st book of Samuel it states:
"And I will shoot three arrows on the side thereof, as though I shot at a mark".
Thank you OGML for actually using

arrows

in the flavor. That was nice.

I have 3 arrows.
I vigged Zwet, because he was distracting us from hunting.
I vigged KMD, because I knew he was scum. I think I was pretty clear in taking credit for it.

I plan on Vigging Scot now, to clear up this counterclaim business... if no one has any objections.

Any questions?

Oh, and:

seriously, stark? Is you dying in the best interest of the town?

Hunt now, please.

After I am informed as to why you are not scum.

How about now, then?

[camn]

Convince me of a better way to settle the issue?

[camn]

PS, Tar.. I couldn't agree more with your logic.

The odds of us missing scum with our 3 kills/lynches today/tonight AND missing 2 times tomorrow day/night........

Zero point Zero.

So, should I take care of Scot, and leave Sam to the Lynch or maybe you guys later?

Oh and Please....

BTW my next post will also have why camn is mafia and needs to die ASAP

You promised Lets see the goods.

[camn]

Ok. Kore, then.

Which is a shame, because I like Kore more than I do scot..... but I don't see them both making it to endgame, anyway... so why not?

Tar? What say you?

On the other hand, I would LOVE to vig stark, just on principle. I totally hope you guys take care of him tonight.

[camn]

Yes, I am counterclaiming Aquinas.

Why would you risk lynching scot or myself today? Have Slicey check our names tonight, and lynch based on that.

If he lies, you have paid one townie for two scum.
If he tells the truth, you get to lynch a scum and keep a sure townie.
If the scum kill him to keep him quiet, one of their kills has been pulled away from your cool kids in-group and onto the not-so-confirmed group, making your grand plan a lot more airtight.

See the above? I think she KNOWS that Slicey will back up her fakeclaim.

OR, she knows that her claim is true.


But it isn't relevant. We can't really suffer either of them to live. They both die before endgame... unless we catch all scum first.

Real question: Could there be 2 TOWN Aquinas roles really?
I think not.. which means kill them both, and we kill one scum, minimum.

[camn]

I would LOVE to vig Stark.

Stark.. any last words?

[camn]

BTW my next post will also have why camn is mafia and needs to die ASAP

First this, big boy.
Or are you afraid to build a crapcase now?

[camn]

So.. are the 4 of us agreed? I can kill stark, like I have wanted to ALL GAME LONG????

[camn]

OK.

Sometimes I am ambivalent, but I like stark dead be he town or scum.
He hasn't helped us so far, he will only be a problem in the endgame... if there is one.

[camn]

too bad you didn't play better... You could have actually helped us.

The kill is already in. OGML is just sleeping.

[camn]

well, if you have anything useful.... Now is the time.

[camn]

hmm.
Well, although I wish Starkvwas scum....
He wasnt.

That said.. At leadt I am just a vanilla townie now!
I have used my 3 kills.. Now I am free of all the stress!

So. We lynch one of you... And if you flip town, Tar kills the other one.
Done deal!
Make your cases, sir and madam!

[camn]

Gosh..

Why did Stark fake-claim as town? And so terribly?

These nightkill-immune townies could have been VERY HELPFUL to us.

Anyway.. I now propose we lynch both Kore and Scot until we find scum... but we DON'T attempt a mason kill on either of them. I am seeing pairs.
2 Martyrs,
2 NK-Immune townies...

I forsee another NK-Immune Mafia in our future.

So,

Vote KoreJora

Xly wanted her dead.
Scot seems rational.

Slicey.. please name-check Scot tonight if you can. Tomorrow we can use that info.
If you are scum and this IS a gambit, you are going to need to follow it through to the end.

Masons: I say don't kill Scot... regardless of Kore's alignment. Lets see what Slicey has to say tomorrow.
Instead, I would request you destroy sam.samhorn. I feel scum from him:

[camn]

Well, I think thats the hammer.

Scot... any reason that they shouldn't kill you tonight?
Just asking.

[camn]

Oh, sorry.. I meant SAM.... any reason they shouldn't kill you?

I already know why Scot should survive!

c

[camn]

I think

I

am.

[camn]

Please, Slicey.

It is confirmed that you have the Role you say you do.
You could still be scum.

[camn]

anyone can be a SK.

[camn]

Just had a thought....

I've never played as a SK.. but how brilliant would it be to just NOT kill anyone until the end. Be like, 'Surprise! I win.'

Wheres OGML?

Kore! Tar Hammered. Are you scum?

[camn]

I support a samhorn lynch.
If he flips town, I support a Farside Vig, Tar.

Sam.. any last words?

c

[camn]

OK.

Scot. I have two votes.
I am going to hammer you.

Speak now, or forever hold your peace.

[camn]

Oops. I mean Sam.

I keep mixing them up!

[camn]

i can wait.

But I will hammer.

Everyone speak your peace.

[camn]

I couldn't win as an SK at this point... so its not relevant.

But I was looking at this fun scenario:

Say...we lynch town-samhorn.
Tar Vigs town-Slicey, and scum kill town-Pop.
Tar and scum-farside Lynch town(or SK)-camn
Then Tar Vigs scum-farside while scum-farside kills town-tar.

End result: Reservoir Dogs. Everyone dead.

It is almost interesting enough to hope for!

[camn]

I agree, I think the last scum are Sam and/or farside.

I am no SK, but even if I WERE... both the town and an SK can agree on killing scum.

[camn]

I agree, I think the last scum are Sam and/or farside.

I am no SK, but even if I WERE... both the town and an SK can agree on killing scum.

why did u pick sam? only cuz farside voted him first which its strange since farside seems to know more of the game than her current lurky play

I haven't voted yet. I will vote either Sam or Farside. ....

But that aside, Let us discuss this SK issue.

How can I convince you, Tar? At this point, I am willing to die.. I forsee a town win even with me dead.... but I would like to at least take a chance at nailing the last scum with Farside or Sam.

[camn]

Ah-ha!

I thought of some evidence to my innocence.

DAY 1, before my first vig.. I breadcrumbed that I had THREE ARROWS.
It was my Samuel 20:20 biblical breadcrumb.

How would I have known to specify 3 arrows way back then? Not 4, not 2... remember the mason group was unknown... so I would have anticipated a much longer game, I think, if I was planning a fake-claim

Your thoughts?

For reference:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 04#1496104

[camn]

Side note to camn: We should not lynch until all three of the other claimed vanillas have answered my question. I don't want to see a hammer anytime soon.

You got it. My vote(s) is belong to you..

I agree with your previous plan.. though I think the odds of Slicy-scum are small. I think if samhorn and farside die, the game = over.

PS.. for roundup purposes:

3.

Slicey

claimed Tomas de Torquemada - Name Cop
8.

camn

claimed Hereward the Wake - Dayvig
12.

sam.samhorn

claimed - Leif Erickson - Vanilla
14.

Tarhalindur

claimed The Venerable Bede - vanilla - mason vig.
15.

populartajo

claimed - Genghis Khan - Vanilla
18.

farside22

claimed - Dante Alighieri - Vanilla

Now, my thoughts:
Fake claiming Genghis Kahn would be insane.
I also think that Slicey is real. Balance wise, it seems to make sense to me. If he is the last scum, that is essentially me and 4 vanillas? crazytalk.
One or two of the vanillas must be the scum. My money is on it being samhorn, and samhorn alone.

Re: pop's balance comments earlier: We got lucky that Xyl picked all townies for the Mason-group. It could easily have gone the other way, and the mafia could have control of the mason-group by now! That would give the scum double-kills every night, and totally swung things. So balance wise.. it is complicated!

[camn]

I agree completely.
As far as I am concerned, All the Mason-Vigs are confirmed town.

The simple fact that they vigged Scot last night is enough for me. If you are scum, and you control two kills.. and you are about to lose.........
that is not the time to Vig your own guy.

So... Masons = town.

Slicey.. do you seriously disagree with this line of reasoning? If so, please explain. Why would Tar have Vigged his buddy.. when he easily could have vigged, say.. You for instance? Or Samhorn? Or Farside? (ONE of those must be town, right?!)