Martyr Mafia - Game Over

[X]

It's

possible

likely god would vote qwints to distance from him.

Fixed.

Okay, so Jebus is one big pile of WIFOM right now.

I'm absolutely willing to bet he's not town. The problem is, town that we want dead or not...I can still see him as a possible God because qwints tried to paint him as a CL, and said that he was trying to help God. He also definitely was scummy with his Nietzsche-slip thing, something that is not so much something cult would say as much as God. It's a doozy.

The Zakeri vote and then subsequent WIFOM is also interesting. Zakeri called qwints "opportunistic" for his vote. Qwints switched to another target like he did other times without saying what that does to his suspicion on the previous vote. But how did he come to this conclusion after voting for Zakeri:

There are a lot more players in the game than just Zakeri. Would God really have been the first player run up so fast?

Granted, the wagon was early and Zakeri STILL hasn't fully defended against it, but this quote is probably the only instance where qwints says he doesn't suspect someone.

QFT.

the recruit would have lost their win condition and is "praying" for recruitment.

I LOVE THIS PUN. Sorry, had to say it.

A christian recruit is still possible if qwints was lying. I'm doubtful of it, but it should still be noted because that's potentially one more player who does not want to lynch God.

The game is unwinnable for that player, if they exist.

That doesn't matter. What matters is that their only chance of winning would be getting recruited and lynching the other CL before God. Therefore, another player who doesn't want God dead.

Actually Jahudo is right. Al has big probs of being god just reading alone this post. Notice the number of the word "god" in this post.

QFT. Except for the last sentence, which is IMO a null-tell.

[zwetschenwasser]

Ting, am I not allowed to switch opinions?

[Double A]

Yay! Day two!



So we got the Christian, well at least there is one less cult to worry about.

[pacman281292]

Due to Internet issues, I'll be V/la at least 'till March 1.

[zwetschenwasser]

Double A's post sounds like he wants another cult dead.

[xofelf]

yeah i meant to make an official post but i got side-tracked by people....

Unfortunately i don't happen to have the time tonight to make an actual post....sometimes college is a pain in the ass with all the assignments they give us.... anyways, even if i have to totally ignore people tomorrow, i promise to make a real post.

[Jahudo]

Yay! Day two!



So we got the Christian, well at least there is one less cult to worry about.

Why did you ignore qwints day 1?

Notice the number of the word "god" in this post.

I'm more concerned with the way he talked about god, how he was excited about the lynch when previously he never acknowledged qwints, and how he voted qwints even though someone had hammered. I wonder if that still counts as bussing if he's god?

[zwetschenwasser]

I guess it does in a sense...

[SilverPhoenix]

Notice the number of the word "god" in this post.

I'm more concerned with the way he talked about god, how he was excited about the lynch when previously he never acknowledged qwints, and how he voted qwints even though someone had hammered. I wonder if that still counts as bussing if he's god?

A mistake that some scum tend to make is saying a lot of "if I were ____,..." statements to get their opinion across, basically meaning that they are more likely to be ____ because they have to go about mentioning it every two sentences since they want to tell you, but obviously can't. So I see where Jahudo is coming from. I'm wary of the post by al too, as it sounded pretty opportunistic there (posting a post-hammer vote with excitement).

And yes, it is still a bus, since God knows who they are and he is knowingly lynching/voting him anyway. But the real question is does God actually want to kill cult leaders? Yes and no. While the cult leaders depend on God to win, God could care less if the cult leaders are alive. However, if a cult gets close to winning, it is in God's interest to prevent that from happening as he cannot win with the cult (as Nietzsche would probably still be alive). In this case, I think it is plausible that God bussed qwints. It is also plausible if he didn't either, considering that his lynch had heavy support.

Also, considering that God killed EA last night, I'm now more inclined to believe that Jebus is CL. This is still dependent on if qwints was telling the truth, which I put at 33% (that he is truthful). He was spewing quite a bit of lies near the end, so I'm taking his revelations with a grain of salt. But since any lead is a lead for God, the fact that he didn't kill Jebus makes the possible role list: agnostic, CL, recruit, Nietzsche (in that order).

[Double A]

Double A's post sounds like he wants another cult dead.

Sure, why not.

[zwetschenwasser]

Double A's post sounds like he wants another cult dead.

Sure, why not.

Vote: DoubleA

[Zakeri]

Double A's post sounds like he wants another cult dead.

Sure, why not.

Because then the Third Cult wins.

[Bloodmoney]

Also, the fact God didn't night-kill Jebus last night (i.e. because he already knows he's not Nietzsche despite qwints tipping him off) means he's pretty much guaranteed to be a cult leader.

No. It more likely means that qwints was trying to fool us and Jebus is God.

al_kohaulec "HAMMAH'ed" qwints but really the hammer had already happened. He didn't show any sign of suspecting qwints before that post and in fact said he didn't understand the wagon in post 680. His late fake-hammer could be an attempt to look town after the damage was already done. It is the best example of possible distancing I see here.

This is a good point.

Jahudo: Easily one of the stronger pushers for the qwints wagon. I don't like that he hopped off after qwints claimed recruit though.

Mykonian: Hop.
I also don't like how he unvoted when qwints claimed recruit.

I think they're rival cult and they didn't want a simple recruit dead. They were likely aiming for a leader (which they eventually got).

Yay! Day two!



So we got the Christian, well at least there is one less cult to worry about.

cult leader/culted, although I don't know what idiot would cult Double A

My candidates for god are Jebus and al, al less likely because it was Jahudo (cult candidate) who made the point against him. Likely cult: mykonian, Jahudo, Double A.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm all for lynching Jebus. He was distanced from by a lot of people yesterday.

[Jahudo]

A mistake that some scum tend to make is saying a lot of "if I were ____,..." statements to get their opinion across, basically meaning that they are more likely to be ____ because they have to go about mentioning it every two sentences since they want to tell you, but obviously can't.

Wait, scum wants to tell people they're scum?

Also, considering that God killed EA last night, I'm now more inclined to believe that Jebus is CL. This is still dependent on if qwints was telling the truth, which I put at 33% (that he is truthful). He was spewing quite a bit of lies near the end, so I'm taking his revelations with a grain of salt. But since any lead is a lead for God, the fact that he didn't kill Jebus makes the possible role list: agnostic, CL, recruit, Nietzsche (in that order).

If Jebus is agnostic that would mean qwints didn't try and recruit him but just picked Jebus out of a hat, or saw the suspicion on Jebus earlier and picked him for that. So if Jebus isn't cult then why didn't God kill him? How did God know qwints was lying about trying to recruit Jebus?

If qwints was telling the truth, Jebus is probably a CL because otherwise he'd be nightkilled I think.

[xofelf]

Okay....I promised a real post. The only problem is, i have no idea where to start...there's so much that needs covered.
This probably isn't the best idea or one that people would like, but if i could have certain points people would like addressed, i can do that....but with me having to move next week, life is nuts and i can't seem to think straight. I don't want to replace out or anything, but it may actually come to that....but i'll do my best so it isn't. So if people could bear with me and possibly help me out a bit until i get settled, that would be awesome, thanks.

[ortolan]

Out of all the people who just hopped though, he clearly tried to push the case - but not till after qwints' CL claim. Obviously, agnostics have a lot of reason to want to kill a CL, but I could see him as a rival CL. The fact that his vote was last minute (L-1, and less than 24 hours from lynch) also makes me think he could be God who realized there was no way to save his CL already. Of course; with deadline approaching, I could also see a possibility of agnostic who just didn't want a no lynch, but I don't think so.

His cult leader claim changed the dynamics entirely. It made his lynch far, far more desirable, to everyone but him. If I was culted killing a recruit would have been quite useful to me, also. Plus him revealing he had initially lied about his claim increased the likelihood he was actually lying at a further level, and was in fact God.

I think the likelihood that qwints was lying and Jebus is God is actually very low- if he was successful in getting Jebus (God) lynched instead of him he would lost anyway.

Also, the fact God didn't night-kill Jebus last night (i.e. because he already knows he's not Nietzsche despite qwints tipping him off) means he's pretty much guaranteed to be a cult leader.

No. It more likely means that qwints was trying to fool us and Jebus is God.

Why?

I'm all for lynching Jebus. He was distanced from by a lot of people yesterday.

What about the possibility he's a cult leader and we will lose by doing so?

[al_kohaulec]

Also, the fact God didn't night-kill Jebus last night (i.e. because he already knows he's not Nietzsche despite qwints tipping him off) means he's pretty much guaranteed to be a cult leader.

No. It more likely means that qwints was trying to fool us and Jebus is God.

I'm less inclined to believe that Jebus is god. I need to do a reread on qwints, but his last claim did sound like an act of desparation. We were talking about lynching Jebus the following day if he was still alive, and with the noose already around qwints' neck, he wouldn't want to throw in God's name and get him lynched as well.

Also, since qwints is dead, he lost. There's nothing he can do now, it's simply game over. There's little reason to try to fool us now, so it's reasonable he was telling the truth, which lends to the idea that jebus is a cult leader.



@anybody accusing me of being god, this sounds very opportunistic to get a lynch on just an anybody today. I replaced in, and didn't know anything of what everybody else knew as of that time. I didn't even know the rules that were stated in the signup thread, but not in the game thread. I had 5 posts before my vote for qwints:

1 saying I'm here
1 saying jebus didn't tell me anything in his update he gave me
1 saying it looks like SP made a scumslip, and an update on how far I've read (7 pages)
1 with another update on what I've read, unofficial vote count, and a comment on qwints:

I don't know why Qwints has so many votes, I expect it's something I haven't read yet.

1 reinforcing jahudo's catch of DGB unvoting and revoting the same person in one post. I noticed this only because I was doing the unofficial vote count.

So I hardly mentioned anybody in any of my prior posts. I also mentioned that I hadn't read everything yet, I was still on page 15. The last post of mine before voting qwints was on Feb 18. On Feb 20, qwints started digging his hole when he claimed he's been culted. Then he changed his mind and claimed cult leader. This is what he did that IMO made him very suspicious, and with the level of votes on him as opposed to any other player, there's no reason to attempt a lynch on another player so close to deadline with nobody else close to being lynched. Qwints's poor actions indicated that he wasn't agnostic or Nitz, that would be just stupid, so at the very worst, he was a cultist, and much better than a no lynch.

I threw on an extra "just in case" vote, and stated it was such as well, just in case there had been a mistake in the vote count, if somebody had unvoted in between, or if somebody who voted before me did similar to DGB and revoted the same player. That would be an incredibly stupid reason to not arrive at a lynch on such a suspicious player, so I placed my vote to make sure nothing small and stupid like that happened.

So any suspicion on me because of qwints is ridiculous. It's been stated qwints made no connections to me in any way, good or bad, and yet a small number of you are automatically assuming I'm God. The players that qwints was trying to protect are at the top of my suspicion list, but the ones attacking me for such faulty logic are right under them. I believe them most likely to be either CLs or cultists, though.

[al_kohaulec]

Well, this one is easy.

vote: Jebus

This is qwints's first post. My interpretation of this combined with his CL claim:

"I tried to cult Jebus, and failed. Cult attempts on Nitz will fail. Jebus is Nitz and killing him fulfills my god's win condition. Otherwise I'm lynching an opposing cult leader, and I will come closer to winning. This is easy."

Throughout all of D1, qwints is gunning for Jebus's lynch, and believing Jebus's claim that he failed to recruit Jebus makes the most sense in trying to understand why he's gunning so hard for his lynch. If qwints knew Jebus was god, some may argue this, but I wouldn't expect qwints to give him so much attention and try to push votes onto him.

EA's tunnel vision is unhelpful. There are a lot more players in the game than just Zakeri. Would God really have been the first player run up so fast?

This is the only time I saw qwints supports any other player. There's reason to believe from this that Zakeri could be god and he's trying to sway suspicion on Zakeri, but we should find other evidence of this before jumping to that conclusion because this evidence is really miniscule.

Happy birthday Jahudo!

This game has been a lot messier than some of my others so I'm giving it less attention. I'm still pretty sure that Jebus knows who god actually is, but I'm in favor of killing annoying people.

vote: zwet

This caught my eye because qwints knows who god is, giving him an advantage in figuring out who else knows who god is. Jebus likely being a cult leader alludes to the fact that he does know who god is. So I'm going to look at Jebus's posts next.

[X]

Double A's post sounds like he wants another cult dead.

Sure, why not.

Vote: DoubleA

Ah, but this reaction is also telling. If Double A wants another cult dead, he's either misguided or cult. I'd lean toward the former, but even if it is the latter, we don't want him dead.

FoS: ZSW

.

I really want Jebus to post something substantial soon.

Also, the fact God didn't night-kill Jebus last night (i.e. because he already knows he's not Nietzsche despite qwints tipping him off) means he's pretty much guaranteed to be a cult leader.

No. It more likely means that qwints was trying to fool us and Jebus is God.

Either.

A mistake that some scum tend to make is saying a lot of "if I were ____,..." statements to get their opinion across, basically meaning that they are more likely to be ____ because they have to go about mentioning it every two sentences since they want to tell you, but obviously can't.

Wait, scum wants to tell people they're scum?

I imagine that they subconsciously might in some cases. It'd be a form of gloating. But I don't see how it applies in this situation, because I don't see what God would have to gloat about.

@anybody accusing me of being god, this sounds very opportunistic to get a lynch on just an anybody today. I replaced in, and didn't know anything of what everybody else knew as of that time. I didn't even know the rules that were stated in the signup thread, but not in the game thread. I had 5 posts before my vote for qwints:

1 saying I'm here
1 saying jebus didn't tell me anything in his update he gave me
1 saying it looks like SP made a scumslip, and an update on how far I've read (7 pages)
1 with another update on what I've read, unofficial vote count, and a comment on qwints:

I don't know why Qwints has so many votes, I expect it's something I haven't read yet.

1 reinforcing jahudo's catch of DGB unvoting and revoting the same person in one post. I noticed this only because I was doing the unofficial vote count.

You hit it right on the money. Except this is

why

we're suspecting you. As far as we can tell, you might have just thrown on your vote to appear this way. You didn't explain your vote, and although I agree that it was a good person to vote for, it looked opportunistic.

Well, this one is easy.

vote: Jebus

This is qwints's first post. My interpretation of this combined with his CL claim:

"I tried to cult Jebus, and failed. Cult attempts on Nitz will fail. Jebus is Nitz and killing him fulfills my god's win condition. Otherwise I'm lynching an opposing cult leader, and I will come closer to winning. This is easy."

That makes a lot of sense. However, it could also be, "Vote: God." Not the most logical move, but distancing is natural, and when you only know one "partner"...

[SilverPhoenix]

If Jebus is agnostic that would mean qwints didn't try and recruit him but just picked Jebus out of a hat, or saw the suspicion on Jebus earlier and picked him for that. So if Jebus isn't cult then why didn't God kill him? How did God know qwints was lying about trying to recruit Jebus?

Basically, I meant that Jebus is most likely agnostic because qwints has a high chance of lying about the whole Jebus thing.

A mistake that some scum tend to make is saying a lot of "if I were ____,..." statements to get their opinion across, basically meaning that they are more likely to be ____ because they have to go about mentioning it every two sentences since they want to tell you, but obviously can't.

Wait, scum wants to tell people they're scum?

I imagine that they subconsciously might in some cases. It'd be a form of gloating.

But I don't see how it applies in this situation, because I don't see what God would have to gloat about.

The bolded is correct. Not saying that this is a case of that, but I have seen it before. And God would gloat about getting away with being suspected, but not lynched, but TBH that's a pretty weak explanation.

[Bloodmoney]

I'm less inclined to believe that Jebus is god. I need to do a reread on qwints, but his last claim did sound like an act of desparation. We were talking about lynching Jebus the following day if he was still alive, and with the noose already around qwints' neck, he wouldn't want to throw in God's name and get him lynched as well.

Also, since qwints is dead, he lost. There's nothing he can do now, it's simply game over. There's little reason to try to fool us now, so it's reasonable he was telling the truth, which lends to the idea that jebus is a cult leader.

That's a good point on qwints having lost already.

Either way my statement that Jebus being God is more likely based on qwints' final words is BS. And DGBcult's pavlovian reaction implies Jebus is a CL rather than God. ortolan and X are either still untouched or pay more attention.

Ah, but this reaction is also telling. If Double A wants another cult dead, he's either misguided or cult. I'd lean toward the former, but even if it is the latter, we don't want him dead. FoS: ZSW.

Ah, but if he's a simple recruit we

do

want him dead. Even if it's particularly unlikely that any idiot following the game would cult Double A.

That makes a lot of sense. However, it could also be, "Vote: God." Not the most logical move, but distancing is natural, and when you only know one "partner"...

I agree with al here. A CL wouldn't keep pushing a wagon that has potential for a lynch if the lynchee was God.

Basically, I meant that Jebus is most likely agnostic because qwints has a high chance of lying about the whole Jebus thing.

So why, again, didn't God kill Jebus? You sir are bullshitting and want for some reason to be able to call Jebus agnostic.

[Double A]

Double A's post sounds like he wants another cult dead.

Sure, why not.

Because then the Third Cult wins.

Oh... wow...

Uh... ok, let's not kill another cult, I had no idea that would happen...

Wait, what if God killed one cult and his son killed the other one IN THE SAME NIGHT?

[SilverPhoenix]

Basically, I meant that Jebus is most likely agnostic because qwints has a high chance of lying about the whole Jebus thing.

So why, again, didn't God kill Jebus? You sir are bullshitting and want for some reason to be able to call Jebus agnostic.

Which is why I said the next viable role for Jebus that I said was CL. Stop putting words in my mouth when I clearly said otherwise, as in the obvious bold.

Also, considering that God killed EA last night,

I'm now more inclined to believe that Jebus is CL

.

This is still dependent on if qwints was telling the truth, which I put at 33% (that he is truthful). He was spewing quite a bit of lies near the end,

so I'm taking his revelations with a grain of salt. But since any lead is a lead for God, the fact that he didn't kill Jebus makes the possible role list: agnostic, CL, recruit, Nietzsche (in that order).

However, also note the italics. Let's look at what qwints said yesterday (in isolated posts):
P14: "I am culted."

LIE

P15: Clarification: "Yes I am a recruit."

LIE

P16: Complete turnaround to saying he's CL, and framing Jebus for either being Nietzsche, CL, or God

Truth, ???

Why should I take his word for truth? He only said one truth in those three posts. Give me a good reason.

And stop being belligerent. It really just looks like you want me dead, now that you slipped in accusing me of something I didn't say.

[zwetschenwasser]

I am much less inclined to think that Jebus is God.