Mini 768- Root of All Evil (Game Over)

[sekinj]

hey guys

[sekinj]

wow. a busy day...

verb - now that ssk has replaced in, have you moved your vote because it was no longer on what you considered the weakest player? do you now consider the molester the weakest player? or have you moved your vote because of your suspicion of molester? I'm just trying to figure out if the 'weakest player' bit had any validity to it, or if you ONLY picked that player becuase he/she had not yet confirmed. therefore was useful in your presentation of your 'plan', which in reality was just a mechanic to spark discussion.

[sekinj]

Trust me I think Verbosity is blowing wind, and stirring up more trouble then they are worth, but still I am going on the vote that they are townie.

With that said though, and the fact Verbosity has us focused on someone we shouldn't, we might as well make Verbosity the day one lynch.

how can you say these two lines one right after each other? Please choose A OR B below

A) Verb is a zealous townie
B) Verb is the scummiest person today

It can't be both as you seem to think in the above quote.

[sekinj]

You're probably the smartest player in this game.

You could tell after just 2 posts? *blush* It takes most people the whole game to figure that out

[sekinj]

gateway - don't forget to answer post 59 as well, please.

[sekinj]

Sekinj: Why are you not voting? Surely there's enough information to scrounge a vote from, and the random voting stage is well over with.

Those voting Gateway: Why do you think that his play is indicative of scum, rather than stupid?

I'd like an answer from gateway before I vote him.

gateway may be inexperienced on mafiascum, but I can't give him a free pass for that.

[sekinj]

I guess he isn't going to answer me...

Gateway: You cannot vote for a player you think is town, no matter if it is Day 1 or not. mafiascum townies don't put other townies on the chopping block except by mistake.

Vote: Gateway

[sekinj]

yeah, I certainly didn't see that response, since my question involved an A and B choice. The structure of my question was important, and equally important is your refusal to follow that structure. The structure was to demonstrate that both cannot be true. Your answer demonstrates that you are still sitting the fence, and had you vote on someone you thougth as a townie. you only removed it when you got pressure for it.

[sekinj]

^ @gateway

just because you have replied doesn't mean your answer is satisfactory or that is absolves you.

[sekinj]

no, sitting the fence IS NOT townie. I think you were attempting to get verb lynched, and still be able to come back tomorrow and defend yourself when he flipped town.

I asked you a simple question with an A and B answer. you could not provide that answer. which shows you think it is okay to vote for a townie. that is scummy.

[sekinj]

A) Verb is a zealous townie
B) Verb is the scummiest person today

Please explain again how it can possibly be both.

[sekinj]

ok... why didn't you answer that way the first time I asked the question?

[sekinj]

unvote

I severly doubt gateway could have made up that role.

[sekinj]

unvote

I severly doubt gateway could have made up that role.

You don't know about safeclaims?

I've never played in a game that I received a safe claim in my pm... so no, I actually don't know exactly how they work... and didn't consider them before my unvote.

[sekinj]

@arch - no, I do not think that someone who does answer my a or b is scummy. But, in THIS case my structure had a specific point. I was showing gateway that it was not possible to be both at the same time. If you see later, he DID finally understand my questions and answer it. he was either missing it, skipping it, or misunderstanding it before that. He said he thought my question was the same as the dice question, which was not case.

[sekinj]

If gateway's claim was fake, don't you think he would have been a little more anxious to spill it? expecially given his demonstrable lack of mafiascum experience?


gateway - you are saying that you get two names and one of them definitely IS scum... or you are given two names and it is possible that they are both innocent?

[sekinj]

See? gateway does not even understand the concept of a fakeclaim. If he actually received one in his role PM, i don't think he could play this ignorant.

[sekinj]

Still learning popular terms, but whatever the word is you have for that role, that is what I am. Not a cop, like a semi one I suppose.

Did your role PM not contain the 'term' or name of your role? it only contained a description?

[sekinj]

EBWOP: Verbosity, witholding info from the town is anti-town.

Disagree. For example: what if someone is cop? it is best to keep that info quiet as long as possible, in the best interests of the town.

Also, have you done a meta on all the other players, then? it seems like you would have had too in order to care so much about verb's alt.

[sekinj]

Still learning popular terms, but whatever the word is you have for that role, that is what I am. Not a cop, like a semi one I suppose.

Did your role PM not contain the 'term' or name of your role? it only contained a description?

I think this is a key point (if I say so myself). Has anyone ever received a role PM for any mafiascum game that DID NOT have the name of the role? Specifically, MY role PM for THIS game had my role name in bold. I can't imagine that gateway's did not, yet he says he doesn't know the 'term' for the role....

[sekinj]

I would suggest that everyone take a look at the replacement thread, post #140....

thoughts?

[sekinj]

No role in the game could be

too

out of the ordinary, since this is a mini normal and not a mini theme...

[sekinj]

I would suggest that everyone take a look at the replacement thread, post #140....

thoughts?

EMPHASIS SINCE EVERYONE IS MISSING THIS!!!

[sekinj]

read the comment bat makes in the replacement... this is not significant in your mind?

I'm pointing out the possiblity of not very standard roles... or at least one non-standard role. since this isn't a theme it can't be too crazy though...

[sekinj]

oh... you are right, it didnt' say it in the title, so I missed it.

well, in that case, i completely believe gateway!!! who knows was other very powerful role the bad guys have!

[sekinj]

I find it believeable because I don't think gateway could come up with it on his own.

I don't think it is as powerful as others think simply because there is so much WIFOM in it. TO be a theme game there has to be some crazy stuff going on... I think trying to outguess the mod is a bad idea.

THe only reason I thought gateway (or getaway as panzer says) was scummy was because of his bad judgement, poorly placed and reasoned votes and his ignorance. I wasn't goign to let that slide. but now that he has claimed I can see that it is for real. he had no concept of what a fake claim was and he didn't even know how to claim his role correctly. If he was trying to pull one over on us, he would have to be doing a better job than this...

[sekinj]

at this point I would rather lynch myself than gateway. I think his info could help the town.

[sekinj]

Why are you basing you're reasoning on how dumb someone is? You're assuming that Gateway is a complete tard.

I woudl prefer to think of it as inexperienced or ignorant... but maybe I'm jsut a nice person

[sekinj]

@Gateway

-

Please answer me straightly. I believe your claim, but it is important that we all know the extent of your experience. Please answer in your own words, disregarding all prior discussion on this subject.

- What mafia experience do you have?

Please include all experience on mafiascum.net, as well as any other online site, or real life experience.

thank you.

[sekinj]

i think gateway just skims and does see everything.

[sekinj]

Why wouldn't scum kill him tonight? unless we have a doctor, I'm not even thinking he will last through the night. Which brings up the question of if he shoudl pass along the names or take a chance and kill one...

but maybe I'm just gullible...

[sekinj]

Why wouldn't scum kill him tonight?

The lack of NK on a player who has claimed a powerful/controversial role would lead to a total WIFOM mess. I for one would be second guessing him the whole time, and it would probably screw with my read on others as well.

Which is exactly what I said about why i dont' think the role is so powerful. introduce a little wifom, and you cut back a role's power dramatically.

[sekinj]

exactly.

[sekinj]

exactly.

Couldn't that be said of any unfeasible role?

Yes. Depending on the role, how it plays out, and what confirmation the mod gives. If we just have to take gate's word for the two players, then that is in doubt. If the mod annouces the two players to the whole town, that's completely different.

As an example just think of a mod confirmed mason and a non-comfirmed mason. One introduces wifom, therefore is much less powerful than the other.

I, for one, expect weird roles in a theme game...

[sekinj]

Again remember. Hitman, and Az called the mod a dick

we get it. you can settle now.

[sekinj]

My experience is some, I've played smaller games on another forum where I MUD and most make it to seven or eight pages.

What variety of roles were present on games there? Was there much experimentation with strange roles?

can you link to that site?

[sekinj]

It's only questionable in this situation. I'm not sure how much modding experiance you have but when designing/using roles you should also was think "What if a REALLY good player gets this role". Dude, commonly Un-NKable roles have been deemed broken(even in theme games) because if a good enough player gets the role, then him being so difficult to lynch and immune to NK makes it too broken. So think if a simple un-NKable role in which you get no info is broken, imagine a role in which you get the name of a scum every night.

Hypothetically, had Gateway not had to claim and got to use his role, he could have killed one and then claimed Day 2 with news that he had confirmed the alignment of a player. Basically, if he claimed in a better position we would of followed him and if he really had this role, he'd have pretty much all the scum caught..

unless there are other roles which handicap his.

[sekinj]

lol... yeah, i do get angered easily.

I find panzer's push of gateway bad, but I'm not sure if he is scummy, or just zealous misguided town. I don't think he would push so hard if he really KNEW gateway was town aligned.

I think some of the more background people are the scum... will do some reviewing on that. And yes, I have a bad habit of focusing on the current discussion rather than bringing up new points of my own. (panzer - you should be able to meta me on that).

but again, I'd rather lynch me than gateway because I think gateway can help the town.

[sekinj]

I think SSK has done some scummy looking things, but that is usually his MO

[sekinj]

Omg, gateway, you certainly don't know how to help yourself.

Why are you suspicious of me?

What do you think of my theory that panzer is going after you too hard to KNOW you are town? He is leaving himself nothing to fall back on tomorrow. (Much like myself)

[sekinj]

If I am such a good lynch why are so few voting me?

[sekinj]

Just shut up at this point gateway

[sekinj]

Gateway -i doubt panzer is scum. You don't know for sure either. It's the people in the background who are more dangerous. Ask yourself, if you flip hitman as you claim, then what would panzer fall back on tomorrow? That would be stupid scum play.

[sekinj]

vote on someone if you are so sure

[sekinj]

Man, there's some good siggy quote lately

[sekinj]

vote: Archon

for trashing the thread.

[sekinj]

I also find it very hard to believe these people who think I am suspicious, but can't actually make much of a case against me, and won't actually vote me.

[sekinj]

@ssk - maybe he has come to his senses.

[sekinj]

I'm only at L-2, so I dont' knwo what the big deal is. Gateway was L-1 and nevery actually got lynched, so I'm starting to wonder if we are going to lynch ANYONE today...

unvote, vote: no lynch

[sekinj]

dang it. IT MEANS I BELEIVE GATEWAY AND WOUDL RATHER LYNCH MYSELF IN ORDER TO GIVE HIM A SHOT TONIGHT!!

[sekinj]

exactly. I already have my farewell post prepared

[sekinj]

[quote="Panzerjager"]That is seriously stupid. No reason to lynch yourself. [quote]

the only players people are willing to lynch today are a power townie and me, a vanilla townie. Which would you think was a better lynch (from the towns perspective?)

[sekinj]

EBWOP

That is seriously stupid. No reason to lynch yourself.

the only players people are willing to lynch today are a power townie and me, a vanilla townie. Which would you think was a better lynch (from the towns perspective?)

[sekinj]

then vote me. i've already explained my reasoning. why don't you call my bluff?

[sekinj]

how is it anti-town to try to give a TOWN power role a shot?

[sekinj]

A vanilla should be trying to hunt scum, not get herself lynched...

already tried that. didn't work. now going to plan B in order to save gateway for one night.

[sekinj]

how is it anti-town to try to give a TOWN power role a shot?

When the power role isn't in the game because it's make believe

I obviously believe otherwise.

[sekinj]

@panzer - well, I beleive you are an over-zealous townie that is goign to get a town power role killed D1. why don't you wise up your play and look around at the people in the background?

[sekinj]

if you don't believe me, you shoudl vote me gateway

[sekinj]

how is it anti-town to try to give a TOWN power role a shot?

Well, when you're the only one in the entire game that is convinced that Gateway is not a liar, there has to be something up. Just to clarify, 1-10, how much to you believe Gateway's CLAIM? Just his claim. 10 being "spotless, without a doubt", 1 being "this is totally BS."

10, i'm afraid

[sekinj]

already answered

[sekinj]

Gateway, you should be voting for sekinj, unless you want to die.

this

sekinj, you should be voting for yourself, unless you want Gateway to die.

You are right, maybe I am just bluffing. I'm probably just scum who is trying to get myself confirmed as town by standing up for someone i KNOW is going to flip town... that way I can just about get myself confirmed as town and will skate through the rest of the game and WIN!! hmmm....

[sekinj]

Which is exactly what I said about why i dont' think the role is so powerful. introduce a little wifom, and you cut back a role's power dramatically.

Had gateway not had to claim today, do you still think the role would not be all that powerful?

If he came up with two names out of the blue tomorrow (without having claimed today) how much would have you trusted those two names? Without claiming, all he can do is gun for the one he thinks is scum and hope everyone else is convinced. with claiming, he just has to hope people believe him... either way, it's wifom city.

[sekinj]

Bloody hell, I'm only onto page 11 now.
I'm going to take a quick break. If I don't post more tonight, I will do at some point tomorrow.

it will be 20 pages by then...

[sekinj]

L-2

[sekinj]

Since you've expressed relative certainty of Gateway's honesty, is there any particular reason for which you didn't self-vote?

because this is an elborate ploy to get gateway lynched....

[sekinj]

you stand correct again

[sekinj]

because this is an elborate ploy to get gateway lynched....

Seriously, though.

Because if I vote myself now, no one else will do the dirty work of hammering me.

[sekinj]

nope.

[sekinj]

Vote: sekinj

OKAY!! Finally we are getting somewhere. As you will see in a few minutes I am a plain jane vanilla town. BUT, as you know, when NO ONE would listen to me regarding Gateway, I decided to get myself lynched in order to give Gateway one shot at using his ability. As you can see, I firmly believe it will help the town. I've been trying to get myself lynched since about page 11.

Gateway:

Please be careful who you kill tonight. Remember that you very well may not make it to morning. Also remember that the mod may not allow you to share the second name with us. DO NOT LET YOUR ANGER AT PANZER'S ATTACKS BLIND YOU!! Try to think of if from his perspective and remember that he may be a zealous townie. Please consider these things and make a smart decision.

Also, your play has been terrible. I'm not saying this to be mean, but as encouragement to improve. You should probably play several newbie games in order to get the hang of how things work on this site.

TOWN:

Tomorrow, please look at all the background players (SSK) and pay attention to the players who jumped on my wagon. You can bet that some were scum and KNEW I was a townie. Look for signs. I find especially interesting those people who voted for me AFTER my self-lynch motivations were outted by Panzer (Az).

...and if Gateway is any type of scum I will eat my hat.

Anyway, it was good playing with you! I will be continuing to follow the game to see how you guys do. Hope to see most of you in future game!

Good night and good luck!

*dies*

[sekinj]

and just in case

unvote, vote: sekinj

[sekinj]

I hate lurkers

[sekinj]

to the town: You are welcome

[sekinj]

Indeed an interesting game mechanic, and well done jazzmyn.
Also gateway for choosing to go with the town both nights.

and me? for getting Gateway past d1....

I know self-voting sticks in the craw of a lot of good townies, but I certainly feel justified in this game!

[sekinj]

I think gateway's play has improved if you look at the game he linked.