Newbie 762 - OhGodMyVillage - Game Over

[Mastin]

Also, having too much conversation tends to convolute conversation, hence why I am not asking for everyone to give us walls of text to search through as you appear to want. The simplest of posts can, just as well, prove to be scummy. Otherwise, I don't know how else to explain this to you.

You can explain *why* and *what* makes them scummy.

Vote Count: 5 to lynch

Mastin: 2 (Scien, Santos)
sirdanilot: 1 (Lleu)
PhilyEc: 1 (Barim)
Santos: 1 (sirdanilot)
Scien: 1 (PhilyEc)

Not Voting: 2 (Mastin, Crysnia)

...Isn't this a nine-player game? I'm seeing only eight, here. Where's Ub? Why am I not voting Ub? I don't recall unvoting at any specific time. I know, this vote count is a page old, but it could confuse people later on in the game in a re-read.

IMO, scum's number one mistake is to try and lead the town.

Disagreed strongly on this one. No good player tries to lead the town completely. They give their cases against a player, vote on it, and ask others to review that evidence closely. And when it *is* done, it is done far more often by the town.

Scien jumped to defenses the second I posted negativity towards Mastins which just screams scum trying to look as town as possible and reflect suspicion.

Isn't this exactly whats happened? I never address Scien until he did the favour first and then after he got HEAVILY involved. I even got double teamed at some point on page 4 for a good few posts~

Or perhaps Scien just thought your attack on me was unjust with bad logic.

3) Both are town and merely semantic fanboys. (Unlikely due to context of disagreement being so dwelled upon).

I agree that it is pointless to dwell over obvious conflict of opinions. And I believe the conversation was just that--I don't think you're scum; I think our opinions just differ.

Hey guys! This is my first game, and I'm excited. I'll review the thread and get back to y'all with my thoughts soon.

Oh, boy. *apologizes* You chose a bad game to replace into--I'm known for writing novels. :/

LOL. I feel like I was tricked somehow. I came in thinking hey, only 5 pages, sweet!

*Apologizes again* My bad.

4. Ubaten - Seemed kinda desperate to please starting out, which was weird. The vote was also kinda weird. The lack of scumhunting is worrisome.

Add to that, lurking, and the fact that the mod forgot that Ub even existed due to some serious lack of posting.

I fail to see the big difference between Mastin's scumhunting, and my nit-picking.

A point I also share.

1. The majority of Mastin's posts were defensive. The majority of yours are offensive.

In my honest opinion, I find that offensive posts are more pro-town than defensive posts.

Wow, huge playstyle clash in this game.

Agreed. But clashes in playstyles shouldn't be enough reason to vote.

And if you are involved in every topic, you can direct its flow.

I dunno. Am I really the only one seeing this? Either you're an extremely aggressive townie or you're what I suspect you are.

1: Pro-town players have just as much motivation to direct topics as pro-scum. At worst, it's a null tell.
2: I see nothing of concern in Scien's posts.
3: Scien plays like this all the time. I confirm this.

Vote Count: 5 to lynch

PhilyEc: 2 (MiteyMouse, Scien)
Scien: 2 (PhilyEc, Papa Zito)
Mastin: 1 (Santos)
sirdanilot: 1 (Lleu)
Santos: 1 (sirdanilot)

Not Voting: 1 (Mastin)

Lightning doesn't strike twice.

Mod: Please note that F-11 setups have 9 players on day one, not eight, and one of ours is just inactive.

Hi everyone! I look forward to playing with you all! I'm going to do a quick read and I'll be back with my thoughts soon!

I extend my apologies to you. :/

Where is Lleu?

Where were you? Lurking again?

(Suspects, most to least:
Ub
Santos
Papa
--I can give reasoning as to each of these)

[Papa Zito]

3. How do you know who is town? 'The majority'? I just don't buy this. It sounds like some kind of cover up. Some kind of reference point in case a more useful bandwagon arises, so you can safely change your vote because 'town said I am wrong'.

First, I like your number system in replies.

Second, the majority of the town has to be good by definition, or the game would be over.

Third... I don't know what to make of the reference point. Explain please?

4.

NO.

The ONLY reason to random vote is if there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to vote anyone WHATSOEVER. This was not the case since I thought mastin had dropped a scum tell.
5. I saw a better reason to vote, so I voted. And I do not regret it for one second because it generated discussion. Yes you can have discussion that leads to a vote, but you can also have votes that lead to discussion ('pressure votes', something I'm personally not really a fan of but alas) and you can also vote without previous discussion simply because you see a scum tell, which is also something that generates discussion.

Wow. Big red no. How do you really feel? heh

Understood on the purpose of a random vote. I'm still not seeing how an immediate vote on somebody for their very first post is good behavior. You're the only one who's done it, and I feel that's an important distinction.

[Papa Zito]

Ack, sniped. Allo Mastin.

Hey guys! This is my first game, and I'm excited. I'll review the thread and get back to y'all with my thoughts soon.

Oh, boy. *apologizes* You chose a bad game to replace into--I'm known for writing novels. :/

LOL. I feel like I was tricked somehow. I came in thinking hey, only 5 pages, sweet!

*Apologizes again* My bad.

XD. Wasn't that bad really.

(Suspects, most to least:
Papa
--I can give reasoning as to each of these)

Yes plz.

[MiteyMouse]

Hi all...going to try and slog through this thread again. Be back shortly!

[MiteyMouse]

I'm going to do this page by page as, I can take notes as I'm reading.

The first thing...I don't see a problem with die rolls for random votes and self votes do start discussion. Maybe not a play I'd do in either case but, I don't see a problem with either...just saying.

Page 2:
Oh all the quotes and walls...my head hurts...hehehe!

One thing that I found interesting in this giant wall of a misquoted page (meant in the most loving way possible) is that Ub was asking Mastin's oponion on his oponion of Mastin...if that makes sense. Why the need to have the person you are making a case against tell you how he feels about it. It just seems a bit off to me.

Page 3:
This was a fairly mean page...The one comment I will make is that Sirdanilot comes out looking very Town on this page.

Page 4:
Hehehe...oral exams! Phil that made me laugh!

Now, I can understand Phil's frustration with the WOW in this game but, to admit to skimming is a huge Scum tell in my eyes. Scum don't need to read and analyze the same as Town...skimming is a big no no! Also, on the Phil front, a big ping went off with me for questioning Mastin's disecting of posts and logic, again I sympathise with having to read tons of big posts but, this is not a bad thing to be doing. Town want people to do this and get as much info from them as possible. Also, Phil, why are you so defencive...on everything?

Page 5:
Welcokme Papa Zito...way to start off your game play here with a bang!

I think that Scien looks pretty Town thus far in my read.

Page 6:
Something jumps out at me...Papa Zito...why do you need a majority for an unvote. This game is about thinking and voting. If we had to have a majority everytime we voted or unvoted, this game would last for years!

Page 7:
Almost there!


Ok...initial thoughts: Santos and Phil don't look good in here. Phil is frustrated and defensive and Santos has done not too much in the way of looking for Scum.

I'm not going to post who I believe to be Town at this point as, to me, it serves no purpose other than to help the Scum...if I had to read it than so do you Scummies...hehehe!

Now everyone that has started posting has really had to come in swinging besides the core group of you that have been posting regularly since the start. Please go easy on me as, my head hurts after that!

Nice to be playing with all of you and we're going to have fun here!

[Santos]

I'm observing some trends so far. I have also decided who I think is most pro town as well. I will have a summary soon because there are some very obvious town, scum arguments going on as well as buddying (which, IMO, is the most dangerous thing to do if scum were going to try it IE Mastin/Scien).

Does anyone agree?

[sirdanilot]

3. How do you know who is town? 'The majority'? I just don't buy this. It sounds like some kind of cover up. Some kind of reference point in case a more useful bandwagon arises, so you can safely change your vote because 'town said I am wrong'.

(1)First, I like your number system in replies.

(2)Second, the majority of the town has to be good by definition, or the game would be over.

(3)Third... I don't know what to make of the reference point. Explain please?

1. k. That's a keeper then. I usually tear posts apart to small little page filling quotes, but this number system is more concise,quicker, and less prone to quote tag failure.

2. Well duh. But out of that majority, how do you know who is town?

3. I didn't explain the reference point very well. Let's try again though. So the issue at hand is here post #128. You are willing to unvote Scien at this point. What a towny would/should do is to just unvote. But now you are saying 'I'll unvote if the majority of the town wants me to'.

This means that you are no longer voting where your suspicions lie (since you no longer suspect scien enough to be voting him, apparently). And you can always fall back on your Scien vote whenever you want. This is what I call a 'reference point'. Other people would call it 'backtracking' or something like that, but I am really not familiar enough with that term and I have also been accused of 'backtracking' over some stupid semantics argument in another game so I don't use the term.

4.

NO.

The ONLY reason to random vote is if there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to vote anyone WHATSOEVER. This was not the case since I thought mastin had dropped a scum tell.
5. I saw a better reason to vote, so I voted. And I do not regret it for one second because it generated discussion. Yes you can have discussion that leads to a vote, but you can also have votes that lead to discussion ('pressure votes', something I'm personally not really a fan of but alas) and you can also vote without previous discussion simply because you see a scum tell, which is also something that generates discussion.

Wow. Big red no. How do you really feel? heh

Understood on the purpose of a random vote. I'm still not seeing how an immediate vote on somebody for their very first post is good behavior. You're the only one who's done it, and I feel that's an important distinction.

The fact that I am the only one who has done it in this game doesn't mean it's scummy. I just explained why I did it, and I haven't seen you saying that my reasoning for why i did it is scummy or anything so you should drop the point or attack my reasoning.

I'm observing some trends so far.(1) I have also decided who I think is most pro town as well. (2)I will have a summary soon because there are some very obvious town, scum arguments going on (3)as well as buddying (4)(which, IMO, is the most dangerous thing to do if scum were going to try it IE Mastin/Scien).

(5)Does anyone agree?

1. Are you willing to give away this information or do you not want to?
2. Exciting. Now let's hope this is not an empty promise.
3. Oh joy.
4. So you think mastin is buddying to scien and/or vice versa ?
5. With what? I am eagerly awaiting your summary though.

[Papa Zito]

Welcokme Papa Zito...way to start off your game play here with a bang!

Lawl. I'm here to play, yo.

Something jumps out at me...Papa Zito...why do you need a majority for an unvote. This game is about thinking and voting. If we had to have a majority everytime we voted or unvoted, this game would last for years!

Arrite, this seems to be a bone of contention with you and sirdanilot, so lemme try to explain better, since I guess I'm failing.

After I replaced in, I went through the thread, made some notes, ranked the peeps, and made a vote. To sirdanilot's point - no, I'm not willing to unvote Scien at this point, because I haven't been swayed from it yet.

BUT, one thing I was pointing out is that since this is my first game, my analysis may be completely off. Sure, I've read through some of the other games on here, and yeah, I've browsed the wiki a bit, but each game is different (hence the appeal, I'd assume) so that's no replacement for game experience. What I've been trying to say is that I don't want to make a mistake and vote for an innocent guy, so if my analysis is wrong, then I'm willing to unvote. I'm not seeing what's unreasonable here.

Now to the second piece of this, the "majority" bit. Here's my thinking. The bad guys are going to, obviously, want the town to hang a good guy. Conversely, they're going to want to sway the town from hanging a bad guy. If I have a couple people say, "Hey, Zito, you're writing a ton of BS, cut it out" I have to stop and wonder if those two are mafia trying to sway me from making the correct choice. (Note: Most of this conversation has been with the two people at the bottom of my list, lawl) However, if I have five or six people tell me I'm a moron and STFU, then I'll certainly listen to that because

at most

two of those five or six people are bad guys, so I know it's a townie opinion.

Hopefully that helps.

[Papa Zito]

The fact that I am the only one who has done it in this game doesn't mean it's scummy. I just explained why I did it, and I haven't seen you saying that my reasoning for why i did it is scummy or anything so you should drop the point or attack my reasoning.

Aggressive player is aggressive.

Let's recap the series of events.

1. Mastin self-votes. Your response is a vote against Mastin. You explained that you put the vote because you think a random self-vote is scummy, even though you admit that it's not a huge scum-tell. If it's not a huge scum-tell, why vote? If most of the players haven't even posted yet, why vote? I see Scien's response as appropriate - he questioned it and got a dialog going. You didn't bother, you just lectured and voted.

2. Santos says "This discussion is killing me with all the coding errors and no names associated with quotes. Ugh. " AND YOU VOTE HIM FOR THIS. Again, it was a lecture and a vote. I find this one especially egregious since it was placed on an off comment. Please explain how a complaint about coding errors and bad quoting is scummy, and why PhilyEc and Barim haven't warranted the same treatment. kthx

[sirdanilot]

The fact that I am the only one who has done it in this game doesn't mean it's scummy. I just explained why I did it, and I haven't seen you saying that my reasoning for why i did it is scummy or anything so you should drop the point or attack my reasoning.

Aggressive player is aggressive.

Let's recap the series of events.

1. Mastin self-votes. Your response is a vote against Mastin. You explained that you put the vote because you think a random self-vote is scummy, even though you admit that it's not a huge scum-tell. If it's not a huge scum-tell, why vote? If most of the players haven't even posted yet, why vote? I see Scien's response as appropriate - he questioned it and got a dialog going. You didn't bother, you just lectured and voted.

2. Santos says "This discussion is killing me with all the coding errors and no names associated with quotes. Ugh. " AND YOU VOTE HIM FOR THIS. Again, it was a lecture and a vote. I find this one especially egregious since it was placed on an off comment. Please explain how a complaint about coding errors and bad quoting is scummy, and why PhilyEc and Barim haven't warranted the same treatment. kthx

1. You don't really get it do you. First, I had only a random vote. As I said before, I only want to have a random vote when I haven't yet seen ANYTHING more scummy. I then saw something scummy, namely Mastin's self vote, so I voted. It was indeed a small scumtell, but it was the only scum tell in my opinion so I voted.

2. Yes I voted him for that. I am not going to reiterate why; quote my reasoning that goes with the vote and address that if you so wish.

Also I am not that aggressive. Try playing with user Ythill some time...

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count:

5 to lynch

PhilyEc: 2 (MiteyMouse, Scien)
Scien: 2 (PhilyEc, Papa Zito)
Mastin: 1 (Santos)
sirdanilot: 1 (Lleu)
Santos: 1 (sirdanilot)

Not Voting: 2 (Mastin, Ubaten)

Deadline: April 19th, 10:00 PM Eastern

Lleu has 48 hours to return or he will be replaced.

Prodding Ubaten.

Sorry about the gross oversight in the last vote count, all players are now represented.

[Santos]

Unvote: Mastin

[Santos]

Hey I have a question for everyone: What do you think the setup is?

Oh, and

Vote: Llue

, contribute please.

[MiteyMouse]

Hey I have a question for everyone: What do you think the setup is?

Oh, and

Vote: Llue

, contribute please.

I'm not sure yet but, have to wonder why it matters at this point in the game. Unless you are looking for someone to accidentally out themselves as the Doctor or Cop. That is some role fishing at it's finest my friend!

Unvote Vote Santos

[Santos]

LOL. So speculating the scenarios is considered role fishing?

MightyMouse 1 - Santos 0.

[sirdanilot]

Thank you for giving me another reason to keep my vote on you, Santos!

I would have expected a cop-out 'it was a gambit' defense but thankfully you are sparing us from this nonsense.

More santos votes tralala happy easter

[Santos]

I am the cop you fuktards.

[Santos]

Vote: Santos

Good luck now town.

[Santos]

Unvote

On second thought, I want to see people's reactions.

[Scien]

Uh, I have planned, and do still plan to go back and gather the questions that I still have out to people but I need to comment now.

Santos WTH? Why did you claim with two votes on you as opposed to trying to address peoples concerns? Why did you self vote with two votes on you? You are going to panic under that little pressure?

Why did you ask about role setup if you already have some knowledge of it? No sane person would give you an answer that would tell you what there role was if that was what you were after. Every protown role will consider it suspicious that you asked a question that seemed to be looking for role information. You don't think that would be suspicious?

Why did you feel the need to do all of the above? Please answer each question in turn. And don't panic.

[Santos]

I was not panicking, but rather frustrated at how ignorant people can be. My question was simple and that was to speculate about the scenarios since we have done so much else today. I thought it would be interesting to see what people thought of the setup.

HUGE FoS: MiteyMouse

because I was not role fishing as you were implying, but rather seeking insight regarding the game. You twisted my words and are quite simply scum in my eyes now.

[quote="Scien"]Why did you ask about role setup if you already have some knowledge of it?[/q]
Uh, why do you think this would be a good idea as opposed to a bad idea?

I was not seeking role claims by asking what I did

.

Right now, I perfectly well see a MiteyMouse/Sirdanilot team, but of course that is not just for me to decide.

[Mastin]

Mod: I should be voting Ubaten, and I believe Ubaten is still voting me--I haven't recalled seeing either unvote.

Yes plz.

Short version short,
-Ub is lurking, and didn't answer my questions to my satisfaction.
-Santos's reactions have been very scummy, and he has shown an overall lack of desire to do any real scum hunting.
-Papa's inconsistent attitude between Scien and I, when we have posted similarly, and his reactions towards Sirdan seem fairly anti-town. It's not a large suspicion.

More details can be provided if requested, but people seem to have a dislike for *that* many long posts from me, so I'm trying to keep it shorter.

I have also decided who I think is most pro town as well. I will have a summary soon because there are some very obvious town, scum arguments going on as well as buddying (which, IMO, is the most dangerous thing to do if scum were going to try it IE Mastin/Scien).

Please share.
And clarify--are you saying you find it extremely doubtful that Scien and I are both scum, due to early buddying? That's what I interpreted from this.

Hopefully that helps.

It does--and I understand. If you think the scum are trying to deter you, keep on going. If you think the town as a whole is trying to deter you, chances are, it is best to stop. So long as you don't let this become following the majority blindly, it is a good trend, for the most part.

Hey I have a question for everyone: What do you think the setup is?

Largest rolefish ever...

I am the cop you fuktards.

And...largest surprise, ever. Especially with only two votes on you...

I'm not sure whether I believe the claim, but let's just say I have bad experience when seeing cops claim, or worse, not claiming, and getting lynched day one, so at the very least, we should wait a day before we even consider lynching him--his results or lack thereof can help us determine if he is lying or not.

If Santos isn't the real cop, I would advise against the real cop counter-claiming today. Yes, we get one scum for the power role from a claim, but if you wait a day and maybe get an investigation result, you will put the town at a significant advantage.

Other thoughts on the matter?

[Mastin]

HUGE FoS: MiteyMouse because I was not role fishing as you were implying, but rather seeking insight regarding the game. You twisted my words and are quite simply scum in my eyes now.

No, I'm fairly certain anyone would read your post as rolefishing.

The town doesn't know what setup it is.

The scum know one of two setups it is.

The town power roles, if existing, know one of two setups they are in.

To answer with what setup people think it is is to imply what role they are. I also saw it as a rolefish.

[Mastin]

To go into more detail on the claim:

Santos's attitude is consistent with both cops, and scum.

-Cops tend to stay away from scum hunting day one, barely contributing to avoid being the night kill. It's scummy as possible, yes, but they know they're not going to be lynched.
Santos fits this perfectly, from what I have seen.
-Scum tend to put less effort if any into scum hunting, as if they were to truly try, they might end up lynching their partner or looking more scummy than not scum hunting would be, say, if they lynched a power role.
Santos doesn't fit as well into this category.

In summary,
-Santos's actions as cop make sense,
-Santos's actions as scum make nearly as much sense,
-Santos's overall feel and attitude towards the game was rather anti-town,
-I am divided between believing and disbelieving the claim,
-Yet regardless of what I think, it would be a bad idea to lynch the cop claim day one.

[Santos]

If you're seriously thinking about lynching me, then you might as well ask your moderator to replace me so you guys don't eff yourselves.

I find it interesting now that MiteyMouse and Sirdanilot have disappeared.

Okay, maybe it *looks* like I am role fishing, but considering what I have seen today and how people have been playing, I've been trying to deduce the possibilities of who to investigate tonight. (god willing now, I am going to die)

Two things:
1) I claimed cop before a bandwagon was set in place for something stupid that I would never do as scum *rolefishing*
2) If I was scum claiming cop, I would have to be the gutsiest scum ever.