Newbie 762 - OhGodMyVillage - Game Over

[Mastin]

My thoughts:

I was night-killed for a reason.
1: The lynch of Phil was a HUGE mistake. We should've lynched one of the top suspects. Like Henrz, to avoid today's mislynch.
2: I was right in protecting Scien, though I needed it more. :/
3: WHY THE HECK DID YOU LYNCH THE SELF-VOTING COP?!? Seriously, I've NEVER seen scum self-vote. I've always seen pro-town players do it.
Panzer self-hammered.
Hohum self-hammered,
you get the idea.

4: I knew Scien was pro-town due to the identical playstyle of 735.
5: I PM'd the mod my suspects after I was night-killed.
6: Of my suspects, it was clear at least one was going to be scum. Scien was pro-town, Santos's claim and attitude was pro-town (kinda), Sirdan was obviously pro-town, I knew I was pro-town, I thought Phil was pro-town (why the lynch was a mistake), leaving only four left. Henrz was my top, of course, due to Ub's attitude. :/

I thought Papa was scum after Sirdan was killed.

Seriously, WHO WAS PAPA'S PRIMARY DEBATER? :/

Logic:

Why I'm night-killed. <_<

[Mastin]

Sup town?

What's up?

Soil. Above the soil, a gravestone. Above the gravestone, the sky.

As in, yea...

(I was definitely wishing Mitey would replace out so that I could get back in AS SCUM because I KNEW we were going to lose this game. I had the offer available)

[Mastin]

Of course, if you want me to replace into [763] if a replacement is ever needed, I'd be happy to do so, but in [the] game, all players are active, so this is doubtful.
So, meh, as I'm dead, I'll just take assumptions as to who the mafia are that killed me.
Henrz and Papa_Zito are the mafia in 762.

My opinion on Papa was solidified after the Sirdan night-kill. Henrz should've been lynched days earlier to avoid a mislynch early on, as I thought that my suspicions (amongst others) got me night-killed. Mitey's lurking I found terrible, and Mitey's poor cases were what sealed the deal and changed my opinion, there.
As I had thought of who the mafia were, and knew that it was doubtful that we'd win due to two terrible mislynches, I wanted to replace back in due to the fact that the scum had a nearly guaranteed victory after those two mislynches.

[Papa Zito]

Diary of n00bscum

by Papa Zito

Act 1, Scene 1

First Mafia game! I'm eager to play, so I opt to replace in. I'm totally expecting a vanilla townie role.

Instead, I'm scum. Ouch. No wait, I'm a scum power role.

We're screwed.

I read through the game. Seems my previous incarnation, Crysnia, didn't post anything but a confirm, which is good news. Bad news is my partner Barim is nowhere to be seen. So I'm a total n00b, power-role scum with no direction.

Oh, we're screwed.

But if I'm going down, I'm going down fighting dammit. My read-through of the thread told me that Mastin and Scien were the two most pro-town players in the game, so taking them out first is priority #1. This turns out to be a mistake though... I overreach, my case is bad, and I have a hard time defending myself. I make sure to play the newbie card pretty hard here... I'll never get a chance to do it again, may as well milk it for what it's worth.

Saved by the bell though... With the deadline approaching, I decide to lick my wounds in silence. Fortunately the town quasi-panics and I'm able to lurk my way through the rest of the day.

Act 1, Scene 2

My new partner MiteyMouse and I discuss who we want to vote off the island. I still want Mastin and Scien gone. Mastin is a bit more pro-town of the two (I made sure to seed some of my comments with this during Day 1) so we agree that he's our guy. We'll have to figure out Scien later.

Another thing we plan is for us to have a fight the next day as a distancing manuever. We agree not to force anything though and let it come in the flow of the game, if it happens at all.

Mastin dies. Mastin is the doc? EXTREME BONUS!

Act 2, Scene 1

I'm suitably saddened that I "missed" the end of Day 1 and that two of our friends are dead. Especially since one is the Doc. Poor us.

First job is to make sure that Santos pays for his claim, so I start to lay the groundwork for this. Santos makes this particular task incredibly easy with his play throughout Day 2. I also decide it's time to make nice with Scien while he's still alive since it's unlikely I'll be able to get him lynched.

Then I get blindsided by sirdanilot. I guess it was wishful thinking that he'd just go away and leave me alone.

Then xRECKONERx votes me, and despite what Scien said, I start to panic a bit.

In the thread, though, I keep my cool. I'm just an innocent townie after all, I have nothing to hide, so of course I'll answer all your questions. Heh. xRECKONERx abruptly drops his vote, then sirdanilot gives up, and I breathe a huge sigh of relief that I'm surprised no one else heard.

The game stalls at this point. I take stock of the situation and realize that there's not enough suspicion being thrown around. Also, Mitey has completely disappeared... where did she go? So on the basis of our earlier decision to have a fight, and gain town cred points, I post a lurker case on Mitey.

Scien starts hammering on Santos. Eh, this is bad, he's our best asset in the game, and I don't want him to die today. xRECKONERx posts his Henrz case, which gives me a great chance to redirect. I give the case a little time to simmer before addressing it though so as not to appear too eager. Unfortunately Scien wasn't distracted at all and Santos kept spiralling downward, eventually forcing my hand.

Bye bye, cop.

Act 2, Scene 2

Decision time, and this one is huge like XBox. Mitey and I bounce Scien and sirdanilot back and forth. On the one hand, Scien is still the most pro-town player, and I don't want him mucking things up with all his damned insights and scumhunting. Then again, sirdanilot seems to have tunneled on me and I have zero desire to face him again Day 3. Killing sirdanilot is risky though, since it will seem like just what it is - a defensive mechanism to keep me safe. Mitey isn't really on the radar of either one of them so she's good either way. We elect to go with sirdanilot, and I start readying my "Henrz is framing me" defense.

Next we talk strategy. First, Mitey tells me her absense isn't a play, but she's really been sick. I, of course, immediately feel like an ass, even if my pressure on her was fake. She volunteers herself to be bussed on Day 3 if things don't go well. I really, really don't want to do it, but I keep it in the back of my mind. I relay the highlights, especially the Henrz bits which I think will prove most useful the next day.

Then we wish each other well, I PM our decision, and off we go.

Day 3, Scene 1

I honestly feel a bit bewildered at the start of the day, but things actually start falling into place quickly. It seems most of the players are fairly set in their opinions at this point, and I'm able to play off of this and quietly divide the town into two factions. I rely heavily on the town cred I've earned, especially with Scien, while doing this. Looking back, I was probably a bit too aggressive.

Convincing Scien, I felt, was key. I figured that if Scien and I both agreed on Henrz, xRECKONERx would also fall into place. Mitey was also waiting in the wings for a chance to drop the hammer. Fortunately for me, Scien was convinced of my towniness enough that he was willing to shift his view onto Henrz' admittedly weakish case.

Day 3, Scene 2

FLAWLESS VICTORY

lol

This was an immense amount of fun guys.

[Papa Zito]

I thought Papa was scum after Sirdan was killed.

Seriously, WHO WAS PAPA'S PRIMARY DEBATER? :/

Yeah, it was a big risk. I had the following in my hip pocket in case this came up. Fortunately, it never did.

1. The debate between sirdanilot and me was over Day 2.
2. The scum kept me alive as a frame job
3. The scum are killing the most pro-town players. They spared Scien to let him and xRECKONERx have their fight. (I think I used this one somewhere)

I reeeeally didn't want to go into Day 3 and face sirdanilot's wrath again, plus I had town cred with Scien, so sirdanilot had to go.

[Mastin]

Phil's gone. I'm fairly certain that he didn't need to be lynched. I think he just disappeared from all games he was in...

I would have much preferred a lynch of Henrz.

I currently still think Hen, and probably one of the three here: Reckon, Mitey, or Papa are the mafia we're looking for.

Seriously, I would've lynched Henrz d2 and might've gone for Reckon d3. You didn't have to kill me. :/

[xRECKONERx]

So we would've lost anyway, Mastin. >.>

I'm just kicking myself over dropping my Henrz case and then randomly going "lol ok" and voting him again. I HAD MITEY IN MY FUCKING SIGHTS TOO.

[Papa Zito]

I HAD MITEY IN MY FUCKING SIGHTS TOO.

Yes. Yes you did.

[Scien]

I can't tell you how many times I sayed 'OMG' and 'God damn it!' (that last in a chuckling sort of way) while reading these post game comments.

DANG.

First off... PapaZ. Oh... My... GOD!!! I fell right for the trap. I do remember thinking somewhere in day2 that it was kinda strange that you went from hardcore 'Scien scum!' to 'Oh, well maybe not so much.' I just figured that in your shoes as 'towny' eventually I passed some kind of test that showed that I really wasn't trying to play some kind of 'too_townie' card. (Scum hunting started winning me over here. After all, why would scum go for someone that would be hard to make a case against, you must be towny trying to confirm me! Damn it.)

Seriously, holy crap though. I thought that I could do a good job at seeing through scum who tried to play the same tricks as you. Switching positions after plays didn't work, lynching people that were scary to you, backing off when you were unsure of what to do, among others. If you truly played all the tricks above that you say you did, then holy crap. That was easily the best scum performance that I have seen yet (in my limited experence lol). *facepalm at myself*

Dang I feel so dumb right now >.< I even had a twinge of self doubt when you asked for my opinion when you had majority on Henrz. 'Why didn't he vote if four of the town told him they would back him up? Hmm... could be that he didn't want to be the first in there, worried about how it would look... a scummy tell. Nah, he probably was just afraid of casting the first stone in general *VOTE*'. DAMN IT lol.

Ok, I feel I need to defend myself a bit, at least to myself. Besides minor tells, that apparently I am quick to explain away to myself, I think that Mitey and Papa never made a logical post that I thought was incorrect, or slightly misguided. I think that this is truly the key to my heart. If you stick to logic, or at least claim too, apparently I am quick to jump to your side of the board and try and reason using your assumptions on the game. Dang. That was really a bunch of words, but really that means, if you can reason with me and put some logic that I can agree with in your posts then I am already a bit on your side (sigh). Both Mitey and Papa did this to me, as I can't remember a single post of there's were I remember myself thinking, 'That makes no sense!'. Sorry town, for being so vocal, and being completely subject to these kinds of players.

Ok post replying time:

I was night-killed for a reason.

Oh come on. You were easilly the most protown at the time. It would only be natural for you to be night-killed. At that point, taking your voice out of the game, it would have been almost impossible to know if that was due to your targets during questioning, or due to your pro-town play.

The lynch of Phil was a HUGE mistake. We should've lynched one of the top suspects. Like Henrz, to avoid today's mislynch.

Both of those are coming from your shoes. In my shoes both those lynches were against the 'top suspects'. I never saw a strong case against Henrz all day long (which I should have trusted my gut on DANG IT!). And I believe as a day one lynch Phil was not a horrible choice. I still stick to the fact that he was mainly focused on amount of content provided instead of what was provided as a good enough target for a day one lynch.

WHY THE HECK DID YOU LYNCH THE SELF-VOTING COP?!? Seriously, I've NEVER seen scum self-vote. I've always seen pro-town players do it.

Self-voting doesn't get me off your case. I am after motives and logic. If I question either of those, and your answer is a self-vote, I would treat it the same as not answering me. Its not a get out of jail free card, its a I don't want to answer card. An 'I don't want to answer' card serves no one, and deserves pressure. Sorry Mastin, can't agree with you here.

Santos's claim and attitude was pro-town [...] I thought Phil was pro-town...

His attitude in day 2 was

hardly

pro-town. As for Phil. I disagree, that was not pro-town at all.

Why I'm night-killed.

Either because you where the most vocal protown, or that you had targetted a scummy. The assumption you kind of have to go with in that situation is that you were just the most protown. Then if that target ends up scummy add the Mastin lynch to that case.

Henrz should've been lynched days earlier

I disagree. Even though I should have listened to myself. I

never

saw a case against Henrz that I thought was pretty sound. It was all just, 'thats a bit strange', and 'well I don't see whats scummy about that right away'.

My read-through of the thread told me that Mastin and Scien were the two most pro-town players in the game, so taking them out first is priority #1.

Sigh. I even thought it was funny that you singled out me, and thought Mastin came out smelling like roses incarnate.

[ I overreach, my case is bad, and I have a hard time defending myself

Eh? I thought you pretty much got off scott free for that. Besides me desperately trying to save myself against one of the most vocial people that I had met up to that point.

Fortunately the town quasi-panics

Ya... I guess... But a non-lynch does not serve the town, and we were very close to deadline due to all the replaces. Silly new noob game deadline rule lol.

Especially since one is the Doc. Poor us.

Damn lucky scum lol.

I have nothing to hide, so of course I'll answer all your questions.

Meh. I hope I can be that cool underfire in the future.

Scien is still the most pro-town player, and I don't want him mucking things up with all his damned insights and scumhunting.

Which apparently both suck hard. I think I would be willing to pin this entire town loss on me... although that would not change how I would have played it.

I rely heavily on the town cred I've earned, especially with Scien.

God damn it.

Fortunately for me, Scien was convinced of my towniness enough that he was willing to shift his view onto Henrz' admittedly weakish case.

God DAMN IT! >.<

They spared Scien to let him and xRECKONERx have their fight. (I think I used this one somewhere)

You did. This was a point where I thought, 'Hmm. I don't really understand this, I pretty much left him alone until today.' I disregarded that so... apparently you had already turned me. Dang it.

[Papa Zito]

Lawl. It's only fitting that the walls of text extend to the end game.

Mastin: You were killed for being vocal and extremely pro-town. That's it. You're no use to us if you're squeaky-clean. I'm really, really surprised that you didn't try to lay low as the Doc. Also, the Ubaten case was just as weak if not weaker than the PhilyEc one, so I'm still a bit puzzled by your stance on him. Also also, Santos was far closer to scum or maybe even Jester than he was townie to me. And I knew who all the townies were.

Scien: Don't beat yourself up man, you played a good game and had me really worried. And yeah, the above stuff is all true. Game's over, no reason to lie anymore. Which is something of a relief, honestly.

I do remember thinking somewhere in day2 that it was kinda strange that you went from hardcore 'Scien scum!' to 'Oh, well maybe not so much.' I just figured that in your shoes as 'towny' eventually I passed some kind of test that showed that I really wasn't trying to play some kind of 'too_townie' card. (Scum hunting started winning me over here. After all, why would scum go for someone that would be hard to make a case against, you must be towny trying to confirm me! Damn it.)

I was really surprised nobody brought this up. I had my defense ready though. It went along the lines of taking Mastin's Day 1 advice to heart (which I can do now, he's a good guy!) and re-reading the thread with that stuff in mind. It would be my excuse for rocketing sirdanilot up the townieness meter too.

My read-through of the thread told me that Mastin and Scien were the two most pro-town players in the game, so taking them out first is priority #1.

Sigh. I even thought it was funny that you singled out me, and thought Mastin came out smelling like roses incarnate.

My Day 1 play sucked. Day 2 I was going to say, in my best I'm-so-n00b-but-I'm-learning voice, something like: "When I reviewed Day 1 I realized I was equating aggressive play = scum play, which is why I tagged Scien and sirdanilot. With Mastin's thoughts in mind I reread everything and realize that they were just aggressively trying to help the town." spinspinspin

[ I overreach, my case is bad, and I have a hard time defending myself

Eh? I thought you pretty much got off scott free for that. Besides me desperately trying to save myself against one of the most vocial people that I had met up to that point.

It certainly didn't feel that way at the time. I felt like I'd made a fatal error. And your defense felt effortless, hence my change in strategy.

I have nothing to hide, so of course I'll answer all your questions.

Meh. I hope I can be that cool underfire in the future.

I write all my (big) posts in Notepad first. Put it down, leave it, come back to it later, read it again. This helped make sure I wasn't spouting nonsense and not playing off emotion.

One other thing - I never relied on memory. Before I put down any argument, I

always

went back and re-read that part of the thread in context just to make sure what I was saying would pass a smell test. Henrz, if you read this: I think you could benefit from doing this too. You made it easy for me to counter your points Day 3 by just going back and rereading.

Scien is still the most pro-town player, and I don't want him mucking things up with all his damned insights and scumhunting.

Which apparently both suck hard. I think I would be willing to pin this entire town loss on me... although that would not change how I would have played it.

Nor should it. Santos was the best thing that could have happened to us - we had our cop Day 1 and I could roleblock him after that, plus it eliminated one possibility for the Doc. Your play was scary and made me have to think through everything two or three times before I committed anything to the thread.

I rely heavily on the town cred I've earned, especially with Scien.

God damn it.

Fortunately for me, Scien was convinced of my towniness enough that he was willing to shift his view onto Henrz' admittedly weakish case.

God DAMN IT! >.<

Lulz. Like I said, you were key to the endgame. I felt like if I could get you on board, everyone else would follow. This doesn't make the loss your fault though.

I disregarded that so... apparently you had already turned me. Dang it.

Lol. I'm a Sith Lord, yo.

[Henrz]

I worked out it was you right at the end... A tad too late I think, I would of tried to turn give my case Ect... But with Scien, the most Pro-Town on your side, it would've never worked. Why didn't anyone listen to my. "Do not lynch me, I've worked out who is scum

LOGICALLY

". I thought Scien would've atleast given me a chance. Well done on the Cleansheet though, it reminds me of my Yakuza mafia at AomH. But then we controlled the whole game so it was easy .

I should really get lurking as a bigger scum tell, albeit with real life issues... Anyway it was a good game, well done guys, except Santos, you kinda failed.

[Henrz]

Henrz, if you read this: I think you could benefit from doing this too. You made it easy for me to counter your points Day 3 by just going back and rereading.

True, true, I didn't really go back and reread points, so I'm sure I could easily benefit from that. Thanks for a great game anyway guys!

[Scien]

Oh and I knew that avatar came from gremlins. I have vague memories of that movies from my younger childhood.

Don't think I have ever seen it though.

[sirdanilot]

I knew henrz was town. Not sure why

exactly

but I just did.

MM was neutral to scummy. I remember me calling him out on a scummy post of his. I'd rather have seen MM lynched over Santos day 2. Seriously, day 2 was an absolute debacle. Absolutely horrible. I didn't really mind the day1 lynch oddly, because sure one mislynch like that can easily happen, even though if the deadline was longer and there was more activity we might have achieved a better result. But day 2 was just too rushed. I knew santos was the cop, even though I didn't agree with his play at all (and still don't). I hope santos will chime in here to see what he's done.

MVP clearly goes to Papa Zito, whom I truly did not suspect anymore after our debate. I am not sure if I've ever seen scum clear themselves while I was debating with them. Congrats a lot. I think you have a lot of potential to become a fine player on mafia scum, and are clearly a whole class above newbie games now.

I honestly thought xreckoner was scum. I already started to have some gut because of his henrz case (while I thought that henrz was mostly town, off of his defense against xreckoner) and his hammer on santos was what did it for me. I think that if I wouldn't have been nightkilled I would have voted xreckoner then. Certainly not henrz.

So basically, what I personally can learn from this (yes, experienced players learn too): if you really think someone is town, you

can

say it (despite the night kill risk). In this situation I think I should have emphasized that henrz was town because the power roles were dead anyway (so nk didn't matter) and because there were more protown people like scien and, if I can be bold enough to say it, myself.

Overall great game, scum. I would consider papa zito for a scummy, but I don't really have a lot of experience ICing yet (1 finished, 1 ongoing and now this one) so I don't know if his performance was truly exceptional or not (there seems quite good potential all around in newbie games). It's not like we can't do it later. For now these compliments should suffice.

Scien did a good job too, never really suspected him that much. Try to refine your scumhunting just a tiny notch to make a better town game (your post and scumhunting quantity is fine, but your gut and perfect manners of questioning will grow with time). I would be interested to see you as scum; I think you would look very pro town as scum.

Everyone played quite well, except for santos (emo-selfvoting is NOT the way to go.people WILL hammer you, and may not follow your wishes)

[OhGodMyLife]

If Papa Zito sticks around the site and continues playing at a level anywhere near what he demonstrated in this game, I'll be very happily nominating him for a best new player scummy.

[Papa Zito]

If Papa Zito sticks around the site and continues playing at a level anywhere near what he demonstrated in this game, I'll be very happily nominating him for a best new player scummy.

[MiteyMouse]

Hi all...Papa Zito really does deserve the recognition for his play in this game. Behind the scenes he was really bang on right from the start. He was clear in his actions and what he thought should be done in thread. I have played with some really good Scum but, I think that a newbie Scum of his calabre is a real find and I really hope that I get to play with him again in the same capacity! Zito, you earned the victory and thank you for bringing me along for the ride...it really was a pleasure!

It was a tough Day 3 for me...I really felt terrible going after people at that point. You had all earned your spots in the game by that point and, as I said, I was just along for the ride. I really have to say that this was a great group to play with. We all have some to learn but, this is a promising group of players.

Henrz and Reckoner...I know that I was going after you both but, you did so well...the last Day was some really good playing by everyone!

Something interesting to note was that of all the players in the last Day, only Scien was an original. The rest of us subbed in!

[MiteyMouse]

Mastin...in newbie 681 (my first game here) my Scum partner voted himself.

[xRECKONERx]

Zito played this quite well. I wish I had paid more attention and

not

given up on Zito early on. If I had paid attention I wouldn't have considered him the "most pro town" at the end.

[Santos]

Nice job Papa.
Mitey, shame for your lurking.
Henrz, it was interesting playing with you outside of HG :p
Scien, seriously, we have a problem with each other. And you playing mediator almost the entirety of the game made you look scummy in my eyes = appealing to the town's cause while not choosing sides.
Mastin, its a shame you died so early.
RECKONER, ...
Sirdanilot, if I had successfully investigated you, I believe things would have been much easier later with you being out of my mind.

But clearly I was too blinded by Scien's interesting play style to look in any other direction. My bad.

Also, was it Papa Zito who sold out MiteyMouse earlier? LOL. Nice play, because I was interested in lynching her.

[Scien]

Scien, seriously, we have a problem with each other. And you playing mediator almost the entirety of the game made you look scummy in my eyes = appealing to the town's cause while not choosing sides.

Meh, I'll keep that in mind. Just so you know I can mirror your thoughts. You self-voting every time there gets to be a bit of pressure on you, claiming at L-3 in day 1, ignoring questions, having your chief suspicion follow the person who happens to be questioning you the most at the moment, and giving up because you don't want to read anymore makes you look scummy in my eyes. Not a one tactic there would benefit the town in the slightest.

Which is strange. Because when you did ask questions I think a majority of the time they sounded thought out. Also you seemed to keep a pretty level head when defending yourself... well up until self voting or claiming. I mean it, its one of the things I never really understood about your play. You would play fairly well, then BAM get all noobified. Then start playing well. Only to continue the cycle.

I wouldn't say that you epic failed this game, but at any given time you were either doing ok, or getting close to fail. Sorry man.

Sirdanilot, if I had successfully investigated you, I believe things would have been much easier later with you being out of my mind.

Ya. Too bad you pretty much gave up your role with no pressure. Might as well just said in your initial post, 'Uh random vote someone, and I'm the cop.' You do realize that that play was a mistake right?

[Scien]

Scien, seriously, we have a problem with each other. And you playing mediator almost the entirety of the game made you look scummy in my eyes = appealing to the town's cause while not choosing sides.

Meh, I'll keep that in mind. Just so you know I can mirror your thoughts. You self-voting every time there gets to be a bit of pressure on you, claiming at L-3 in day 1, ignoring questions, having your chief suspicion follow the person who happens to be questioning you the most at the moment, and giving up because you don't want to read anymore makes you look scummy in my eyes. Not a one tactic there would benefit the town in the slightest.

Which is strange. Because when you did ask questions I think a majority of the time they sounded thought out. Also you seemed to keep a pretty level head when defending yourself... well up until self voting or claiming. I mean it, its one of the things I never really understood about your play. You would play fairly well, then BAM get all noobified. Then start playing well. Only to continue the cycle.

I wouldn't say that you epic failed this game, but at any given time you were either doing ok, or getting close to fail. Sorry man.

Sirdanilot, if I had successfully investigated you, I believe things would have been much easier later with you being out of my mind.

Ya. Too bad you pretty much gave up your role with no pressure. Might as well just said in your initial post, 'Uh random vote someone, and I'm the cop.' You do realize that that play was a mistake right?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Last Post.