Newbie 817 (Game over!)

[crazypianist1116]

It starts!
Well, random vote time.

Vote: crazypianist1116

Usually, pianos are evil.

Pianos are the most beautiful instrument in the world.

Vote: Maemuki

[crazypianist1116]

I suppose I should create a better "first" post than that one. Welcome everybody to the wonderful world of mafia. I'll make some recommendations to everyone who has not played mafia online (and even those who have): Read The Posts! That includes the opening posts with the helpful links to rules and tactics. Also, use the Preview button. You'll catch your mistakes more easily.
As for myself, I've played a newbie game here before and a few games on another forum. You can refer to me as crazypianist1116, crazypianist, crazy, or CP, but not names which involve a certain mispronunciation of pianist . Perhaps everyone else should give a similar introduction. Anyways, good luck everyone, and may the better team win. Now for the actual game:

Yippee! Started!

So this is a random vote to get the guy to claim?

vote- iamausernam

Now what happens?

First, it's not random if it has a purpose relevant to the game. Second, there is no reason for him to claim. Why are you attacking iamusername? What did he do to you?

[crazypianist1116]

No Lynch is basically a bad idea. An IC will explain this better than I, but essentially, if we end up with No Lynch on Day 1, we get less information from it, and it'll be easier for mafia to get an advantage on later days. We can use the information about who we lynch today for who we think we should lynch tomorrow. If we vote No Lynch, we'll basically start Day 2 the same way we started Day 1 only with one less townie. Oh and by the way, I wasn't trying to create hard feelings, I was just questioning you about your actions. People will do that a lot here so be prepared to explain anything that you do.

Iamusername: It seems odd that you would ask the town if you should claim while you are still 3 votes from lynching (now it's 4). Claiming is not needed so far from a lynch. But you're an SE, you should know this. I am also curious about your vote for Halidon.

[crazypianist1116]

I would also like to know why crazy answered for bouche in post 11.

I responded to bouche's vote because I didn't think that his vote on iamusername was warranted. People shouldn't be forced to claim this early in the game. I'll agree that I was being a bit harsh to a new player of the game.

I am curious about Iamusername's vote on BagSquad. He said based on what everyone has posted so far, BagSquad seems the most scummy, but BagSquad did not write a single post up to that point. BagSquad's response seems like an OMGUS vote and I think he should have offered more insight into that. Bouchedufou's vote on Jeromus was a good vote. He is not posting at all. I have just one request of Bouchedufou: Stop double/triple posting and use the preview button to read over your posts.

Mod: You messed up the vote count

Iamusername is voting for BagSquad. Given that information, BagSquad is now at L-2. This is a situation for a mafia quicklynch. I find BagSquad suspicious, but not suspicious enough to warrant a lynch. I think startransmission is very suspicious as well. 2 of his 3 posts have been with a hot temper, very scum like. Vel-Rahn Koon, did you realize when making your vote that there were 2 votes already on BagSquad, not 1? As of right now, here is my final call:

Unvote

FoS: BagSquad, Startransmission, Jeromus

Jeromus, I would suggest you comment on the thread. Vel-Rahn Koon's post in 31 suggests what could happen to you if you continue lurking. I am also curious as to what Maemuki and Halidon are thinking.

Vel-Rahn Koon, you posted again before I could post so I'll respond to your new posts (specifically 32) now. You seem extremely adamant about lynching BagSquad. Sure, his two posts make him seem scummy, but don't you think you should wait a bit before making that lynch? There's tons of information to be had from day 1, and a page 2 lynch will cause all that information to fly away. Yes, if he doesn't posts too sparsely in the game then I'll support your vote to lynch him but it seems too early in the game to lynch anybody.

[crazypianist1116]

It's not about being harsh to a new player. By answering for someone, you're taking away information about that person that would have appeared when they answered the question. Let people answer questions for themselves so that we get the clues as to alignment that we need to win this game. It also makes it look like you're potentially feeding a partner information so they don't screw up and get caught.

I think I may have misinterpreted Bouchedufou's post. He said "So this is a random vote to get the guy to claim?" I thought he was making an open question about his own vote, not questioning Jeromus' vote. That's why I answered his question and didn't really see any harm in answering it. If I'm still misinterpreting it, feel free to point it out.

No I did not realize that Elmo messed up the vote count, but even so, L-2 is not a bad place for BagSquad to be for the screwup he perpetuated. I'm very happy with BagSquad to be at L-2, and I think he should stay there until he answers the accusations leveled against him.

Mafia will NOT quicklynch BagSquad in this situation. They would both need to vote to do so, and it would out both of them way too early in the game. If BagSquad was at L-1 I could see the need to be ansy, but not L-2.

I know that 2 mafia will not both vote for BagSquad. But 1 mafia might, and a newbie at the game also might, thinking that it'll help move the game along. I don't want things like that to happen this early in the game, especially after the disastrous Day 1 lynch in 807 which happened in the game I was playing in.

Your point against start for his aggressiveness is bad. In fact, this entire paragraph:

Mod: You messed up the vote count Iamusername is voting for BagSquad. Given that information, BagSquad is now at L-2. This is a situation for a mafia quicklynch. I find BagSquad suspicious, but not suspicious enough to warrant a lynch. I think startransmission is very suspicious as well. 2 of his 3 posts have been with a hot temper, very scum like. Vel-Rahn Koon, did you realize when making your vote that there were 2 votes already on BagSquad, not 1? As of right now, here is my final call:
Unvote
FoS: BagSquad, Startransmission, Jeromus

Is a bit off. You're attacking someone for being aggressive, which is not a scumtell. You're also slightly defending the scummiest, BY FAR, player in the game at this point. Why? If he's suspicious, why is he not suspicious enough for a lynch? Again, I'm not advocating lynching

right now

, and if that's also what you're trying to say you need to think about your word choices in the future, since your statement seems very black and white. I'm reading it as saying that you won't consider lynching him, yet you've placed him first in your FoS list.

I've always seen aggressiveness as being a bit scummy. It makes a person seem as if they're a scum trying to get the rest of the town to follow their vote and lynch a townie. Sure it can be helpful if you're a doctor questioning a known mafia but that's not the case here. Besides, doesn't anyone else thinking saying:

A no lynch is a fucking disaster. Those who argue for it are always firmly at the top of my scum list. Just saying. I'd go into it, but our illustrious IC would do a better job.

to someone who's brand new to the game is extremely harsh? There was no need to curse, it was still the first page of the game. But back to VRK's point. I wouldn't mind a lynch of BagSquad, I just don't think it needs to be right now. Like I said:

if he posts too sparsely in the game then I'll support your vote to lynch him

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[crazypianist1116]

jesus christ you people

I feel as if you don't even want to play. Critique other people's posts. You're really coming off as annoying and that will lead to a lynch.

Would post more but I'm at camp...

[crazypianist1116]

Responding to prod. I'll post tomorrow (well, within 12 or so hours that is). SOrry I haven't posted much. I was at sleep away camp and today I went to a Dream Theater Concert.

[crazypianist1116]

Well here's my analysis. Before I start I would like to welcome hiphop and starbuck.
Starting from post 39:

That's nothing. Try playing with Albert B. Rampage, or TSQ, or SensFan, or one of the other REALLY aggressive players. Some people just play like that, effectively making it a null tell. Just because it might offend your moral sensibilities doesn't make the person scum. This can also quickly lead to tunnel vision - simply because a person cusses, which you don't like, and now you're mentally painting them as scum in the back of your mind. The best players in this game look at every post objectively. Don't read into it something that may or may not be there. And besides, it's the internet

Will do.

Now what I'd like to know is why 3 people are jumping on startransmission? Anybody care to explain why they feel he's scummy?

I'm going to go ahead and just say Read The Posts. Maemuki and I gave reasons; Jeromus was trying to put pressure on him because he thought startransmission was similar to scum in his last game.

I agree with you that being aggressive is pro-town, but it's when that aggressiveness starts turning into over-aggressiveness that some people may start to grow some suspicion of you.

I'm curious as to whether you thought he was being overly-aggressive at that point in the game.
Startransmission pointed out that Maemuki has been only posting about Bagsquad, which is true. There are too many long posts that have been bouncing aroudn to only comment on Bagsquad. She could comment on what other people think of bagsquad, what other people think of each other etc. If you could, talk about the recent posts.

And finally, we have hiphop. I won't hold Bagsquad's posts against you because I think they were made by a troll but I will hold your words against you. Firstly, don't vote for someone without reason. Even if you just want to create activity. It creates a lot of red flags. Additionally your first two posts made it seem as if you were really trying to distance yourself from Bagsquad, as if you were trying to distance yourself from a scum partner. We understood it the first time you said it. Aside from that, I'm more interested in what you think of everyone else's conversations. Perhaps make a post similar to 56.

[crazypianist1116]

P.S. crazypianist, what do you think of Starbuck?

Starbuck's a good player. Her points are all valid and I don't see any reason to suspect her. Although the fact that she hasn't said anything about me is somewhat weird.

What I don't understand is wouldn't scum act the same as town? Scum want a lynch the same as town as long as it isn't their buddy. They can put a vote on anybody, and give a reason. As far as I am concerned, the only way I see scum showing up to everybody else is by their vote pattern. As for over aggressiveness, that could be the personallity, rather than scum.

I believe we can have two misses on a lynch, and still have the majority, but if we miss the first two lynches, we will have to be sure we lynch scum the next two times.

About the roles, are they random in a newbie game? Or are the mafia members given to an experienced player and a non experienced player.

As for Startransmission, I will do my best concerning that challenge.

I believe that in the mafia help rules, it says something like scum will draw attention that they are looking for scum. So iamausername has a point worth considering about Startransmission.

vote:Startransmission

Your hypothetical statements really bother me. We should be focused on getting mafia on the first day not on the third day. Additionally what you said about Startrnasmission is rather weird. "Scum will draw attention that they are looking for scum." This makes no sense. Shouldn't every townie be looking for scum as well? Either way, he was voting for BagSquad but now he unvoted. It really seems as if you're just jumping on iamusername's wagon. You also haven't been answering any of the questions asked of you. As of now I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: hiphop

[crazypianist1116]

Why is that weird? I really haven't found anything suspicious of you.

I didn't mean weird in a scummy sort of way it's just like if you're playing a game with someone, you'll eventually talk about them in one way or another.

[crazypianist1116]

How many games have you played in before this one, hiphop?

[crazypianist1116]

Day 1, Vote Count #4

startransmission (2) <- iamausername, crazypianist1116
hiphop <- Vel-Rahn Koon
bouchedufou <- hiphop

Not voting: Starbuck, Maemuki, bouchedufou, jeromus, startransmission.

I am voting for hiphop.
Will post later.

[crazypianist1116]

Mod: Jeromus's last post is on July 30th. We are now well past 72 hours, will he be getting replaced?

Funny you accuse me of not reading, and then ask this question. We already had one example showing that it's 48 hours from the prod not 72 hours from the last post.

[crazypianist1116]

jeromus has been prodded.

The mod should begin looking for a replacement on August 06 at 8:04AM (unless he PM prodded Jeromus earlier). The time zone itself doesn't matter, it just has to be 48 hours from post 120.

[crazypianist1116]

August 6th will be 48 hours from the time he was prodded (assuming the mod did not prod him earlier than when he posted it). That will be the time by which he needs to respond in thread. If he doesn't then Elmo will start looking for a replacement. I think the mix up may be that you didn't realize that the prod didn't come until after the 72 hours passed, not exactly on the 72nd hour. In an ideal world, the prod would have come August 2nd at 6:39 but it didn't come until August 4th at 8:04 AM.

[crazypianist1116]

My feelings towards others as of now:
Bouchedufou - I agree with post 123 except for the FoS on Starbuck. It just seemed a bit unwarranted.

Hiphop - Your reason for voting Bouchedufou is rather weak. He never really targeted you, he just thought your vote was suspicious. I had the same suspicions, voting without any real reason. Do you have anything to say about his response in post 123? Also could you explain what you meant by:

In my past experiences usually a vote from the scummiest player, does not get the votey worked up. Yet you seem to take it to heart. I believe you did the same thing when you were called on wheather you knew starbuck was a girl.
It is just one vote.

Are you calling yourself the scummiest player or are you calling Bouchedufou the scummiest player?

Iamausername - What do you think of the 3 votes on hiphop? Do you think he's worthy of them?

Jeromus - Insight into what you think has happened in the past 3 pages please.

Maemuki - What do you think of the votes on hiphop?

Starbuck/startransmission I don't have any questions of you.

And finally, Vel-Rahn Koon:
Your posts haven't really offered much insight into the game itself, you have been mainly asking questions rather than commenting on other people's play. Does your vote for hiphop hold or is that a vote for BagSquad? If you intend to keep your vote on hiphop, why so? Do you think that Bouchedufou's vote on hiphop is a good vote? How about mine? What do you think of other people's play?

Mod: 72 hours since Maemuki startransmission and iamausername's last posts?

[crazypianist1116]

Still waiting for Jeromus and VRK to make substantial posts. Also Maemuki.

To all: If you had to lynch someone right now, who would it be?

[crazypianist1116]

Mod: Is replacing someone with less than 3 days left considered an extreme circumstance?

I'm asking for an extension since there will be no lynch if we don't reach the required number of votes.

[crazypianist1116]

If I

had

to lynch someone right now it would be bouche, followed closely by Mae. He (gender ?) has had several people push against him, and knowing his alignment would help lead us to other potential suspects. Mae's lynch wouldn't help get us much more information like bouche's could potentially get us, but the active lurking is not helping get a handle on alignment. Good question crazy - do you have an opinion as well to add?

Let me make sure I'm understanding this correctly. You think that if we lynch bouche, and he flips scum, then the people voting him are more likely to be town and if he flips town, the people voting him are more likely to be scum. But couldn't that just be WIFOM?

As for my opinion, I'm voting for him right now. Starbuck and iamausername's recent points have added to my reasons for voting hiphop.

[crazypianist1116]

29 hours left.

[crazypianist1116]

I think there is one question everybody should be asking themselves.

Why was iamausername lynched?

I only have two reasons:
1. The mafia wanted to throw suspicion elsewhere. The mafia could of been low on his list, and they could hope the town goes with my second solution.
2. iamusername was adding pressure to the mafia.

Asking why someone was night killed really is just playing WIFOM. We should concentrate more on what was said in thread rather than speculating about the mafia's thoughts.

[crazypianist1116]

Can you tell me how we have any more information from before the NK and the lynch until after, besides knowing that mae and iamausername are towns, because their comments only reflect what they think, and they are not scum?

Based on the way people attacked Mae/iamausername, we can make inferences to other people's positions, knowing that those two are town.

One more question for you.

Before the lynch and knowing if Mae was town or not, were you in favor of having a no lynch than lynching Mae?

I would have rather lynched anybody over no lynch but had I known Mae was town, I would not have voted for her lynch. Same question goes to you.

[crazypianist1116]

I'd like to stay in on the game, but I really don't have a lot of time to spare right now. So I'll just post what I feel from my reading so far, without much back-up.

Well so long as you can post every 3 days, we're welcome to keep you in.

My first reaction to the night kill is VRK. Now, I know he could have been framed, so rather than go into a WIFOM discussion of why he was killed, could somebody look up iama's suspicions on VRK? And also any other suspicions he had.

I have to admit I thought this too but the WIFOM thing pushed me away from it. Then again, VRK really has been acting lurk-ish. He hasn't posted since Day 2 dawn, although I will give him the BOTD because of:

Sorry guys, my class' final exam is tomorrow and I've had students in and out of my office since Tuesday morning. Every time I sit to read I get interrupted, so this is going to have to wait. I still have to get the final exam written and I'm out of time both here and IRL.

To VRK: What did you think of the Maemuki lynch since you weren't around at deadline? Would you have voted for her yourself?

As for iamausername's suspicions of VRK:

Notice how the question was asked and the bolded part of my statement. If I HAD to lynch someone, RIGHT NOW. Frankly I don't see any "good" candidates for lynching at the moment. But we're not under the HAVE TO clause at this time - we still have until Friday.

I'm well aware of the context, and I somewhat agree with the "no good candidates" point, but I don't see that it makes that much difference to my central point. You're still arguing for the lynch of someone that I believe to be town, for reasons that I find scummy.

And yes, we really are under the HAVE TO clause. Factor in the time for the leading lynch candidate to claim, and for everyone else to evaluate their claim and respond to it, and we really need to be coming to some kind of consensus on who that leading lynch candidate actually is, ooh, about yesterday.

As for the jero versus Mae line, yes I do think Mae's lurking has been more egregious because her lurking has been more active than jero's. And since Elmo is replacing jero I have to believe the problems he said he was having were genuine.

You can't really use jeromus's replacement to justify your position before we knew he was being replaced, but otherwise, fair enough.

So, yes, just in case I didn't stress the urgency enough earlier:

WE DO NOT HAVE MUCH TIME. IF YOU ARE NOT VOTING, YOU SHOULD BE.

Unvote, Vote: Vel-Rahn Koon

[crazypianist1116]

Petunho, your cases against Starbuck and VRK are weak.

Our beloved IC is coming out really scummy. He didn't contribute at all in the end (okay he got lot of work to do), but also his contribution after the first accusation against Baggy has been pathetic. The most scummy thing is that he didn't gave his vote to nobody.

No, it is NOT a good idea to No Lynch on Day 1, so let's not suggest it.

And still you didn't vote! Having no good candidates is no good excuse for not voting in the last 24 hours, it's only sign of you wanting to keep low profile. For scums it's of course good thing if Town nails a townie without they voting. Why didn't you cast your vote?

I will do a PBPA of everyone within the next 24 hours, since the deadline is near. I'm not going to write a wall of text - I will give a synopsis of my major suspicions with regards to each player.

Still waiting for this one!

Vote: Vel-Rahn Koon

I think VRK cleared up both these points in post 265.

No vote was cast because, literally, I was at work from 8 am until 10 pm that night proctoring the exam and grading it. The day before I spent 7 hours writing the exam, and I was at work until midnight. I had no desire, at all, to check the game. The only Mafia-related activities I did in the 48 hour period leading up to the lynch was check my games for vote counts and update the queue, and I only did those because it's my job on the site and I have to do them. I didn't know who was lynched until Saturday morning when I checked the thread.

For what it's worth, had I been able and willing to get on I would have voted for Mae. That close to the deadline with no clear candidate you are almost always better off lynching someone than no one.

As for yesterday's lynch, it was quite obvious when it was coming down to the wire that hiphop wasn't going to be lynched. 2 more people would have to vote for hiphop and the only candidates were startransmission, Maemuki, iamausername, PEtunho, and Vel-Rahn Koon (keep in mind this was before Starbuck changed the vote). VRK obviously wasn't going to be on. Startransmission had already said he thought Maemuki was more scummy than hiphop as had you. Even if Maemuki had voted for hiphop, there wouldn't have been enough votes on him to lynch. And Starbuck already said that she found Maemuki suspicious.

It's obvious that a lynch on someone suspicious is better than no lynch and that's why Starbuck changed her vote from #1 to #2.

FoS: Petunho

[crazypianist1116]

Hammer

[crazypianist1116]

Actually, it is 22%. Just because you say you're town doesn't mean anything. In a totally random environment, which is where iama was initially making the statement from, on Day 1 you have a 22% chance of hitting scum.

@all: how do you feel about hiphop's recent arguments? Is he swaying you towards him being town? If not, who do you see as a possible partner? If so, who do you feel we should concentrate on next? We have 13 days left.

I'd like to hear from crazy as well, and bouched. I know bouched is going to be back this week. I doubt Petunho is going to get a post of substance in before the deadline.

I don't see a partner for hiphop, to be honest. Everyone came out against him today.

Sorry I haven't been posting much recently. I've been practicing piano about 6 hours a day so I haven't had a whole lot of time. I'll try and respond to the questions tonight.

[crazypianist1116]

ATTN: I will be V/LA from Saturday until Thursday or Friday

Visiting colleges.

[crazypianist1116]

Crazy have you ever been scum before?

vote:Starbuck

No; see my wiki. Why do you ask? I'm guessing you're voting Starbuck for the reasons above.

I got interested on Crazy. Why do you like to defend Starbuck so much? Starbuck has been active so I cannot see reason for you rushing to save her.

First we got this when iama asked how do you feel about Starbuck.

Starbuck's a good player. Her points are all valid and I don't see any reason to suspect her.

Can scumbuddy say it any clearer?

IIRC, that post was relatively early in the game and I really didn't have any reason to suspect Starbuck. Feel free to give some evidence of her scuminess before that post was made. May I also note that similarly friendly quotes were made in your post 204.

Bouchedufou - I agree with post 123 except for the FoS on Starbuck. It just seemed a bit unwarranted.

Then you questioned Bouch's FOS from 123, which was warranted

at the time

because Starbuck was really defending hiphop and if he would have flipped scum Starbuck would have lot of accusations to answer.

Bouched FoS'd Starbuck because of post 118. Can you point out to me where Starbuck defended hiphop in that post? I at least felt that Starbuck was attacking bouched rather than defending hiphop.

No Lynch is basically a bad idea.

As for yesterday's lynch, it was quite obvious when it was coming down to the wire that hiphop wasn't going to be lynched.

Why didn't you change your vote if you knew that hiphop wasn't going to be lynched?

I didn't post a single time between that first vote of Maemuki that you made and the time the hammer fell. I wasn't able to.

It's obvious that a lynch on someone suspicious is better than no lynch and that's why Starbuck changed her vote from #1 to #2.

After when did you have the ability to know what Starbuck was thinking?

Hmmm...

Ah, yes! During the night when you two had the chance to discuss what had happened and what to do next.

I agree with Start.

FOS Crazy

as Starbuck's scumbuddy.

I said that because that's common sense in F11 Day 1. I assumed that was what Starbuck was thinking. Forgive me if I'm wrong.

@all: how do you feel about hiphop's recent arguments? Is he swaying you towards him being town? If not, who do you see as a possible partner? If so, who do you feel we should concentrate on next? We have 13 days left.

I'd like to hear from crazy as well, and bouched. I know bouched is going to be back this week. I doubt Petunho is going to get a post of substance in before the deadline.

I don't see a partner for hiphop, to be honest. Everyone came out against him today.

Bleghhh hiphop, what can I say. If I had more time, I would go back and read his posts again. But now I must sleep. Hopefully I'll write more when I get to Michigan.

If not, V/LA till Thursday.

[crazypianist1116]

Back from vacation. I'm reading.

[crazypianist1116]

Why I FoS'd Petunho:

In post 269, he linked VRK and Starbuck:

There was only VRK and Mae who could have jumped on the hiphop wagon, but there was crazy, bouch, and hiphop that could jump on Mae's wagon.

You calculated 1+1 = Lynch Mae.

I calculate VRK + Starbuck = Scumpair.

I just have one vote so I keep it where it is.

FOS: Starbuck

I didn't feel that he had a case against VRK because VRK posted this:

No vote was cast because, literally, I was at work from 8 am until 10 pm that night proctoring the exam and grading it. The day before I spent 7 hours writing the exam, and I was at work until midnight. I had no desire, at all, to check the game. The only Mafia-related activities I did in the 48 hour period leading up to the lynch was check my games for vote counts and update the queue, and I only did those because it's my job on the site and I have to do them. I didn't know who was lynched until Saturday morning when I checked the thread.

For what it's worth, had I been able and willing to get on I would have voted for Mae. That close to the deadline with no clear candidate you are almost always better off lynching someone than no one.

Additionally, I didn't think he had a case against Starbuck at that time but he still FOS'd her.

More tomorrow, I just wanted to answer that question.

[crazypianist1116]

[huge post]I read through Day 2. Then I read through hiphop Day 2 in iso. Then I read through Day 2 again. I think hiphop is scum.

Hiphop in iso:
24:

The two scummiest people I find right now are bouched and iamausername. This quote made by username sums it up.

If it comes down to a choice between hiphop or bouched (I specify these two because they are the only other players who have any votes at all right now), I will vote for hiphop.

That's fence sitting. That is pushing for my lynch without voting for me. Very bad, and very scummy indeed. You are sitting on that fence, waiting to see if anybody will jump in. Later after my lynch, you can say, "He had the most votes on him I didn’t know if he was scum or not.”
2nd thing about this quote. I don’t know how you can get a town read from bouched. You are defending him for no reason. That is budding. That is also very bad. You cannot know for sure of which side he is on without being scum. Since you say he is town, he is scum too.

This quote shows me that iamausername is fence sitting, and budding, two scummy acts. This leads me to believe he is scum.

This is bull. Hiphop has been “fencesitting” throughout day 2.

33:
Startransmission has pointed this out as scummy several times but I figured I would just say it again.

38:
WIFOM setting off alarms.

40:

I voted for two reasons:
1. She asked to be voted, I think because she wanted to get on the newbie list, because she signed up again as soon as I voted.
2. I was thinking 75% town, but that 25% I wasn't sure of. I couldn't be positive, so I had to vote.

These aren’t reasons to vote. Part 2 could have been applied to anybody.

44:

As far as our IC, I've written VRK off. May well be scum, but I can't point to enough to warrant a vote. It's just a loss. It's a symptom on this site, IC's often sign up for games they

never end up playing in depth due to all the other games

they are involved in, be it playing or modding.

And finally the buddying. You find Mae suspicious because she doesn’t post anything substantial, yet you say,” never end up playing in depth due to all the other games,” about Vrk. Looks like the same reason to me. In fact it is the same definition of lurking just worded differently. Why is VRK different than Mae? He is not. They both haven’t given us anything good. This is where Petunho comes in. He said Mae was acting the same as he was. Vrk is doing the same thing. That was my problem with Mae, one couldn’t tell if she was town or scum. VRK I can’t tell either, yet startransmission is willing to say he is town. WOW. I don’t believe this.

VRK is different from Mae because he gave a reason for his lurking. He posted stuff with substance. Mae was actively lurking, doing nothing but posting anti-prods.

45:
This post is full of scummy stuff which I believe VRK has shown.

47:

Just a quickie to stay in the game. I'd like to keep voting for hiphop from the day so far, but obviously I can't.

Let me get this straight, you wanted to keep your vote on me from the first day, yet for some odd reason you didn't do that in your first post of the second day. Why? Is it because of the recent arguments and you want to follow everybody else? If that is so why didn't you say something about that in this post? If iama hadn't said that you showed signs of being a newbie townie, and being iama is now a known town, I would still have suspicions of you. So now I can accept the arguments of an experienced known town and say you are probably town as well.

So you would rather he vote you and lynch you?

51:

In post 252 you gave your justification for voting Mae after the lynch happened. That is where I found you suspicious. Nobody asked you for a justification from you. To me it sounds like you wrote your justification just so that nobody could question your vote that nobody questioned in the first place. To me it looks like you want to clear your name and leave no doubt that you honestly believed that Mae was scum and didn’t expect her to be lynched, when she clearly just might be. That is where your scumtell was. Your vote is not an issue, it is your justification in post 252.

But he justified his vote before the lynch as well...

I'm torn between voting maemuki or hiphop. Maemuki has rubbed me the wrong way this entire game. She is an active lurker, and I get a weird vibe when she does post. The only problem is that if she is lynched and turns up town we will have very little to work with.

52:

L-1 doesn't bother me. I can still post at L-1. L-1 and L-4 to me are not much different except only one more person needs to change their mind in order to lynch me.

Because obviously having 0 votes on you and 3 votes on you is completely the same.

If somebody does lynch me without waiting for a couple of days left, they would be seriously anti-town. There is no reason to lynch me sooner than later. I hope you guys give me the same courtesy that I gave Mae.

Way to be a beggar.

There is nothing innocent about a vote. It is a deadly thing, that cuts someone off without another post.

Wait but I thought 0 votes and 3 votes were the same thing!

I never tried to make my vote innocent. I call it self defense trying to get rid of scum.

Self-defense when she wasn't attacking you?

I am learning to defend myself from a mini that I am currently playing in on this site, and I am glad I get to put it to some use. Otherwise I would be like Crazy wondering who to attack without someone attacking him. I hate quotewars so I summarize.

I stopped wondering.

55:

@startransmission how? Here we were arguing together and you never convinced me on one point. You make one post on the person who I thought was town, and I am enlightened.
For that

Fos:Starbuck

I am not entirely convinced, but she moved up on my scummy list.

Way to get ready to jump on the bandwagon without giving a reason of your own.

57:

Crazy have you ever been scum before?

vote:Starbuck

He jumps!

63:

Here is how I think the votes will go.
I believe Petunho will not switch.
Starbuck and I obviously will not change.

So you planned this with Starbuck?

Bouch will vote for me, because he hasn’t let go of me from day 1.
Start and VRK I am unsure about, though I am leaning they will vote for me.
Crazy will not vote his partner if he and Starbuck are scum, so he will vote me.

Way to accuse me with no evidence as you just did with Starbuck!


65:
Moves away from Starbuck as people are suspicious of him for attacking her. Startran/Petunho is a bad case. The Jeromus quotes were a result of the Random Voting Stage.

Our name nightmare

startranmission

. There has been good posts by Start and I really liked the post #159, where he did a summary on Starbuck. I agree most of those points and even though Starbuck tried to null those accusations I still believe you did try to cover hiphop. Start could contribute more, by giving those good analyzes of the game on other players also. No bad vibes from him.

“No bad vibes” Now what does that tell us? I will let you guys develop that thought.

Waiting for other people to call it buddying? This is similar to post 232.

66:
Hopping off the wagon now that startransmission has. In addition, scum pairs are a really bad thing to look for unless you already know one of the scum.

tl;dr Hiphop is really suspicious to me. His voting patterns basically just follow what others do. His logic has holes. His accusations are riddled with mistakes.[/huge post]

[crazypianist1116]

This is why I hate lurkers. They don’t let the arguments settle. By the time they read it still is fresh in their minds, so they don’t think about it. While if Crazy was actually staying with the game, he could think about what has been said instead of having an initial reaction. Also my posts can be fresh in my mind instead of having to go read back at what has been said.

Entire cases can be built on evidence after arguments have "settled." Either way, I was V/LA in case you didn't notice so I wasn't able to keep up with the game.

I understand where you're coming from, but I just don't see it. Starbuck was really after hiphop during the last half of day 1. She pursued his lynch and in many ways led the charge, despite being the third voter. If they were partners I could see Starbuck bussing hiphop if he was an awful player and his lynch was a sure thing, but she voted for him fairly early on, and kept that vote there until it was clear the momentum had shifted. If she was trying to bus him then that shit was pretty cold, and above all unnecessary. Not impossible, but it seems like a pretty big stretch.

See you can't find a likely partner for me, which means I am probably not scum. That is why we should attack buddies, and not individauls.

Now you really sound like you're trying not to get caught.

So, I'll be voting for hiphop tomorrow. If my vote means his lynch, I actually hope to be the hammer. I've spent so much time arguing with him that I kinda savor the chance.

Hate to ruin your mood, but I am not scum.

Because scum would obviously say they're scum.
Startran, I wanted to be the hammer vote but you can too

I believe VRK and Starbuck and others have brought it up. I for one found it suspicious. You OMGUS me, we have a big debate... then I switch gears for a second, and you come around and vote for the person you said you thought was most likely town based off the argument of the person you think is most likely scum? Of course people are going to find that suspicious.

I can't attack someone without voting or FOS somebody. Otherwise I would be fencesitting. I for one like to look at the other possibility, being that you might be town. If that is the case your case against Starbuck might be town scumhunting.

Um, fencesitting is not making a decision between voting for two players, which is how you originally used it. You're changing your definition.

I addressed this already

. I wasn't justifying anything, I was pointing out what was wrong with your reasons for voting Mae by presenting mine (and everybody elses) reasons for voting Mae as a

contrast

to your reasons. This is a dead horse, yet you keep beating it.

I thought you said you read Crazy's post here let me show what he wrote:

But he justified his vote before the lynch as well...

See he brought it up as an accusation against me. If some lurker is going to bring up and old post I will defend myself, and point out the reason why I brought it up in the first place. Blame it on the lurker, not me.

I was looking at you in iso (only your posts). You said that you thought he had bad justification after the lynch but he justified himself when he originally voted.

Seems the same? Is he hammering you and then saying he never thought you were scum? His vote for you is not even in the same ballpark. And way to play the victim card.

Bouch said that I almost seem like town. Does that make sense?

But he said

However, your play style really makes me uncomfortable and make me think you're mafia ... It's just the way you're jumping around makes me feel very uncomfortable.

You're probably his #1 suspect.

If you flip town then I will go after Starbuck. The more important question that town should be asking themselves is when you flip scum, who do we go after next? I'm in the same predicament that VRK is... I can't get a scumbuddy read on anybody.

No matter how hard you look there is no connection, because I am not scum.

@VRK Do you think it is likely that both scum are on my BW? Or would they be fencesitting like Crazy (who didn’t even FOS me, but attacked me)?

I think it would be weird for VRK to think that both scum are on your BW as he is voting for you thus he thinks you're scum.

[crazypianist1116]

3 hours.

[crazypianist1116]

*crickets chirping*

Eh I don't think anyone else is going to post in the next hour.

[crazypianist1116]

Ok if someone else doesn't post, I'm hammering.

[crazypianist1116]

Rereading with knowledge that hiphop and Petunho are town.

[crazypianist1116]

Prod bouched and vrk please.

Currently reading. Sorry I'm taking so long, I'm almost done.

[crazypianist1116]

I'm pleading the I just got my wisdom teeth taken out case.

[crazypianist1116]

Ok responding to prod. I'm really sorry. I've been swamped with school work. As of late I re-read Day 1 again and got scummy vibes from bouched actually. I'll explain it more tomorrow but now I have to sleep.

[crazypianist1116]

Bouched's case against hiphop on Day 1 really stood out to me. It seemed as if he was really reactive to hiphop attacking him. Additionally, bouched criticized hiphop for unvoting Maemuki for no reason (this was before the lynch), but hiphop had obviously changed his vote to iamausername. Additionally on Day 2, bouched starts the day with a suspicion on hiphop. His vote towards the end of day 2 on hiphop seems really, Really weird:

@hiphop, I'm really sorry. Now, you're going to feel like I'm picking on you, and I probably am. However, your play style really makes me uncomfortable and make me think you're mafia, perhaps you should consider changing it? Or maybe I should get less sensitive, lol. It's just the way you're jumping around makes me feel very uncomfortable. At this point, I almost feel you might be town. And your argument against PS is very compelling. But unless someone else like VRK or Starbuck backs your suspicions against PS, I'm going to vote: hiphop.

It just doesn't have any substance.

I'll respond more over the weekend when I can read all of day 2 not just bouched's iso.

[crazypianist1116]

Weekend is here. I'm reading.

[crazypianist1116]

I'm going to go ahead and say that I think bouched and Start are the scumpair.

Bouched I've talked about earlier. Start just rubs me the wrong way. Day 2 it seemed like he was almost overreacting to hiphop accusing him because of start's vote on Mae. Additionally, it seems as if his only solid evidence on starbuck is starbuck's day 1 maemuki vote. If I had to lynch either, it would be bouched. I'll post more later.

[crazypianist1116]

I claim vanilla. I'm leaning towards Starbuck being scum now because of the weak vote. It seems like she is trying to get one of the remaining two townies to vote for start (this is, assuming start is town). Zorblag, why are you less convinced that there would be power roles?

[crazypianist1116]

Ok I'll trust you.

Mod: What's the status of the prod?

[crazypianist1116]

I'll talk about why I think that after bouchedufou claims. I know that it looks like I'm obstructing things unnecessarily but I really do have a reason for this and it shouldn't take much longer to finish the mass claim at all with only one left to go.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

So what's your theory?

[crazypianist1116]

@crazypianist1116, I liked how you started this game a fair amount. If anyone was paying attention to everything that was going on it was you. That seems to have tapered off some recently. It'd be great if you could go back and use the same eye for details that you were showing the first day and see what you think of Starbuck and startransmission now. Since I've arrived you've had your opinion change from disliking startransmission becuase he rubs you the wrong way to disliking Starbuck because her most recent vote was a weak one. Those are both all well and good (and to be fair up till now what I've said about Starbuck isn't really that much more complicated than saying that her reason for voting is weak) but what would you like to see from them to help you decide if you had to pick one of the two to lynch? What have they done already that I've missed in my read throughs?

Well I have to be honest. School started at the beginning of September, and since then, I haven't had a ton of time. I'm reading what's being said (I really liked 429 btw). Your point that one of them must be scum is most likely true. Scum would have quicklynched in that time.
I think I'd like to see better cases from both of them. Starbuck's is weak. Start's was essentially all made on Day 2.

To you, start, and starbuck: Who do you think the other mafia is?

[crazypianist1116]

Responding to prod. Sorry, didn't realize I haven't posted in that long, I've been keeping up with reading though.

[crazypianist1116]

I'm leaning towards lynching Starbuck. Her cases is weak and she hasn't really offered a defense against start. If the game stays like this, I'm voting for her tomorrow.

[crazypianist1116]

I should be on before deadline tomorrow.

[crazypianist1116]

Damn. And I was just about to vote for starbuck too. Well I'm sorry my activity dropped off so much in the end. I really didn't have any clue. I felt that start's case was better but I couldn't create one of my own...

[crazypianist1116]

Well I really couldn't get a read on you. Your posts had me thinking you were scum but I didn't know why. Start just seemed innocent to me.