Newbie 843 (Game Over)

[tubby216]

/ confirm.

Hi folks I'm tubby and i will be one of you SE's for this game. Wich basically means I have been around and played a few games here and there. If you have questions about gameplay or theroy please do not hesitate to ask.

[tubby216]

yah i was gonna say,


hi thar Ash

[tubby216]

@mod, so we are waiting on quatermaster?

[tubby216]

oh wait zeebee too huh,

[tubby216]

yipee

[tubby216]

vote meji

being first is overated

[tubby216]

interesting i'll have to look into that ash.

but we need moar posts please

[tubby216]

that puts meji at L-2, more talk please

[tubby216]

see now we have a disscusion going, and thank you to meji who was paying attention you get a cookie.

vote: yernab

for trying to make us all swim in the deep end of the WIFOM pool.

[tubby216]

Alright, alright - if my methods aren't productive, just let me know or propose a different topic of discussion. I was just trying to get some posting going, and as I've said this is my first game here - you'll have to bear with me if my posts seem a bit ham-handed. =P

However, Tubby: the last two votes for you are because of your lack of discussion while calling for discussion. Your latest post seems nothing more than a "oh, good job guys, I'll just vote based off of Meji's post without really saying anything".

Now, you could just be a concise writer, but you really haven't brought anything to the table yet. For instance, you obviously disagree with my post, but tell us why, or what parts strike you as scummy.

Still withholding my vote for now.

because thats how i roll. you will not see from me large posts full of texts, i my quote people but sooner or later you'll see what i am getting out. Its like making soup right now you all you see is the ingrediants and your like WFT? but soon you'll see it.

[tubby216]

confident, yes, cocky no.

i have about a 56% sucess rate with this method wich isn't the greatest but it will do.

[tubby216]

Any idea whether creating scumlists are good for discussion or not?

lists of suspicion are goodbut are usually better when done close to the end of the day.

[tubby216]

@crazypianist: We're not arguing about smileys. I just put it in my argument as a passing remark, but yernab's the one making a big deal out of it. That's why I believe he's scum trying to draw attention away from my main points and concentrating on the smiley point.

agree with this post.

[tubby216]

@ash,
sorry i thought i answered that question then i realized it was in that "other Game" lol.

but to me it doesn't really matter wich scum or town. I would prefer i guess a serial killer role that its like a solo win. but we don't to worry about those in the newbie que.

[tubby216]

also i wanna appologize i will try to get into this game do a real thorough read tomorrow and post thoughts before sat.

[tubby216]

after a re-read i feel i am confindant in my vote.

[tubby216]

well we have to think of something deadline is in 3 days,

[tubby216]

sorry i thought i read where this game was dealined for the 29th but i could be wrong

[tubby216]

a LoS is a bit anti-town imo, it provides target for scum to mislynch and kill.

Isn't this kind of mindset a bit anti-discussion? Want to go into detail about why suspicion lists bother you?

good scum can always find a good way to jump on a bandwagon that is top in most people's LoS. and scum can always nk the one that is at the bottom of most LoS to get rid of the most pro-town player.

i like LoS's when i was scum.

please note the bolded

Him being an SE, I believe we can find some meta from manho, so I'm going to check to see how he used to behave in games where he's scum or he's town.

the label people as SE too easily.

i've finished 2 games only in MS, both being townie,

and you can check them in my wiki.

or were you talkin about that other site cause i am a lil lost

F.O.S. manho

and yes it is a bit omgus'y

[tubby216]

i asked a question i'd like him to answer

[tubby216]

@manho are those games played like they are here? meaning day time is vote driven rather than say time driven?

that is to say the day ends here when a majority vote is cast,

time driven means you have 24hours and the player with the most votes is lynched.

and can you provide a link?

[tubby216]

thanks manho

[tubby216]

re-reading thoughts soon

[tubby216]

well i still like yernab for scum, but with the deadline comeing
i'll just have to look into BJL later then

unvote, vote wrathofshadows

[tubby216]

Why yes, yes he did.

meh someone had to do it might as well be me,

i'll have some answers and cool stuff for you tomorrow

[tubby216]

Why yes, yes he did.

meh someone had to do it might as well be me,

i'll have some answers and cool stuff for you tomorrow

You better because hammering without any reason at all is super scummy.

i had a reason. I wanted to,,, so theres your reason.

and don't call Sir, at one time i did work for a living.

[tubby216]

Tubby, even if the deadline's coming up there's still time to think properly about who we should vote for! You say that you think yernab's the most suspicious, as do I, but you voted for Wrath even though you didn't suspect him at all. He'll be lynched by deadline anyway, with his number of votes, so why rush it when there's no absolutely concrete evidence?

Is this scummy or VI?

1)waiting till deadline to simply get a lynch is weak,

2) day1 lynches always have the east amount of info/evidence

3) my hammer isn't a VI move if anything you may call it scummy.

4) after wrath reaching L-1 his damned if he does damned if he don't post kinda sealed it for me. It diddn't appear that he was going to defend himself any longer so i figured i'd simply put him out of his misery.

[tubby216]

Whats VI?

VI= village idiot,

wich is used to denote a poorly playing town player.


but in this case soy just doesn't see that my hammer was a good idea

[tubby216]

Or he's just that stupid. Let's see who gets killed tonight first.

stop being so obtuse, you are not the brightest bulb in the pack.

[tubby216]

Hammering him so quickly just causes us unable to gather more information. Even if Wrath really is scum, he could've let slip some info in his desperation at L-1. Now that chance is gone. And if he's town, we could've managed to spend that little time before deadline to see that he really is town. Personally, I don't think he's scum (my vote's stuck on yernab for a reason), but we shall soon see.

you are all wasting twilight and exceelant chance to gain info

[tubby216]

Okay, Im definitely looking at bfl, first one to get to speculating on the doc is suspicious, not entirely unlike 'congratulating the doctor'

how/why is it suspicious? what other explanation is there? I guess it's possible the mafia chose to not kill, but that's not likely and doesn't make sense. If we had been past the 72 hour time-limit for night, I would have considered the possibility that the mafia didn't get their orders in.

Why not? It gets everyone thinking doctor, and then the doctor (if there is one) becomes tempted to claim with the information they think they gained. It's actually a more common tactic than one might think. (Also consider that it can make for a good fake claim by mafia later in the game should it become clear to them that there is no doctor.)

close ach, but what i believe ethreal and bfl are looking for is the cop claim.

see scum don't nite kill, leaves town thin doc suceeded , cop feel safe to claim knowing there is a doc to protect him, scum kill cop

however if we have one or both roles both should be quiet about who they are

[tubby216]

agrees with meji,

vote:bfl

[tubby216]

...
Well, you have tubby's support. . I really, really, want to lynch him bad, but meta tells me that he behaves this way regularly. Agrees with Meji, vote. Amazing. Just amazing.

are you shocked more about my play or that your partner is at l-2 and you don't wether to join us or try to get me lynched,,,,

[tubby216]

No, I'm shocked at the fact you're extremely unintelligent, and that's putting it nicely.

oh come on don't be bitter,, you know best laid plans and all

[tubby216]

tubby - what links do you have showing between bfl and cookie then?

for starters re-read page 10,

[tubby216]

no night kill, eh? looks like we have a doc, and they got lucky.

Okay, Im definitely looking at bfl, first one to get to speculating on the doc is suspicious, not entirely unlike 'congratulating the doctor'

how/why is it suspicious? what other explanation is there? I guess it's possible the mafia chose to not kill, but that's not likely and doesn't make sense. If we had been past the 72 hour time-limit for night, I would have considered the possibility that the mafia didn't get their orders in.

Why not? It gets everyone thinking doctor, and then the doctor (if there is one) becomes tempted to claim with the information they think they gained. It's actually a more common tactic than one might think. (Also consider that it can make for a good fake claim by mafia later in the game should it become clear to them that there is no doctor.)

how are people not already "thinking doctor" with no one dying during the night?

What's the common tactic? Not killing so it looks like there is a doc, so you can claim doc? That seems quite risky.

these three posts alone warrant a lynch, almost baiting any potential power roles to out themselves.

now lets have a look at cookie shall we?


buddying attempt #1

I found some meta on Tubby. It's normal for him to act like this, and everyone suspects him of scum but it turns out he isn't. That doesn't mean we dismiss him from being scum, but his behavior isn't as odd as it might seem. I more of see "Useless Townie" than "Scummy".

buddying attempt #2

I have meta on Tubby that shows he behaves like this as Town anyhow. I don't see why people are saying I have lots of information on him. I just quoted some stuff and wrote a one liner response. Manho is #2 most scummy for me. However, your posts just seemed scummy to me. I especially didn't like the first quote about "If I were mafia" comment catching attention. I also didn't understand why you announced you were trying to get a response out of Manho and then FoS'd him. If he knows your intent, and he's scum, it's not likely he's going to react heavily.

Well, I'd imagine scum would want to avoid doing something like this because it'd draw so much attention.

WIFOM

...
Well, you have tubby's support. . I really, really, want to lynch him bad, but meta tells me that he behaves this way regularly. Agrees with Meji, vote. Amazing. Just amazing.

setting up mislynch


scum responses

Well.
I was wrong about Wrath. I'm surprised, honestly.
First, we need to examine the bandwagon on Wrath. Look for those who have very little reasoning for their votes.

quote="EtherealCookie"]Why is it suspicious to assume first that we have a doctor? Nobody died tonight. It's not surprising someone might think there's a doctor.[/quote]
misleading town

you know what you talked me out of lynching your buddy

unvote vote: cookie

[tubby216]

See?
That shows absolutely nothing.
You just say reread page 10. That means nothing.
It's not helping town.

take a deep breathe, I said "for starters" wich is implied there is more to follow, now after calmly reading my post then you can frea out and flame the day away go ahead i won't be mad at you

[tubby216]

^i feel the urge to task you ,, you have no defense then other then to say i am a poor player with poor points? awesomeness pure awesomeness

[tubby216]

i would be satisfied with either lynch,

but for now i feel cookie is the biggest offender

[tubby216]

And he fails to even defend himself, and simply says we should lynch either me or BJL.

because i do not need to defend myself when there is scum about such as yourself

[tubby216]

yah i am pretty sure cookie is scum at this point, BJL is likely their partner.

I think it would be great to lynch cookie.

BJL is scummy but cookies defense of bjl is far more scummy than the actions of bjl on his own.

[tubby216]

@soyasushi: cookie knows bjl is town as he is sure that tubby and i am the two scums, just to let you know.

Just like how he is so sure bjl is town, how is he so sure you are the two scums? Unless he has some hidden psychic ability we know nothing about?

you should ask him again, but that's what i get.

@tubby, maybe we can lynch bjl today and cookie tomorrow.

mod: can we have a vote count please?

no i don't like this chaining lynches,,

i do feel its highly likely that thewy are the scum.

however what we need is a vote count and more from zach,meji,bjl/replacemnt and to a lesser extent soy

[tubby216]

You have anything specific you want to ask me then?

your thoughts on bjl/cookie being linked as scum pair

your thoughts on me and manho being scumpair

do you think either argument is valid


or do you think this is begininng to show town v town and too much eagerness to be right?

[tubby216]

^ same questions to zach too

[tubby216]

I PMed said listmod

Note: This is not the usual, this is the first Newbie game Ive been in where this has been a problem, please dont let this get in the way of enjoying mafiascum

i pm'd the list mod as well,

and this is rare but i have seen it before

[tubby216]

tubby, what normally happens if this happens?

usually there is a replacement mod, or Val will take over. we may have to pm the new mod our roles if our mod is replaced.

or we can all simply vote to abandon the game and those that wish will be moved to the front of the line in the newbie que.

but without verification from VAL is all speculation/ what happened last time

[tubby216]

Which means we're going to wait?

What a bother for a first game.

indeed,
agian this is rare to happen

[tubby216]

thanks vel

[tubby216]

well i doubt cookie will ever vote for bjl but in the case that cookie does i would gladly hammer and we can adress this cookie mess tomorrow

[tubby216]

I hate placing such an undue importance on Metas. It really is a useless tactic. Scum can play elements of their town meta, towns can play no meta at all, and scum can even play their town meta completely perfectly. You can't ignore the huge number of scummy posts made by Tubby just because "he plays like that". He's just as likely to be scum as he is town. I still have more to say about Yernab and bjl's behaviors, and cookie's twilight talk is hardly scummy at all (from first glance. I will have to look more into it, as said).

you replaced pianst right?

so this is you one and only warning tread lightly, because for now you are taking the easy road, I will allow you to do a read of day one and day2.

I know i posted little if anything but take a close look at what i said in my posts.

[tubby216]

sorry i missed the bit about scum v town request i will have it for you in a few hours i need sleep now.

[tubby216]

you replaced pianst right?

so this is you one and only warning tread lightly, because for now you are taking the easy road, I will allow you to do a read of day one and day2.

I know i posted little if anything but take a close look at what i said in my posts.

Elaborate? Appealing to fear is a scumtell btw.

no not an appeal to fear

but i was trying to say is look a little closer at may posts, what they say, the words used the timing. Because i feel you are focusing on an easy target, wich by the way is a scum tell.

[tubby216]

the only reasons why bjl and cookie are sure that there is a doctor is either 1. they are the doctor, or 2. they are the scum whose kill is blocked by the doctor. as there is at most one doctor in a newbie game, so 1 is wrong. point out the third option if you think it is a false dilemma.

Wow.
Please, read my posts.
Then point out where I said I am sure there is a doctor. I said why is it suspicious to assume there is a doctor. You are twisting my words a lot.
Also, your argument is terribly flawed.
As for 2, uhm, why the hell would we want to talk about the doctor if we are scum who got blocked by doctor's protection?
If you actually believe this is a scumslip, that's pretty sad. But you don't. You're just trying to get me lynched, given you're scum.

And where's Reason 3, being able to reason logically? No crap people would think the doctor was successful.

your questions back have already been explained

can we lynch cookie now please that'd be great

[tubby216]

and as promised a list of games i was in and my roles, these are the ones i can easily find, (*i really need to find someone to help me do a wiki*)


newbie 795= townie
newbie 799= townie
newbie 746= townie
newbie 763= scum role blocker
newbie 770= mafia goon
newbie 773= townie
newbie 743= townie

[tubby216]

no not an appeal to fear

but i was trying to say is look a little closer at may posts, what they say, the words used the timing. Because i feel you are focusing on an easy target, wich by the way is a scum tell.

You claim you are an easier target than Ojanen and Cookie, regardless of the fact that they have more votes, and are under far more suspicion? And you seem to be implying that your previous posts all have some sort of subliminal meaning behind them, yet you refuse to help people find that meaning. I asked for you to elaborate, not repeat yourself. With the way you're acting, I have to think you are withholding information... and your attitude has been nothing but anti-town so far. And let me remind you how easy it would be to lynch Bjl/Ojanen right now:

Between BJL and Cookie, I still find cookie to be a stronger lynch.

Under threat of deadline, I may be willing to switch though.

We are just under a week for that deadline.

if you can't see it i am not drawing you a map. perhaps if i survive today you will see tomorrow.

[tubby216]

wow just wow,

ok then lets lynch cookie please

[tubby216]

@ojanen,

i thought Bjl was scummy you however have posted very protown, However this doesnot excuse cookies defense of your player slot. wich i found to truly scummy wich is why i would like cookie lynched.

[tubby216]

God damn, Ojanen just said my defense is not scummy, and brought up points as to why it's not. You, on the other hand, come and say it's scummy, and bring up absolutely no points at all.

so?

my opinion is different that Ojanens big deal.

[tubby216]

No, that has nothing to do with it.
The fact is, he actually brings up points, you don't.

so?

[tubby216]

@tubby, please answer to me about this:
Earlier I wrote:
And for the people who are saying he is scum defending town tubby, what on earth would be the scum motive to defend my slot so forcefully? He has gotten sooo much heat just because of the defence that people actually want to lynch him instead of me, do you find that a good tell for scum who's basic nature is to hide?

The reasons why I think Ethereal's defence was not unreasonable at all as a thought process, are again:
-looking for scum from town lynch wagon is absolutely a good idea and noone turned to each other after the mislynch
-my wagon exploded right at the beginning of D2 which would suggest some scum influence
-he didn't actually agree with the scumtell everyone was finding so huge (doc thing)
-he himself also got immediately hounded

ok look i'll answer you points ten put a couple of my own.

your point 1

- I'll conceed your wagon did spark quickly and bjl flaked before we could ge a good response.

my point1

-cookie jumped in and defended far too early before a reaction from bjl could properly be gaged.

your point 2

- scum tells are left up to interpretation, there is no check list of scum tells that people can simply check off

my point2

he never actually said why it wasn't a scum tell and his defense was minor chainsaw by saying "well look at whos is on the wagon sheesh its alls scum"

your point 3

-so he should have been hounded and should continuely be hounded i don't believe his response are all that good either. although i am pretty sure he is convinced I am an idiot.

i see plenty of scum motivation to defend your slot so boldly. even at the time it looked as if you would be the certian lynch of the day.
even though cookie claimed townie i see that as a false claim and completely expect a different claim tomorrow and i will just leave it at that.

so i think that satisfies your points vs my points

[tubby216]

btw

i see plenty of scum motivation to defend your slot so boldly. even at the time it looked as if you would be the certian lynch of the day.

No it didn't, 'twas earlier.

even though cookie claimed townie i see that as a false claim and completely expect a different claim tomorrow and i will just leave it at that.

Claiming something else would be seen as claiming scum so that's just silly.

not what i was implying but i'll let it go

[tubby216]

hiya starbuck welcome

[tubby216]

oh wow and i thought i was pushing for a cookie wagon,, my mistake

[tubby216]

EBWOP: Sorry, that last post was really uninformative, so here goes.
What I think:
manho: Your doc claim came at a weird time, and the only explanation for it, is that you didn't think people could see your arguments as plausible without it. Why?

tubby: Your posting style leaves much to the imagination, and requires us to do the work. How is this not scummy behaviour?

i do not believe it is my job to spoon feed you guys everything. I like to alow you to figure it out for yourselfs it builds pride

[tubby216]

Cool. If you're not convinced I'm not scum, then shouldn't you be voting for me? Anyhow. As I said, it's obviously Tubby, I've brought up my case against him, and for some reason it's not clear.

Vote:Tubby216

and like all day long you would be wrong

[tubby216]

i may be an ass but i am not the correct lynch for today

[tubby216]

You might want to re-read that claim Starbuck.

indeed

[tubby216]

ok so I am your cop

bread crum #1

interesting

i'll have to look into that

ash.

but we need moar posts please

bread crum #2

Why yes, yes he did.

meh someone had to do it might as well be me,

i'll have some answers and cool stuff for you tomorrow

n1 i tried to invest crazypianist- but was role blocked no result
n2 i investigated Zach- result guilty

so

vote Zach

[tubby216]

with CP it was something they said at the end of the day,

and i diddn't like zach's play at all yesterday and the case brough agianst him to me at least warranted an investigation.

[tubby216]

ok paltry to answer your first question see crazy's iso post 6 and 7 then after that it was the way crazy reacted to my hammer in twilight that led me to investigate crrazy.

ok here is what i think out of process of elimination,

1 since manho was not counter claimed i believe him town.
2 if manho is town then paltry must be town since manho claims he protected soy/paltry
3 so that leaves kyiv and starbuck, i have a town read on kyiv currently,
4. that leaves starbuck, with starbucks quick vote seems too much like distancing and trying to cut off the town from learning more, so if i am not lynched thats who i will be investigating tomorrow.


I know my play sucks . I know i play like i am unhelpful town slash idiot.

so i think thats all my cards on the table

[tubby216]

Firstly, I'd like to apologize. I'm getting the feeling that I've offended you in some way when it wasn't my intention to at all.

Point #4: This could be me misunderstanding the mafia-scum lingo, but don't we lynch during the day? Or is it considered night lynch as well as night kill? If so, if we lynch you, and you're town, there is no tomorrow.

Also, I would like to say this: If tubby isn't scum, his claim clears manho. The only way manho can be scum in my eyes is if
a) No night kill
b) tubby is also scum seeing as he is claiming cop and roleblocked and there has been no counterclaim.
Am I missing something?

no no no you diddn't offend me i was trying to answer your questions,

and what i meant about point 4 is "if I am not lynched today, then tonite starbuck will be my investigation choice"

i am sorry if i was unclear.

[tubby216]

@kyiv,
did i answer you questions or do i need to explain further? Because i felt you questions overlapped with paltry so i wanted to make sure you knew i wasn't avioding you

[tubby216]

starbuck- do you have any thoughts currently?

Kyiv- do you have any further thoughts?

[tubby216]

No, Tubby; you still haven't explained what in particular about Zach's play led you to investigate him.

did not like this post

Yeah, I have a confession to make. I've been waivering on my scum read of Cookie. In a situation where scum needs any other lynch to survive, him changing his vote from me doesn't really make any sense as scum.

At the moment, the fact that Starbuck is not voting is sticking out like a sore thumb to me, so yeah, with the deadline fast approaching why haven't you found it important to fully catch up and take a firm stance?

Unvote: Vote: Starbuck

and his generall play i did not like. He just read funny in iso so i went back and read the day and figured it would make a good choice for investigating. Because either it would confirm him town or find scum wich it did.

Your sudden change of heart almost scares me

normally i save this explination for after the game ends but i'll do it here and now because its warranted. I generally play anti town or as unhelpful as possible when i am town, because it aides me in gauging everyones reactions to me. Plus it allows me to aviod being nightkilled due to the fact i make a better lynch than a nk canidate. Since I did not know wether or not there would be a doc in this game untill i was rb'd nite 1 i figured that same stratagey would serve me well here. Of course it did untill it comes to time like now when i claim. So i get where you guys extremely cautious in believing me at face value.

[tubby216]

yes i knew there was a cop cause i am the cop. it was more to the point i was trying to get the doc to stay quiet and not claim.

[tubby216]

i agree starbuck needs to start talkin

[tubby216]

ok so here is the deal. essentially we are in mylo wich means we lynch wrong and scum are sucessful on the kill town loses.

that leaves us with two options lynch Zach who is caught scum or no lynch,

now i have been trying to play calmly and hang back after my claim but seriously thats not who i am.

we need to lynch zach, then i will investigate starbuck, if starbuck is scum we win if not then it stands to reason that its kyiv. either way it gets us closer to winning. trying to out the zach partner takes us into a giant pool of WIFOM when zach is still alive.

[tubby216]

That's the great thing about a cop claim isn't it? You don't really need to reason it or make a case, all you need to argue is that you have a guilty.

but i did reason it ironic huh?

[tubby216]

yes i did explain it.

reason not to lynch me because i am right

[tubby216]

heres how i see your veiws zach,



it doesn't matter cause your caught scum.

[tubby216]

And Starbuck: I wish you and your family all the best!

i second this

[tubby216]

The question would be how would you expect Tubby to play as scum in general.

I'll look into that part myself, but I suspect that he plays pretty much the same way he claims to play as town.

Which would mean his explanation means nothing.

your just pissed i caught you ,, its ok i understand

[tubby216]

ok fair enough.

[tubby216]

tubby216

i may be an ass but i am not the correct lynch for today

What were you trying to accomplish with this post? Upon seeing it D2, it convinced me of nothing except that your guilt was more probable.
Secondly, your promise of investigating Starbuck is understandable, however if Zach is not the RB then it is all for nothing.

the quote, i wanted people to really look at what i was saying and not at my play style.

no it won't be all for nothing cause atleast we lynched scum. then we get an extra day.
if i get rb'd then either you or kyiv or starbuck gets killed. cause if they kill manho you are confirmed when he flips doc. once zach is lynched and flipps scum i am confirmed so that leaves us at very least 2 confirmed townies goin into tomorrow.


see i thought about the no lynch as well, but in the no lynch senerio, i get rb'd agian (so no info gained)

and paltry gets killed, then its me, manho on one side and zach and his partner on the other with the townie in the middle

or kyiv or starbuck gets killed and its paltry in the middle agian either way there is no info gained.

and its definate lylo

[tubby216]

mod i need replaced puter issues

[tubby216]

hi all

first my appologies for having to be replaced. I had severe computer issues and replaced out of the majority of games i was in.

This was my first time ever having a pro town power role and cop at that.

I was surprised that zach had me pegged.

I was also glad Mr Finch diddn't have tomany issues after he replaced me.

when i got the guilty on zach i was i knew we had this in the bag after manho claimed and lived cause either way it went down we would have two cleared townies in end game. I prolly shouldn't have annouced that i would be investigating starbuck next. but i figured if i did it would force star buck to role block me and not kill.

but well played by all i am just sorry we all had issues out side the game that hurt the game.

[tubby216]

oh and another question had your actions been different if i had not announced i was going to investigate you?

[tubby216]

just read the scum qt. Zach stay out of my head!!!!! lol you had me dead to rights and was thinkin exactly what i was thinkin the whole time. You are either lucky or just that good. I hope you and i don't end up on oposing sides agian. good job