Mini 862 ~ Mafia of Order (Game Over!)

[Goatrevolt]

I'm going to start by saying that I've been pretty sick, and probably will be posting sporadically for the duration of my already-too-long illness.

21.) You may make a string of consecutive posts if you like (i.e. EBWOPs); the successive posts will not count toward your post cap unless the total words in all of that consecutive string of posts exceeds 450. For instance, if over four consecutive posts you use 451 words, I will count that as two posts.

If you post twice for 300 words, then someone else posts, and then you post twice again for 151 words, you will have used three posts.

Mod: Clarification. When you say post twice for 300 do you mean each post is 300 or combined = 300? I read it as they combine for 300, and in that case it looks like the end result should be two posts used not 3.

-----------

I'm in favor of mass post # claims. The arguments against are that scum can lie. Um...it's easier for scum to lie later in the game with more information. So...voila. It's not like this hurts the town in any way shape or form. And I firmly believe it will help us. So, chalk me down as in favor of said claimage. Preview Edit: Sens makes a solid point, but if the scum are seriously going to make kills based on post counts alone, then don't we just win? Minor point against at best.

No one is going to run out on day 1 cobalt. You're eagerness to hear numbers is scummy. I knew i should have trusted my gut.

Unvote, Revote:Cobalt

Mmm...One issue here Vice President Baltar. How can you trust your gut on Cobalt when your original vote was first post and a seemingly random vote. Pre-game gut???

Vote: VP Baltar

for reasons Locke Lamora stated.

Also wagoning.

Is wagoning a bad thing? How should we feel about you putting the bajilionth vote on VP Baltar if you don't like wagoning?

-----

Mixed reads on Baltar for me so far. His play is ringing a bit fake, maybe too overeager, I really don't like the bit I pointed out above, but I also am not a big fan of the quick wagon that sprung up and some of the reasons for being on board. KMD, you've used the same number of posts as Baltar, and certainly his have been more informative than yours, no? Bad wagon vote?

I'm going to claim right now that my role PM informs me that there are 3 players in this game with fake claims. Based on my win-con being winning when the

Mafia

are dead, I'm going to hypothesize that we are dealing with 3 mafia, each of which have mod provided fake claims. Behavioral analysis is going to win the day.

Vote KMD

[Goatrevolt]

I was being upfront about my own wagoning, not accusing him of it. I'm saying that I dont care I'm wagoning this early. Pretty scummy abstraction.

How is it scummy for me to misread something that wasn't very clear and I argue more likely to be taken the way I interpreted it over the way you meant it (especially considering Cobalt jumped on the same thing)? You'll have to be pretty slick to convince me of this one.

Cobalt has struck me as fairly pro-town thus far. I can see a pro-town role having a fake claim for a few reasons. How about we push Cobalt if we think he's scum for behavioral reasons, not page 2 gaming the mod? Cobalt making this claim means he is going to need to have two pro-town role claims. He's tied himself up pretty neatly if he's scum, and thus I find it less likely he is.

KMD: Even if you have infinite posts, I want you to convince me that VP was wasting posts and thus more likely to be scum.

[Goatrevolt]

How can you trust your gut on Cobalt when your original vote was first post and a seemingly random vote. Pre-game gut???

I wasn't voting him based on gut. Your question doesn't make any sense.

Ummmm....Then maybe you should take a bit of time to explain what you could have possibly meant with this:

You're eagerness to hear numbers is scummy. I knew i should have trusted my gut.

Unvote, Revote:Cobalt

I'd love to hear your explanation for the use of gut in that situation, if your vote apparently had nothing to do with gut?

Nor does vagueries such as this:

His play is ringing a bit fake, maybe too overeager

What is "overeager" about my play?

I would say you jumping on Cobalt for something that is hardly close to a scumtell and saying you "should have trusted your gut" when it's like 3 posts into the game qualifies as a bit "overeager". I have no problems with jumping on minor things early game to get things rolling, but your play strikes me as you trying to overplay the gravity of Cobalt's actions and make it appear far worse than it was in actuality.

[Goatrevolt]

Just in case you missed that part up above, VP wants to lynch me for having a falseclaim ability and said "he didn't say he was town, just that he wasn't mafia". Town win condition only requires the mafia to die, ergo VP is not town.

Fallacy alert!

Cobalt's Premise: All townies

only

want to lynch mafia.
Cobalt's Conclusion: VP is not town because VP believes Cobalt is a third party.
Problem: There are other possible win conditions that could be detrimental to the town. This argument is given further credence by Sens semi-claim of multiple wincons.

It's really not a fallacy at all. Do you have the town win condition?

I really hate the wagon on Cobalt. I can't point to a single vote on him and say "that's a good vote." Sens is probably the only one on the wagon who actually strikes me as town, and it's completely unrelated to his vote.

Voting him because of gaming the mod is dumb. I can think of two quick and easy town fake claims and why they would be beneficial off the top of my head. I fully expect this game to be "gaming the mod proof" based on what I have seen of Vi in mafia discussion. Behavioral. Analysis. He has claimed that he has a fake claim and is town. Again, this is a bold and probably dumb move as scum, because it requires him to have 2 town role claims.

The reason for the recent votes are bad, and suggest that people either don't understand the town win condition or don't have the town win condition.

[Goatrevolt]

EBWODP: Just saw the last 4 posts or so. Sens, how could he be selling BS when he's selling the town win con? Please explain.

[Goatrevolt]

EBWODP: Just saw the last 4 posts or so. Sens, how could he be selling BS when he's selling the town win con? Please explain.

He's not selling the Town wincon.
He admitted to having a fakeclaim, and not having the Town wincon.

He is selling the town win condition. The town win condition is to get rid of the mafia. That says absolutely nothing about any possible 3rd parties. Unless there is a 3rd party who makes hunting and eliminating mafia difficult I see no reason to waste our time with them. Based on your claim, I'm guessing we're looking at a 3rd party with some sort of alternate-win con that is not exclusive with the town or scum win con, otherwise the town would need them dead to win.

Admitting to having a fakeclaim. Yes. You don't see any way how a townie could possibly have a fake claim?

That, and his fucking softclaims. People need to be taught they can't get away with that shit.

Personally, I don't see why this is a big deal on a theoretical standpoint. I see town soft-claim just as much as scum. The only times I can remember me soft-claiming I've been town every time. If you are convinced the player is scum, force them to full claim. If you're wishy-washy, then the soft claim might be enough to lead you elsewhere. I don't get why this is such an issue.

I don't know anything about the flavor behind this game. No clue who Micaiah is or if that should mean anything. I'm guessing it does, though, based on how Cobalt is toting it around.

[Goatrevolt]

You claimed to have a different wincon than VP Baltar, and the context implied that you were referring to not having the Town wincon.

No...*facepalm*...

Sens, read that interaction again. Read the town win condition, then look at what both players said...

[Goatrevolt]

Sens...seriously, you are not reading this with any level of clarity.

He did not claim 3rd party win con. He attacked VP Baltar because VP Baltar wanted to lynch him because Baltar thought he was 3rd party despite that

not being relevant to the town win condition

.

Sens: There is no reason the town needs to lynch a 3rd party even if they claimed now, because it is unnecessary for us to win. For going back and reading this with hindsight, you clearly keep forgetting to read the actual TOWN WIN CONDITION.

People, this is not difficult.

Town win condition: get rid of

MAFIA

.

Are mafia 3rd party? No. No they are not. Should we be hunting 3rd party? No, no we shouldn't. Even if we should be hunting 3rd party, did Cobalt imply that he was 3rd party? No, no he did not. This is not graduate physics...

[Goatrevolt]

EBWODP:

A suggestion: If you find yourself running out of posts for any reason at any point in the game, you should claim your role in your last remaining post or be policy lynched. Sound fair? Maybe 3 posts from the end or something so there is time to discuss.

Nobody should "run out of posts accidentally" and go unclaimed and force the town to make an uneducated decision on them.

[Goatrevolt]

If the 3rd party win condition is another mafia, then they wouldn't be 3rd party. If the 3rd party is mutually exclusive with the town, then the town win condition would point out that they need to be dead to win otherwise it wouldn't be a balanced game.

Those explanations don't make sense.

I would prefer that Cobalt does not claim. Not one of the players on his wagon has presented a single valid reason to vote him or why he should claim. It is instead entirely fueled by illogical reasons, plain dumb reasons, or people who seem to still be unable to read or process the text of the town win condition.

Worst wagon I've seen in a long time.

[Goatrevolt]

He attacked VP Baltar because VP Baltar wanted to lynch him because Baltar thought he was 3rd party despite that not being relevant to the town win condition.

I did? please quote. What actually happened is that you and cobalt took all kinds of inferences from one line where I said if Sens is telling the truth, Cobalt should probably be lynched and then extrapolated them into a grand theory about how I'm psychotically trying to get cobalt lynched. Your ridiculously over the top defense of Cobalt is starting to grate on me though.

Good. I would prefer to not have to be "ridiculously" over the top, but I'm not going to stand for someone I believe to be town getting lynched for frivolous reasons. If that is a problem to you, please let me know why it is problematic, and maybe we can seek to resolve it. Thanks.

Sens makes valid points about a Lyncher. Cobalt attempts to deflect these with outguess the mod "what if the lynchee is mafia". I'm sure Goat thinks this is a good argument.

Cut the Ad homs right now. I really don't have the patience to deal with you harassing everything I say with misreps or trying to pigeonhole me into stances or other crap like that. If you have a problem with any of my stances, feel free to step up and say so, but stop taking pot-shots at me from the sidelines.

It's a bad argument, but the original argument is just as bad. Really, a lyncher? If your theory has to resort to making up potential 3rd party roles to keep the pressure on then maybe it's time you dropped it, am I wrong? How about we don't worry about any 3rd party roles unless we actually have reason to.

This game is turning into a bad theory discussion. Here is a simple point.

We don't know what the 3rd party is, so we should probably stop worrying about it until we do

. We're doing what's equivalent to "hunting for the SK" before we even know there is a SK in the game.

Let's stick to the mafia. It's what we need to do to win.

IF

we encounter a 3rd party along the way that is detrimental to our win condition, then we can deal with it. All this baseless speculation is nuts, and unhelpful.

I'm keeping my vote on KMD.

[Goatrevolt]

I'm in the same boat as Juls. I'm fairly neutral toward Baltar overall, but definitely skeptical of the wagon on him.

Him pushing Cobalt for being 3rd party isn't really a scum tell. If it was, then Sens should probably be lynched ASAP. I think Cobalt's reaction to that mess was a town tell, and ultimately that is what I was trying to push out of that whole deal, not that VP is scum or his actions mean as such.

I think ACSN is somewhat scummy. I really want to see what KMD has to say about all of this, as he has essentially disappeared the last few days.

VP: I call them ad homs because you were essentially attacking me personally by virtue of saying "here is a bad argument: I bet Goatrevolt will like this argument." It was an unnecessary jab at my intelligence or what have you (this is ignoring the fact that I'm right, and 3rd party should be the least of our concerns right now, of course ). At any rate, I agree, let's move on.

[Goatrevolt]

ACSN: If you don't want to play this game, then you are free to replace, hopefully with someone interested in providing value to their posts. If you select to remain in the game, I hope that you would choose to tackle these so called problems you see, instead of just whining about them and doing nothing. I look forward to it.

Also, for someone who started with 50 posts, is there any reason you are wasting them on:

that was me obviously forgetting about my restriction

obviously

?

If anything is

obvious scum behavior

it would be complaining about the town and how bad they are but doing absolutely nothing about it. Am I wrong?

[Goatrevolt]

sorry

cant be arsed to explain myself to stupid people, gets tedious

Then I guess us stupid people will just have to be "arsed" into voting for you, right?

Get off your high-horse. Until you demonstrate your ability to say anything of value whatsoever, you are the dumbest player in this game, despite the air of superiority you are trying to project. The way you like to waste your limited posts with < 150 word posts consisting entirely of "wow people are stupid, but I'll just comment on it and do nothing of use" sounds like a pretty stupid waste of a superior mind like yours.

i will interject every now and again when I can, try to point the town in the right direction, restriction permitting (44-45 or so posts left I think?) lol@"hurrr explain yourself, wait dont, you'll waste posts"

Wow, fancy that, a nice misrep! Explaining yourself is hardly wasting posts. Using one of your posts to point out the fact that you have limited posts is a complete and utter waste of a post.

cobalt needs to be lynched. there is no excuse. baltar rolling in at a close second

Speaking of wasting a post. You wasted this entire post talking about how you have a limited number of posts and how you will use them to point the town in the right direction, and then you provide absolutely nothing of value.

Why does Cobalt need to be lynched? Why is Baltar rolling in at a close second?

And last of all: How do you expect scum with limited number of posts to play? Do you think they would maybe try to throw away a post or two every now and then (51, 54, 108)? Maybe they suggest that they are only going to post sparingly because they have limited posts, but then when they do post it's lacking meaningful content? Maybe they will try to point the town in the "right direction" but do so without any rationale or oomph backing their stances, so as to effectively do nothing and go along for the ride? I think that sounds about right. What do you think?

Unvote, Vote a cold starry night

[Goatrevolt]

Cobalt/DDD/Fuzzy are scum. Consider this game broken by me. Let's lynch Cobalt first.

I must have skimmed over the fullclaim. Could you quote it please?

You must think quite highly of your skills if you can "break" a game you haven't even bothered to read. Tsk, tsk, KMD...

Can we hear the reasons why those 3 are scum?

[Goatrevolt]

I've never played with DTMaster before, but he strikes me as the kind of player who probably plays this same analytical game as either alignment. There is one thing I'm curious about, though.

DT, what do you expect to gain by testing Cobalts role? Do you think having the role confirms him as town? If the answer to that question is no, then there is no inherent value in testing him, if the test yields no useful results. If the answer is yes, then can you explain what about the role confirms him?

Sens: From my experience, people who think their role is going to clear them (especially for reasons like "I'm the protagonist in X") are usually town. I continue to fail to understand the reason people think this is some giant scum tell. At best, null tell.

I think Juls is town.

[Goatrevolt]

Hey, you saw me replace into a game, vote scum, track a cult recruit, but lose the result due to being NK'd N1 in a game I hadn't even caught up on yet. My gut is very impressive.

To be fair, you directly asked me "who is scum?" I told you, then you voted that person, who was scum.

I've given reasons on Cobalt. DDD is meta/gut/connection-to-Cobalt. Fuzzy is gut.

I'll have to look back at these Cobalt reasons, because I don't remember them.

VP Baltar (L-3) ~ Debonair Danny DiPietro, Locke Lamora, Sotty7, Cobalt

^Someone other than Cobalt on this wagon is scum.

Cobalt is very unlikely to be scum. If he's scum, he's also extremely stupid, and generally when you have to make assumptions like that in order to keep your scum-read, it means you're wrong. If he is scum, I will be surprised.

I could see any of the other 3 on that wagon being scum, though. Locke, especially, who seems to be playing no different than the abandoned game I saw him in where he was scum. I don't have much of a read on DDD or Sotty, but neither have struck me as pro-town this game.

[Goatrevolt]

If Cobalt is scum he's freaking stupid. This means he admitted to having a false-claim as scum, then spills us the scum win condition for "confirmation" and he was eager to claim early day 1 (what scum are eager to claim early day 1???). It's much simpler and easier to assume that he's town. This isn't even considering the fact that I think his claim to be the protagonist and the manner in which he claimed to be obvious town indicators. Obvious.

Let me debunk some common misconceptions:

1. Thinking your claim saves you means you're scum: Bullshit. Town do this far more than scum, who don't expect their claims to save them. I'm flabbergasted this is even a point, let alone one of the main pushes behind the wagon. Relying on your claim as the protagonist to save you is a

classic

town tell. I'm simply amazed this is being toted as a scum-tell.

2. Claims to have acted scummy on purpose. This is just dumb, as either alignment, really. I would say this is the one legit point of the wagon, but it's hardly a selling point, as there is such little motivation to make a play like this as either alignment.

3. Very quick claim. Honestly, this fits perfectly with the mentality of someone who has the ultimate "pro-town" nameclaim. People get eager to claim when their claim will save them. Not a scum tell at all.

4. "When I flip town..." Umm... Sens, that is terrible. That's the kind of thing townies say All. The. Time.

5. "Massive OMGUS." It's not OMGUS if he has reasons behind it, nor is OMGUS a scum tell anyway. OMGUS hits scum about 13.2% of the time. It's seriously a terrible scum-tell (terrible because it

isn't

a scum tell), and I'm surprised it's even being used.

6. Joined 3-ish months ago. His play this game doesn't suggest that he's a noob. I don't see a noob using someone not understanding the town win condition as a point of attack. Are you seriously looking at join date alone as a gauge? I convincingly won both of my first two games on this site, despite joining both with a join date of 2 weeks prior. I had played a bunch off-site prior to joining and was not a noob.

-----

There are so many better wagons that can be had right now.

KMD: Do you think ACSN is town or scum and why?

I am not going to wagon DDD before deadline, and also I will be gone that entire Saturday with a friend, so Friday night is the last I will post before deadline.

[Goatrevolt]

Saberwolf, do you have anything to say about the wagon on your predecessor?

[Goatrevolt]

But not if he's town? Seriously, I don't see how anyone with any kind of experience on MS can think he is making good arguments.

Some of his argument are bad. Some make sense. The idea that the town win-condition says we only need to kill mafia, thus we should focus on hunting for mafia is 100% correct logic, and the mass of arguments otherwise are plain stupid.

Bad logic =/= scum. If that were true, we might as well just go do logic puzzles to determine which faction wins this game.

Do you plan on staying with saberwolf then? We definitely need to work out what our plans are ahead of time. Really we should already be having the intended lynchee claiming in my opinion.

I agree with this. I'm fine with sticking on Saberwolf, although Saberwolf is appearing a lot more pro-town than ACSN was. I also am in favor of lynching Locke Lamora. I will also be willing to vote DDD as a deadline lynch choice, contrary to what I said before. After looking through his posts, I can definitely see him being scum.

[Goatrevolt]

DDD: I'm very curious why VP went from Scum not playing like the Obv-town you know to highly probable town. What caused this swap?

[Goatrevolt]

DDD: I'm very curious why VP went from Scum not playing like the Obv-town you know to highly probable town. What caused this swap?

I didn't/wouldn't expect scum-VPB to scum out swinging at me as much as he did which concerned me. And then my trend analysis (which I didn't feel comfortbale running till page 7) showed him as highly probable town with ACSN/Saber showing as far more probable scum.

Trend Analysis? I haven't seen you do anything of the sort. You've merely labeled some people as scummy and others as town with no rationale. If that is a trend analysis, then I am pretty good at doing them myself.

Why does your trend analysis show people as town and others as scum? Why weren't you comfortable "running" it until page 7? Why wouldn't VP-scum swing at you as much as he has done?

Every person that is on my BW.

Without refering to ACSN at all, please tell me why I am scummy, as well as scummier than the rest of the people here.

Without refering to ACSN? Umm... you don't get a clean slate as a replacement. Whatever alignment ACSN was, you are as well, so if my read on ACSN is scum, that carries over to you.

"Without reading any of my posts that could be construed as scummy, please tell me why I'm scummy." That's basically the equivalent of what you're suggesting.

Anyway,

Unvote, Vote DDD

I'm not really liking his play recently, especially the fairly reasonless swap on Baltar and the "trend analysis" which I would love to see backed up.

The ACSN wagon is less appealing to me right now, with how DDD and Locke jumped aboard and how KMD seems loath to wagon DDD, despite DDD being one of his "gut call 3 scum".

KMD: Fantasy Mafia, day 1. You jumped on Shadow Knight, who had only 1 vote on him at the time with 9 hours before deadline. I hardly believe that you truly buy this "We don't have enough time to wagon elsewhere" argument you are spouting off here.

[Goatrevolt]

Well it's certainly not the behavior I would take as scum and I generally think VPB and I think along the same lines. I wouldn't have considered myself a big threat as someone without a lot of posts who wasn't pushing hard and was already getting grief from other players. Hence there's not as much scum need to try and build a wagon when he could've dismissed or ignored and continued to attack Cobalt and/or ACSN/Saber.

You're voting ACSN/Saber, presumably based on your opinion that he's scum. I don't understand why VP moving away from Saberwolf to you makes him more likely town. If Saber is scum, then VP as scum would benefit from building a competing wagon instead of letting his scum buddy roast. The idea that VP as scum could have just sat on Saber also revolves around the idea that Saber is town, but yet you think Saber is scum. How does this make sense?

[Goatrevolt]

No it would've made more sense to once again come back to the Cobalt wagon he was on earlier in the day anyways, unless of course you're implying that the scum team is VPB/Cobalt/ACSN which would be simultaneously hilarious and awesome and stupidly unlikely.

After he called Cobalt a VI? How would he justify his spot back on that wagon?

I don't think Cobalt/VP/ACSN are the scum team. I also don't think your radical swap on VP from scum to town is genuine.

[Goatrevolt]

I got an extra 7 posts as well. I would love to hear from Cobalt and see what he has to say about all this.

[Goatrevolt]

Vote Locke Lamora

[Goatrevolt]

I'm voting Locke mostly because his play in this game has been fairly low key and reminds me of how he played the last time I saw him as scum.

Juls was a Guardian. I have no clue what that is, but I would guess it's some sort of a bodyguard or doc type role. My initial assumption was bodyguard when I saw it, which could explain her death, but it really could be any kind of protective role.

I'm curious why Saber is voting Locke, though. What bumped him beyond Sens in terms of scumminess?

[Goatrevolt]

I think Cobalt and Saber are town.

I'm not positive on VP or Sens, but I'm leaning town on both.

Sotty, DTMaster and KMD I could see go either way.

Fuzzy and Locke are the two scummiest players. Locke has gone back to lurking after people shifted their attention elsewhere, and fuzzy really hasn't done anything townish this entire game, and has been pretty much out of sight out of mind.

I'm still in favor of lynching Locke.

I would like to reread this game and get some fresh insight, but it's probably not going to happen before deadline.

[Goatrevolt]

Why did you vote him in the first place, then?

[Goatrevolt]

What about his wagon was better than the wagon on Locke Lamora, who you suggested we should have lynched yesterday over DDD?

[Goatrevolt]

So let me get this straight. You think KMD is town but yet you jumped on his wagon in hopes of "luring scum on" and even went so far as to say:

I'd prefer kmd but I am willing to vote DTM for a lynch.

and then just decided to jump off when questioned as to why you're voting KMD?

Why do you think you voting KMD would get scum to jump on the wagon? If KMD is town and you're voting him, then they wouldn't really need to get on the wagon as you're pushing it above the threshhold of any other wagon, am I right? If you think KMD is town, why wouldn't you simply just wait and see who jumps on and then attack them for it? Why do you think KMD is town?

This all feels pretty fishy.

[Goatrevolt]

When you say you voted KMD because it was gaining momentum and you wanted to make it easier and more obvious for

scum

to jump on, it assumes that KMD is town. If you thought KMD was scum you would have stuck on his wagon, not jumped off at the first sign of confrontation and you wouldn't have said, "I did it just to see who else jumped on". Trying to bait people into joining a wagon just so you can catch who does it only works when the person being wagoned is town.

If you don't think he's town, then why couldn't you provide any reason for being on his wagon except for "I like wagoning" and "I did it to see who jumped on but nobody did"?

There are basically two reasons you could have wanted to make scum jump on the KMD wagon.

1. You think he's scum, and you want to make it more appealing for scum to bus him. This obviously isn't the case, because you jumped off his wagon as quick as you could.
2. You think he's town, and you want to see who tries to go for the easy lynch. You basically said yourself that this wasn't true and you don't think he's town.

So...care to explain?

[Goatrevolt]

I'm not enthralled with a DTMaster lynch. Can we please lynch Locke Lamora?

[Goatrevolt]

I'm not sold on Locke's claim being pro-town. At any rate, I'm fine with giving him an extra night to get some more info.

I don't want people to direct any investigation. LL, you carry it out and then tomorrow ask whoever you investigated to claim whatever you checked out. They will have to tell the truth or be strung up. In the meantime, someone hammer.

This is a bad idea. Having Locke directly ask someone to claim something is a pretty obvious indication that they need to claim the truth. There's no possibility to trap anyone in a lie by playing it like this.

I'm not going to specifically direct your investigation, Locke, but I will make a suggestion. A couple of people have claimed role names. They are stuck with that claim, whether it is true or false.

I'm considering whether to just lynch Cobalt or try to push Fuzzy. I don't particularly think Cobalt is scum, but I don't want to force Fuzzy to claim unless there is enough pressure to create a lynch.

[Goatrevolt]

Alright, I'm leaving now and won't be back until after deadline.

Unvote, Vote Fuzzy

I'd rather push here than lynch Cobalt. Whether or not there is enough pressure to force Fuzzy to claim/lynch will be up to the rest of the game, but my vote is on board.

[Goatrevolt]

Vote SensFan

[Goatrevolt]

I'm going to visit a few friends of mine this weekend, so I probably won't post again until Sunday night or Monday.

I want to do a full reread of the game myself. I wanted to do it before the lynch yesterday, but simply didn't have the time.

I'm thinking Sens is scum because he has contributed basically 0 to this game other than planting his vote on Cobalt, but doing nothing to actively try to get Cobalt lynched. He was also completely inactive here at deadline yesterday despite (to my knowledge) being active on the site.

I really should have opposed the deadline Cobalt lynch. I was fairly certain he was town based on the way he played this game and the fact that he claimed to be roleblocked (when as scum, the safer and smarter play would to be simply to use your ability to "prove" it). I got too caught up in his actions regarding the KMD wagon making about a grand total of 0% sense.

I'm sorely lacking in town reads right now. Saberwolf I believe is town, and I'm not interested in lynching VP Baltar today, even though I'm not sold on him as town. Beyond that I don't have anything solid. DT/Fuzzy/Locke I can really see going either way.

I'm fine with massclaim. If there are 3 allied scum in this game, we're facing down Lylo anyway.

[Goatrevolt]

Both Juls and Sotty thought DTMaster was scum. Both are now dead via NK. I find this to be pretty meaningful, especially because neither were strongly considered pro-town by anyone and weren't "obvious" kill choices. Both considered VP neutral (or maybe menstrual, hard to tell sometimes) and Sotty thought Fuzzy was scum as well. I think this is a strong point against the master of all things DT.

Considering I've been in pretty much everyone's town pile this game and have been pretty active, I have to assume that I haven't been a NK option because I've been wrong. I pushed for LL over DT yesterday, and have had Sens in my townish pile most of the game.

Unvote

I'd rather not keep an active vote on right now, considering this probably is Lylo. I'm betting the scum are DTMaster + SensFan and then one of Fuzzy/Locke/KMD/Baltar.

I can't shake a nagging suspicion that Baltar is scum, despite not really having anything to pin on him. I'm pretty much resigning this to a "let's catch the other scum first and then compare his interactions."

[Goatrevolt]

If you have a nagging suspicion that I'm scum, why would my opposition to DT's wagon cause you to drop it?

[Goatrevolt]

I mentioned that I was going to be gone for the weekend, so not exactly sure why I was prodded, but it doesn't really matter. My laptop power adapter took the liberty of dying over that period. I've ordered one that should hopefully be here tomorrow, worst case Wednesday, but I have limited access until that point.

I've skimmed up to this point, and I still think Sens or DT are the best available lynches today.

KMD: You say my Fuzzy vote is a deadline vote (null), but then later list it as a "good" vote in your rationale to label me town. Explanation?

[Goatrevolt]

Goat, I would also appreciate if you'd help me find scum here. I am almost certain you are town now and feel I can trust you. Clearly we are not going to get action from others, so lets do the heavy lifting and get this right.

Yeah, I know. I've been phoning in the effort in this game. I have a half day of work tomorrow (still no power adapter, so my computer access involves using other people's computers...) and should have some time to get in a good read and a good vote. I'm getting owned by the brutally fast deadlines.

[Goatrevolt]

I am here. I'm starting to read up on what I've missed. I still don't have consistent computer access, which is annoying, and I'm looking to take a break from mafia anyway, which is lowering my drive to find computer access.

[Goatrevolt]

Damnit, I just set aside 2 hours to read the game too. I played pretty terribly. I should have stuck harder with my gut on Locke Lamora. The day 2 lynch was sad. We had scum DT getting wagoned, then I tried to derail that wagon onto another scum, LL, and we ended up having two townies wagoned at the end...FL and Cobalt.

I think you made the right choice as well, DDD. The town knowing there is a traitor doesn't help us at all, really, but it definitely helps out the mafia team by letting them read through the thread and figure out who it is.

[Goatrevolt]

Turns out fingering two of the three scum gets you killed. I just wish someone had thought to go back and figure out WHY I was the choice to get killed.

To be fair, I did do this, and I wanted to lynch DTM as a result of it. Then I went to visit a friend over a weekend, came back to find my computer had died, and basically didn't make another relevant post for the rest of the game... Standard stuff, really.

But hey, my computer is up and running again. Rematch anyone? Same teams?