Mini 197- Points Mafia; Game over!

[MeMe]

vote: Nai

[MeMe]

unvote: Nai
vote: mlaker

[MeMe]

FOS: Thesp
FOS: TradaPIB

[MeMe]

[MeMe]

[MeMe]

FOS: Leonidas

[MeMe]

[MeMe]

[MeMe]

[MeMe]

unvote: mlaker
vote: Nai

[MeMe]

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[MeMe]

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unvote: Nai
vote: Yggdrasil

[MeMe]

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[MeMe]

[MeMe]

unvote: Yggdrasil
vote: mlaker

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[MeMe]

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[MeMe]

[MeMe]

vote: TradaPIB

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[MeMe]

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FOS: Nai

[MeMe]

Why would an SK kill Nai? I think it

much

more likely that it was the work of a vigilante.

I also think the initial game post's use of "mafia" exclusively rather than "anti-town" and the fact that this is the first time we've had two kills overnight backs up the theory that there's no SK here -- but I think it's *quite* possible we've got three mafia left.

Maybe, instead of a mass claim, we can simply claim how many points we started with and how many we have left? Might be a good way to start this...

Boy, it feels good to type with letters!

[MeMe]

Very interesting...You spend a paragraph talking about why you believe me to be mafia and then end your post with "I'm 85% sure Phoebus is mafia" and vote him.

Couple of questions:

1)

Why

do you think Phoebus is mafia?
2)

Why

do you think my points claiming idea is a bad one?
3)

Why

do you think "swaying" people to mlaker was a bad idea? He sure looked scummy to me and, apparently, to several others (including you, as you ended day one with your vote on him).
4)

Why

have you abandoned your "mass claim time" idea in favor of a vote with very little discussion -- before half the town has even posted this day?

[MeMe]

Nice answers.

I do have replies to a couple of things though:

4) Why have you abandoned your "mass claim time" idea in favor of a vote with very little discussion -- before half the town has even posted this day?

Actually, half the town has posted, aside from myself, this is misrepresentation.

No, this is a misunderstanding of my meaning, though I get how it could be read either way. What I meant was that three players (about half of who's left) have yet to post, so you're abandoning your initial idea before half (the second half, that is) have gotten here. And despite the misunderstanding, you still didn't answer the meat of the question -- which is "why vote so fast when you seemed to prefer claiming earlier?"

It also appears that Yggdrasil is inclined to use mass claim as a last resort to today, MeMe believes a different method of claiming is preferable

I believe that if we can come up with a way to keep town abilities hidden while catching out scum, that's

certainly

preferable, yeah.

It makes sense to me to think that scum may be able to purchase an unstoppable kill. It also makes sense to me that scum would want to hide that under the guise of "just claiming points".

In light of SpeedyKQ's death scene, I think this is a good theory...but if the scum do have things they can buy, I'd hope they're limited to "one of each" like we are (making others who've invested in "unkillable at night" safe).

[MeMe]

We're just short two players, if I'm not mistaken, CoolBot and Stewie.

Gah. You're right. I still had TradaPIB as "yet to post" in my spreadsheet. My point still holds, just change it to "one-third" rather than "half." Well, I guess the fact that we have six players left rather than the seven I had listed makes my theory that there could still be three mafia rather unlikely unless one of them's taken a disability that makes winning outright today less than sure.

What do you think of my thoughts on Phoebus?

I think there's something there (which I thought was clear from my "nice answers" earlier), but there's no way I think

anyone

should be voted (unless by a cop with a guilty investigation...though your "85%" tells me this isn't the case) when we could be in endgame and before everyone's checked in. Fast days don't help town. Ever.

Why is the points-claiming theory at all useful? That's what I don't get. I'd much rather no-claim than merely points-claim.

How could it

hurt

? If we don't get enough information from it then we could move on to a fuller claim. What about my suggestion worries you?

In light of SpeedyKQ's death scene, I think this is a good theory...but if the scum do have things they can buy, I'd hope they're limited to "one of each" like we are (making others who've invested in "unkillable at night" safe).

Hmm...so how is this speculation helpful? Aren't there ~3 different mafia people? Couldn't they each buy one? Wouldn't the possibility of multiple purchases of such balance out the possibility of multiple people purchasing body armor?

Um...well how is that speculation

harmful

? Regardless, I just went and read through the front post and it says this...

You may only buy each ability once, and the mafia can only buy an ability once.

So, basically, why are you arguing with me? My speculation was correct and your counter was wrong. Question is...was it

intentionally

wrong? I'd think mafia would want to go out of their way to appear as though they have

no

idea how the mafia team works...

[MeMe]

What's the list at the beginning of the post for?

[MeMe]

The vote analysis is, for me, the most convincing case against Phoebus.

Looking over the posts though, I'm also concerned about CoolBot. He, as Stewie pointed out, never voted for Nai -- and, while he expressed an interest in doing so on Day 1...

I agree we should pressure Nai. Not only did he assume MeMe wasn't scum, he was pretty jumpy for getting a vote instead of an fos from Yggdrasil and went so far as to vote him for it. I'd add a vote to the bandwagon, but that leaves him one vote away from a lynch. If he doesn't explain himself, I will change my vote to him.

...that could also be read as a partner telling Nai to get in here and say something convincing. Nai posts within 40 minutes of CoolBot's threat, but CB waits four days to come back in...

I think we can let Nai go for now. I wasn't aware he was so new to the game, and his comment about fos procedure is something someone new to the game would think.

...and, in hindsight, I wonder if it was to let the heat cool on Nai so he'd not be looked at askew for not voting him as promised.

I'm also now looking at this comment with fresh eyes...

I guess we're not worried about a penalty for skirting around a post restriction.

Which was in response to me using the smiley code Speedy put together. Was he hoping the mod would shut it down?

And another thing: Stewie's been the only one I'd not have entertained a vote for since day one. He was the first to notice my restriction and suggest that I be given a voice -- if he's scum, that would've been a very weird thing to do.

I'm leaning toward Phoebus & CoolBot being together.

[MeMe]

Pie post.

[MeMe]

CoolBot - who would you like to see lynched?

[MeMe]

CoolBot's comment & examples regarding Thesp being a follower make me wonder...but I'm having trouble pairing him up with anyone. However, his insistence that there's probably an SK in the game (when I think it very unlikely) make me think it's possible that

he's

the SK.

Regardless, he's certainly not been a follower today and since I think it more likely that he's a lone killer rather than mafia -- it's more sound to vote elsewhere. CoolBot's case against him could also be a way to get the attention from Phoebus (who still seems to be stalling).

vote: Phoebus

[MeMe]

unvote: Phoebus

I believe I'll be

re

voting him...that paragraph justifying his vote on me is, in my opinion, ridiculous when it's four votes to lynch. And if he truly thought he was in a dangerous position it seems that he'd have made an effort to post more quickly than 24 hours

after

my vote.

But I'd like to hear how Thesp can say, with authority, that Phoebus lies. To me the

points

sound high, but I couldn't say absolutely that he's lying about them. And a doctor claim is rather risky if it's not true when he should know that he could have been checked by a role cop.

[MeMe]

Then why don't you finish Phoebus off, Ygg?

[MeMe]

oh. dur.

re

vote: Phoebus

[MeMe]

Another thing we need to clear up is what happened with Nai. He was mafia and he was taken out overnight. If a vigilante didn't do it (and I think we can safely rule out the possibility of Thesp here), that means we

definitely

have an SK. Basically, if Nai's (and/or Thesp's) death was the work of a vig, please 'fess up so we have that to factor in to our decision today.

[MeMe]

~visibility bump~

CoolBot? Yggdrasil?

[MeMe]

Same restriction, CoolBot? Or is it just coincidence that post was three words long?

[MeMe]

I'd hate to make a replacement take over for Ygg...if we can get this wrapped up, it'd be stellar.

I have no problem with CoolBot claiming then choosing the next claimant -- but I'd prefer to hear Yggdrasil's answer to CB's question

before

we start.

I'd also like us standardize exactly

what

we're claiming. Just current roles? Or shall we do the whole she-bang (starting points, ending points, earned points/when & how earned, role(s) bought/when bought, night choices for role) or somewhere in-between?

[MeMe]

We need to get a move on if we’re going to get any place before Ygg goes.

Since CoolBot would have trouble claiming on his own but seems to be allowed to quote whatever he wants PLUS three words, I’m gonna try to help him do this as quickly as possible.

All of the following is to aid CoolBot in making a complete claim…just quote what you need.

I started with 3 points
I started with 4 points
I started with 5 points
I started with 6 points
I started with 7 points
I started with 8 points
I started with 9 points
I started with 10 points
I started with 11 points
I started with 12 points
I started with 13 points
I started with 14 points
I started with 15 points
I started with a number of points lower than listed
I started with a number of points higher than listed

On night 1
On day 1
On night 2
On day 2
On night 3
On day 3
On night 4
On day 4

I bought doctor
I bought cop
I bought night-kill immunity
I bought bodyguard
I bought vigilante
I bought roleblocker
I bought ability cop
I bought nightwatch
I bought double vote
I bought back-up cop
I bought back-up doctor
I bought one-shot vigilante

I targeted CoolBot
I targeted MeMe
I targeted Mr Stoofer
I targeted mlaker
I targeted Nai
I targeted Phoebus
I targeted Someone
I targeted SpeedyKQ
I targeted Stewie
I targeted Thesp
I targeted TradaPIB
I targeted Yggdrasil

I earned one point
I earned two points
I earned three points
I earned four points
I earned five points
I earned six points
I earned more points than listed

I took a one-point disability
I took a two-point disability
I took a three-point disability

I have zero points left
I have one point left
I have two points left
I have three points left
I have four points left
I have five points left
I have six points left
I have seven points left
I have eight points left
I have nine points left
I have more points left than listed

[MeMe]

Well, that

is

a possibility if he started out with 10 points.

What we know about Speedy through his death scene is that he had "Immunity to Most Night Kills" (9 points) so if he also purchased one-shot vigilante, he spent a total of 14 points (that we know of). We know he was awarded two points for "balancing the game" on Day 1 and that he took a two-point disability on day 2.

And, to explain, I ruled out Thesp as a Nai-killing vig because he believed that the Nai's death was the work of an SK...if he'd been a vigilante who was responsible, he'd not have argued that.

[MeMe]

Where'd you get the extra points? I mean, I know you've got a disability (and not just because you're behaving as though you do...but because Crola confirmed its existence when he slapped Phoebus down in the thread by telling him you'd not violated it) ...but you've never said how much you earned for it and how long you're stuck with it.

[MeMe]

Started with three...took a three-point restriction...spent five.

Which leaves one.

[MeMe]

Question: why'd you take a three-point restriction when two would've been enough?

[MeMe]

"Which leaves one" was in reference to the fact that you earned one more than necessary. When I realized my meaning wasn't clear, I followed up with the question.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not quite sure how/if to claim in light of CoolBot's refusal to share his targets (which I think is crucial information for making the correct decision today). There are certainly things

I'd

rather hold back...but at this juncture I believe all cards on the table is the only way to go. Since CoolBot was the first to call for a mass claim today, I think he should have to give a full one.

I'll give Ygg and/or Stewie time to chime in and say whether they want more from CoolBot before claiming.

[MeMe]

You're forgetting that CoolBot may, himself, be mafia or SK. If he is, holding back on his "investigations" allows him to agree with/contradict whatever actions are claimed, depending on his motives. He doesn't have to be lying about the role he's holding to lie about the results.

[MeMe]

Since CoolBot's done, I think I should.

Started with 7 points & took a 3-point disability Night 1 to immediately buy "unkillable at night."

By Night 3, I'd earned 4 points for mod errors (2 each day) & gotten back 1 point Night 2 when my earlier purchase got reduced/diminished, giving me a total of five.

During the day yesterday, I spent my 5 points on back-up doctor & was informed at the beginning of last night that I'm now a doctor (so Phoebus

was

a mafia doc) and I protected Stewie.

I now have one point.

[MeMe]

Yggdrasil next.

[MeMe]

For three reasons, Yggdrasil.

1) If there was another doctor, I expected that he would protect Thesp
2) As stated yesterday, Stewie was the person I most trusted
3) CoolBot was accusing Thesp & I was accusing CoolBot. I thought that if either of them were innocent, he/both might have a good chance of being left alone because suspicious people are often left for lynch-bait.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Stewie...I think you've just stepped in it. At the beginning of today you said:

Before we do that, we should discuss the existance of a serial killer (we did have two kills last night, and if they can't be explained then there is probably a sk).

When you said that, I read it as "I'm a doctor who protected Thesp...since he's dead he must have been targeted twice" -- which is the ONLY pro-town meaning I can wring from it. How ELSE could a pro-town player know that there were two kills last night when there's only one reflected in the morning scene? You didn't claim doctor, though...and the only other interpretation of your post that I can see is "I'm a killer & my kill failed." You know, like it would if you targeted an unkillable at night player.

And the fact that CoolBot was blocked last night does nothing to confirm your alignment as, according to the front page, scum had access to everything except vigilante & backups.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for other explanations on Thesp's knowing Phoebus was lying...I can come up with two.

1) Thesp was a nightwatchman and knew that Phoebus didn't go out one of the nights that he claimed to
2) Phoebus purchased doctor later than he claimed & Thesp was a role cop who checked him earlier and knew he didn't hold the role of doctor the entire game, as he claimed

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I will be voting Stewie unless he can come up with a wowser of an explanation pretty darn quick for how he knew there "were two kills last night" when he didn't claim any ability that explains the knowledge.

[MeMe]

Hmm...gotta admit that sounds

kinda

plausible.

Another question, though: since you blocked CoolBot last night, you should've been fairly sure that he wasn't responsible for Thesp's death. Why then did you put forth his name as the first claimant?

[MeMe]

Yggdrasil -- an ability cop is different than an alignment cop. I believe that, if you're telling the truth, an ability cop would have, prior to last night, gotten "Yggdrasil has no abilities" rather than "townie" and, for that reason, I don't think you could be "reasonably confirmed as innocent" even if we knew for sure that Thesp

was

an ability cop and that he checked you. Regardless, it's academic at this point.

I think it's imperative that we figure out

Thesp's

killer -- the one killer we're

sure

exists. Because of that, I believe that CoolBot should be completely removed from consideration today.

I

still think it's probable that we've never had an SK...and it's also possible that Nai & Phoebus were a 2-person group and we've

only

got an SK left. In my opinion, lynching (or vigging) last night's killer could win the game for us outright and, because of that, we should focus on figuring out who we think was responsible for that and formulating a plan. Whether we've got one killer or two killers left, though, I don't believe no-lynch is an option because:

1) if it's Stewie, he could block my protection to be sure of a kill.
2) if it's me, you guys are out of luck trying to get rid of me overnight.
3) if it's Yggdrasil, no one can kill him at night...and blocking him (or protecting his target) simply puts us in the same boat tomorrow.
4) if it's CoolBot, there's still a second killer and we'd be banking on them targeting each other

CoolBot -- your input is sorely needed.

Pending items:

1) CoolBot, please confirm that I stayed put night 3
2) Stewie, please explain why you suggested CoolBot as first claimant

[MeMe]

3) if it's Yggdrasil, no one can kill him at night...and blocking him (or protecting his target) simply puts us in the same boat tomorrow.

Why can't he be killed at night? He said he bought one shot vigi.

The scenario is "if we've only got one killer left & Yggdrasil's it." Yeah, he claimed one-shot vig...but the chance of him vigging himself is pretty remote, I'd say. And, since no one else has claimed a night-kill ability, he can't be killed overnight if he's the only baddie left.

[MeMe]

I was just checking CoolBot's posts (to see if he's been elsewhere) and he posted in V/LA that he's without net access all weekend.

So that explains that.

[MeMe]

What's your preference today, CoolBot? Lynch me, lynch Stewie, lynch Ygg's replacement, or no-lynch?

[MeMe]

Huh.

I'm

leaning toward Stewie.

Stewie & Ygg-replacement...do you agree that CoolBot should not be under consideration for lynching today?

armlx...any news on a replacement?

[MeMe]

Quite a few reasons.

His "we did have two kills last night" comment still just feels

wrong

to me. I think his explanation is the best one he could've given, but who calls two nights ago "last night"?

And I didn't like his responses to my post about why no-lynch is a bad idea given the claims. He said "why can't he be killed" about Yggdrasil...which I think was quite clear & that if I'm mafia "we pretty much have to lynch you right now or we lose" -- which only reiterates the point I made myself.

Also, he had you claiming first when I think you should've been at the bottom of his list today since he blocked you.

I know he's offered explanations for all of the above but, for me, it's a decision between Stewie and Yggdrasil-replacement today and Stewie's the one I've got the most concern about.

Why are you leaning toward Ygg? I'll give you mid-posts so you can get complete thoughts out.

[MeMe]

mid-post

[MeMe]

I'm guessing you're referring to the "defending Phoebus" posts.

[MeMe]

mmm...is that part of the case against Yggdrasil or just a comment on your restriction? If it's regarding the restriction, don't bother to address. If it's about Ygg, I don't follow.

[MeMe]

Do you have more?

[MeMe]

I'm eager to hear Stewie's and Yggdrasil-replacement's thoughts on what's been said today.

[MeMe]

Today I'm leaning towards MeMe. If she's telling the truth about her not being able to die at night, then we have to get her right now, unless we lynch ygg in which case I can block her. If she's not, we may be more screwed than what we think.

Erm, Stewie? You seem to have forgotten the possibility that I'm telling the truth about everything, in which case I shouldn't be lynched at all. Of course, scum will be

quite

interested in lynching me since they now know it's the only way to win since I won't die & I can protect someone else. You were interested in hearing CoolBot's results but seem to be ignoring that they confirm my claim of staying in.

I'll do the analysis for Stewie (pretending I'm him & innocent) since he seems unwilling to do it himself: if Stewie's innocent, that means either Yggdrasil or MeMe is Thesp's killer.

--If Yggdrasil's scum he's likely telling the truth about purchasing one-shot vigilante (which, according to the front page, doesn't seem to be disallowed for mafia) since Stewie had yet to claim and could have been a role cop.

--If MeMe's scum, she's likely telling the truth about being unkillable at night & a doctor since both Ygg & Stewie had yet to claim and could have been role cops.

Looking at both of the above, Yggdrasil (if scum) would be the bigger threat as he, conceivably, has two opportunities to kill at night. Stewie, have you asked armlx what your block does? I mean, in Stewie's shoes I would've PM'd armlx by now to find out if two actions are taken care of by one block or if a single block only takes care of a single kill (as a doctor protect does). Have you, Stewie? No matter, I will.

armlx

:
--Does a block completely disable a player even if he has more than one action that night?
--Can scum purchase one-shot vigilante?

[MeMe]

And in case my all that wasn't clear, I still think Stewie's scummier than Yggdrasil...but I was trying to show that, from Stewie's perspective (if town), Yggdrasil's claims are the bigger threat, but he's portraying "unkillable" as the more dangerous claim and ignoring the fact that I'm a doctor altogether.

(and I'm just seeing Ygg's post in preview)

Yggdrasil, yes -- if you're telling the truth about the timing of your purchase, it does change things somewhat. It means that you didn't even have to admit to having one-shot vigilante today as you'd have known an investigator couldn't have seen it.

[MeMe]

Wow. Blocker's strong and we know for a fact that Stewie is a blocker through CoolBot's claim.

CoolBot -- I think that Stewie's actions show that he, too, has been pushing the SK theory today. His whole excuse for putting you forth as the first claimant was that he felt it imperative to find out whether or not you were a second killer (though I think it more probable that the intent was to discover what ability you'd purchased as a result of your high-point-value restriction).

Do you still find Yggdrasil more suspicious than Stewie? At this point, I'm not persuaded that Yggdrasil's a better choice than Stewie today...and I'm wondering if Stewie will change his mind about lynching me now that he knows he can completely disable both of my protections with his block.

That

will be telling.

[MeMe]

mid-post (in case you're not done)

[MeMe]

I've been thinking about this all day, bear with me.

If we have only one killer left and we incorrectly lynch Yggdrasil

--Stewie could be the killer. He would block me and kill CoolBot and we'd be in a draw tomorrow.
--I could be the killer. Stewie would block me and we'd be in a three-way tomorrow.

If we have only one killer left and we incorrectly lynch Stewie

--I could be the killer. Yggdrasil can't kill me and I'd kill Yggdrasil & win outright.
--Yggdrasil could be the killer. He would kill CoolBot and we'd be in a draw tomorrow.

If we have only one killer left and you incorrectly lynch me

--Stewie could be the killer. He'll block Yggdrasil and kill who he wants and win outright.
--Yggdrasil could be the killer. In which case he gets caught tomorrow because Stewie should block him.

Basically, when I look at the above, the "incorrect" lynch that gives us the biggest chance of winning the game is Yggdrasil's. Yes, I still think Stewie's scummier...but the more I think about the game as a whole (not just today's posts), the more I worry I'm wrong.

[MeMe]

Oh forget that. It seemed so clear in my mind, but looking at it on the page I'm wondering why one seemed more logical than the other. I had some kind of epiphany earlier, but I seem to have lost it.

[MeMe]

It'd be funner than a replacement.

[MeMe]

I don't think there were any votes to count today.

Could everyone post a "here" so we know we've got full participation?

[MeMe]

Stewie, what do you mean you're more comfortable letting me live? I thought I was your top preference for a lynch. Is that a typo? If not, what's changed your mind?

[MeMe]

I just thought of something. Lets assume I am the sole remaining killer. What do you guys lose if you don't lynch me?

1) We lynch Stewie
MeMe protects CoolBot. I can't kill anyone because CB is doc-protected and MeMe is invulnerable to night kills.

If you're the killer, the actuality would be that you'd hit CoolBot with both your vig kill and scum kill, thereby winding up in a two-player endgame. So, when you leave out the fact that you've claimed one-shot vigilante, that one seems logical. But we

can't

forget about that...and I think it's really weird that you seem to expect us to.

2) We lynch MeMe
Stewie can block me, prevent my kill, and be sure that I'm mafia/SK tomorrow.

If it were between you and me, sure. But it's between you and Stewie for me (and, I think, CoolBot). Even suggesting this when you've said that you can't see me or CoolBot as the killer looks hinky. I mean, lynching me means that, if you're telling the truth, Stewie's the killer and the one protector is out of the game.

3) If we somehow decide to lynch CoolBot, I'll be blocked and all my targets will be protected from night kills.

No-lynch makes more sense than CoolBot-lynch.

[MeMe]

mid-post

[MeMe]

CoolBot -- how confident are you that we can lynch scum today?

If we

miss

, I think the best we can hope for is a draw: 1) if we lynch Stewie and Yggdrasil's scum, he can kill you tonight by double-targeting you; 2) if we lynch Yggdrasil and Stewie's scum, he can block me and kill you tonight.

I'm trying to work out the benefits of going no-lynch...so far I've come up with

--There will probably be one less person to have to consider
--The killer won't be positive of whom I'm protecting
--We'll have more information due to night action reports

We should still have a game tomorrow even if there's a kill (I protect wrong or, if Stewie's good, he blocks wrong)...and I don't think there should be more than one unless 1) we have both mafia and SK left (which I consider to be ridiculously unlikely) or 2) Stewie's the killer and Yggdrasil vigges someone else or 3) Yggdrasil's the killer and is able to vig one of you and kill the other because both Stewie and I chose wrong. All of those are unlikely, in my opinion.

What do you think, CoolBot? Better to just lynch today and hope for the best or does no-lynch look smarter? I get less sure about how to vote every time one of them posts.

[MeMe]

Why is it better?

[MeMe]

So...you're saying you believe strongly enough that Yggdrasil's the scum and that he should be lynched today? That's the way I'm interpreting "double scum kill."

[MeMe]

A point I'd not earlier considered -- but I think it's doubtful that Stewie, if scum, could be both a blocker and a vig. Still, to my mind, that makes no-lynch even

more

attractive. If we're wrong today, you're saying that either one of them might be able to double-kill tonight...meaning you'll be dead. With no-lynch, at least there's a better-than-average chance that there'll still be three tomorrow AND we'll have more information.

For the record, I still lean toward Stewie being scum over Yggdrasil. His last "doesn't matter much" post makes it sound like he's confident he'll win this regardless of whether the doc or the claimed vig is lynched today (and he doesn't even consider that it might very well be

him

in the noose)...which is exactly what a scum blocker would be if we lynched today. He also says "

I

can block and lynch" instead of "I'll block and we'll lynch" which sounds to me like an "acting alone" mentality. Then there's the "last night" thing and the fact that he questioned his blockee...I just feel like there's a lot against him. The thing is, if we lynch Stewie and are wrong...we've lost the only role we have that can completely disable scum.

I think a single scum can be sure of a win/draw if we lynch anyone but them today. I think we'll make the footing more even by heading into night with all of us alive.

[MeMe]

Notice how she did not mention my "last night" post until we were all finished claiming, thus she knew I was roleblocker.

Uh -- yeah -- of

course

my mind change came after the role claims. Let me refresh everyone's memory with the whole story here...

Stewie...I think you've just stepped in it. At the beginning of today you said:

Before we do that, we should discuss the existance of a serial killer (we did have two kills last night, and if they can't be explained then there is probably a sk).

When you said that, I read it as "I'm a doctor who protected Thesp...since he's dead he must have been targeted twice" -- which is the ONLY pro-town meaning I can wring from it. How ELSE could a pro-town player know that there were two kills last night when there's only one reflected in the morning scene? You didn't claim doctor, though...and the only other interpretation of your post that I can see is "I'm a killer & my kill failed." You know, like it would if you targeted an unkillable at night player.

And the fact that CoolBot was blocked last night does nothing to confirm your alignment as, according to the front page, scum had access to everything except vigilante & backups.

The "last night" comment didn't turn my head until your claim didn't jive with the only pro-town interpretation of it I could see. Your claim made me next-to-POSITIVE you were scum...but then you replied...

I said last when I meant the one before the last. Obiously last night there was only one kill - but there was no need to recall that since it had just happened. Since there was only one kill last night, and two the night before, we have to explain the kill the night before last or else there's a sk.

To which I replied...

Hmm...gotta admit that sounds

kinda

plausible.

Another question, though: since you blocked CoolBot last night, you should've been fairly sure that he wasn't responsible for Thesp's death. Why then did you put forth his name as the first claimant?

Changing my mind about you wasn't about you claiming role blocker. It was about you seeming to contradict yourself. Twice. Did you

really

forget this, Stewie??

It's incredible that in your last post you say "if scum, she realized that she can end the game by lynching me," while totally ignoring the fact that I'm the one currently arguing hardest for no-lynch because I'm

not sure

. CoolBot has said he thinks it's smarter just to lynch today. Yggdrasil has said he'd like to lynch you rather than no lynch...but he'll no-lynch if that's the consensus -- so you've also misrepresented him by saying, in your last post, that he doesn't "seem to be considering anything other than lynching me."

Argh.

[MeMe]

And?

[MeMe]

I don't understand how you can look at Stewie's scenarios and conclude that we should lynch!

His "Stewie is scum" scenario says that town can only win if...
a) we lynch Stewie
d) we lynch CoolBot (in which Stewie's not the ONLY one who'd have to decide what to do...I'd not know who to protect and Yggdrasil'd not be sure of who to vig)
e) we no-lynch (putting us at four again, probably, but so what? We'd have more information)

His "MeMe is scum" scenario says that town can only win if...
b) we lynch Yggdrasil
c) we lynch me
d) we lynch CoolBot
e) we no-lynch

His "Yggdrasil is scum" scenario shows that town can only win if...
a) we lynch Yggdrasil
c) we lynch me
d) we lynch CoolBot
e) we no-lynch

I'll not bother with the "CoolBot is scum" scenario except to say that no-lynch would work just as well there as lynching CoolBot.

Only

two

options appears in all the "town can win if" lists: no-lynch & lynch CoolBot.

[MeMe]

My word -- I

hope

we'll be through with this day by then.

[MeMe]

My order of preference today:

1) no lynch
2) lynch Stewie
3) lynch Yggdrasil
4) lynch CoolBot
5) lynch MeMe

I can keep arguing...but I think it's time for action. I'll go with the the only option I'm relatively sure won't end in town loss today or tonight.

vote: no lynch

[MeMe]

I'd have thought Yggdrasil would've been happy to no lynch if innocent. Instead he...

1) went for Stewie
2) unvoted him when Stewie moved off no-lynch
3) now says I'm a viable suspect though earlier he said he was interested only in lynching Stewie or going no-lynch

Very interesting. I think that no-lynch looks no-good to scum...Stewie's willingness to go with it was a point in his favor to me. Though Yggdrasil said he'd do it if it was the consensus...when it came down to his vote, he chose to try to get something going on Stewie instead, which was, I believe, an attempt to persuade ME (as CoolBot's pretty set and Stewie's certainly not interested). I, however, didn't join him so he seems to be going for the next best thing...positioning himself to vote for me. He's now asking someone to, basically, argue him out of the idea of SK (and...what?

in

to the idea of voting me?)

I think I'm gonna have to switch the placements of Stewie & Ygg in my preference list. Still very confused.

[MeMe]

My points are a valid assessment of your actions rather than paranoia. You said one thing and seemed to be going a completely different direction...and now you're changing yet again. But, hey -- you're right about me not wanting to be lynched today and anyone looking like they're trying to push things that direction will most definitely get my attention.

And in a deadline situation, less votes are usually needed (two, probably)...whichever gets there first is the action taken. So, if you're scum, it

would

have been worth your while to try to convince me of Stewie.

We do need mod clarification on what happens at deadline if we haven't reached majority decision

.

That said, I still prefer a no-lynch...but your last three posts have raised your suspicion level.

[MeMe]

CoolBot: do you believe that Stewie's more likely to be scum than I am?

Yggdrasil: do you believe that Stewie's more likely to be scum than I am?

[MeMe]

We can win this for sure. Follow me, Yggdrasil.

unvote: no lynch
vote: Stewie

[MeMe]

This is infuriating.

[MeMe]

Yggdrasil.

[MeMe]

~hopes against hope~

MOD

: Do self-votes count?

If not, we could switch things around quickly and end the day with votes spread in a

three-way

tie: MeMe - 1, Stewie - 1, Yggdrasil - 1 -- leaving CoolBot alive to win it for the town. Or, at this point, I'd be willing to be two-for-one-lynched with Stewie as, unless Yggdrasil already asked the mod about self-votes and knows they don't count (doubtful), he's not the guilty one.

[MeMe]

That's cool, armlx (though denying me my earned points today was NOT cool !)

Beautiful job, town.

I truly thought I was the only baddie left and spent much of this last day very very distressed -- thinking that no-lynch was my only hope of winning...as if Yggdrasil was lynched, Stewie would know I was scum and block me & if Stewie was lynched, Yggdrasil would know I was scum and probably

try

to vig me despite my bogus claim of being unkillable at night. When armlx said that a lynch would take precedence over no-lynch in a tie I had to just walk away from the computer or my monitor was about to get a fist through it. I thought "all my hard work...both Stewie and Ygg willing to do it..." Tore me up. In my opinion, changing the "usual" way of doing things is fine -- but only when there's advance warning. My whole day had been building to "hey -- what about no-lynch?" and just when I'm finally working it, the option became a lot less easy to achieve. I'm guessing that Stewie picked himself up an "unstoppable kill" or he'd probably have attempted to kill CoolBot last night...am I right? And CoolBot, did you double up on the 3-point penalties? Or did you start out with more points than you claimed? Or both?

Couple of things, though
--Did CoolBot actually get a result that said I didn't go out N3? Because, since I purchased uninvestigatable," I thought that cop & watch should've gotten "no result" (or something like) which

can

be translated as a block
--Did CoolBot receive the message that he'd been "blocked" N4? That seems rather unbalancing as it confirmed Stewie's claimed ability
--And what the heck was up with the roleblocker being almighty?? Doctors only protect from one kill and I think it's just way too strong for roleblockers to block more than one action. That was insurmountable! Despite the fact I didn't have much to block, no one

knew

that!

This was a really fun game mechanic, though. I had a horrible blast playing it -- and spent more time on this game than any other in my mafiascum history. I truly thought we scum had a chance of pulling this off.

armlx -- I'd also love to see all night choices if you've got 'em!

[MeMe]

Oh -- wait.

Did CoolBot lie about his ability? Was he actually a vigilante??

[MeMe]

The real reason I denied you points was in case of a end game tie the most points left would win. Giving you points would end up in a potential tie which I really dislike.

If this had been the game decider, I'd have been super-mad...but we got beat fair and square.

Sorry about the lynch thing too.

Don't be. I only bother with rants after games I really enjoy. I'll be second-guessing for weeks.

Note: The mafia could communicate in the day. Not sure if that was posted anywhere.

When I saw this in my role I thought "what a LUXURY," but it's truly horrible. When I play scum, I play it straight. I do my best to forget about who my partners are and just go after whoever looks most suspicious. It was IMPOSSIBLE in this game because the "what should we do??" and "quit voting me" emails were nearly constant. All told, we ended up with more than 200 emails back and forth. It was time-consuming and really difficult to play naturally. I think I'll include it as a balancer to weaken scum in my next game...

SK got a point for voting for any person when they were lynched.

Wow. Stealing roles, gaining points for lulling the town into the belief there was no SK by not killing...AND free points for just placing a vote? You had it all, Stewie, including the wording in the opening post making both me and CoolBot pretty sure you didn't exist. Does that sound like sour grapes? You're hearing me right, then.

I think I gave them 3 points for no night kill here

Nope. But Crola was modding at that point, not you.

Thanks SO MUCH for the game armlx. Truly a fantastic idea -- I'm hoping you'll tweak and run Points 2.

[MeMe]

I guess all I'm doing now is bitching because I was so close but didn't quite get there.

EXACTLY how I feel. I keep thinking "If Stewie had just targeted

CoolBot

..."

[MeMe]

Like how short-tempered I can be...

[MeMe]

I just realized something...

N3
Mafia
Nai- Uses unstoppable kill on Speedy.

Stewie- Kill Nai

Coolbot- Watcher, watches Meme (sees no action), renew restriction, 4 points
Thesp- Protects Speedy, but unstoppable kill pwns

D3
Mafia-
Phoebus- gets doc, 1 point left

...Phoebus bought doctor

NIGHT

3 and protected Nai. armlx -- remember I sent you a PM during Day 3 saying "just wanted to make sure that the protection on Nai was noted" (or something like that)? And I'm almost positive you said "yes" -- I couldn't figure out

what

the heck happened. Or was that Crola?

I cleared out all of my PMs for the game since all of my mailboxes are way too full and I delete when I can...but I'm 95% sure I'm right on this. Phoebus, Nai, can you confirm that my memory's correct?

[MeMe]

Found it in the gmail thread we had going

He must've been given a double-whammy, though, since you protected him. Hopefully one or both of the hits were by one-shot vigilantes who now have no power.

So.

[MeMe]

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