Newbie 869 - Game over

[Deer]

Not really a fan of random voting, but...

vote: RPG*Twilight

because I don't like the twilight series

[Deer]

So where do these random votes take us?

[Deer]

I also have school, so I'll be missing lots of morning/afternoons. Sorry about that.

But I wasn't expecting a bandwagon after my vote...it was just a random one. Wagoning for no apparent reason is pretty scummy to me, but I'll keep my eyes open and watchful.

[Deer]

Note to self: Of Deer, jee, Ellibereth, 1-2 is most likely scum. In this case, the latter is the highest suspect.

I forgot to add this on to my previous post:

As Sens said, this seems unfair. Besides Ellibereth, who might just be new and have little experience, me and jee have done little to show ourselves as scum. My reason for voting RPG was just as legitimate as your reason for voting for SensFan, and jee's, while it may have been a slight bandwagon, also appeared to be random. I will UNVOTE: to save RPG for now, but your FOS's are based on really nothing.

Also, I'll fill out your form:
Previous experience with forum mafia: none, but I have experience with other forms of mafia
Preferred role: Cop!
How active: Like I said, I'll be missing mornings/afternoons, but I should be fairly active during the day.

[Deer]

Haha, I meant

unvote

[Deer]

In regards to the vote, I'm sticking with what jee said. I don't FOS twilight for any reason at all (yet ) so there's no need to keep the vote. We've learned some valuable things, I think.

[Deer]

Hey RPG, I said "So where do these random votes take us," not jee. Just thought I should clear that up.

[Deer]

To defend myself and address your points, Mr. Finch:

1. I started the RPG "wagon" for a truly random reason. Just because other people followed should not put me under suspicion, IMHO.

2. The quick unvote was, as I said, done because now that the RVS is basically over, there's no need to keep the vote on. RPG hasn't done anything scummy that I've seen, why stick the vote on him when there's a lot to be said and done?

3. As for direct interaction, I'm not sure what you mean by that. I've had no reason or opportunity, even, to talk to Jee directly so far in the game, and just because I haven't said anything to him proves nothing.

I don't want to go all OMGUS so I'll keep myself unvoted for now. But I feel that your logic & reasoning is pretty flimsy.

[Deer]

jee, I'm confused on who you think I'm "buddying" with.

[Deer]

Well then that makes no sense. Seriously, there seems to be nothing I can do that you will not call scummy. I place a random vote, that's "planting seeds in the town's mind." I try to defend myself against what I thought was an accusation from Mr. Finch, then "oh, that's overdefending." I try to clear up a misquotation, that's "buddying." Are you going to call this "overdefending?" Because that's honestly bullshit. I haven't had much experience with these forum mafia games, but I was acting as a normal human being would act in the situations I was put under. Your illogical reasons are why I'm voting you right now.

Vote: jee

[Deer]

The above quote you mention was directed towards Mr. Finch, Elli.

[Deer]

Yes, I'm sure. The whole post was directed towards Mr. Finch.

[Deer]

NO! Can you guys learn how to read and understand what I'm talking about! The post I was referencing was the one where I said

I don't want to go all OMGUS so I'll keep myself unvoted for now. But I feel that your logic & reasoning is pretty flimsy.

In regards to YOU!

And like I said, there is really nothing I can do. I'm not distancing myself or bussing or what have you, I really think jee is scum.

[Deer]

Unvote
Vote: Jee

You getting scared that you started a BW, deer?[/quote]

not at all.

Also, Elli, the vote on jee wasn't just due to poor logic, it was just general overall scummy behavior. Sorry if I didn't make that clear, really.

[Deer]

Whoops, kind of messed up that quote. My bad. Should have been

Unvote
Vote: Jee

You getting scared that you started a BW, deer?

[Deer]

Sorry for the lack of talking, I have been really, really busy in my real life.

But to weigh in on this whole situation, I think DLA really needs to back up his claims. This post :

Stop avoiding the question. You've said I'm suspicious, now man up and explain yourself, with quotes.

Because you seem to be against everything. I'm explaining no further.

is bizarre to me. Things like this need to be explained - you can't say "I'm explaining no further" and except anyone else to believe it. Not sure it's a scumtell, necessarily, but it definitely doesn't help you look pro-town.

[Deer]

I also think that Elli made a slip that indentifies her as sure, Scum, though, so my vote stays there for the time being.

I'm interested about this "slip". Not trying to defend either one of you for now - I'm just curious. Care to elaborate?

[Deer]

I also think that Elli made a slip that indentifies her as sure, Scum, though, so my vote stays there for the time being.

I'm interested about this "slip". Not trying to defend either one of you for now - I'm just curious. Care to elaborate?

Are you bothering to read the thread? I've explained it two, if not three times already.

Is it the whole thing where you said Elli was scummy cause she thought she kept talking about bussing and scumpairs? Sorry, I figured a slip was more of just a passing comment that accidentally gave one away. Keep in mind, I am still a noob

[Deer]

this:

The fact is that I think Sens is scummy in all games I play with him.

and this:

2. The onyl relevant meta is that in every single game (3? 4?) I have played with DLA, he has been convinced I am Scum, and tunnelled on me pretty much to the exclusion of anyone else. Every time I've been Town.

seem to suggest you have some sort of vendetta against Sens. Now, thinking he's scummy is fine (although I don't right now), but you really have not explained yourself at all, and act like we're idiots for not understanding why you don't like him. Posting the way you are right now is not making you look good. I wasn't going to vote you before, but because you keep acting this way:

unvote, vote: DarkLightA

[Deer]

By the way, happy Thanksgiving everyone!

[Deer]

You're going with the flow? Afraid to stick out? THAT's scummy.

Unvote.
Vote: Deer

I think you're scummy. Just because other people do too is your fault, not mine.

[Deer]

Just because Elli followed me on both the RPG "bandwagon" early in the game and the DLA lynch does not mean I am scum. I'd be very happy lynching Elli after this. I think I explained my reasoning for voting jee here:

Well then that makes no sense. Seriously, there seems to be nothing I can do that you will not call scummy. I place a random vote, that's "planting seeds in the town's mind." I try to defend myself against what I thought was an accusation from Mr. Finch, then "oh, that's overdefending." I try to clear up a misquotation, that's "buddying." Are you going to call this "overdefending?" Because that's honestly bullshit. I haven't had much experience with these forum mafia games, but I was acting as a normal human being would act in the situations I was put under. Your illogical reasons are why I'm voting you right now.

Vote: jee

It had nothing to do with the fact that Elli was also voting jee - as a matter of fact, her reasoning for voting him was that she thought that he was "bussing" me. None of my votes have been cast with Elli in mind. Also, here, if you notice:

DarkLightA - 1 (SensFan)
Arthur Dent - 1 (Kami-Sama)
Ellibereth - 2 (RPG*Twilight, DarkLightA)
Deer - 1 (jee)
jee - 1 (Ellibereth)

Not Voting - 3 (Arthur Dent, Deer, Mr Finch)

Second vote count that Elli and Deer aren't together. Notice how tension is building on Elli.
---
Arthur Dent - 1 (Kami-Sama)
Ellibereth - 2 (RPG*Twilight, SensFan)
Deer - 1 (jee)
jee - 3 (Ellibereth, Deer, DarkLightA)

Not Voting - 2 (Arthur Dent, Mr Finch)

TATA! Saved
---

DarkLight tries to act like I "saved" Elli by voting for jee, when in fact, he moved his vote from Elli to jee! His logic is really pretty poor and if you choose to follow it just because he uses sarcastic comments like "TATA! SAVED," that's idiotic.

Also, I don't like everyone calling out scumpairs right now; it's really quite stupid. I haven't been buddying with Elli - because she chose to latch on to my in my voting patterns is no fault of my own. Please realize that.

[Deer]

Okay, that's NOT a good reason to vote. If you were to do a little reread (only 5 pages!), you would find that I've said that I have 3 suspects, one of them is Sens. I have constantly had a vote on one of them.

You did think Sens was scum.

[Deer]

Yeah, where's the mod?

[Deer]

Okay, I'm going to give my opinions here.

1. The mafia's killing of AD is bizarre to me. Arthur had a good chance of being lynched today, and killing him takes away the opportunity for him to be mislynched. Now, just because jee cast the most suspicion on AD does not, in my eyes, make him any more town than he was before. He could have killed Arthur just for the purposes of making the argument he's making now - because he FOS'd AD, he is not scum because AD died.

2. I still FOS Elli and Jee; Elli more than jee, though. I'd like to have Elli come in and defend him/herself before I vote, though.

3. Welcome Tuberkulos! Hope you post more than Kami-Sama

[Deer]

First of all, sorry for the lack of posts - I've been really really bogged down with finals and stuff. Got a prod so I figured I'd say something.

I guess "defend him/herself" wasn't the right choice of words. More just like explain his actions with regards to what Sens is already talking about, and give his FOS with reasoning.

[Deer]

@Mr. Finch - Finals. Sorry, so much studying. ugh.

@Sens - In my opinion, Elli used bus correctly, as jee said. Kind of confused on your logic, but I still have a bad feeling about Elli, based on early activities d1, especially the "bandwagon" during the RVS stage.

@Elli - care to explain said "bandwagon"? i didn't feel like you gave adequate reasoning during d1.

[Deer]

Back to Deer, he jumped on the DLA bandwagon with what seemed to me pretty weak reasoning when was a few off being lynched.

Not sure I would call that pretty weak reasoning. DLA, as a townie, played a pretty terrible game - he attacked Sens and gave no reasoning to back it up, even when prodded for it multiple times. You can't argue that that is not scummy; therefore, I don't know why that is pretty weak reasoning.

Also he over-defended his first vote on the first page after it was bandwaggoned, which was supposed to be random anyway.

That's not true. DLA made this post:

Note to self: Of Deer, jee, Ellibereth, 1-2 is most likely scum. In this case, the latter is the highest suspect.

and I felt I needed to defend myself against it. Apparently I have a big problem with what you call overdefending. I think that's just my style of play - if I get attacked, I'm not just going to ignore it. I'm going to give my rationale for why that attack is wrong.

DLA's post about the two before he was Lynched made a lot of sense, and others are pretty adamant that he is scum.

DLA's post before he was lynched made no sense at all, at least in reference to me. I believe post 177 explains that pretty well - I don't want to quote it and make a huge wall of text.

And the oscar goes to...

I explained my feelings on overdefending earlier. It's just the way I play - maybe the fact that I get too into my arguments is a bad thing. It is my first game, after all.


Finally:

@Sens: I thought bussing was the act of distancing yourself from your scumbuddies by placing a vote on them. If that's wrong please tell me, but if that is right, I think you can do that whenever you want.

[Deer]

Have to go now, but I would also like to draw everyone’s attention to RPG and deer’s almost complete lack of interaction day 1.

Your point? He really didn't say much.

[Deer]

Elli, why didn't you bring up RPG's scumminess (FYPOV) while he was still here - it seems unfair to suddenly attack TNM for something he didn't do.

[Deer]

Cop, I have an innocent on jee.

Does anybody CC this? If not, we really need to reconsider both Elli and jee's scumminess. And if both of them are clear, then I'm gonna move on to my secondary FoS - Sens. He's been tunnelling Elli this whole game, and while Elli has been scummy, the aggressive lynch push has made me a little suspicious, and if both Elli and jee are then clear, we need to look at other options.

[Deer]

Sens' claim explains the tunneling and it makes sense, considering the general scuminess of Elli. Honestly, I believe him over Elli, so here goes nothing:

Vote: Elli

Also, if Elli turns out scum we need to take a good hard look at jee, Elli's supposed clear. Good possibility they are scumbuddies, especially considering the immediate vote on me right after elli did. That definitely threw me off.

[Deer]

Interesting. Might have tried to kill Sens, and doctor saved him. Sens, now that we know you are the real cop, what was your report from last night?

I think we need to take a good hard look at jee - Elli tried to clear him with his fake cop report, and he immediately bandwagoned and buddied up with Elli after he voted for me. I'm going to hold off on a vote for right now, but right now I pretty heavily

FoS: jee

[Deer]

Also, merry Christmas/Hanukkah/Kwanzaa to all of you!

[Deer]

Definitely possible, TNM. Also, guys, we need to keep in mind that without the nightkill and with the successful lynch yesterday, we're in a good position - we can mislynch and come out okay.

[Deer]

yah tnm, I kinda just want mr.finch to claim for now though.

No no no - that could easily out doctor, and we still haven't heard what Sens has to say. Until there is more pressure on finch, he should NOT claim.

[Deer]

Hey Finch, here's VRK's quote from page 1:

If either of the first two setups are in play, and the situation occurs where the Goon is lynched first, the Roleblocker will still be able to submit both night kills and roleblocks (roleblocking is a function of the Roleblocker; night kills are a function of the scum team as a whole).

So the roleblocker can still NK. I really wish Sens would show up, it would make a lot of this deliberation easier.

[Deer]

Well, happy new years all. Too bad this game has slowed to a crawl.

[Deer]

Alright good posts all. Expect something decent from me tomorrow morning.

[Deer]

Alright here goes my scumhunting efforts:


Jee:

Almost everything about him I was going to say was kind of covered by TNM, unfortunately. He's been continually bandwagoning, was "cleared" by fake cop Elli, and has made some unexplained votes that looked like they were trying to steer the town towards a different target (specifically, me) and keep Elli safe. However, I know I came off a little scummy in the early goings, so I can't necessarily blame him for suspecting me. His case against Finch I also don't necessarily agree with. I guess I'll talk about that later. Also, the clearing by Elli I know could go both ways, but keep in mind this was Elli's first mafia game, and he might have thought it best to clear his partner when fakeclaiming. I'm not too sure how much he knew about the game.

Nacho:

Both of the people who came before him were mostly gone and when they did post, didn't have much to say. Nacho, I really think you need to reconsider your vote on Sens. Almost everything he said on D2, I think, can be chalked up to the fact that he got a guilty on Elli, and wanted a lynch without outing him as cop. Taking away the whole scumslip fiasco on D1, Sens, to me, looks like a cop trying to get his guilty lynched. I don't think we should consider lynching what may very well be our cop at this point, especially when there's quite a bit of game left to play if we lynch wrong. We're in a good position as town right now with the no-kill and good lynch yesterday - we should not lynch the cop right now, period. It comes off pretty scummy, FMPOV, especially the fact that you were calling him out for tunneling yesterday when you're essentially doing the same thing.

Also, please explain the vote on Finch. We are all still kind of confused on that one.

Mr. Finch:

This is most likely just a joke, but it still seemed somewhat off to me, like it was trying too hard to be town:

Finch - Definitely pro-town - trying hard to participate!

I don't necessarily agree with jee's points on you, though, Finch - the quotes he brought up seemed like honest scumhunting on your part. I'm okay with you for now.

TNM:

I'm pretty sure you're clear, so I don't need to spend too much time on you. Even if you weren't, you've been pretty pro-town, and Elli did spend some time trying to make a case on you.

Sens:

Why do you think you weren't roleblocked/killed? Also, why did you investigate TNM?

Okay, after doing that, I think I've narrowed down my suspects. I'm going to go ahead and

vote: Nacho

for now, we'll see if that changes.

[Deer]

@Deer: I think you should look at my case against him once again. If you have questions, then ask. Because right now, I don't feel like you understand it.

Here's what I gained from it: you think Sens is scum because he thought he caught a scumslip of Elli's (which may or may not be true), then tunnelled on Elli (especially on D2, when he claims he got a guilty) and then used some appeals to authority and got a little egotistical (after he got the guilty, again). I'm just wondering why you're so upset -

Elli was scum

. Sens did a good job pushing for that lynch, and while it might be a ginormous bus, all his posts on D2 come across as exactly what he claimed to be - a cop with a guilty. Correct me if I'm wrong about your arguments.

Also, please explain the vote on Finch. We are all still kind of confused on that one.

I would if I could. But I forgot a long time ago what all that was about.[/quote]

That's not okay. A vote like that, especially when you were acting like you knew exactly what you had on him, needs to be explained. It wasn't that long ago. [/i]

[Deer]

EBWOP:

I would if I could. But I forgot a long time ago what all that was about.

sorry,

[Deer]

My point is that his case on Elli was absolutely horrible, and he was dropping scumtells all over the place. He claimed cop AFTER several people had already hinted that they thought he was the cop.

Well, he had to try and make a case on Elli without directly claiming cop, I believe. The whole AtoAs and bussing business seemed like just a way to convince the town to lynch Elli without outing his report - after all, Elli didn't do anything THAT outright scummy.

@nacho:

do you remember what general thing it was about?

His not voting on the Elli wagon and his interactions with Sens.

You say that, but when Finch asked about your vote, you said:

Nope. Any other guesses, Finchy? Let's put some effort into this guess instead of just looking at jee's case on you...

And guess what jee's case on Finch consisted of? Finch not voting on the Elli wagon and his interactions with Sens. Explain yourself, please.

@Nacho: would you agree that even with the chance of SF being scum, it is not really a very smart move to lynch him now considering there's just as much evidence to show that he is the cop?

There's not evidence that he's cop. All we know is that he isn't vanilla.

Nobody else has claimed to be cop. There's a much better shot that he's cop than anyone else around here. Also, guys, keep in mind there may be no roleblocker: one of the possible setups is 2 goons, a cop, and the rest 'nillas.

[Deer]

Explain that Jee saw the same things I did, and I remember spotting those things?

But you said that was not what you suspected Finch for, as I quoted previously. That vote still looks really scummy to me right now, especially seeing how you can't even explain it anymore. I want a solid answer, not more BS about how you forgot or whatever.

As for jee...here we go again with the bandwagoning. Sens posting his CC late could be due to a variety of reasons - he said he was busy with school, moving, what have you, and still hasn't posted that much today.

Let me make one thing clear to you guys.

WE ARE NOT LYNCHING AN UN-CC'D COP TODAY. I don't care what you say. If he is mafia, we can deal with that at a later point. I refuse to lynch someone who may very well be the cop at this point in the game. We can lynch wrong and still come out okay, so lynching a possible cop right now is an EXTREMELY dumb move. If he lives another day, we can deal with his scumminess tomorrow. If he gets killed, and ends up being cop, then TNM is undoubtedly town. Please stop voting Sens.

[Deer]

Ever heard of pressure votes? I'm not afraid of someone hammering because if they do, they're scum.

That's not necessarily true. Now I don't think that Finch or TNM will hammer on Sens, but if they were other, less smart, players, I think they might based on all the effort you're putting into your case. A vote is a vote, whether it's a hammer or not. I just don't want Sens getting lynched today because of you.

[Deer]

Still doesn't explain the lack of roleblock, though. If there is a doctor/cop, then there is a roleblocker around, and if there was a NK attempt, there also would have been a roleblocking attempt.

Here are the scenarios/setups we face right now:

1. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Sane Doctor, 5 Townies

Both Sens and jee are telling the truth. If that's the case, then I think mafia must have missed the deadline - they wouldn't have tried to NK someone else, and not roleblock Sens.

2. 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Cop, 6 Townies

Sens is telling the truth, jee is mafia. This is a possibility, too, but still doesn't explain the lack of nightkill. If this happened, jee may have no-killed as mafia to then claim doctor and fake a doctor save. Or, yet again, he may have simply missed the deadline.

3. 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Doctor, 6 Townies

Jee is telling the truth, Sens is lying. However, I'm not sure that Sens would be willing to pull off such a massive bus, especially in a newbie game where his mafia partner is playing his first game ever. This does explain the no-kill and Sens not getting blocked, though.

Take that for what you will. In my mind, jee is not clear yet - he's been more scummy than Sens has. We'll see, though. This game just got a lot more interesting.

[Deer]

I think there's a good chance jee has planned this whole doc claim, so my vote is staying with him for the moment.

No. Lynching an uncounterclaimed cop when we're 1M-LyLo is the worst possible action we can take at this point.

Did you mean doc? Or did you think TNM was talking about Sens?

[Deer]

Well, nacho, as of this moment, I'm pretty sure TNM is town, and if you don't want to lynch an un-cc'd doc or cop, then that only leaves you or Finch's replacement for me to lynch, and I'd rather lynch you than Finch's replacement. I wouldn't feel bad lynching jee either, as I'm really not sold on his claim, but I guess my vote will just stay where it is for now unless someone can talk me out of it.

[Deer]

How could you 'not feel bad' lynching an uncc'd doc?

I don't really believe you - I think there's a good possibility we don't have a doctor, and therefore, you are uncc'd. You've been pretty scummy this whole game and just because you claim doctor in a game where we don't even know we have one doesn't take my suspicion off you. As for sens, I don't feel bad because I pretty much trust his claim - he CC'd a scum that claimed cop, and unless it is a ridiculously huge bus, he is probably the cop.

And TNM, I think Elli did okay as scum - I didn't really like the overall vibe I got from him starting from D1 and that "bandwagon" thing. But, he made some good moves (claiming cop, quality arguments and posts) that I think could have worked out for him if we trusted him and not Sens.

[Deer]

How could you 'not feel bad' lynching an uncc'd doc?

I don't really believe you - I think there's a good possibility we don't have a doctor, and therefore, you are uncc'd. You've been pretty scummy this whole game and just because you claim doctor in a game where we don't even know we have one doesn't take my suspicion off you. As for sens, I don't feel bad because I pretty much trust his claim - he CC'd a scum that claimed cop, and unless it is a ridiculously huge bus, he is probably the cop.

You don't believe me, so now you're fine with getting rid of me... without really hearing anything from me after my claim.

I'm fine with getting rid of you (although I'd prefer nacho) because you've been scummier throughout the game - what you say after the claim doesn't make up for past actions. Just because you are uncc'd does not make your claim true.

[Deer]

We really need sensfan and mr.finch's replacement in here.

Agreed.

Alright, let me work out some possible scenarios here.

If we no-lynch, and jee is the doctor, he BETTER be on Sens (or his replacement). I'm pretty sure Sens is the cop, and if jee, TNM, or anyone else dies, Sens will have another report. Whether we believe it or not is up to the town (I still don't see that massive bus happening, though), but we have the report anyways. That is good, and we can afford to mislynch someone at that point based on Sens' report or on general scummy play.

If we lynch jee, and he flips doc, it's not good. Sens, if he is the cop, will die, and then we have to make a decision. TNM will remain clear, but he'll have to essentially lead a lynch at MyLo on one of the three remaining with nothing to go on but pure scumhunting. TNM's been pretty good so far, but that's a tough choice to make and could easily cost the town the game.

I was definitely contemplating voting jee - getting this game over with right now would be great, and I'm still pretty sure jee is scum. But, I think in the long run, a

vote: no lynch

might be the best move. Sorry TNM.

[Deer]

If Deer, Nachomamma, or Mr Finch's replacement is scum then they will probably roleblock jee, and shoot SensFan (this is to make it seem as if jee is scum, they may however do it the other way round to make it seem as if SensFan is scum).

I totally didn't think of this situation and now I feel like an idiot. I think this might actually negate the whole point of the no-lynch, guys. If both jee and Sens are telling the truth, lynching jee today and Sens getting NKd tonight puts us in the about the same position as a no-lynch. If we no-lynch and jee is scum, then he will kill Sens and claim roleblocked. He will still not be clear and still be just as scummy - I'm not sure the no-lynch serves any purpose anymore.

And, even better, if jee is not telling the truth, then we lynch him today and we win. I think the best move is to lynch jee today and see what happens.

vote: jee

[Deer]

SensFan has been far more scummy then me this whole game.

Wrong. You've been constantly bandwagoning on Nacho's (and Elli's) votes, and had a lot of banter with Elli - nothing too accusatory, but some small things here and there that just seemed a lot like distancing to me.

For example:

@Jee: What the hell is that unexplained vote for? Bussing deer much?

Unvote, Vote jee

I know that's been quoted to no end, but besides the bussing thing, voting someone because of an unexplained vote seems like something a scumbuddy would do to their other scumbuddy. It's small distancing that Elli must have known wouldn't go far enough to get jee lynched.

Hes been stuck on one person who was scum because of one small, what he calls, slip. I didn't see it at all.

But Elli was scum. Whether or not Sens saw a slip or not, Elli was scum. And like I've said before, basically everything Sens said on D2, I believe, can be chalked up to him being a cop with a guilty.

During day 1, lets not forget he helped push a lynch toward DarkLightA. (he saw he had the backup to get him lynched and decided on a quick mislynch).

DLA was a ridiculously poor town player - he tunneled on Sens with no case whatsoever. I thought he was scum and most of the others did too.

He's suppose to be the IC, and compared to my last IC, he hasn't done anything to help us. Only make us not discuss, show us how to tunnel, and being an IC means that you can use that on your defense.

He may be a poor IC, but being a poor IC does not = scum.

Here's what I think happened. Jee chose not to NK, knowing full well he could claim doctor tomorrow and get suspicion off of himself. However, he forgot that if there is both a doctor and a cop, there is also a roleblocker, and Sens was not roleblocked. I'm pretty sure nobody would just miss the deadline like that - you've got to know what you're doing. So, because he can't explain the lack of roleblocking, he has to try and get Sens (our cop) lynched, and Nacho is merely helping him. I'm pretty sure that in a newbie game like this, such a massive bus wouldn't occur. Even if jee is our doctor, he will be roleblocked and Sens will be killed. That leaves us with nowhere to go and jee looking just as scummy. The best plan is to lynch jee today and see what happens.

[Deer]

Jee...that last post (except for the distancing part) confused the hell out of me. It might have just been a misunderstanding on my part, but can you please elaborate on some things?

For instance:

Hes been stuck on one person who was scum because of one small, what he calls, slip. I didn't see it at all.

But Elli was scum. Whether or not Sens saw a slip or not, Elli was scum. And like I've said before, basically everything Sens said on D2, I believe, can be chalked up to him being a cop with a guilty.

he also has a lot more experience with it. alot more than me.

Experience with what? bussing? knowing scumtells?

DLA was a ridiculously poor town player - he tunneled on Sens with no case whatsoever. I thought he was scum and most of the others did too.

True, but its an easy way for a mislynch. Who wouldn't take the oppotunity.

You cannot make a case on somebody because they voted to lynch someone who played a really, really weak town game. If that was true, everyone here except you would be scum. In fact, it seems like you might have not voted DLA just so you could later say "I told you so" like you're kind of doing now.

Here's what I think happened. Jee chose not to NK, knowing full well he could claim doctor tomorrow and get suspicion off of himself. However, he forgot that if there is both a doctor and a cop, there is also a roleblocker, and Sens was not roleblocked. I'm pretty sure nobody would just miss the deadline like that - you've got to know what you're doing. So, because he can't explain the lack of roleblocking, he has to try and get Sens (our cop) lynched, and Nacho is merely helping him.

You don't think I would have spent the last month playing the game and thinking about that in my head before I came out and claimed doc?

I think I know what you're getting at, but you're not really making a good case for yourself here. I think you would have thought about that, being mafia and all. If you want to explain this further, please do.

I'm pretty sure that in a newbie game like this, such a massive bus wouldn't occur. Even if jee is our doctor, he will be roleblocked and Sens will be killed. That leaves us with nowhere to go and jee looking just as scummy. The best plan is to lynch jee today and see what happens.

'pretty sure'. shutting out the possibilty of SF being scum because you are 'pretty sure'. why kill me when we have 3 others who haven't even claimed. See how the night roles go...

You can never be 100% sure in this game. I'm pretty sure you are scum, and I'm pretty sure Sens isn't. It's the only thing I have to go on.

[Deer]

IMO, I would like to get rid of SF now because he has the least amount of evidence out of anyone. If we mislynch tonight, it will come down to him vs someone else, and due to shear lack of content, we won't have anything more to go off sensfan. If SF gets lynched tonight, we will have it down to 2 people with a lot more content for each. Another reason I'd like more time to get more time for Mr.Finch's replacement. I don't think SF is in the process of being replaced, so IDK when he will start talking.

See, you say this and then get mad at us for wanting to lynch you, even though you are the "un-cc'd doc." It doesn't make sense, really.

And mod, please replace Sens - I assume he hasn't posted in long enough for him to be automatically replaced.

And TNM, I would be fine with a Nacho lynch - I'm pretty sure either him or jee are the scum. Nacho might in fact be buddying up with jee just so if we eventually lynch jee, Nacho can talk about how against the lynch he was, and so therefore, he is town. But, jee has been a bit scummier IMO.

[Deer]

Finch/his replacement may want to cc doc - I'd rather hold off on the NL until we see who they are and what they have to say.

On another note, welcome to the game zorblag - hope you're more in it then Sens was.

[Deer]

I'm not trying to cut off conversation stop the town from sharing good ideas. That should happen but it should happen starting tomorrow. I'm trying to cut off conversation that makes it easier for the scum to find a route to victory; we want to make them work and sweat as much as we can and at this point that means voting for a no lynch and ending today before having any other discussion.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Agreed.

vote: no lynch

I don't really like doing this, but I figure I'm going to be outvoted anyways. I still think either jee or nacho are scum, but we'll see what happens during the night actions.

[Deer]

Okay, I'm back guys. First off, sorry jee, guess we all make mistakes sometimes. You came off as scummy to me, I was just trying to follow my gut.

One thing I think we need to realize here is that Nacho is by no means clear just because he got doc-protected. In fact, I think because Zorb claims to have the no result, the situation is that the mafia either missed the deadline and no night actions were submitted on N2, or Zorb is lying. I'm pretty heavily leaning towards the former - I still find it hard to believe that Sens committed such a massive bus at the beginning of the game. So, to answer your question Zorb, I still am pretty sure you are the cop. We're not lynching you today, no matter what other people say. We can deal with you at LyLo if need be.

Now, that does not also necessarily mean Nacho is scum, but I've found him quite a bit more scummy than Finch/Pulindar.

1. Nacho pushed pretty hard for a Sens lynch on D2 and D3, yet immediately voted Elli once Sens claimed cop. If you felt like Sens was scum, why believe his claim without any questions or deliberation once you heard it? Seems like it could very easily be a situation where you knew your scumbuddy got caught and you had to try and save face by voting Elli.

2. Once Zorblag replaces Sens (and comes off pro-town to everybody here), Nacho's suspicion is completely gone.

Right now, I'm seeing scum in Mr Finch/Pal or Deer.

What happened there?

3. The whole Mr. Finch vote situation I found to be pretty scummy in general. I've explained that before though.

So, in short,

vote: nacho

for now, and we'll see where this takes us.

[Deer]

@Deer: What's your opinion on Finch's Day 1 hammer?

I think the hammer itself wasn't a big deal, but I do think that he overreacted quite a bit. I don't like it, but I think it can be explained as nervousness or just his general personality.

[Deer]

@Deer and Pulindar, what were your takes on totallynotmafia getting killed last night? What do you think of Nachomamma8's reaction.

I think he got killed because he was both cleared by you and the most obviously pro-town. TNM wasn't going to get lynched anytime soon unless he made some sort of huge scumslip, and a person like that spells trouble for the mafia. Also, I think the mafia didn't want to kill a power role because they figured they could try and get one of them (probably you) lynched today. Or, they couldn't kill one of the PRs because one of them is mafia...

Zorb, of the various scenarios you listed, which do you think is the most plausible? I can see the mafia NKing and no-blocking to basically implicate you, Zorb. But that just creates a massive amount of WIFOM that I can't even begin to wrap my head around.

[Deer]

Alright, I've been prodded so I guess I'll come in and say something. In the beginning, I didn't really find all that much Mr. Finch did to be suspicious. However, I've started to get some seriously bad vibes from Pulindar. It's mostly based on instinct, but the fact that he keeps saying how he expects himself to get lynched, or he expected himself to get NK'd doesn't look good in my eyes.

Though, I really hope I don't get lynched before I get to put in my thoughts. To be honest I was wondering if I would get a mafia role or not before jumping in, though I'll point that out later as well.

If I were scum, and I were not myself, I would have killed Pulindar.

Honestly I was concerned that even though I am a future lynch possibility the scum may have wished to lynch me to keep an unexplored view out of the game.

Townies don't always have to point out their town-ness; the way he keeps bringing it up seems like he's almost subliminally trying to put that thought into our minds. I don't like it. And, nacho hasn't done anything really scummy in the last day, so I'll take my vote off him for the time being. Also, I'd like to hear your guys' case on me - you guys haven't really said much solid about my scumminess, just that I've been kind of lurky and not completely scumhunting, which I agree I haven't been.

unvote, vote: pulindar

[Deer]

If you're ready to hammer, go ahead and do it. I don't really feel the need to address those points - I can tell already it's not going to change your mind. I don't want to waste my time building a whole case defending myself when I'm down here already. All I can say is that I'm town and I'm sorry for playing such a scummy game.

[Deer]

Okay, good luck at LyLo guys. Again, sorry for coming off so scummy.

[Deer]

Well done town, I was really thinking nacho was scum there. impressive bussing though