Newbie 869 - Game over

[Ellibereth]

Vote: Deer

Waaaaay overpopulated.

[Ellibereth]

Vote: Deer

Waaaaay overpopulated.

What do you mean?

Vote: SensFan

You always end up in my games... Stalker!

Deer are overpopulated.

[Ellibereth]

WAAAGOOOON!!

Unvote, Vote RPG*Twilight

[Ellibereth]

You know you just L-2'd that right?

I'm perfectly well aware.

[Ellibereth]

Wagon is dully noted, maybe my vote on Elli wasnt a bad idea.

Elli, why would you wagon on the first page?

What's wrong with wagoning on the first page? There really is no point on just having 1 or 2 votes on everyone.

WAAAGOOOON!!

Unvote, Vote RPG*Twilight

Why? Isn't this a particularly Scummy thing to do?

Unvote

FoS Ellibereth

I don't think it's scummy. Why do you think it is.

[Ellibereth]

What's wrong with wagoning on the first page? There really is no point on just having 1 or 2 votes on everyone.

Because at this point, we have no evidence of any kind
to indicate who is scum.
The townies will try to figure out who seems the scummiest
through discussion and the way people vote.

Scum, on the other hand, will gain from an early lynch,
as this means less discussion and most likely one less townie.
If any pro-town reaches L-1 there is the possibillity of a scum
quick-hammering.

FOS:Ellibereth.

I don't think it's scummy. Why do you think it is.

That's why it's scummy.
Why do you think it's not?

If I had placed him at L-1 it would be a different story. L-2 is nothing.
If someone quick-hammers they're scum and'll be lynched the next day.

I still see nothing to suggest quickly placing someone at L-2 is scummy at all. He's not going to be quick lynched.

[Ellibereth]

By you putting the L-2 on makes me think that you are scum, pushing the wagon, suggesting other players (1 scum, 1 town) lynch making you look like town and pointing the FOS at the players that lynched. Does that make sense?

No...it doesn't...

OT:

I

hate

random voting BWs. I'd like all of you, Deer, jee and Ellibereth to reconsider this choice, seeing as lynching someone on page 2 isn't the smartest thing to do.

My suggestion: Start actually playing properly and extend a lynch until at LEAST page 10.

Why would you even think that a page 2 lynch would be possible...

Previous experience with Forum Mafia: Some casual games on another forum.
What role do you prefer playing? Townie Power Role
How active are you, on average: Once or Twice a day.

How am I overreacting at all? I'm saying I liked the wagon. To be honest, I looked at ths screen for quite a while last night, contemplating if I wanted to place a fourth vote.

Would you call it scummy/suspicious if someone did place a fourth vote.

...and if I may throw my two-cents in this division on whether putting someone on L-2 is bad or not. I personally don't feel that's it bad to put someone on L-2, even this early. Somebody has to die sooner or later. Would it be better to lynch later, maybe. But at the same point, it gives the mafia more time to manipulate what little facts really do come out early.

Quick L-2 DOES NOT equal quick lynch, and the way I'm reading what you wrote makes it sound like you don't mind a quick lynch.

P.S. I don't see a reason in filling out a form. Experience should not affect how you think of someone in a game sense.

Why shouldn't experience affect it? And what about the other two questions.

@jee, Deer, DLight: Why would you unvote the moment RVS ends, even when the person you're voting for isn't close to being lynched.

[Ellibereth]

@Deer: It annoys me to no end when people unvote the second RVS is over.
If you think his logic sucks and that he's scummy, why not vote for him?. I don't find being worried about OMGUS to be a good excuse.

@Jee: What the hell is that unexplained vote for? Bussing deer much?

Unvote, Vote jee

@Art: Please reply to 54.

In general, about the early bandwagon thing. No one was getting quick lynched. Why the heck would mafia quick hammer?? It's like screaming to everyone , "Hi! I'm scum!"
Would I have minded if there was a quick lynch? No, we would have just caught the scum.

All in all, I feel all the arguments saying it's scummy are all wrong, and I won't be replying about it again unless someone comes up with someone drastically new.

[Ellibereth]

Eli, what's the meaning of 'bussing'?

No one else answer this, please.

When one scum attacks and/or votes his partner.

"It annoys me to no end when" (quote, Ellibereth) newbies try to sound like they know what they're talking about... Please give me a summary of your mafia experience.

Hasta entonces,

Vote: Ellibereth

I have had played about 10 games on a different forum. I have also seen a family member play.
I also happen dislike it when people unvote a RV just because "RVS is over".

Contesta eso su pregunta?

[Ellibereth]

I'm glad you know what bussing means, Eli, but now I question the following:

@Jee: What the hell is that unexplained vote for? Bussing deer much?

Unvote, Vote jee

How in tarnation are you comfortable enough to claim that jee and deer are the two Scum, this early in the game?

I'm comfortable claiming whatever I think, and I think there exists that possibility that jee and deer are scum.
As a matter of fact if the game were to end now and I had to guess who the scum were, I'd say them.

I don't want to go all OMGUS so I'll keep myself unvoted for now. But I feel that your logic & reasoning is pretty flimsy.

Your illogical reasons are why I'm voting you right now.

Vote: jee

Some contradiction in the above.

[Ellibereth]

@Sens: I think they are the two must suspicious people right now. I'm going to assume they are scum for now and see if what they do is consistent with that assumption.

@Deer: I know that it was quoting Mr. Finch. You said that even though you felt that Mr. Finch had bad logic, you would not vote him to avoid OMGUSing. Now, you have OMGUS voted jee, due to his bad logic.

@Finch: Why did you think the thread was dying? Why are you "fairly happy" that Deer is protown?

@ jee's post 73:

I was first checking to see a reaction, looking for a scummy reaction.

From who? And if it was deer, why didn't you continue to wait

#1
What the heck are you talking about? He DOES point out he doesn't like to RV, but how the hell does that associate him with town?

You accuse deer of buddying when he does tiny things such as agreeing with you in #4, and just clarifying a freaking post in #6.
However, you seem to "miss" the below more blatant case of directly defending you in #3.

As Sens said, this seems unfair. Besides Ellibereth, who might just be new and have little experience, me and jee have done little to show ourselves as scum. My reason for voting RPG was just as legitimate as your reason for voting for SensFan, and jee's, while it may have been a slight bandwagon, also appeared to be random.

Mod, prod Kami-sama please

[Ellibereth]

I'm V/LA for two-three days. Sorry guys.

[Ellibereth]

I'm back from Thanksgiving, but I'm tired as hell.
I'll read through and post something later today.
Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving.

[Ellibereth]

@Sens: I'll admit I probably used the word the wrong way. My intention was to suggest the possibility of a jee, deer scum pair.

@Art:
What the hell are you talking about. L-2 does not equal a lynch. If anyone had quick hammered they would be scum. Your logic is broken, not mine.

@jee: Oh, we numbered the posts differently. Answer this please: What is buddying and why is it a scumtell?

@DL: I have no idea what the heck you are trying to do. You're intentionally trying to seem vague and saying you'll explain things "postgame"or saying "Sens knows". Those aren't answers.

Unvote, Vote: Darklight

L-1, Claim please.

[Ellibereth]

Sens: Does your thinking that I'm scum come solely from the fact that I suggested jee and deer were mafia?

Deer: What do I have to defend?

ALSO, if I were scum, why, out of anybody, would I choose AD to nightkill. AD's indecisive decisions would be a perfect accusation to push toward and get him mis-lynched. Why would I make it hard on myself and kill my 'top suspect'. I would then be required to fabricate another accusation on someone else.. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not sure, but is this WIFOM or not?

[Ellibereth]

I believe it is classified as WIFOM

Do you think using WIFOM is scummy?

[Ellibereth]

Do you think using bad logic is scummy?

[Ellibereth]

Sens: Does your thinking that I'm scum come solely from the fact that I suggested jee and deer were mafia?

I've explained it. I think you used a word without knowing what it meant, and then most likely scenario for you having heard that word is from a scumbuddy.

The definition of bussing doesn't even really fit the context of your post, quite apart from it being insane to accuse someone for bussing that early in the game.

I think it's ridiculous to think misusing a word implies hearing it from a scumbuddy.

[Ellibereth]

Where else have you heard the word bussing, without the meaning?

Reading other games.

[Ellibereth]

I just thought it was OK to suggest scumpairs in Day 1.
Now I know it's not.

[Ellibereth]

Yeah, I'm a boy. Been too lazy to correct it. I don't really mind though.

@Sens:
We're going to get nowhere with you calling it a slip, when it's just a misuse of wording. Clearly jee/deer also don't understand what it means that well. I respect your experience, but you're just wrong this time.

@Elli - care to explain said "bandwagon"? i didn't feel like you gave adequate reasoning during d1.

In general, about the early bandwagon thing. No one was getting quick lynched. Why the heck would mafia quick hammer?? It's like screaming to everyone , "Hi! I'm scum!"
Would I have minded if there was a quick lynch? No, we would have just caught the scum.

All in all, I feel all the arguments saying it's scummy are all wrong, and I won't be replying about it again unless someone comes up with someone drastically new.

I'm tired of people saying an early bandwagon is scummy. It's not. I would do it again. Fin.

[Ellibereth]

It was an attack on Deer. Deer said he was waiting for a defense from Elli, without ever attacking Elli himself. It threw up a red flag for me. Possibly a buss in my opinion. Yes, I said it... a buss.

How the heck does the above have anything to do with bussing.

[Ellibereth]

TNM:

What is the line between over defending and defending.
Why are you voting for deer over jee.
What do you think of RPG's day 1 play.

[Ellibereth]

Would you agree that RPG's actions carry over in determining your alignment?

[Ellibereth]

RPG reacting to the wagon on him:

#4
"Hammer without looking like you're hammering" is complete crap. Places me in a "a deep hole" for no reason. Thinking he even has to defend to something in the first place. He's trying to build me up to be an easy lynch target over the next few posts too.

#7
Clearly doesn't understand that mafia would have been idiotic to hammer there. Makes an unsound assumption that there must be a scum on the wagon.
Also, Random votes aren't really supposed to be random...

His reaction was ridiculous. He tries to build a case out of nothing on me.

Then he attacks jee followed by DLA. Always going after the easy targets.
Then in #12 he stars going on about keeping an open mind, when he's clearly not. The context of the post is also ridiculous because there should have been no hesititation if he thought DLA was just distracting him.

Day 2 comes and he puts up #17

This makes no sense. EVERYONE got on DLA, that's what makes this difficult. And DLA was our BWCS, given that he offered us nothing when SensFan had to repeatedly ask what he was talking about. DLA was making no sense to anyone, so it's really a null-tell. I think it's more the fact I think scum took advantage of this.

He sure did.

He didnt do any of his part, that I understand, but now that I re-read this with new information, the word "hypocritical" "demanded" "most suspicious" "hounded" seems like a plea to hound DLA.

How in the world do those sound like a plea? I have no idea.

And another thing, if she said she "assumed" she knew the two scum. Why'd she vote for DLA at all if she wanted to help the town? She said a Deer and Jee connection is most likely. Voted for both of them, then unvoted and got a townie. Hmmm.

I would say to myself: "Suppose Deer and jee are the scum, would their actions support this assumption." And now I'm getting called to doubt for voting DLA when earlier he himself said "it's a null-tell". (Two quotes up).

For visual proof. She could have very eaisly thrown two names into that hat. (Or maybe one is, and then instead of her name, threw in another... the possibilities)

I'm not going to vote right now, as it's too early to really determine why the NK happened, and the such.

How the heck does throwing names in a hat have to do with anything? And what visual proof? This makes absolutely no sense.
He clearly suspects me but doesn't place a vote because of "not knowing why the NK happened". Scum can manipulate the NK, you probably won't know for a while.

He's been trying to make cases out of nothing and shows a hesitancy to back up his words with a vote. All he's really does is restate the most obvious things.

I'll get to TNM's posts later, but for now

Vote: TNM

[Ellibereth]

Elli, how can you honestly attack TNM for things RPG said. Although the actions of both players should be similar because they are playing the same role, he has no way of defending them.

I reread RPG and found him scummy.
Sure TNM really can't defend it yet, but the record of scumminess is still on him.

I'm at school right now, more later.

[Ellibereth]

Well considering that I can't really defend RPG's comments except to say that I know that he (I'll assume RPG's a he) was town, that seems like a very calculated scum attack on me. First you ask if his actions carry over in determning my allignment (which is obvious, did you really need to ask this?) as the setup and then you go back and drag up things he has previously said, knowing that I can't defend them. Why didn't you bring this up back when he first said them?

Meh. I reread RPG’s day one and found it scummy. I asked you first because I didn’t want any crap with what he did doesn’t carry over. I didn’t look at his posts carefully until now.

Firstly, even though I didn't think it made you scum because surely mafia wouldn't be that stupid, he has every right to question the motives of someone who bandwagons on day one. His main problem was that you said "WAAAAAGOOOOOON" implying that you were trying to get other people to jump on too.

Nowhere does he mention that his main problem was with my wagon shout: look what he writes:

So why did you put up a vote for someone in the first place if all you wanted to do was wagon? Or by the sounds of it, hammer without looking like youre hammering.

It's interesting how quick you did this in RvS, still. And given this quote, you sure are putting yourself in a deep hole.

So i'm at L-2, what do I have to defend? an RvS? You actually have more to defend by wagoning then by me being at L-2... and you're not being very convincing. So where's the smart town play in that? Either way you look at it, it looks like you're covering up scum at the very least.

Nowhere do I sound like I want to hammer without looking like I’m hammering. That was already BS.
Nothing bad can come out of an L-2 in RVS. He attempts to make it look a huge scumtell by saying that I’m in “ a deep hole”.
If you want over-defensiveness coupled with logical holes, it was clearly his reaction to the BW.

Also how can you say that by attacking Jee and DLA those are easy targets? Other people have been suspicious of them too, including you! Were you attacking easy targets as well?

I admit I’m guilty of going after easy targets too. Doesn’t mean it’s not bad. Day 1 was basically almost a giant policy lynch of DLA in the end.

Well if you look at the actual quote in context... ...you'll see that RPG was actually defending Sens, and pointing out that everyone is guilty of voting for DLA, even himself.

He clearly said it was a null tell. Then he implied suspicion on me for voting DLA.

Lastly you say that he was trying to make cases out of nothing, which is what you seem to be doing here. I'm guessing that RPG was holding off on voting in order to prevent a mis-lynch, particularly how he has already seen that people aren't afraid to bandwagon.

You really think that? He was scared one vote at the beginning of day 2 would immediately lead to a mislynch? You shouldn’t be afraid to bandwagon.

My suspicions of you before were mainly only because other people had consistently suspected you

Not a good reason at all.

I don't really see the point of the fos thing but the thing that's not making me change my vote to you yet is because if you ARE mafia, I don't understand why you would go after me when I am suspicious of your two main suspects all along, you could easily sit back and vote for them too while being completely consistent. That is unless one of them really is your scum-buddy, and the whole thing was just an act and you distancing yourself or even "bussing", which you apparently know all about.

Oh you suspect me, but you vote won’t for me. Why would I go after you, you ask? No duh. I think you’re scum. If you think I’m scummier then jee you should go ahead and vote. Your hesitancy is making me dislike your position even more, especially after how fast you changed your vote from Deer to jee.

[Ellibereth]

In post 250 by TNM:
It’s funny isn’t it? He goes on about how his thinking process was similar to mine for a while and all of the send says I could be scum just because everyone says so. Scummy.

this:

The fact is that I think Sens is scummy in all games I play with him.

and this:

2. The onyl relevant meta is that in every single game (3? 4?) I have played with DLA, he has been convinced I am Scum, and tunnelled on me pretty much to the exclusion of anyone else. Every time I've been Town.

seem to suggest you have some sort of vendetta against Sens. Now, thinking he's scummy is fine (although I don't right now), but you really have not explained yourself at all, and act like we're idiots for not understanding why you don't like him. Posting the way you are right now is not making you look good. I wasn't going to vote you before, but because you keep acting this way:

unvote, vote: DarkLightA

The above quotes is Deer’s. Show me how his reasoning is weak.
Show me where the night kill convo was dubious.
The post may look long, but most of it is not real content at all.

Post 263 next:

Well overdefending I guess is defending something that you really shouldn't have to defend, such as a random vote, which Deer did.

Ding ding ding! Guess what RPG did too!

I think Deer defended my accusations fairly well and now I'm starting to think I might just be tunnelling him because of Jee.

How the heck do you tunnel on someone because of someone else?

Have to go now, but I would also like to draw everyone’s attention to RPG and deer’s almost complete lack of interaction day 1.

[Ellibereth]

Have to go now, but I would also like to draw everyone’s attention to RPG and deer’s almost complete lack of interaction day 1.

Your point? He really didn't say much.

It's something I'm thinking about. Will get to it later.
Please respond to my case against RPG/TNM instead of picking out the one sentence that concerns you.

Gut call scumteam: TNM, Deer. Happy with either lynch.

[Ellibereth]

All deer has done this game is react to what people say about him. He has not tried to scumhunt or bring forth a new idea, only "defend" against people. That's already very scummy.

Rpg's posts are all restating the obvious and he has several illogical statements that I am not comfortable with. TNM switches his vote from Deer to jee because jee "was making him tunnel" on deer. And he won't for me just because of some WIFOM.

Why did I mention them not interacting day 1? If either does turn out to flip scum, that is a big tell IMO.

At school again, more later.

[Ellibereth]

I don't really see the point of the fos thing but the thing that's not making me change my vote to you yet is because if you ARE mafia, I don't understand why you would go after me when I am suspicious of your two main suspects all along, you could easily sit back and vote for them too while being completely consistent. That is unless one of them really is your scum-buddy, and the whole thing was just an act and you distancing yourself or even "bussing", which you apparently know all about.

WIFOM

[Ellibereth]

@Elli - you cannot compare RPG's "stating the obvious" posts with TNM's vote switch. Although they had the same role, they are different players with their own ways of playing. TNM did his read and placed his vote.

I'm talking about TNM's vote switch from deer -> jee.

If we go round and round like this much more then Elli, me and Jee are all gonna get lynched by each other!

Nah, I like you guys.

[Ellibereth]

Elli, why didn't you bring up RPG's scumminess (FYPOV) while he was still here - it seems unfair to suddenly attack TNM for something he didn't do.

I told you I didn't reread him until he after got replaced.
It's not about fair or not fair, RPG's scummy actions passed on and TNM did things I'm not happy with either.

[Ellibereth]

Cop, I have an innocent on jee.
And TNM, withholding information?

[Ellibereth]

Seems I didn't miss much. Elli's still Scum, guys.

And it's posts like this that mean you didn't miss much. I do believe you are IC. Does this not mean that you should be setting a good example and promoting conversation rather than lurking?

More useless discussion is the exact opposite of what we need right now. Elli is Scum. He dropped a Scum slip; it doesn't get any easier than this.

Sens, you're entire play against me has been this:
He said bussing wrong, he must be scum.
Seriously, I wasn't even the only one here who didn't fully understand the definition...

Your lack of comment about anything else that happened is noted.

[Ellibereth]

Deer, what do you have to say about the accusations against you?

[Ellibereth]

Hello everyone, I'll read up tomorrow.

But a glance at the screen tells me that Ellibereth needs to explain why he decided to investigate jee the first night, and name one other person he was thinking about investigating and why.

HINT: "He was scummy to me" is not a reason for why.

Welcome!
Fairly obvious why if you've read Day 1.
Other choice would also obviosuly been deer.
I chose jee over deer because jee seemed more experienced.

[Ellibereth]

Cop, I have an innocent on jee.
And TNM, withholding information?

The only thing I'm withholding is information that I think would benifit the mafia if they knew it...although they may have clued onto it already...and then again I could be wrong about it myself.

I'm dubious of this cop claim, but I think it at least warrants an unvote, seeing as you did supect Jee on day one.

Unvote

However, you could just as easily be lying and trying to clear your scum-buddy in the process.

I might be mistaken but I took it that there may be a possibility that there is no cop, if so this means that there may be no counter claim.

Ellie, you're going to have to prove this somehow, or at least be a little more convincing, otherwise I'm going to put my vote back on you.

How the hell am I suppose to prove it?
Why do you think it's dubious?
Be more convincing about what? If you want me to change the way I've been playing so far, I won't.

[Ellibereth]

Guys, we hit deadline in less a week btw.

Unvote, Vote Deer

He's shown consistent lack of scumhunting and a habit of only reacting to posts specifically directed toward him. The rare times he has questioned someone has been mimicries of previously asked questions.

I expect Sens to post more after his finals are over.

[Ellibereth]

You know its easy as hell to tell who you're talking about in #3

HOW THE HELL AM I SUPPOSE TO BACK MY CLAIM UP?

I've said several times I disliked Deer's lack of scumhunting and that's a massive scumtell.

Give me a concrete case of why you think jee and I are scum. What do you think about deer's complete lack of scumhunting and Sen's uber-tunneling?

Eh what? Why would you think that scum would get away with hammering the cop??

[Ellibereth]

All of you have failed in noticing my Sens comments, including Ellibereth who is currently being tunneled by him.

What do you both have to gain from lynching Deer right now? Where do we go from here if Deer is town?

TNM thinks Sens is the cop.
Sens said somewhere that exams were the reason he wasn't posting content, and I expect a real case against me this weekend. If his next post is more crap about the bussing then he's getting my vote.

You seriously think someone that has made no attempt to scumhunt and only post when someone directly suspects them could be town??

[Ellibereth]

I went back through the thread to see if there are any contradictions to this claim.

These are from Day 2, post 212-216, after Ellie has supposedly received an innocent on Jee.

jee wrote:
ALSO, if I were scum, why, out of anybody, would I choose AD to nightkill. AD's indecisive decisions would be a perfect accusation to push toward and get him mis-lynched. Why would I make it hard on myself and kill my 'top suspect'. I would then be required to fabricate another accusation on someone else.. It just doesn't make sense to me.


I'm not sure, but is this WIFOM or not?

I believe it is classified as WIFOM

Do you think using WIFOM is scummy?

I believe that both town and scum use it, and because of that, using WIFOM can be used as a case supporter for further incrimination, but not a sole reason for an accusation.

Do you think using bad logic is scummy?

Ellie, why would you bother purusing this line of questioning if you already know for a fact that Jee is innocent?

I wanted to see if he had the same line of reasoning about WIFOM as I did. Also, it never hurts to make it clear to yourself what other's positions are. Note that I didn't Fos/Vote him anywhere along the line.

For the record I feel WIFOM is a legitimate argument in some situations.

[Ellibereth]

I don't want you to give up suspicion on me, that would be playing bad mafia.
What I don't want you to say is that I'm "not even prepared to try and back-up this claim". I can't just magic something out of the air to prove I'm the cop ya know...

[Ellibereth]

You have a couple of questions from 311 you need to anwser.

[Ellibereth]

EBWOP: 319 was directed at TNM.

[Ellibereth]

You seriously think someone that has made no attempt to scumhunt and only post when someone directly suspects them could be town??

Yes. You should always hold the possibility that someone is town when you're a mislynch away from LyLo; overconfidence isn't going to help you here. And if Deer is town, we have nothing left. No real strong connections, no nothing.

If we lynch Sens, he most likely will flip scum. If this happens, we hit scum and don't have to worry about LyLo at all. If Sens flips town, we lynch you and hit scum next day. That way, the worst case scenario is that we end up in a 2 town 1 scum LyLo, which has chances that I like a lot better than a 3 town 2 scum scenario.

If Sens is town, why am I automatically scum?

[Ellibereth]

Lining up lynches is a scumtell IMO.

[Ellibereth]

Lining up lynches is a scumtell IMO.

If you think my lynching plan is a bad idea, speak up. Saying something's a scumtell doesn't make it so.

You missed 321 mate.
I'm calling it a day and going to bed..

[Ellibereth]

Sens has shown a clear willingness as scum to trade himself for a town power-role in past newbie games.

See this game: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9218

Anyway, I call total BS to his claim.

Unvote, Vote Sensfan

If I do go today, my bet is on a Sensfan, Deer scumpair.

[Ellibereth]

I don't care which of you die today.

Not a good attitude, you should try to preserve the real cop. Me.

[Ellibereth]

Not a good attitude, you should try to preserve the real cop. Me.

Why? If there's a mafia roleblocker, you'll be nothing more than a glorified vanilla. If there isn't, that means that there's no doctor to save you and you'll be killed in the night anyway.

If there is no doc then it would be the same, but with an rb, I would be an EXTRA glorified townie.

Lookie:

Lynch Senscum
NK (Fails if aimed at me, most likely kills someone else)
4 vs. 1, town vs. maf ratio in Day 3

Lynch Elli town
NK
Lynch Sensscum
NK

2 vs. 1 Lylo situation.

Which is better?

[Ellibereth]

Dead men tell no tales.

[Ellibereth]

Dead men tell no tales.

[Ellibereth]

Dead men tell no tales.

[Ellibereth]

Deadlines are full of win.