Mini 891 - British Comedy Mafia (Game Over)

[Budja]

vote: Locke

, you were scum in our last game, so clearly you must be scum here .

[Budja]

unvote, vote Fuzzy

for such a weak attempt at pushing a bandwagon on yourself .

[Budja]

Its null in itself.

But the fact that fuzzy immediantly defused it is a (very minor) scumtell.
Fuzzy's post 13 also makes me a little uncomfortable. The whole thing feels forced.

[Budja]

unvote, vote Josh

I endorse this bandwagon.

[Budja]

@Fuzzy

Additionally (for clarity), to me, anti-town != scummy

---

... my thinking was along the lines of "they've voted, now there's no more to talk about (or hear about from them)."

What are you trying to say here?

[Budja]

@Josh, you (no mindreading needed ).

[Budja]

ok.

1. The first statement was actually directed at fuzzy showing the flaw in his post. However I do agree with your expanded view on this.

2. This is what I thought you were trying to say and it strikes me as odd. Voting no-lynch is a mildly scummy action and would be a bit more likely to generate conversation that a random vote, not less likely.

Once someone votes (especially such a weird vote in RVS or a NL), this may tend to stifle discussion.

This implies that the RVS is bad in itself. (Which is wrong IMO)

[Budja]

@Snow, I like early wagons. What the big problem with it?
@Josh, why vote me?

I like Macavity's post 43.

Fuzzy is looking better now.

---
Additionally (to the rest of the case), Josh calls for prods (a little scummy, diverting attention).
---

Josh isn't handling the minor pressure on him very well so far. I think more votes on Josh is a good idea.

QFT

[Budja]

@Net, give me a better case then. Who is scummiest?

@Snow, my vote on fuzzy was only a bit better than a random vote. Josh's wagon is superior so I changed. I changed because I agreed with Macavity's case.

(Also, early wagons are good .)

@Snow, why do you think fuzzy voted for a no lynch?

[Budja]

I've said this before and I say it again: "early wagons are good".

Fuzzy's no lynch vote was an attempt (albeit weakly done) to leave the RVS. It looked obv. intentional and as such wasn't really a tell at all. This is the context Macavity is talking about (assumption, correct me if I am wrong).

Also:
My vote on Locke was obv. random.
My vote into Fuzzy's wagon was weak, but not random.
My vote into the wagon on Josh was not random at all.

[Budja]

@Macavity, glad were on the same page then.

@Snow Bunny, you are wrong . Until you have come up with a better point, I'm not going to bother defending myself now.

#2 is now BC.
You call out the early Josh wagon votes as opportunistic and then tack your vote onto the wagon. Thats quite hypocritical.

[Budja]

His contradiction on his stance regarding Fuzzy's vote ("a bit better than random" and "was weak, but not random")

"a bit better than random" = "was weak, but not random".
Further clarification: better than random means not random but not strong either.
My "opportunism" is misjudged, and since when is asking questions scummy?

(I know I said I wouldn't but I can't help myself).

B: really weigh who is the scummier.

Lets not narrow down our options here.

Budja's 83 misses BloodCovenant's point as I see it, which is not that all the votes on Josh are opportunistic, just that (BC thinks) Budja's one in particular is. It's not hypocritical for BC to think that Josh is scum and Budja might be bussing him, and to vote Josh.

Eh, true I guess.

[Budja]

@BC, what about Snow Bunny then? She was pretty sure the no-lynch vote was scummy.

@BC, the gambit was weakly played. I thought it plausible for it to be scum trying to look protown by leaving the RVS, without taking much risk. (Yes, a weak case)

[Budja]

@BC, I saw it as possibly scum attempting to perform a townie action, removing the risk early is a bit over-cautious.

[Budja]

I'd like Lyman to elaborate on his claim. (Run it by the mod first if you are unsure)

@Net,

Josh: Scummy <- initial uncertainty, AtE, call for prods.
Locke: "meta" scum read. (dexter mafia)
Net: "meta" town read. (ongoing unfortunately)
Snow Bunny: Mildly Town
Macavity: Town, agree with pretty much all he says
Snow_Bunny: null - mildly town. I obv. disagree with her reasoning but if Josh town -> Snow likely town IMO.
jasonT1981: no read
ConfidAnon: no read
Chinaman: uncertain, leaning newb-town. Still a bit of a opportunistic feel.
Fuzzyman: town
imaginality: leaning town
BloodCovenent: null

So yeah, a lot of town reads but that doesn't really concern me. It narrows down my search.

[Budja]

Your twice on my list due to bad editing . Just read the expanded one.
I don't particular want to expand further, I'd prefer to keep my views succinct. If theres anything in particular which bothers you, ask me.

What really matters IMO is who I think is scum. Josh's claim is vague and does nothing to change my mind. I await his further explanation.

@China, Josh is a pretty easy wagon to join, the fact Snow is instead pushing my, not so easy, wagon makes her more likely town. A bit WIFOMic I know, but my "gut" town read leans this way rather than the other.

[Budja]

So you are a one-shot ability to turn a player into a "treestump"?

Does you know if your ability gives an alignment flip?

[Budja]

Eh, I'm believing it. Net is right, it is odd for a fakeclaim.

I assumed their would be an alignment flip but it is better to ask.

If we use it we should probably use it on someone who's (a) smart, (b) under suspicion, (c) doesn't claim a power role. If it's a day power that would be better, easier to direct.

I like this ^.

BC's accusation is a bit hard to swallow .

[Budja]

^ Agreed. BC's objections are a bit too overdone from my liking.

unvote, vote BC

[Budja]

Why do you always vote immediately after someone else?

Because.

You are too much against Josh claim for my liking (I really doubt its fake) and I wasn't super keen on you before.
No, its not much but its a better spot for my vote.

[Budja]

BC's accusation is a bit hard to swallow .

^before your vote.

I'll admit that your vote did encourage me further to vote, but I was beginning to lean in that direction already.
(and Net, why so late to "call me out". I voted right at the top of the page, you know.)

[Budja]

1. It means I am not alone in my thinking.
2. It adds more pressure.

[Budja]

I disagree.

- A second vote is a lot more pressure than a single vote IMO. I don't see how you can think otherwise.
- Having people agree with my line of thought makes me more certain.

[Budja]

A stumped player is a dead man who can talk. So a treestumped scum is dead.

I agree that Net's suggestion is a bad idea.

...and thats about all I have to say there.

I'd really like ConfidAnon and Locke to chime in.

[Budja]

It still should be used as a vig IMO.
If we hit scum, sweet.
If we hit town, we still have their presence in thread.

[Budja]

I would think it was obvious.
By stumping someone, we essentially kill them. Killing scum > killing town.

[Budja]

@imaginality,

I played with Locke in Dexter Mafia and he had a very similar playstyle, generally only asking questions passively and lurking a lot.

[Budja]

...and this "treestump" debate has gone on for far too long.

The way I read it is that the targeted player is just as dead as if they'd been night-killed, except they can post. (Imagine a ruleset applying to that player alone which says, "After you die you can make unlimited 'bah' posts and these can contain content.")

This sums up what will in all certainty happen to a stumped player.

[Budja]

^ just lost quite a few town points.

There is a difference between healthy discussion and game-distracting, filler which has been solved ages ago.

Can we just kill BC or a lurker now ? I have enough town-reads to want to slice off some deadweight.

[Budja]

I'm going to throw my 1 OMIGUS card down right now.

Look where my vote is .

@Fuzzy, I was under the impression I had no town points.
I'll place second and third on our two lurkers ATM.

[Budja]

@Net, I'll admit I haven't pushed my own theories much but I have few scum reads which are already pushed (and many town ).

JL is prob town. China seems the only legit(ish) wagoner.

FoS Snow, Dana

BC or Locke are my scum picks. Dana as the outlier.

[Budja]

@Josh, rolename please. (Should have asked this ages ago ).

@Snow, FL is a a bastard Tar-like mod.
Josh is prob town. Can we stop the wagon now please.

@Macavity, Imaginality,
come join the BC wagon (or argue an alternative).

[Budja]

Semi-V/LA until the 26th

[Budja]

I can still post a bit.

Josh is still a bad lynch, Net is still right on that front.

I repeat my earlier request, can we not interested in a Josh wagon consolidate on BC or Locke. At this rate, he will be deadline lynched.

[Budja]

Glad to see the extension.

Can we please stop the Josh WIFOM now. Net is right above and Josh is still a bad lynch.

(Pointless post, I know but I'm waiting on Macavity and Co to show up.)

[Budja]

Damn that took you a long while to respond to BC .

I'll have to reread to answer your earlier questions.

Your quoted question was quite useless. I am not waited for someone else to vote before I strike. I just happen to agree with the original voter. I'll admit I haven't been great with making my own leads here.

I don't have much of a case on you but your the scummiest of those who don't fit into my list of townie's.

---

I will try to read up/post on the last few pages soon (within a day).

[Budja]

I am Rowan Atkinson, with no powers. (i.e a VT).

I have little to add. I have been lax with this game (and lax with mafia in general lately).

I think Macavity and Net are obv. town.
Locke, BC, dana are good scum picks.
BC is inconsistant (take his view on me for one), reaction to Josh's claim (not the only one guilty of this but the only one I actually felt was scummy (China's looks more tunnelvisioned)) and quite frankly is the only one active who really gives me "scum vibes".

[Budja]

Sorry, the back-and-forth about Josh killed a lot of my enthusiasm. If I'm still alive tomorrow, I dig around a little harder (which TBH wouldn't be hard).

[Budja]

The Mason claim was horribly timed.
@China,
1. Are you and your partner confirmed town to each other? (v. important to know now)
2 Why claim?

Touchy ground here, but I suspect China misunderstood some role PM wording.
I have nothing but my vote and I am VT.

@Net, I don't see it. China's action was bad but I don't see any fishing. Your reaction claim was anti-town.

[Budja]

I agree that you do not out your partner.

[Budja]

His partner can claim on his death if they are confirmed to each other. No reason at all for a claim today.

[Budja]

I doubt it. I see no advantage for scum to pull such a move. No-one was attacking him.

[Budja]

re. BC.

you went to null in my post 11 after Imag. brought up a point.
---
I voted BC for his initial attack on Lyman after the claim (yes, it was after Net).
BC votes me back (implied its for opportunism).
BC says "not much on me".
Joins it with the pointless Josh WIFOM (not scummy but useless)
Attacks me again for points looked at a long, long time ago and

after

he says there is "not much on me".

So useless posting [/hypocrite] and his pushes on Josh and myself seem to follow the general trend rather than his opinion (see above).
(...and a giant bucket-load of gut. Quite frankly he is the only one who is really active and scummy. I don't have a case beyond gut and meta on Locke, but I think he is lurker-scum.)

[Budja]

Look, China's partner can claim when they consider it best. They may not wait until LyLo.
Also China isn't guaranteed by any means to die tonight.

Let the masons sort that out.

@Snow, what about Fuzzy's reaction?

[Budja]

I believe he was suggesting no VT's at all. He did say he disbelieved my claim because I had no powers.

[Budja]

I don't believe his claim at being town and being purely without anything useful.

^ what's this then?

[Budja]

I can see the point of the claim to save from a stumping but the whole vanilla thing is mod WIFOM. Doc, Cop are never guaranteed.

Basically...

....You're a loony.

Net is not scum either. Scum would have hammered me and not attacked the mason.

@Imag, ML, if you really don't think I'm scum, help me lynch BC.

[Budja]

No he wouldn't. The hammer vote is not auto-scum just because I'm town.
It doesn't guarantee him town, but it gives him a town read.

[Budja]

am force-replacing Locke Lamora
prodded danakillsu

^ Macavity.

@Death, why, from your perspective, is failing to hammer a town tell?

[Budja]

China, not all mini-themes do. This theme may just be a normal game with flavour for all we know. It may have lots of PR's, it may have few PR's. We just don't know.

My claim also reduces that chances of them hitting a Doc or Cop

Nope, your claim (and mine and Net's) have only narrowed their field.

If I were scum, there is no way I would have claimed VT. [/WIFOM]

As far as I can tell, I was about to be lynched and no-one was posting otherwise. I expected to be hammered. It was not early, if not for your claim I'd probably be dead and I doubt anyone would say it was an early hammer.

@Macavity, then why no vote. Its all very nice of you not to think I'm scum and all but it would really be nice to have a bit of counter-wagonning rather than cruise to a deadline lynch.

[Budja]

Well duh, only I know my alignment. Thats why I asked Death that question.

[Budja]

Eh, a snow bunny lynch isn't bad but I have nothing on her save a little gut.

BC, Locke and Fuzzy (his attack on China was scummy) are better IMO.

unvote, vote Snow

, I would gladly switch to lynch the above if anyone is interested.

[Budja]

Sheesh, read my reasoning Death. I'd rather lynch scum today than die.
If that attitude is opportunistic, then yes I am but I disagree.

Now answer my question.

[Budja]

If you really think China is scum, get his partner to claim before LyLo but certainly not day 1.

In the meantime, he might die, his partner might die, he may be investigated/tracked/etc.
He is a bad lynch.

@Fuzzy, well not to be negative but its looking pretty likely to me.

[Budja]

Once more, they are both town.
I can't say this enough.

[Budja]

Then why vote Net then, eh?

[Budja]

Don't steal my question .

Still waiting on your answer to my other question Deathsauce BTW.

[Budja]

Nope, Net is right. They are both obv. town.
Lyman is prob town and imaginality is only mildly town slipping towards null.

[Budja]

About time.

@Net, why?

[Budja]

Feh, only for a couple of days.
I'd like a BC lynch if you'd switch to that (or Locke).

[Budja]

@BC, you got a case on me?

Case on Locke is meta/lurking.
Case on you is a couple of pages back. Feel free to self-vote .

[Budja]

Nice.

@Net, can you be convinced to join this new wagon?

@kikuchiyo, welcome!

[Budja]

My current position: I'd switch to a BC wagon if there's enough interest that we can get a lynch. Otherwise I will stick with Snow_Bunny but willing to hammer Budja at deadline if it's that or no-lynch.

^This.

[Budja]

unvote, vote BC

[Budja]

Well, are we lynching BC or not. 2.5 days to go.
It nice to be defended and all, but remember we've got to get a lynch down soon.

[Budja]

Please don't.

Can kikuchiyo, Netopalis, danakillsu, Chinaman choose a wagon please (preferably BC ).
~34hrs to go.

[Budja]

Great minds think alike .

I'm not going to flip scum and I say now that I have a reasonable town read on both of them.

Mac didn't lie . Read properly.
---
Kik has not said anything yet despite posting elsewhere. If BC is scum, Kik is a good partner choice.

[Budja]

Why would a townie defend someone else?

Cos your attack was very wrong.

If you're town Budja, and VT at that, how the hell do you know who is and isn't town.

By scumhunting and getting town reads.

I could continue but basically everything you say is wrong.

Here are the reads I am most confident with:
You are town (but a "little" off on your reads)
Net is town.
Imag/ML are prob town.
---
Locke/Kik is leaning scum.
BC is scum.

[Budja]

You are crazy.
You are also very likely to be town.

[Budja]

Because scum can easily choose to not post/stall making their choice until deadline.
Kik has had time to post and has failed to do so. Also I had gut/meta scum on Locke.

If you care to read me ISO, I'm sure you can find my case. Its a bit muddled but easily stronger than your "attack".

[Budja]

We have 11 hours. Its BC or me today, regardness whether you find someone else scummier, finish reading/skimming and choose before it hits.

[Budja]

We only have 8 hours China. Don't be unreasonable.

[Budja]

I'd *like* you to vote for BC, but if you want me lynched I'm surprised your asking such a question.

[Budja]

@BC, I am playing nothing like that game IMO.

[Budja]

Oh bugger.

unvote

I would get irritated at you for claiming but it probably wasn't a bad thing to do at this stage.

Stumping: Kik would be ok as would any of our lurkers.

Good luck!

[Budja]

China is still crazy.
I am still town.
GL.

vote Budja

[Budja]

I knew it!