Newbie 906 - Game Over!

[Skill006]

/confirm
Another game with RayFrost...

[Skill006]

@ Skill - Why yes indeed, another game with me. This time, I'm town,

I don't know if i wanna believe that XD

how about you?

yes, i am town, it is much more disappointing than getting that cop pm

For those of you who don't already have one, an avatar would be nice. Hard to remeber people by their names alone

[Skill006]

jmurph3, where are thee?

hah, I knew pranadevil wouldn't be the only one making bad jokes

i don't know if I'm allowed to be making all of these posts before the game even started, I just wanted a headstart against Ray ^_^

do mods automatically assume you want to be in another game, ray? they're just like "oh, my game needs another SE, I'll just pop Ray in"

[Skill006]

yay, you got an avatar! (never heard of dick devil, but it works!)

Mine's Youmu from Touhou. The pic was a gift from the mafia manipulator.

Actually, ray, i like your old avatar better. It siuted you (well, it siuted your name)

[Skill006]

Aha, I have been waiting for this!

vote: RayFrost

You asked me a question, if I was town or not, I suppose in a friendly gesture. However, it seemed like the true purpose of your question was to find out if I had a power role or not.

You knew I was cop last game, so I was likely to compare my present role to my previous role. You even went as far as to cover your role fishing with playful joke stuff, so people wouldn't notice.
And you even put that I shouldn't say "I am not cop", to make your intentions less conspicious.

[/quote]

[Skill006]

@ Skill006 - Are you as good as James Bond (007) at taking down bad guys?

Nope. I stink at taking down bad guys, even when I know their alignment.

[Skill006]

@ Skill006 - Are you as good as James Bond (007) at taking down bad guys?

Nope. I stink at taking down bad guys, even when I know their alignment.

^--- can't make good cases / doesn't know when NOT to counterclaim.

This is true. Not encouraging, but true XD

[Skill006]

Oh man. This is gonna be a rough game. Everyone is so intelligent. Oh well, 'least everyone has big avatars and good grammar. ^_^

apathy has good logic for just one post. I would point out that he's tunneling Ray (as i think fuzzy pointed out) if it weren't for the fact that I was too so...

fuzzylightning disturbed me when he contradicted himself in playstyle:

while others may have a high volume of posts to clutter up the thread and discourage people from trying to figure out what they are saying

While you don't have a high volume of posts, your posts are so blocked together that it's scary to look at and I'm...well, discouraged to read it (although, i did read all of your posts through because I'm considerate like that ).

I dunno if anyone else feels that way, and I'm pretty sure it's just writing style (after all, everything you say is useful), but it's a bit hard to get through your stuff. My recommendation is to break it up a bit so people can read it, although if you don't want to that's fine.

Now for my actual read on you- You have been posting a considerable amount of information, but most of it is game theory and the like. When it's not, it's asking questions. While its good to ask questions, you just keep asking them, even after you get answers. When you get other people to open up about their case, it's easier to attack them.

It's kind of a mix of gut, a mix of posting style, but:

vote:fuzzylightning

[Skill006]

As an honestly confused person, is stating that I'm town role-claiming? When I've played, claiming an important role (i.e. cop, doctor, etc.) was frowned upon, but saying you're town is a valid defense.

Just want to know so I don't make the same mistakes in the future.

"townie" is a role.

So you saying "I'm a townie" is saying that you are vanilla town, as in not a power role.

If you are, in fact, a townie, you should not claim cop/doctor, but you shouldn't be claiming at all at this point.

Saying you are town is about as good a defense as saying "but u guys should trust me because I say so," which isn't very convincing.

You! quit trying to make it seem like people have claimed or not claimed. I don't think anyone has claimed anything yet. You're so worried about everybody's roles, it's making you look scummy.

[Skill006]

aaaaaand I love how the defense I put forth is ignored by skillz0r, which means skillzzzz isn't reading the entire thread or didn't think that the defense was worthwhile but is too lazy to say that.

No my attack was not really an attack, it was a failed attempt to get a game going that was already going, I didn't really believe much in that case. >.> He's gonna call me scummy, now

[Skill006]

You! quit trying to make it seem like people have claimed or not claimed. I don't think anyone has claimed anything yet. You're so worried about everybody's roles, it's making you look scummy.

Yah, sorry, I just don't like seeing

claims

happening prematurely.

TOWNIE is a common term for VT, so my thinking that was a claim is perfectly logical.

I feel that things like that will grate on my nerves, so I figure out why, and I realize it's because it

seems like a claim because many claims are worded almost exactly the same

, which makes me go into the lesson of don't claim prematurely.

well...ok. dat makes sense.
it didn't even seem like a specific claim, though. town, townie, there's no difference to someone who hasn't played 5000+ games.

[Skill006]

I've only finished around 30.

O_O; That's prob. more than our actual IC...I don't understand why you be an SE. You seem more than confident enough in your ability.

[Skill006]

I've only finished around 30.

O_O; That's prob. more than our actual IC...I don't understand why you be an SE. You seem more than confident enough in your ability.

my ability to play mafia != my ability to teach newbies / be patient / not get annoyed / etc

Gotcha. Well, not much action now, and I'm taking the game away from the thread soooo... Good Night, everyone ^_^

[Skill006]

Whew, the weekend!

@fuzzy: Alrighty, I get your playstyle, it makes sense enough. As for this bit:

As such, I don't believe that I have asked the same question to a single player more than once.

I didn't mean that you were repaeting your questions. You aren't. I just meant that, after asking one question, you would ask another after that one instead of really giving much feedback (although when I take a better look, you are stating your beliefs, sooo..). You explained yourself fine here though:

Every one of my questions helps me to decide whether or not I believe a person to be town or not, and that is how I scumhunt. By getting people to open up about their case, I can see if their case holds water, or if it is just a sinking ship, which also helps me determine how strongly they believe something.

so anyway, I don't know why I placed a vote on you, it was kinda hasty.

unvote

Apathy, I know what you mean about repeating stuff until it gets ingrained, but I think they were jokes that were going to be ignored anyway. Whether our eyes pass over it or not, it probably wouldn't make anyone assume he is town, in fact it turns people against him.
The rest of your case is good. But I don't think Ray is scum.

[Skill006]

I'm back (again!), and this time things are rather tense. Oh, and welcome Jammer! Are you an SE? (i saw your status was mafia scum, so). I just wanted to reply to this right off the bat since I saw it first:

Noone is going to hammer, yet. The "don't lynch continue discussion, we got 3 weeks." argument is rubbish, it stalls the game, if there is a majority ready to lynch someone, a lynch should happen.

I disagree w/ this. Although it makes it harder to look through the thread amidst the clutter, if we're careful, more discussion helps town. There have been a heap of people (including myself) who have not posted yet, and it would be unfair to those people to lynch now. And on the note, "it gives scum a chance to dig themselves out of their holes", it also gives scum a chance to screw up. It's just safer and better for us to discuss more.

For the sake of expanding skill, why don't you think Ray is scum?

Overall he seems scummy to me, but some things could be explained with meta. So anyone who played with him before, I'm talking to you PE and skill. Could you say if his play at the start of this game is consistent with how you've played in earlier games?

It's his playstyle, IMO. Honestly, whether he is scum or town, he plays defensively. However, I don't like how he is discrediting prana's arguments.

flattering him through imitation ...

when did I imitate him

Skill006: Obviously infatuated with Ray and his swashbuckling ways, flattering him through imitation ... and likely to be totally blind to any faults he may display. I hope they're on the same side or our little drama could turn out to be a tragedy. She seems much too sincere to be leading a double life.

I tend to feel bad for the people who are being attacked, which tends to be RayFrost. And he was the only one I recognized @ the start, so i appeared "infatuated", I guess.

I don't like how apathy has virtually only posted twice. Despite all the beef on them, it seems like he is actively lurking. He could be masking his actions by huge posts.

prana, I believe, is town with a totally diff view of how to play/read into things than others. But he really needs to look at other players right now, trying to lynch somebody so soon, when other people have hardly spoken is not a wise course of action. There's no need to be rash.

I will post more tonight, I was typing this while I was supposed to be doing math ^.^;

[Skill006]

@prana: did you see my post? You don't have to call it "stalling" btw, it's not as if it's set in stone that ray is gonna be lynched.
fuzzy and apathy haven't come back. They have no say in the matter? Maybe if you give them a chance, they can convince people to switch votes, etc. Or they may look scummier than ray, who knows.

[Skill006]

Sorry skill, I hadn't seen your post when I posted. Had planned to hit preview and wound up misclicking and hitting submit, lol.

s'ok ^_^

You say I have a different view on how to play/read into things, but I don't really see that, people have actively agreed with some of my views, and you, yourself, have said you don't like how Ray's discrediting my points.

It's not your points or views, just your line of thinking as a town player (assuming you are town). The best example was the eagerness to lynch. Usually town want to wait to lynch somebody, and get more discussion going. With more discussion, you can here what all the town members have to say, where everyone stands, and feel more unified as a town.

However it could also be that he just doesn't get much chance to post and thus does so in a big post when able.

that's why I'm waiting for him to post. It seems like that may be the case.

As for Apathy and fuzzy having a say, Apathy already has pretty much, even before it got heated he was voting Ray, so really it's more fuzzy we're waiting for, and while there's some possibility on him, it's not strong.

apathy might want to change his vote.

[Skill006]

I do feel that lots of discussion doesn't help us though, for the reasons jammer posted, but then different people have different views on it, I've seen as much reading through various games where people have wanted to keep discussion going and stated that's a benefit, and others where people wanted to only say anything relevant once out of the RVS to keep from giving scum too much information as well. I guess it depends on playstyles in that sense.

But the game is supposed to be about discussion. Lots of it won't kill us to read. Maybe you put too little faith in your future self, and feel scum will be able to cover their tracks. But it's not as if scum will brainwash us if we don't squish them as soon as we can.
And if we keep lynching someone as soon as we find them scummy, we don't consider that other people can just slip under your skin by agreeing with you. While you're so focused on Ray, you're not really fingering redbox and jmurph's posts, and they can hide under your shadow. Besides, the less townies we can avoid lynching, the better.

[Skill006]

Ok, about RayFrost, like I said: I was just making up a random vote, and only partly believed my case. It was still during the RVS, so I didn't consider it to be an "actual case," if you will.

The thing with fuzzy: The vote on fuzzy was because I had nothing else, and I don't like to be not voting for anyone (even though I have been for the majority of this game). I did like my case on him, but it was weak and I realized that when he explained it to me. I'm not a very offensive person, so my cases are usually trash. But when I noticed he was only posting game theory posts and asking oodles of questions without much input of his own, I posted my opinion about it and THEN realized the motive behind it. After his post I realized I should've waited for his reaction/response and then put a vote, but yeah.

However, on this note:

What accusations that you have made do you have any faith in?

He hasn't responded to me pointing out his confusion. (to go over the case again for those who forgot, he said that I accused him of him repeating questions, and I tried to clear up that he has been asking questions even after he got answers) Other than that... Guess he cleared up all of my initial suspicions. Oh, and don't get me wrong-there is nothing wrong with asking questions as a form of scumhunting. In fact, I think it's one of the better ways to scumhunt. @ the time, though, I felt all he was doing was asking questions while not inputting anything of his own or giving feedback to the answers.

I know she thinks Ray is town, but I'm not sure as to why either.

mmmm...not so much that I think he's town, I just don't think he's scummy for the reasoning put against him. I'd rather focus my attention on other people right now, tbh.

As for this bit:

However, I have no idea where her thoughts lie at all.

I am most suspicious of apathy (until he responds) and redbox

redbox because he was easily able to slip under prana and jmurph's skin. Prana and jmurph are two of the more active players (or were the more active ones while he was around), so if he just nodded and agreed w/ them there wouldn't be as much heat on him. Plus, he would get to put someone at l-1.

Ok, that'll do for now. I may not be around tomorrow, so go town! And please don't hammer anybody recklessly, it chops town up.

[Skill006]

don't like how my post ended up in front of yours. looks out of order. -.-;

Well, since I have been granted a few minutes, I'll explain my read on Ray.

I don't think he is scum based off of given reasons. (by mainly prana, might I add). That doesn't mean I think he is town (if I said that, sorry, I didn't mean it. At this point, no one is really town to me except myself)

His dicrediting of prana's points is something he did in the last game (where he was mafia) when he wanted to defend himself, and at the same time, try and make the voter seem like he doesn't know what he is doing. It kinda makes him look scummy, but all things considered, he could just be frustrated. Still, I don't like how some of his defenses are more of "your point stinks" rather than an adequate defense.

[Skill006]

Oh, and I really don't know what my read on him is. I could believe he is scum, but I could see how he is town, too. He has town-motivated actions, but he goes about it in a scummy way.

[Skill006]

Hmm, I still have some time. Ok, just to show that I'm not absolutely opposed to questions (as my attack on fuzzy may have implied), I will ask some questions.

First, I will ask myself a couple questions (it's only polite):
What is your opinion on the argument going back and forth between Ray and Prana? (as well as a bit of jmurph and redbox, can't forget them)

Skill: Well, for one thing, I would like to point out that the debate over this:

jmurph3: Even though I don't get the case fuzzy seems to have made for some of you, the lack of real content in her posts leads me to feel she may have something to hide and doesn't quite know how to go about it. My guess is she is inexperienced scum with a partner advising her not to say too much while the partner takes the heat.

is just plain silly, and somebody was taking it out as far as they could. There was one misunderstanding:

Redbox's stuff about jmurph is a direct implication that I'm jmurphs scumbuddy. Contrast this with his supposed read on me below.

and then a whole bunch of pointless arguing over that. Or call it misreprsentation, whatever. I still think it was a weak case. And it was one of redbox's only reasons for voting Ray.

Um, I don't have as much time as I thought I did, so that'll be it on that for now, if anyone's curious to hear more (which I somehow doubt) I will gladly state everything else. For now, quick questions:

@prana: if ray flips town tomorrow, where will you go?

@jmurph, redbox, and apathy: do you have any other suspicions other than ray?

Ok, i'm increative, so I can't think of anymore questions but i will be back in a couple of days to ask more, this time i really have to go.

[Skill006]

Hello! I wasn't as busy as I suspected today, and I might have a snow day tomorrow (chances are slim, but I'm hoping XD), so my activity level will -hopefully- increase.

Umm, to reply to prana's post:

Actually Skill, that debate over that issue was part of it, sure, but not all of it.

Yeah I know, but I didn't have a heck of a lot of time last night, I was typing that while I was supposed to be doing English/Math hw, forgive the laziness to give feedback on the whole of it. If you want though, I'll give a better shot, I'm just not sure if it's totally worth it (seeing as how I only skimmed throught the bulk of the argument).

I also would point out that the debate raged because Ray took it as meaning him, when there was no indication of that whatsoever.

I could actually see where Ray was coming from when he thought redbox was implying he was scum buddies w/ jmurph. But, tbh it was odd when ray kept trying to argue that he was right as if ray himself wrote the post. Of course there are going to be misunderstandings, but since he argued it out so much, it seems like he was trying to convince somebody that redbox was jumping to conclusions.

But, redbox should've just explained what he meant instead of vote for it, IMO. That was one of his only reasons to vote. If it was a misunderstanding about

his

post, he should explain what he meant, not vote as "misrepresentation".

I got a bit of scum on PE, the "don't lynch guys, we must discuss" seems something to fake sounding townish.

I disagree, but I also don't want to defend for him (want the excuse to answer for himself).

Urg, this is going out of order, but:

I would say jammer, but that would be based off kelyn's previous appearance of seemingly noob questions, but yet has been playing it (albiet in real life) previously, but now we have a new player it's worth seeing where things go for now.

I don't think that kelyn's "appearance of seeming noob" was any kind of defense for himself. He wanted to let everyone know what his type of experience was for the forum game, and that was none. We can't really be the judge of his experience, as playing a game outside of this one could make you worse at this game, who knows (well, I don't). It's not much of a scumtell, IMO.

I'll get another post in shortly.

[Skill006]

Sorry, I missed this bit:

Next she lowers our expectations of her when she answers kelyn's question of whether or not she considers herself a good scumhunter. This is fine, but I have no idea why she re-affirms this when RayFrost comments on it.

Is this a scumtell? I'm just wondering, because I don't want my lack of confidence to confirm any suspicions. The explanation for this is, well, lack of confidence as a player in general, joking around a bit (as I really did bad on my first/most recent game), and letting everyone know that they shouldn't expect much from me.

I will try not to use this as a defense for anything. Just saying. If I already did, well, it's my first nature to make up excuses

[Skill006]

Hello, this'll prob. be my last post tonight.

To everyone who has said they are off to bed, it really isn't necessary, we know that there are times when people need to sleep, and posting that you are going to bed is something that I don't believe we need to know.

Sorry about this, I tend to write too much frufru stuff. You don't mind if I write this in my actual posts though, do you? I know it's a little much when there's a seperate post for it, but I still like writing that stuff.

Skill: I am now confused that you thought I was confused. I ask questions all game, its how I glean information from people. The answers to my questions often bring up follow up questions which are often the direct result of an answer and therefore, analysis of the answer isn't prudent. I don't like to bring forth information unless I am making a legitimate case against someone, or if it is directly asked of me.

Well, it only stood out as a little suspicious. And now that you've cleared up what the motive was behind asking questions after questions was, it really isn't a suspicion anymore.

Also, Skill, you say you skimmed over it and haven't properly looked into the issue, I have to ask why? The issue between me and Ray was rather a big one as far as D1 games are concerned, and something that all players should be looking at to get a read on both me and Ray, skimming over it, and not properly reading both players posts makes it seem like you feel you don't need to for whatever reason, and surely the only people who don't need a read off everyone would be scum?

"Skimmed" wasn't the right word. I read every single one of the posts. But its hard to get my thoughts straight on all of it.

[Skill006]

No snow day, which means I had school. Can you believe it, school when there's a blizzard outside!

Alrighty, first order of business-adress all points directed towards me:

...It makes me think she's just waiting for a half decent bandwagon to join in with.

I don't jump on bandwagons, period. Even when I know the victim is scum (yeah, I know, real smart). Well, I guess you wouldn't know this.

The people I'm most suspicious of are the people who aren't around right now (apathy, redbox). In response to this:

Bad thing is that she doesn't make a stance, got no serious votes.

The people I would vote for, who are apathy and redbox, aren't around right now to respond to all the attacks. I'd rather vote them

after

I hear what they say.

...doing a ISO I noticed how passive she is in the game with making cases and voting.

Is being passive necessarily bad?

[Skill006]

Hold on! I'm here, I'm getting a post up (taking like an hour to write, I'm so slow)

[Skill006]

the aliens were from venus, actually.
they thought i was one of them.
Aggh, getting distracted! Don't wait for me, btw, this post isn't worth waiting for...

[Skill006]

hello, Phaen. Must be rough replacing, many of the posts are pretty lengthy. Seeing as how it is rough, I would like to give you time to read through everything and post your reactions, so I'll hold off on comments/questions for your post (for now).

Skill, do you have any idea who the mafia is?

Sorry, I totally missed this @_@

Hmm...I'm actually having a really tough time deciding who is scum and who is not. With that said, I would have to aim suspicion at people who haven't been scum-hunting as much.

Non scum-hunters:
-redbox/phaen(not her fault yet, though)
-jmurph(voting and agreeing, not really scum-hunting)
-skill006(not that I am suspicious of myself, just, ye know)

redbox

's posts still seem pretty scummy to me, but I'm starting to get some doubts...I want to hold off on my read for just a little longer.

jmurph

's opinions/playstyle/defenses are easily swayed by many of the people who attack her. She also seems unsure of how to scumhunt. I could see her being newb scum, who needs a BW to jump on.
For now:

FoS:jmurph

Question

: Now that your argument on RayFrsot is dead, who do you find most suspicious? And how are you going to defend yourself against the 3 people voting you?

I've since changed my opinion on

fuzzylightning

. It took a little while, but I think I understand his way of scum hunting. All the same. Still, it's not very helpful when we don't know what's going through his mind (we know he's suspicious of jmurph).

Question

: Is there anyone else you are suspicious of, fuzzy, besides jmurph?

RayFrost

has picked up a spear and is basically stabbing everyone's cases against him. Its almost as if he wants his attackers to look like scum who don't know what they are talking about.

Paltryexcuse

I'm not sure of your read on redbox. When you said this:

The part that has me concerned is the sudden 'everybody finds him scummy'.
RayFrost and Skill were the first two to find him suspicious, and really don't constitute jumping on this nearly voteless bandwagon.
However, after Skill makes her comment on finding redbox scummy:
Prana, jmurph and fuzzy all chime in soon after with scummy reads on redbox as well.
Skill's post was 259, while Fuzzy was the last one on post 281. In 22 posts, Redbox = universally found scummy. Suspicious = yes. (Though obviously not all 3 could be scum.)
Plus, of the 5 who expressed this view, 3 are on my top 3 scum list. It's just negative feelings all round and gives me more of a town read on redbox.
The only person who had a post during this small stretch and didn't point at redbox was jammer. For me, I just went to sleep and redbox was found scummy by nearly all.

You said you thought that this might make him town, but its possible that his scum buddy is non violently agreeing with the crowd (after all, there is only one vote on him). What is your read on him?

=.= uhh...too much hw nagging at me to write any more...already spent 4 hours pondering over this post...and sorry to make you all wait for this thingy...

[Skill006]

You are always worth waiting for, sugar.

So you can make fun of me XD

[Skill006]

0_0 Apathy lives! (go ahead and take your time catching up, by the way, as it is alot of material to consider, however please try not to dawdle too much as there are alot of players we aren't able to get a read on because of replacements/RL issues, such as yourself)

...everyone else is leaves as soon as he comes back...*sigh...

Oh and dooooooon't wait up for me, please.
I'll catch up to you guys before you know it.

And its a good thing you're optimistic about it, or we would get nowhere! ^_^

ooh, and a question all for me!

Question for Skill: in Post #145 which attack were you referring to? The one on Ray or the one on fuzzy? Its not exactly clear to me.

I was referring to my attack on ray. I think I quoted it in the post, but I don't blame you for missing it (I usually don't look at the quotes for some reason).

Just to clear it up, I did believe in my attack on fuzzy somewhat, but as you could prob. tell I wasn't 100% confident on it. I felt it was something scummy I had picked out, but he refuted it clearly enough and I understand what I thought was scummy was a total difference in playstyle.

[Skill006]

I was gone for the weekend because I was too far away from the computer. I apologize for making this game so slow (or at least helping it become slow).

Ok jammer, so your vote is on fuzzy. I took a look at your reasoning:

fuzzy: I see a lot of questions,

and a lack of analysis.

I got the idea his posts are filled with questions towards others and a lot of

text that to me they seem like a useless filler.

My interpretation is scum, that does a act on finding scum. I see rather little if any in his posts that would help me in finding scum.

The case on jmurph started weak, that's not bad as it was rather early in-game.

The problem I more have with it, that when he is referring to jmurph, and reasons for voting her, as bad town, and not so much as possible scum.

I also don't like the contradiction, putting a FoS on prana for attacking RF, and later calling it town vs. town fight.

(All the

violet

statements are his actual points)

The lack of analysis was explained by fuzzy. But, it doesn't hurt for someone else to explain it: he doesn't like giving answers to scum, or giving them hints as to who/what to attack/feel about. It's a difference in playstyle.

The "useless filler" part isn't really strong, IMO. Although a lot of his posts seem like blocks that no one wants to read, they are helpful for newbies, and fuzzy was just trying to help some of us out with some advice.

On your 3rd point, how is fuzzy "acting" as a scum-hunter? I see him asking questions and stating his suspicions (minimally, but it's still there).

I'm just totally confused on your [2nd to] last point. Do you think you could elaborate? (so there's no confusion, I'm talking about this one:

The problem I more have with it, that when he is referring to jmurph, and reasons for voting her, as bad town, and not so much as possible scum.

If you're saying what I think you're saying, fuzzy never said he thought jmurph was "bad town".

I'll post part 2 a little later, I have a dinner to be eatin'.

[Skill006]

Part 2:

jmurph3:
Lot of useless talking in the start.
A OMGUS on one of her voters.
Did not defend herself because she thought defending yourself seems scummy.

Followed Apathy vote on RayFrost.(I think she decently explained later why she did, though.)

Lynching Ray, and looking at redbox if Frost flips town, looks really really bad.

here are thy reasons.

Her "useless talking" isn't really scummy. It's hard to get right into a game from the RVS. Even after the RVS is over, its difficult getting the swing of scumhunting and how to do it.


Your point on her OMGUS vote was backed up (if you're talking about paltry's vote), as paltry really hadn't said much at the time. He went off of fuzzy's reasoning for that.


3rd point- wut? I don't get it; when did she say she thought defending herself seemed scummy? (I looked back and couldn't find anything remotely like this; post #s, or at least a page #, or even a quote would help ^_^)

I'll answer the last portion in my next post, because I don't want just jammer to get attacked for this. I didn't look at that argument in depth before, and I didn't realize something very odd...

[Skill006]

Ah, thank you. That helps.
Ahem...

Did not defend herself because she thought defending yourself seems scummy.

I can see where you're coming from then, but at the same time, Ray was being attacked for being overdefensive. One does not want to make the same mistakes as another who is being attacked, so...

[Skill006]

...This:

To me, this only adds to the suspicion mounting on redbox, and while it's not enough yet for me to switch off of Ray, it is enough for me to think that he's prime suspect if Ray flips town.

...Got blown up a lot more than it should have been. How is this scummy? How is this "setting up lynches?" I know there's a lot less steam then there was on this before, but I just wanted to bring it back up because so many people followed this case and I really can't understand why.

So, basically, you are setting up lynches.

consider the following sequence...

ray flips town (I will)

go after redbox

redbox flips town

scum-jmurph would loooooveeee this.

setting up lynches like this is scummy.

...No. You're assuming that is what jmurph said/implied, and trying to use it as an attack.

And what you literally say isn't always what you actually say.

First of all, what is the difference? actually=literally, right? More importantly, she explained what she meant in that she was

not

trying to set up a lynch, but that she thought if her initial ray suspicions went down the drain/ were, byt the mod, proven wrong, then her "prime suspect" would then shift to redbox.

...'noted is jmurph's attempt to incite a blow up / discredit me without actually putting up a real defense'...

Him being stubborn and, well, discrediting jmurph...

You basically say 'u r putting words in mah mouth! u is scum!' as your defense (I did it in a patronizing way for emphasis).

It's less what you say than how you say it.

Keep this kind of distinction in mind.

prime suspect / most likely lynch target, same diff.

Last I checked, putting words in someone's mouth is scummy.

prime suspect=|=most likely lynch target.
You don't have to lynch your prime suspect. The prime suspect would be put under suspicion, not lynched automatically as you seem to be implying.

The fact that she

pretty much

said "We lynch Ray, then we lynch redbox" came across extremely scummy, and made me consider whether redbox is scum or not, as if jmurph is, then it would be pretty strange to be pre-arranging to lynch her scum partner as if we lynched Ray, then went after redbox, and she tried backpedalling then, it would be a huge red flag.

... Your reasoning is also assuming, and misinterpreting, what jmurph said. The "pretty much" does not mean she

did

say that. She never said "we should lynch one then the other", she said "redbox will be

prime suspect

if ray is lynched."

Not sure why other people (fuzzy, jammer) followed this, too. Seriously, this was a pointless argument that doesn't prove anyone is scum.

So, now that I have rebutted

that

point to the best of my ability...
well, jammer needs to post really soon.

[Skill006]

skill's posting is very restricted in what it covers.

GIVE A STANCE ON WHAT IS GOING ON ALREADY!

It was "restricted" because I was laying out a case against jammer, not everyone. And I'm really sorry about my slow movement in the game. I'll post more if I get the chance, but unfortunately it took me long enough to get that post up and I have a ton of math to do. I'll give some of my suspicions, so that I don't completely neglect my comittment, but I'll have to back it up later ^_^;;

Mafia

jammer
phaen/redbox (more redbox)
|
fuzzylightning
apathy
|
RayFrost
pranadevil
jmurph

uhh, yeah...I think this is how I pictured it...

Sorry, I suck at this game AND I haven't been posting...but I have to go suck at life now.

[Skill006]

EBWOP Paltry should be tacked on the bottom of that list, by the way.
(ok, so the last post was prob. useless, but I reelly, reelly don't have a lot of time right now). I know, its frustrating when we're all not here, but I'm trying... and I will see you all tomorrow.

[Skill006]

... a letter count? How did you do that? (More importantly, how am I

not

on there? XD)

~~~~

jammer, you're either misinterpreting what jmurph said, or misrepresenting it (ahh, those 2 words look too much alike XD)

Wants to lynch Ray, as she votes him.
She

(only)

gets suspicious on redbox if Ray flips town. (quote pretty much said that)

First of all, quote did

not

pretty much say that. And she's not trying to imply she's

only

going to get suspicious of him if ray is lynched. Here:

To me, this only adds to the suspicion mounting on redbox, and while it's not enough yet for me to switch off of Ray, it is enough for me to think that he's prime suspect if Ray flips town.

She clearly means that Ray is the top suspect now (or she did, anyway). If he is proven town once he flips, redbox would be her prime suspect. I don't think she meant them to correlate in any way, if that's what you're saying.

Think of it this way; if Ray was not in this game she would've targeted Redbox (of course, I'm speaking theoretically).

It seems

she wants to close the door this day for a redbox lynch, and will open it completely if Ray is lynched as town.I believe Ray started suspecting redbox, jmurph listing redbox as a second suspect seems strange. Why mention that you would suspect redbox most if Ray gets lynched

and

flips town. You're not sure at all of your suspicion if you think about lynching the one he suspected before he flipped. And at the same time pretty set on a Ray-lynch.

I think you're assuming too much about wat she said at this point, and using that assumption to come to a conclusion that ultimately makes her look scummier. She never said, or even implied, that she was "closing the doors" on the redbox lynch.

I don't really get the rest of your conclusions. How does that make her unsure of her suspicions if Ray flips town?

~~~

I may or may not have said this (I keep typing up posts and then deleting them because I don't have time to finish them, I know, real smart) but sorry for not posting much. School is busy this week, and will possibly be next week too.

[Skill006]

....well, no one has claimed willingness to hammer yet. So we don't know if we'll even get stuck in that situation.
However, its wisest not to hammer just yet, IMO. Whether he has an opinion-changing claim or not, we should still allow him to at least defend himself. If we don't give him the chance to defend himself and change our minds, perhaps, well...that would just be unfair to him because of availability issues (or whatever is making him inactive).

WHat do you suggest the real town player does? Keep quiet and not become a sitting duck for N1 killing, but subsequently allow the lying player to continue sliding by everyone else happily?

The said power role could have the special knowledge of knowing one of the scum. They can look for who their partner might be, and maybe help us in the end. Plus, scum wouldn't know their role, so they could still be useful at night. The lying player could eventually be ratted out by the real power role.

Or do you suggest the town player role claims and outs themselves right off the bat so we don't ever get to use that PR?

Eh, I agree, not a good idea.

If we let him role claim, we can gain info. Anyway, its only fair to let him do so. Even if he lies about having a power role, it wouldn't be the end of us, and he prob. wouldn't get away w/ it for too long. If he claims a power role, we can still consider him scum, and he wouldn't have gotten away with anything.

I dunno. Despite everything you say, I feel we should let him claim.

[Skill006]

(...they are all brawling amongst themselves, all of them, pushing for an apathy lynch. Apathy has only one more chance until they make the final decision. All is going according to plan...mwahahaha...)

OK. I have a question.

Skill006 ->
I disagree with some of what she has said (but that might go in a separate post) but I don't find her posts scummy. I guess my read is neutral on her.

What don't you agree with me on? you've got me all curious.

jammer, question:

Basically the scummy stuff

[about apathy]

.
He accuses Prana for pushing hard on Ray together with Ray as his prime suspect.

Wishy washy ness with redbox, skill and fuzzy.

Not willing to respond to points from prana, RF.

What's apathy's "wishy-washiness" on the three of us? And do you think he's scum or not?

Paltry, what's your read on apathy? (Out of everyone, discluding me, you're the only one who hasn't made a stance on it, I believe)

~~~~~~~

Apathy

“So far, Ray has tossed in little bits and pieces against me after the bandwagon gained steam, held off his vote in a contradicting manor, placed his vote slightly later to put me at l-1 and so far has made the smallest and worst case against me.”

Post 380. Are you even reading the thread?

I'm assuming that in your precise post, you'll actually attack prana and ray instead of saying they are scummy/bad town. You haven't really convinced me of anything in your arguments, and I'm a pretty easy person to convince (ok, so some of your points

did

convince me...for a time...)

I am l-1, and

you'll see how bad of a choice it was to lynch me once it happens

(im sure someone will hammer since Im not making big posts anymore)

Implying he is town...

Listen, you guys can vote me all you want. I know that I will flip town and you will have almost nothing to go on because of it.

You're about to lynch a vanilla because you cant pull back on your blind reigns and actually THINK about things before you make 10 irrational posts.

Again, if you are voting me off, you are being lead into a mislynch on a vanilla.

you have tried

twice

(4 times)

to convince us that you are town.... And you know how it goes: repeat something enough and people start to believe it.

He did something that is scummy by his own logic; 4 times.

Why dont we put our tiff behind us and actually work toward finding scum? Who else are you looking at? What about Skill006 or jammer?

Attention-diverting much? Not only are you asking random questions about random people (not necessarily bad)but you're

asking questions

, as opposed to giving your own reads on the 2 of us, or asking the 2 of us directly some questions that would generate discussion and thought. When you ask other people about it, it gives you a chance to see how other people are thinking and makes it easier for you to either poke holes in their analysises or nod and agree w/ them to slip by.

I'm getting a scum read on apathy from recent posts (his older posts weren't as scummy, IMO). However, I have a slight doubt in my mind, as his "scumminess" (lack of defense and the like) may be due to RL issues. So, I'm going to patiently wait for his next post to set my analysis. ^.^

[Skill006]

@Skill - I meant that I disagreed with your reads on people and your playstyle so far. I haven't picked up on anything that would actually be a tell, though. Hence the neutral read =/

oh. I thought you were gonna put it in another post 'cause you said "that might go in a seperate post", so I thought it was something controversial. It would still be nice to hear what you disagree with, though (although if you think it'll take away from the thread...)

Wrongo.

I did see that post, but you phrased it as if it wasn't your own case on him. It looked more like you were stating the current arguments against him, and then you were going to post reactions/opinions but never did.

I still don't think its a huge tell, though.

It really isn't a huge tell, but its still contradicting himself, which he apparently finds to be a great scumtell, as he uses it in his attacks a lot. Although, normally, I find the town repetitiveness to be more of a town tell, it depends on the situation.

[Skill006]

In fact, I looked a little back. And noticed you overblow cases(make them look stronger then they are) pretty much anytime.

Totally agree w/ this.
It's not very town-like to blow-up cases, is it?

[Skill006]

...unless you're just really passionate. ^_^

Which he said he wasn't as much, anymore...

[Skill006]

skill's posting is very restricted in what it covers.

GIVE A STANCE ON WHAT IS GOING ON ALREADY!

Um, deflecting little much?
Why do you want to get all the attention on Apathy.
Why don't you respond to skill discrediting your posts.

How is this deflecting?

*shrug* Now I've got to rethink what I was thinking there.
Skill had part of the post about you blowing up a case about jmurph.

Wait...why should you have to rethink anything? You don't know what was going through your brain at that time? We could take that to mean you were just typing something for the sake of attacking him.

[Skill006]

Wrongo.

I did see that post, but you phrased it as if it wasn't your own case on him. It looked more like you were stating the current arguments against him, and then you were going to post reactions/opinions but never did.

It kinda is (although I believe point C in the original post is my own). Apathy's posts have been gone through with a fine-toothed comb by three players (phaen, Ray, and Prana) and so I highlighted the points I agreed with and put in one of my own.

Yeah, point C was your own which was the part that confused me. but its all cleared up now. tnx
(you posted right before me so I have to look through that now...)

[Skill006]

W-w-w-wait. Wise jammer?

'cause he caught something that ray does a lot but no one points him out for. The quote I quoted was commended for "wiseness".

You can secede some points to a scummy player (cause people can make sense through lies) but we still haven't seen that case on jammer. Do you find him more town now? Why did you find him scummy? If your opinion has changed, why?

Case On Jammer

Well, I don't find him any more "town-ish" at this point. His "scum reads" were a bit weak, and he does more agreeing than jmurph does (and tries to hide the fact that he does it).

fuzzy: I see a lot of questions, and a lack of analysis.
I got the idea his posts are filled with questions towards others and a lot of text that to me they seem like a useless filler.
My interpretation is scum, that does a act on finding scum. I see rather little if any in his posts that would help me in finding scum.
The case on jmurph started weak, that's not bad as it was rather early in-game. The problem I more have with it, that when he is referring to jmurph, and reasons for voting her, as bad town, and not so much as possible scum.
I also don't like the contradiction, putting a FoS on prana for attacking RF, and later calling it town vs. town fight.

I say scum right here.

jmurph3:
Lot of useless talking in the start.
A OMGUS on one of her voters.
Did not defend herself because she thought defending yourself seems scummy.
Followed Apathy vote on RayFrost.(I think she decently explained later why she did, though.
Lynching Ray, and looking at redbox if Frost flips town, looks really really bad.

Scummy.

He was restating other people's suspicions at that point. Of course, he

had

just replaced in, but that doesn't mean he should not bring anything of his own in.

Basically the scummy stuff.
He accuses Prana for pushing hard on Ray together with Ray as his prime suspect.
Wishy washy ness with redbox, skill and fuzzy.
Not willing to respond to points from prana, RF.

Stuff other people said...

The 'OMG ur role-fishing' bit is blown up. The VT could been made at the time as something shorter then towny. Altough, VT does mean vanilla towny I could easily see someone making the mistake.
(towny is not a role, vanilla towny is a role.)

If this is talking about apathy, I have no idea what he's reffering to...

Calling it a playing style is not going to stop me suspecting someone.

This is good, actually. I can see the view of this.

Why would she only get suspicious of redbox when Ray flips town. It doesn't seem she considers changing votes at all. (to me)It seems she wants to close the door this day for a redbox lynch, and will open it completely if Ray is lynched as town.
I believe Ray started suspecting redbox, jmurph listing redbox as a second suspect seems strange. Why mention that you would suspect redbox most if Ray gets lynched <b>and<b/> flips town. You're not sure at all of your suspicion if you think about lynching the one he suspected before he flipped. And at the same time pretty set on a Ray-lynch.

Already went over this bit, but the assuming of jmurph saying things ahe didn't say NOR imply. Plus, he was hopping on to ray/prana's argument for this one, to use it as his own against jmurph.

Idd, I'm assuming, what you say is a possible explanation.
I didn't mean to state what I said as a fact merely trying to get out why I thought it was suspicious.
Note I'm not 100% sure my reasoning is the right one. If it was, it is with the 'lieing'(it would mean she lied heavily about what she meant) from her. Enough to place a vote on her.
The conclusions I get are majorly set on the assumption jmurph is lining up lynches.

Basically saying here "yeah, I assumed, but that still is my reasoning against her, and it is enough for a vote" Or at least I think he's saying that, 'cause if he is...what kind of logic

is

that?

*shrug* Now I've got to rethink what I was thinking there.
Skill had part of the post about you blowing up a case about jmurph.

And I already touched up on this bit. (post 530)

Don't have time to summarize the case. Don't have time to repeat my questions for jammer. (That I reelly want him to answer). I have to go watch a musical/eat breakfast. Peace.

[Skill006]

Twice now has fuzzy called for a lynch, knowing that either person could in fact be town, for the sheer fact of uselessness. The only people that I know who would actually call for a lynch of town is scum.

Day 1 lynches are rarely scum, so someone who isn't contributing to the discussion or someone who is playing anti-town-ishly would be ok lynches, especially if we have nothing else to go on. Its better than a no-lynch, especially with the possibility of actually hitting scum. Besides, scum

want

to keep useless town players around.

I'd be ok with an apathy lynch at this point (prior to the long awaited post, that is). Btw, how long should we wait for him? Wouldn't it be kinda sad/frustrating if someone had to replace him? (i'm not up for lynching lurkers but we're 4 days, almost 3, from deadline)

I'm not too clear on the case on jmurph, actually. I know there's a bit on her agreeing too much and not enough of her own independent thought, but I'm not sure what else is making her so scummy (lining up lynches<--weak case, btw) so right now, opposed to that lynch.

Fuzzy lynch is better than no lynch, but apathy would be better (though he's not my main suspect). He only posts when someone directs some attention on him, and he's always in the defensive position, which doesn't really help us progress. And his form of scumhunting seems to only help him.

What did you find contradictory there, it was more of an advisory post, and plus, my vote was not meant to bring on a bandwagon,

because at L-2 (which was what she was at after you and PD voted) scum, albeit stupid scum, can steamroll a lynch.

I also don't see why you were worried at those two (pe and pd) hopping on to apply pressure. And this "stupid scum" you speak of would be lynched the next day if they hammered jmurph that early in the game.

[Skill006]

Yay, suspicion on me

But why does that make "lynch so-and-so, they're being useless" somehow a worthwhile strategy?

Not exactly a "worthwhile strategy", but moreso I could understand his PoV. At the time of this one:

useless town is second preferred lynch to scum

[vote on jmurph, btw] there wasn't much suspicion on anyone else, and like he said, its second preferred.

My opinion on C is, I think we are better off without him regardless, because I haven't seen anything from him at all. The only positive from letting him live as a PR is that it makes scum "waste" a kill on eliminating PR-Apathy.

If they aren't being help to town, why keep them? Not helping town doesn't equal scum all the time, but not only is there chance that apathy

is

scum, but useless town can be dead weight in cases like lylo. I'm not saying "kill all useless townies, they are only weight". It just depends on the situation, and it seems to make sense on fuzzy's case.

- Bad at scum hunting (Possible cover?)

I have a confidence defect >.> It prohibits me from saying anything good about myself. And I used that as a cover in my last game and it did NOT go well, so I wouldn't use that ever again even if I was scum.

- Has done no voting since RVS.

Well, right now I'm not voting anyone because apathy is making us wait(s'already been two days) and I want to see jammer's defense for my case.

Your argument with Ray I wasn't around for, so no votes there.
After the argument, while I scanned things, only redbox caught my attention as scummy.

Although I would have placed a vote, he hadn't posted since after I came back. I wanted to see some sort of defense from him (as I usually do) before placing any kind of vote on him (or any case, for that matter T.T) Then, of course he got replaced.

I was also susicious of jammer for awhile now, but he put up a good defense from my attacks on him, that seemed to make sense. But I though I probably didn't ask the right questions, because I couldn't shake off this gut feeling. So now, I prodeth him some more.

...So I didn't vote because of a mix of what I just explained and my dislike of voting.

With all that being said, I really should vote. It's not gonna kill anybody and I need to get over myself.

vote:jammer

Not only am I suspicious because of my case, but he needs to start talking. He has the least amount of stuff in this thread, now, and I could almost call him out for active lurking if it weren't for the fact that I'm pretty convinced he is gone due to RL issues.

- Solely defending people, not hunting (Possibly trying to keep everyone on side?)

Yeah, I do tend to do this (real life, games, anything). Aside from that, though, I try to turn my defenses into attacks of the other person's arguments. To see how the other person comes back at me/victim. In addition, I like to stand up for something I believe to be right, to weigh in my opinion on something (even if it doesn't concern me)

- Refuses to jump on a bandwagon,

Yep. Normally people under pressure look like town for some reason, and thats always the people who are being BW-->useless me, never votes. I know, people can't get lynched without a BW. I guess not jumping on BWs is just another personality defect that I really need to fight off (as this is just a game). So, no adequate defense for this bit.

even when she "knows" the victim is scum.

Haha, this was just a refernce-joke to my last game. I was cop last game and I investigated Ray, who was scum. I formed a BW on him, then promptly jumped off when he got to L-1 (never again). It was quite silly of me.

[Skill006]

...I had a feeling apathy would replace out sooner or later, he seemed to be having some RL issues since he started posting.

...fuzzy's suspicion was stated before?

I thought so...maybe it wasn't There's a lot to read through to find if you did restate or not, but it may not even be worth the trouble as restating a case prob. isn't that scummy (as many of us, including myself, have done it)

I stated what I though was noteworthy, that it might been said before. Doesn't change what I think about it.
Last point 'not willing to respond back' has been said before I know I've seen it.

Repeating a case on someone and not even giving a clear stance kind of seems...I dunno. I don't get the point of that. So you thought it was noteworthy, but in what way? You can't expound upon any of it?

I'm not stealing points and pretending I made them myself.

I know, not even scum would do that. But it still nicely fills your posts. Although, I have seen other things of yours that are from your own mouth, so I suppose you're ok-ish on that.

pe's 'summary', could be explained as copying points as well, as you did explain it like that. Almost Fuzzys whole game could be explained this way.

Ok. That doesn't make it excusable, though.

Apathy said with someone "if VT" or something along those lines, Ray got mad "You shall not rolefish" or something.

Oh, I missed that. sorry

I said it was not enough for a vote. Quite the opposite.

Really? Here's what you said:

Idd, I'm assuming, what you say is a possible explanation.
I didn't mean to state what I said as a fact merely trying to get out why I thought it was suspicious.
Note I'm not 100% sure my reasoning is the right one. If it was, it is with the 'lieing'(it would mean she lied heavily about what she meant) from her.

Enough to place a vote on her.

The conclusions I get are majorly set on the assumption jmurph is lining up lynches.

Ok, the bolded part is awfully confusing and could easily be misinterpreted (I'm not saying you put that there intentionally to fool someone, it just seems obscure). The reasoning you put forth depends on what she does in the future, so it really shouldn't have been used against her.

More in the sence I was mixing things up earlier. That comment came from it. And yes, you could interpretate it different ways.

...What are you talking about? How could you "mix things up"? You quoted a quote from Ray and said "deflecting much?", Ray had said "Skill needs to take a stance". How can there be confusion there?

As for Skill, I'm still unsure. Wanting to defend people who are being targetted wrongly? That's fine by me, but defending everyone is... a strange tactic, if you don't make some form of attack, you're also not pressuring potential scum, just asking people to explain further why they think things (potentially drawing things out and making it harder to read... not that I've helped with that previously).

Did you not find anything good in my defense, anything that you found some truth in? Anyhow, I'm trying to attack someone but its not someone you agree with me on. Sorry. And my other scum read would lead us in circles and if I did anything about it, would just "stall" the town.

Erm... you want to wait to vote to hear his defense, but will still vote for him?

Yah. I voted him because he needed to post something, and he was slipping by without giving much. My case on him had little to do with my vote, its more his inactivity and his getting away with it. I'm not gonna take off my vote just yet.

but I'm starting to get more of a feeling Skill could well be scum, even more so when you consider the rather weak case on jammer (to me at least) followed up with a vote on him a mere 2 days before deadline, when it's highly unlikely to end in a jammer lynch, as though voting just for the sake of it so it can't be said she hasn't voted.

Ok, what's scummy about me? Defending too many people? My "weak case" and vote on him before deadline isn't with the purpose of lynching him, I don't vote people just to form BWs. He just hasn't posted very much content. Although, you bring up the point that it's way too close to deadline. Now's not the time for me to be scumhunting.

unvote

I don't even care if this is scummy anymore, I just want to start focusing my attention on what we should do about apathy, rather than lead the town in 50 different ways.

I agree that it would be awful if somebody had to replace apathy at this point, both for the replacement and us. However, I'm gonna take a closer look at apathy to see if I really want to lynch him or not. I don't want to lynch him just because he's asking for a replacement (not the only reaosn, but I'm still gonna go back)

[Skill006]

Apathy promises a post & then gives up and asks for a replacement?

My posts have been getting shorter because I'm losing interest. I feel like there really isn't much real development going on these past few RL days. I may be wrong though because I haven't been reading as closely as I used to. I've been waiting for Apathy to come up with a decent defense and he hasn't.

Maybe there's something you could do about it yourself? Were you scumhunting in other areas? I know its dreadfully boring waiting for someone to post, but he isn't the only guy around.

[Skill006]

@kison: I unvoted jammer

Fixed. Thanks!

Well, now we have a replacement (hi zorblag!), so we better wait a little before hammering.

[Skill006]

Sigh, I can't really imagine getting much of a read on Troll in the ~30 hrs we have left =/

May as well give him a chance. He'll be able to help us, I'm sure.

Anyway, are you gonna answer these [Phaen]?

Maybe there's something you could do about it yourself? Were you scumhunting in other areas? I know its dreadfully boring waiting for someone to post, but he isn't the only guy around.

They weren't rhetorical.

[Skill006]

PranaDevil is thus far largely consistent regarding scummy (the things he views as scummy aren't the actions that he's taking.)

Not to interrupt your reading, but do you think you could explain this? (sorry, I know you're in a pressured spot ^_^;;)

[Skill006]

...This is a pretty crappy position to be in. I guess I'm the only one to blame for that, since I didn't vote/input sooner.

I'm weakly confident that fuzzy is scum. However, as Zorblag mentioned, fuzzy is an IC, yet he has done nothing in the way of scumhunting.

@fuzzy: you said you only say things when they are worthwhile. Has there really been that little to say? Like you said here:

...but that doesn't mean that there is nothing you can do to facilitate discussion. Ask people questions (pertinent ones), re-read things that have been said and think to yourself, why would town say this and why would scum say this and which is more likely to be the case for a particular person. Not having anything to talk about should rarely be an excuse...

You know how to do it, and there is a good chunk of discussion to go through to ask questions, analyze, and use to scum hunt/pressure, but you're not doing any of that (except for the analyzing part). Why?

In fact, the more I think about it, the scummier fuzzy seems. By telling jmurph she needs to create discussion, and not do anything about it himself, makes it seem like he wants other people to post around and get the game going while he sits on the sidelines.

You know what, I think I could hammer fuzzy. Not before he answers those questions, but once he does, depending on how he responds, I could probably hammer.

So, there's my stance...Hopefully I will also be readily available throughout today.

[Skill006]

Love the pics
It looks more like paltry got run over by a car, as opposed to being shot XD

Ok, notice:

Day One's Final Vote Count

fuzzylightning ( 5 ) : jammer, jmurph3, PaltryExcuse,

PranaDevil

, Zorblag
Zorblag ( 3 ) : Phaen, RayFrost, fuzzylightning

Not Voting ( 1 ) : Skill006

With 9 alive, 5 votes were required to lynch.

And then here:

Day One: Vote Count

Apathy ( 4 ) : Phaen, RayFrost, fuzzylightning,

PranaDevil

fuzzylightning ( 2 ) : jammer, jmurph3
jmurph3 ( 1 ) : PaltryExcuse
RayFrost ( 1 ) : Apathy

Not Voting ( 1 ) : Skill006

With 9 alive, it will take 5 votes to lynch.

Opportunistic much?

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Questions, now that it is day 2:

@pranadevil: why did you feel you should unvote apathy to switch to fuzzy? (By the way, I know you unvoted zorblag because he just replaced in, my question asks why you thought fuzzy was more worth lynching).

@phaen: who else is suspicious besides zorblag? I saw this:

My top scum suspicions are

1) Apathy/Troll
2) jmurph
3) Skill

But I don’t know if it has changed, and you never really said much about me or jmurph.

@jammer:

Wishy washy ness with redbox, skill and fuzzy.

What's apathy's "wishy-washiness" on the three of us?

@zorblag: do you think anyone on

your

wagon was scum?

[Skill006]

I'm back. Clearly. I had alot of unexpected hw last couple of days, and my disappearance wasn't related to the game, I just happened to come under suspicion while I got toppled[w/ hw]. I still have a bit to finish up tonight, but hopefully (no promises) I'll be more attentive for the rest of the week.

Now...prana, while your attack on me is nice, you must've missed my posts where I defended against all of this:

- Bad at scum hunting (Possible cover?)
- Has done no voting since RVS.
- Solely defending people, not hunting (Possibly trying to keep everyone on side?)
- Refuses to jump on a bandwagon, even when she "knows" the victim is scum.

See post # 544

How would she even "know" the victim is scum short of being their scum buddy? And even if it's just a turn of phrase (possible, but a strange wording, as "think" would be better for a town player surely, as none of us know who is scum and who isn't), that doesn't scream pro-town to me... in fact it's decidedly scummy, as the one and only way for town to win, is for us to have a majority vote for scum, the only way to do that, is to have a bandwagon form to lynch them.

post # 544 (I dunno why I have a seperate quote for this )

As for Skill, I'm still unsure. Wanting to defend people who are being targetted wrongly? That's fine by me, but defending everyone is... a strange tactic, if you don't make some form of attack, you're also not pressuring potential scum, just asking people to explain further why they think things (potentially drawing things out and making it harder to read... not that I've helped with that previously).

etc., etc.

I believe post #559, I defended myself [perhaps poorly, but still]

I can understand why you missed them, though, they're kind of amidst a bunch of other clutter, hard to see what's directed at who in my posts ^.^;

As for the recent stuff:

Opportunistic? I think you'll find the reason I was late on the fuzzy wagon is I was still pushing for the Apathy one until Zorblag came in, and gave a reason.

Was there a person you didn't have suspicion on? One can spread all of their suspicions around the players and go back on whichever one they want at a convinient time.

Through the lack of voting, in fact... the fact you avoided voting almost entirely in the first day, only to return with "so do you think people on the wagons were scummy?" Leads me to believe that perhaps you are trying to keep people suspicious in the wrong directions.

I explained why I didn't vote much. you may consider me on the fuzzy wagon (I said this), even though I wasn't voting him. I said I would vote him. The only reason I didn't was because Zorb had something he seemed to be waiting for.

...along with obviously trying to twist things up above.

explanation?

[Skill006]

>.> Posted at the same time

So they both don't like each other. Meaning if they were working together, each is trying to throw the other under the bus.

meh. I don't want to lynch jammer. I don't want to make him look scummy, either. My intention for attacking him was not with the intent to lynch scum/make town look like scum/other scummy deeds you might want to accuse me of.

My unvote of jammer as soon as I voted him was because I just realized we were that close to deadline and I shouldn''t have been scum-hunting at that point.

[Skill006]

was just a waste.

Why didn't you comment on this when he posted it? Was it perhaps because Ray has officially declared jammer scummy?

@jammer: That's not quite how I wanted you to answer my question. I'll rephrase it: how was his "wishiwashiness" different from yours in the beginning?

[Skill006]

>.> Posted at the same time

So they both don't like each other. Meaning if they were working together, each is trying to throw the other under the bus.

meh.

I don't want to lynch jammer. I don't want to make him look scummy, either.

My intention for attacking him was not with the intent to lynch scum

/

other scummy deeds

you might want to accuse me of.

laughingelfman.jpg

unvote, vote: skill006

...wait...wut?

[Skill006]

Phaen, I am looking forward to your post today. Please don't forget about this wonderful game ^_^

make him look scummy

Why would I want to

make

him look scummy?

you don't want to lynch him...so why did you attack him? (shows scum that's trying to backtrack from an earlier position)

Not necessarily. No need to jump to conclusions.

(apparantly, wishing to lynch scum is scummy to you, shows paranoia and anxiety that is attributable to scum)

Ok, so you can make the general idea of "paranoia" a scumtell, but how is it a scum tell in my case?

@everyone: I'll explain why I was making a case on jammer. It was my way of trying to get a read off of him. He was posting quite similarly to fuzzy (although he was making more of an attempt at attacking people), and I wanted to pressure him some way. I couldn't get much of a read off of him. At that point in the game, though, I thought a "pressure" vote would be irrelevant to the matters at hand, but I still wanted to see what he would say to my case. I was somewhat suspicious of him, but I more wanted to see his reactions. I also wanted to see what other people would think of it, and how they would react.

Of course, it was kinda late in the day, and my case sucked, so it pretty much backfired on me, and made me look scummy.
Even so, I think now that this case has built up on me, I was able to observe something about a couple of the players, so it wasn't all bad. I'll post my observations in my next post (I want a quick chance to get my thoughts organized, something I rarely do).

[Skill006]

...skill doesn't suspect me?

I'm sorry, but I do still suspect you.

What alignment were you in your first game?

[Skill006]

EBWOP you're 3rd on my list. You have been for awhile.

My #1 suspect requires me to watch them from the background, without saying anything to them (its my experiment that's been going since the middle of day 1, and so far, not very "town-ish" results :/).

My #2 suspect is one that I started suspecting because of the BW on me, which is jmurph.

Yesterday, I was almost positive jmurph was newb town. In comparison, jmurph was acting a lot like newbies I had played with/read about, and they tend to follow others suspicions and look like scum (subsequently, they always get lynched and are always town, which is why I avoided the jmurph wagon).

However, when I saw her posts, I had the same thought that Zorb had, and that was that she was really playing follow the leader. It's easy to follow the most aggresive person/people, those 2 in particular (prana and ray), as they pass a blind eye to people who follow them (or they appear to, anyway).

I actually agree that I think Ray's case on jammer was quite weak, and I like to think I've learned from last time to not jump on a weak wagon without my own evidence.

Why was his case weak? (btw, I don't want a zorb answer for this).

[Skill006]

uhh, EBWOP again,

FoS:jmurph

hit submit too soon.

[Skill006]

Thanks jammer ^_^


[/b]

[Skill006]

Aaah, my long post got deleted because I was mid-typing and then I went to eat dinner TT_TT

I'll admit to not doing so well at making my own cases in D1, but I take mild offense to this.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean for you to take offense

I was a little obscure on that. What I said wasn't really clarified, and it made sense in my head, but I realize now that it could be taken either way.

What I meant was that you only stated suspicion on us after Ray and Prana stated their suspicons. Which means that you're only stating suspicion where you think you won't be bombarded for it (like if you went back to zorblag, you would have a harder time then if you're tagging along with ray/prana's suspicions).

Erm, pardon? Either you've not been paying much attention at all to the goings on in this game, or you are deliberately leaving out rather important points there.

...hm? Was it 'points' I was leaving out? Or was it this:

I know I, for a fact, have pulled up jmurph on her "follow the leader" stuff on D1, and I'm also pretty sure Ray has. If you're going to make a pointless comment, at least make sure it's somewhat buried in the realms of reality.

I wasn't saying you didn't say that, I didn't say no one else said that.

Ok maybe I did...imply that or something. I dunno, I just don't see why you're upset.
I was just trying to imply that her play has been far repetitive by now, and as I wasn't really paying much attention to her before, the case on me made it connect more to me and I kinda noticed now. Mmmm...I feel like I'm not finding the right words to explain this...Do you kinda get what I mean?

Oh, and I don't get the "If you're going to make a pointless comment" part. Was it really that pointless

You only played with Ray-scum before, how do you know he plays defensively as scum and town.

I read a game where he was town. They attacked him for the same exact reasons.

[Skill006]

Oh, right. Prana, are you gonna acknowledge my defenses? Like, ever?

[Skill006]

...is phaen coming back?

Either way,

vote:phaen

gogo lynch

[Skill006]

...this is sad.

Me don't like this part:

As for acknowledging defenses, I see no reason to do so if I also don't feel that they are adequate. There's also the fact I posted those because I was asked to by jmurph to save people tracking back to find them.

I'm sorry, but WHY would anyone think like this? By saying my defense isn't adequate, you give yourself a free pass on even acknowledging that my defense exists. By doing this, you don't have to say anything to it. If you didn't think my defense was adequte, why didn't you say why you thought it was inadequate? I feel like you've been intentionally ignoring some of my posts and bringing up other things that are easier for you to attack me with.

That's rather... convenient though isn't it? The one and only time you really jump on a bandwagon is one you not only didn't vote in, but one that was as good as a guarenteed lynch anyway. Prior to that point you wanted in on none anyway, and I still don't buy it.

You're completely wrong on this point. First of all, I was in support of it (by the end). I even posted my thoughts on why I thought he was scummy. AND, I was GOING to vote, however, like I have stressed, troll seemed to be waiting for something before the day ended. Why would a vote matter or not? My thoughts/suspicions were still there.

[Skill006]

oh, okay.

vote: skill

...Needed to reconsider something?

...is phaen coming back?

Either way,
vote:phaen

gogo lynch

^---- need2die

Phaen's the scum, not me. Your gun's pointed in the wrong direction.

Anyway, what's your case on me besides YOU HAVE NOT POSTED. YOU HAVE NOT POSTED. SCUM LIKE TO LURK. YOU ARE SCUM.

I'm posting now, aren't I?

[Skill006]

Shoot.

was Phaen the number one suspect you were talking about in Post 647? Apparently I think that it's not entirely clear who you had in mind.

I don't like this question, but as I don't like ignoring questions, I'll answer it.

Yah, Phaen has been up there for awhile now. The reason I never stated this before is because her only posts were reactions to the game we have already played and attacks on apathy. I wanted to see how she would play when she didn't have the past game as a support for her posts.

Not only did she have a support for what her posts contained, but it built up a good first impression on her. redbox was scummy, she makes up for it with a butt-long post, and everyone's happy.

[Skill006]

Hey guys, I'm here ^_^

I'll get a bigger post up after my hw's taken care of. Just wanted to let the ever-suspicious town know that I'm not quite dead yet.

(This town often boggles me. Its like you all have the same mutual brain. You guys couldn't have

all

had the same thoughts end of day 1/start of day 2).

Anyhow, I'm not giving up hope just yet. I'll defend myself when I get back, and tell you guys all of my suspicions (huzzah).

@ray-do i really have to? it feels like the day's hardly started.

Am I really the only BW town{/scum} want to start?

@anyone-should defenses be acknowledged in any way? Even if you think its bad, should you say anything towards it, or can you just ignore it and think your case is valid (this is not towards prana in any way, just a general question).

[Skill006]

If you controlled the lynch, town and scum alike would fear you.

Anyway, I'll claim. Won't change anything.

claim: vanilla

Though honestly, I prefer strawberry ^_^

Ouch. This makes all of the defenses I posted seem really lousy, since most of them are just "excuses"...

...is an obvious excuse for bad play...

...but I want to link to them anyway because I think they're worthwhile defenses that people should consider.

@anyone:

I don't know how to link to a

specific post

. Help?

Alrighty, now for the fun part

Fuzzy Lynch

The scummiest person in this lineup is Skill. There is no town-motivation for sitting there not voting when the day is just about over. I'm fairly sure Skill is hoping against hope for a No Lynch here.

As scum, I would want one of them lynched. (More townies to kill Not that I know if troll is town or not.) Why in the world would I hope for a "no lynch" at that point when, like prana said, fuzzy's lynch was inevitable?

To be honest, I was sure someone was going to attack me for not voting. I didn't hammer to look "more town" or whatever other crazy things you're accusing me of; I didn't hammer because I thought troll was waiting for something, and I didn't want to hammer prematurely.

[AUgghh...Should've been taking notes from the start, having a lot of trouble piecing the case on me together...>.>]

Stuff on jammer

Yes, I DO think jammer is scummy. No, I wasn't building a case on him

with the intent of making him

look scummy

.

What does this even mean? First of all, unless you're scum, its impossible for you to intentionally 'make town look like scum' because if you're town you don't know who else is town! I know other people have already mentioned it but geez this post is contradictory.

I didn't say "make

town

look scummy". Some town players make their victims look scummier (like troll did), or make them look like scum. I'm clarifying that it wasn't my intention to do so.

If you still suspected or did ever suspect jammer, why wouldn't you want to lynch him? In general, if you think someone is scum, you lay out your case on him with the intention of trying to lynch who you suspect is scum. That's typically how the game is played.

First of all, I don't play the game in a typical fashion (as you can clearly see. Believe it or not, this is how I play as town). More importantly, I did suspect jammer, but I couldn't get a decent read on him. I decided to take that problem into my own hands and try to build a case on him, and see how everyone (especially himself) would react. This could be percepted as a scum tactic, but I was trying to use it for the purpose of getting jammer into the game (of course, it failed miserably, but...)

...I can't say much on the "general bad play".

It's just me being a nervous, passive person

Excuses and complaining.

Ok, there's definitely stuff I missed, and I'd be more than happy to reply to it (as saving my own butt will save town's butt). There's just a whole lot of stuff on me, and there's a reason for all of the "bad crimes" I have comitted, but there are more important matters to attend to!

Phaen

, # 1 suspect: Her early posts were recuonting all of the events as if she were there. Nothing wrong with that, but seemed like a crutch for her posts. And a good first impression to dissuade the early tidings of a BW on redbox.

After she dropped the recollecting of the posts (right before the ray/prana pitchoff...?), she went into tunneling on apathy, and never really stated much suspicion on anyone else. When she said she wanted to jump right into the game, I didn't mind. However, all she really did was battle with apathy, and push for his lynch. There wasn't anything much in the way of scumhunting (by my definition, anyway), except for attacking apathy's "rubbish" stuff.

Here's another thing I found interesting from the BW on me, and I doubt it would've come up if there hadn't been one on me: phaen has really mellowed down on the troll case.
On day 1, she said that the player slot is definitely scum, and we should just lynch apathy, and was completely against a troll replacement. However, now that he has replaced in, she stopped her lynch parade. Apparently, "I'm more scummy than apathy ever was." That's hard to imagine, just from me not hammering (since you didn't have a scum read on me day 1). Not only that, but she has made little attempt to see if her beliefs about apathy being scum day 1 were correct, and has proceeded to push aside troll (well, not completely, of course, but I seem to be the only lynch for today).

She just attacks from a safe distance, in a way. Some attacks on apathy (popular at the time, so not much trouble there), then attacks me (popular, so no trouble there). As long as her attacks are substantial, she can just shuffle with the crowd, and pass under suspicion.

Lastly, with all this latest heat on me, it seems like she just wants me quicklynched (vote put me to l-1, dood) without much of any confirmation of a read on troll. More discussion helps town, right? (apparently not This town is a lot diff. from my last, but I still feel more discussion helps.)

@phaen: Are you suspicious of Ray?
What is your read on troll? (do you think he himself is scummy, do you think he is doing a good job making himself look town, do you think you were wrong in your read of apathy?)

jammer

suspect # 2 (I think...hard to decide the order...);

He is posting a minimal amount. Just enough to get by, and no matter how many times somebody says it or he acknowledges it, he is still posting in that same, active-lurking style.

Anyway, at first he says he's not sure about his read on me. Then he reiterates the case on me, says a couple things that he did in his last post that were kind of straight-forward anyway, and...just drops it there. I'm assuming he finds me scummy since he put that case in his post...
Am I scummy or not? Am I at the top of your list? Is there anyone else on your list?

You'll get your attention eventually.

When's "eventually"

A reason I'm not voting you[Zorblag], is that I haven't seen really much from you yet. I'd want to form a opinion about you apart from Apathy now we've got a new fresh day.

You seem to be fanning the flames of my lynch, yet you haven't developed a read on one of the players. So much for "fresh new day"...

Lastly,

jmurph3

suspect # something; I wasn't paying as much attention to her on day 1. But I thought it was really odd that she started following the case on me and jammer right after ray and prana stated suspicion. It seems like the only suspicions that go are prana's and ray's, so she just waits for them to say something (perhaps not intentionally, whether she is town or scum), and look at the people they're suspicious of.

Then she starts to disagree with some of Ray's case, as if trying to assuage everyone's suspicions of her agreeing with him.

Sure, she added stuff to the case. Even so, she only adds stuff when she sees who prana and ray are initially suspicious of. She's had a pattern of this throughout the game, as other have mentioned. It seems like she isn't really searching much for who scum might be (I understand there are RL issues, but...), and just adds to cases to "pass the test" (weird analogy).

Unfortunately, I don't really have any specific questions for you. Sorry

There were some questions directed at me. However, I need to take a shower, then go to sleep, so I'll answer them tomorrow.

[btw, did everyone notice that neat picture of all of the survivors on the first page? (I like how fuzzy is that silly lightning bolt, not his actual avatar XD)]

Don't hammer!

(please...)

[Skill006]

I saw that, jmurph,:

(I understand there are RL issues, but...)

What I misinterpreted about you, though, was that I thought you're top suspicions were me and jammer (seeing as how you FoS'ed us and everything), but an FoS isn't really a declaration of war or anything. I understand that you haven't had the chance to look at everyone but, based on general feelings and day 1 material (as well as initial suspicions from day 1), who are your top

3

suspicions?

It doesn't seem like prana has anyone else he's very suspicious of.

Can't really tell where Zorblag stands, either. (except that he has suspicion on jmurph).

jammer states why I am scummy and doesn't really take much of a stance.

Here's everyone's colors, btw:

1) Phaen

2) PranaDevil

3) Zorblag

4) jammer

5) jmurph3

6) Skill006

7) RayFrost

(I don't think anyone really cares, but if you want a color switch, just ask)

Anyway...

was I your primary suspect when you started a case against me?

Kind of. I was mildly suspicious of phaen at the time, as she had just replaced in. (Though I was working on that "experiment" the whole time). But, like I said, I was pretty unsure about my read on you, though I was getting awfully persistent scum vibes from you, and I still am (hence why I put you above jmurph on my list).

@Skill: to quote a specific post, click on the little symbol at the very top of the post next to the date and time this was posted. it should take you to the URL for that post, which you can copy and use as you will.

Ah, thank you. I'll try it in my next post, but I have to attend to something right now, sooo...not now.

See ya guys in a bit!

[Skill006]

Inactivity=sadness (guess I shouldn't be talking)

...BAM!

It works!!! (Thanks jmurph!!) --^ Teh defense of myself against teh case on me, or some small parts of it anyway. I didn't realize that I posted this all the way back in day 1 ^.^; If you think its just an excuse for my bad play, I suppose you can ignore it/not post anthing in observation to it, and I suppose I would have to understand why, but I would appreciate it if everyone would at least read it.

I can't think of any other house-keeping chores I needed to take care of... so I'll be off to bed! (btw, PLEASE remind me of any questions you have asked me! Questions=good! And I'm too tired right now to search for any myself)

[Skill006]

uh, EBWOP to post 701, my question to jmurph shouldn't be, um, askable (I dunno) because of RL issues and the like. But, when you have a chance, jmurph, do you think you could get some suspicions out?

[Skill006]

Then today she started off pointing a finger in my direction because I was "opportunistic"... on lynches I had been pushing for? It's the exact opposite of the definition of the word. If I had been opportunistic I would have voted to put them at L1 without a serious reason. Factor in my recent spot of the extremely blatant contradictions in play style regarding her votes on redbox and jammer, and I'm failing to see how there's been any consistancy in her play.

I wasn't exactly "pointing a finger" at you. I was bringing it up as a suggestion of your tactic. And I wanted to see how you would respond to it. You got WAY too worked up about it.

[Skill006]

You know what? vote: Skill

This game is going quite slow enough.
I've slept on it and the more I think about it the more sure I am.

Lynching me will only speed things up if you're scum.

[Skill006]

I wouldn't say I got worked up about it, just pointed out (strongly) that scum would be wanting to try and show up someone else negatively, despite the actuality of it being different. You claimed one thing, and were proven that what you were claiming, and what actually happened, were not one and the same.

At the time, I thought it would have been kind of oppurtunistic for you to have switched to a more popular BW (fuzzy) so that he could be lynched. When I actually look back, though, I see that fuzzy had the same amount of "popular-ness", and it wasn't really "oppurtunistic", like you said, unless you were psycic about what was to come next. The details were meshing in my mind.

At any rate, I have no way of telling if you're scum buddies with troll and you just wanted to quickly switch over to fuzzy. Not that I think you are, but its always a possibility.

Some people prefer shorter day phases (In all honesty, I'm one of them, I find with a 3 week day phase, yes a lot gets said, but by the end of week 3, you've forgotten a lot of what was said at the start of week 1). So I would hardly say speeding things up only works if you're scum (I just saw scum lynched with a day phase that lasted under 24 hours no less. That one damned sure didn't help scum).

That's why I said "lynching

me

" . Quick days probably work in other situations, but...I wouldn't say this day is long, just slow in RL days. Also, people seem to be having a hard time establishing reads, so I can hardly see why lynching me would help, especially how she puts it.

Essentially, wouldn't you guys just go back to square one if you lynch me so quickly? (well, maybe it doesn't seem quick to you guys, but it seems quick to me ) Not only that, but you would have less town in the game, whether I'm scum or not. (Like jmurph said, not exactly odds I would want me or you guys to throw yourselves into).

From what I've seen, day 3 with no scum dead always plummet downhill from there. Just a warning, don't need to heed it if you guys

really really really

think I'm scum. And, honestly, it feels like the people pressing for my lynch are just desperate for any lynch. Not because the case on me is bad, because its not, but because there's a lack of a real search for other scumtells from other people.

...O_O prana's rambling is rubbing off on me...

[Skill006]

Although, if you want a more solid reason that it's scummy, perhaps pointing out that wanting to speed the game up, despite posting next to nothing yourself (talking about phaen) does nothing to help the game pick up speed, only slow it down. So in that sense it's like saying "I want the game to move fast, but I don't want to help it do so". Which, in that instance, only helps if they are scum.

...This is a good way to look at it. I didn't put it into perspective like that.

Prana, what's your read on phaen?

[Skill006]

@Skill006, why didin't you care for my question as to whether Phaen had been your number one suspect? Do you think that it was clearer than I had thought?

But I did care...

What is it that you think I did to make my victim (I assume fuzzylightning?) look scummier (as per Post 696)?

... I don't recall saying anything like that. I'm not even sure what this refers to in that post...could you clarify?

Is there some reason that you didn't want to let us know who it was after you had voted?

If you're referring to my phaen vote, I wanted to see how phaen would react. That's all.

[Skill006]

If you are scum, and we lynch you, we would have less town in the game? Well... if you're basing it off night phase killing a town player, then sure, but that happens whether we lynch someone right now, or whether we lynch someone in a week.

Oh...you're right ^.^; (Stupid me...)

Anyhow, that was the less important part of my post. The more important part is, you wouldn't have much info based off of my lynch, just like fuzzy's lynch hasn't helped us much.

Sure, you would know my role (which wouldn't help you), but I feel like not much has been accomplished today other than establishing the case on me. I'm not the only person around; sure, I may be the scummiest in your eyes, but its easier to sneak on a BW and get a mislynch going.

[Skill006]

yes, you didn't like my question about Phaen being your number one suspect. That was what I was trying to figure out the reason for. The link you're giving is exactly what I don't understand. Not caring for something typically means not liking it (though I am a bit too fond of colloquialisms from time to time.)

Sorry, I misunderstood your question, I thought you were asking why I didn't answer that question at all.

I only didn't care for answering it because I was in the middle of trying to see phaen's reaction to my "random vote" (which wasn't random, but I intentionally made it seem that way, obviously). However, by answering your question I made it seem like an "un-random vote".

I'm mostly curious about what you had in mind there.

That was just in reference to your example you gave us day 1, where you made your case on yankee look stronger than it was. Sorry, I take bad brain classes, so my thoughts don't get out in the way I would like them to sometimes (I'm not very clear-headed).

I suppose you could get some info out of my lynch, and you're right, it would be very hard to hit scum dead on, even on day 2. It just feels like there are more things we could get done now than we could if we hurried and lynched me (such as collecting reads on people).

Originally there might have been some reason to want to keep that vague but it seemed like you were confirming that it was Phaen at some point and once the vote was cast I couldn't see the benefit in keeping it a mystery anymore.

I don't recall confirming my suspicions on phaen prior to my vote

Are you talking about when I answered your question? I think that was the only time I really said anything about phaen, until I pulled out my actual case. The reason why I didn't pull out my whole case right then was becasue I thought my reaction-fishing would still be somewhat effective since I didn't state my case, just that she was at the top.

[Skill006]

@mod:

I think phaen's ready for a prod too.

[Skill006]

Hey people!

Part 1: the mellowing on the troll case. Well, it's quite possible that Phaen has mellowed on the troll case because she's gotten a different read from Zorb based on the results of the first day, or based on play from this current day. Naturally, it doesn't help that she's only posted 5 time for this day (that does not seem like a lot at all).Phaen does, however, say this for the Apathy slot: [insert Phaen speech]

We don't know if she has mellowed on the troll case, because she never really explained her stance on him (or at least I don't think she did).

Anyway, why should she if she was so convinced apathy was scum? Shouldn't she be prying troll with questions or something to get some kind of an indicator from him, or to see if her read was right?

What's the point of quicklynching me if she had a scum read on another player that she doesn't have confirmed? May as well try to get a read out of troll while we are still in the day phase.

Also, Skill, you say that Phaen did not have a scum read on you from D1. As a matter of fact, she did. She notes here that you're one of her top 3 choices.

I actually did see that, but it really didn't mean all that much since it wasn't reinforced with any kind of reason, and it came out of nowhere. Being #3 on someone's suspect list doesn't really mean all that much, either, especially if there isn't much reason to it.

Part 2: She only attacks on those that are popular. I suppose this is true to an extent, but at the same time, if she really wanted to switch to what was popular, she would've jumped on the fuzzy wagon when it seemed that that was the way we were going to go.

There wouldn't have been much reason for her to jump over to fuzzy. One of them was going to be mislynched, and apathy was popular for the majority of the time. Only when prana switched his vote did fuzzy surpass apathy, and troll wasn't about to vote himself so...

Part 3: quick lynch. Prana already stated that Phaen might just want the game to go faster in general, which, really, I'll give her that because I do too. But as he also noted, the fact that she dropped the vote on Skill and then disappeared does seem scummy, but by itself is not enough to make Phaen scum.

The problem with her wanting to quick lynch me, though, is that there are things she could be doing today, as opposed to ending the day right away. It may feel like it will speed things up, but you may miss important details about other people. Like Troll said, if she was confident that troll slot was scum, than she should be doing something about it.

jmurph, you sould be able to take a stance whether ray posts or not (though I can understand wanting to wait for phaen). You don't have to wait for everyone else to form an opinion, although I gather from your post that you think the phaen wagon is weak right now.

[Skill006]

I actually didn't realize we had only a week left. For some reason I thought we had more time than that.

I suppose we should think about lynching someone now, though it might be hard what with the lack of activity. jammer hasn't posted in a week. Phaen is in the same condition. I'm worried that they won't come back, and I'm not sure what we should do about them (as replacements bog the game down). Both of them are my top 2 suspects, so while I wouldn't mind lynching them, I want more info from them.

Right now I'm just hoping they'll come back, but if they don't...I dunno.

[Skill006]

that's cuz I'm being lazy.

why

[Skill006]

Hi col.cathart!

I've read one of your games (coincidentally troll was the mod), but it's been a while since I read through that.

@Phaen: If it's becoming a chore for you to come back to this game, IMO I think you should replace out. And it would be best if you could post your last thoughts quickly and then replace out, as we want the replacement to have enough time to catch up. (although it's sad that you're losing interest, since you seemed to be so excited in the beginning ).

[Skill006]

weeeelllllll, there's the fact this game consists mostly of text walls, and they are quite horrifying to my eyes and very tiring to read.

Is there a better way to post so that its not so tiring to read?

At this point, I'm reverting to just my Raw Frosty Instinct^tm, which has failed me very few times in the past.

It fails you today.

[Skill006]

He's not done anything D2, considering the amount of wind being blown from him D1, I would have felt there would be much more activity from him this day.

I don't see why him being suspicious day 1 should make him post more

[Skill006]

sarnath'd

[Skill006]

weeeelllllll, there's the fact this game consists mostly of text walls, and they are quite horrifying to my eyes and very tiring to read.

Is there a better way to post so that its not so tiring to read?

At this point, I'm reverting to just my Raw Frosty Instinct^tm, which has failed me very few times in the past.

It fails you today.

Do you want me to reply with a wall of text? I'm not sure what kind of answer you're expecting

[Skill006]

Sorry, I was busy yesterday. I have been trying to stay active in the game, but I'm only available at certain times in the day.

Honestly, I don't know why Ray isn't posting anything. It bothers me.

I don't think troll is too busy to come and post here. He just doesn't want to for some reason, and I feel like he's intentionally active lurking.

I don't like how phaen has decided not to say anything in the end.

I don't like how I decided to skip a day. [Sorry!]

And we have our other replacement who needs to catch up.

...I would rather just lynch phaen now before she has to get replaced. Not only is she my top scum read, but I don't want

another

replacement in this game. We have way too many, and its becoming confusing who is who and letting all of them get caught up and everything.

And honestly, it doesn't seem like she's coming back.

My second scum read was jammer, and he just got replaced so...

And then there is jmurph, who I'm not very interested in lynching anymore (in fact I would rather lynch ray at this point).

[Skill006]

Phaen I don't believe is scum, and lynching just because she's been rather quiet is a bad move, D1, fair enough I could somewhat see that if there was nothing else to go on, but D2, in our position, we need someone who looks to be scum, not someone who's just being quiet.

Wait, aren't you pushing for a ray lynch because he's not posting?
Have you even really looked at phaen? Or my case? (or Zorblag's case?)

Why don't you think she is scum? Anything particularly wrong with our cases?

[Skill006]

@Skill, have I looked at your case? Seriously? Who began looking at you?

As for Zorblag, I've already said I'm not entirely sure on him.

I meant my case on phaen. And zorb's case on phaen.

yawn, I took yesterday off from doing anything, sue me you piggy backer!

note that a piggy backer is one that uses the reasoning of another as their reasoning against somebody else.

in this case, that would be skill.

I'm going to have to ask you to calm down, sir.

I wasn't using that as "reasoning" for anything. I just didn't like how you decided not to show up when people were waiting for you (note I also never said this was scummy).

ray, your read on phaen?

[Skill006]

Hold on, I'm here. My computer screen was all red for the past couple of days so I only did extremely essential things as the blinding color was rather irritating.

I read through everything that has happened and I have some input, but I need to go eat dinner now so everyone, just hold your horses for a couple of hours.

[Skill006]

Yesh, you can hold your cat ^_^ I have a cat too (in fact, my cat fixed my red screen problem). Anyway…

I could lynch phaen ...and maybe jmurph if it boiled down to that (not cathart, though, since he just replaced in).

I would be reluctant with ray.

I would be mega reluctant with troll and prana.

@zorb

(kind of a random question): what did you like about jammer’s posts? I can’t remember him posting much content, just stuff about him needing to catch up.

Prana, I don’t think, even with you voting phaen, we have enough support for it.

Is there anyone willing to drop the hammer on phaen? You don’t have to right away, but it might help to see if there is someone who is potentially “on the wagon”.

However, prana, I really don’t like how you keep calling it a “policy lynch”. It’s not. Essentially you were saying that “the case is weak so it doesn’t exist”, and you only want to acknowledge the lurking part, which allows you to call it a “policy lynch” and discredit the case.

Like troll has said, lurking is a great way for scum to get by. They don’t have to risk looking scummy.

Ray and Troll only look scummy because they have talked…correct?
Phaen and jammer do not look as scummy because they have not talked as much and the minimal amount they produce looks good enough…correct?
So if those two lurkers started talking the same amount that ray and zorb have been then perhaps they would look scummier, and perhaps not.

Anyway, my point is, lurkers can get away with stuff that people who talk can’t. The fact that they choose to continue to lurk not only stalls the process, but lets them slide by. It’s not a policy lynch: they are choosing to lurk, which is a great scum tactic, especially if nothing is done about it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

- Her early replacement posts would have been easy to type, as people were already over the stuff she was talking about and nobody would look in depth into her analysis. Not only that, but she can talk about it after the fact of the matter. In my opinion, I think the sole purpose of those posts were to get any suspicions on her, off her, and for a good first impression (which has stuck with most of you).
- Phaen had PLENTY of time to look at other people rather than tunnel on apathy.
- She was a huge advocate of the apathy lynch when he was around. She was a very grumpy camper when he got replaced and his lynch was postponed, probably because she didn’t want to have to have her “scum read” become a neutral read. All of a sudden, when her top suspect turns out to be someone who can defend himself, she steers in a different direction.
- And just because other people may have done things similar to the aforementioned, doesn’t mean hear actions are justified. It all lies with motive.

Yesterday Phaen was pushing the Apathy lynch (and helping get information from him), which was a strong one at the time.

Had stated she wasn't up for lynching fuzzy, and yeah, that's about the size of it. This day phase she's not done much, and yeah, that doesn't amount to a large amount.
However... are we meant to lynch people who are, in our opinion, playing the scummiest, or are we to lynch the people who "are doing the least"?

Just because someone "appears" to be trying to find scum, doesn't necessarily mean they are.

And just because someone has essentially vanished, doesn't mean that they are scum, as opposed to town.

Doesn't this leave room for suspicion on phaen then?

[Skill006]

I may have forgotten your feelings on whether Ray was a worthy lynch, however that still had no bearing on my voting decision Zorb. But I do appreciate it being pointed out just in case. Better to be safe than sorry and all that.

Wait, why not?

[Skill006]

hmm...I don't know if I agree with you, but we can save that for day 3. ('cause I think I would have to dig up all of his posts for my case, and I don't think now is an appropriate time to do that. Especially since I have a couple of other things to do tonight.)

[Skill006]

If it came down to Phaen lynch or no lynch, I would drop the hammer.

Would you be reluctant to do so? Or do you think there's nothing more waiting for today?

[Skill006]

Hello there, smashbro_of_the_SSS
Has anyone ever told you how annoying it is to type that whole name?

I think we should lynch phaen before she gets replaced, IMO. I don't want the deadline to be pushed back even further, and there have been enough replacments in this game already.

Not only that, but I think most of us have run out of things to say.

[Skill006]

Well, its not that I want a quicklynch so that I can get my top suspect killed or not give smash [or other replacment if we have to get one] a chance, I just don't really want a replacement.

Anyhow, I thought you were ok with the phaen lynch at this point. I thought that if we’re ready to lynch, then we should lynch. If you feel something more could be done today, then I don’t mind waiting/discussing more.

My first thought when I posted that was that smashbro could catch up through the night and on day 3 and post his thoughts then, but I forgot that he's a player in the game now and he should have the chance to weigh his thoughts on what's been going.

Even so, I'm not exactly going crazy for a phaen replacment. I feel like we've had a bunch of replacements already and another one wouldn't be a "fresh pair of eyes" as you put it, but a poor victim set to read some 30 pages of text.

Maybe I'm just starting to lose faith in this 'replacment system'

[Skill006]

I like the promptness ^_^

Promise I'll post an actual response tomorrow~

[Skill006]

phaen BW has

2.5

supporters.
Skill BW has

4

strong voters.

Skill could easily become the more viable lynch, if town wanted me to be.

~~~smashbro's case~~~

I'm sorry that I forgot you were a player, but its true. I have gotten into this mindset of "replacements are just there to take up a player slot and they are never really going to catch up". We started trudging towards the end of the day without waiting up for col.cathart or phaen (well, I should say

I

wasn't waiting for them, I dunno about anyone else), so I kind of started to ignore replacements.

That's also why I didn't, and still kind of don't, want a phaen replacement. Although, you have boosted the reputation of replacements for me, so I'm considering whether I would be ok with it or not.

Like I said to prana, I tried using the "I'm bad at mafia" thing in my last game, and it did not go well, so I try not to use it in games I'm in now. I add it in there just because I like to let people know what kind of person I am. I suppose you can never really know for yourself, but...that's as best as I can defend myself there.

My 'contradiction' is partly because it was early in the game and I felt that the ray lynch came waaaay too quickly when half the town hadn't posted, as opposed to now, where we are at the end of the day, debating on who we should lynch before forced into a no lynch or a replacement.

I explained the no vote thing (you prob. haven't gotten there yet, though), but I can explain it again; I thought troll was waiting for something [specifically, phaen].

Phaen is not a policy lynch.

"Get a policy lynch through because I can"...? At the time I posted my suspicions on phaen, I had little to no influence on the town, and everyone proceeded to ignore my case on her (besides troll and jmurph).

~~~Note of attendance~~~

I have had a lot of hw this week, but I should be free next week and the week after that one (granted I'm still alive) because of spring break. I doubt I will be very active this particular week, though.

[Skill006]

Argh, I posted before I saw kison's post @_@

Hiya Perez!

[Skill006]

For those that were there than and are here now would you say that your reactions have been about the same? If they're different what would you attribute that to?

Haha, I'm totally reacting differently now than I was before. I never got myself as involved in the apathy case as I am now, so consequently I didn't mind an apathy replacement all too much. Now, not only is my patience for replacements thin, but I'm more involved, so its a bit...tiring, I guess.

Even so, I expect great things from Perez ^_^ (my english teacher's name is Mr. Perez, so I'm wondering if you'll be as sarcastic as him)

[Skill006]

v/la until around Thursday or Friday

I'm sorry, I know its not very good timing, but I have a bunch of hw to catch up on and I'm behind on a super extensive research paper.
I hope that I'll be present before the deadline, but no promises.

Also, don't wait for me if I don't post by Friday.

[Skill006]

Hey guys, sorry about ditching you for homework ^.^;

At first I thought, "oh, only a couple of pages, I'll be fine...", but when I actually looked through I was like "whoa 0_0;;"

So, I'm in the process of catching up right now. Because my top two scum reads have been replaced, I need to consider who I would want to lynch a little more deeply before my top lynch candidates.

I think the main lynch candidates right now are:
1. RayFrost
2. Zorblag
3. Me
4. Anybody else that has minimal suspicion at the moment.

I would be ok with a jmurph lynch and a perez lynch, but smash doesn't seem like he has had much of a chance to post, as compared to perez anyway. I would like a chance to collect my thoughts and catch up before throwing anything else out there.

[Skill006]

Ah, forgot.

unvote

While I catch up ^_^

[Skill006]

For me this is all it takes. I think it’s important to see what people did at the beginning and not forget their actions. Wouldn’t you agree (I’m not sure if you’ve answered this and if you have I apologize) that her changing her vote twice and then not voting at all on D1 is a very good reason to be suspicious? Not having voted with her partner in order to make sure one of them was somewhat protected is a reasonable explanation as to why she hadn’t voted.

It may be a reasonable explanation, but its not only not the right explanation but its not the only explanation [possible].

In regards to your long post to help town... that too, at this stage, is WIFOM.

For one moment, try not to link that post with him. The info is valid and you should really try considering them, whether you think troll is town or not. It feels like you're putting the real information of his posts into a block and using it against him rather than what it was intended for.

I understand why you think its WIFOM, and I can see why you find it scummy, but I also think that its not a very good reason to lynch him.

I'm pretty sure the intentions of his posts aren't to confuse us with WIFOM jargon, but to help open our minds to different possibilities, as a lot of times this town (generally speaking, this doesn't go for everyone, of course) can be fairly narrow-minded. Not only are we narrow-minded, but we're very stubborn in who we think is scum, and don't really listen to the other side of the argument (rather, we just keep arguing against it).

I'm not saying its a town tell on troll, because its not. I just don't want the stuff in his post to be ignored because its really good.

I feel was trying to push a policy lynch through (while appearing to be scum hunting and hiding the policy behind weak reasons).

Even if

you

thought she was a policy lynch, I don't think she was, and I never thought she was a policy lynch, and would never have voiced that. My reason was not that she was lurking and we should policy lynch her. The reason why its even called a policy lynch is because you are saying "let's lynch her because that's just our policy." So, how is it that phaen is a policy lynch when we don't even acknowledge the policy part?

I don't think you know what "policy lynch" really means, either that or I'm the confused one.

On a different note...

@everyone:

Why is Ray's change in playstyle scummy? Its strange, and hardly explained, but I can't see how it's scummy.
Is his change in playstyle the only thing pushing this lynch? (I know zorb keeps saying Ray's answers weren't very good, I'll go back and look at that.)

What do you have to say about Ray's disappearance until now or Prana and jmurph3 wanting to go after Zorblag?

Despite what everyone says, I'm not convinced that his disappearance is that much of a scumtell. At least, until they can convince me otherwise.

However, if he's going to continue to disappear, than he will be a useless player and I wouldn't mind lynching him (then again, there is always the replacement option, but like I said, I'm losing faith in that system).

Alrighty, I'm not sure how I would order my suspicions/people I'm ok with lynching, but here they are:

Perez

(carried over stuff from phaen, although I feel a bit hesitant about lynching him as his posts seem decent enough for now, in all honestly I haven't taken a very close look at them, and I'm not sure when I'm planning to do so.)

jmurph3

(because of always waiting for a green light to start on how she thinks about things)

Possibly Ray

, because of his disappearance which doesn't help town.

I'm a little hesitant on the smash lynch just because I haven't had the chance to look at him either, and the reason jammer was scummy was becuase of his obvious active lurking style (although it could've been RL issues or posting style in general)

My head is starting to hurt a bit, probably from all of the massive assignments I did all last night, which was why this post was so slow in the coming...so I'm gonna go chill.

[Skill006]

...O_O
He was frozen in a block of ice...I wonder if prana has seen that yet XD

Anyway, like I said earlier, I am a vanilla townie. Nothing special here.

That leaves just smashbro to claim.

[Skill006]

The Ray lynch felt rushed, and almost like a policy lynch.

If there's any kind of case I'm missing, please let me know. And also, I don't think my question got answered yesterday. My question was,

"why is changing playstyle scummy?"

Right at the moment, I feel smashbro is most likely scum.

I'll explain why later, just wanted to throw that out there. Now, there's something I realized I have to go do right now, so I'll be seeing everybody later ^_^

[Skill006]

CRAP NO! I just lost my whole post ‘cause I clicked on the stupid Google search button GAARARR

*sigh. I will now commence in trying to retype that whole post I was working on.

@jmurph: basically, this new case on me is because of my trying to push a perez lynch. And, according to you, the lynch was not going to go anywhere, and scum-me would not have to worry about lynching my assumed scum-buddy, perez.

Well, first of all, when you say prana had “disagreed strongly with the phaen lynch”, do you realize that prana voted phaen? I would not have been able to predict whether prana, or anybody, was going to vote for phaen. So, you’re assuming that I was assuming that I knew people were not going to vote for phaen, and it would be an easy way to distance, which is a lot of assuming and just plain weak.

Not only that, but you hardly have a scum read on perez. You strongly opposed the lynch then, but now that he fits where you want him to, he deserves suspicion? Hmmm…

---

It’s hard to say who I’m suspicious of right now. Last night I had this unshakable scum read on prana, and all of my notes were dedicated to if prana was scum. Of course, that’s all absolutely dead to me now

Like I said before, smashbro was my top scum read right now (though I’m not absolutely sure I have any kind of order).

It mostly has to do with jammer’s posting. He had a persistence in active lurking that allowed him to stay well in the background, especially in situations when he could jump on to popular BWs.

A lot of jammer’s posts didn’t have very much content, and when there was content, it was stuff he was just throwing out there, as if to push it either way, and never really took a stance (like Ray said). It’s easy to make posts like that. I feel like he was just coasting along.

As for smashbro, well, his posts seem decent enough. However, he only ever posted thoughts on me and Ray. Not really sure where he sits right now. I need to look more in depth into what he has said, so I guess most of my scum read is coming from jammer’s posting style.

My scum read yesterday was perez/phaen. It still holds true.

However, I also don’t like how jmurph has been posting. There has been stuff from the past two days that, at first, I thought was a newb town-tell. However, when no one emphasized a scum read on her following the prana green light signal, she keeps trailing along under his shadow. Only when people started to vote/FoS her for it did she try and reform her play-style (which is a possible attempt for getting town points).

Not only this, but whenever she was going to go one direction, she would stop, and say she was going to wait to hear what everyone else had to say before posting her stance. I believe this is copyrighted material from troll :b

As for perez, his posts are really long so I’ll admit I skimmed them a bit . Ima gonna go look through them in a bit, as well as smashbro’s posts.

[Skill006]

By thinking I'm scum and partnering me with perez may skew your actual reads on us, especially perez.

Its very possible that I am scum buddies with smash or troll, and its also very likely (and true) that I'm not scum.

I know there was the case on me from yesterday, but frankly, you didn't agree with that case. I'm not buying it if you suddenly say "Oh, I reread it and so now its good," because its a great time for you to be changing your mind.

So, I'd like to see this other part of the case you have on me (although, I understand its Easter time, so don't cut into an important time if it is important)

[Skill006]

Perez, you're posts are filled, but a lot of your information is really generalized.

Votes don't make people's alignments. I know I didn't vote at the end of the day yesterday, but that's because I was kinda confused about the case on Ray (I still am).

I would have realized by now that people don't like it when I don't vote if I were scum. Seeing as how Ray is a townie, I would have voted him (if I was scum) so that there would be a mislynch and we would go into LyLo.

But including your predecessors,[perez], my belief that jmurf and skill probably aren't a scum team, and my slight town read from zorb right now, that puts you under suspicion.

So you think that either me and perez are a scum team or jmurph and perez are a scum team? hmm...

How is it that me and jmurph don't seem likely in comparison to me and perez (I pushed for perez's lynch mid-day 2).

---

Also alot of quotes, you're not alone

- Bad at scum hunting (Possible cover?)

I said I wasn't going to use this as a cover, and I haven't yet...have I? (Excuses come to me naturally, unfortunately...)

- Has done no voting since RVS.

Please explain how not voting is scummy.

- Solely defending people, not hunting (Possibly trying to keep everyone on side?)

Done.

- Refuses to jump on a bandwagon, even when she "knows" the victim is scum.

I explained this, I'll link to it if you want.

I agree with this. At the time, I didn't make much of it, but reading back over the D1 and D2 things, it seemed like a very odd way to start D2, especially since Prana did support both wagons towards the end of the day, as he himself noted. It seems like a weird way to try and provoke a reaction, especially since there was a lot more to concentrate on than something like that.

And as I had noted, he seemed to have suspicion everywhere, so he could virtually move his vote to any place he wanted (and at the time that I posted that, I didn't realize that he had suspicion on fuzzy prior to his vote). Not only that, but it wasn't really the focus of my post, so I don't know why you're saying "there was more important things to focus on".

This seems to be completely contradictory.

But it's not. It was very circumstantial. I didn't want phaen replaced because not only did phaen not have a replacement already, but I started losing faith in the replacement system by that time (didn't seem to do the game much justice because of replacements throughout day 2 who sat idly and gave us more null tells).

mm...eh. I'll answer to the jammer case too. Only jammer ever questioned it as far as I can remember.

it truly seemed like an attempt to seem like scumhunting and seem like giving input without having to take a stance on the actual issues that we were voting on. And that, to me, is problematic.

I most certainly could have made the case on jammer earlier in the day, which would have made me look more town earlier on (and first impressions are lasting impressions). However, I only made that case so late because that was when I had thought of it.

I'm procrastinating a bit with this game, so I haven't gotten a chance to reread like I have been promising to. But, I'll get to it as soon as I can ^_^

[Skill006]

Sorry guys, the computer hasn't been as available as I would like it to be. My activity level is probably going to be minimal for the weekend.

Scum wouldn't vote against their own if they want to win. Scum would try to avoid voting to cause a no-lynch and be that much closer to winning.

Scum don't have vote against each other. In fact, it would be best for scum to have as little say about each other as possible.

The last few lynches for these days have been townies. I would have known that as scum. I would have voted them to assure their lynches, because mis-lynches help scum (more dead townies). I don't see how no-lynches help scum win.

I understand that as a townie, no-lynches don't help. I'm not trying to push for no-lynches, despite my vote record, and I don't see how it makes me look scummy (especially this day 2 one).

[Skill006]

Scum most definitely can and will vote for each other if 1) just to throw off suspicion for both of them working together without leaving that vote to the end day or 2) If one team member is getting a lot of flak from all the other townies, they'll jump on board in lynching their team mate to throw off everyone during the next day. It's unlikely but not unheard of at all.

I see what you're saying, but it doesn't really apply to me

Again, no-lynches only helps scum since it's another day one of them won't be lynched. Sure they'll want to push for an innocent to be lynched but a no-lynch is just as good if the former can't be reached. And for townies, no lynches means not killing an innocent but also means not killing scum. I believe not taking a shot at someone is the worst thing for townies and as you said no-lynches do not help townies. Saying they don't help scummy/make you look scummy is just ignoring the fact that no-lynches only help scum.

I also see what you're saying here, but why would I push for a no-lynch in the circumstance that I could have hammered fuzzy or ray? Why would I push for a mislynch when one of those two could have easily been lynched by my vote? Whoever you think my scumbuddy is can't be ray or fuzzy, and those were the two that could've been easily pushed for had I been scum, and it would be stupid of scum-me to just sit back and hope for a no-lynch so that "town gains no info", because obviously all of the town is going to be voting for people.

There's another reason why I wasn't voting, but it's only an "excuse for bad play".

I think the way you want to describe me is anti-town, because I do realize that lynches help town, and I do know that's the only way to catch scum, but it's not scummy to not vote, and you aren't clarifying yourself very well, so I'm not exactly convinced as to why you think my non-voting was scummy.

So, in your games perez, the scum were not voting? Wasn't that because the rest of the town wasn't voting? So, why do you think they weren't voting, to push for a mis-lynch, or to blend in? And who do you think has done a good job of blending in, seeming like a townie, and pushing for lynches of innocent townies and is responsible for putting us into this LyLo position?

Can you explain why, in my particular case, not voting would benefit scum?

[Skill006]

Firstly, on D1, it could have caused a mislynch.

Uh, no. It couldn't have. In fact, it didn't. Don't know what you're talking about.

Secondly, on D2, in spite being confused about the Ray case, she still took her vote off towards the end of the day. Why? This shouldn't have anything to do with the Ray case. If she thought Ray wasn't scum, she should have argued for him not to be lynched, rather than just asking questions. Instead, she removed the pressure from anyone and let town shoot itself in the foot. This does not seem very town-like, and coupled with her other non-voting, seems decidedly scummy.

I took my vote off because I wasn't sure what was said in the thread while I was gone, and I wanted to catch up. And I didn't oppose the ray lynch, he was third on my list, so why would I argue against everyone like you explain I should've? If i had voted him, it would've been the hammer, and I wasn't ready for his lynch at that point (didn't understand the case on him, yada yada).

Anyhow, jmurph, you still haven't answered my question. Why was Ray's change in playstyle scummy?

[Skill006]

@both perez and jmurph, my supposed scum buddy isn't going to find themselves out for you. Why don't you try looking at other players in this game, rather than trying to convince us that I'm scum (through a fairly weak argument).

[Skill006]

EBWOP I try to stay away from being a hypocrite, so I'll be doing just what I've asked you two to do as well, when I get the chance ^_^ Oh, and sorry for this string of posts.

[Skill006]

I'm reconsidering my suspicions. I'm a bit more weak on my previous read on smashbro now. Last night, all of my suspicions were focused on prana, like I had said, but of course he's dead now so that kills those suspicions.

Next in line during the night phase was jammer/smashbro, but it was more jammer than smashbro. I still haven't taken a look at smashbro's posting, but once I do I'll be able to develop a better read on him. However, I don't like how smash is staying signifigantly in the background, and posting thoughts after everyone else does.

So, my current suspicions lie with jmurph. Just for the moment though, its kinda tentative (high activity is unusual play for scum, I think. Although, she got hit pretty badly for lurking early on, so that may have taught her to do better).

The reason is because of her switch in suspicions from day 2.

Skill is only up there because I dislike her disappearing so close to deadline (I know it's a real-life issue, but still). I still don't think I would vote for her at this point. I think that her play overall has been a lot more consistent D2, and I don't think that her waffling on D1 is enough to merit my vote yet.

So...what has changed? Oh, the fact that scum only needs one more mislynch and they win, so may as well go after the easy target, right?

Smash is up there at number 2 because I'm not sure how I feel about the way he's acted thus far in this game. He votes for Skill then calls Ray scummy but doesn't vote for him until there seems to be enough support for it.

He's #2 on your list. Where'd this go? And how did I shoot above him on your suspicion list? (sorry if you explained it already as I know you hate repeating yourself but I honestly must have missed it).

Oh, and don't forget about the suspicion on Zorblag from yesterday. That totally just disappeared. I wonder why. Maybe because her Zorby-hunting partner [prana] is gone, or maybe because there are waaay easier targets to go after [me].

Your reason for doubting suspicion from yesterday was because "the info he had to offer is good, I didn't really see it there before". I'm sure.

ZORBLAG IS FAIRLY EXPERIENCED, OF COURSE THE INFO IS GOOD. SCUM CAN ALSO SPOUT OUT INFO LIKE THAT AND IT SHOULDN'T CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT THE WIFOM CONCEPT.

Besides, your case was "the timing of the WIFOM", if I remember correctly. So, basically, you put together some weak reason for changing your mind (which didn't have all that much to do with your previous case in the first place), say "my town read on zorby is tentative", and POOF, the suspicion is gone, leaving room for just that one mislynch you need.

Oh yeah, and your case on me is a buncha quotes from the past couple days backed by little bits of your own. Which, you in fact

did

say, was not lynch-worthy.

So, all in all,

FoS: jmurph

(would be a vote in better circumstances, but as our mayor says, we need to deliberate )

[Skill006]

The only parts that were being pushed on Skill yesterday was the jammer case and a lack of posting. Those were neither enough good reason for me to vote.

There was more than that. The case you have on me right now is everything from day 1 and 2. The case on me yesterday was everything from day 1 and 2. I don't see the difference.

Firstly, I don't see how amending my suspicions is scummy.

It's not the "amending your suspicions" that's scummy, it's how you amended your suspicions. Basically, with the flick of your wrist you said "Zorby's WIFOM has some merit to it" and you targeted someone else. There was more to your case than the WIFOM, but you instantly turn away from those suspicions to target someone else.

If this is apparently scummy to go back through and refine my arguments, then I think you don't know how this game is played.

Its not, but the timing of it is.

My mind isn't changed about the WIFOM concept, thanks. I'd like to think that I'm intelligent enough to recognize that scum can use WIFOM tactics to distract the town. I also think that it's not helpful at this point to keep pushing that without further evidence, and I don't think it puts Zorb at the top of my list anymore, so until Zorb actually posts something today, I'm keeping my opinion in check.

Ok, this makes sense.

Look, your case on me comes across as more or less OMGUS.

I can see how you would want to blame me for that, but its not OMGUS. OMGUS stands for Oh my god you suck, which is apparently a sufficient case for OMGUS users, but I actually have solid reasons to suspect you.

Call my bunch of quotes useless if you will, but I think it makes a convincing argument.

They're not useless. Don't bash yourself (I hope I didn't call them useless, I often get kinda sarcastic without meaning to).

and Zorb was and remains to be scummy.

You can say "he is scummy" all you want, but I still feel you're trying to avoid picking a fight with him.

You are the most scummy.

The most anti-town, actually, which I'm trying to fix, but its hard for me.

You've offered no valid defense for your actions.

Yeah, I have a defense but not really a valid one. I'm not saying your reasons for suspecting me are bad, I hope you know. They're just perfectly utilized at the right timing (I happen to be the most scummy in LyLo).

By the way, why would you say that the case on you is an easy lynch? Clearly you're acknowledging that most of what you've done this game is scummy, or else no one would beyond me would be convinced or your scumminess.

... Didn't you just answer your own question?

At this point, with the way you reacted in your last post, I'm more convinced than ever that you are scum.

oh. Well, despite it looking like OMGUS to you (which it is not), I have very valid points against you that convince me that

you

are scum. Honestly. I know, they seem like they have popped out of nowhere. But let's see if anyone else agrees with me.

@everyone else, what do you think of my case on jmurph?

[Skill006]

I may be somewhat busy this week. I'll try to post as frequently as I can, but I'm feeling doubtful in my potential to do that.

[Skill006]

@perez you're completely tunneling on me right now, which is either an indicator of desperate scum who wants to get me lynched, scum who's too lazy to find other reads, or a townie who's thought process I can't understand right now. Have any other stabs at scum? (besides "its either zorb or smash because its not jmurph").

I don't think you have really looked at the case on jmurph, either that or you did and you're choosing to sneakily shift away from it. Look at this quote:

As for what you've said about jmurph, yeah her focus changed from Zorb (now on you) and it seems that you could believe that to be scummy?

Well, I believe for myself that you are the obvious scum choice because you've kept responding to jmurph3 and my arguments against you and I don't think it's changed my view on you.

However, Zorb has been completely absent for awhile and I think the only reason I'm not really saying much regarding him is because I'm waiting for him to post again to see his views. I already talked about his posts and thoughts on them and there isn't anymore I can add to that.

I think him or Smash are the other scum partner and I believe strongly that you are also scum. Since I can't pick apart Zorblag or Smash (at least Smash posted he'd be gone and how long(and I expect him to start making more posts then since he's going to need to give a stronger opinion eventually)) since they aren't here.

Is this an answer to my question, "what do you think of my case on jmurph?", because if it is, then you

totally

avoided answering the question, and gave no real stance my actual case.

I knew someone would try to say this about me eventually but I'm surprised it's you.

Why would you be surprised that its jmurph?

Especially since you voted at start of D3 (which I believe to be an inexperienced townie mistake) I have the best town read on you out of anyone else.

What you're calling a town tell here is definitely NOT a town tell. Its not a scum tell either, of course. Its just...not a tell at all. Just a mistake (regardless of alignment)

Actually, it just so happens in the newbie game I'm running with them right now there are scum who aren't voting and it wasn't because the rest of the town wasn't voting. It was because the rest of the town were voting for the wrong person and had enough for a lynch without their help. In essence sitting back out of that lynch caused for the rest of the townies to split their views on scum between the lynchers and the ones not voting since they didn't vote out a townie. It can happen. Is that what's happening here? Maybe, but I still state that not voting by two days ends after having changed votes a few times is quite scummy to me.

Wow...this honestly did not occur to me, but you're absolutely right. And I suppose it wouldn't be wrong of you to suspect me for that...interesting.

As for your scum buddy not finding themselves out? There is still D4 to do that if you are scum and I believe you are.

Again, wow... Seriously? I can't see how a townie would think like this, and I feel like all day my suspicions are flipping back and forth, but man, this just stands out as scummy. There won't be a day 4 if you lynch the wrong person. Why would you wait until what could be imaginary for us? Why not look for the scum NOW? If you think I am scum, look for who my buddy might be NOW, because you may not get another chance.

Your confidence in me being scum, so confident that you feel like you could lynch me and "look for the buddy tomorrow," puts you up my scum list.

I'm also sorry for being away a few days, just got into college and I'm in the middle of moving.

Congrats! ^_^

And don't worry, you're not the only one who's taking a vacation from this game. We've all had our share of inactivity, even jmurph.

[Skill006]

As I turn it around in my head, I'm starting to become more and more certain perez and jmurph are the scum buddies at work here.

@mod: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let's get a replacement for Zorblag! I feel alone!

[Skill006]

Looking for a Zorblag replacement. Standby.

Thank you! ^_^

[Skill006]

Hello, elscouta! Kind of a bad game to replace into (walls of text), but we needed one badly so thanks ^_^

I think Perez and I both are tunneling on you a bit at the moment, mostly because of circumstances that are beyond our control (i.e. the fact that nobody else is here).

Why are you grouping yourself with perez? Perez is here, isn't he? Besides, there's still stuff from day 2 you can look back at. Like the lynch, which seems to provide so much information (and yet you've taken only one piece of info from it).

While I agree that Perez did not answer your question, firstly, he doesn't have to answer any and every question that you put out there.

I know that, but he attempted to answer it, or made it seem like he was answering it when he really just shifted the focus off of the case and moved on to something diff., without answering the question.

Secondly, I think his staunch assurance that he thinks I'm town (----) answers your question.

No, actually, it doesn't. I posted my case after he had posted his stance, so my case had potential in changing his mind. At any rate, the question was more geared towards the other two (though I did expect him to answer, of course).

Hey now, let's not get ahead of ourselves, shall we? While I'm all for noting what people said, you're misconstruing what Perez said.

Wow. I feel really stupid, and there's no way I'm gonna convince you that I didn't connect the last line with the first line, as the middle section made it seem like he was talking about something totally different, and so I thought he was just rambling about other things like prana often did.

Sorry perez, those scum tells I pinned on you are totally invalid. Guess I should've read a bit more in depth.

Also, as I've mentioned before, though I don't know whether or not Perez is using this logic, the lynch today will reveal information that just going through the day would not, provided we're lynching the correct person, so D4 is a perfect time to get that all out there and get the other scum. Also, if we lynch scum today, provided there is a night kill, which I don't know why there wouldn't be, it will be 2 town against 1 scum, which will make it much easier to weed out who the other scumbuddy is.

The lynch doesn't seem to provide much information for you, so I don't know why that would excite you to get to tomorrow, especially with the danger that I might be town and you don't seem to have any other scum reads.

Skill006 : (15) Claim townie

Yah. oops.

Skill006 : (48) WTF? So you claim townie, but then you explain that you believed RF was role fishing and you attack him for that? This attack sounds extremely fake.

It kinda was. It was still in the RVS.

Skill006 : (141) "Loner" style. Bleh. Forgetting your previous attack on Rayfrost?

...hnm? Not sure what this refers to.

Skill006 : (145) Daykill : Skill006. Seriously?

^_^

I would still like to know the reasons behind Skill calling RF town.

I never called him town.

[Skill006]

Oh yeah, and i like your first post elscouta. Keep it up (that is, don't fall behind).

[Skill006]

Really sorry for not being around. I had a lot of hw over the weekend, and other excuses there too. But, whatever.

@smash: is that really all you have to say after being gone so long and now expecting to be gone so long again? Please tell me you have more to contribute than that.

I couldn't get your stance, either, and you're being very wishywashy. You just responded to a couple of things and then left, and I don't know who you would be willing to lynch. Not helping town.

Anyway, you picked out some of the weakest points from the case on me:

[1.]~~~ During Day 2, she promoted a policy lynch before replacements came. It seems scummy because this increases the chance of a Lylo coming into Day 3, instead of going after a scummy read.
[2.]~~~ She, at the beginning of the day, started off with excuses that she is not a good scum hunter, before much had happened. It seemed to preemptively set other's expectations low for her ability to help find scum.
[3.]~~~ also, the lack of voting but pushing lynches has been a scumtell. While not placing a vote isn't necessarily scummy, it seems that she votes, retracts, and pushes until a lynch happens.

1. PHAEN WAS NOT A POLICY LYNCH FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME. What makes you think she was a policy lynch? Because Prana said so? Phaen honestly was my scum read for the day, and I felt that she was the best lynch. We don't need to puch every lynch to deadline.

2. Hmmm...Have I used that excuse ONCE to my advantage? I said that in the beginning in hopes you would get a bit of my personality, and like I said, I tried using it as an excuse in one of my last games and I totally killed myself with that (well, that's exaggerating a bit, but it felt like that).

3. ...Not really. Which lynch did I do that with? I haven't pushed for many of the popular ones. Even if I have...well...there have been specific reasons why I haven't been voting.

(btw, I'm sorry my tone is suddenly getting a lot more aggressive. It's nothing against you, smash, just felt I should try on my aggressive voice for a change).

@elscouta: I never started a case on prana, did I? I think my "opportunistic" comment snowballed into something bigger than I wanted it to. It was a simple observation that I didn't really intend to make sound like an accusation.

I also don't recall me and jmurph buddying, but I need to go back and actually look at that post you're talking about.

Yah, and it did seem like the RF lynch was rushed. Not because the day was short, but the discussion revolving around him was short and well-agreed upon. It was kinda weird, and the town has been doing it a lot (despite our hesitation to vote anybody). Didn't anybody else get a rushed feeling from that lynch, or is it just me because I was gone for that period of time?

Umm...if there's anything else I need to respond to, I'll do it later as I have to go do something school-ish now (sigh).

Please don't hesitate to ask questions. Don't lynch me. bai.

[Skill006]

Hnmm...This isn't cool. No idea what to do in a situation like this...

Don't want to lynch elscouta.

I can lynch any of the other three at this point, though, as all three have had their share of scumtells (and I have been so wishy washy on all of them that its so hard to tell...)

Order of scum picks: smashbro, perez, jmurph (Switched from the last time I posted, but like I said I have been pretty wishy washy about the order).

I could vote perez, if that's the way we're going. In fact:

vote: perez

Better him than me. If anybody else is on, I highly suggest they throw their vote out. Or say something.

[Skill006]

EBWOP: I would rather vote smashbro, but I don't think elscouta's online now so perez it is (I'm fine with his lynch too, I've had some kind of a scum read on his slot throughout the game).

I know I’ve been pushing for your lynch pretty hard but just this simply made me smile. It really cheered me up on what has otherwise been a very crummy week. Thank you. This still doesn’t change that I believe you are scum but honestly you’ve made me smile so thanks.

That's good to hear I'm glad I could help.

[Skill006]

@perez: I'm voting you because elscouta's not coming back from his sleep until tomorrow, and he's voting you. I honestly think smash is also a better choice, but if he's scum and jmurph's scum, then I don't think we could get a lynch in.

I'm going to actually

unvote

for now. I know, it's practically deadline, but I want to see if we can garner support for a smash lynch.

[Skill006]

No clue. But, I forgot that times are different for all of us.

And anyway, even if jmurph is around, I find it unlikely that she would vote for smash.

But I want to see what she'll say.

[Skill006]

uhh...jmurph?
Why the vote on perez (if that even is a vote)?

[Skill006]

perez, maybe she was trying to quick lynch you.

I really don't like the way she did that.

[Skill006]

...

...

...

vote: jmurph3

[Skill006]

That's the problem. Its a lose-lose situation for the game, now that 2 members have disappeared and one of them is the one I'm trying to vote.

There's one alternative for me, and thats to vote you, but I'm pretty sure you're town after what just happened.

As for you...well...not much you can do except vote whoever and hope somebody comes back.

[Skill006]

agh...sarnath'd

[Skill006]

even with that in mind, I'm gonna vote her.

I'm still working on what might come next.

scum=smash and jmurph, I think.

[Skill006]

wow...this kinda sucks.

Now what?

YOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO...elscouta...move your vote...

please...

[Skill006]

Slim chance...I think jmurph is buddies with smashbro, but its better than yelling to the mountains so:

unvote, vote: smashbro

[Skill006]

Oh yeah, and don't worry about the "judging scum" thing...I am clearly a lot worse at it, as my suspicions were flailing from person to person, never really staying in one spot.

And, you did right to suspect me, to be frank. I played horribly in this game, even worse than in my first one.

Sorry mod, but I can't help but talk like its endgame. Its either me, perez, or no lynch at this point, all of which pretty much spell certain doom for the town (I think).

[Skill006]

Haha...this really is a no win situation...

[Skill006]

Oh right, shouldn't push out the possibility that you're scum with jmurph and that this is all some manipulative plan to drive me insane and think the whole town is mafia...

Wow, I would have to give you some credit if you are scum, just for this very recent play

[Skill006]

If I was scum, I would have no idea who my buddy would be. I felt very...alone in this game.

And yeah, I don't know how I would've lived as scum... If I was scum, my partner would've bussed me long ago.

[Skill006]

...Well, where I am right now, its only 11:05, so not sure if its deadline or not.

Doesn't seem to matter much, anyway. Kison's not on.

[Skill006]

simul-posted (again...sigh)

Ok, I need to head to sleep too. Hopefully town'll magically win by tomorrow

Wow...hard to imagine this game finally being over.

[Skill006]

Hey...Looks like we might just win

(if smashbro indeed is scum. Can't imagine what else).

Now we just wait for the mod.

[Skill006]

...so, do we lynch jmurph tomorrow?

Or do we continue with the deliberations, and continue to lengthen this game to its limits?

Or do you think that smash is innocent and we have made a grave mistake?

By the way, we totally need a prod on the mod. Kison, are you around?

For that matter, jmurph are you around? Would you like to defend your actions at all?

[Skill006]

0_0 Holy crap perez, you totally had me fooled at that last part. I was so sure that jmurph was scum there, and smashbro was her partner. I thought this was gonna be a game I was going to win. Oh well, if town had won, we would've won purely by luck :/

Well, congratulations to our mafia team! Perez and smashbro, ya both did really good, especially on that last day! jammer, phaen, and everyone else did good in the beginning, too (Although, of course, I totally knew you guys were scum XD)

Smashbro, I think, did a good job of staying in the background. It was hard to find anything really that scummy about him, except for his lack of posting. Jammer was the same, actually (I've always found lurking to be a big scum tell, especially in newbie games).

Perez, you did good at convincing me you were a townie (darn you for totally tricking me like that, I'm too gullible XD) Had I not unvoted, we would have a day 4. Darn it, jmurph had the right idea.

jmurph I felt was fairly consistent in her play. I had a newb town read on her for a good portion of the game, however a lot of zorb's points started convincing me, plus some of the stuff from day 3.

Prana was a really helpful player to town, and really kept this town alive. There were some points I disagreed with him on, but it looks like he's already taken another look at those so, all in all, I'm glad I could play with him. ^_^

It was disappointing to see Ray's activity level drop off in day 2. I guess he's not used to living to day 2 . But still, it would've been nice to have him around more.

It was also really nice to have zorblag in this game. He was the only person I had any kind of support from, and had it not been for him, I would've been lynched in Ray's place (not that it would've made much of a difference, it was just nice to be able to live). It was also really helpful to see his points of view. Glad I could play with him, too.

I know I learned a lot from this game, starting with "put your stinkin' vote on someone, if not just to save your own hide XD" Anyway, any feedback and/or suggestions on my play are appreciated (I really need them).

And thanks Kison for modding the game. It was really unique with the death scenes and everything. If I ever mod a game, I think I'll add pics too (maybe. Its a cool idea).

This was a really great cast of people to play with, despite the game dragging on so long; though, I'm getting used to that, as every game I'm in, the lynch is dragged to deadline ^.^;. I hope there'll be more games to play in with you guys

[Skill006]

2. Policy lynches aren't necessarily a bad thing. Even if they are, wanting to lynch an inactive player for things that they did before disappearing isn't a policy lynch. That Skill006 and I were accused of pushing a policy lynch so often and by so many (and had it presented as a negative thing) was frustrating to me (and I'm pretty sure she feels the same.)

This is true.

It's interesting that this game all of the replacements (except for those in my player spot) were made by scum.

Wow..That is kinda weird. And you bring up a good point. Like I have said, lurking is a big scum tell to me, especially if they're doing it effectively.

And yeah, smash's slot had like forty replacements, that didn't exactly help XD Ah well, what can you do

[Skill006]

Losing this game calls for a new avatar.

[Skill006]

I had all but given up on staying in the game up until jmurph3 botched that last vote and Skill took that as a quick lynch, something that didn't even occur to me at all. If Skill hasn't brought that up, I would have given up.

Gah. I always find a way to totally screw it over for town XD

Sorry for being a lying jerk =\

Don't worry about it, that's what you had to do I was the gullible one, anyway lol

All that said, I don't think I'll be participating in another game soon. Didn't realize how stressful all you guys have it.

That's exactly how I felt about my first game and this game, too, and I'm glad the pressure didn't drive you to replace out. But, you really should try another game some time soon, chances are you'll end up with a townie role, which I can imagine being somewhat less pressured (I wouldn't know though, never been scum )

Sorry for my seemingly random vote of Perez. I had reread everything, going off of Elscouta's point about smash and Perez possibly being a scumteam. I still thought Skill was scummy, with her scumbuddy being Perez, and the only other viable team to me was Perez and smash. I decided to go with the one who was on both teams. And since I was in a rush, I apparently failed (facepalm) at even casting a legitimate vote. Everything is ok with me, I was not feeling well and therefore wanted to get my vote out there before going and passing out for the night (I knew I wasn't going to make it til the deadline), which is also why I wasn't online for the vote switching.

Don't worry about it. The vote made sense, and if you weren't feeling well, then it's not you who should be blamed At any rate, I shouldn't have been so quick to think you were the scum trying to quick lynch (it apparently didn't occur to Perez that you were trying to quick lynch, so I probably shouldn't have said anything ^.^;

And Kison, thanks for modding! I loved my death scene

Ditto

Disappointed to see town lost.

Haha, sorry. I know you have a pretty good record of winning (or, I think you do...?) I guess this game was a mix of our hesitation and the scum's skill (and their replacing out so much :/), so it was pretty hard.

Also disappointed to know that I'll never know why I was killed.

I was assuming you were going to be NKed, actually, and I thought you were too, when you posted this:

Let's stop with the PBPAs. We're basically telling who the mafia should NK at this point. Keeping some opinions to yourself (your strongest pro-town reads) is a good idea unless otherwise necessary (you're asked directly about the person, defending them etc.).

Everyone was basically like "paltry is definitely town, no doubt in our minds whatsoever" so that probably did it for the scum at that time (jammer and phaen, I believe).

On the whole that's a very good thing. If you can draw night kills as a vanilla townie you're doing a good job in my opinion.

Which is why I'm never NKed XD

[Skill006]

Nearly forgot.
@one of the scummies: Do you think you could post the QT?

[Skill006]

@perez and phaen: thank you for the quick topic (and pm exchange)

Didn't realize that not all mods set those up, they're really interesting to look at endgame

Sorry for disappearing, guys. My interests drifted towards different things and this game was really stressing me out. I should have at least sent a PM to Kison asking to be replaced instead of dragging it out...

No worries, I was feeling the same way a lot (and even when I thought I should replace I couldn't bring myself to do it, I had been in the game for the whole time ). There were a lot of times when I got bored of the game too, but next time you start losing so much interest you can't bring yourself to post anything, just replace out, and don't be afraid to do it, unless something drives you back to post. I'm glad that you didn't leave the site, though

Skill suspects you and me, and she's the only one. I don't know how she does it.

This definitely boosts my pride! XD That aside, lurking has always been a very big scumtell for me, and most of the people I was suspecting were lurkers.

Not skill, she is slowly getting ripe for a miss-lynch. I don't know how she gets both of us as scum, I think she doesn't really know herself as well. With her case(s) on me I didn't had the idea she picked on the really scummy things. I think it made her look bad and distracting from the real scummy bits of me.

Can't tell you how true this is. I was only slightly sure in my read of jammer, and like I said my posting of the case was to see how he would answer yada yada, but the main problem was that I couldn't explain my suspicion of jammer very well. And yeah, it ended up making me look bad

Skill : jammer & Phean(primarly redbox) <=== epic scumhunter.

lol I'm awesome (But I was so darn wishy washy, there was only a time where I was ABSOLUTELY convinced they were scum).

Thing is, although PranaDevil may be annoyingly pro-town, he's more likely to mislynch someone. Even when everyone was pressuring PaltryExcuse to hammer Ray he thought it through and didn't. PranaDevil, however, has been happy to put tons of people at L-1 and holler for their lynching. Since Prana is so quick to jump at people I figured he could be used to our advantage.

This is what I thought scum would be thinking come night 2, which is why I was not expecting prana to be NKed (and was not expecting him to be frozen in a block of ice, either XD).

I've sended PaltryExcuse as the kill and skill as the role-block target.

Their reasons definitely make sense, but it still feels weird that I was roleblocked Don't know why...

Quiet scum!

What do you mean he was proven innocent when we killed him? Bah!

You're just too stubborn XD (Even though you did find time to be suspicious of everyone in the game...)

[Skill006]

Why are my posts bigger in the endgame than in the actual game...

[Skill006]

You listed me at the top of your scumlist even while I was active. Jammer might have been lurking but I wasn't at the time that QT quote was written.

That's true, and I never suspected you for lurking (though I suspected redbox because of his lurking). I guess jmurph and you were the 2 suspicions that weren't based off of lurking.

I thought redbox was scum, like jammer said (in the qt), but it was mostly gut and pretty tentative. So when you replaced in and gave those replacement posts that made you look town (must've been doubly hard writing those as scum, now that I think about it 0_0), I wanted to see how you would post without reviewing the past part of the game. My suspcions kept snowballing into this thing that I didn't want to let go of, because I rarely get suspicions in mafia games so when I do, I cling on to them for dear life and thats why my suspicions stayed pretty much the same throughout the game.

I have a weird playstyle >.>

Still, for the time you were here I thought you played really well. Those first posts definitely gave everyone the impression that you were town, and as scum its probably pretty hard to actually read and analyze through everything and think the same way a townie does (hard enough as a townie XD) I commend you for that

Because you're scum!

Does that mean I win?

What do you mean SHE was ALSO cleared after? Dammit! One of these days I'll lynch correctly!

You never actually lynched me. Even though I got close to being lynched a couple of times, some magical force always pushed it away from me.

Well, whatever. We'll all get the hang of finding actual scumtells sooner or later, and I'm sure one day you will lynch scum (and hopefully they won't be your buddy).

[Skill006]

Ah well, I'll continue playing anyway, because it's great fun, and keeps me occupied... although, as another friend (who I've managed to get into the game, whoo!) asked me... is it a bad sign when the first thing you think of when you wake up is this sodding game? lol

At least you haven't had Mafia dreams yet.

I've had mafia arguments going through my head at night. It actually gets quite intense XD

[Skill006]

Ah well, I'll continue playing anyway, because it's great fun, and keeps me occupied... although, as another friend (who I've managed to get into the game, whoo!) asked me... is it a bad sign when the first thing you think of when you wake up is this sodding game? lol

At least you haven't had Mafia dreams yet.

I've had mafia arguments going through my head at night. It actually gets quite intense XD

Hey, it's all well and good for you, my very first game (not here, this was my second ) I landed a cop role. I played so badly in that game I actually started thinking "I" was scum XD.

Woah, same here 0_0 (I was cop in my first game, and I played really terribly. And I totally outed myself at the worst time).

[Skill006]

Wow, that must've sucked

I investigated scum on night 1, but he practically claimed scum the next day (hint hint RayFrost), so it proved useless lol

[Skill006]

And then my partner won it.

Not my fault.

though I'm sad about the end result.

Also not my fault.

I

wasn't in endgame. I don't suck at this game! *sniff