Last Will Mafia (Over)

[Gayle]

L. Ron Hubbard - Cult Leader - Killed Pregame
Carrot Top - Jester - Killed Pregame
Mahatma Ghandi - Neutral Survivor - Killed Pregame
Hannah Montana - Beloved Princess - Killed Pregame

I see no crime here.

Vote: Netopalis

Because the last time he declined to rvs I got vig'd in the face.

I Elect: DrPepper for the double vote because he is amazingly delicious

I dunno about random election phase...

[Gayle]

Well, I guess I'll keep my vote on Netopalis. I have faith in his theory discussion.

[Gayle]

I just realized that I can elect myself. This plan is brilliant. There are no downsides.

Vote: Gayle

Is there a kill night 0?

[Gayle]

Evidently, I don't read the rules.

Unvote

[Gayle]

Strategy discussion, huh? This is going to be a boring five days. Strategy discussion in this setup is pointless because it boils down to "Be careful or we could lose!". Yos's "strategy discussion" is essentially telling people what they already know if they have any sense. Claiming that what he posted required careful study of the setup is nonsense. As previously made evident, I didn't even read the rules all that carefully, and nothing in his post was particularly enlightening.

FoS: Yos

Because I can't bandwagon him.

Vote: RayFrost

RayFrost is a school boy in Japan and Japan's educational system is better than yours. Like everyone in Japan, RayFrost also knows deadly karate. Smart + Deadly = Someone we can depend on.

[Gayle]

How can you know whether or not his post was valid if you didn't read the rules carefully? Perhaps there is some hidden nuance that you're not aware of?

Because what he said amounts to "Be careful with your wills!" and "Be careful with your votes!"

Also, that was a frighteningly quick reply.

[Gayle]

zEEnon wanting to give the doublevote to tatethetot, who will probably get lynched by the end of day two, instead of Yos, is scummy. Yer, there's no intuitive reason to vote a VI instead of an experienced player.

So giving tatethetot a vote is scummy because

you

think Yos is a better player?

Well, if you had the same stratagy ideas, then why the heck didn't you say so? You certainly should have, if you had figured out the same stuff; the odds that everyone read the rules and came to the exact same conclusion is quite low.

The odds that players would come to the conclusion that "Giving Mafia Too Many Votes Is Bad" is quite low?

No, that's not at all what I said. Try again.

Okay, you tell me what part of your post required careful study of the game rules.

[Gayle]

Theory: While it's bad to have all of our votes concentrated in the same person, it's also bad to have bad players with extra votes. Therefore, perhaps a more nuanced approach would be to spread the votes around the best players as a group? I mean, if all of the best players are scum, they'll win easily anyway, but I think that we can all agree that it's incredibly unlikely that even a majority of, say, the 5 best players in this game would be scum together.

itt, top hats.

Leave the wills to the individuals, like [insert name here] said, telling people how to use their wills only helps scum.

Also, are you suggesting that we all give our votes to a few "best players"?

Also itt, Netopalis is scum.

[Gayle]

Why do you think that I'm scum? You're incredibly vague.

Because of this

And yes, I am suggesting that.

I used also one too many times in that last post.

[Gayle]

You need to explain why you think that's scummy, though. It's not immediately evident.

You are suggesting we give all the voting power to a few individuals because "they can't all be scum". If even one scum is a part of the "best players" group, then this plan only makes them more likely to gain more voting power quickly. Further, if there is scum in the group, then he is the one most likely to continue to gain voting power, as he can either try to lynch or nk the others in the group. And what happens if the players in the group send their votes to each other upon death? Essentially, concentrating power in a few individuals is begging for catastrophe.

I don't see why a town player would suggest such a strategy.

@Max:

Can you just a color that is easier to read?

[Gayle]

The same is true regardless of the strategy used to select players, though.

That's why we don't use a strategy to select players. We let each individual decide.

Intentionally selecting players who aren't the best runs into the same problem. The only way to do it so that nobody gets an advantage like that is to do it fully randomly using an off-site randomizer.

The difference is that the votes will be relatively wide spread and unpredictable as opposed to your strategy of concentrating votes into a few specific people.

However, I would posit that this is not optimal play either. Scum could get the votes fairly easily and the weaker, more pliable players will control a disproportionate amount of power in the game, a power that is more manipulable by the scum.

This is the problem with you strategy guys. We don't need to find "optimal play", we only need to be careful that no particular individual gains too much power. To do that, all we need to do is let each individual decide who their votes go to and trust them to make sure no one player grows too powerful.

To even suggest concentrating power in a few people is scummy.

[Gayle]

It is really difficult trying to argue strategy with Mafia Theory PhDs like Netopalis, so I decided to go campaigning instead.

Reasons To Elect RayFrost

I am 15, not 16.

He has 15 years of mafia experience.

My reasons are...

fugitive is scum.

I'm confident.

That is all.

His scum hunting is truly ground breaking.

So far, I've caused...

1, 2... ~5

newbies

mafia scumbags to quit.

He can intimidate scum into rage quitting the game.

My play had me as obv scum the entire game.

And we don't have to worry about him being mafia, because if he is it'll be obvious.

In short, I believe RayFrost will beat on scum like masked japanese school girls beat on fat kids: Over and over again.

[Gayle]

He is saying that in large theme games there are bound to be killing roles or else the game would go on too long. Or at least that is how I understand it.

Also, elect anyone but Yos to mayor (when did we start calling it that?). His reactions are creeping me out.

[Gayle]

You're going to have to explain a bit more about "creeping me out". I really can't base any sort of game decision on the vague notion that you're "creeped out".

Why Yosarian2 Is Creepy

1. He begins the game and makes the startling discovery that mafia has a different win condition from normal. Shockingly, they win by
controlling half of the votes! Even more shocking, if they get those votes quickly, THE GAME WILL END QUICKLY. Thankfully, Yos was here
to warn us about such danger. He also suggests the obvious strategy (obvious to everyone except Netopalis, apparently) of making sure no
one person gains too much power.

2. He claims that his above discovery required careful study of the game rules.

3. When [insert name here] says the he believes yos did the above in order to look pro town and garner votes, Yos interprets this as
"Yos is obviously right and therefore scum"

4. He completely ignores my last post addressed to him.

5. You advocate concentrating power in the "best" players, and you have already made it known that Yos is one of these players.

I know you theory types don't have emotion, but it

feels

to me that you two are trying to concentrate power in Yos. And based on that feeling, I would like to elect anyone but Yos.

@Fifi:

Ray is not a dayvig.

[Gayle]

This is strange. Several minutes have passed and Netopalis hasn't replied. Something must have happened to him. Someone find his address so I can direct the police there immediately.

[Gayle]

I don't understand #3. I also can't really deal with some vague emotional feeling you have, since I can't confirm it nor can I understand it. None of the things that you've put together really seem to add up to why I shouldn't vote for Yosarian. My vote stays.

Well, I didn't really expect

you

to change your vote, seeing as you are one of the reasons I don't want Yos to be elected.

But what don't you understand about #3? Somebody says they believe Yos's posts are a ploy to gain votes. Yos interprets it as "Yos is obviously right and therefore scum". Those are his own words.

[Gayle]

Llama: Is the Daykill valid?

Twenty five bucks says its not. Are you a bad enough dude to accept this bet?

[Gayle]

The post that Netopalis made me dig up. Proof that not even Netopalis reads Yos's megaposts.

I'll respond to 182 in a moment.

[Gayle]

Did you actually realize before I said that that town could lose this game as early as day 3, that we could be in lynch or lose with as many as 20 people still alive in a 24 player game?

If so, why the hell didn't you say so? That's damn important information for any pro-town person to have, and it's not something that any person would normally assume. It's certainly not at all intuitive.

Because if you joined the game, you know the setup. And if you know the setup, you know that the game ends as soon as mafia controls half the votes.

Why is that obvious? Explain this to me.

What strategy is more obvious than spreading around the votes to prevent one person from becoming too powerful?

That seems to be what you're saying in this very post. You're attacking me for saying things that you think are obviously true.

I'm saying that stating the obvious seems more like a ploy to seem like you are a helpful, thoughtful townie rather than you actually being a helpful, thoughtful townie.

If you mean this post, I assumed you weren't being serious, since it was a complete and obvious misrepresentation of everything I said:

Bullshit. Why in the hell would I address something to you and not expect a response?

What I said was that at this stage of the game it's probably a bad idea to give ONE person all of our votes, EVEN IF WE THINK THAT PERSON IS TOWN. And I said that because most people's instinctive reaction, especially with wills being secret, is going to be to just put the most obviously pro-town person on top of their list; my stratagic suggestion was that that might not be a good idea, EVEN IF YOU ARE RIGHT AND THAT PERSON IS PRO-TOWN; because if all the votes are in one big stack of doom, the scum are likely to just kill the person with all those votes, then kill the person he gives it to, then kill the person HE gives it to, until someone screws up, the scum gets that pile of votes and wins.

That is a lot of words to say "Don't give one person too much power". But maybe I shouldn't have used the word mafia there. Okay, let me rephrase it: The odds that players would come to the conclusion that "Giving One Player Too Many Votes Is Bad" is quite low?

Now, you can agree with me or you can disagree with me, but what you seem to be doing is pretending I said something completely different so you can attack me for it, and the more you do that, the more you just look like scum.

For example?

---

I read everything, but I don't remember every single word of every single post, Gayle. What is it with you lately? You seem to have some sort of a grudge against me...Every post that you mention me in seems to have these barbs.

Either you are incorrectly assuming that my remarks are personal or you are using the same gambit you used in Mafia With The Quickness. Please show me these "barbs", so that I can determine which is the case.

. The implication of not wanting to give Yosarian an extra vote seems to be implying that he's scum.

This argument is scummy, and it is at least the second time it has been used (I don't remember if the other time was by you). Person A doesn't want Person B to have an extra vote, therefore Person A must believe that Person B is scum. That's wrong and it allows you to call into question anyone who mentions that they don't want Yos to be the mayor.

My mind is not made up on Yos, which is why I am

fucking with him

questioning him. However, I do think

you

are rather questionable, and you seem to want Yos to be elected. That, along with the responses of Yos that I dislike, leads me to be believe it would be a better idea to elect someone else.

[Gayle]

Gayle's barbs, referred by isolation post number:

1: Well, I guess I'll keep my vote on Netopalis. I have faith in his theory discussion.

- Reference to a game we both played in where I got lynched for talking too much about theory on D1.

7: Also itt, Netopalis is scum.

11: It is really difficult trying to argue strategy with Mafia Theory PhDs like Netopalis, so I decided to go campaigning instead.

13: I know you theory types don't have emotion, but it feels to me that you two are trying to concentrate power in Yos. And based on that feeling, I would like to elect anyone but Yos.

14: This is strange. Several minutes have passed and Netopalis hasn't replied. Something must have happened to him. Someone find his address so I can direct the police there immediately.

17: The post that Netopalis made me dig up. Proof that not even Netopalis reads Yos's megaposts.

Netopalis, save for "Netopalis is scum", all of those are jokes. You made a joke about ten ninjas so I thought you had a sense of humor. <--

actual barb

another joke
As for 7, calling people scum in a mafia game is now an insult?

'Net's not online, therefore he's scummy'.

Excuse me, sir, where did you see me say anything like that?

[Gayle]

Vote: Yoaarian2

He's using good logic about giving the double-votes, and the will lists etc.

Why is it that in every game I have with you, I forget that you are even a player?

[Gayle]

Because your post was obvious garbage, and I assumed you knew that when you were posting it. If you're saying that it's not, then you're probably scum.

I'm saying that is not. What you are saying here is "I didn't respond to your post because you knew it was crap". How does that even make sense? If you think it was a misrepresentation, why not call me out on it instead of ignoring it?

Now, you can agree with me or you can disagree with me, but what you seem to be doing is pretending I said something completely different so you can attack me for it, and the more you do that, the more you just look like scum.

For example?

This argument is scummy, and it is at least the second time it has been used (I don't remember if the other time was by you). Person A doesn't want Person B to have an extra vote, therefore Person A must believe that Person B is scum.That's wrong and it allows you to call into question anyone who mentions that they don't want Yos to be the mayor.

Wait, what?

Your whole argument was "I don't want Yos to become mayor because I don't trust him", wasn't it? That's not quite the same as "I believe he's scum", but it is the same as "I think he's likely to be scum", isn't it? If that's not what you're saying, then I'm confused about what your point is.

A question: Is that supposed to be the example, or are these separate?

If the former, I asked you to give me an example of where I am pretending that your words are one thing when they are actually another. The line you quoted was addressed to Netopalis, so it can hardly be me twisting your words.

If the latter, my point is that the "You must find Yos scummy if you don't want him elected" argument is disingenuous and is being used to call into question players that mention they do not want to elect you.

[Gayle]

I think you read to read the top part of the post you just quoted, Vik.

[Gayle]

I think you

read

need to read the top part of the post you just quoted, Vik.

[Gayle]

Yes, I know that 'now', but at the time, what else was I supposed to make of it? You didn't clear it up until after I made that post.

When someone talks about sending police to someone's house just because they haven't posted for a few minutes, why would you conclude that that person is saying "Net's not online, therefore he's scummy"?

[Gayle]

Well, I never said "you must find Yos scummy if you don't want him elected."

Which is why that is not addressed to you.

But I find it incredibly disingenuous on your part that on the one hand, you keep going on about how you don't trust me and have bad think I'm trying to manipulate the town in order to get more power, but on the other hand, you claim that you don't find me scummy, and that I'm somehow being unfair in saying that you do.

Yos, I never said anything about you being "unfair". I really hate the use of that word. The part of that post after the horizontal rule was addressed to Netopalis.

Hell, you even FOS'd me. Why did you do that if you don't think I'm scummy?

Because it is the beginning of the game and I am trying to

find out

if you are scummy. I can't vote you, so I used FoS, which I would normally be loathe to use.

[Gayle]

So, you don't trust him but don't find him scummy.

Do I trust Yos with the double vote? No. Do I think that he is scum? Not necessarily, but I do have my misgivings. As I've explained at least twice now, I would like to give the vote to someone I don't have such misgivings about.

Also, if not Yosarian, who do you find scummy, then?

It's like your not even reading my posts.

[Gayle]

But you haven't really explained why you have those misgivings, at least not in a way that is convincing to anybody else. Still, you seem to think that we should all follow up on your gut reaction that none of us can experience. Why is that?

Are you asking me why I want people to agree with me? I think the purpose of your post was to say "Gayle's reason for not wanting to elect Yos is only gut" rather than to actually ask such a question.

Let me ask you this: If you thought some of the posts of Player A were disingenuous, and Player B, whom you find to be rather scummy, wanted to elect that player, would you want to elect Player A?

No? Then what is the point of this line of questioning? Do you find me scummy or are you just questioning me because I don't want to elect Yos?

[Gayle]

I'm trying to divine the source of your feeling of disingenuity. You seem to be of the opinion that because

you

find him disingenuous,

we

should pick somebody else. Nothing that you've said is really anything that anybody else can put stock in and say, "Yes. This makes me second-guess my choice to go for Yosarian." I can understand you not wanting to elect him. I can't understand you telling everybody else that we shouldn't elect him.

What can't you understand? I found some of Yos's posts questionable, I find his top supporter scummy. Why should I not suggest we elect someone else? Are you saying that if other people don't agree with me, I have no reason to suggest such a thing?

[Gayle]

I'm saying that you need something to point to to convince other people. You seem to be manufacturing that proof from whole cloth.

I've already "pointed to something to convince other people".

[Gayle]

And it wasn't...really all that convincing. You even admitted that yourself in the post.

You don't agree with me. Noted. Again, is there a point to this line of questioning? The whole problem seems to be that I don't want to elect Yos and you don't like it.

Also, I admitted no such thing.

[Gayle]

Raider: I have problems with Gayle and Tate's double-teaming and their odd belief that we SHOULDN'T give the vote to Yosarian BECAUSE he is the best player. Also, their weird little half-suspicion-but-not-quite stuff seems waffley to me.

That is not my reason for not wanting Yos to have the vote.

Things I find Weird

• Dr Pepper claiming that Ray was faking a daykill to get reactions

Also, first person to get Dr Pepper to break this posting style wins 10 US dollars. That is enough money to buy a can of soda.

[Gayle]

Right. You distrust him. Or you find him creepy. Or you don't like the way that his shoes are tied. Or his username starts with a Y, and therefore can't be trusted. Or it's Saturday and you never cast a good vote on a Saturday.

Scum resort to this kind of thing.

[Gayle]

@Netopalis:

Is there anyone you would be willing to elect other than Yos?

[Gayle]

@DrPepper

RayFrost has faked daykills before.

Am I the only one that thought it was an obvious joke?

[Gayle]

Can those of you who haven't voted do so? It is not like you are doing anything else. The discussion has died and I'd rather start Day 1 sooner rather than later.

Just a reminder, these are our top candidates:

[Gayle]

Actually, Ray's wanting to not be elected gives me a strange gut feeling. Almost like he's trying to use reverse psychology....
But anyway, whether he's serious or he's using reverse psychology, there's a good reason not to vote for him. So,

unvote vote:Yosarian

You do realize Yos has said he doesn't want to be elected as well?

[Gayle]

Crap. 30 hours till deadline? Someone want to just sum up whats happened so far in the thread?.

Not much.

-Yos begins by discussing strategy.
-tatetothetote questions Yos's motives in doing so.
-Gayle also questions Yos's motives and suggests electing anyone but Yos.
-Netopalis argues with Gayle about that suggestion.
-Everybody realizes we are close to the deadline.

[Gayle]

My strongest town read is Socrates, 'cause he is the only person other than myself who bothers to question Netopalis' "consolidate power" strategy.

I'll go to your funeral after you are murdered in the night, Mr. Strongest Town Read.

I vote for RayFrost 'cause he is a pretty cool guy, he is less questionable than Yos and doesn't afraid of anything.



Also, Yos going on about how scum is going to whip up paranoia against him makes me want to elect him even less.

[Gayle]

You are trying to whip up paranoia. I deem you have a fairly good chance at being scum.

What complete and utter bullshit. Saying I don't want to elect Yos is "trying to whip up paranoia"? Show me why I'm scum. "Because you don't want to elect Yos" is not a good reason.

How is he wrong again?

Gonna have to be more specific on this. What are you asking about?

[Gayle]

you're bashing at net over and over for wanting Yos elected

This is not true. I find Netopalis scummy because of his strategy and his claim that if you don't want to elect Yos, you must find him scummy. Netopalis is part of the reason I don't want elect Yos. Yos is not part of the reason I find Netopalis scummy.

last line is basically a form of whipping up paranoia.

If saying why I don't want to elect Yos is "whipping up paranoia", then so be it.

Also, I'm refering to Yos saying scum will try to whip up paranoia.

He is wrong because I am not trying to whip up paranoia.

[Gayle]

Gayle, something about 2/3rds of your posts have been attacks on me

Outright lie. Either you are bad at math or you just wanted to make a sensational statement.

Your whole stance here seems to be:

FOS Yos!

I don't trust Yos!

Yos is creepy!

Hey, Neto, how dare you say I think Yos is scummy! What's wrong with you?

Which just seems bizzare and skitzo to me.

Mighty disingenuous, Mr. Yosarian.

-First, I FOS'd you because you were pointing out the obvious and calling it strategy discussion.
-Next, I said you were creepy and that I would rather elect someone else. When Neto asked me why, I gave reasons. Among those reasons was that you were a part of Netopalis' scummy strategy.
-Next, Netopalis used the "If you don't want to elect Yos, you must find him scummy" arguement on both Tatetothetot (I think) and myself. I argued that that argument was scummy.
-Finally, Netopalis and I argued over who knows what.

Also, just so you know I abuse the word disingenuous. Don't be surprised if you see it in every other post.

[Gayle]

Gayle...do you have any OTHER thoughts on anyone else playing besides Yos, Net, and Ray? I don't even see you posting on anyone else currently...

I like Socrates. I don't like dramonic. Null read on raider and yourself. It is difficult to have an opinion on anyone else, as they don't say much.

[Gayle]

Neto never said "If you don't want to elect Yos you must find him scummy". What he did do was assume that you weren't voting me because you found me scummy. Which is fair, since THAT WAS THE EXACT REASON YOU GAVE YOURSELF.

No, the reason I gave myself was that I didn't like your reactions and that I would rather elect someone else.

Also, Neto didn't use those exact words, but he certainly made the argument. Twice.

If you want to use "Yos said something I think was obvious, therefore he's scummy" as an argument, go for it. It's a terrible argument, especially in this case, but whatever. But you can not use arguments like that to accuse me of being scummy and then flip out when people think you suspect me; that dosn't even make sense.

Disingenuous. There is a difference between questioning someone and calling someone scummy.

What it looks to me is like you're trying to have it both ways; you want to plant the idea that "Yos is suspicious", but at the same time, you keep denying that you personally suspect me, because you don't want to look bad later when and I flip town.

I've explained myself several times. If you want to continue to paint it this way, that is up to you.

Actually, let's solve this problem: As of PS376, you are now one of my top suspects. Congratulations.

Also, pointing out your lies and your sensational, disingenuous statements isn't helping my case? Well, it certainly isn't helping yours.

[Gayle]

Ok, explain this to me. If "I don't like X's reactions" dosn't mean "I suspect player X might be scum", then what does it mean?

It means that I don't like X's reactions.

There is NO DIFFERENCE between saying "I don't like action X, FOS person A because he did action X" and saying "I think person A is scummy because of action X". No difference at all. Don't you see that?

So you cannot find a player's actions questionable without believing they are scum?

No, you have never "explained yourself", you've just gone back and fourth and contradicted yourself over and over again. That's a very different thing.

I have. You don't want to accept those explanations. I disagree that I ever contradicted myself.

But please, explain how my accurate description of your behavior in post 376 "made me your suspect". I want to hear this.

Your claims in that post were disingenuous, sensational or outright lies.

I certainly haven't lied at all, nor have I made any "sensational disingenuous statements".

Take one more look at 376. Tell me that the first line isn't a lie. Tell me that the following four lines weren't both sensational and disingenuous.

---

Socrates: Except, Gayle started saying this before she really expressed distrust of me.

Sure about that?

[Gayle]

Fair enough, Gayle, but your response to me was only after your scumbuddy Tatetothetot started attacking Yos' post. Regardless, I fail to see how you could so clearly determine scum from the very start. Also, why hold this argument as some sort of a hidden trump card until the very last day before the deadline?

....What exactly are you going on about?

[Gayle]

Most of your posts so far this game have been attacks on me: true.

Let's examine these "attacks" on you.

[4] An Attack!
[5] An Attack!
[6] Responding to You.
[12] Yes, that is clearly a vicious attack on you.
[13] An Attack!
[15] Netopalis says he doesn't understand one of my points, so I explain it to him.
[18] You neglect to mention that I was responding to a long post by you.
[21] Again, responding to you.
[38] If you say so.

So attacks on you include responding to you or elaborating my points to others? Even if we count every attack you list, we only get about 9 items. At that time I had around 40 posts. 2/3rds of 40 is something like 26.6. So yes, this claim of yours is not only an outright lie but an exaggeration to the point of being ridiculous for no other reason than to be sensational.

Gayle attacked Neto for thinking Gayle thought Yos was scummy, after Gayle had acted in a way to give the impression Gayle thought Yos was scummy: True.

A lie. I attacked Netopalis because of his strategy and because of an argument he made.

FOS Yos! I don't trust Yos! Yos is creepy!

Yes, I did make such remarks. But your presentation of them is disingenuous.

Now you're playing semantic games.

I'm not. You are arguing that if I say that some of your posts are questionable, I am really saying that you are scummy. And so I ask you "So you cannot find a player's actions questionable without believing they are scum?".

Ok, where?

Here Here Here Here Here and pretty much any other time I was questioned about it.

[Gayle]

Gayle, the problem is that you can't spend more than half of your posts finding somebody questionable and still claim you have a null read on them.

But I didn't. Not even half of half of my posts. And the majority of those are me repeating to you that I didn't necessarily find Yos scummy.

[Gayle]

Also, can you explain 401? Not sure what exactly is going on there.

[Gayle]

Netopalis, your lists of quotes does not contradict what I said in anyway.

Also, 401. Explain it.

As for Yos, I'll respond when I get back to my main computer.

[Gayle]

The POINT I was making is that you haven't done anything this game OTHER then attack me, while denying that you found me suspicious, and that's bizzare.

Except that that is a completely untrue.

Ignoring the "word games" comment.

The strategy, fair enough (although it does undermine your whole "Yos's strategy is so obviously correct that I don't even know why he bothered saying it" argument, since Neto clearly dosn't agree with it, and I still don't really know if anyone else is going to follow it or not.) But you DID attack Neto with that argument as well.

You are going to have to clarify what argument I supposedly attacked Neto with.

Neto doesn't agree with your plan 'cause Neto is scum.

You called Neto scummy, based on Neto's assumption that you thought I was scummy. Why is it you would deny something like that when it's right in your posts?

First of all, I called Neto scummy long before that. Secondly, I attacked Neto for using the argument, not "because he said I suspected Yos" as you keep implying.

Again, you're not going to get out of this with semantic games, and 5 syllable words. You clearly understand what I was trying to say, and you're just trying to avoid responding to my main point by fencing around on irrelevant side issues instead.

I don't have anything to "get out of". You are the one using the disingenuous arguments. You are trying to say that all I have done all game is attack you, which is simply untrue. That being so, I find the fact that you would make the claim in such an exaggerated way scummy.

So, yes; if you find a player's actions questionable, then that is the same as saying you think they are scummy.

You say it is, I say it isn't.

Those posts, the ones you call your "explanations", are actually perfect examples of the problem I have with your play here. Those are perfect examples of the posts that you need to explain here.

What do you want me to explain here? How can I be anymore clear than "I don't necessarily find Yos scummy, but he is questionable. Let's elect someone else". I've explained

why

I find you questionable. You are telling me to explain an explanation, and just how the hell am I supposed to do that?

---

Gayle: It was not clear, at least to me, that you objected to Yosarian's nomination because you found me to be scummy. Indeed, you couched it in terms of "creepy feelings" and "Disingenuity". That's all I meant by 401.

Fair enough, Gayle, but your response to me was only after your scumbuddy Tatetothetot started attacking Yos' post. Regardless, I fail to see how you could so clearly determine scum from the very start. Also, why hold this argument as some sort of a hidden trump card until the very last day before the deadline?

Somehow I think there is more too it than that. Why is Tate my scumbuddy? What do you mean I clearly determined scum from the start of the game? What is this trump card you are referring to?

How on earth do you spew that much crap about a person during a game and not even have an opinion as to whether they're scummy or not? And, of course, it begs the question - why exactly do you find me scummy?

Because in reality, I didn't "spew that much crap". I said "let's not elect Yos and here's why", and then spent pages arguing with you over how I do or do not believe Yos is scum.

The things I find scummy about you are your "give all the votes to a small group of people" strategy, and some of the arguments you are making.



Don't know if you guys are around, but I'm going to do some homework. I will check this thread a few times while I'm doing it, but after that I am going to bed. I have class all day tomorrow and a two hour bus ride both ways, so I likely won't be around until evening.

[Gayle]

Tate is your scumbuddy because it seems like you two are making the same arguments, stating the same "creepy feeling", etc. Honestly, it was just a way of getting reactions. You two are possibly linked, though.

Yos is your scumbuddy because you two are making the same arguments, stating the same "Gayle only posts about Yos", etc.

The trump card was referring to the fact that you spent those pages and pages of arguing without ever actually, you know, saying what your argument was.

Are you saying I never explained why I found Yos creepy? Not even in a big area tag labeled "Why Yosarian2 is Creepy"?

You said repeatedly that you found him to be questionable and that you got a creepy feeling from him. Do I need to repost the quotes? This is like someone having written a biography of Abraham Lincoln and, when asked what he thinks about the man, he says, "You know, I'd never thought about that..."

I mean, it's not like I explained what I didn't like about him the first time you asked me. And it's not like I repeated myself over and over because you asked me over and over.

[Gayle]

Did Bogre even post?

[Gayle]

It doesn't make sense otherwise to say that I'm scum because I supported his election.

But I've never said that. On the contrary, I've said I don't want to elect Yos because

you

are scummy.

5 is not a statement of anything that Yos did.

No, but it is a reason of why I did not want him to be elected.

[Gayle]

Is #5 the only reason that you didn't want Yos to be elected?

You do realize that the fact that it is #5 means there are 4 other reasons, right? Yes, I know you think those other reasons are horrible and ugly. But they

are

there.

In response to 427:The three posts I linked in 399 explain what I found scummy about you at the time.

[Gayle]

Netopalis, it is 11 am here and i need to get up early, and all I've gotten done on my homework is my name. This is probably my last post until tomorrow evening.

@429: I don't understand how my explanations of why I don't want to elect Yos don't explain why I don't want to elect Yos. I think this is what has been confusing me for our entire argument.

@430: What prevents everyone from picking the same person is their common sense. When they see one person getting too many votes, they only need to change their will so that their vote goes to someone else.

@433: This post is completely wrong. Trying to argue about it will only result in more circles. I will, however, remind you (and this is not the first time that I have done so) that I never said "Neto supports Yos, therefore he is scummy."

I'm a law student

It all makes sense now!

[Gayle]

It's because they are insufficient to explain your vehement and intense loathing for his nomination.

That is the thing, there was no "vehement and intense loathing for his nomination". I think you read my "anybody but Yos" comment the wrong way.

I'd understand if you had started this whole thing saying you'd "prefer" a RayFrost nomination, or that you'd be "more comfortable" with a RayFrost nomination, but what I saw was an FOS against Yosarian and accusations that look an awful lot like you're saying he's scum.

At the time, I was actually just trying to question Yos. I didn't like some of his responses (along with your endorsement of him), so I wanted to elect someone else. It was not "DO NOT ELECT YOS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE", but rather "I'd prefer if we elected someone else". Then you came along and made a huge deal out of it.

And if there are multiple deaths in the same night?

Then we change our wills. Even if all those that die that night somehow send their votes to the same person, we only need to be sure not to send anymore votes to that person.

So, why am I scummy?

We can go through all that again on Day 1.


Also, why do you hate my GPA?

[Gayle]

Ugh, you seem to be going on about nonsense again. Not going to bother with it right now. I would suggest you just re-read the entire argument from the beginning. See you tomorrow, bro.

[Gayle]

@Dr Pepper:

Bullet points are good and all, but if you are going to make accusations, you need to explain them.

Show me the scummish behavior Netopalis is calling me on.
Explain why finding tate town is scummy.

If no conversation is occurring, stop making bullet points start conversation yourself.

FoS: DrPepper

This translates into a vote on Day 1.

[Gayle]

The fact that your justification cannot work for Post #49. Why did you FOS Yos in Post #49?

Assuming you are talking to me, you will have to wait until after class or at least until I get to class.

But from memory, I FOS'd Yos because of his stating the obvious and calling it strategy. Also, because I wanted to question him. This is not the first time I've answered that question, you know.

[Gayle]

Actually...it is.

No it is not. I'll find it after class (if the day is still going).

You've provided that as a reason for not voting for him, but not for your FOS, which is a finger of

suspicion

.

Actually the reason for the FOS is in the post in which I FOS him.

You've also said previously that the only reason that you're really against his election is because I'm supporting it. How do you explain the discrepancy?

There is no discrepancy, because I never said that.

[Gayle]

This is a stale conversation. Like really stale.

You are just jealous that noone is arguing the same thing with you over and over again.

[Gayle]

We wouldn't have the same conversation over and over again if you'd just give a straight answer. First, the reason that you don't want Yos is not because you find him scummy, but because you don't like me supporting him. Then, it's because you get a "creepy" feeling from him. Now, I have nothing to do with the original decision. There is no consistency when you consider your posts as a whole.

The reason we are repeated ourselves is because you keep making accusations like this that can be cleared up if you just go back and read the original posts.

[Gayle]

I have. Thoroughly.

Evidently not. I listed my reasons for not wanting to elect Yos the very first time you asked me. I have never once claimed any reasons other than those listed in that post. I have never once claimed that you are the sole reason I didn't want to elect Yos.

Also, "I have not ever said anything about me not liking you being my reason for advocating a Rayfrost election." goes for me as well.

/Pretending like I didn't see Elscouta's post.

[Gayle]

Unvote, Vote Yosarian2

Can we start yet?

How many votes is that?

[Gayle]

I think this should be truly random...since I have the feeling that tatetothetot has a good chance of being daylynched day 1 for somethings that have happened, I place my vote on him

Vote: tatetothetot

But someone please give me a good reason right now so I can hammer (theoretically of course) Yosarian and we can get this game started

If I was voting the best player, I would vote RayFrost, but he's asked numerously not to be voted for this

If you hammer Yos, we can start the game. At this point it is going to be Yos no matter what. It is just a matter of if we want to wait two hours or not.

[Gayle]

unvote, vote: yos2

RayFrost's patented "Hammer out of Nowhere" technique.

[Gayle]

Restoring my vote on

Vote: DrPepper

Considering that most of the posts on day 1 were by a tiny number of player, I think there are a lot of people we need more content from.

[Gayle]

well, there goes the eliminate all people 3+ votes, as they are too dangerous strategy.

That would have been a dumb strategy anyway.

[Gayle]

Can I get some more votes on DrPepper, please?

[Gayle]

Why? I actually rather like his posting style. It's to the point and fairly accurate.

Because he doesn't explain any of the statements he makes, and refuses to do so even when asked. Why am I paranoid scum? Why was your comment about nightkills scummy? Why is hp's vote different from the other zeenon votes?

You are fine with DrPepper posting like this the entire game?


In other news, I agree with Elscouta about vik.

[Gayle]

@CMAR: What parts of DrPepper's posts do you agree with? What do you disagree with?

[Gayle]

I agree that I think that Neto's comment:

Drat. That's...that's a really crappy night.

was scummy...we lynched scum and that's good...his comment could be read as "Drat. My scumbuddy got lynched...that's crappy"

I don't see anything scummy about that. Two townies were killed, among them the person Netopalis considers to be the best player. And what do you mean by "we lynched" scum?

It's a bit scummy the comment you made about lack of content as he says...

That comment was supposed to be a response to Netopalis. He said something along the lines of we needed certain players to speak up, and I commented that we actually need a lot of players to speak up. Even if you don't believe that, can you tell me why the comment is scummy?

that Ortolan stating the game rules is town (kinda obvious: here we go with the Yos argument again:) )

I do agree that it is protown what raider said

What Ortolan said was less obvious than what raider said?

You are very paranoid, though that does not automatically make you scum...

Can you show me what you mean by paranoid? No worries, it will not lead to a 20 page long argument.

[Gayle]

What

raider

said was less obvious than what

Ortolan

said?

Is what I meant.

[Gayle]

Netopalis, I've been meaning to tell you this but I've been playing ace attorney investigations for the last few hours and I am disappointed that your related theme game has disappeared from your sig. What is the meaning of this? I assure you that this is completely on topic and related to scumhunting, so there should be no problem with answering.

[Gayle]

Fishythefish replaces Bogre

Megaposts incoming.

You accused Yosarian of lying. Which statements, at the time, did you consider "outright lies?"

Go back and read.

[Gayle]

That's not as obvious as what Ortolan said at all...do you really think that?

I do, as what Raider said has already been mentioned several times.

[*]hp[leaves] accusation of me slipping by

You are. Your posts are a list of 'facts' with no explanation. You don't question anybody, you don't try to bring up new points, you just post a list of things you find scummy or weird and vote. Essentially, you are letting everybody else do the scumhunting, while you pop in to comment and vote.

[*]I find actions scummy
[*]I dont find people scummy until they commit multiple scummy actions
[*]Gayle is paranoid for suspecting Yos when Yos did nothing scummy
[*]Gayle is prob scum for drowning day one in noise

Okay, so show me the actions I did that you find scummy. Why do you say Day 0 was drowned in noise?

Another question, why is my questioning of Netopalis' sig wierd?

Also, I frown upon your shenanigans of explaining bullet points with more bullet points.

[Gayle]

Now that that's established, lets move on to a sensible topic: lynching scum

Haha, no. Everything I just said about DrPepper stands. Speculation about his role changes nothing.

@Netopalis:

How does such a posting restriction fit in with this setup?


About Zeenon, lynching him without more posts is ridiculous. He hasn't posted in six days, and what he

has

posted isn't enough to make any sort of conclusion. Lynching him would essentially be a policy lynch.

[Gayle]

@CMAR:

If we don't have enough information to lynch him now, why would we lynch him when he is replaced? If he is replaced, we form an opinion on his replacement and then decide what to do.

What do you mean, how does a posting restriction fit into the setup? I'm not sure exactly what you're asking.

I just found it strange that you would suggest he has a posting restriction that doesn't seem to fit with this setup.

Can you clarify your stance on Zeenon? Are you willing to lynch him or not?

brb, I'm a newbie so i have to go look up the neighbor role. But.. um.. we are talking about Zeenon, right?

[Gayle]

Zeenon is the neighbor.

[Gayle]

I am perfectly willing to lynch Zeenon.

So his grand total of 4 posts were enough to convince you that he is scum? Scummier than the player you spent all Day 0 arguing with?

Also, I'm still not sure why a posting restriction wouldn't fit with the setup. Exactly how would it not?

I mean his particular posting style as a posting restriction doesn't seem to fit with the "attempt to gain voting power" element of the game. But it would be quicker just to ask him.

@DrPepper:

Do you have a posting restriction?

[Gayle]

I've been in games where players can't establish posting restrictions till after the game ends...just sayin'

Then all he needs to say is "I can't comment on that".

[Gayle]

@CMAR:

You said you would prefer to not lynch Zeenon if he doesn't post. So if he was brought to L-1, you would unvote?

@Netopalis

: Why are you so sure Zeenon is scum? What was so scummy in those four posts? From my understanding, your problem is just that he endorsed Tate, who flipped scum. That is enough to warrant his lynch in a game with 3 nightkills? Also, are you advocating the Lynch All Lurkers policy?

[Gayle]

Well, I think those first two points are speculation and the last point can be attributed to anything. The remaining point is doesn't make me think "Yep, scum.".

The deadline is March 13th, and there is the possiblity of Zeenon being replaced. Why are you making a vote that "puts him close to lynching" when there are several players we need to hear from, including the replacement of a player with a single post?

Vote: Netopalis

[Gayle]

Lynching Netopalis today is BAD. That would mean tomorrow someone would have 4 votes (at least).

Are you suggesting we don't lynch anyone with multiple votes?

[Gayle]

Returning my vote to

Vote: DrPepper

for my previous reasons.

[Gayle]

No. Just because he's lurking means he's not as scummy as Gayle.

I can't respond unless you give an explanation.

[Gayle]

Where have I heard that before?

I'm not sure what you are implying here.

[Gayle]

Disregard that last post, I think I got it. There is nothing wrong with physical contact between men and especially not between friends. Why, I've seen women lean on one another's shoulders and nobody said a word. But as soon as one man hugs another, you have to make remarks and give them strange looks. Why is it that women are allowed to be intimate with friends but men are not? You sir, are a homophobic and sexist.

....Unless I'm misinterpreting your post.

[Gayle]

@Gayle
I have to admit that some of it is gut, but you've been badgering Dr. Pepper, who seems like town to me, and then voting for him, and you've generally used bad logic.

So you reasons are I'm attacking someone you find town and gut. Why can't I attack someone I find suspicious? And what do you mean by bad logic?

You're not helping town with your questions.

I'm town, and the questions are helping me.

And that last post....what?

Sexism and... and.. homophobia...

[Gayle]

@DrPepper:

Would you have preferred if I had not responded to Yos and Neto? And which of my posts from day 0 do you find scummy?

[Gayle]

Note to self: There is no such thing as an obvious joke to the players of Last Will Mafia. Not even a post about men hugging men.

[Gayle]

Are you suggesting we don't lynch anyone with multiple votes?

This is one example of bad logic. Even asking this question exhibits it. Just because he uses the multiple votes thing as a reason not to vote for Netopalis doesn't mean in any way that he's saying multiple voters should have lynch immunity.

You are claiming it is bad logic, because you have assumptions as to what he was thinking. The only way to be certain about what another player is thinking is to ask them, which is what I did.

Give me another example please. I'm sure you are questioning my logic over more than just that.

[Gayle]

I feel like the statement is a bit overly sensational itself.

So calling an outright lie an outright lie is overly sensational, but taking 9 posts (and in reality, all 9 were not even attacks) of 40 and claiming that 2/3rds of my posts were attacks on him was

not

?

I also get the feeling that Gayle earlier in the game was more interested in furthering the argument as opposed to scumhunting.

Show me an instance where I was "furthering the argument" as opposed to responding to accusations.

[Gayle]

Nothing really to add. Keeping my vote on DrPepper.

[Gayle]

electing someone who's going to be lynched?
Yos didn't get lynched, he got NKed, it's not like that was THAT predictable...

Or are we talking about something else and I need to get up to date quite dramatically?

I think cmar (or... someone) said that they wanted to elect a specific player (whose name I obviously don't remember)

because

they were going to lynched.

[Gayle]

I thought I returned my vote to DrPepper. Are you one of those "Unvote Is Serious Business" mods?

Unvote, Vote:DrPepper

Haven't really been paying attention to this game lately. I still think DrPepper needs more questioning. The problem with CMAR is that he got tate's vote in combination with CMAR having a very strange reason for trying to give tate the double vote.

DRK broke protocol by not calling me scummy immediately upon replacing in. I also want him to know that it is very immature to steal someone's avatar, flip it, and then use it for your own. I showed my mom what you did, and she only shook her head and mumbled something about how this country is becoming a socialist hell.

I seriously need to take a look at some of the other players. Which I will do. Eventually.

[Gayle]

Hey guys, what's happening?

[Gayle]

@DrPepper:

@DrPepper:

Would you have preferred if I had not responded to Yos and Neto? And which of my posts from day 0 do you find scummy?

[Gayle]

Yes, I would have you rather made your opinions clear, then successfully move on

I wasn't going to ignore attacks.

Seems like you are trying to stifle discussion
Optimum strategy should be part of discussion as well as worst case scenario

The strategy for this game was obvious and Netopalis' strategy was scummy. I'd still wager money on him being scum simply for the strategy he proposed.

I agree with Neto, you reactions seem unjustified and possibly paranoid

Can you clarify? Was I paranoid just because I didn't want to elect Yos? Why is not wanting to elect someone, and having reasons why, Paranoid?

Looks like a way to back out of your case in the future
You are purposefully unclear with your actions by joking around

I had no reason to back out of my case. My case was a list of reasons why I, as an individual, did not want elect Yos. Also, I'm going to joke around. That is just how I am. But in that case I was trying to show that my initial attacks on Yos were in order to get a read, not because I had a read.

An excuse for purposeful bad communication
Also unnecessary exaggeration

This is a stretch. Instead of saying I was making an excuse, show me the bad communication. You can see my overuse of the word disingenuous in some of my recently completed games.

A fake attempt at changing the subject
I still do not believe your reasoning makes sense

I was being attacked because Netopalis turned my "Why I don't want elect Yos" post into a "Why Yos Is Scum" post. Yos' subsequent attacks were misleading and sensational, which is why I came to suspect him. It wasn't a "fake" attempt to change the subject. It was genuine attempt. I didn't want to continue arguing about how I didn't find Yos scummy when his attacks had managed to changed my mind.

Thanks, DrPepper. I was kind of in a "fuck this, why even bother" attitude, but you've managed to renew my enthusiasm about this game.

Expect more posts before the day is out.

[Gayle]

In my previous post I stated that Netopalis' strategy alone was enough to find him scummy. I should probably explain that.

Why Netopalis' Strategy Is Scummy

Let's look at the strategy he suggested. His strategy is to concentrate the majority of votes into a few of the best players. This strategy is far more beneficial to scum than town.

-First, one of those "best" players could be scum.
-Secondly, should one of those "best" players be killed, and they would be, all of those accumulated votes have a chance to pass to scum.
-Thirdly, Netopalis states that there are bad players that cannot be trusted with voting power. This only limits the amount of people we can give our votes to, and makes the accumulation of voting power even faster. The "best" players with the most votes, who also happen to be town, will be killed without exception. This strategy will only get them killed one by one (or two by two, apparently), each time risking a great deal of votes passing to scum.

Essentially, it was a strategy to allow scum to gather a great deal of power very quickly.

[Gayle]

Your scummy but you shouldn't argue with me about why you aren't scummy

Firstly, I am talking to DrPepper. Let him respond.

Now, here is a summary of our argument

Of course I want Yos to be elected! I was the first vote on him and have been pushing it the whole time. What I don't get is why you don't want him elected. If it's not because he's scummy and it's not because you don't have faith in his abilities, then what's the deal? What you're saying seems to have no real consistency to it. Add some flour, stir for a bit and come back with something that sticks together a bit more.

Essentially, here are two points:
-I must either find Yos scummy or have no faith in his abilities to suggest against electing him.
-My reasons are not good enough to not want to elect him

My response to the first point is that there is actually a third option, the option that I used in the very post in which I suggested not electing Yos. That is, I simply had a bad feeling about him. As to the second, they are good enough for a me, as an individual, to wish to want to elect someone else.

This is as far as I am going to revisit our argument. People have long since made up their minds.

More posts coming.

[Gayle]

Also, I've said this before, but I'm not misspelling "you're". That is the way it is spelled in the new millennium.

[Gayle]

You want me to explain why you somehow failed to find Netopalis' strategy in his iso?

[Gayle]

Gayle: In a situation in which we have 1 vote to give out, which was yesterday, how would you advocate giving it out? We can't spread it out. We can't divide it. It's illogical to give it to anyone other than the best player.

This is misdirection. I am talking about your strategy, not the double vote. Your strategy was not simply to give your vote to Yosarian. Your strategy was for everyone to concentrate their votes in a small group of the "best" players, and this is what I am referring to as scummy.

[Gayle]

Your strategy was not simply to give

the double vote

to Yosarian. Your strategy was for everyone to concentrate their votes in a small group of the "best" players, and this is what I am referring to as scummy.

Is how my last post should have read.

You're the one that read "small group" into that.

Really? I'm pretty sure I specifically asked you if that is what you were suggesting.

Also, are you suggesting that we all give our votes to a few "best players"?

And yes, I am suggesting that.

That also doesn't explain your reaction to Yosarian.

Another attempt at misdirection. We are not discussing Yosarian. We are discussing your strategy.

[Gayle]

Says who? The whole point is that you suddenly and without reason adopted a confusing and indefensible position regarding Yosarian.

No, that is not the point. The point is your strategy is scummy.

As for the quote, we had already been discussing your stance for about 5 pages, if I recall, and I was getting sick of it. I wanted to shift the focus back onto your position so that we could move forward.

You recall incorrectly. Those quotes were from page 4, and I only had 6 posts previous to it. There was not yet any arguing for you to become sick of, or anything for you to shift focus back to.

This is specifically what I said[snip]

As evidenced in your quote, the only one who said anything about 5 players was you. That quote also comes later than what I quoted, in which you tell me that yes, you would like to concentrate the votes in a few players.

[Gayle]

Of those on my bandwagon, I have a problem with two.

AmishEd

Amished is simply bandwagoning. While he certainly did list me as scummy...

CMAR -> Dr.Pepper -> hp-leaves -> Gayle is my preferred lynch order for today.

...I was the last in line and his reasons for believing me scummy were by far the most vague:

Tate I had a scum read on due to his very first post (and Gayle's similar style/outlook is a large part of why I think he/she's scum) so I'm guessing Tate was a vig kill.

I think that since Tate was so adamant about Yos being suspicious and scum, Gayle is also scum

His suspicions can be summarized as follows:
-Tate didn't want to elect Yos
-Gayle didn't want to elect Yos
-Tate was scum
-Therefore Gayle must be scum.

I hope that you all realize that that is terrible logic.

In quote above you can see the order of Amished's suspicions. CMAR was his top suspect, and so it was fine for him to vote CMAR, right? But actually, that post doesn't actually explain

why

CMAR is scummy. It fact, the

only

suspicion of his that it explains is his suspicions of HP, who was third in line. Later, Amished changes his vote to DrPepper, with no explanation as why or what has changed his mind about CMAR. He then changes his vote to me.

Obviously people aren't as swayed by my Dr. Pepper post as I'd like. As I can't say I really agree with anybody voting for hp[leaves]; that gives me pause while Fishy and DRK (especially DRK) made points that reinforced my belief of Gayle-scum.

Even though Ed did not bother to actually question DrPepper while his vote was on him, he is surprised that few people agree with him. To remedy this, he changes his vote to someone they

will

agree with. Namely, the person they were already attacking, Gayle, because... well, because he agrees with what they said about Gayle.

@Amished: In your own words, tell me why I am a better lynch than all of the other players you suspect.

DRK

my current scum reads are (in no particular order):
sykedoc
vikingfan
raider8169

Neutral-Scummy
danakillsu
CryMeARiver

Scummy
sykedoc (Archon (Kamigawa))
vikingfan
raider8169
The1fifi

Vote: Gayle

What does trouble me about Gayle is the Gayle/tttt interplay day 0. Despite having essentially the same position day 0 regarding major issues, each practically pretended the other wasn't in the game, except when asked directly about the other.

This behavior from one side and not the other might suggest that the one ignoring the other was scum using the other's similar position to appear to be holding a pro-town position on the issue. Both exhibiting this behavior supports the conclusion that someone (I forget who it was) pointed out earlier: they're from different scum teams.

In summary, Gayle is scum because Gayle and Tate held similar views but did not high five or brofist one another. It is nothing but speculation.
Another problem is that you can't say holding the same view as scum is scummy, unless the view in question is scummy. However, DRK previously stated that he did

not

find that view scummy. Note that after this post, he does not bother with scum hunting anymore.

@DRK: Is this really the scummiest thing you have seen in the game?

And the rest?
Fishy: Fishy is wrong, but he properly explained his reasoning, so I don't have a problem with his vote.
danakillsu: Is voting me because of gut and for attacking DrPepper, who he feels is town. Can't really argue with him about his gut.
Netlava: Is voting me for saying that Yos was outright lying. In my opinion he

was

, so I can only shrug my shoulders at this.
DrPepper: You all already know my problems with DrPepper.


Hello, I'm OMGUS and I approve this message.

[Gayle]

I wasn't around much yesterday or most of today. If the game is still in day by the time I check in tomorrow, I'll look into whatever reasons you guys are bandwagoning me. If not, then I'll be making this face at you after my flip

[Gayle]

Gayle, why are you being so defensive? You are only clearing your name and attack those who acuse you. My town meta from you isn't like that.

Well, that wasn't supposed to be my last post at the time. I was going to look into the rest of the players, but I had other things to do.

Looked at Shotty and Steam's reasons for voting. I'm going to do the right them and

completely ignore

them.

@Amished:

Stopped reading at "You're full of shit. ". Netopalis' strategy is scummy. I've explained why it is scummy. That is all.


I'll be here for awhile, if anyone has any questions. I'll likely make one or two additional posts shortly.

[Gayle]

You'd better. You're certainly going to have to do a lot better than "I'll just ignore those votes because they're ridiculous" (paraphrased, of course)

I've already made that post.

[Gayle]

Vote: Gayle

For the same reasons as before (and without the SPS/SttB weird feeling). Also, I just view you as scum who thinks that changing your mind is a scumtell which is why you're so resistant to seeing the error of your ways.

The crux of your argument (from what I understand) is that better players aren't actually better.

Say you have two people, A and C. A is better at analyzing the game and finding scum due to experience in multiple situations. C isn't terrible, but just not as good as A. Since roles are randomized, (and given the typical 25-33% scum ratio) at the very least both A and C are twice as likely to be town than scum (66% chance to be town, 33% scum, 1% mod-screw.. >_>).

So, given that, why would anyone think that it's a better idea to not give the vote to A? They're more likely to not vote for town (or at least more likely to hit scum, due to experience); and they're also more likely to find town to give their votes to (also due to experience). So, if we *don't* want to waste our "talent" we should give more votes to A than to C solely due to the fact that they'll make better decisions and both are just as likely to be town as scum.

Your theory doesn't hold up logically or mathematically and I don't see how you can cling to this as hard as you are for any pro-town reasons.

What are you going on about? I'm saying it is a scummy strategy to want to concentrate the votes into a few people. The votes should be spread as evenly as possible, regardless of how skilled an individual player is. Concentrating votes into the best players only A) gets them killed, and B) makes large amounts of votes pass more quickly. Do you disagree?

[Gayle]

Amished, I don't understand what you are arguing here.

Concentrating votes in a few players means that upon that players death, a lot of power will be passed. Scum wins by accumulating a certain amount of voting power. Therefore, I'm saying that suggesting a strategy that would make a great deal of power transfer quickly is scummy.

Why is it scummy for me to argue that?

[Gayle]

Unfortunately, I can only post in one game at a time.

I'm the stubborn type, so I am not going to claim. I standby everything I said.

Remember the smugface.png. That is all.

[Gayle]

Okay, help me understand why I am scum. From my understanding I am scum because

1, I didn't want to elect Yos, and my reasons for that somehow aren't good enough
2, A player who flipped scum also did not want to elect Yos
3, I argued alot

That is a mountain of evidence?

[Gayle]

refuses claim, ============[] time

Unvote
Vote: Gayle

You missed. *smugface*

Gayle? Clear and consistent? It took 10 pages to finally get out a list of reasons why he found Yos to be "creepy".

Netopalis, that is a complete and utter lie. Are you saying I didn't list my reasons the very first time you asked me?

[Gayle]

Netopalis... how does your megapost about things that have long since been argued to death answer my question in anyway? How does it make your statement any less of a lie?

Gayle? Clear and consistent? It took 10 pages to finally get out a list of reasons why he found Yos to be "creepy".

Netopalis, that is a complete and utter lie. Are you saying I didn't list my reasons the very first time you asked me?

[Gayle]

Ah, I see. I apologize. I was imprecise with my words. What I meant was that it took 10 pages to establish that you found Yos to be a bad candidate because I was advocating for him and to establish that your finger of suspicion was not intended to, well, point to any suspicion.

But that is still wrong, because I listed you as one of the reasons I didn't want to elect Yos in the "Why Yosarian2 Is Creepy" post.

[Gayle]

I'm fine with being lynched at this point, seeing as apparently my lynch will give the most information. To prove my sincerity, I will provide you with a claim.

I am a wheelchair-bound thug. My wheelchair is equipped with an old school cassette-only boombox. I ride down the street in my hoveround blasting "Ambitionz Az A Ridah" and hittin' switches. In my left hand I carry a 40oz Colt 45, and in my right hand a fat blunt. The du-rag on my head is emblazoned with the words "Thug Life" and the tattoe on my pale white naked chest reads "Thug 'Til I Die". When I roll by all the fly chicks go "

God

damn!".

Two things though. First, a response to Netopalis.

Gayle: One more thing. Since you haven't addressed it last time or any other time I pointed it out...Why did you cast a finger of

suspicion

against Yos when you didn't

suspect

him?

I actually did answer this before. I used FoS in place of a vote (as the votes were to elect). It was the start of the game, so I wanted to see what I could get by attacking Yos.

Also,The post I was referring to was my original post in response to you asking me why Yos2 was creepy, which is on page 7.


And second, I agree with DRK on Fifi.

Gayle, why are you being so defensive? You are only clearing your name and attack those who acuse you. My town meta from you isn't like that.

Gayle.. i never saw you ignoring an attack on you. if they are so ridiculous.

Gayle is posting on other games with me and ignoring this...

You was sabotaging the fuck out of me. I thought we was homies from the 891, Fifi?

That is the proper use of "was" in my hood.

[Gayle]

So you claim ... after your wagon seems to be derailed

But you guys were all like "You're being anti-town!" and I felt bad...

[Gayle]

Vote: Gayle

I never lied once.
Good luck town. Unless Neto is town. Then bad luck!

Bad

luck to you!

[Gayle]

Assuming I'm allowed to talk in twilight, Is there something you want to know?