Stars Aligned II - Game Over!

[Phate]

I'm in favor of a noiseclaim. I also think anyone who gained an insanity should explain why.

[Phate]

Although, now that I look at it, I don't think you can gain an insanity on N0 except by laundering.

[Phate]

I heard noise, how's that, babycakes?

As did I.

[Phate]

Didn't ward. Lot of noise being heard.

[Phate]

Vote: Ellibereth

Mod: can you please confirm that the day has not ended?

Ani: Assuming you survive, you will rob graves every night. Furthermore, you shall not take any action that causes you to gain an insanity (my addition, but I stand by it). Any deviation from this course will lead to your lynch.

[Phate]

Support

the concept of breaking the game, although not necessarily Adel's plan; I haven't looked at it thoroughly. Consider this a support of Adel's plan unless I raise any objections after looking at it.

A note on SlySly's behavior: in my only other interaction with him (can't specify as game is ongoing), he has shown himself to be extremely in favor of 'playing to the spirit of the game', which he appears to define as not cooperating with the town except to vote, discuss, and lynch. The comments he's made about me having a massclaim fetish and appointing myself town leader may tie in with this.

I think it's more likely he's scum who's trying to provoke me into replacing out and opposing concerted plans in order to win, but the possibility exists that he is simply as incompetent a player as he is a mod.

[Phate]

Mod: Can you please explain your policy on kill flavor? Specifically, is there a standardized kill flavor, and are Murder and Ritual distinguished? Is there a distinction between Murder committed by Investigators and Murder committed by Murderers?

[Phate]

This is Percy's game, and he defines the spirit of the game, as well as whether it matters. We need mod confirmation on this before we even begin to deal with Adel's plan.

Mod: I would like to know whether Adel's proposed plan in post 385 (or a similar one) a) is against the current rules, or b) will result in any mod alteration of the rules, disciplinary mod action against those who participate in the plan (other than the Insanity Infraction for failing to post *twitch*) (please provide specifics, if any).

What I'm asking you, in short, is whether you have a problem with a concerted attempt to break your setup, or whether you would take steps to prevent this midgame if you thought this was possible.

[Phate]

Something Nicodemus said early on rubbed me the wrong way, namely the way he fundamentally misunderstood the way ward worked. I realize that some people are less prone to carefully looking over the rules than others, but I know that I examined the Investigator actions very carefully and only skimmed the Cultist actions. Of the 'lurkers' (it's a bit early to call people lurkers, so I say it with scare-quotes, but he's not among the prolific posters so far and he hasn't contributed much yet), I'm most sure he is scum.

[Phate]

Bleh.

Mod: replace me please.

I've been trying for the last few hours to decide whether I want to play in this game. I started questioning when the mod answered my 'do you have a problem with us breaking your game' post.

I really like this game. I love the flavor and the theme, and the way everything in the rules is explicit, cross-referenced, and color-coded. I like the idea of paranoid investigators going rogue and becoming murderers while the cult stays cohesive and gradually kills off the investigators. Hell, I even like some of the players in the game. I am disappointed to leave this game.

At the same time, I feel a bit betrayed as a player. I don't like that Percy essentially told me "You can try any tactic you want, but if it works I'll make it fail to work". I hate the idea of the rules being changed mid-game, especially in a game which doesn't have a 'I reserve the right to change the rules' rule (unless you count "The mod's decisions are final", and I don't). What really gets me is that this seems to be actively barring players from attempting to work together and coordinate night actions, or to make it less efficient (I'm not sure where the threshold is), and town cooperation and coordination is one of the most fun parts of the game for me.

Gah. I'm starting to rant a bit, which was not my intention. Anyway: with no irony at all, congratulations for a very well-designed game, Percy, but I don't think it's for me. If you don't have a replacement lined up, PM me and I'll find one.

[Phate]

Alright, consider post 408 to have not existed. Percy's post 409 definitely set my mind at ease.

[Phate]

DGB, I would like to know whether you still feel that SlySly is scum in light of the fact that he calling for modkills on two townies.

[Phate]

Unvote, Vote: Iecerint

explainez vous?

CRAZY IDEA THAT NOONE SHOULD TAKE SERIOUSLY BUT I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT.
This is also probably flawed as hell, but whatever:
We somehow come together with a list of 12 peoples not counting Ani that are "town", and we run Adel's killing plan with the town reads killing off everyone else.
If I'm being an idiot, ignore this post.

i don't see what's changed enough for the opposers (myself included) to support this

on slysly - sit on uncle drenchy's lap, everyone, and listen to my story

this. is. not. a. scumtell.

we are basing the fact that sly is scum because he requested it on information that is /not even known/. how can you say someone's scum just because he requested modkills on players who 'might be town'? not to mention that they were actually breaking the rules. and probability says that there's a good chance they're both town anyway.

so yeah

Actually, no. I put up with this from SlySly because he appears to be retarded and he's probably scum, but you don't get to repeat what he says as though it's truth. I challenge you to find where I broke a rule. Take it to PM if you like - point out one single instance of where I discussed this game outside of this game. Until that, you don't get to call me a rulebreaker.

[Phate]

I'm not feeling a Chacolynch. I looked at him in iso, and while I don't get townvibes from him, I don't think he's as scummy as, say, Ellibereth or Nicodemus.

[Phate]

Ellibereth, I am in favor of your plan, but you can stop wasting your breath because there are several town players who shirk their duty to play to win.

[Phate]

Vote: Nicodemus

[Phate]

Iecerint: Thinking of your name like 'Yeckerint' helps me remember how to spell it.

Don't misrep me.

I'm not feeling a Chacolynch. I looked at him in iso, and while I don't get townvibes from him, I don't think he's as scummy as, say, Ellibereth or Nicodemus."

!= 'hall of fame scum player'

I do like

his

plan. I'm not completely certain that he's scum, and I could see the plan coming from a scum, as it's obvious that no plan that bears any similarities with a plan that Adel or I propose is going to happen in this game for fear of 'omg i don't want to break the game'

[Phate]

why would they? That would be leaving the team that's vastly favored to win in order to take a role that has no chance of winning (since the Murderer wincon takes six nights, and there wouldn't be enough players left).

[Phate]

You set aside X players to do something that won't make them bloody, where X is the number of players the cult can kill or make bloody +1.

[Phate]

That was @farside.

[Phate]

*elvis. whatever

[Phate]

Unvote; Vote: Ellibereth

If we're not going to follow Elli's plan, we need to lynch him. Elli's definitely going the murder route. No one who intends to win the game as an investigator is going to stalk n0.

[Phate]

Iec, because ani has a job to do. If not for VP's plan, I'd be lynching ani as well. In fact, I'd be okay with lynching ani and having Elli be the designated graverobber. But one of them needs to die.

[Phate]

Iec, because ani has a job to do. If not for VP's plan, I'd be lynching ani as well. In fact, I'd be okay with lynching ani and having Elli be the designated graverobber. But one of them needs to die.

I think you mean Sajin's plan which VP mentioned.

Right.

[Phate]

No.

If we're not doing Elli's plan, don't post a list of who you think is most town. You might as well be painting targets on them.

[Phate]

If we're not doing Elli's plan

, don't post a list of who you think is most town. You might as well be painting targets on them.

[Phate]

I'll believe that when we get 2/3 of people to agree to this.

[Phate]

We lost Adel for this?

goddamn.

[Phate]

Probably. But that's not related to the fact that they're still voting them. Most of those players haven't checked back since Ani was confirmed, or are still catching up.

[Phate]

If either pair of a shooter/shootee dies, we should lynch the other. By planning to leave a shooter alive, you're assuming that not a single person we designate as a shooter is scum. Bad idea.

[Phate]

Note that the plan still works if some people refuse to do it. If we don't have about 2/3 onboard (about 1/2 for shooters, plus some more to hold aside for chaos and to ward, etc), it's not possible.

[Phate]

He's awfully grouchy in this game. He's much friendlier via PM.

Whom?

[Phate]

We lost Adel for this?

godd@#n

.

Most "swear" words are not banned. However, going out of your way to annoy or upset users who find certain words offensive falls under the previous guideline.

Call me a MF'r, Ahole, POS, SOB, etc... all day long and I have no problem with. Chill on the GD, please. This is one phrase I do find offensive. This is a friendly request.

Request granted.

[Phate]

Iecerint and SlySly,

Shut the fuck up.

Or at least condense things into fewer posts. I'm guilty of this as well, but the last ~2 pages are almost entirely pointless back-and-forths between the two of you. And this

after

SlySly blames the high post count on Adel and I.

Unvote; Vote: Nicodemus

[Phate]

Sajin, what differentiates Startransmission from the other lurkers? Why would you rather lynch a lurker than several of the good wagons (at least one on a lurker) that exist?

Please answer as completely as possible so we don't have to go back and forth and pollute the thread.

[Phate]

Unvote; Vote: Iecerint

Iecerint is a better lynch than Nico, actually. I was the one that started the Nico wagon, but I don't trust how fast it's growing. Iecerint, on the other hand, is obvscum. Look at how he continues to deliberately post in an anti-town manner. This doesn't sync with my prior experience of Iecerint.

[Phate]

Unvote; Vote: Iecerint

Iecerint is a better lynch than Nico, actually. I was the one that started the Nico wagon, but I don't trust how fast it's growing. Iecerint, on the other hand, is obvscum. Look at how he continues to deliberately post in an anti-town manner. This doesn't sync with my prior experience of Iecerint

It's ture that Iecerint attacking SC is bad. I don't see why you believe he's deliberately posting in an anti-town manner though, or why Cultists would want to act in such a manner.

At this point, the Nico case is far stronger.

Oh, really? Nico case is far stronger? As I recall (from when I started the Nico wagon), the case on Nico is that he's been lurking and he misunderstood how ward worked. Am I missing anything?

Don't get me wrong - Nico is scummy. But look at Iecerint's posts for the last ~5 pages. He's posting like he's intentionally trying to make the post-count explode - baiting SlySly (from whom I get the sense that he feels the need to respond to everything that could be directed at him; unlike Iecerint, who appears to just respond to everything and invent things if there's nothing), lots of ebwops, lots of pointless posts, lots of responding to things that don't need responses, etc. And all this while people are screaming to slow down, to let them catch up.

[Phate]

^ Then you probably should have brought it up from the beginning. Then you might have gotten your 3 pages.

i havent posted in those twelve pages, I wasnt there to stop yall :p

dram: this post is pointless. If you think Iecerint is scum (and I thought I recalled you saying you do; apologies if I'm wrong), you don't have to justify yourself to him. If you think he's town, then this exchange is still pointless.

Please. Conserve posts, guys. Before you make a post, ask whether it's contributing something to the game. Not everyone can be as active as the core of us, and if we don't slow down, we're going to be playing in a game full of lurkers and flakers.

[Phate]

DGB, do you think CSL is town? Why or why not?

[Phate]

DGB, please acknowledge that you saw the question in my last post.

[Phate]

I have no idea what's going on. I refuse to replace out.

You think I'm useless now Magua? You haven't even gotten a glimpse of just how useless I can be when I put my mind to it.

Ok, go on and discuss semantics!

You're probably scum, but in the event that you're not, get the fuck out this game, please.

[Phate]

I have no idea what's going on. I refuse to replace out.

You think I'm useless now Magua? You haven't even gotten a glimpse of just how useless I can be when I put my mind to it.

Ok, go on and discuss semantics!

You're probably scum, but in the event that you're not, get the fuck out this game, please.

Where's your vote?

On Iecerint, who is one tier above you in my list of people I'm ready to lynch.

[Phate]

@startransmission:

You just acknowledged that you were completely useless and knew it; then stated that you have no plans to replace out. You are correct about being completely useless, and I have no confidence that you will suddenly start contributing in anything but the most superficial 'posting to avoid modkill, guess I'll ask a random question of someone on this page' manner. I think you're probably scum, and if you're not I encourage you to replace out so that we might get a better player.

----

I don't think I've played with Magua before, but I'm already impressed. I disagree insofar that I'm completely convinced Adel was town, I'm unsure of DGB's alignment, and I don't think Elli is cult (although I do think he's planning to go murderer). Other than that, I think I agree with everything in Magua's post.

----

If you're replaced, maybe we can trade you in for another Magua.

[Phate]

Can you explain why you are completely convinced? Even if you disagree that trying to keep town from sharing info is scummy, I don't see how he was strongly town, but it's possible I missed something.

If the biggest read you've taken away from Adel is his annoyance at the town noiseclaiming without his permission at the beginning of d1, you need to reread the thread. Adel played completely in-character, to the point of replacing out and throwing a bit of a fit when the mod told him he wasn't allowed to break the game. That's not scum behavior in general, and definitely not for Adel.

[Phate]

I find it very interesting that many of the replacement requesters are still very active in other games.

I don't. This game is probably going much faster than whatever else they're in.

[Phate]

startransmission: "I'm not scum, and the only people I think are scum are everyone who thinks I'm scum."

start is likely scum.

Iecerint is still scum, though. I'll move my vote if it becomes apparent that an Iecerint lynch isn't happening today, or if my scum readings change such that someone else is my highest suspect.

[Phate]

Now that SlySly's game is over, I can tell you guys one of the reasons I think Iecerint is scum.

SlySly's game is the only game I've ever played in with Iecerint. Furthermore, I'm not in any other games, and haven't been since this one started.

In SlySly's game, I was town and Iecerint was scum. Iecerint knows this, because I was dead (or rather, my replacement was) before I signed up for this game. And yet he claims to have a 'secret scumtell' on me that he can't talk about due to an ongoing game. elvis_knits stated that it's scummy to mention 'secret scumtells' based on ongoing games if you can't elaborate anyway. I'm not sure whether I agree with that, but I think we can all agree that it's scummy if he knows that no such scumtell exist.

For those interested, SlySly's (now-completed) game is here http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12922 - look at it, then lynch Iecerint please.

[Phate]

Really? Your secret scumtell hinges on me following Sly's game after I requested replacement? I stopped following the game after I replaced out, other than to check whether it was still ongoing.

That's your secret scumtell? Bullshit. Not buying it.

[Phate]

After I replaced out, I kept it on Watched Topics, but didn't really follow it except for a bit in the beginning to see how tubby did with my playerslot. I've been keeping an eye on the title, waiting for "Game Over" so I can post this. I didn't think to check your alignment.

Bah, I have a suspicion that I was wrong and that this is town-on-town. Other than you being fucking annoying for no reason, I was sure you were scum for the secret scumtell bullshit. Now I have to go read you in iso.

My 959 is alternating confusion and aggression. I meant it as disputing that you had a secret scumtell at all and were just pulling this out of your ass, but I wasn't sure enough to pursue the point. My whole reaction was pretty off-the-cuff.

[Phate]

I read that post, frowned, thought "wtf? I was there. He definitely didn't play nearly as anti-town as he is now", and filed it away under 'things to dismiss because they come from scum'.

I skimmed you in iso. You have a tendency to exaggerate what people post in such a way to attempt to make their posts seem suspect even if the post in question is not suspect (in my opinion). I noticed this pertaining to myself, and EK has complained about it as well. You've also flip-flopped back and forth on several issues (notably on whether the plan will work, and whether Adel/myself are scum - I think you think we must both be the same alignment, and oscillate on which that is). Furthermore, you're fucking annoying, you're almost as aggressive as I am but in a snarkier way, and you post way too often even knowing that it's harmful to the town.

That said, a lot of what you post is content. I don't agree with a lot of what you say, but reasoning is there. I'm not convinced you're scum (though you clearly still think I am). You're knocked down to the middle tier of players (on a scum-town scale).

Unvote; Vote: startransmission

[Phate]

(Did you mean to say that you thought I thought you and Sly were the same alignment?)

No, meant what I said.

[Phate]

Phate, from my experience with you, you are usually wrong about everything you say. Pick a stance and the rest of us can rest assured the opposite is most likely the truth.

Don't go fuck yourself.

[Phate]

Nic, see my recent post talking to Katy, I think, for my brief opinion on why Adel is town.

Iecerint, I lol'd.

[Phate]

First thing to note is that no one died of ritual.

Wanna know why? I was the target. Thanks for the successful reuscitate. I lost my own rez-kit. I'm bloody now, and for my insanity (this is my first one, by the way), I took Twitchy.

Vote: Phate

<-- this should prove it when Percy edits in an insanity infraction.

Note that all of the Murderers will be bloody and insane, as will the cultists, so everyone other than me that's bloody and insane is probably scum. Let's hear some investigation results.

Oh, and second thing to note is that we have at least three and possibly as many as five murderers. Elli's probably lying about who he stalked, and ani could also be lying. We need to lynch the claimed murderers before we can do anything.

Insanity Infraction

[Phate]

Percy, if I make *twitches* my sig, will you count that for Twitchy, a la Stars Aligned I?

No.

[Phate]

@Elli: why isn't sly on your list?

The above quote refers to Ellibereth's list of town players.

This is a clear example of Nicodemus trying to influence the town list. Why would he do try to influence the town list to include a townie?

SlySly is scum.

I think the dramonic wagon, though understandable, is a bit premature. No one is a murderer yet, but there are scum already. We should be trying to lynch scum, not a later potential 3rd party.

I think the point is that dram either rolled cult -or- he rolled investigator who will choose to become a murderer. Why are you not thinking about the scenario where dramonic rolled cultist?

vote slysly

This is extremely weak. Elvis's reasoning for continuing to push the dramonic wagon is nothing more than "dramonic might have drawn scum"? Sly had already said why he wasn't pursuing the dramonic wagon, but E_K tries to bully him onto it anyway with shoddy reasoning. Seriously, if the only reasoning we need to vote for people is that they "might have drawn scum", well, we might as well just go home now.

Here we have Nic defending SlySly and dram. dram is probably also scum.

Overall reads:

People who are town: Ani, Sajin, VP, slysly, iLord
People who are neutral, leaning town: Phate, Magua, Iecerint, Katy, Wicked
People who are neutral: DGB, Chaco, dramonic, Sarag, Startransmission, Faraday, CSL, Ellibereth
People who are neutral, leaning scum: Drench, E_K, Hayker, evilsnail,
Diescumdie: vikingfan, SOG

Ani is here because he's 'clear' of not being a cultist. I'll look closer at Sajin, VP, and iLord, but I know they're among the most rational posters, so he could just be going by who's accumulated the most townie-points. Putting more than one scum player in his ultra-town section is unlikely when he knew he was a candidate for the d1 lynch. SlySly is scum. Iecerint was probably scum. Magua is possible scum. Katy is likely scum. Wicked is likely scum. The 'neutral' reads are the most interesting, and most scum are probably in this category. The fact that Nico attacked EK and put her in 'neutral leaning scum' makes me think EK is town. Note that Adel is also in this category, and in fact he mentions 'scumslips' that he made, although reading Nic in iso I couldn't find any good examples he pointed out. Adel is, like I said, definitely town.

In Nik's post 15, he immediately backs off of EK once she backs off of Sly, which further convinces me that Sly is scum and EK is town.

Guys, Sly is scum. There's plenty of Nic defending Sly - I encourage anyone who's serious about winning this game to read Nic in iso - but the important bit is that Nik,

a confirmed scum player, tried to influence the list of 'town' players Elli was making for the Texas-Justice style massacre in order to put SlySly on the town list.

There is

no motive

for him to do that if Sly was town. Keep in mind that at this point Nic was not under serious suspicion, so WIFOM isn't even a motive. This link is damning.

This will not be a fun wagon - particularly for me, but likely not for anyone who votes him. SlySly has already demonstrated that he's more than willing to use ad hominem attacks in place of logic and 'ethical' arguments to obscure points and muddy the water. I believe that I was right earlier when I suspected Sly was intentionally trying to provoke me into replacing out - he must have reasoned that I replaced out of his game, he could make me replace out of this one. Don't expect anything worth attention to come out of SlySly today.

Unvote; Vote: SlySly

*twitch*

Preview Edit: Oh, and murderers. You have one more night (unless you were so dumb as to already pick Psychopathy) to step down from your 'win via murder' route. If there are murdered players the day after tomorrow, we'll have to stop going after cultists and start lynching murderers.

[Phate]

Thread #671: The list Nico was probably referring to. SlySly's not on the list entirely.

Okay, yeah. That ~invalidates my entire point. Damn it.

The fact that Nico was defending Sly all day yesterday still makes me think he's likely scum, but it's not a certainty like I thought it was.

Since there's no guaranteed scum, let's start lynching probable scum.

Unvote; Vote: Ellibereth

.

*twitch*

[Phate]

I REQUEST TO BE LYNCHED TOMORROW. I WILL BE KILLING CSL TONIGHT

I realize I have to be lynched sooner or later, but can we wait for later plz. kthx.

Changed your mind?

[Phate]

Ani, other than paranoid, what did you get from the grave?

[Phate]

*twitches*

I was murdered last night, but obviously saved as well. Looks like animorv decided to try to kill me...

I'm inclined to believe Hayker. It obv could have been someone other than ani, but ani's likeliest, and needs to die anyway.

Unvote; Vote: animorpherv1

*twitch*

[Phate]

Right now, we just gotta sit tight and wait for everyone who rezzed to claim. Especially the player who rezzed Hayker/Phate - they're both likely town. If CSL's rezzer does not claim, than we can assume it was done by scum and that Elli would probably not be a good lynch today.

Or that Elli lied about his stalk target, which is also likely.

[Phate]

There were three deaths. Ani and Elli claimed attempted stalk/murder. That's five. If Ani and Elli were lying about their targets, the number goes down to three.

[Phate]

@Magua - I'm not speculating. My PM explicitly told me that
A) I was targeted by the Ritual
and
B) I was rezz'd.

[Phate]

Uh, question. Was the wagon on me because of my predecessor, or policy before post 1263?

Because you're scum. And quite bad at it. I fully expect your team to bus you now.

Unvote; Vote: CSL

*twitch*

As you command.

Actually, this is a response to 'i, uh, auto-laundered'

[Phate]

Uh, question. Was the wagon on me because of my predecessor, or policy before post 1263?

Because you're scum. And quite bad at it. I fully expect your team to bus you now.

And why, exactly, am I scum?

Town, please tell me if I missed something.
1. You over-killed Nico
2. You were protected by someone who is most likely a cultist
3. You laundered while not bloody.

Even if there was an auto-launder, I think that 2 is a pretty good reason for suspicions.

This feels like a bus. I can't exactly put my finger on why. The "let me get this straight" tone, I suppose.

I agree that I want to hear who rezz'd me before we lynch. Hayker, too.