Mini 931: Supreme Court Mafia (Game Over post 682)

[Jack]

Setup is interesting I think. The CIA agent is the serial killer obviously, but who are the mafia?

[Jack]

Are you going to base your non-random vote off of the answers themselves (as your first post seemed to indicate)? Or am I just extrapolating too much from the juxtaposition of those two phrases?

I think basing a non-random vote off of the answers would be fine.

[Jack]

1) How much experience do you have playing Mafia?

Quite a bit, around 2 years play on another site and 11 games here on MS, not including 3 mod abandoned games.

2) How would you describe your playstyle?

Varied. Long winded.

3) What do you value the most in making decisions in Mafia?

Gut feeling

4) Do you expect the Spanish Inquisition?

Eh?

5) Do you prefer playing as mafia or as town?

I prefer playing as scum. The fun part is trying to fool the other people, I find it more enjoyable than trying to not be fooled.

6) How many games are you playing in at the moment?

5, including this one.

7) What do you consider to be your greatest strength as town? As mafia?

I'm usually good at avoiding suspicion, which is helpul for either faction.

[Jack]

It will be interesting to see what Netopolis is going to conclude from these answers.

[Jack]

Hmm. I guess Net didn't notice that I didn't answer any of the questions myself--I copied and pasted the answers of other people.

[Jack]

Hmm. I guess Net didn't notice that I didn't answer any of the questions myself--I copied and pasted the answers of other people.

Care to explain why you copy and pasted instead of actually answering the questions?

I was skimming all the other answers and thought to myself "no one is really reading these". So I figured I'd test my theory and check how closely Netopolis was reading them too.

[Jack]

I forgot to

vote: Jack

.

Explain what you think is suspicious about my copy and paste.

[Jack]

Interesting. Why did you choose to do that?

I was skimming all the other answers and thought to myself "no one is really reading these". So I figured I'd test my theory and check how closely Netopolis was reading them too.

Why do you think you missed it?

[Jack]

What the hell Jack! You just copied and pasted everyone else's answers?

vote jack

Why do you think this is suspicious?

[Jack]

I don't understand.

[Jack]

Setup is interesting I think. The CIA agent is the serial killer obviously, but who are the mafia?

I'm sorry, where did it say that there is a serial killer?

I'm still curious where you determined the CIA agent is "obviously" the serial killer?

I'm afraid you guys are on a need to know basis. And right now, you don't need to know.

[Jack]

You only think you do. I'm (apparently) the only one who sees that you don't.

What do you think of pwman? I think his vote and followup are odd.

[Jack]

Where did I copy and paste votes?

[Jack]

Or we could call you "green tulip-like flower containing a globe".

btw, plenty of people play like you suggested. I do it myself sometimes. But instead of saying that they aren't going to explain their posts, they just say "gut feeling".

[Jack]

You had me at "light scum" after the SK comment, and were voting Darox. So it seems like just refusing to answer the question has put me above Darox for you, and indeed to the point where it is worthwhile lynching me "to get information"?

[Jack]

Why is that? Btw, that's what I meant by "refusal to answer the question", I didn't mean your set of questions. I don't see it as suspicious.

[Jack]

Well, I asked you what was suspicious. You haven't really answered, just said "these two posts". I presume a gut feel as well. Could you lay out the whole theory behind it to me?

Now, I'm pretty much laying it in front of you: Would you rather be lynched, or would you rather answer?

If I said I'd rather be lynched would you think I'm mafia or town? I don't understand.

[Jack]

Sure. In the game of Mafia, there are at least two groups: An uninformed majority and an informed minority. The informed minority is the mafia and the uninformed majority is the town. The town wins when they gain information. The scum wins when information remains hidden. You are hiding information. Therefore, you are pushing towards the scum goal.

What's your credit card number? I kid.

Lynching townies is a scum goal. So if you are trying for my lynch, should I say you are pushing towards a scum goal?

I think what you are saying here is too general. Town benefits from gaining information about player alignment. Not just any old information. Why am I as scum refusing to answer?

Applying these general paradigms (e.g. anti town is scummy) doesn't work well without a lot to flesh it out.

If you said you'd rather be lynched, then I'd push for your lynch.

Because you'd think I was mafia or because you are annoyed? Are you just pressuring me or do you really think I'm suspicious?

[Jack]

Since when is 2 people voting a bandwagon? I was the second person on because Jack copied and pasted votes. Even if he hadn't done that I'd still be on now with his refusal to answer questions

1) I didn't copy and paste votes
2) I haven't refused to answer question

s

, only one question.

Vote:pwnman

Fishy: Sure,

I can produce

a scummy reason for Jack's actions. First, he is deliberately being confusing. Even if he is town, he would have had no other reason to bring up the matter in the first place. He is attempting to derail the game by his cryptic responses as well. Also, he is, I think, trying to benefit from early suspicion being cleared, which often means that the player will be looked at with less suspicion later in the game. If he establishes an extremely scummy style of play now, in the late game, if he plays in a more pro-town fashion, he will look much less like scum, regardless of his actual alignment. Thus, in a sense, it can be something of a protectionist move.

So you came up with this one just now. You're making the logic fit the conclusion, then. Let's say I started (for some reason) with the conclusion that you were scum. In that light, your starting the game with the questions would be an attempt to make yourself look pro town and to control discussion early. You didn't notice my answers were copy pasted because you were scum faking suspicion on Darox. Now you think I know something about the setup that you don't, and as scum you want to know what it is, so you threaten to lynch me unless I spill the beans.

If you are town surely you can see how far astray starting with a conclusion and then finding a scum motive for someones behavior can take you.

[Jack]

pro·duce (pr-ds, -dys, pr-)
v. pro·duced, pro·duc·ing, pro·duc·es
v.tr.
1. To bring forth; yield

It is the reason that I found you scummy to begin with

, I'm just bringing it forward now. Respond substantively.

You never said anything about this, even when asked. You "couldn't imagine any protown situation" and then I was scummy because I was "hiding information and working towards a scum goal" and then you "couldn't imagine a pro town situation" again.

So, you were "hiding information" from the town when you didn't mention this, yes?

btw, why do you think the "early suspicion will be cleared"?

[Jack]

You had me at "light scum" after the SK comment, and were voting Darox. So it seems like just refusing to answer the question has put me above Darox for you, and indeed to the point where it is worthwhile lynching me "to get information"?

Well, you are already saying you have information that could be vitel to the town.

I'm afraid you guys are on a need to know basis. And right now, you don't need to know.

And refusing to

help the town with your information

, you can see why the heat is on you, no? therefor if you won't give it up willingly, the lynch to get info maybe our only choice as regards to you for the best of the town,

It's not helpful, and available for all to see in any case.

[Jack]

I didn't bother to explicitly state it because I thought it was obvious. Answer the bloody question.

I want to know why you think the early suspicion on me will be cleared.

Unless you're going to do the "I asked first" thing.

[Jack]

My conversation starters are soooo much more fun then question lists.

Someone in this room is trying to kill them, but the only people in the room that are not justices are the two attorneys and the secret service agent..

Have you read this bit from the OP netopolis?

[Jack]

You weren't far off in your suspicion Net. Except your confirmation bias was twisting it the wrong way (but conf bias is a town tell so it's ok).

That first post was my version of the conversation starter. The fact that there was no CIA agent in the setup gave me an "out" once the starter had run it's course. Proof that it wasn't a scumslip, basically. That it was just made up.

[Jack]

Why didn't you reveal your method for determining if the answers were suspicious before everyone had answered your questions?

[Jack]

Setup is interesting I think. The CIA agent is the serial killer obviously, but who are the mafia?

I'm sorry, where did it say that there is a serial killer?

I'm still curious where you determined the CIA agent is "obviously" the serial killer?

I'm afraid you guys are on a need to know basis. And right now, you don't need to know.

You only think you do. I'm (apparently) the only one who sees that you don't.

So how do you know it's CIA?

It seems like this is from a role PM.

If you don't wish to comment there's only one thing to do =(

Vote: Jack

It sounds like you skipped the rest of the thread after that post...

I don't buy the fake =( emotion either.

fos:DarklightA

[Jack]

I already answered in post 104. I don't know jack about it.

[Jack]

No pun intended.

[Jack]

Not good enough. I hope you enjoy dangling.

You're ready to lynch

[Jack]

Absolutely.

Is this still your "jack is trying to confuse the town and make himself look innocent when he changes his style" theory?

[Jack]

A person might have accidentally done that as an SK who has the CIA agent role and thought it was mentioned in the OP - if you notice, he doesn't realize until I point it out that the OP said secret service.

Your theory is that I didn't read the bit I quoted for you?

My conversation starters are soooo much more fun then question lists.

Someone in this room is trying to kill them, but the only people in the room that are not justices are the two attorneys and the secret service agent..

Have you read this bit from the OP netopolis?

Of course I have, but you said

CIA

agent, not secret service. Why did you say that? If it was from the OP, why not just say that instead of saying that there's a reason but that we don't want to know it?

The ONLY people in the room who aren't justices are the attorneys and the secret service agent. There is no CIA agent.

[Jack]

Proof that it wasn't a scumslip, basically.

Not saying it was a scumslip. Saying that it's a SK-slip.

-.-

What's the difference?

How can there actually be a CIA agent in the setup when the write up confirms that there isn't?

[Jack]

Then why the heck would you even mention it?

As I said, a conversation starter.

At least your theory about it being a ploy to be seen as innocent after the initial suspicion cleared had some merit. I don't get people thinking that scum would basically confess in the opening post.

And here I was trying to tone it down after people took my page one "who wants to be investigated tonight?" post as a cop soft claim in that other game.

[Jack]

How can there actually be a CIA agent

in the setup when the write up confirms that there isn't?

Setup is interesting I think.

The CIA agent is the serial killer obviously

, but who are the mafia?

As I said, a conversation starter.

*HEAD DESK*
*HEAD DESK*
*HEAD DESK*
*HEAD DESK*
*HEAD DESK*
*HEAD DESK*

You are basically quoting jason here, even the mannerisms.

[Jack]

Proof that it wasn't a scumslip, basically.

Not saying it was a scumslip. Saying that it's a SK-slip.

-.-

What's the difference?

How can there actually be a CIA agent in the setup when the write up confirms that there isn't?

Actually... it says secret service... that can include CIA... the write up does not confirm there is no CIA.. it just confirms there are secret service agents..

/HEAD-DESK

The secret service is completely separate from the CIA.

[Jack]

He's right about that, at least. The Secret Service is under the Treasury Department.

So, wait. You decide that you're going to claim something that is a complete lie about the setup, breadcrumb a fake PR and then act like you're hiding information

in an attempt to start conversation

? Am I understanding you correctly?

It works like a charm. Especially since all you have to do is check the OP and see that my post was not a serious claim.

And it's part of the department of homeland security right now, at least according to my role pm.*

*sarcasm test.

[Jack]

It pains me that the asterisk is needed btw.

[Jack]

I don't think Jack is scum or a SK right now.

I don't think most of the people on his case are scum either, although it would hardly surprise me if at least one of them was.

Not even DarkLightA or pwnman?

[Jack]

He's right about that, at least. The Secret Service is under the Treasury Department.

Actually it's under the Dept. of Homeland Security, but before 2003 it was under the treasury. I'll post more later...

People keep doing this...I don't understand. Did you get to his post and then just stop and write a reply? You skipped or skimmed the rest of the posts?

[Jack]

EBWOP: *facepalm* I meant Secret Service agent .

Interesting, let's go through it.

Bub votes me for copying and pasting the answers (44)
I explain in (45) and ask him why he thinks it's suspicious in (46)
In (48) I post the explanation for the 2nd time, in response to a direct question
In (69)

At this point Jack is so anti-town that he is unlikely to be scum. No scum in his right mind would openly deny information that could be helpful to the town.

However, until you are willing to explain more as to why you copy and pasted votes and what makes you think there's a CIA-serial killer, then my vote will remain on you.

I'm not likely to be scum, he just wants answers (one of these was answered already, twice in fact. He even says "votes" instead of "answers)

In (91)

The point is that usually when somebody is so blatantly anti-town, then they're probably not scum, because scum isn't that stupid.

I'm voting for Jack to try and get answers.

However, if it comes down to it I'll lynch him, mainly because I don't want it in the end-game if he goes on to ruin it regardless of whether he's scum or not. Also, if you noticed in the game above, all of the scum (including me) were on Stuart's wagon. That was because he was such an easy lynch that day. That leads me to believe that pwn and Jason are scummy. Neto had decent reasons for his vote, but the others come off as opurtunistic scum, especially pwn. FOS: Pwn

The first sentence of the 2nd paragraph is a doozy. "Jack probably isn't scum, but I'll lynch him because I don't want him in endgame regardless of whether he's scum or not"???

He thinks pwn and jason are scummy, especially pwn.

(108) has some strangeness.

While I can see that possibly the secret service agent is the serial killer and the lawyers are the mafia, but how do you know that to be the case.

He still just wants me to answer. But note that this assumes no CIA agent. He's assuming that I know the secret service agent is the serial killer. He also thinks the lawyers are mafia for some reason.

(125)

Jack's play has gone far and beyond what is "normal" anti-town play.

He is refusing to answer questions, and (as has been just mentioned) the whole CIA agent thing looks like a scum slip. He then tried to ride out the wave by just playing poorly. Right now, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't lynch Jack

This looks like he is deciding to join the bandwagon. Everything he is listing as suspicious is things he just wanted answers to earlier, and things that he thought made me "probably not scum".

He is claiming that the CIA agent thing is a scumslip, but he has already shown that he doesn't believe there is a CIA agent.

(148)

I simply wanted answers. However, his outright refusal to give any, and several good points that Net and others have brought up

(such as the CIA thing)

have all but confirmed my

original ickling of suspision.

This is where Bub looks the most scummy.

He was obviously just pushing for answers early on, and he thought I was probably not scum. But he decided to join the wagon. He claims to have suspected me originally (contradicts what he's said many times). And he thinks the "CIA thing" is a good point, despite the fact that he has shown several times (including in the latest post) that he

doesn't believe there is a CIA agent in the setup

.

Summary:

His accusations are sloppy, often ignoring that they have already been answered, and he mixes up words.
Does a rapid about face when it looks like I'm in danger of being lynched (his posts imply that he thinks I

will

be lynched

Conclusion: bandwagoning scum

unvote:pwnman, vote:Buba Budderskins

[Jack]

DarkLightA, could you explain the thought process behind the unhappy smiley here:

So how do you know it's CIA? It seems like this is from a role PM.

If you don't wish to comment there's only one thing to do =(

Vote: Jack

[Jack]

I said it was a conversation starter in the first post you quoted.

[Jack]

[Jack]

Mafia RULES!!!!
As Mafia- 1-0

Which game was this pwnman?

[Jack]

I'm fairly confident in bub as scum. Was waiting around to see if anyone else picked up on it. I'm the only one voting him...

[Jack]

More later hopefully when I get a chance to check back in.

I'd be interested to see what you think of bub.

[Jack]

pwnman and jason need to speak up.

[Jack]

camn, where did I attack Netopolis?

[Jack]

camn, where did I attack Netopolis?

Who ever said you did?

It was you and Ellibereth.
You came out of the gate

attacking each other

for crap-cases.

I totally bought the whole thing, and Elli went on to win.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtop ... 1c7e3e739b

You are scum, and so is Jack.

Scumteam = found.

[Jack]

I find Neto very townie.

You posted a link to a game where Neto and Elli attacked eachother as scum. But Neto attacked me, I didn't attack Neto. Many people attacked me. Did you check any of Neto's other games to see if he attacks people as town?

I don't see how you switched from a duel-bussing theory to a "one scum busses and the other distances slightly theory" without a hitch in your stride.

[Jack]

Jack

- Could be Uber-Bussing with Neto?

Recently I saw the most redic Day 1 dual-bus

You came out of the gate attacking each other for crap-cases.

...

You are scum, and so is Jack.

Scumteam = found.

camn, where did I attack Netopolis?

Who ever said you did?

Or are you intentionally missing the point that that post is all about Netopolis's meta?
The fact that you didn't play it exactly like Elli does not lessen your scumminess.

Your spat with Neto did not go unnoticed. The fact that you only

bristled and hinted at Neto being scum

does not make your

distancing

any more palatable.

Your chainsaw defense of Netopolis is noted.

Camn: Jack is uber bussing Neto = scummy
Jack: Where did I do that?
Camn: Jack is slighty distancince neto = just as scummy
Jack: I think he's town
Camn: Jack is defending Neto =scummy

Lalala.

[Jack]

Jack: I am not attacking Netopolis. He is town, see!I am not doing what Elli did in that game, really!!

Quote wall:

Reading now, but at a glance I disagree with Neto's above post very much.

Skimmed through fast once.
Like Mae and Kmd.
Don't like Neto.

Vote: Neto

Neto:
ISO 0: RV
ISO 1: Theoy crap
ISO 2: More theory crap
ISO 3: More theory crap
ISO 4: More theory crap
ISO 5: More theory crap
ISO 6: More theory crap
ISO 7: Still theory
ISO 8: You don't want Bogre lynch
ISO 9: Not content
ISO 10: Gives "light reads" without your favorite reasons. Followed by theory crap.
ISO 11: Anwsers quesion.
ISO 12: Says Net's post is useless.
ISO 13: See 11.
ISO 14: Explainging why you posted all the theory crap
ISO 15: Irrelevant
ISO 16: More theory comments...
ISO 17: Still talking about voting theory
ISO 18: Asks others for read.
ISO 19: Theory
ISO 20: Content. Kerri Net comparison
ISO 21: Not Content
ISO 22: Reexplains 20

Most of your posts aren't content. And no, all the theory crap is not content.

Ann, ongoing game.
And that Iso thing was to show how little Neto has actually done. Only 4 or so of the posts are the type of content he wants from everyone else.

Scummy as hell ^^^
Methinks Neto/Gayle are scumz.

Glork, what do you think about Neto?
Vote: Neto

If Neto's scum (he is), then it's very likely Gayle's scum with him. It's a feeling I get from Neto's posts from 179-184.

Neto's still scum.

The PBPA showed that you were full of noise.

Hi Kerri. What do you think of Neto?

I would appreciate an L-1 on Neto.

Why do you think there is a possibility of an accidental hammer?
It's been made pretty clear it would be L-1.
Please put your vote back on.

Thanks Kmd.
I still say Gayle is scum if Neto is scum.
And we should lynch Neto today.

Zach sees it.
Neto needs to die.

Hope you're okay man.
Anyway, your idea is complete BS. Moar votes on Neto please.

Why aren't you voting Neto?

Oh Hai der! Please do something pro-town this game by voting for Netopalis please! kthx.

How the did hell Net get lynched yesterday??? Can anyone here explain to me the rationale behind that lynch? The last minute shift was completely ridiculous. There was close to 0 chance of a claim....arghrah. It was just ridiculous
Neto should have died yesterday, and he's going to die today. Neto+Gayle+Yos scum. I have a town gut reads on Kerri and Haylen.

Vote: Neto

I didn't quote all of the anti-neto posts.

These are Jack today:

Lynching townies is a scum goal. So if you are trying for my lynch, should I say you are pushing towards a scum goal?

I think what you are saying here is too general. Town benefits from gaining information about player alignment. Not just any old information. Why am I as scum refusing to answer?

Applying these general paradigms (e.g. anti town is scummy) doesn't work well without a lot to flesh it out.

So you came up with this one just now. You're making the logic fit the conclusion, then. Let's say I started (for some reason) with the conclusion that you were scum. In that light, your starting the game with the questions would be an attempt to make yourself look pro town and to control discussion early. You didn't notice my answers were copy pasted because you were scum faking suspicion on Darox. Now you think I know something about the setup that you don't, and as scum you want to know what it is, so you threaten to lynch me unless I spill the beans.

If you are town surely you can see how far astray starting with a conclusion and then finding a scum motive for someones behavior can take you.

You never said anything about this, even when asked. You "couldn't imagine any protown situation" and then I was scummy because I was "hiding information and working towards a scum goal" and then you "couldn't imagine a pro town situation" again.

So, you were "hiding information" from the town when you didn't mention this, yes?

You weren't far off in your suspicion Net. Except your confirmation bias was twisting it the wrong way (but

conf bias is a town tell

so it's ok).

That first post was my version of the conversation starter. The fact that there was no CIA agent in the setup gave me an "out" once the starter had run it's course. Proof that it wasn't a scumslip, basically. That it was just made up.

***************

Summary:
Elli attack netopolis non stop
Jack said that net was townie

*******************

Net didn't come out the gate charging at Elli in that game. It was elli that did that. Net acted suspicious of him later.

camn:
In Pick Your Power II I distanced with my scumbuddy (hoopla) day one. Compare and contrast with me and netopolis please.
Have you read any games with Net as town? I asked you this before.

[Jack]

I think camn is scum.

The other game quotes are boring, but I think the point made is a good one.

[Jack]

Camn: I have seen this shit before... where was it.... hmm...
Jack: when did I attack Netopolis??
Camn: que?.
Jack: I am not attacking Netopolis. He is town, see! I am not doing what Elli did in that game, really!!
Camn: you guys are both scum.
Jack: But I can make ironic smiley faces!!

The accusation.

Which I called bs on. Elli attacked you hard from the start, I said you were giving a town tell. You weren't attacking him hard from the start, you did attack me hard. You didn't sound enthusiastic about the bussing strategy from your ISO'd endgame posts.

As I pointed out in 273, camn started with a false accusation and then waffled on it and tried to make it look better.

It starts out:

"Jack is uber bussing with neto, like I saw before"
Then I asked him where I attacked neto and he denied claiming that.
Then he says I was distancing with you. Then he has the bit of dialogue above where he thinks my claim to be "not doing what elli did" is bogus. But it is.

Now after going on about me being scum:

I am not interested in a meta-war. Jack isn't reacting as scummily as I would have predicted anyway.

[Jack]

Vote: Bub Bidderskins

I'm not answering your question for a very obvious reason.

....And what is that?

Presumably he doesn't want to tell him who not to kill.

Is your position still "meh. the bub wagon is alright" ?

[Jack]

Wait, is that the hammer???

*stare*

[Jack]

Wait, is that the hammer???

*stare*

And your pointless stare is making

what

point exactly....

Vote count is on this page. You can add 6 + 1. What do you think about the hammer? What is your opinion of it?

[Jack]

Ick.

[Jack]

Vote:camn

Her lack of bus on bubs makes more sense now.


Jason, what was with that "hammer???" post?

[Jack]

I wonder who the other mafia is besides jason and camn.

[Jack]

seems you have just latched onto Yosarian2 post above you were he says he has a bad feeling on me.

Do you really think so? Look over the two posts carefully.

[Jack]

Kill:DarkLightA

[Jack]

Who is your biggest suspect Jason? You seem to be avoiding making a statement like that so far today.

[Jack]

Right now my suspicion is still on Darklight from Yesterday.. his vote today is just off as well...

though why did you not aswer my question.

You're on a need to know basis.

you are still also yet to answer what makes you think I am the scum.....I read both those posts you mentioned and not once does it mention me as scum, your suspicion only came after someone else had mentioned me.

Both posts are timestamped 3:05

I think you're mafia because your suspicions of me and DLA sound more opportunistic than sincere, your statements about bub sounded like scum distancing themselves from the wagon and your "was that a hammer???" bit especially did. Your case on DLA is vague and you aren't really pushing it. You are accusing him of being mafia because he "just keeps saying jack is the SK", but you pushed that line of reasoning for a long time. The fact that you backed off isn't really a saving grace. That's a decent summary I suppose.

[Jack]

Vote: Bub Bidderskins

I'm not answering your question for a very obvious reason.

So, why would you not answer again....

Given the way the hammer happened I am also suspicious of Darox, Jack.

really?

The obvious reasons are that my suspects may easily change based on Bub's flip, they couldn't be lynched at that point anyway, and the big one, because I didn't want to influence the night kill.

[Jack]

Also, add on how he jumped on the Camn wagon with ease and little explination.

Vote: Camn

I think this is a good way to go today.

.

Looking back ,I am confident enough to do this.

vote Darox

hahaha

You didn't look back at all, obviously, considering his camn vote is in the same post where he explains the hammer vote that you found oh so suspicious.

unvote:camn, vote:Jason

[Jack]

It's true that DLA's obstinacy feels a bit deliberate.

[Jack]

*shakes head*

[Jack]

unvote, vote:camn

Too quiet.

[Jack]

The questioned I didn't answer was "What did this achieve?" in response to my "kill:darklightA" post.

[Jack]

Very well. I posted "kill:DLA" as a way of saying "you're annoying". Didn't care to explain that.

I find jason suspicious, but his reaction to votes on him was a bit paranoid for mafia. Camn's reaction to early votes was to quietly disappear.

[Jack]

Or maybe jason got jumpy about the Kill:dla post because he's scumbuddies with DLA.

[Jack]

Jason, read the OP for the info about the setup.

Net, I said some more stuff about camn yesterday which you can see in my ISO. Darox summarized it well too.

[Jack]

No.

[Jack]

Can someone check over jason's posts and tell me whether they think he's town being paranoid or scum trying to cram a case together on his accusers? I always like a second opinion.

[Jack]

Can someone check over jason's posts and tell me whether they think he's town being paranoid or scum trying to cram a case together on his accusers?

I always like a second opinion.

Also, why don't you check over yourself?

My problems with Jack are the posts in which he simply says "Camn is scum" without any backing and the one in which he says that we're on a "need to know basis". Yes, it's obvious the kill was a joke.

If you knew the kill was a joke, then when he was asked about it and responded "you're on a need to know basis" or whatever, wasn't it obvious that was also a joke? I don't understand.

Yeah, haven't you guys ever seen patriot games or one of those movies?

[Jack]

If the researcher is town they need to claim. Ability doesn't work past n2 anyway. I would guess it's a scum role though.

[Jack]

Jason needs to go first I think. pman and camn are right up there too. Dry fit could just be a lurker.

Darox, who did Yos "obviously investigate"?

[Jack]

Since when do we want dry-fit to go first?

[Jack]

I did, but I don't get it

[Jack]

Jason
Pman
Camn
Dry-fit
Netopalis
Darox
Jack
Fishy

this list is good enough, the other method is slow.

[Jack]

Bump.

[Jack]

Camn or Dry-fit, whoever's next online, should claim. It may be a while on Camn, since she posted that she was away.

Where did she say that? In your

scum quicktopic??

VOTE:NETOPOLIS

[Jack]

*





don't mind me, I'm just bored.

unvote

[Jack]

You can claim last if you want.

[Jack]

I think there is something of a consensus that you are scummier than me/you should claim before me.

I don't know about that, that side of the list is basically fuzzy.

[Jack]

I think fishy could play good scum.

Darox is at least implying he has a good/role related reason to want to go after fishy. Fishy pulled out the consensus line which is kind of weak.

[Jack]

I do disagree with his point about the tracker. Obviously if you have a tracking result on someone who hasn't claimed yet you don't want to claim it. And scum can just say they tracked a scum partner/vanilla townie.

Darox, why did you say it "looked like fishy's turn" when the list we'd been using had him at the bottom?

[Jack]

Stephen Breyer, vanilla justice

I don't really get neto's theory. Why are you assuming the president is involved? The opening write up explicitly states that he isn't.

[Jack]

I'm assuming it because there's no other reason for the secret service to be involved. The secret service does not protect the SCOTUS.

Does Battousai know that?

The opening flavor says something about the justices looking around and seeing no one but themselves, the attorney's, and the secret service agent. I think they would recognize the president.

[Jack]

Counard was one of the lawyers you said? And he was the veto holder.

Fishy gets major scum points for probably being the researcher. Hmm.

[Jack]

I see. Well, that destroys neto's theory too I think.

I'm very much inclined to think we have some fake vanilla claims at the top though.

[Jack]

It also says that the roles aren't based on flavor. We know the researcher is anti-town, so if it was based on flavor then fishy would be guilty. I would assume mafia is not based on any flavor either.

[Jack]

Yea, but I think we are essentially at LyoL

Wait... how the hell is Jack cop confirmed town? Have I missed something?

Again you buddy up with him as I have pointed out in the past, there is DEFF a connection between you two. And I am not sure I like it.

vote:Darox

If you're a townie jason, you're the kind of townie that makes the town LOSE

[Jack]

camn, tell me which one you'd most like to lynch

[Jack]

Yeah, I'll stick with camn and jason as scum.

Lynching a lurker in lylo based on weak wagon analysis...

[Jack]

What makes you think Camn is misguided town?

pman isn't on my scumlist.

[Jack]

fos:Darox

camn

has not

been acting like confirmation bias town. She jumped on me and neto very hard and then

abandoned it

. There is nothing that really says confirmation bias.

Why didn't you answer any of the questions about your role name?

Your play to day has not been townie

[Jack]

Darox, camn scumlist before the wagon analysis was dry-fit/jason/???. The people to choose from for the 4th sport were: jack, neto, fishy, pman, you. Do you think the wagon analysis doesn't support her position? Why would you think it was confirmation bias?

**********

ISO 4 has Darox putting out a detailed analysis, not seen since. His day 2 swap from camn (who he'd supported lynching that day, and who he'd voiced suspicion) was changed for DLA. That is scummy.

[Jack]

Fishy is basically lurking.

[Jack]

We just assumed he was because he kept pushing for fishy to go before him. It sounds like distancing to me, rereading it.

[Jack]

I'm good with a darox lynch.

[Jack]

With only two town roles, a "sanity not guaranteed cop" and a veto holder, it's quite possible there are only 2 scum.

[Jack]

btw. The cop gets probable/not probable in his results. I didn't feel like pointing out the flaws in assuming that Yos had an innocent on me before, but it's relevant to the "how many scum" and thus "bussing in lylo" question. The reason I didn't see where he breadcrumbed when you said it was obvious earlier is because I don't think he did. It would only be a probable in any case.

[Jack]

I like jason as scum, but he's been so...badly scum. I would have to check his meta.

[Jack]

I thought of that before. However, there is presumably still one townie out there who requires one less vote to lynch--and at 7 alive, 4 to lynch, if there are three mafia they could quicklynch.

[Jack]

You could argue with my 617 instead.

[Jack]

The veto holder description specifies "for the rest of the day". So yeah.

[Jack]

Anyway, I checked jason's meta and skimmed two ISO's and I'd put him over Darox. Darox had a town sounding post recently too, which I don't feel like pointing out.

I still like fishy as scum. camn I'm unsure about.

[Jack]

Darox is scum again.

Jason has been voting you for quite some time (since right after he pointed out it was lylo).

You obviously just read the part of his post where he was quoting DLA. Skimming = scummy

[Jack]

Jason is either mafia or the person the mafia were planning on getting lynched. The 2nd possibility is what scares me. But he's said basically nothing today and I don't feel confidant in anyone else.

Vote:Jason

[Jack]

unvote

hold on a minute

[Jack]

You researched him didn't you

[Jack]

If it was fishy-camn-pman then I hate you all.

[Jack]

Well, fishy is scum, and camn is scum. I like how you come right into this day all anti-fishy with the whole strategy figured out camn.

I guess p-man for the last though I'm not quite sure of it.

What I wonder is, why was fishy willing to sacrifice himself for a lynch? Did he think it would win the game? I know I thought it was over.

[Jack]

Neto played a pretty great game I think. I had doubts about twice the whole game and dismissed them.

[Jack]

btw, Fishy, if that wasn't a "I'm mafia hammering for the win" post I don't know what is. You had me convinced

The DLA lynch was our only really bad lynch. It would probably have been camn otherwise, which is harsh.

[Jack]

Unless I caught you doing your night action

[Jack]

Computer hacker--previous night tracker.

I did jason, pman and fishy (all did nothing). Oh well. Too bad pman wasn't the researcher, although it makes sense that you wouldn't have him hammer.

Your crazy bill clinton theory was great though.

[Jack]

Jack.. do you think that influenced your thoughts on Neto?

He seems genuinely convinced I was scum round one, huge confirmation bias. Probably he was just convinced that I was a great lynch.

Were you really not reading the survey results carefully neto? That's pretty funny in retrospect.

[Jack]

Your question list at the beginning.

[Jack]

(On N0, all roles acted at same time and Jack could have gotten a positive result).

damn...I thought it would do nothing, because I got the result of what they did the previous night.

[Jack]

Boo, I totally misunderstood my role. I was thinking I could find track the killers, on top of not realizing I could send in N0...