So can we settle on d3x, TonyMontana and DDD? That sounds about right.Nikanor wrote:If d3x actually is scum, I am 90% sure that DDD is his buddy, because this really looks a lot like early-game distancing.DDD wrote:I have done as the dog instructs and the dice have told me that TonyMontana is scum and Pomegranate and d3x are probably his scum partners.
Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Already got her bussing her scum partners, I'm awesome.Pomegranate wrote:So can we settle on d3x, TonyMontana and DDD? That sounds about right.Nikanor wrote:If d3x actually is scum, I am 90% sure that DDD is his buddy, because this really looks a lot like early-game distancing.DDD wrote:I have done as the dog instructs and the dice have told me that TonyMontana is scum and Pomegranate and d3x are probably his scum partners.
Vote: DDD.
Because DDD called me scum. In retrospect I'll call it OMGUS. So I voted him.Pomagranate, why didn't you join the TonyWagon?
Pomegranate wrote:So can we settle on d3x, TonyMontana and DDD? That sounds about right.Nikanor wrote:If d3x actually is scum, I am 90% sure that DDD is his buddy, because this really looks a lot like early-game distancing.DDD wrote:I have done as the dog instructs and the dice have told me that TonyMontana is scum and Pomegranate and d3x are probably his scum partners.
Vote: DDD.
Three? I recall Crayola and Tech Tree, what was the last one?Jahudo wrote:Not really. She was scum in the three finished games we've played together, but I was wrong about her the last time. And I don't really go by meta unless I think its something somebody would do in any alignment.
I personally don't find what Dramonic said unreasonable. I didn't realize that the game had begun right away.Porkens wrote:Why are you sticking up for him?dramonic wrote:He could potentially just not know the game has begun...
unvote; Vote: Dramonic
Because you attacked him for saying something entirely reasonable. But now that you point out that he only mentioned it in regards to Percy, but not Tony, I don't like it quite as much. But I still find what he said okay.Porkens wrote:Why are you defending him?Pomegranate wrote:I personally don't find what Dramonic said unreasonable. I didn't realize that the game had begun right away.Porkens wrote:Why are you sticking up for him?dramonic wrote:He could potentially just not know the game has begun...
unvote; Vote: Dramonic
Except I found it first.TonyMontana wrote:Already found one. See vote.
Not really. I think my gut says that he's scum, but I'm pretty sure that it's mostly his avatar.Jahudo wrote:@Pom: is your vote on DDD serious?
since it's mainly a random BW. Then, when asked about it by Tony, he replieddramonic wrote:Maybe we've no reason to believe you're town?
I mainly don't like this because generally, one views everyone as town, then suspects as scum, not everyone as scum, and those who redeem themselves as town. The way that dramonic says that 'we have no reason to believe you (Tony) is town, it feels like he's trying to subtly push the wagon. And the smiley makes me feel that he's trying to lighten the mood, so people will take his previous postMaybe we've no reason to believe you're scum either?
null-read.
But the way I see it is that everyone specifically has a larger chance of being town than scum.Percy wrote:Going to have to disagree with you here. Everyone else has a better chance of being scum than I do, so I try to see everyone as scum unless I have been given reason not to. Guilty until proven innocent.Pomegranate 94 wrote:I mainly don't like this because generally, one views everyone as town, then suspects as scum, not everyone as scum, and those who redeem themselves as town.
Insignificant things. What dramonic did was suspicious to me, but I see how how it wasn't really meant to be serious. But I still get bad vibes from it.Jahudo wrote:@Pomegranate:Particular about what?Pomegranate wrote:But maybe this is just me being particular about things.
I hate it when it takes me a whole paragraph to explain a thought and I'm still unsatisfied with it, and then someone else nails it in one concise sentence.VP Baltar wrote:I do think dram could have been trying to test the bouyancy of the TM wagon without serious committment.
Why did you assume that he'd get it at L-1? It was an example given by Vi, but it's unlikey that everyonegets it at L-1.Porkens wrote:I really did want to give Tony his power, but that was before dramonic danced on the fence and thereby put his neck out.
It isn't.VP Baltar wrote:Pom, explain to me why the dramonic wagon is better than Awesome wagon?
Because the way d3x mentioned something, then Nikanor says that he does it as scum. Well... also, as mentioned previously, I don't like how he decided that his own meta fit Percy.Jahudo wrote:Interesting. It looks like Nikanor is misleading the town here:d3x wrote:Also of note in that 2nd link is the fact that this exact situation played out. There were multiple promises of posts and then days would slip by before we heard from him again. Had the Mod been in attendance, prods would've been sent.Make room on the awesome wagon!Nikanor wrote:What Percy did is exactly what I have a tendency toward doing as scum: posting "Oh, I'll catch up!" and then not actually catching up until I get prodded again. If you want, I could give about five or six examples where I do this as scum.
unvote;
Vote: Nikanor
Assuming that all scum play the same way, when he's never played with Percy previously, as mentioned above.Nikanor wrote:My experience with Percy is nil. What does it matter? Do you think that somehow impacts the validity of a point?VP wrote:What is your experience with Percy? Have you played with him as town before?
[...]
Yeah, and because I do them as scum I assume that everyone does them as scum. That's how I hunt for scum. I think, "What would I do in his position, as scum and as town?" and then make a decision on his scumminess/towniness accordingly.d3x wrote:He's not saying that these are things ScumPercy does, he's saying that these are things that ScumNik does. He is using his own meta to come after another player for really shaky reasons. Afterall, I could provide the same amount of examples of TownNik doing this behavior {saying "i'll catch up" and then dissappearing until a prod is sent}.
And I don't ever recall doing this as town.
Jahudo wrote:What are you trying to show with that game? Both of those scum were posting on page 1. They didn't lurk through the random vote stage.Nikanor wrote:Ehh, no. At least I don't think so.Jahudo wrote:I think Nikanor is making too big of an issue over Percy taking ~10 hours to make his second post. Percy didn't have to be prodded again, and he gave a reason that sounded reasonable. Besides, the pace and content-level of this game should not be daunting to scum. Nikanor, do your examples include games under similar circumstances to this?
Actually, wait. This is a game that roughly matches the circumstances here, I believe. I ended up replacing out of that game, though.
[...]
Even in the random vote stage?Nikanor wrote:Ehh, that game. I tried to forget about that. Such bad memories. That is by far my worst performance as a town role to this date. I won't deny lurking in that game, but that's because I was too stupid and too busy to scumhunt like a normal person.d3x wrote:Also of note in that 2nd link is the fact that this exact situation played out. There were multiple promises of posts and then days would slip by before we heard from him again. Had the Mod been in attendance, prods would've been sent.
Anyway, the point is not that I do that exclusively as scum. The point is that I do that as scum five times more often than I do as town.
But he's not really relying on generalized behavior, from the way he put it. He's relying on personal behavior.Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:If he doesn't have personal experience with a player then how else is he supposed to determine if they're scum other than relying on generalized behaviors? We all look for generalized actions and behaviors that we associate with a higher probability of a player being scum because that's what scumhunting is.Pomegranate wrote:Assuming that all scum play the same way, when he's never played with Percy previously, as mentioned above.
I can't believe this is the wagon a plurality of the town is pushing while simultaneously enabling Tony to do nothing.
Why Percy? (OMGUS much, or something else? Explain your reasoning.)Porkens wrote:I just want to lynch someone. Nik or Dram or Percy would be fine for me.VP Baltar wrote:Let me clarify then, do you think Nik is scum or you just want a night/give Nik an ability?
Could you clarify whet you meant about opportuninsm? Was it that I jumped on a large wagon, or that I did so when asked, or something else?Nikanor wrote:Har har har. Opportunistic much?Pom wrote:It isn't.VP wrote:Pom, explain to me why the dramonic wagon is better than Awesome wagon?
Vote: Nikanor.
I just reread the case. I agree with it, but don't have time for explanation now. Coming tomorrow.
And I see that at this point Seraphim is still not posting. Promises a catch-up post, and doesn't deliver.
As I think I've explained before (unless I'm getting my games mixed up), I scumhunt by taking what I do as scum and comparing it against the play of others. Although that method probably needs to be ditched, seeing as how I've lost pretty much every game I've been town in.Pom wrote:Because the way d3x mentioned something, then Nikanor says that he does it as scum. Well... also, as mentioned previously, I don't like how he decided that his own meta fit Percy.
A couple of small thing. First of all, I like some of the points you brought against him later. Also, a lot of Nikanor's reactions to the case seemed scummy to me.Jahudo wrote:Pomegranate - Her vote took Nik to L-1, so maybe its bussing. Its fine she hopped with old reasons, because the case had already been made, but there's a question to how she viewed the wagon as it was building. Maybe scum.
@Pom: What was your reaction when you first read dramonic and d3x's case on Nikanor? What changed after your last post before coming back and voting Nik?
VP Baltar wrote:Do explain.dramonic wrote:You were drunk, let's leave it at that.
@VP: Jahudo doesn't sound like a fun wagon to hang into.
Full reply to 'hudo probably coming tonight when I have some time.
I see some of your points against him, but I have a town-ish read on him.VP Baltar wrote:Do explain.dramonic wrote:You were drunk, let's leave it at that.
@VP: Jahudo doesn't sound like a fun wagon to hang into.
Full reply to 'hudo probably coming tonight when I have some time.
VP Baltar wrote:@ Pom - why are you not voting someone yet?
I agree; look at this line from VP which explains something to me, I think:d3x wrote:Regarding the debate, I'm mostly reading it as town v town.
It seems to me that he admits that Jahudo is scumhunting (not that scum don't pretend to scumhunt, but that's beside the point).Also, people who are not Jahudo and I should also be scumhunting. Just saying.
What caused me to pause is that in the votecount on the previuos page, Percy's name in in bolded purple. Jahudo's is in black. Everyone else's is in italicized gray, including yours. So your name has the same formatting as everyone who has not claimed the ability to vote at the present. So I feel a little less clear on you. You're more confusing.Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Did I stutter?
It was previously stated that Percy and Jahudo would have to come to an agreement to secure a lynch. I'm claiming that's not the only case and that Jahudo+Me or Percy+Me can also secure a lynch.
Personally while I could still abide by a SOG lynch, I think I might have even more affinity for killing Cobalt for sheer uselessness.
So I was suspicious of Cobalt because he didn't provide any content all day. Then he shows up and just continues being useless and scummy. So I'm good for Cobalt.Percy wrote:@Pomegranate: Who should I vote, and why?
Well I don't like him from before his role went into effect. But I like how he was very clear on his role (and how it would work if he is scum). But that doesn't mean that much, so I'd put him at neutral leaning scum.VP Baltar wrote:Uh, you definitely seemed to be implying that you think he's more town because of his ability, which I agree with SOG doesn't say very much at all about alignment. Do you think he is scummy or not Pom?
The Nikanor wagon seemed reasonable, yet you opposed it. But you never explained why. If you were town and had good reasoning to appose the wagon, you would've explained it, in order to derail it. But you didn't explain your opinion. So it seems likely that you didn't have much reason. And the only person who would want to oppose the wagon, a reasonable wagon without explanation would be Nikanor's scumbuddy.semioldguy wrote:Could either or both you explain why it is scummy?d3x wrote:@sog- Did I miss a Pom case out there somewhere? The only real mention I found from you is...Would you care to give more analysis re: this, plz?semioldguy wrote:I disagree.Pomegranate wrote:Exactly. When someone is against a wagon on scum but doesn't explain why, it's scummy.
Well, I think that it's fairly obvious. I no one likes it when people think that he is scum, town and mafia alike.So he wants to explain why he's not scum. But first he need to know why people think that he is scum.semioldguy wrote:Why does or should Pomegranate feel the need to defend herself right now? (Pomegranate, feel free to address this as well)
She only has one person even mention suspicion of her and no posted case against her, why is she threatened enough by this to feel like she should be defending herself?
Okay.VP Baltar wrote:I'm pretty supportive of the Porkens wagon, but right now I'm going toVote: Pomegranateto kick this thing off right.
She's been floating under the radar far too much and when I iso'ed her I don't like her following regarding SOG/Cobalt. She only voted yesterday when I prompted her and when I did she chose the leading bandwagon on SOG to put him at L-1.
I had asked Cobalt to explain his vote on me, and he never responded. I found him scummy from that point on.Then she coasted on that for awhile until Cobalt started to look likely. Then she tries to get off of SOG by saying his 11th hour power makes him look town...which was kind of ridiculous. At that point she said Cobalt was in "worse shape". Unfortunately, she doesn't even mention him after that and continues to argue with SOG about why he's scum.
It's also not like I didn't make my own points (or build a lot on other people's points) against Nikanor.The only thing giving me pause about her is that she WAS on the Nikanor lynch and stuck with it, but looking back she did only come to the wagon at my prodding (case came after) and it was pretty popular already at that point. It would have been a mildly early bus, but definitely not an unreasonable move if she had a bit of foresight there.
For me, I got a slight town vibe from the way SOG explained his power, but not much.Herodotus wrote:No. It doesn't make any sense at all. If he didn't use his ability, he would almost certainly have been lynched. How does using an ability to prevent his lynch show that he's town? Would scum be less likely to self-preserve?Porkens wrote:For me, he would show that he was town if he used his power.
As long as he withheld his power under the declaration that it wouldn't do any good to use it, he was scum in my mind.
Does that make sense?
I don't know... I feel like I've fallen almost hopelessly behind. I already once started writing a PM to Vi to request replacement, but I felt bad, and stopped. But I think that for the sake of the rest of the game, I ought to, at this point.VP Baltar wrote:Pom, how closely do you feel you've been paying attention to this game?
