Riddle Me This! NY111 - mafia dead - Town wins!

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I very much believe Richard's claim.

[The Fonz]

Mr. Chaos, this is what I was hinting at earlier. It was always entirely possible Richard would claim power as well- indeed, if he's scum, it was certain. Do bear in mind town even-night tracker is pretty the weakest power role there is- I feel Richard is actually more likely scum for having made this claim. Also note we've seen the existence of scum power roles.

We can't just keep letting off anyone who claims power, because then we're basically guaranteeing a mislynch, because the only people who will claim vanilla are those who genuinely are.

You have basically three real options:

1) Lynch Richard anyway
2) Join me on Vasude
3) Lynch a lurker/flaker who was on mipe- Paltry, Quag, or Zoraster. My preference of these would be Zoraster since neither player in that slot has contributed. I've got reasons to think the other two town- I've never seen an actual scum state a willingness to bet money someone else is scum, and with Paltry, I've explained above.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

FFS, someone needs to fucking fix the goddamn forum issues.

[dahill1]

arhjgh

unvote

I don't think I'm brave enough to go through with a lynch on a claimed PR this early even though Fonz makes a valid point. I'll have to think about who I want to put a vote on now and it's likely not gonna be Quag, Vasude, or Paltry just based on my read of them.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Also,

unvote

, since my reasons for voting VaqsudeVa have obviously changed.

[VasudeVa]

I'm not exactly sure who to lynch now actually. I'll keep telling you guys what a bad idea it is to lynch me. I agree with Fonz' Zoraster idea though. Shanba also looks like a decent lynch. His last minute attempt to get Richard's lynch + 'a lynch is guaranteed~ vote to your heart's content!' thing is really suspicious.

[VasudeVa]

I'm not exactly sure who to lynch now actually. I'll keep telling you guys what a bad idea it is to lynch me. I agree with Fonz' Zoraster idea though. Shanba also looks like a decent lynch. His D1 last minute attempt to get Richard's lynch + 'a lynch is guaranteed~ vote to your heart's content!' thing is really suspicious.

[VasudeVa]

Vote: Shanba

Checking support. Richard's claim makes his ISO a special kind of scummy. The D2 deadline lynch kind.

"Oh look! I'm voting ksun!"(ISO 17) and then the ksun wagon picks up... "WAIT, Richard's where it's at!, look at my gigantic wall of text as to why! But I'm only voting for him because I think he's linked with inHim and Ksun! So, instead of voting for ksun, Imma counterwagon richard instead!"(ISO 28). Riight.

[PaltryExcuse]

@All: Sorry for my repeated absence. A close family member is in the hospital, and a new semester at school is starting and I pretty much have no time and less initiative to play right now. So I will request replacement.

Unvote

and

@Mod: I need replacement

[Shanba]

Mr. Chaos, this is what I was hinting at earlier. It was always entirely possible Richard would claim power as well- indeed, if he's scum, it was certain. Do bear in mind town even-night tracker is pretty the weakest power role there is- I feel Richard is actually more likely scum for having made this claim. Also note we've seen the existence of scum power roles.

We can't just keep letting off anyone who claims power, because then we're basically guaranteeing a mislynch, because the only people who will claim vanilla are those who genuinely are.

You have basically three real options:

1) Lynch Richard anyway
2) Join me on Vasude
3) Lynch a lurker/flaker who was on mipe- Paltry, Quag, or Zoraster. My preference of these would be Zoraster since neither player in that slot has contributed. I've got reasons to think the other two town- I've never seen an actual scum state a willingness to bet money someone else is scum, and with Paltry, I've explained above.

I see what you mean, it's just...

eh. I don't really want to lynch a power role at this stage in the game - especially when he has the possibility of actioning tonight in a game where that's not necessarily the case.

Well, it's not a disaster if we lynch a power role. We can still win if we lynch a power role. I'm coming around to getting back on richard, but I'm just not sure here. Indecision, blaaah.

Preview edit: Vava, how does Ricky's claim make my attack on him any worse? Are you insinuating that I knew his role and was trying to get him lynched because of that? Or are you saying that Ricky's claim clears him? Both of those are ridiculous bullshit.

Secondly, I note you dismiss my analysis as a wall of text and a claim that there's a link between ksun, ricky and inhim. That's not true. My "wall of text" was looking at voting patterns in an unusually wagon-heavy day 1, and discovering that those who had been wagonning all day (which is a scumtell) who were also more or less individually scummy (like ksun or richard) were tending to move over to the ksun wagon rather than the Richard wagon. I am almost certain that there were scum in that group I isolated (indeed, as you note, ksun was scum and he was part of that group) and that group wanted ksun lynched over richard. So I wanted to vote the guy the scumgroup didn't seem to want dead. I know how that looks scummy in retrospect, but your post there is a blatant mischaracterisation of the post itself.

In fact, I think that's probably the best piece of scumhunting I've managed all game.

[VasudeVa]

I don't buy it. Explanations are secondary to the votes.

It's pretty damning that you didn't vote for ksun when you expressed interest in his wagon earlier in the game.

[Shanba]

I don't buy it. Explanations are secondary to the votes.

It's pretty damning that you didn't vote for ksun when you expressed interest in his wagon earlier in the game.

I did vote for ksun, and I unvoted him to vote ricky.

Explanations are secondary to the votes? Bull. It's true that scum can justify just about anything - but the thing is, those explanations frequently look or sound contrived. In fact that's one of the key things that I've found scummy about Richard in this game - the explanations that he has given for his votes look like scum trying to justify a move to x or y wagon, rather than a townie who is legitimately interested in scumhunting.

Now say what you like about my vote, I think my thinking given what I knew was sound - and I think that comes through in my post, too. I know I'm biased, but when I read that thing, it comes off as town every time, and that's because it's an honest account what was going through my head. I don't think a scum could have made that up, frankly.

Your point, that I wagonned off a scum onto a player of unknown alignment, is fundamentally true. But it is weaker unless you can give an explanation of why the manner in which I did it is particularly scummy.

I note you didn't reply to my point about the Ricky's claim thing.

[Mr. Chaos]

Mr. Chaos, this is what I was hinting at earlier. It was always entirely possible Richard would claim power as well- indeed, if he's scum, it was certain. Do bear in mind town even-night tracker is pretty the weakest power role there is- I feel Richard is actually more likely scum for having made this claim. Also note we've seen the existence of scum power roles.

We can't just keep letting off anyone who claims power, because then we're basically guaranteeing a mislynch, because the only people who will claim vanilla are those who genuinely are.

You have basically three real options:

1) Lynch Richard anyway
2) Join me on Vasude
3) Lynch a lurker/flaker who was on mipe- Paltry, Quag, or Zoraster. My preference of these would be Zoraster since neither player in that slot has contributed. I've got reasons to think the other two town- I've never seen an actual scum state a willingness to bet money someone else is scum, and with Paltry, I've explained above.

Isn't that always the case, though, since we never know how a wagon's gonna turn out. I'm really getting a dumb townie read off of Vas atm, so I'm not going to join that wagon, thought I might have to at some point.

Quag has gone inactive for about a month, which worries me greatly.

Paltry's getting replaced, not sure about his alignment.

Zo's been jumping around on vote wagons for the past few days. And yes he has not been very helpful either.

Richard, not sure I want to go back to him. At first I was like "is Night Tracker even a real role?" Although, if it's actually a real role, and not that powerful, then perhaps we should, just to check..... I'll think it over, more than likely I'll have a decision by 10pm EST.

Also, Izzy, what the heck do you mean with these posts?

I very much believe Richard's claim.

Ugh, I suppose a mislynch is better than no lynch.

Explain plz.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Also, Izzy, what the heck do you mean with these posts?

I very much believe Richard's claim.

Ugh, I suppose a mislynch is better than no lynch.

Explain plz.

1) Well, considering I've been very consistent with expressing my opinion that Richard is town, and the fact that his claim is consistent with the role Korts was revealed to have upon his death (Odd Night Cop), you do the math.

2) I don't see how it's ambiguous. A mislynch is better than no lynch for the town at this stage, because at least there's wagon information and a confirmed townie to examine. When I stated that, it looked very much like Richard would be lynched because he was being stupid, which I am, and always have been convinced would lead to a mislynch.

[The Fonz]

Vote: Shanba

Checking support. Richard's claim makes his ISO a special kind of scummy. The D2 deadline lynch kind.

"Oh look! I'm voting ksun!"(ISO 17) and then the ksun wagon picks up... "WAIT, Richard's where it's at!, look at my gigantic wall of text as to why! But I'm only voting for him because I think he's linked with inHim and Ksun! So, instead of voting for ksun, Imma counterwagon richard instead!"(ISO 28). Riight.

Hey, Vava? You know when you were saying there were no interactions to look at? All these things you are talking about here had already happened at that point. Why are you only bringing this up when the possibility of your lynch has raised its head?

[The Fonz]

Vote: Shanba

Checking support. Richard's claim makes his ISO a special kind of scummy. The D2 deadline lynch kind.

"Oh look! I'm voting ksun!"(ISO 17) and then the ksun wagon picks up... "WAIT, Richard's where it's at!, look at my gigantic wall of text as to why! But I'm only voting for him because I think he's linked with inHim and Ksun! So, instead of voting for ksun, Imma counterwagon richard instead!"(ISO 28). Riight.

Hey, Vava? You know when you were saying there were no interactions to look at? All these things you are talking about here had already happened at that point. Why are you only bringing this up when the possibility of your lynch has raised its head?

[The Fonz]

Stupid forum issues.

Also, when PRECISELY is deadline?

I stand by my earlier statement that I would be astounded if none of Richard, Anon and VasudeVa is a scum busser.

[Anon]

At first glance, Id say Richard's is prob a fakeclaim. Specially for the use of TOWN in the role claim and the odd "need a vc to check if I should claim" post.

In the case Im wrong, it doesnt hurt to let him alive a couple of days to see if he can get something notable.

As I suspected, there is nothing in Fonzie's reasoning to clear Paltry since scum could very well be genuine when attacking a likely nonscum lynch like mipe. I still want to have Paltry in a hole full of blood and bad things.

Since the guy asked replacement, I need to do my homework and start finding out why I dont like Shanba. But in the meantime:

Vote: zoraster.

[The Fonz]

There's nothing to clear him, no. It's just that there's nothing that incriminating against him either. He hasn't been uberwagonny, he's been on one bad wagon which he gave every indication of believing in, and acted exactly as one would expect someone who genuinely thought mipe was scum to act. Pretty much everyone else on that wagon looks scummier.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

At first glance, Id say Richard's is prob a fakeclaim. Specially for the use of TOWN in the role claim and the odd "need a vc to check if I should claim" post.

In context of stupid newb town, rigidly sticking to "rules" like "don't claim 'till you're at L-1" is not odd. Also, I don't think the "Town" thing is relevent, since I'm guessing he just copied and pasted his role from his role PM and good mods make it clear to power roles the faction they're aligned with in their role PMs in order to avoid confusion.

[Anon]

Well, I have a case against him since day 1 that involves.., Ill just quote it instead.

First, iso 1 looks too apologetic.

Not only his early posts (iso 3,4,5,6,7,10) are full of rhetoric and forced questions to appear active. He never develops his opinions/suspicions after having the answers. His only strong spect is basically mipe which is really hard to believe for a non VI townie like him in a large game day 1.

Then in iso 14, the post that caught my attention, he comments about the mipe claim without any new input. I would expect something like his iso 15, "your claim didnt don anything to convince me, diescumdie", or something like that, specially when he is locked in mipe scum. Iso 15 is also a forced opinion since he gave his explanation when I pointed his information instead of analysis.

Last question to Shanba is one another example of a rethoric and forced question. I dont see what does paltrytown could get with asking that question.

Sometimes scumbags arent that obvious.

[Anon]

this last post was directed to fonzie.

[Anon]

At first glance, Id say Richard's is prob a fakeclaim. Specially for the use of TOWN in the role claim and the odd "need a vc to check if I should claim" post.

In context of stupid newb town, rigidly sticking to "rules" like "don't claim 'till you're at L-1" is not odd. Also, I don't think the "Town" thing is relevent, since I'm guessing he just copied and pasted his role from his role PM and good mods make it clear to power roles the faction they're aligned with in their role PMs in order to avoid confusion.

My point was that its odd when someone makes that type of posts: "Ill go check if Im at range claim or not" since you could as well decide if you should claim or not without posting that.

Also why are you assuming things and answering for Richard?

Finally, who is your top suspect now?

[The Fonz]

Yeah, Anon, your case... I don't see it. It's all bits of 'Well I don't like the tone of that post' and saying things feel 'forced' or 'contrived' when I don't get that impression at all.

[Anon]

Well, yeah, partially because we have different ways of catching our scumbags. Ive been succesfulish with this type of players that spend all day 1 asking questions to appear active and locking up to a very likely easy target.

Is there anything on your read that makes him town or you have him at neutral?