Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[Zorblag]

Good day. I know most of you but for those that I'm meeting for the first time you're welcome to call me any of Zorblag, Zorb, Zor, Z or Troll.

Let me start by saying that I'm particularly thrilled to see that people seem to be doing a good job following the format for the voting. I was expecting that people would get that wrong a fair amount but I enjoy being wrong thus far. Hopefully that means that everyone has read the rules and has a good understanding of the instant night mechanism. That along with a relatively short deadline for day one (15 days with 24 players means that we're going to have to stay focused and present) are the next two things that we want to make sure we're all on top of.

If I was one of the first posters this game I was probably going to ask questions similar to the ones that Ojanen asked; they seem a pretty valuable way to get meaningful conversation going in this game. I think that it should be reasonably valuable to start with our expectations of how likely people are to pick various teams and work there.

Personally I picked town because in general scum is fairly easy to play whereas town is a nice challenge without being as impossible as other would be likely to be (I can get killed as town and not lose for my team; I imagine that wouldn't be the case for most other roles.) I like a challenge but I also like to have a decent shot at winning when I play a game.

Parama looks like he's going to be pretty distracting unless he settles down a bit. I mostly read his play thus far as clumsy rather than scummy but I don't have any experience with him so I might have to go look at some of his other play. He also is the one person who didn't pre-in so his claim that he joined based just on player list seems pretty decent. The rest of you I expect joined in larger part because it gave you the chance to pick your alignment.

The whole cult as non-hostile other idea seems pretty odd. Given that Vi was part of the design team here it's probably more likely that if we've got non-hostile others they'll have win conditions more in line with some of the ones listed in the possible win conditions listed in Mafia Reverberation (lyncher, moychendiser (which was already mentioned), researcher, reporter and survivor would all work.) I don't think that it's worth spending too much time on the setup speculation until we've seen some flips but those are the sorts of roles that I'll be keeping in mind when watching for behavior. Cults and Serial Killers are the obvious potential hostile others but I'm sure that it would be possible to come up with others.

Parama's scum numbers are ridiculously specific but everyone should be keeping how powerful their role mind when looking for scum. If others seem to be working with the assumption that there are lots more/less scum than you are it's a pretty decent flag that their alignment might not match yours (keeping in mind that there should be some variation of power inside the town.)

For those that know Jack, is this his standard play or is the cult business an unusual distraction?

##Vote: Charter

for being the first one alphabetically by user name not to have posted yet.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@VP Baltar, yeah, I get Zorb from time to time. People like to shorten names to a single syllable it seems and sometimes that ends up with the b, sometimes it doesn't.

@UncertainKitten, the first two paragraphs (and actually I suspect you meant he second two as I don't think you'd be that likely to object to a short hello) did serve a purpose. The rules in this game are going to be pretty important. It's worth making sure that I point out what I think the important bits at the start without dwelling on them. The bit about the questions Ojanen was asking was to establish how I'm going to be treating the start of this game.

Incidentally, I didn't mention it in that paragraph but I'm pretty comfortable with Ojanen's reason for saying that she chose town. It fits what I think I know of her well. The opening questions fit what I expect from town play from her also.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

##Unvote
##Vote: popsofctown

for being the first person alphabetically by user name not to have posted yet.

I guess I'll start with DrippingGoofball. For the most part I'm fine with her opening with the suspicion about me that she has. The time she's seen me play scum I did spend most of my time in the game fiddling with game mechanics rather than looking at what was and wasn't scummy. It happened to be a game with particularly complicated mechanics (California Trilogy: City of Angles, I was in the Mighty Orbot's hydra if anyone wants to look it over) and I probably would have done a fair amount of that as town as well but she's directly seen me focus on it as scum. I can point to my first couple posts in Lynch all Liars as a game where I was town and also focused mostly on the mechanics at the start (because again they were somewhat noteworthy) which I might expect her to recall but I transitioned away from that as my main focus much more quickly there. We'll see what she has to say after I've posted some more.

I will object to calling my charter vote a random vote. Just like my popsofctown vote now it's a vote for someone who hasn't done anything at all to participate. It's how I normally vote to start a game but for this game in particular with the short deadlines and a large player pool I think that scum are going to have a good chance of coasting by on inactivity if we're not keeping pressure on them. I'd rather not have to deal with players who I don't have a good pool of posts to make reads on around towards the end of the game. Accuse me of lurker hunting if you like but I fear it's likely to be an issue this game and I plan to do what I can to avoid that.

I could quibble about other things in her analysis but for the most part I think it'll be easier just to play more for now. If they're still an issue in a couple days (i.e. she or others are raising them as concerns) I'll talk about them then.

Well, that's not quite true. I will say that if I wasn't considering Jack as at least non-town then I wouldn't bother asking about him. Of the other categories off hand I'd guess that scum is a bit more likely than other just because of how the attention is drawn.

As far as who would make good lynches or not for now, here are some thoughts:

Regardless of her alignment DrippingGoofball isn't a good lynch for today. She's a catalyst. She gets reactions from people that are going to be useful later in the game (look at how many people focus on what she's had to say; that's pretty typical.) I expect VP Baltar in particular to dislike this stance given what I had to say about Albert B. Rampage in Open 193 where I was scum but hopefully he's got more experience with DrippingGoofball than he did with Albert B. Rampage and he can more easily see the point that I'm driving at here. Down the line we'll be able to look at the pattern of attention that DrippingGoofball is giving as a means to determine whether or not she's scum. I also think I know some things that she's unlikly to do if she is scum and I'll speak up if I see any of them. For now I think she's easily a net gain to scum hunting.

VP Baltar and Debonair Danny DiPietro are thus far both playing more or less within their standard town games. I see them garnering some suspicion but I wouldn't be interested in voting for them.

I think Ojanen is probably town as I've already said. To answer her question, from what I recall of her play as town and scum (and I've been in one game for each) the questions get to the heart of the matter in a way similar to what it seems like you've done in town. It's largely gut and if you're around for long I'll go back and take a closer look at the play from the other games to confirm that but it was enough for me for the start. Also, I'm 11-7 as town and 8-1 as scum if that helps you decide whether you think I'm likely to be trying to use them as a setup tool.

Parama doesn't seem to have said anything of interest past reactions to what people are saying about him since I posted last. It's still probably just a bit more likely to be clumsy town than scum but there's not really much to make me want to stop him from being lynched.

xvart seems to be getting caught up in unimportant details without seeing the explanations that make sense (the quick topic is an example of this.) The overall play looks like finding things to take time to talk about in order to look town. I'd be fine lynching him.

Jack seems to be doing enough looking about to get a solid read on later. It's interesting to note at this point that how he's dealt with the cult bit has made it a more interesting tool to use for how others are reacting to it than what he said. Regardless of alignment I like that play well enough.

I don't understand how Phate isn't clear on DrippingGoofball's stance on me and the only other content is a case that I don't buy on VP Baltar. He'd be a fine lynch.

Any of Cobalt, d3x, Jazzmyn or popsofctown would be fine lynches as of right now. When they provide more content to work with I'll form more in depth opinions. I believe that popsofctown is the only player not to have posted yet and that he also confirmed via PM after the game had started. It seems he should have had something to say publicly.

I'd like more from Ellibereth but for the start I've got no reason to believe that DrippingGoofball wouldn't have good meta on him on the matter of his likely choice from their hydra experience. For that alone he's not a great lynch for now.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Looks like Shotty to the Body got left off my list of fine lynches on inactivity grounds. Toss him in there as I wouldn't want him to feel neglected.

@DrippingGoofball, out of curiosity how much do you think I generally attempt to simulate cheerfulness as scum compared to how much I try as town? From the talking with you I've done in general I'd sort of expect you to think it's the sort of thing I'd do as either alignment.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Ellibereth, posting like that's going to make me feel much better about my "believe DrippingGoofball's meta for now" stance on you.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@VP Baltar, that's certainly a better bottle of wine than the one that I finished tonight but I started out with a 6 pack of cider so I won't be jealous. What was it that made you go from being willing to lynch me without any other information today to this defending that you seem to be doing now? DrippingGoofball was pushing her case hard after just two posts from me (and it is interesting that she was browsing the forum this evening but didn't choose to post anything) but as I said a couple posts ago the basis of her case is pretty easy to see from my point of view. On the other hand I don't see a compelling reason for you to be sticking up for me now.

@charter, it's interesting that your suspicion of me came apparently came right after Post 221 and that you're saying it's based on active lurking. Just so that I'm clear what you don't like, what is it that you think active lurking is? I don't mind it at all when people suspect me but that's an interesting reason for you to use.

@popsofctown, you've been on the site multiple times today and yet you still don't seem to have found time to say anything here. We'd very much appreciate any thoughts you'd like to share about this game.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@VP Baltar, I do remember that from the end of the last game, yeah. And when you opened this game saying you were fine lynching me it didn't warrant any comment at all as I assumed that you thought it was a funny continuation of that. Your conversation with Debonair Danny DiPietro did some to make me think that you were being more serious but it still wasn't worth a comment. As for the sticking up for me, it was more than just asking DrippnigGoofball for a better explanation (your tone with that bit was, as you say was somewhat neutral); you also listed charter's probably scum read on me as one that was wrong. I failed to get that across in my previous post.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@VP Baltar, how much have you played with charter? This seems about what I expect from an opening for him.

As for reacting, what reaction would have been worth giving? If you really did think that I'm the sort of player who would choose scum or other I could deny that (which in fact, I sort of did when I answered Ojanen's question with my opening post) but it doesn't really bother me if that's the position you want to start with. I find it an opinion you could believably have given what you've seen of my play. Arguing against people playing in a natural way isn't going to help us find scum.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

I'll wait till popsofctown delivers on that promise before moving my vote. In the meantime I'll do some pretty blatant water testing to see if it'll be worth my while joining farside22 on a Phate wagon if we get a post that was worth waiting for.

@Debonair Danny DiPietro, what did you think of Nicodemus's Post 164? You don't like his Jack vote from the start of the game (I'm indifferent; at that point it's a reason to vote and he didn't do any pushing to make it an issue particularly) and I don't disagree with what you've got to say about his most recent post but I'm not sure why you're pushing him over, say, Phate just now.

@DrippingGoofball, hopefully you had a lovely anniversary. Congratulations on 25 years. Remind me to tell you why I think you've got that impression of my play later. Or rather remind me to tell you what's actually motivating play that could give you that perception. Why is it that Phate makes your neutral category? I'd think that he'd be a decent candidate for one of the lower down ones.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Shotty to the Body, an easy way off that part of my fine lynch list is simply to post when you get the chance. If finals have kept you busy then you'll be able to make it up after their over.

@popsofctown, you know it's funny. Back when I was deciding what alignment to pick I thought that I might say I used exactly that same method (only with higher non-town numbers) to pick my alignment if I decided to go for scum or other. I never actually considered using the method though. You make it tempting to leave my vote but right now I'm slightly more interested in who will follow the lead to Phate (who's also a fine lynch.)

Unvote
Vote: Phate

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Silly Troll.

##Unvote
##Vote: Phate

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Debonair Danny DiPietro, there were a couple reasons that I went with Phate as the lurker that was the most appealing to see if there was interest in lynching. The one that I think is most likely to appeal to you is that unlike most (all perhaps) of the others on the lurker list he's got his second post where he tries to look like he's following the game by asking a question that should have an obvious answer about DrippingGoofball's opinion. Given your reaction to Nicodemus's careless read of what DrippingGoofball said I thought it might appeal to you.

The others which I don't think are that likely to sway you are convenience (he was the lurker with a vote other than mine at the time) and because I wanted to see what DrippingGoofball would do when I brought him up as out of place for the rest of her reads.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Jack, that is a lot of reasons, yeah. I actually had slightly different versions of the last two paragraphs of Post 269 typed up before I noticed that I was asking both DrippingGoofball and Debonair Danny DiPietro questions about Phate. Looking at the vote count led me to add the first paragraph and change the overall tone to what it ended up being. I didn't have a particular reaction that I expected from DrippingGoofball; what I got was satisfying though.

@Phate, so the only things in the game that were worth going over right away since you were here last were the analysis of DrippingGoofball's post on me (which was here before your previous post) and to come to the conclusion that it casts doubt on her alignment but that she wouldn't be a good lynch? I'd be thrown off by being defended and having my own view on DrippingGoofball's usefulness in the game being copied (with the added bit where you're saying that you see suspicious behavior) on their own, but I'd certainly think that there would be other things as worth commenting on that have happened since.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@DrippingGoofball, what do you think of so many people going with the Phate wagon? Common sense prevailing or scum piling on a bus?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@DrippingGoofball, scum or other. If I were non-town and worse at it than I actually would be I would have made that post about my decision process.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@DrippingGoofball, right now he's a great target for any town night kills if they exist. My early policy-type vote for him didn't get any support even when I provided marginal support even though his second to last post drew plenty of suspicion. At this point that's probably the easiest approach. Should he be alive day two he'll deserve plenty of attention.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

So no one at all complained that Phate told farside22 that he wasn't interested in providing a list of reads because it helps scum to know who town thinks is town and then he proceeded to spend his next couple posts deciding why he thinks Jack is town. He also at that point hadn't come up with an reasons for thinking that someone was scummy in a way that he wanted to vote for them (unless you'll take his first post on VP Baltar as doing that; I'm inclined to call it on the light side.

In fact, rather than complaining, people seemed to be moving towards thinking that he was town based on those actions. I found it pretty confusing.

He's redeemed a bit by the fact that he did manage to come up with an actual suspect before I got around to pointing this out.

Right now I'm waiting to hear again from Jack on the whole Gammagooey issue but I imagine that it's pretty likely that the hypothetical nature of the question was designed to draw responses from people rather than indicate an actual scummy action in a quick topic.

While I'm waiting,

##Unvote
##Vote: popsofctown

If people are going to fall out of love with a Phate lynch and a wagon is starting on popsofctown I'm pretty happy moving back there. He'd be a fine target for a vig or whatnot but if people want to lynch him instead I'll support that as well.

@Ellibereth and DrippingGoofball, how much experience do you have with Fishythefish? He's certainly a numbers kind of guy (you can take a look at what he's done in the Numbers Thread for an example.) The objection he's raising here is pretty much the sort of objection I'd expect him to raise.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Gammagooey, you're right in that giving an analysis Jack doesn't contradict the unwillingness to give a full list of reads. On the other hand, a contradiction there wasn't what bothered me. I'm bothered by the fact that the reason he gave for not wanting to give a full list of reads was that it helps scum for town to give their town reads and that the first read he then proceeded to give was a town read. He does start his post by saying that he thought Jack was scummy when he started the read and then moved to town (though the move seems to have been because Jack largely kept doing the things he had been doing at the start) but, really I was expecting a first case that involved who he thought was scum when he posted it.

As for the case on RedCoyote, it doesn't do much to convince me that he's hit scum but I'm happy enough with it as insight into what Phate is likely to find worth posting about in the future. Maybe a 4 as a case and a 6 as a post?

@VP Baltar, good luck getting through the week then. I'll look forward to the next game we're in together.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Hmmm, that's not a lot of kills for the night and the couple hours that Zoraster mentioned for night actions seems to have gone by quickly so probably there shouldn't have been that many missed night actions due to people missing the surprise twilight deadline. That and the flips thus far make me think that rather than not many people picked town (as Fishythefish suggests) it's more likely that not many people picked scum.

For what it's worth I mostly agree with Jack's take on popsofctown. I don't see the reaction to DrippingGoofball's fake day vig as being any sort of indication that he's town and it's kind of surprising to me that others do. I'll go into that in a bit more detail this afternoon I think.

@Gammagooey, I was disappointed by people falling out of love with the Phate wagon. That was due primarily to the timing. They were letting him off the hook before he'd done anything in the way of finding someone he actually thought was scum so I find it premature. A ranking of 6 in terms of the post just means that I found it useful for working out alignments (in this case for looking at for the future mostly); I would have given any post that pinned down an alignment with certainty (Phate's or someone else's) a 10. Like I said, the case itself was around a 4 for me.

If I had been made king and the day had ended yesterday when you were asking I'd have picked popsofctown over Phate as the lynch pretty easily. It still thought the wagon going on Phate could have done some more before it floundered. For what it's worth I did get something out of it though; I like farside22's actions and timing a fair amount.

@Fishythefish, your claim brings up a couple questions.

1. What counts as a claim for your point system? Could you have fake claimed something else and gotten the survivor points? That's a pretty nebulous thing to hang point values on and is easily the part of your role I find least believable.

2. Do you learn if the person you transmit your information to is town?

3. Am I reading right that you get no points (positive or negative) for transmitting to those of other alignments?

4. Have you used your track/transmit ability yet?

@Chronopie, why didn't you vote for Fishythefish first thing day two if you knew he wasn't town? Why didn't you vote for him when you revealed that you knew he wasn't town?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Jack, was that out of seven?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

I had been thinking that if Fishythefish had been able to tell if the person he transmitted to was town (via points or what-not) then he might have been worth keeping around for an extra day to verify popsofctown's alignment (or someone else) and then killing tomorrow. Apparently he's not useful for that though. Also, apparently he's leaving out multiple details if his current claim is true. I'm not sure how many actions I expect him to have but if he had one for last night and thinks that he can accomplish more today before getting lynched it's certainly more than I would have guessed.

I wouldn't be hugely shocked if he was telling some of the truth with his claim but sadly, given how xvart flipped, it seems unlikely that we'll know much until after the game is over about what can do. Perhaps I'm wrong and there's something about how xvart was killed that's kept that information on the lesser side but I don't see how talked to death would be likely to make that the case.

If people want to give him time I doubt there's much chance that it'll do that much harm but I don't think that he's sharing enough to be worth keeping around for the time he's asking for.

##Vote: Fishythefish

Anything else that I've got to say about the game should keep just fine till tomorrow.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Oh, and for anyone who particularly cares, my vote should have put Fishythefish at L-1 if I can count correctly.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Chronopie, how often do you not check the results of your night actions before you start posting and voting in a thread on a given day? That's not behavior I expect of anyone offhand. Even if that is what you did you didn't change your vote to Fishythefish. You said he wasn't town with no change in a vote. Your new vote didn't come until after DrippingGoofball had cast her vote. Why did you wait that extra time?

Color me unimpressed by your explanation.

Do you really know that Fishythefish isn't town because you're in a non-town faction with him perhaps? I'm not sure why you'd out him like you did but at least it would fit the rest of your behavior better.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@LlamaFluff, are you saying that you think the answers he gave (or, rather failed to give as he still hasn't said why he didn't vote for Fishythefish) strike you as true? I don't think I'm willing to accept that just yet.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@LlamaFluff, I'm still trying to work out what I think of Chronopie which is why I'm asking the questions and applying some pressure. I've had very little experience as a power role myself. I think that I've gotten a total of one PM saying what my results are from the night in all my games here but I know that was the first thing that I was interested in when that game day started. I have trouble believing that someone expecting such a PM wouldn't be checking that as soon as possible.

I'm also not quite sure what a motive cop is, but we've had one of those from the town already and it seems pretty similar to what Chronopie would be claiming to be. I'm not overly sure that I think that town should have too many more investigative roles. If we're willing to believe that farside22 is some sort of town tracker (and I think she's more likely to be town than Chronopie is at this point) then that's getting to be quite a few out already.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@LlamaFluff, do me a favor and let me know what you think the chances of farside22 and RedCoyote being on a non-town faction together are. I've just had paranoia kick in.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@LlamaFluff, how much would you say that you're scum hunting and how much would you say you're hunting for non-town at this point?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, did you have any sort of fake claim? A truthful answer to this is more likely to hurt the other factions than your own (or at least the one that's not the Legislature I suppose.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, is there a reason that you haven't claimed your name (by which I assume you should mean Flavor Title) up till now? I'd also be interested in your motive unless there's a reason not to share it.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, are the point values that you're looking at orders of magnitude different for the different conditions or are they all within a factor of 10 of eachother? Should we expect the factions to care hugely about finding scum/town/other to score points?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, do you have anything other than the assumption that the game is balanced to make you think that the other factions have the same basic conditions for their points? If you had the option would you reveal the members of the other factions?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

If at this point we as a town want to lynch someone other than Fishythefish then I might have an alternate plan for him that would tie up a few things. I'm going to take it that most people believe his claim about both the one shot tracker/transmitter and the points. If I'm right that there aren't a lot of scum in this game then we don't actually want Fishythefish sticking around; I think he's a fair amount more likely to be on town lynches than scum lynches which hurts his faction in terms of points so I suspect that he'll be a bit more likely than town to simply try to stay off lynches as a whole which isn't something we really want.

On the other hand, we've got a claimed PGO. It seems to me that it might be acceptable to those who still want the Fishythefish lynch that we have him target Gammagooey with a track and whoever he thinks is most likely to be town with his transmit. His death should verify Gammagooey's claim (or not) and we'll potentially get tracking information (at least whether or not he targets anyone) on Gammagooey that I imagine trackers would be somewhat reluctant to get on their own. Whoever receives the transmission doesn't even have to worry about sharing it as they're not revealing anything about their role. Fishythefish should find that a much better deal than just getting lynched today so it should be an all around win for town and his claimed non-hostile other faction. It'll also give us a fair amount more useful information to work with.

Past that I'm now the center of a fair amount of attention. I'll give a bit of a defense in my next post but first I'll share some thoughts on other players and ask a few questions.

@Plum, should I take it that you've got no problems with Chronopie's story about what happened at the start of day two?

@Gammagooey, do you have any objections to the plan I've proposed for Fishythefish?

Re: Chronopie. I still hate his story about what happened at the start of the day. If he's telling the truth I don't like that he's posting before he looked at his investigation result and I don't like that didn't vote for Fishythefish when he got a non-town result until after another vote. On the other hand I now have to acknowledge that he completely missed the fact that Fishythefish revealed that he had used some sort of night action after telling me that he hadn't used his one shot tracker/transmitter in Post 649 when he made Posts 694 and 696 but that he's later seen it and made it a driving point. His attention to detail probably is worse than I expect it to be.

Re: Phate. Now that he's asked to replace out I'm a bit more comfortable with his behavior than I was before. As I tried to explain to Gammagooey earlier it's the fact that people left his wagon and started to write him off before he'd gotten around to doing anything particularly pro-town that was most troubling to me. I didn't at all have him cleared from being scum when we had our conversation which Gammagooey seems to think is the case but his post on RedCoyote was a step in the right direction. When other steps failed to follow it was a flag but I'll accept replacing out as a sufficient explanation.

Re: popsofctown. What reactions do people think he would have given to the fake day vig if he were scum? If that's what's causing people to clear him I just don't see it at all. On the other hand, we're now supposed to believe that if he made his choice randomly and got scum he would have given some other reasons for his selection because he knew that the story about choosing randomly would be scummy. Instead, he picked randomly in a game where he had compete control over what alignment he was going to get to play, got what would be his last choice and is now playing an alignment he hates and then explained making that choice in a way that he knew was going to be scummy when he had an alternative ready should have have come up scum.

Further, it doesn't benefit him at all as he seems to be saying it does to pick his role randomly if we're only playing this game once. If we were playing multiple times with this sort of setup that might enter into the picture but for a one time thing the only thing that benefits him is being able to make others think that he chose his role randomly.

Re: Jack. This won't make me more popular than I am in anyone's eyes, probably least of all his, but Jack is probably the player who's doing the most to help the town in my opinion. It's like he's figured out how to get the usefulness of a DrippingGoofball/Albert B. Rampage type player into the game from himself but then he doesn't have to fully commit to that playstyle. He's getting informative reactions and he's looking at the information that's likely to be helpful as we go. The town would do well to listen to him.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Plum, I think that if Fishythefish was given the choice between being lynched today and getting the chance to transmit a track on Gammagooey to someone he thought was town he'd probably take it. Like I said, I'm not sure that it actually behooves him to try to be on lynches as I'd guess he's got a better chance of hitting town than scum which hurts him so I'm not overly convinced he'd mind dying in a way that helped the town as a town win does benefit him so long as he's telling the truth.

I think that the non-hostile other claim plan is interesting. Doubly so because Fishythefish says that he doesn't have a safe claim which might provide extra incentive. Knowing who was claiming to fall into that category and having some control over them in exchange for letting them work in the open might be an interesting deal to offer. I'm not sure how likely they would be to take the town up on it though.

@DrippingGoofball, as I said, I'll give something of a defense shortly. I'm pausing in writing it to respond to these posts.

@Jack, d3x is on the list of players that I need to go back and look at again. I probably won't get to him tonight but I should have time tomorrow. Nicodemus and Shotty to the Body definitely fall on that list as well.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Plum, right now I'm still voting for Fishythefish. Lynching him does seem wiser to me regardless of whether I trust him or not (and I asked him a lot of questions to which I got mostly pretty good answers so I think he probably is telling most of the truth.) What I see right now is a town that doesn't share that opinion so I'm offering another potential option. If Fishythefish doesn't do what we want him to today then there'll be even more reason to lynch him tomorrow. He'd get an extra day to stay alive if he wanted but that would let the town know that he's really not trying to help them. If he benefits from a town win like he says then there's no way he'd want us to waste a day lynching him rather than hunting for scum.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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DrippingGoofball is right about a couple of things. I'm not an exceptional scum hunter. I don't think that I've ever claimed to be and I don't expect that I ever will. I summed up my self opinion publicly not too long ago here. I'm don't think I'm a terrible scum hunter but you shouldn't expect me to bring down an entire scum team even when I'm at the top of my game. That certainly doesn't mean that I don't try but I'm aware of some of my strengths and weaknesses.

I also don't particularly like working with others. In addition to scum being easy to play (I'm not sure why people think that I'm lying about that but that's probably a discussion to be had elsewhere) it involves working directly with others. I don't have that issue as town. As town I'm largely working on my own to figure out what's going on and (possibly eventually) persuade others to work with me. I'm not sure why DrippingGoofball doesn't think that I'd like that. It's a challenge but it's possible.

If I could have explicitly picked Serial Killer then I would have had to give it serious consideration. I'd know that I was in control of my own fate for the most part and have some power to get things done. Other in general though is really pretty likely to be pretty hard for me to win. If I don't have a kill to shape the game around me in beneficial ways then I'm way too likely to get killed. When I was making my choice I had to assume that my victory condition as other would be pretty likely to involve my needing to stay alive (which isn't true as town) which makes it much less appealing.

People will either believe that or not but I really did go with the choice that should be both fun and challenging while also possible.

Let's assume you don't believe it though. Let's assume that you think that I probably did pick other. I might not be the best scum hunter ever but I hope you'll accept am pretty good at figuring out how to use game mechanics. As almost any role for other I've got every reason to try to use them in a way that helps the town at this point. I'm under a fair amount of pressure so people will be watching me closely. If you think that I'm equally helpful to the town no matter what my alignment is then give me a chance to do that helping.

The idea that I'm not readable and you just lynch me no matter what my alignment is after you think that I've reached the limit of how much I can help is pretty ridiculous. I'm aware of a number of tells that people should be able to use to figure out my alignment fairly consistently. Thus far others haven't noticed most of them it seems.

Actually, on that note, like I said earlier, there is a reason that you think I've been been looking more active than normal (you seem to be taking it as being a happy camper.) It's because I've been trying to do that. The last two games I've been involved with as scum (Open 193 and Mafia Reverberation (as Mighty Orbots)) I played with a number of the players in this game. I think it's pretty likely that I developed a bit of a meta for being inactive until I needed to jump into action right at the end when I'm scum in those games. It certainly behooves me to play against what I think people think my scum meta is (regardless of my alignment.)

As pure WIFOM that shouldn't really carry any weight, I know how to stay out of the spotlight in games. I've been prying at things that don't make me popular in this game when I don't have any need to at all. If I were scum or other I'd have every reason to find more universally accepted things to post about. As town I've got every reason to dig into the things that really don't strike me as quite right both because it's important to figure them out and it doesn't really matter if people care about it as town doesn't need me around to win.

DrippngGoofball is calling what I've been doing fake scum hunting. I clearly disagree. I've been pointing out the play that I don't think should be coming from town and trying to gather information about the environment that we're actually in and how to use it for a town win.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Gammagooey, my not liking people leaving of the Phate wagon when they did was my suspicion for the time. It's the sort of thing that will be much more useful to look at as the game goes along in terms of overall voting patterns; at that moment I'd said my bit. The one exception is farside22 who I did specifically like the reactions from which was useful immediately.

As for popsofctown's reaction I don't think that you're remembering it quite right. He didn't start by saying that we should watch out for DrippingGoofball because she did it without asking for a claim. That came 6 minutes later. He originally assumed that it went through and that DrippingGoofball was town and he could even see why she'd done it and then claimed for no good reason. Further he'd give some reads but he didn't have any (there's no talk about looking for them) and that we should probably keep pressuring xvart, a nice popular wagon.

It's a reaction that does nothing at all to help the town and doesn't show any of the surprise that I'd expect if he really believed it was true. I think it was fake. At the very least I'd expect some suspicion about whether it had really happened rather than absolute acceptance.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Fishythefish, I'm not sure what you think the problem is here.

If you're telling the truth why would scum bother roleblocking an action that's going to eliminate someone who would be working against them otherwise? Scum shouldn't care whether your faction wins the point game or not should they? I'm very skeptical that you'd be a prime candidate for a roleblock.

Further, I've checked with the mod and confirmed that one shot abilities, if roleblocked, can be used again unless there's some specific mechanic that prevents it. Do you know of some such mechanic in this case? For your statement to make sense it must be a factional ability (otherwise, if you got lynched today your faction wouldn't be able to use it) so even if for whatever reason you did get roleblocked your partner(s) would still be able to use it later.

@Debonair Danny DiPietro and farside22, you seem to misunderstand the point of my plan. If the town isn't willing to lynch Fishythefish today then we should be doing something like telling him to target a PGO tonight whether or not he's going to do it. If he does then great, issue dealt with. If he doesn't then the rest of the town has lost their reason to trust him and should drop their unwillingness to lynch. Of course, if he's refusing to go along with the plan without giving objections that make sense then we should be able to go back to lynching him today.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Fishythefish, you think that you'd be a more attractive target than either a tracker or a town-cop? Both of those strike me as much more likely targets for a scum roleblocker than an third party faction who's not going to be doing them any direct harm (unless Gammagooey is scum or some such thing.) Unless scum think they're going to be short on mislynches (which would strike me as surprising in a more normal setup, let alone the one we're probably working with here) I don't see why you think that's a real danger.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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Also, I think that both Jack and Shotty to the Body have now cast their most recent votes without the ## and as such they won't be counted.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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It looks like I'll be busy tonight but I should be about tomorrow morning to answer some questions and let you know what's changed in my thoughts. Until then I'll say that if I claim anything today it'll be to share my role and anything I might or might not know beyond that before I get lynched, because I think I know something that would help the town to know immediately or because we're doing a mass claim of some sort (full, role, flavor or branch I'd guess for this game). Pretty much the same conditions I'd claim something under during any game. Claims should be done right and shouldn't be done piecemeal and I'd think that Ellibereth's been in a game with me at the right spot to know that. The same goes for some others here though I pretty much expect DrippingGoofball to point to her signature now given how she's playing.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Debonair Danny DiPietro, the main purpose of the plan is to demonstrate to the town that Fishythefish shouldn't be trusted to to act in the town's best interest. If we're not lynching him today then without something like that I don't see any reason to think that we'll be doing it later either and I don't think that we want to have someone who we know isn't town and hasn't been completely upfront with us around indefinitely.

@Fishythefish, it would surprise me a fair amount if scum roleblocked you over investigative roles; the mislynch you're talking about is too easy to find other places but being investigated in some way is something that scum certainly want to avoid. On the other hand, I do believe that you'd be worried about your competing factions roleblocking you if you thought there was any reason to think they might have that ability. You don't think that do you?

I've also got another theory as to why might prefer to be lynched and waste the town's action for a day. If you were surprised to learn that your action last night targeted RedCoyote it seems pretty safe to assume that you don't know who it targeted yourself. You also don't seem to want to target Gammagooey with anything tonight (or else you could target him with some other ability while your partner(s) took care of the transmission.) I'm wondering if you don't have one shot weak track that you don't learn anything about and then a one shot transmit to be used later to try to get that to someone else.

@LlamaFluff, at this point I'm pretty convinced that Chronopie isn't likely to be on the same faction as Fishythefish. I don't think that he'd focus in the way that he did; I'm not at all convinced that an other faction like the one it looks like we're working with can afford to bus like that if there are other options (which there should be.) I also don't think that he was just taking a guess that Fishythefish was other as the claim he's made since would be too dangerous to try to keep faking on his own. He could be getting the information from someone else in a quick topic which would explain the delay but that seems overly complicated to be worth doing and the window is pretty small for that to have happened given the timing of the posts at the start of the day. At this point I do believe that he's probably telling the truth about the town/not-town cop ability.

I'm not convinced that it particularly means that he needs to be town though. I'm not at all sure that scum wouldn't want to reveal that information at the time he did (again, there weren't a lot of kills night one so scum would probably have reason to show that they're helping the town by sharing when he did as they shouldn't be overly concerned about it leading to a night kill from an other group and would be more interested in having their day game get the cred.) I can also think of some other win conditions where it might be helpful though there is a bit more danger there.

He certainly could be town; it's the most likely way for this to play out as of now I think. On the other hand, I don't feel at all bad about having asked about the details of his claim. I'm not just going to blindly accept what people say; this is a game of mafia after all.

@Ellibereth, I recall being unhappy with how your hammered because of claim related issues and I recall being unhappy with how SFG told everyone exactly what she was expecting them to do when she made her claim in LyLo but I don't recall us particularly disagreeing.

@Jack, DrippingGoofball might expect me to talk my way out of a lynch today. Why would you expect that of me? I did get a chance to look at d3x; he strikes me as unhelpful more than anything else and a good part of that is probably just his overall style (of which I've seen a bit previously.) He'd be a decent lynch but I'd prefer Nicodeum or popsofctown less and would say that Shotty to the Body is at about the same level.

@StrangerCoug, out of curiosity, what was it about the posts that DrippingGoofball linked that convinced you that I'm a hostile other and that I'm a better lynch than, say Nicodemus today? It seems that you agree with her that I'm not mafia. Was it the part where she accused me of ignoring her analysis just after I'd made a post saying I'd be giving a defense shortly? Was it the part where she tried to use my not denying that I'm a Serial Killer as a point against me right after I'd explained why it was I picked town for my alignment? Is it that you agree with her that I've been coasting and fake scum hunting all game?

@DrippingGoofball, I'm still trying to figure out why it is that you're kitchen sinking me here. I've seen you after me before (in Tofu Mafia but there you were doing more to try to figure things out; you wavered at times. Here your latching onto anything that might be used to attack me. The idea that I think there are too many power roles is an example (I was pretty clearly saying that we've got a lot of investigative role claims out already and that we probably shouldn't assume that they're all town) as well as all the things that I asked StrangerCoug about. Your choice of terms clearly shows that you do keep in mind the conversations that we've had in the past (curmudgeonly, drunk on the cider, etc.) but you're sticking hard to a read of my play that isn't likely, doesn't really fit the pattern of kills we've had and which simply isn't true in this case. I find it puzzling.

@Gammagooey, just to confirm here, the main source of your gut hate of me just now is that I helped get a wagon started on Phate and then was dissapointed when it faded away sooner than I thought that it should but that I didn't follow up on the voters who left it? I sort of think that your experience with me in Mafia Reverberation might be leaving you with an inherently distrustful take on me that could be coloring your opinion. Do you think that's at all likely to be the case?

@everyone, if we're not interested in lynching Fishythefish today then I could probably get behind lynching Nicodemus. The timing and strength of the reaction to Chronopie's "Fishythefish isn't town" does look pretty bad and in general he hasn't been doing anything that makes me think he's trying to help the town. I sort of think that people should be complaining at least as much about Shotty to the Body as they are about farside22 at this point. His stance seems pretty similar, he's just been less around. Actually less around is a great description of him in general. I'm also pretty much of the opinion that in addition to the rest of the complaints I've leveled against him till now I'm ready to add coasting and fake scum-hunting to what I dislike about popsofctown. It's something that DrippingGoofball says that I've been doing but I think that popsofctown is a much better example of it.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Fishythefish, I guess you know how many abilities of various sorts your faction has and can use that to gague how likely another would be to have a roleblock; lacking that information I'm inclined to think that if you're judicial and don't have that sort of ability 1 in 3 is probably high. If you're executive and lack that sort of ability I could see it going to judicial as flavor and having it be more of a concern.

My last sentence was saying I think you might have already performed your track and still have a transmit to perform. I can think of a reason you might want to lie about that but my guessing here isn't all that helpful. Overall I know that you were willing to change your story about abilities as we went to match the facts that were brought up so I don't know that you've given me a great reason to think that you wouldn't have lied about it. I'm trying to work with the information you have given to figure out what's going on. You listed one ability at the start and having that split to a two night deal would take care of why you were doing some sort of targeting last night and potentially why you didn't want to say what it was as it would be changing what you've said you can do rather than just adding things to it.

I don't really like that you're continuing to find things that you're willing to share about your role that you didn't want to previously but I'm a bit predisposed not to trust you fully at this point anyhow so that's not too shocking.

@Gammagooey, I'm actually more interesting in figuring out exactly what it is that you (and others) are not liking now rather than trying to get you to change your mind. I'm pretty happy with what I did regarding my vote for Phate and then popsofctown. Using it to add pressure to a wagon on Phate before he'd done anything that I found useful and then switching to popsofctown after that pressure was starting to dissipate (granted, before I thought it should have) for what I found scummy from him is something that I'd be willing to do at the start of most days. I'm also pretty satisfied with how I'm working with Fishythefish thus far today, there's still information to be had from him via conversation or a lynch (or both.) If you don't like those it it won't offend me overly, disagreeing with me certainly isn't that uncommon. I do like your answer about Mafia Reverberation. It's honest in a way it doesn't need to be.

@StrangerCoug, actually, you probably should want to kill a serial killer first; taking them out gets rid of their night kill. Lynching a member of the mafia usually won't do that and it leaves more connections to find for later if you get them second.

So if it's my coasting and fake scum hunting that I've been doing all game that has you convinced that I am a serial killer (or some sort of hostile other at least) I wonder if you could explain what you mean by coasting and why you think I've been doing it more than others. I'd also like to see a couple of what you think are my most egregious instances of fake scum hunting. It's a bit surprising that you're voting for me before you're familiar with the case on Nicodemus given that you made sure to ask about mine before deciding but I assume given your answer that you did take the time to look over at least my play in isolation before making your decision.

@Plum, you said earlier that you could dissect up a case on me. I wonder if you'd be willing to do that still? Right now I think that you're voting for me because DrippingGoofball says she's got a strong meta read and because you didn't like how I treated Chronopie after he claimed explicitly that he had a non-town result on Fishythefish. As with Gammagooey I disagree that what you seem to not like should come across as scummy but I can live with disagreeing. You're clearly not alone in that take on my actions in any case. Mostly I just want to see fully why you think that I'm a great candidate for a lynch today for you.

@everyone, both farside22 and charter are playing the way that I'd expect them to as town in terms of their reaction to Fishythefish's claim. I expect them to dig in on that sort of idea and hold onto it with vigor. I've been thinking about DrippingGoofball and at this point I'm pretty sure that she shouldn't be a member of any faction with a night kill. She does know from some experience that I'm not a particularly easy lynch to get to happen (I've been lynched 3 times total; two of my first games here and once when I drove my own wagon due to a special game mechanic) and I think that she'd be more likely just to get rid of me by night killing me if she thought that I was going to be thorn in her side for some reason.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Oh, and just because I expect those who think that DrippingGoofball is obv-town at this point not to like the last bit of that last post of mine I do think that she could pretty easily be town and have a strong hunch she's going with about me or be using one of a couple other tactics I can think of that would result in this course of action. I'm simply looking at what alignments can probably be ruled out from her play.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Fishythefish, I actually said that I don't like that you're finding more things that you are willing to share, not things that you're not willing to share. The new information that all of your abilities contribute to points based on who you target is specifically what I had in mind. I'd sort of expect that if one of the other two factions had a roleblock the same thing would apply to them. Unless they gained or lost points for targeting others with it it'd actually be an advantage to the third faction if they were to target you with it. Doing so would stop either of your two factions from getting points that night but leave a competitor without that restriction. There's also some question as to how many times it could be used but you seem to think that keeping that information from us is useful for some reason.

@StrangerCoug, by not scumhunting on a consistent basis (for coasting) do you mean that you think that I'm not posting enough? Or that most of my posts don't look like scum hunting to you? If either of those are what you're trying to say I'll again invite you to compare what I've been doing here to any of d3x, Nicodeums, popsofctown or Shotty to the Body (and Phate really, though with him replacing out I'm more comfortable than I used to be.) It would probably have made sense for you to give as your original answer that you were piggybacking off DrippingGoofball but so be it. The posts that you're asking about are pretty much the same things that Gammagooey is taking issue with so to a large degree you can take a look at my responses to him to see why I made them but I'll give a quick rundown of what happened.

At the start of the game I was voting for those who hadn't posted yet to vote for as I typically do. popsofctown was the last player to post and my vote was on when he did (to say that he'd give us content soon.) While I was waiting for that I took a look over what Phate had posted (as well as some others) and decided that his apparent uncertainty about what DrippingGoofball was clearly doing was potentially worth pursuing. I asked a few questions to see if people would want to start a wagon on him and they did. popsofctown then did post content which was scummy. I went along with the Phate vote for added pressure because I did still want more from him but if there hadn't been a wagon building on him at the time I would have stayed with popsofctown. Phate then made a couple posts that I didn't think should have alleviated the pressure that was on him as much as it did but his wagon started to fade anyhow. I pointed out that I didn't think there was reason for others to unvote yet but, since the pressure wasn't building any more I switched my vote back to popsofctown as the scummier player.

My take on Fishythefish's alignment at the time was that he was fairly likely to be non-hostile other like he was claiming but that it was clear that he wasn't town and that he wasn't fully sharing his information and at the time he was saying that he had further things he could do that day (which, again, he wasn't interested in sharing the nature of.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Ellibereth, we shouldn't be having more people claim than we're going to be lynching claim today. Piecemeal claiming just gives scum more information for using their night actions.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Ellibereth, if I claim today it won't be to prevent my death. If I claim it will be because it lets me share any information I might have with the town before I die, because I feel that my any information I might have will be helpful to share now rather than later or because we're doing some form of mass claim.

If I made the sort of claim you seem to think I'd give today it would be because the town had decided that I was the right lynch to make and we had someone ready to hammer.

@DrippingGoofball, I do sometimes tunnel when I've picked up what I think is a scum tell as town. I certainly did it to you in Tofu mafia when you were talking about possible scum pairings. I don't go out of my way to try to do it but I'm a bit surprised that you don't think I'm doing it to popsofctown this game given that you seem to be convinced he's town based on his reaction to your fake vig.

@Chronopie, what motivation would I have to give Fishythefish answers to use for later? How likely do you think it is that's I'm a Serial Killer at this point? How likely do you think it is that I'm mafia?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Chronopie, actually, just to be clear here, are you currently voting for me because you think I might be working with Fishythefish in some way? You don't seem to have said anything else about me that I can see.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Chornopie, so you think that I'm likely to be allied with Fishythefish in some way and passing him information in the game thread. That possibility makes me a better spot for your vote than Fishythefish who you know to be other despite the fact that I'd have no reason to pass information this blatantly if I'm in his faction (when I could do it by quick topic,) and he's apparently competing against the other factions that we know of.

Once again you can color me unimpressed on that front.

The other option is that you think I'm a Serial Killer and somehow would have a reason to help Fishythefish with answers to give to questions despite the fact that I've been voting for him pretty much all day. I'm not sure why that interpretation makes any more sense.

What is it about DrippingGoofball's meta case that you find compelling? Could you summarize it for me so that I can see what you think she's been saying?

I assume that you've been reading my conversation with Ellibereth about claiming. I'll not your desire to have me claim but it's not going to change the conditions in which I'd do it.

How likely do you think that Nicodemus is to be other or mafia at this point? Since you didn't answer about how likely you think I am to be mafia should I assume that you don't think that it's particularly likely?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Chronopie, what do you think the chances are that I'm town at this point? Would it be higher or lower than my chances of being mafia?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Chronopie, that's an interesting order. It seems that you have a fair amount of faith in DrippingGoofball's meta and she's saying that I'm not playing like scum or town. There should be more town in the game than scum in general (and by a fair amount for this game is my current guess.) Is there something other than DrippingGoofball's meta that you're working with to come to that conclusion?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Chronopie, we had at least enough people pick town for Ojanen to be a vanilla townie (one of our two town flips thus far.) I'm also not asking why you think I'm less likely to be town than not-town, I'm specifically asking why you think I'm less likely to be town than mafia. Unless specifically think that the mafia outnumber the town here you should have some reason to think that I've been acting more like mafia than town.

For what it's worth, DrippingGoofball's meta reason for me not picking mafia (not wanting to work with others outside the game thread) is better than her meta reason for me not picking town (that scum hunting isn't my strongest skill) as I enjoy challenging myself and trying to improve on the things that I know I'm not great at.

In any case, I'm off now to help someone get ready for a calculus test. It feels like you (and this isn't just you but you're the one answering my questions just now) are voting for me because you haven't figured out who you think is most likely to be scum and it's easier to go along with the push DrippingGoofball is making. Others have expressed reasons outside that to find me suspicious; I don't particularly agree that they should make me seem suspicious but at least I know they're working things out for themselves. It's your vote to cast and if you do think that lynching me today is the best chance the town has to get rid of scum then in then end I can live with that (well, outside the game; I'm not sure I'll be doing that much more living here.) I do want you to mean it if you're keeping it there though.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@DrippingGoofball, it shows up in my newbie games more often. People don't particularly like being simply told that they're wrong but I often need to get them to realize some point they're missing. Circling in to a point via questions and then asking them to take time to consider what's happened is one of my approaches. Here I'm probably being a bit more sharp about it if anything.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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So here's what I've got for people on my wagon at this point.

I think that Gammagooey has done the best in terms of making it clear what he doesn't like about my play. LlamaFluff seems to think that I'm a good lynch at least in part because I expressed suspicion that Chronopie didn't need to be town after he'd given his non-town result on Fishythefish. Plum mentioned that at as well but I'm waiting to see what she has in the way of a case when she puts it together.

DrippingGoofball, who thinks that I'm not mafia so far as I can tell and whose meta on me involves seeing me play a handful of games as a vanilla townie and one game as scum has decided that I'm playing this one differently. At least in part because she thinks I was enjoying it and that I would enjoy playing a Serial Killer she's apparently convinced that that's the only possible interpretation of my play. I don't think that it's particularly good reasoning (especially as I know that she's wrong) but she's holding to it tightly and I don't really think that it's outside her normal play.

All of those people have reasons of their own that I can at least point to for being on my wagon now.

StrangerCoug says that he's following DrippingGoofball's lead and when I pushed he gave some indication that he might have found the same points that Gammagooey has raised about my play to be an issue and doesn't think that I'm scumhunting but I can't tell that he's actually tried to figure out what he thinks of the other potential lynches for today. He's said that he doesn't understand the case on Nicodemus (just like apparently he couldn't understand the case on me before DrippingGoofball pointed out four posts she had made which should not have been particularly compelling taken in context.)

Chronopie originally voted for me (with no mention of me before that) for a stated reason that within a couple posts he acknowledged didn't make sense (that I was helping Fishythefish in some way.) After that he switched to believing DrippingGoofball's meta because he's heard that she's a good scum hunter. Again, I'm not sure how closely he's examined the other major suspects of the day.

Ellibereth seems to be convined that I'm a Serial Killer given his lists. I'm not actually sure why he thinks that I'm scummy. I'm not sure why he's switched from Nicodemus to me now, why he switched to Nicodemus from me earlier or why he was voting for me earlier today.

I have no idea why farside22 switched her vote to me from Fishythefish. As far as I can tell she hasn't expressed any suspicion of me prior to her vote (maybe I'm missing it somewhere) and the closest thing that I can think of is that she might think Nicodemus didn't pick scum because she's seen him play it badly in the past.

Animorphrev seems to have bought into the Zorblag is a Serial Killer line without any hesitation. I don't know if he's looked at my play to decide that or the reasons that DrippingGoofball has given or if he just went with it because people were saying it alot. I have no idea what he's read of the game at this point.

Gammagooey is probably town. I'm inclined to say the same for LlamaFluff.
DrippingGoofball shouldn't be in a faction with night kills.
Plum probably isn't in DrippingGoofball's faction unless they're both town (which is pretty possible.) Ellibereth might be (but I don't have strong read on him any which way really.)
StrangerCoug, Chronopie and Animorpherv are the three most likely to be opportunistic scum or other on the wagon. I'd guess probably 2 of the 3 of them are.
I still think that farside22 is more likely to be town than anything else but I'd really like her to talk about why she's made that most recent vote change.

d3x staying away from the wagon is odd. Actually so is popsofctown. I'd guess they're trying to stay off a mislynch so that they might look better. Nicodemus has indeed dissapeared under pressure.

@Those that think I'm a Serial Killer, why does DrippingGoofball's case convince you that in particular rather than just some non-vanilla role? She's only ever seen my play vanilla townie or goon in the past. Do you think that the mafia has a night kill this game? If so why do you think that we've got a Serial Killer at all? We had two kills last night; xvart was a major wagon and I'd really guess that he was a vigilante kill. Ojanen was almost certainly a scum kill but she's the only one. Do you think that other kills were blocked or something?

I do agree that it's worth trying to lynch a Serial Killer but I don't see why you think that there must be one here or why I should be one if we've got one.

I'll ask you, if you're voting for me because you think that I'm a Serial Killer believing DrippingGoofball's meta take to actually look at the case being presented. I'm not a Serial Killer and I really think that there's scummier play out there than mine that's not hard to find.

My top guesses for mafia or hostile other right now are, in order, popsofctown, Nicodemus, d3x and Shotty to the Body but I'm going to be pragmatic. The Fishythefish lynch clearly won't be happening and I remain perplexed that town didn't express more interest in trying to get him to target Gammagooey tonight to test that Paranoid Gun Owner claim and eliminate an other without needing to use a lynch for it. Even if it couldn't work out that's an arrangment that town should have been really thrilled to potentially have happen.

##Unvote
##Vote: Nicodemus

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@animorpherv1, for the sake of the town, regardless of what happens today you're going to need to change how your dealing with the third party factions from here on out. If we've got neutral non-hostile point factions in the game (and we probably do) town can't ever let their presence stop scum hunting. Either you need to eliminate them via lynches or vigilante kills (and with the numbers and current information we think we're dealing with that's probably impractical) or you've got to be willing to let them help you hunt scum when you think that you've identified them. You can't avoid lynching scum early because you're worried about one of the factions getting points; if the town does that then those neutral factions are essentially hurting the town and should be eliminated. The town, on the other hand, doesn't care about points at all; we can simply lynch who we think is scummiest each day. If we're sure that someone should be part of one of the three branches then we simply have one less target to consider. I would have liked to lynch Fishythefish today just to get his flip and confirm that it gives the same information that xvart's did (the roleblocker issue that came up makes things a bit hazey and we're almost certainly in good enough shape now to probably lynch a non-hostile third party if we get enough value out of it) but since we're not doing that we should simply be looking for our best shot to hit scum.

Aside from that, I'd like to hear why it is that you think that I'm a Serial Killer. Have you looked over my play this game or are you just assuming it's true because a number of people were saying it? Have you looked at Nicodemus's play as the other potential wagon?

@DrippingGoofball, do you think that Nicodemus is town at this point? His wagon is largely based on pressure that was coming from others before he largely disappeared. Apparently you're going with role-fishing as a neutral tell here (have you said that elsewhere as well? I don't recall seeing it from you previously) but what about the rest of his play?

@Ellibereth, why do you think I'm a Serial Killer? Why do you think there's a Serial Killer in the game? If you think that Nicodemus is scum why did you switch your vote back over to me?

@farside22, why are you voting for me at this point? Is it because you
think I'm likely to be scum in general or are you going with the Serial Killer in particular argument?

@LlamaFluff, could you do me a favor and recap why you think I'm the best lynch of the day at this point? Perhaps if others see your case those that haven't decided one way or another will be persuaded. I think that my reaction to Chronopie is a (big?) part of it but I'd love to see a quick summary of exactly what I've done that makes me worse than people who have been hanging out on the sidelines for the most part.

@Plum, hopefully you'll have a chance to give that case on me sometime soon. I don't need it to be hugely pretty, mostly I want to see what your major points are. You seem awfully set on my lynch today so I assume you must have some things in mind.

@popsofctown, I take your most recent response to mean that you have a bad gut read on me. I don't seem to see you mentioning anything about that earlier (the other comment I see about me was asking DrippingGoofball why you should think I'm scum because my first post didn't seem lynchable to you.) When did this bad gut read come about? Does that mean that you've got a good or neutral read on Nicodemus at this point?

@UncertainKitten, I can see potentially keeping an outted Serial Killer around early in the game if you think that the town will be able to control their kills but in general I don't think that the possibility of cross kills from them to mafia is a good enough reason to keep them around if you find one. More kills do give more information but even if a Serial Killer is trying to hit scum they're probably more likely to hit town early in the game (well, or other factions in this game in particular perhaps.) I think I'd almost always take one less night kill and more time to sort out who the mafia were if I had the chance to kill someone I was sure was a Serial Killer early.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@animorphev1, for that to count you'll need to put a ## in front of the unvote. What I'd love to see from you right now is your analysis about why both Nicodemus and I are or aren't scummy based on reading through our posts.

@UncertainKitten, well, clearly I think you shouldn't be sure that I am a Serial Killer but if you were I don't think that the arguments you were giving for not lynching one were that compelling. I'll be a bit happier if you're essentially willing to treat potential Serial Killers as potential scum this game and lynch them just like you would if you thought you had found a member of the mafia (which is what you seem to be doing with Nicodemus.)

@StrangerCoug, can I take it that you've looked over Nicodemus's play at this point and you think he's doing more to make you think that he's not town than I am? It was never clear to me that you'd done that previously.

@farside22, does it make an difference to you that I was one of the few players who agreed with you that Fishythefish should be lynched today? I didn't switch my vote until after you did. I certainly agree that the sheeping is irritating; I'm doing my best to get people to examine their reasoning at this point.

I grant that you're frustrated at the town but I'd really like it if you actually cast a vote on the one of Nicodemus and I that you think is actually scummier. I think that in the long run you'd rather lynch scum today than not even if we're not going to lynch Fishythefish.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@farside22, do you think that Nicodemus plays town any better than he plays scum offhand? Is he playing this game like he played the one where you've seen him play as scum?

You'll hopefully excuse me not loving the stance you're taking here given the situation. I'd much rather have you voting for someone you think is scum now rather than viewing this as a chance to teach people a lesson about blindly following DrippingGoofball. They'll get that eventually anyhow whether I get lynched today or not.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@farside22, I'd appreciate that, thanks.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@farside22, thanks for taking some time to look at that. I guess I think that 5 votes for 5 different players over the course of 10 posts feels like it's all over the place to me and it does feel like he's hesitating as a reaction to the information about Fishythefish but perhaps you're taking those into account.

Do you have any sort of best guess for who scum is at this point? I know your feelings about Fishythefish but who else would be a good lynch if he got day-vigged right now and you needed to hit scum today?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@farside22, actually, while I'm asking questions, given what you know of her views on scum hunting what do you think of DrippingGoofball's focus on someone she thinks is a Serial Killer at the start of the game?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@farside22, OK, and one last question. How likely do you think it is that I'm town at this point? If you're getting more town reads than scum reads should I take it that I'm not falling into that town read category for you?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@farside22, I think that I've been doing more than just talking logic in circles so far this game. I think that I've been giving opinions about players based on their actions pretty much from the get go. Do you not have an impression of me based on those (others seem to have come to conclusions)? Are you really trying to say that it's not worth trying to get a read on me based on what you've seen of my play?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@farside22, all of my games can be found at my Wiki organized by my alignment. I've never had an alignment other than town or mafia so I can't help with the Serial Killer but there are plenty examples of my town and scum play.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Gammagooey, shouldn't you still want to hear from charter as well on that list?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Gammagooey, I guess I don't see why it's less impressive than d3x's or RedCoyote's (who you do list) at this point. Do you think that a vote for Fishythefish that's not going to lead to a lynch is better than a vote for someone else that isn't going to lead to a lynch? Do you think that d3x is a good vote at this point? I know you were talking with d3x a bit but I'm not sure that you think he's likely to be scum at this point.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Gammagooey, none of the players I asked about are voting for Jack. Do you think that charter will be less useless than RedCoyote or d3x? Or are you trying to say Fishythefish instead of Jack? You've lost me.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@RedCoyote, on a practical note, if Fishythefish isn't lynched today (which it seems that he won't be) who would your next choice be? A principled stance is one thing but at some point one needs to acknowledge the situation.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Chronopie, you seem to have been looking the thread over but not posting just now. As far as I can tell you're in the group that's voting for me just because DrippingGoofball thinks that I'm a Serial Killer so I'm particularly interested in hearing your thoughts about what people have been saying.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Now that I'm at L-1 and someone is ready to hammer it is time for me to claim.

I'm a neutral sniper vigilante. My flavor is Fringe Tea Party Activist. Each day I can take a shot at someone. If they're a member of the government they'll get sniped. I win when I have no more targets and I leave the game. If I target someone who's not a member of the government then the secret service learns that my target was not the sniper. I've taken that to mean that the secret service is likely in the game as a player or group of players that need to stop me from succeeding or protect members of the government of some such thing but there's also some chance that it's a red herring.

Day one I took a shot at Debonair Danny DiPietro right at the start as much to see if anyone would react to it as anything else.

Day two I took a shot at popsofctown right at the start because there's really no way that he's town. Had I waited just a bit I would have seen that Fishythefish was a better target but so be it.

I do have a fake claim (vanilla townie, regular college student) which I would have used in a mass claim situation. It's very interesting that Fishythefish doesn't have one.

Here are some last thoughts just because I can give them.

I'll be really pretty surprised if DrippingGoofball is town this game. As town I don't think that she'd put this much effort into trying to get someone she doesn't think is mafia but might be a Serial Killer killed this early. I've also never seen her be this unwavering as town; she makes poor assumptions from time to time but she's tunneled to a ridiculous extent this game.

farside22's reason for voting me is among the most frustrating that I've ever seen. Town absolutely shouldn't not care who they're voting for if they don't get their first choice. That she'd vote for one of the people who was supporting the wagon she wanted makes it even more ridiculous. I could see farside22 doing that as town given what I know of her but I'm positive that she should know that DrippingGoofball shouldn't be this focused on a Serial Killer like this as town. It wouldn't shock me if the two of them made up some branch of the government.

Plum's calls for the non-hostile others to claim are odd. It would have been particularly helpful to me if people had followed her lead but I'm not sure why she would think that they would want to. It's dissapointing that she never got around to giving that list of reasons that she suspects me.

Ellibereth and StrangerCoug round out my list of people voting for me for reasons that simply don't look like they're taking the game into account and who I think are probably opportunistic more than anything. Well, and animorpherv1 gets some special mention here as I don't think he's really got any idea what's going on. He even gets extra credit for unvoting in the wrong format and then promptly disappearing.

I'm not sure why LlamaFluff thinks that I didn't vote till post 9 in isolation. I pretty clearly voted with my first post unless he means a vote for a reason other than lack of participation but early in the game with short deadlines I'm going to view lack of participation as enough of a reason to keep a vote there. I also think that finding me suspicious for not instantly believing Chronopie's claim fully is a bit absurd but at least he's giving reasons for it.

That lack of participation from a number of players is still a huge problem this game; I'd recommend that you try to do something about it but you don't seem to be inclined to move in that way. That I'm getting lynched as someone who has been relatively active and in some large part because you're following DrippingGoofball's ill-founded reasoning is a poor omen indeed.

I played that game largely how I would have as town; it behooves me to hunt scum here as, even more than Fishythefish claims to be, I'm a natural ally to the town. In any case, I'll leave the rest of the game to you to sort through now. Good luck to everyone; I've got no more dogs in this fight. I'm unimpressed by the reasoning that I've seen here on many fronts but I'm unimpressed by many things both in and out of games of mafia.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Well, I would have been taking care of Fishythefish (and ideally the other members of the three branches) as the game went along regardless of whether I made this claim or not. Now that I've made it though there's a pretty good chance that the secret service will be taking me out before I've had a chance to. Lynching Nicodemus still gives you better chance of hitting scum today (i.e. some chance) but you're almost certainly going to need to find another way to weed out the rest of the government.

Claiming earlier would have had that same effect which is one of the reasons that I wasn't willing to claim until you were actually ready to hammer me. It would have been much better for me (and town) if I had been able to reason with the people casting votes for me. This game I wasn't.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

If Ellibereth has a reason to believe my claim and sees why it's helpful to keep me around I'm a bit unclear as to why he wouldn't remove his vote. I fully expect Fishythefish at least to want to hammer me now.

Thinking it over, the only reason I can think of offhand for someone to be able to verify my claim would be if they were getting information from the secret service about who I'd tried to snipe.

Are you the secret service Ellibereth? If so what is your win condition?

Deadline is tomorrow morning at 11:00 AM EDT if memory serves (so on the order of 21 hours from now.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

farside22, if you want that to count you'll need to put the ## in front of the votes.

In case anyone's wondering this and animorpherv1's recent failure to unvote are exactly the sort of cases that I was prepared to warn everyone about in the first post I made this game. At the time people were being better about it though.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@popsofctown, I've got no night actions at all. My kills are day kills if they happen (and thus far neither have; fortunately for you you're not a member of the government.) Trackers aren't going to see me targeting anyone. It'd be a waste of their action but it doesn't overly bother me should they choose to track me.

It was Chronopie who claimed the town/not-town investigation last night. If you really are working for the town then it'd probably be nice if you tried to find scum at this point. You should be more interested in that than getting your alignment verified I would think.

Also, for those keeping track I believe that's L-2 on Nicodemus now (and I think I'm at L-3.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

And that's almost certainly L-1. No one gets to claim they didn't know it was a hammer if they vote for Nicodemus now.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@DrippingGoofball, I'm perfectly happy to answer questions but I think I'd like to have you answer mine first.

@DrippingGoofball, do you think that Nicodemus is town at this point? His wagon is largely based on pressure that was coming from others before he largely disappeared. Apparently you're going with role-fishing as a neutral tell here (have you said that elsewhere as well? I don't recall seeing it from you previously) but what about the rest of his play?

It would have been better to have you answer that before we got to this position but you were more interested in mindlessly pursuing my lynch.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@DrippingGoofball, no, there's certainly mindlessness there. You guessed that I picked other. That's surprising. Then you assumed that I must be a serial killer. Not just a killing role. You took your meta based on just having seen me play vanilla townie and mafia goon in the past and turned that into a certainty that I must be a serial killer and proceeded to spend most of the game trying to sell that. In addition you're doing this while convinced that I'm not mafia.

A town DrippingGoofball would examine my actions looking for both reasons to believe to confirm or dispute her claim. A town DrippingGoofball would look at the state of the game to determine if there was reason to think she had it right. A town DrippingGoofball would be at least as interested in lynching scum today as a serial killer. And most importantly a town DrippingGoofball lets her attention range over the vast multitude of players in a game and picks out things that make people scummy for a mix of good and bad reasons. You're not doing those things here. You were simply looking for reasons to add to the "case" you were making against me. That's mindlessly pushing my lynch.

If you don't think that Nicodemus is scum then why not try to push a lynch on someone else who you do think is scum now. We've still got time. Why so eager to hammer? You shouldn't want

As for Debonair Danny DiPietro, I picked him because he's almost impossible for me to persuade if I need to. He plays a rigid game which is fine as he's right enough to pull it off but he was someone who I would be better off having dead than suspicious of me down the line. Day one I was unlikely to have a good idea who to pick so I figured he'd make as good an early target as any.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

EBWOP: I forgot to end that second to last paragraph.

You shouldn't want a mislynch here if you're town.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@DrippingGoofball, I said near the start of the game that you're useful to town is that you're a catalyst. When you're town I can count on you to be all over the place pushing buttons but you just haven't been doing that this game. If anything, since people were following your serial killer theory you got to sit back and just take a shot or two at me as we went. For you you've been positively behind the scenes this game. The DrippingGoofball that I know wouldn't do that as town. I could easily see you spending a fair amount of energy trying to sell a given result but you'd be pursuing other things as well (people can take a look at any of your town games to see that sort of behavior.)

@Fishythefish, I submitted the order for the snipe attempt today well before I posted in the thread. It was before you'd said anything that day, I was (and remain) fairly sure that popsofctown wasn't town and you were developing a fine wagon and looked likely to be a potential lynch (whereas people seemed to buy the popsofctown vanilla townie claim for whatever reason.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, it did occur to me, yes. I chose between shooting at you or shooting at popsofctown. I could have waited for a claim but, like I said, I was as sure as I needed to be that popsofctown wasn't scum, you were likely to be lynched regardless and I don't really care how members of the government die (if you were one I could just be part of a wagon that lynched you and blend in well enough that way and you'd still be out of the game which is all I need) and I think that people assume that I take my time making decisions. By firing fast I helped throw anyone who does know me off my trail by a little bit. Incidentally, my first choice for today would have been to target myself for a snipe and have the secret service learn (incorrectly) that I wasn't the sniper but sadly that wasn't an option.

I need to outlive all the members of the government but it's going to take some time to do that regardless. popsofctown was going to be harder to rid of in the long run if he was government so he made the better shot right at the start of the day.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Actually, my delay in posting was at least in part so that the secret service would be thrown off my trail by the timing of the shot and when I was about.

I took my role to be at least as much a matter of staying hidden at the time as being sure that I killed members of the government quickly. In most games I can stick around without getting too high or low on lists of suspicion better than I've managed in this one and I viewed my role more as that of a survivor with a puzzle to figure out rather than primarily being about the killing.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, I'm not actually sold on my living till tomorrow at this point; now that I'm out in the open I assume that the secret service will be gunning for me if they've got the ability to.

I actually also think that it's probably Ellibereth as I don't know how (other than the information about who my targets would have been) he'd think he could confirm me. I'll be interested to hear from him after he's talked to Zoraster.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@LlamaFluff, xvart was a part of the Legislature, one of the three brances of the US government. Fishythefish claims to be part of another branch.

I don't actually have any reason to think that members of the government couldn't be members of the town or mafia based on my role but I can confirm that I'm just gunning for members of the Executive, Judiciary and Legislature. That's how official I need them to be for my win condition.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Interesting. If I'm alive tomorrow we'll definitely have something to talk about. If I'm not then you'll get to talk to others I'd guess.

In that case, to the point factions out there, if you do have a night kill remember that I have to know who you are before I can kill you (or the town has to want me to try kill you which I'll be going along with from here on out.) Given the distributions I'm probably more likely to take out your competitors than someone from your faction (unless Fishythefish has been coy about his ability to kill.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

So you guys have a fair amount of control over how I use my day vig today. If you want me to shoot Fishythefish that's fine with me; it should give me a chance to demonstrate that I can snipe members of the government. If you'd like me to aim at someone else before or after people have made claims of whatever sort that's fine with me as well.

I suspect Ellibereth will have a case to be made for something as he seems to not want me to shoot Fishythefish just yet. Now's his chance to talk.

Fishythefish is also welcome to say whatever he'd like to at this time.

I wasn't expecting to be alive at this point. I need to get some food and then spend some quality time on another game. I'll be vaguely around if people have questions but at this point you should decide who you want me to be taking a shot at.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@UncertainKitten, actually I wouldn't be shocked if the redirect was a one way thing. It could be that it just switches two players for targeting purposes but I know that Vi, who help design this setup, used it to redirect anything targeting one player to another player without it reciprocating in Mafia Reverberation.

That still wouldn't explain why a track on Plum seems to have worked though.

And it could be a redirect that takes your actions to someone other than the one you targeted as well, yes, that would handle the situation more fully.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

The only ability that I've got is to take shots during the day that only kill if they hit someone in one of the three branches. If you targeted me then someone else cause the kill to go elsewhere. I could potentially see LlamaFluff redirecting kills from me to Jack though. Certainly more easily than I could see him redirecting kills from Plum to Jack. I should have been a tempting target for a number of people.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Or anyone that I've said I'm suspicious of who would be vulnerable to my kills. Or anyone who thought the town would want me to kill them today. If I can safely claim without people wanting to kill me then I'm somewhat suspicious of what's going on with the setup.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@DrippingGoofball, if no one other than those that I'm hunting care whether I'm alive or not then there's no great reason other than simply fear on my part for not claiming my role right at the start of the game. Sure I have to find people who are a bit more likely to be hiding from me but they've already got a survivor incentive built in to their point system if Fishythefish is to be believed. It's not like they would have been coming out anyhow. It is possible that I was given a safe claim just to make me less likely to make my role public early (and in fact I've speculated about that to Zoraster) but I'm still working with the assumption that there really should be something else in the game holding me back.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Chronopie, I know that the members of the government would be happy to lynch me but they couldn't have pushed the issue for exactly the reason that you just gave. If someone's pushing for my lynch in a way that I don't think makes sense I can just try to shoot them. If I claimed right at the start then I might have had people be a bit reluctant to believe my claim at first but I have to imagine that I could have stayed alive long enough to have someone flip government. Once that happens (especially if I'm sniping them and get my flavor confirmed) I'm essentially safe from town from then on out. The mafia shouldn't have any reason to want to kill me offhand as I can't touch them unless they're also government (which I don't think they would be.)

Again, it could just be the fear of the secret service (reinforced by a safe claim for me) that was supposed to hold me in check but definitely feels like there should be something else.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@DrippingGoofball, did your transmission tell you that Jack was vanilla townie or just vanilla?

@Shotty to the Body, did your faction send any transmissions last night? If so, can you corroborate anyone's story today? Are you the only member left in your faction? Can you confirm that you've got the same sort of point system that Fishythefish says he does? If so are the same things worth points for your faction?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Now there's a post that makes me nervous. Mind you, not in a way that I can do anything about.

@Shotty to the Body, based on what you've just said do you think that if information about the scoreboards got pooled between the three groups you could confirm the alignments of everyone that received transmissions? If you're really all working for the town like you all seem to imply you are then that should be pretty useful information to pass along; you've already all done your actions of that sort it would seem so I guess you'd know better than I whether there's a reason for the groups to hold back.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

EBWOP: And by the post that makes me nervous I mean the Secret Service bit from Shotty to the Body.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, now that I'm outed my shoot early strategy is done with. I won't be winning today anyhow so I'm all for you three coming up with what you want to tell us before I take any actions. I might not be officially town but I've got no reason to work against their interests by acting as a loose canon at this point. Plus, I'm particularly interested to see if any of you try to generate numbers that show that someone must be lying about them. More information should help me in the long run just like it should help town.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@DrippingGoofball, yeah, that makes sense. I hadn't gotten the transmitted rolecop claim yet and a transmitted cop result was much more powerful than the weak tracker/weak watcher transmissions. The role cop part perhaps mitigates that somewhat (though it still seems a bit strong.) Do you have anything to declare about your alignment at this time? It sounds like the point factions think they'll be able to tell us what it is in a bit; any startling reveal probably sounds better if it comes from you ahead of time.

@Plum, would you like to confirm that it was Chronopie that you got your transmission about? I think that you left that vague. Same question to you about alignment reveal as DrippingGoofball just got.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@farside22, you'll still need the ## for your vote to count. Also, why did you track Plum last night?

I support the mass claim idea; even though everyone knows what my motives are I do feel that there's enough information floating out there for the town with all the investigative roles that we could benefit from trying to piece it together as a group. I'll still be surprised if all the investigative roles are town but it's not clear at this time whether that makes them all that more likely to lie about their information. I'd suggest a flavor claim in addition to the role but then again I think that my targets don't have a fake claim so I'm biased.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@UncertainKitten, RedCoyote called for him to claim before claiming himself. I imagine RedCoyote will have more to share when he's about next but that seems to happen in the wee hours more often than not.

@the branches, is there any chance that you have the points for surviving without claiming until you either die or claim? I don't know how things work but that might explain some discrepencies.

At this point I'd suggest that d3x and Shotty to the Body take turns verifying eachother's information from the score board. You should both have gotten the information at the same time, right? If you're both convinced that eachother are telling the truth then there is something to be said for Fishythefish having potential motive to get me to shoot at one of the two of you. If they don't match then perhaps in the process of verifying Fishythefish can pick out which of you is likely to be the liar.

@everyone who hasn't claimed a government role yet, if you know that someone who has claimed government already is lying and claim so now I'll take that as a help finding scum and will target you last. There's a good chance that the game will end before I've managed to kill all of my targets and you should get appreciation from the town for helping out. It should also put you one step closer to a town win as I assume it would be scum who would be lying here; if town winning is good for you then that should be helpful.

Of course, really, if all the point factions have town winning as positive point move for them then it becomes largely moot. There must be some variation in either the goals or the points for it to make sense. If we can sort those out it might make more sense for me to be gunning for the team least interested in helping the town now.

@Shotty to the Body, when you said that you lose points if your partner claims what exactly did you mean? Spell it out in as much detail as you can and are willing to; it's not quite the same thing that Fishythefish has said.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

So here's the list of the information we seem to have from claims thus far. If I've got you wrong somewhere please do correct it. For anyone who's opposed to a mass claim at this point I'll invite you to take a look at how much we've already got out there and ask why keeping the rest of it hidden is good for the town?

• The Living
  
  
• animorpherv1: No claim
  
• charter: targeted LlamaFluff N2
  
• Chronopie: town/not town cop. Targeted Fishythefish (not town) N1, Jack (town) N2; something about not sure how he would turn up for point factions
  
• d3x: Executive, faction transmitted a weak watcher result on Chronopie to Plum
  
• Debonair Danny DiPietro: No claim (not government by Troll)
  
• DrippingGoofball: No Claim, recieved role cop transmission on Jack
  
• Ellibereth: No Claim (almost has to be Secret Service related)
  
• farside22: Tracker, tracked fishythefish to RedCoyote N1, Plum to Shotty to the Body N2
  
• Fishythefish: Judiciary, faction transmitted weak tracker result on Plum to Chronopie
  
• Gammagooey: Paranoid Gun Owner
  
• imaginality: No claim (well, not other or scum, but no real claim)
  
• StrangerCoug: No claim
  
• Plum: Some investigation on Shotty to the Body; recieved weak watcher on someone
  
• popsofctown: Vanilla Townie (not government by Troll)
  
• RedCoyote: roleblocked N1, probably something about charter N2
  
• Shotty to the Body: Legislature, transmitted a role cop result on Jack to DrippingGoofball
  
• UncertainKitten: presumably vig. Killed xvart N1 (by kill flavor); tried to target Plum N2, instead targetted Troll got redirected to Jack
  
• Zorblag: Sniper, shot at Debonair Danny DiPietro day one, popsofctown day two.
  
  
  The Dead
  
  
• Jack: Vanilla townie
  
• LlamaFluff: Town redirector. No results known
  
• Nicodemus: Vanilla townie
  
• Parama: Motive Cop. No results known
  
• Ojanen: Vanilla townie
  
• xvart: Legislature

You know, that's a lot of Vanilla townies dead compared to the density of those that seem to be left.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Chronopie, any answer to your question to the mod about what you can say about your role yet? Clearly you had something you wanted to share and I'd hate for you to forget to share it.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@UncertainKitten, if by lots you mean 6/18 haven't made any claim then yes, I suppose. I'm more of the opinion that when 2/3 of the living players have claimed something it's a good time to start trying to put all the pieces together. I'd say that as town as well but take it with a grain of salt if you like given that you know my motives.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@UncertainKitten, if you want to count things that way I suppose it's up to you. I think that we'll be filling in some of those gaps you're talking about soon though. I'd think that you'd want to nail down those making target claims to a particular claim sooner rather than later as we've got a hugely target rich environment for the one kill per night that doesn't seem to be coming from you and there's not much danger in losing vital roles at this point so far as I can tell.

But I don't get to make this decision. I'll leave that to the town. They simply get to see my advice and the data that I'm working with when I'm making it.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Chronopie, do you know if you flip green upon death?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Chronopie, sounds good. Unless it says you're a death miller you should flip green so long as you're town aligned. What sort of miller are you? Do you come up not town? Or mafia in particular? Or something else? How does your miller-ness work this game?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Hmm, and what's the format of the results you get? Any reason it wouldn't match the format you'd expect others to get?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, I just want to know if he gets town/not town as a result. That shouldn't be too much. He can paraphrase easily enough. If that's what he gets (and it seems to match the information he's given) then it'd be a bit surprising for him to expect other cops out there would get mafia in particular on him.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, yeah, of course the one time I got lazy and didn't put the @soandso on my post is the time that you get yours in before I post it and it causes confusion.

For what it's worth, a modkill on anyone other than members of the government right now would be terrible for me and certainly isn't something I'm trying to cause to happen. I wouldn't have taken my shot. Everyone should definitely avoid getting mod killed as a personal favor to me. Well and because you lose if you get mod killed.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Chronopie and Fishythefish, since you two are about, what are your thoughts on a mass claim? Would it likely be in the towns best interest to have full claims from everyone at this point?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Ellibereth, if he's telling the truth about that (it could be a red herring to distract me) I'd guess animorpherv1 offhand. There are a couple other options but that's such a nice fit for what I've seen.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Ellibereth, I meant animorpherv1 was my first thought for d3x's partner when I heard his claim. Nothing's changed that opinion so far.

As for conferring with you before I take my shot, I'm all for working with the town to decide who they want me to shoot but with you I'm dealing with someone who I've got pretty good reason to think is secret service and I don't have any reason to think that secret service is out to do me any good. Unless you're willing to do something to convince me that I shouldn't expect you to have some win condition that involves being able to predict where I'm going to shoot I'm not particularly inclined to clear my shots with you ahead of time. I'm happy to listen to reasons to change my mind but I don't see why I've got any reason to trust you right now.

@d3x, Fishythefish and Shotty to the Body, I think that the town in general would probably appreciate it if the pace at which you went about figuring out how you can compare scoreboard information for test of eachother's alignments as well as those that were transmitted to was picked up at this time.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

DrippingGoofball not being town really shouldn't surprise anyone at this point; she's just not playing the game like she would if she really cared about trying to lynch scum. I tried to explain why that was true back when I claimed but people are less inclined to blindly follow me than they are her. That's not that huge an issue for me though, I'm not here to sway the masses (most of the time.)

@DrippingGoofball, clearly if you're telling the truth you should want a mass claim at this point so you've got better information to make informed decisions. Why not apply some of that persuasive ability you've got to make that happen?

@Ellibereth, you saying that we can work together here doesn't exactly make me feel any better. It is interesting that you had me grouped with Debonair Danny DiPietro and popsofctown earlier but that doesn't make your list any more compelling in terms of you not wishing me harm. The town should want to know what your motives are sometime soon here as you've pretty much made it clear that you don't have the standard town win condition.

As for animorpherv1 as Fishythefish's partner, it's possible but that would mean that Fishythefish and Phate were going going pure bluff when Fishythefish thanked his partner for the excellent work in Post 706 and then Phate asked to be replaced in Post 730. I wouldn't put it past them I suppose but Phate's replacing out when he did would make it feel a bit dirty to me.

Is there some reason that you think DrippingGoofball shouldn't be a member of one of the branches? I think she'd be a decent candidate for a partner for Fishythefish (less likely for d3x.) If she's telling the truth about her role now then we seem to have two roleblocks on night one and someone decided that it was better to roleblock DrippingGoofball than any of the revealed information gathering roles we had after day two. I'm not even fully sure if it makes sense that her claimed ability should be roleblockable. Especially when I'm not sure why it should be a night ability given the scoreboard actions by the branches and my day vig's certainly aren't.

Have I mentioned that I'm not taking her claim at face value?

@Shotty to the Body, does your information match d3x's?

@Fishythefish, do you have anything extra to reveal after thinking about it?

@RedCoyote, where's your claim?

@everyone, I'd like a yeah or nay on mass claim with your next post. If you're opposed to it now after all the claims we've seen I want to see reasons why you oppose it.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

And my updated claim list thus far for your reading pleasure:

• The Living
  
  
• animorpherv1: No claim
  
• charter: targeted LlamaFluff N2
  
• Chronopie: town/not town cop, miller. Targeted Fishythefish (not town) N1, Jack (town) N2; something about not sure how he would turn up for point factions
  
• d3x: Executive, faction transmitted a weak watcher result on Chronopie to Plum
  
• Debonair Danny DiPietro: No claim (not government by Troll)
  
• DrippingGoofball: Neutral Statistician/Census Taker (roleblocked N1, roleblocked N2), received role cop transmission on Jack
  
• Ellibereth: No Claim (almost has to be Secret Service related)
  
• farside22: Tracker, tracked fishythefish to RedCoyote N1, Plum to Shotty to the Body N2
  
• Fishythefish: Judiciary, faction transmitted weak tracker result on Plum to Chronopie
  
• Gammagooey: Paranoid Gun Owner
  
• imaginality: No claim (well, not other or scum, but no real claim)
  
• StrangerCoug: No claim
  
• Plum: Some investigation on Shotty to the Body; received weak watcher on Chronopie
  
• popsofctown: Vanilla Townie (not government by Troll)
  
• RedCoyote: roleblocked N1, probably something about charter N2
  
• Shotty to the Body: Legislature, transmitted a role cop result on Jack to DrippingGoofball
  
• UncertainKitten: Vig and more. Killed xvart N1 (by kill flavor); tried to target Plum N2, instead targeted Troll got redirected to Jack
  
• Zorblag: Sniper, shot at Debonair Danny DiPietro day one, popsofctown day two.
  
  
  The Dead
  
  
• Jack: Vanilla townie
  
• LlamaFluff: Town redirector. No results known
  
• Nicodemus: Vanilla townie
  
• Parama: Motive Cop. No results known
  
• Ojanen: Vanilla townie
  
• xvart: Legislature

If it's missing details do help fill them in. If something's wrong do correct it.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@popsofctown, while I think that DrippingGoofball's claim most likely fake there clearly is an unknown as an option for a flip in the first post. I'd expect that they still fit into one of the alignments after the game is over and that she'd have to have figured out the numbers correctly with that taken into account but she didn't just make up the term.

I'd say you're probably bussing a partner now but I still don't think that DrippingGoofball is likely to be on a faction with kills. That much I'd guess she's being truthful about.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@popsofctown, what a fascinating response. If you've heard such good things about me and put any stock in them I'm not sure why you let DrippingGoofball's characterization of my scum hunting as poor go largely uncommented upon. I'm also a bit unclear why you'd have been as willing to lynch me yesterday if you thought I could have been helpful down the road when there were so many less useful targets. Mind you, you haven't seemed at all interested in who's scum up till this point in the game from what I can see from your play.

I've been saying that you're not town since about when you started posting. I don't think that I've ever particularly wavered in that. I know you're not government as I didn't hit you when I shot at you. That means you're pretty likely to be mafia in my opinion.

DrippingGoofball's claim is pretty dubious but she's clearly not town now. The only reason I don't think she'd be mafia is I expect the mafia to have a night kill and I don't think she'd bother with me during the day if she could use a night kill instead. Perhaps I've got that wrong, she did almost get my lynched after all (which was surprising; actually, I should have been dead when I claimed but Fishythefish and probably others weren't about to do the hammering I'm sure they would have liked to.) In any case, seeing you actually jump on a case for once definitely makes me think bus.

If we do end up killing her in the next day or night and she flips mafia you're my first guess for a partner despite the fact that it's too obvious. DrippingGoofball would pull the day vig bit on a partner and do things like staking her reputation on you being town to protect you just because, hey, who's going to believe she would do that? Mind you, if that does happen then I think that the night kills are coming from UncertainKitten (probably a vig, though I'm a bit more suspicious of her than I've said as accidentally targeting me last night when Plum was intended is a bit convenient) and a Serial Killer (because despite my earlier arguments that it was silly to be lynching me as a potential SK on the grounds that there's no evidence that there even is one, the 9999 damage kill flavor does make me think SK with a video game tie in more than mafia.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@d3x, I take it that you don't buy charter's claim then?

@Chronopie, what is your actual role title? You should be able to claim that without danger of modkill but feel free to check to be safe.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Gammagooey, I agree about animorpherv1 being more likely to be d3x's partner (unless both d3x and Fishythefish are playing subtle games.) It's Ellibereth that seems to think the other pairing is more likely.

@popsofctown, how about some flavor with that claim?

Updated Claims:

• The Living
  
  
• animorpherv1: No claim
  
• charter: town backup, inherited motive cop (other/not other cop) targeted LlamaFluff N2 (got not other)
  
• Chronopie: town/not town cop, miller. Targeted Fishythefish (not town) N1, Jack (town) N2; something about not sure how he would turn up for point factions
  
• d3x: Executive, faction transmitted a weak watcher result on Chronopie to Plum
  
• Debonair Danny DiPietro: No claim (not government by Troll)
  
• DrippingGoofball: Neutral Statistician/Census Taker (roleblocked N1, roleblocked N2), received role cop transmission on Jack
  
• Ellibereth: No Claim (almost has to be Secret Service related)
  
• farside22: Tracker, tracked fishythefish to RedCoyote N1, Plum to Shotty to the Body N2
  
• Fishythefish: Judiciary, faction transmitted weak tracker result on Plum to Chronopie
  
• Gammagooey: Paranoid Gun Owner
  
• imaginality: No claim (well, not other or scum, but no real claim)
  
• StrangerCoug: No claim
  
• Plum: Some investigation on Shotty to the Body; received weak watcher on Chronopie
  
• popsofctown: Vanilla Townie (not government by Troll)
  
• RedCoyote: FBI tracker, roleblocked (or interfered in some way) N1, tracked charter to LlamaFluff N2
  
• Shotty to the Body: Legislature, transmitted a role cop result on Jack to DrippingGoofball
  
• UncertainKitten: Vig and more. Killed xvart N1 (by kill flavor); tried to target Plum N2, instead targeted Troll got redirected to Jack
  
• Zorblag: Sniper, shot at Debonair Danny DiPietro day one, popsofctown day two.
  
  
  The Dead
  
  
• Jack: Vanilla townie
  
• LlamaFluff: Town redirector. No results known
  
• Nicodemus: Vanilla townie
  
• Parama: Motive Cop. No results known
  
• Ojanen: Vanilla townie
  
• xvart: Legislature

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@RedCoyote, I'm pretty sure that farside22 has indicated that she isn't one shot (she was worried about getting roleblocked from here on out.)

@popsofctown, you seem to be missing the fact that I don't think it's bussing because I don't think that DrippingGoofball is in a faction with a night kill. You're a great partner if she does flip mafia as that would mean I think they probably don't have a killing role.

I'd think that you'd have better ways to be spending your energy than looking here though. People aren't listening to me anyhow and there's still scum out there to catch. Scum which you don't seem to be catching beyond the fact that apparently now you think DrippingGoofball counts.

Out of curiosity, when did we determine that DrippingGoofball wasn't government? I don't see why you'd think that at this point.

Also, what is your role title? What is your flavor title?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@animorpherv1, we need you to check your QT. And be here in the game thread. I know you're around because you're posting on other threads.

@RedCoyote, you do realize that charter was one of the last people saying that Fishythefish was the right lynch yesterday, right?

@everyone, mass claim has now started. At this point you should be claiming with your next post. If you've left any information off your claim up till this point you should add it now. Claims should include role title, flavor title and motive. If you've taken actions you should claim them now. Paraphrase your motive and abilities to avoid potential mod kills.

My motivation is to bring the death panels those that have just instituted with the recent health care laws to all the standing members of the government. I'm a bitter, bitter activist. And I loves me some second amendment rights.

Clearly I don't think we should lynch anyone till the mass claim is done but take that how you like.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@UncertainKitten, yeah, I'm a bit suspicious of you but it's not like I can do anything about it; you seem really unlikely to be government based on everything that's happened. Further I like your claim a lot. It fits the kill style fairly well. I suppose I could drop a bit of paranoia at this point but it usually serves me so well.

As far as shooting DrippingGoofball goes, I'll let you know when I've taken my shot at whoever I take it at. She's a decent target now but I want to hear from Ellibereth and her before I do anything along those lines. I'm also still not in a hurry in general to shoot; this day, despite all that's happened, is still fairly young and we've definitely got a mass claim to get through. I might suggest a conditional order at this point; shoot DrippingGoofball if she's not dead and pick a second target if she is. If I do shoot at her and she's alive it just confirms that she's not government. It's up to you of course.

@farside22, why would charter have said anything about your tracker claim day two? We didn't get the second tracker claim until just now when RedCoyote made it.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Plum, you seem to have forgotten to take part in the mass claim there.

@charter, I don't have time to go back and look just now but are you saying that LlamaFluff claimed a power role? I don't think I recall him doing that. I don't personally have any trouble with you having checked to see if he was other or not but that would be a funny reason unless I've forgotten something (which isn't wholly unlikely given my memory.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@UncertainKitten, Census Taker wouldn't be part of the government for the purposes of this game any more than Director of Homeland Security was I wouldn't think. I'd expect President and Vice-President, Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader, Chief Justice Associate Justice as the role flavors based on the one flip we've seen (and assuming we're all making the right assumptions of 2 in each faction.)

@DrippingGoofball, if you're telling the truth with your claim why would you care at all whether I take a shot at you? If you're not government it wouldn't hit and you don't need to lynch scum for your claimed victory condition. Is it that I'm linking you with popsofctown now that's got you actually doing something (which I don't think is going to get you very far but I've been known to be wrong) in a game where you're hugely in the background compared to your normal play? Or is it just that you really don't want me to take that shot?

Also, shouldn't you be cheering on the mass claim and encouraging people to do their part?

@popsofctown, why wouldn't DrippingGoofball, if she was a member of the government, not lie about her role both to keep the unclaimed points there as potential and to keep me from shooting her? I really don't see a reason that you'd be assuming she's not government here.

@everyone, some Vanilla Townie flavors for your perusal:

Diplomat from England
Director of Homeland Security
Grassroots Organizer
Country Music Superstar

One of those things is not like the others.

Actually, here are some more claimed and confirmed flavors:

Fringe Tea Party Activist
Speaker of the House
Traffic Cop
High School Civics Teacher
C-Span Executive
Celebrity Impersonator
Rogue CIA Agent
Census Taker
FBI Bureaucrat
News Correspondent
Army Reserve Soldier

I think that's what we've seen. There's a pretty strong theme of politic/government related for all of them except the Celebrity Impersonator (charter), Country Music Superstar (popsofctown) and possibly the News Correspondent (though that one's much less of a stretch.) I realize that flavor can be different for given roles than the norm for a game but it's it interesting that the two most incongruous are popsofctown and charter thus far?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, I was wondering how you'd sort out that answer d3x gave given your previous answer to a question I asked.

I'm not sure why you think that Shotty to the Body gained points for DrippingGoofball given that we know she's not town at this point. I've followed most of the conversation about how points work (given that I'm working with less information than the rest of you doing it) but can you confirm that at this point you think there's no chance Chronopie is town (in terms of getting you points from transmission?)

@farside22, that's interesting as I think I've been giving them throughout the game.

Right now I think that popsofctown is probably scum, DrippingGoofball is probably scum (mafia or some hostile other) or government, StrangerCoug and animorpherv1 are on my marginal list. I could see scum or other for them without any problem. I'm a bit ambivilous about charter actually. His flavor doesn't match all that well but I don't really hate his claim. It'll be better after we get Plum to finish her claim that she's a mafia/not mafia cop (which would fit the symmetry and give her the extra knowledge though I'm not sure why she'd want to start out pushing Shotty to the Body today but she can explain that with her claim.) Ellibereth is up to something but I don't particularly think he's scum; again once he claims I'll be more sure.

To be honest I'm more looking for government that scum at this point. If I figure out people are scum that helps narrow down the government claims but it's sort of a secondary task.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@farside22, I don't think that popsofctown reacted well to the day vig. If they're scum together certainly the DrippingGoofball day vig thing was planned but I don't like his reaction regardless of whether they're teammates together or not. I talk about it in some detail in Post 801. Overall I dislike him because I don't believe that he picked his role randomly (or that he would think it benefits him) and he's been completely useless for most of the game. He's been hanging out in the background and doing no scum hunting until this bit with DrippingGoofball came up.

I don't really OMGUS that much; people will usually have a pretty long leash when it comes to attacking me. DrippingGoofball wasn't town because she wasn't acting how she would when she is town. That I was the focus made it easier for me to pick up on but this game is nothing like her town games; anyone who's played with her should see that.

@Ellibereth, interesting. You should probably note that I really am trying to work the the town here. Our motives overlap just fine if you're telling the truth. I suppose an effort to keep me in control is fine but that approach wasn't overly likely to succeed.

As a bodyguard do you die if the person you're protecting gets targeted with a kill?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Ellibereth, oh, and what do you think DrippingGoofball's chances of being government are?

Updated Claim List:

• The Living
  
  
• animorpherv1: No claim
  
• charter: town backup, inherited motive cop (other/not other cop) targeted LlamaFluff N2 (got not other)
  
• Chronopie: town/not town cop, miller. Targeted Fishythefish (not town) N1, Jack (town) N2; something about not sure how he would turn up for point factions
  
• d3x: Executive, faction transmitted a weak watcher result on Chronopie to Plum
  
• Debonair Danny DiPietro: No claim (not government by Troll)
  
• DrippingGoofball: Neutral Statistician/Census Taker (roleblocked N1, roleblocked N2), received role cop transmission on Jack
  
• Ellibereth: Secret Service, town bodyguard. Protected LlamaFluff N1, Chronopie N2.
  
• farside22: Tracker, tracked fishythefish to RedCoyote N1, Plum to Shotty to the Body N2
  
• Fishythefish: Judiciary, faction transmitted weak tracker result on Plum to Chronopie
  
• Gammagooey: Paranoid Gun Owner
  
• imaginality: Doctor (with protections that extend to the next day). Protected DrippingGoofball N1, Chronopie N2.
  
• StrangerCoug: No claim
  
• Plum: Some investigation on Shotty to the Body; received weak watcher on Chronopie
  
• popsofctown: Vanilla Townie, Country Music Superstar, not government by Troll
  
• RedCoyote: FBI tracker, roleblocked (or interfered in some way) N1, tracked charter to LlamaFluff N2
  
• Shotty to the Body: Legislature, transmitted a role cop result on Jack to DrippingGoofball
  
• UncertainKitten: Vig/neighborizer. Killed xvart N1; tried to target Plum N2, instead targeted Troll got redirected to Jack
  
• Zorblag: Sniper, shot at Debonair Danny DiPietro day one, popsofctown day two.
  
  
  The Dead
  
  
• Jack: Vanilla townie
  
• LlamaFluff: Town redirector. No results known
  
• Nicodemus: Vanilla townie
  
• Parama: Motive Cop. No results known
  
• Ojanen: Vanilla townie
  
• xvart: Legislature

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@DrippingGoofball, you'll pardon me if I don't feel that much pity for you about your lack of excitement in this game. If it makes you feel good you've managed to make it more exciting for me than I would have liked.

How would lynching me benefit either of us if I shoot at you and you don't die, thus confirming you're not government?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@DrippingGoofball, actually, with UncertainKitten interested in targeting you as well I am willing to make something of a deal with you if you like. Right now you probably die whether or not you're government. If you'd like to claim that you're government now I'll not shoot you till second to last at the earliest (I'd need another claim to be able to give you last.) Your partner should be able to confirm the claim so that should keep you safe to try to get your other points for a while at least.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, can you also conclude at this point (assuming that the other factions get points for transmitting to town, no points for other and lose points for transmitting to town) that DrippingGoofball is other? It seems that if she was scum you'd need to have Chronopie give you extra negative points if I understand what you've said correctly.

Feel free to claim her as a partner if you'd like; that would make the whole thing that much clearer.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@StrangerCoug, do you know exactly when those numbers changed? I'd guess that the first one was generated in N1 (well, twilight, after the mod-kill) and at the start of D2. I'm also guessing they're strings of numbers rather than single numbers. There aren't quite enough of them (they add to 20 and 18 respectively) but it looks like some sort of distribution of roles. That actually adds a lot of credence to DrippingGoofball's claim if it's the case.

@UncertainKitten, can you confirm the neighborizing? You said someone else had the ability earlier so it seems likely you will.

@Fishythefish, hmm, really? Let me look at your argument from before again.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, by your assumptions could Chronopie and DrippingGoofball have different alignments or do they have to both be mafia or both be other? I think it looks like you're getting that they have to have the same alignment.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@StrangerCoug, hmm, that's more at the end of the second day. Did he talk to you during twilight before he was killed? I take it he didn't give any context with the numbers and that you're pretty sure that he was giving updates as they happened (and wasn't just holding out on giving the second for some reason?)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Chronopie, Plum pretty clearly means Parama rather Chronopie for the dying bit. You do realize that the timing of your miller claim is pretty suspect, right?

@StrangerCoug, in that case the sums of the numbers do add up to the players other than LlamaFluff alive in the game at those times. I'd guess it is some sort of breakdown; I'll let DrippingGoofball do a little speculating if she'd like. I was troubled by the 5 going down to a 2 after 3 town deaths but if it wasn't counting LlamaFluff to start with then that shouldn't be a town counter. Maybe I think it's the size of groups that can communicate to eachother? But that's not enough 1s for that. I guess I'll let it percolate a bit. Also, this could be completely the wrong track.

@farside22, I think it's clear that they're saying they get other/not other and nothing else but I'll let Plum confirm that. I agree a bit that it's odd both would get the same role but I don't know why they'd claim it like this if it weren't the case. Differing alignments with the same power makes more sense. Incidentally, I do like the contractor flavor in terms of this game better than the celebrity impersonator. If I had to guess it would be that charter is the non-town if there is one.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@animorpherv1, it's time to come back to the party! We all want to hear your thrilling claim!

Past that I guess we're waiting for Debonair Danny DiPietro for everything, a role flavor and motive from Gammagooey (unless I missed it) and I think that's it.

• The Living
  
  
• animorpherv1: No claim
  
• charter: town backup, inherited motive cop (other/not other cop) targeted LlamaFluff N2 (got not other)
  
• Chronopie: town/not town cop, miller. Targeted Fishythefish (not town) N1, Jack (town) N2; something about not sure how he would turn up for point factions
  
• d3x: Executive, faction transmitted a weak watcher result on Chronopie to Plum
  
• Debonair Danny DiPietro: No claim (not government by Troll)
  
• DrippingGoofball: Neutral Statistician/Census Taker (roleblocked N1, roleblocked N2), received role cop transmission on Jack
  
• Ellibereth: Secret Service, town bodyguard. Protected LlamaFluff N1, Chronopie N2.
  
• farside22: Tracker, tracked fishythefish to RedCoyote N1, Plum to Shotty to the Body N2
  
• Fishythefish: Judiciary, faction transmitted weak tracker result on Plum to Chronopie
  
• Gammagooey: Paranoid Gun Owner
  
• imaginality: Doctor (with protections that extend to the next day). Protected DrippingGoofball N1, Chronopie N2.
  
• StrangerCoug: Neighborizor, targeted LlamaFluff N1, UncertainKitten N2
  
• Plum: Some investigation on Shotty to the Body; received weak watcher on Chronopie
  
• popsofctown: Vanilla Townie, Country Music Superstar, not government by Troll
  
• RedCoyote: FBI tracker, roleblocked (or interfered in some way) N1, tracked charter to LlamaFluff N2
  
• Shotty to the Body: Legislature, transmitted a role cop result on Jack to DrippingGoofball
  
• UncertainKitten: Vig/neighborizer. Killed xvart N1; tried to target Plum N2, instead targeted Troll got redirected to Jack
  
• Zorblag: Sniper, shot at Debonair Danny DiPietro day one, popsofctown day two.
  
  
  The Dead
  
  
• Jack: Vanilla townie
  
• LlamaFluff: Town redirector. No results known
  
• Nicodemus: Vanilla townie
  
• Parama: Motive Cop. No results known
  
• Ojanen: Vanilla townie
  
• xvart: Legislature

@StrangerCoug, you've given me a new bit of information; right now I'm just trying to see where it fits with the rest of the puzzle that is my understanding of this game. I need not be right about the meaning at all.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@StrangerCoug, I don't know yet; perhaps some factions can splinter? Again, I'm just throwing first guesses out there right now.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Ellibereth, does your body guard protection extend to the next day like imaginality's doctor protection does?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Oh, and that last claim list wasn't up to date.

• The Living
  
  
• animorpherv1: No claim
  
• charter: town backup, inherited motive cop (other/not other cop) targeted LlamaFluff N2 (got not other)
  
• Chronopie: town/not town cop, miller. Targeted Fishythefish (not town) N1, Jack (town) N2; miller affects points for branches
  
• Debonair Danny DiPietro: No claim (not government by Troll)
  
• DrippingGoofball: Neutral Statistician/Census Taker (roleblocked N1, roleblocked N2), received role cop transmission on Jack
  
• Ellibereth: Secret Service, town bodyguard. Protected LlamaFluff N1, Chronopie N2.
  
• farside22: Tracker, tracked fishythefish to RedCoyote N1, Plum to Shotty to the Body N2
  
• Fishythefish: Judiciary, faction transmitted weak tracker result on Plum to Chronopie
  
• Gammagooey: Paranoid Gun Owner
  
• imaginality: Doctor (with protections that extend to the next day). Protected DrippingGoofball N1, Chronopie N2.
  
• StrangerCoug: Neighborizor, targeted LlamaFluff N1, UncertainKitten N2
  
• Plum: town backup, inherited motive cop (other/not other cop); targetted Shotty to the Body N2 (got other); received weak watcher on Chronopie
  
• popsofctown: Vanilla Townie, Country Music Superstar, not government by Troll
  
• RedCoyote: FBI tracker, roleblocked (or interfered in some way) N1, tracked charter to LlamaFluff N2
  
• Shotty to the Body: Legislature, transmitted a role cop result on Jack to DrippingGoofball
  
• UncertainKitten: Vig/neighborizer. Killed xvart N1; tried to target Plum N2, instead targeted Troll got redirected to Jack
  
• Zorblag: Sniper, shot at Debonair Danny DiPietro day one, popsofctown day two.
  
  
  The Dead
  
  
• Jack: Vanilla townie
  
• LlamaFluff: Town redirector. No results known
  
• Nicodemus: Vanilla townie
  
• Parama: Motive Cop. No results known
  
• Ojanen: Vanilla townie
  
• xvart: Legislature

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Mod: Could we please get a prod on animorpherv1?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Ellibereth, and DrippingGoofball's chances of being government?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

I'm the town backup (celebrity impersonator). I inherited the role of the first town power role who isn't a one shot died. This was Parama day one. I got his whole PM. I didn't get to use it day one, just last night.

Parama's role is a motive cop (high school civics teacher). Motive cop essentially tells me if someone is an 'Other'. Llama was not 'Other'. I used it on him after he made some comment about believing Fishy's claim, I thought Llama might have a similar role.

@Chronopie, he's claiming to be an other/not other cop. Why was it you weren't worried about getting, say, investigated. That's what would a miller would normally have to do with. I don't think I would even have thought that it would affect the transmission if I were in your place (and telling the truth.)

@Ellibereth, you do realize that she's said that she's trying to figure out how many people fall into which alignments including unknown, right? She's claimed other already; if you're town why would you simply take her claim at face value? That seems unwise unless you've got some reason that you're not sharing.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Ellibereth, why would people have unknown alignments for the census? When the game is over I'd be pretty surprised if anyone was listed as unknown. Unless alignments are mutable for some (and that might be the case but I don't see why we'd assume it is) she probably wouldn't be looking for them. What I don't get here is why you're so ready to believe whatever she says. She's clearly not been leading the town in useful directions this game.

I've also pointed out why she'd have good reasons to lie about her alignment if she's government. Why is it you seem certain that she's not?

I know that you're better at thinking things through than this; it's a blind spot for you that makes no sense right now.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Ellibereth, there are two missing if it's really 6 (it probably is.) My best bets right now are animorpherv1 and DrippingGoofball. You seem to have been ruling DrippingGoofball out and I was trying to figure out why.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Gammagooey, it doesn't really matter as (now that I remember your early flavor claim of NRA Spokesman) I'm pretty sure you're not government but do you know if you would have killed me if I targeted you with a day vig attempt?

@everyone, once the mass claim is done I'll probably be getting close to ready to shoot. If you'd like input in the decision about who I aim for making it sooner rather than later might be of use. Here's what I'm thinking thus far:

Government (pretty sure kills): d3x, Fishythefish, Shotty to the Body
Possibly government (in a rough order): animorverph1, DrippingGoofball, imaginality (and that's a bit of a stretch)
Probably not government for various reasons: charter, Chronopie, Ellibereth, farside22, Gammagooey, StrangerCoug, Plum, RedCoyote, UncertainKitten
Definitely not government (I've already taken those shots): Debonair Danny DiPietro, popsofctown

If anyone objects to placement on that list of people I'm happy to talk about it. If anyone thinks it's better to take out someone we're sure of (and has an opinion about who) or if it's better to test one of the ones we're less sure of do tell. As I've said, I've got no reason not to work with town with this.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Yeah, I'm pretty tired now and should probably wait till tomorrow to make this decision but I think I've got the information that I'm going to get usefully today.

If one of a couple crazy things happens and I don't post any more I'd look for scum in the following order I think:

popsofctown, Chronopie, charter, imaginality, StrangerCoug

You can take that advice or not, it doesn't concern me too much one way or another as I don't need town to win. That's just where my suspicions lie at the moment.

Most likely I'll have more to post later tomorrow.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

I'm busy for much of the day, but yeah. DrippingGoofball was the next target on my list. She's not government. If I take a shot that hits I can shoot again. As of now I think that will no longer matter but we've got many fewer distractions to worry about.

I'll have more this afternoon.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Oh, and I'm not sure what's up with the vote count. I don't know why either charter or I would be voting for me or why our votes don't count. I assume that's a mistake.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Mod here: Ifixed the vote count

[Zorblag]

Hmm, I've got time to check in briefly.

I believe that DrippingGoofball is at L-1. No one gets to hammer and claim they didn't know it would be a hammer.

The good news is that I agree that she's the best lynch for the day. She's definitely not town by claim and I think it's exceptionally likely given the information from Fishythefish and how she's reacted to various things that she's scum. In any case, I can't afford to have us lynching more town now as I can't assume there are a lot of mislynches left and if scum win before I find that other member of the judiciary then I lose.

@UncertainKitten, you shouldn't announce who you're going to be killing tonight; if there's a scum redirector of some sort then you can plan on having your kill re-targeted if you say who it's going to be. LlamaFluff almost certainly redirected actions from me to Jack last night hoping that someone would try to kill me and thus taking out Jack who I think he was pretty sure wasn't town. I expect other redirectors would work that same way. You'll still be subject to roleblocks if there are any out there.

I'd choose between popsofctown (I think I've probably gone on enough about why I don't trust him at this point), Chronopie (because I don't particularly think that a miller would effect the points how he says he has, we don't seem to have any cops that would get a guilty on him how a miller should and I can completely see scum having a town/not town cop among other reasons) and charter (who, despite what DrippingGoofball is saying about you does have the best chance of being a Serial Killer if there is one; I am a bit suspect of the double backup and I like his flavor claim less.) Sadly I think none of them has any good chance of being my remaining target but they should be the best choices for town to kill. Of course if you're really playing me and will kill me tonight then there's nothing I can do to stop that.

@any potential vigilante other than UncertainKitten, clearly you should be targeting her. That's how false vigilante claims are supposed to be dealt with after all. I think she's probably telling the truth but I also don't think that there'd be another vigilante in the game so if you're out there I'd recommend taking her out.

@scum, remember, I can't do you any harm at all. Further, I'm out of the game as soon as I find my last target. There are much bigger threats to you out there right now. That goes for both mafia and any potential Serial Killer. I'll be trying to remove myself for you soon enough.

@the remaining member of the judiciary, I can't shoot you today and if you claim now I won't be in any hurry to do it tomorrow. I think I can narrow in on who you are if I'm still alive tomorrow and have a pretty good shot at taking you out. If you really do want the town to win then you should probably share any information you've got that will help them sooner rather than later.

@everyone, be sure to get night actions in at this point. This day is likely to end soon I'd guess.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@UncertainKitten, hmm, I wonder if you could unvote for now as you're here and I don't want an unexpected hammer. I want to hear what imaginality has to say; it could be important I'm thinking.

As far as StrangerCoug goes, if DrippingGoofball is mafia then he's a pretty decent choice for a partner. The numbers he got from LlamaFluff which he says he hadn't figured out at all would be a pretty good trap for someone like me to interpret in a way that made it look more likely that the census collector claim was true. Of course as it turns out they require that LlamaFluff passed the second one on after he was already dead which is a bit surprising.

I wouldn't assume that LlamaFluff's reputation as a scum hunter would make scum not want to neighbor with him; scum would probably try to get cozy with town in any case and if LlamaFluff hinted roleblocker or redirector of some sort in the qt that would make for a tempting kill for the mafia last night.

All of that is pretty speculative of course. If DrippingGoofball flips Census Taker through some craziness then StrangerCoug is probably much less likely to be scum.

*edit* And imaginality has posted. I'll go read it but I'm guessing it's what I think it will be.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@imaginality, you really were the only person left who I thought had any chance so I probably would have shot you fairly soon tomorrow; that claim reassures me. I largely agree with what you're saying there on all counts. The only thing that makes me nervous is I'm still pretty convinced that there should be someone trying to kill me. On the other hand, if I'm not dead tomorrow that probably shows that I'm just paraniod. I'm inclined to think that there are more likely five scum than four so I'm probably safe keeping you around for a bit. Let's see what we've got flip-wise tomorrow and work from there. I now have no need to shoot quickly though.

@scum, at this point if you want to get rid of me you simply need to kill imaginality; we'll both leave the game if that happens. He actually has some reason to want you to lose whereas I don't. I just need to win before you win or lose and I can now do that at any time starting tomorrow should I get nervous about anything.

@everyone, I'd wait to give everyone a chance to get their night actions set before hammering but past that I've got nothing else in particular I want to wait for.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

As an aside to any potential judicial doctors out there, if a town vig were to not get protected tonight and get killed I'd probably be less worried about town or scum winning the game quickly and be more inclined to be patient. Fishythefish really was pretty helpful with information much of the time and I don't see a great reason to hurt his faction if I don't need to. Mind you, you'll have to bring the issue up with Ellibereth (though as protecting costs him his life should he do it he might not mind as much as he might otherwise.)

It seems to me that scum would probably find an unprotected vigilante a pretty good target if they wanted to stay alive longer.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@UncertainKitten, interesting. I meant to ask if you joined the neighborhood with LlamaFluff or started your own but somehow never got around to it. How much of a role drop would you say LlamaFluff gave about the redirector thing?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Huh, I guess I'll have to wait till the game is over when I'll hopefully get to see the QT. Actually, imaginality, what would you hypothetically guess that Fishythefish did Night 1? I think he said but if you see this while I'm checking that'd be nice.

Mind you, I should also stop meddling at this point. I've got no real need to figure the rest of this out.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

You know what, there's probably a scum redirector out there. That or farside22 is lying about her track night one which would be super ballsy. I guess take that into account when you're coming up with submissions for actions.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Never mind, I'm an idiot. LlamaFluff is saying that his redirect switches the places of two players most likely and that he switched RedCoyote with whoever was targeted with the doc ability by Fishythefish. I need to learn to read properly.

imaginalities thoughts on what Fishythefish would have done were imaginality to guess at them would be a nice confirmation though.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

And I'll stop talking now. I've done enough for the day and I'm just looking more and more foolish with each post. I'll see you all tomorrow or after the game.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

I'm tried again and still making decisions. And I'm slightly drunk as well this time to make it even better.

Hopefully you scum had time to not kill me. It really would be a waste of your kill as I'm out of here after this if things go how I think they will. If either Ellibereth or UncertainKitten got me I can just say "Good job." If someone else got me they caught me by surprise.

@imaginality, it's nothing personal at all. I'm not here to play kingmaker. I'm here to try to win the game, or so it says in the rules. My reputation for winning when I've got the chance is now at stake. And if you're lucky I'll fail.

##Vote: DrippingGoofball

That won't win the game for me. It's the day action I set up for tomorrow that should. Unless I fail at something I don't understand.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@imaginality, either of those really could really be the case <insert complete lack of facetiousness here>. Or UncertainKitten could need to kill me for some reason and win that way. From here on out it's out of my control so best of luck to you. I look forward to games with you in the future regardless of how this turns out. Maybe we'll be able to work together then.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@RedCoyote, I take it that you must have missed the parts of the past 3 or 4 pages where I took a shot at DrippingGoofball and didn't hit to confirm that she is not, in fact, Fishythefish's partner. And the bit where imaginality hypothetically told us who is. Somehow you're doing this despite clearly seeing the sniping and asking right after it happened who the partner was which is odd but no longer my concern.

@popsofctown, I realize that I shouldn't take what you're saying seriously here but, for the record, I'm not being mean, I just think that you're scum and have been saying why. There's some chance I'm wrong (I don't think I am) but you've still got plenty of time to prove to the town how wrong I am by being useful from here on out. imaginality, on the other hand, I think I'm going to be shooting in fairly cold blood very shortly so he gets an explanation for that.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

For what it's worth, the mass claim only really let me move StrangerCoug and imaginality around a little bit in terms of suspects. I would have shot at animorpherv1 and DrippingGoofball first in any case (in some order) after the three outed members of the government. After that I had the two of them as decent shots and almost everyone else as poor choices based on the information that had already come out.

Keeping the fact that I could shoot more than once a day under wraps was clearly part of my plan for drawing the government out. If they thought I could just kill them one at a time it made them less likely to try to stay hidden. That didn't actually pan out in a useful way but so be it. It also made it better for me to take quick shots in the early game just for information/disinformation purposes.

It probably took me longer than it should to figure out that I was safe enough with my claim. I ran a big risk when I didn't make it till I was at L-1. And then when Ellibereth confirmed it but didn't take me off L-1 he pretty much killed any chances he had of me trusting him for the rest of the game.

Also, I really do claim that I went into this game attempting to be hyper-present just to combat some recent meta that I've picked up (sadly, mostly for people who ended up leaving soon or being in the scum team and for whom it didn't matter.) I suppose that if DrippingGoofball thinks it's based on the role I got it might be useful in the future for one of us.

I'm not sure what to think about the roles being distributed non-randomly. I did appreciate not having to work with anyone else I suppose.

@popsofctown, you had me fooled there. Great work! To answer your skepticism about how I can end up with a decent town record with an attitude like that I'll in part point to my final paragraph (catching scum isn't really my strength as I said earlier so I don't try to get people to follow my lead because I'm often wrong) and say that I've learned that if I am alive in LyLo I need to ditch all my assumptions and look instead at why I'm alive. This game I was wrong about as often as usual (which means I was right about something like half my reads) but you ended up being the townie that I tunneled on by mistake. And DrippingGoofball tried to say I wasn't doing that. *chuckles*

Finally, that's the least responsive group of people I've ever had on a bandwagon on me. I'm supposed to help the town by not being a lynch and by drawing mafia night kills away from town power roles; I completely failed to do that here. In order for that to happen I need to have people who are willing to listen to my cases and examine what's actually happened in the game. I like to think that it's not just my end of things that broke down this time.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Debonair Danny DiPietro, when day 4 rolled around you didn't even have to believe the members of the government anymore. Chronopie had constructed a ridiculous story about being a miller who changed their points as soon as he realized that they could use their points to figure out what his alignment might have been. He himself was claiming that he would show up as scum for them before they came to the conclusion themselves. And I think his story of how that worked changed around a bit while he was settling on it. Mind you, the rest of the town didn't seem to be focused on/remember that so you probably could have gotten away with it even if the rest of the scum team had slipped up I suppose.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Chronopie, no I realize what you were doing. You were in an inconvenient spot and you went with a claim that was probably the best you were going to come up with (assuming people would be listening to what the government said.) I don't have any problem with that at all on your end. I'm just saying that it still wasn't particularly believable and that Debonair Danny DiPietro didn't need to have been listening to the government to suspect you given that you confirmed what they were going to say before they said it. His take on you at the start at day four would have made me suspicious if I was still in the game (and I had any reason to care about him which I hadn't since almost the start of day one when I confirmed that he wasn't government.) Not claiming President was certainly a good move as I would have been all over you for that (as head of the Executive) despite the fact that you had it as a fake claim from the mod.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh