Newbie 970 - Quietville - Game over

[Mirhawk]

Don't be a hypocrite Xcite, on the first post of the game you voted for someone with the reasoning "Because I said so."

I used to play mafia years ago on another site, but this is my first game in a while.

[Mirhawk]

My Comment had nothing to do with your reasoning about bandwagons, but rather that fact that you changed you vote to a person for doing something that essentially you had just done.

And uh... by the way its Xite, pronounced Zite... (no anger-face, just letting you know ^___^)

Sorry, my bad

[Mirhawk]

I don't think OMGUS is much of a tell until later in the game when people should have better reasons than that to place their votes.

In any case there's still two players who haven't posted yet, I'd like to hear from them.

[Mirhawk]

Xite, your massive overreactions aren't helping your cause any.

I'd vote for you but I'm not sure a scum player would draw so much attention to themselves on day one.

[Mirhawk]

Is it normal to randomly lynch people right at the beginning? It seems like it would be a bit illogical for a townie to do so to me :/
But I suppose it gets the game rolling...

I've seen some games where instead of voting randomly at the beginning of the game the players ask each other a set of questions that don't really have to do with the game. The end result is the same though, it both gets the game started and allows players to sound each other out so they know a bit about how a player talks and reacts before the game really gets going.

[Mirhawk]

Speaking of Mirhawk... Is their a particular reason you've decided to only respond to/when Xite does?

Post 1 & 2 are discussing with Xite
Post 3 is responding right after Xite does

Post 4 is an exception, but it's only telling Compute about RVS

Do you have anything to say about the game?

Hmm I never really noticed that myself until you pointed it out. Its not intentional, just those are the posts I was responding to. At this point I'm not as suspicious of Xite as I was before anyway. I don't think she defended herself very well, but if I were mafia and in her shoes I would had tried to deflect that conversation off me and onto someone else sooner than she did.

That being said, I don't think there should ever be a time where someone is not voting, especially in a noob game. Vote counts help replacements, something noob games typically have a lot of, because it shows replacements at a glance how things are going, and I really don't care to find another random reason to vote.
If you want any more of a reason, you may have learned your lesson, but youre still in time-out until I say so.

I didn't really see a reason to be throwing random votes around at the beginning of the game. 90% of the time those votes get changed anyways. Besides I hope that any new player who switches into the game would actually read the thread from the beginning rather than make their opinions on the latest vote count.

As for Orphan, I don't think his behavior is overtly suspicious. His last post against Xite was kinda terse but that could be explained by how abrasive she was in her previous post.

I'm more interested in Lateralus, you seem to have a fence sitting position between Xite and Orphan where you are mediating the dispute and could easily jump onto whichever side looks like the town is leaning toward.

Of the remaining players Rain seems the least suspicious, and the rest I don't have any particular opinion on yet.

[Mirhawk]

BTW at this point we are 48 hours into the game and Nachomamma still hasn't posted. Is this an acceptable amount of time for a prod to be issued?

Also MrDean hasn't posted in a while.

[Mirhawk]

@Computing
In all seriousness though, RVS, as stated here, in the wiki, and elsewhere, provide us with a starting point. Subsequent posts then reveal the author's character and everybody gets to play detective. Not voting withholds information, not because that voting was particularly useful, but because you stump any discussion that may arise. So please be a dear and vote for someone. It can be anyone, for any reason. Do keep in mind though that while "being an ass" is a totally valid reason for voting, it might be considered weak.

Fair enough.

At the moment I'm most interested in Lateralus so...

VOTE: Lateralus

[Mirhawk]

Any reason as to why you responded as soon as you came under the spotlight? Or was it that you just happened to come on at that time? (and please dont take this in the wrong way, the second part aint sarcastic)

No offense taken. I was online on and off for most of the day yesterday. I just didn't see the need to say anything until it was specifically requested of me.

Oh and

FoS Mirahawk

For the way he voted for lateralus. Rather then vote for me or xite, or anyone else for that matter, he voted for the 'safe' vote, on the main "attraction" of the moment, and supplying the same reasons as everyone else.
Something that wouldn't really grab anyones attention.

Why would I vote for you or Xite? I had already stated in my previous post that I wasn't all that suspicious of you and I wasn't sure if Xite would jump into the spotlight so much is she was scum. I had already voiced suspicions on Lateralus so I went with that. Are you implying that I should either jump onto the nearest bandwagon or vote randomly? With only a slight rewording you could have asked me that no matter who I had voted for.

[Mirhawk]

2 - I don't want to push a vote too hard that im not at least 90% sure of, but (in honor of our mighty mod and the all powerful Mal) let me make this abundantly clear, you're at about 87.9% and pushing it

I don't think I quite understand your case against Orphan. You seem dead certain that he's mafia but I don't really get why.

Okay, so Fos Orphen

Reasons

[0] Falling under peer pressure (This is obviously a joke do not take it as more)
[1] Overreacting to my

over

reactions
[2] Trying to build a case on me out of something that should have just been a don't do this, okay? okay!
[3] In doing so;
[a] Diluting the thread with useless information

Trying to get me to do the same (and sadly, succeeding)
[c] Making it harder for town to read into things others are saying

1) This one makes some sense to me, but it seems like you are saying that we should vote for him based on something that you yourself had done. Or are you saying that you never actually overreacted?

2) I can kinda understand that, but from my point of view it seems kinda like you were the one who wouldn't just let it drop. I mean you could have just said that your reasons were in your previous posts, but instead every time it was mentioned you posted a whole new spiel about it.

3a) Where exactly was he doing that?

3c) In what way? Do you think he was deliberately trying to discredit you? And if so how?

Posting all of your quotes I will use in your last post in order using 1,2,3,4..

1)
2)No, in no way did i, lets say question you, because you are an easy target, or an easy bandwagon. I don't know how you get this impression that i am doing such, and think you are just trying to blow out what i said in order to make what i said seem more "lethal."

2. Ooh, avoiding my accusation and instead putting one on me! We got a feisty one town, hang em high!

This is the only part in your later accusation that seems to hold any real water. But then again in all fairness you never answered his question either.

Do you have any

specific

things that you suspect him for, or is this based mostly off what you feel?



@Lateralus

I believe the scum would prefer to stay on the sidelines instead of move the game forward.

I don't agree with this. I think that a mafia player would be more inclined to be active. It is after all in their best interests to move the game forward quickly, particularly if they can steer it towards a townie.

[Mirhawk]

3a) Reread the thread and tell me how much game content has been added by him? Less than me to say the least. And like I said, when I have a good enough case and I am 90% sure, I will do everything in my power to get him lynched because I really do feel like he's scum.

3c) It's a lot harder to scumhunt when there's no real content in posts referring to the game, no matter who's. He was putting up filler and prodding me to do the same, like I said, sadly I gave in to him, I'll admit my mistakes.

What exactly is it that makes his posts have no content other than the fact that they were directed at you? He only has four posts for crying out loud.
-the first is RVS
-the second is voicing suspicions about you
-the third is in response to you
-and in the fourth he both asks and answers questions to and from multiple players.

4) What question, I might have missed it. I'll answer anything you throw at me if you want.

Hmmm, I think you're right. In the quote from him in my last post I thought he asked you what made you think he was bandwagoning him. But upon rereading it doesn't seem to be phrased as a question. Sorry bout that.

5) Yes, it is mostly a gut feeling, but I have my points on him and when I vote I will be sure to reiterate them and add more even. But you have to wait until he says more for me to do that.

Which is to say, you got nothing but don't want to say it out loud. What reason could you have for withholding it if it might sway more people to vote for him. You are after all 90% sure.... that's pretty certain.

----------------------

Would you be willing to agree that you and Xite have the same playing style in mafia?

I dunno, maybe. I think it would probably be easier for a third party to make a judgement on this rather then me or Xite. Do you think I play in the same way?

I'm curious, what is the reason for this vote? I read the quote and Rain is speaking about RVS and if it's about upholding information, I think I've already provided some or asked questions in order to obtain information.

At the time I cast it I was thinking that Xite and Orphan could both be town. And if they were both town then you might be using your position between them to egg on the argument without actually getting inside it. You were after all at the time asking questions of both sides at once without committing to either of them.

While I'm not as suspicious of you as I was before I'm still going to keep there for the moment. Besides I'm a suspicious fence sitter right now too.

I don't agree with this. I think that a mafia player would be more inclined to be active. It is after all in their best interests to move the game forward quickly, particularly if they can steer it towards a townie.

Not really, the more posts/content to post the more easier it should be to call BS on them. If they blend in the crowd they'll be harder to spot. Oddly enough if this is what you think the mafia would do then don't you think Xite is the mafia?

A) He is active.
B) He is moving this game forward, and oddly enough he seems to think he's the leader here.

AND since Xite is within your definition of mafia then why did you state here that you do not think he is the mafia?

Why would I vote for you or Xite? I had already stated in my previous post that I wasn't all that suspicious of you and I wasn't sure if Xite would jump into the spotlight so much is she was scum.

Well?

FoS: Mirhawk

I said I figured they would be active, not suicidal. Xite couldn't have jumped further out into the spotlight if her head was on fire and was shooting fireworks out of her ass.

Besides Xite had a point when she said that speculation on this is kinda useless. Its not going to help us catch scum.

[Mirhawk]

Honestly I don't. This is important because if you don't then you're reason for not voting Xite in the start of the game is nothing. Please reread the quote that I asked the question from. You speak of what you would do as mafia instead of Xite as a reason to not vote him but seeing how two of you having different play styles you wouldn't act in the same way making your reason just an excuse.

Perhaps, but what should I be using as a baseline for what is scummy behavior then? Seeing as how I'm not familiar with any of the people in this game I have no past behavior to compare what they are doing to other than what I would do in a similar situation.

[Mirhawk]

Vote: Mirhawk

He's the second most suspicious in my book and you already know why I'm not voting the first.

Really because you're rapidly approaching the first in mine.

You still haven't given me a real answer to this.

5) Yes, it is mostly a gut feeling, but I have my points on him and when I vote I will be sure to reiterate them and add more even. But you have to wait until he says more for me to do that.

Which is to say, you got nothing but don't want to say it out loud. What reason could you have for withholding it if it might sway more people to vote for him. You are after all 90% sure.... that's pretty certain.

lol reread. again.
I said I won't vote him until I'm 90% sure. I also said I was about %87.9 sure
I'm pretty sure I made that abundantly clear

I think it's abundently clear that that question wasn't about your percentages and rather why you won't share your "evidence" with the rest of us.

I rather hope your case against me isn't so vague and nebulous.

[Mirhawk]

This is my case on him Mirhawk, anything else?

Ah no, sorry. From your earlier post I had the impression that you had something else on him and just didn't want to share it. It appears that was not the case.

You've got the whole wiki and your common sense to tell you what scum behavior is, I'm not here to tell you how to scum hunt. Take a look at the your post that I quoted about what you think the mafia hat act like. My point was that at this point Xite had these characteristics, but you did not think he was scum. This is contradicting yourself. It's weird. This makes me suspicious of you.

I'm still not really sure what you're referring to. Is it:

I don't agree with this. I think that a mafia player would be more inclined to be active. It is after all in their best interests to move the game forward quickly, particularly if they can steer it towards a townie.

Because I already mentioned that I thought Xite was too active for that. I was referring more to players that post regularly and join in the discussion. From there they can more reliably aim the towns lynch towards someone who isn't them. The best examples of that in this game are probably Rain and Lateralus.

This is all contextual anyways, a player who isn't me wont necessarily act this way.

Why are you so interested in my opinions on mafia theory anyways?

However, I agree that Mirhawk's unwarranted vote for Lateralus looks odd.

I find it odd that you would say that. As I recall I placed my vote in response to you asking me to. Also the reasons for it's placement were in the post immediately before the one with the vote. I believe I have explained this more than once as well.

Although my suspicion of Lateralus is at this point somewhat diminished I have no favored alternatives to put the vote on. It's not like he's in imminent danger of being lynched anyways.

[Mirhawk]

Don't be a hypocrite Xcite, on the first post of the game you voted for someone with the reasoning "Because I said so."

Mirhawk started the fluff that lasted 2 pages. and fed it at his own will. Then bases claims from the fluff that I don't agree are scumtells.

Wow... not as much to add as i would have liked. I think i need some rest I know there is more out there.

There's no way I could have predicted that it would turn out like that. Besides, how did I feed that discussion? I barely participated in it.

Exactly what claims did I make that you don't agree with anyways.

[Mirhawk]

I'm going to be away for a few days and will be unable to post in the thread. I will be leaving on Friday, and will be back on either Sunday or Monday.

Noted. Thank you for giving the heads up

Also, because I don't want to leave my vote assigned while I'm gone.

UNVOTE

[Mirhawk]

Page 2...
~Orphen and Vayre, the "would scum draw that much attention to themselves" stuff is just plain wrong. Scum don't look scummy intentionally (usually), so wondering when they'd do it makes no sense.

I'm pretty sure that was me.

Also your entire post seems to be filled with inane information. Most of the things you mention have little to no relevance, have already been explained by others, or are blatant sucking up to the players who are under little scrutiny.

Why does your information peter off so much toward the end anyways? You seemed to have a lot to say about the first half of the game. Is it because the content in it doesn't target the people you're accusing, so you chose to ignore it?

Then to top it off you write a list of people you would lynch today. This information is not of any real use to the town, but could be used by mafia players to decide which people would be easier to bandwagon.

VOTE: Sleepless Assassin

[Mirhawk]

Why is this scummy?

It's not. I just don't think it's a very good idea. This information seems far more useful to the mafia then to the town.

[Mirhawk]

With Mirhawk I think I'm possibly being swayed by others rather than thinking for myself but I really don't like the fact that he doesn't like Sleepless making a list as in his sixth post he effectively makes a list like Sleepless did (just in paragraph form) so I'm not sure what his deal with lists is.

My problem isn't with lists in general, but rather with the content of that particular list. Imagine if the mafia had one from every player in the game, they would not only be able to more easily steer towards a mislynch. But they would know who the most trusted people in town were and would be able to target them for nightkills. Granted, a portion of this information could be inferred anyways, but no reason to make it easy for them. Also, the information in my sixth post was requested by Rain.

My top pick is Sleepless Assassin, I'm a little split on my second though.

[Mirhawk]

Preview edit: Who are the two candidates?
Why sleepless?
I know him in real life so I'm a little biased on him tbh I know his meta all too well and it just seems like him being him, but if you can present a case to me on his uh 1 post? then I'll take it

There's more than two, that's why I'm so split.

As for sleepless, I was already suspicious of him from when he was Lateralus. I already mentioned why I don't like his first post, then in his second post his reasoning for essentially skipping almost half the game in his first post was "I was lazy".

Though I admit, some of his comments about you may be a little more pertinent than I had thought if he knows you in real life.

The thing about lists is not a part of my case, I just wanted to mention it.

[Mirhawk]

Perhaps

After sleepless I have Reverse Simplicity. Then Orphan and you.

Vayre Worries me a little too. He hasn't said anything I find suspicious, but he's said so little I don't really have much to analyze.

[Mirhawk]

It's not scummy yet you are voting me?

Also, and response to my post 168?

That's funny I seem to remember already saying that it has nothing to do with my case on you. In fact I said it in the post that was responding to your post 168. Heck you even acknowledge that post later in your same post for crying out loud.

By the way, that third question puts Comput right in that same category as Rain. He won't be getting my vote in this game.

Ungh would you stop saying that. Its a terribly irresponsible thing to say and it makes my stomach tumble.

When you read more than a few pages, it starts to get dull. It just happens. I'm just straight up admitting that rather than make up some kind of excuse like most people would. It has nothing to do with alignment. It's just the way the human mind works.

Which I might believe if your points on the first pages weren't so detailed. Or how when you reached the end you still had the energy to make not one, but two lists. Or the fact that you have had plenty more time to think about it, but still have no apparent opinion on the latter half of the game. Which in my opinion is the half with the greater wealth of information in it anyways.



@Xite
So I have to not only post a case on my chief suspect, but my next three as well? If I did that not only would this post be three times as long, but the next two game pages would be me having to defend my suspicions from the people they involve.

Also I notice that You haven't posted your top two yet. Mind answering your own question.

[Mirhawk]

@Sleepless

And what exactly is your case against me anyway?

[Mirhawk]

Fine

Reverse Simplicity:
-originally voted for me for reasons that were essentially moot.
-When pressed for more reasons for his vote he claimed (more than once) that he had other reasons but never got around to posting them.
-When it became apparent that the wagon on me was going nowhere he retracted his vote without supplying a reason.
-He hasn't said anything of importance in ages.

Orphan:
-Some of his posts seem more aggressive than they need to be. This may just be the way he acts though.
-I don't really understand the point of his argument with Rain over buddying up.
-He continues to vote for Xite despite having said his original reasons were wrong, and hasn't given new reasons for his vote since then.

Xite:
-You keep dismissing peoples questions by telling them to reread things you already said.(or quoting them) Not considering that the reason they asked in the first place is because they didn't like or wanted clarification on your original answer.
-Your case against Orphan appears to be held together with twigs and fairy dust. Your original reasons for voting him were pretty flimsy, and despite having now placed your vote on him I not you still haven't stated any real reasons for doing so.

And there you go. Will you perhaps answer you own question now?

Also as a side note, are you aware that your posts make up a little over a quarter of the games total posts.

[Mirhawk]

@Orphen

I'm not sure what you're asking with that question. I already posted my suspicions against her.

@Xite
Okay seriously, what the hell Xite. This started with you asking about everyone's top two, why are you even demanding such in depth information from me anyways. Especially seeing as how you still haven't answered your own damn question. Despite repeated requests that you do so. I even stated that I didn't want to post my suspicions on my secondary suspects because I didn't feel like defending them. But you asked nicely, so I figure "what the hell why not." But as soon as I post them you instantly try to pick apart the ones that involve you. Why do I get the impression that you only asked because you wanted to know what I had on you.

1-Look at his posts in ISO. I don't think any of them since his sixth post has any real merit, and that was ten days ago.
2-Perhaps you should be a little more perceptive about why other people are asking questions instead of assuming they're idiots.

[Mirhawk]

1 - Are you talking about Lat or Sleepless? Because lat replaced out and you can only hold so much against his replacement. Sleepless, however is actively scumhunting. Yes, he got lazy around the middle, but to be honest I do the same thing when I replace into games. The game's meant to be fun not a super obligation.

Neither, I was referring to Reverse Simplicity.

[Mirhawk]

No I don't know if she's scum. Some of the things she has said are undoubtedly suspicious in my books. But I have no definite scum read on anyone, let alone her.

I also feel that at this point I should say that we really need to decide who we want to lynch today. There are only around 4 more days until the deadline, and if we don't reach a majority by then then it'll be a no lynch.

As it looks like I am the only person with any real amount of suspicion for Sleepless I would be willing to change my vote. Though with the number of people who are posting lately we may not even have enough bloody votes to get a majority anyways.

What are your guys thoughts on this?

[Mirhawk]

RS ISO:

I rescind my previous statement about RS's Mirhawk vote being opportunistic; looking back, I see it certainly wasn't. However, I think that the reasoning for the vote overallwas weak, and him holding Orphen as his #2 suspect but never voting him afterwards is a possible buddy tell pointing towards Orphen.

The rest of his posting haven't been anything note-worthy at all, although I do really dislike the "I'm making my case all nice and neat" comment, especially since there wasn't a follow-up. Also, the "there's no scumtells now, I'll check back later" posting is getting old, and it definitely makes him more likely scum.

Overall, I'm leaning scum on RS. Might be the lynch for today.

I would be in favor of a lynch vote on Reverse Simplicity.

Though personally I think the most suspicious thing he did was the manner in which he retracted his vote on me.

[Mirhawk]

sorry, no case is usually one of my biggest pet peeves if you couldn't tell

You cannot possibly be serious. I've been pressuring you for a more detailed case on Orphen for bloody ever. Hell Orphen has even asked you for your case on him (a request which you ignored twice). You also claimed to be writing a post on exactly what your suspicions were three days ago..... But that never materialized.

I would at this point be willing to vote for Xite as well as Reverse Simplicity.

[Mirhawk]

A no vote is no good in my books and the only person that the town is likely to come to a consensus at this point is RS.

So

Unvote Vote: Reverse Simplicity

[Mirhawk]

@Rain
The odds of him posting at this point are rather nil. After all he hasn't posted in seven days. Besides Sleepless Assassins vote hammered him anyways.

[Mirhawk]

... um... Is this inactivity normal, or should we send our mod a PM?

If Wolf was online he would probably have left us a message or something, so I assume he is unable to get online.

I've sent a PM to our games backup mod Incognito.

[Mirhawk]

There has been no information on which game setup we are playing. They may have taken Vayre because they were unsure if there was a doctor in the game. After all, he would be pretty unlikely to receive protection.

Also, I doubt that that kill was random. The mafia almost certainly discussed this amongst themselves, and if that is the case then I don't think that they would just decide on a random kill.

[Mirhawk]

I agree with Sleepless. Any point that he made on Reverse for his vote would have been effectively moot because it was a vote that had to be made regardless. Besides if had waited for Reverse to reveal then he might have missed his chance to place that last vote.

Also, on further reflection I don't think that Nachos list of possible lurkers to lynch had any chance of ending up on anyone other than Reverse. After all the town was unlikely to go for Nacho as he was the one that suggested the plan. Orphen was borderline too many posts to be a lurker (and the town was really divided on him anyways). As for Vayre and Reverse... well neither of them had many posts, but reverse had used questionable reasoning and never posted explanations that he had promised. Also a couple of people had already posted that they thought Vayre was town.

I'm not saying that it was scummy, I'm just curious if you were directly targeting Reverse Simplicity?

[Mirhawk]

In both situation, I thought Nacho deserves some scrutiny. However, I couldn't find anything incriminating

More or less the same with me. I was starting to feel a little suspicious of him, mostly because of the gung-ho leader and active poster attitude he suddenly adopted. But upon viewing his posts in ISO the only thing I had was the question I asked in my last post.

As for who I think the scum is.... I'm rather at a loss. We lost two players and gained next to no information in return.

I think you are only blowing it up to attack my credibility because I'm the only one who seems to see your scunniness.

Would I be correct in assuming that you two play Mafia together IRL. If so, would you say that Xite is acting out of character for her usual play style?

[Mirhawk]

@Computing

I find it a little odd that your top two suspects are the only people that others have been voicing suspicions about since the day started. It feels a little like a bandwagon hop.

Also the last time you voiced suspicions on lateralus was on page four of the game, roughly a month ago. (unless I missed something)

[Mirhawk]

I don't know if I like that ISO you did on Orphen. If you look hard enough you can find a way to attach a negative Connotation to pretty much anything a person says. While you do make a couple good points, lots of the things you're holding against him are rather weak. I got the impression from your post that you already believed in his absolute guilt and therefore everything he said was for the worst reason possible.

As for your one on Computing, I disagree with pretty much everything you said. You praised him for a case against Orphen that was based pretty much on Orphens avatar, and condemned him for a misunderstanding that was your fault in the first place. Also, I find many of the more interesting observations that Computing has had were after he started to get a feel for the game. Which was after the point where you dismissed everything he said as not worth analyzing.

@Sleepless
Okay, I was mostly curious because of the way you were voting for her. I was under the impression that you were voting because of how she was acting as opposed to something in specific she had done.

[Mirhawk]

Whoops got a prod. I am online almost every day, I just haven't had much to say.

I will however be V/LA until Monday.

At the very least I think that both of them aren't scum. The exchange between them would have worked fine with one scum though. After all both of their cases were so weak it would be hard to pick out a bullshit one.

As for Rain, I haven't seen him do anything directly scummy but I am curious as to what you have on him.

[Mirhawk]

Nacho, your opportunistic voting case against Rain is rubbish.

His vote on Orphen was after several posts in which they argued a point that Orphen had brought up in the first place. His later vote Against Xite was also clearly (as I view it) started before you posted your list with Xite in it. You say he merely was mildly suspicious of Xite, but his whole post (and it wasn't that small a post) was about what he thought she was doing wrong. It was a rather tense post too, I'm not surprised that he followed it up with a Vote.

As for the Lynching vote of Reverse yesterday...... Honestly I can't believe you're still wasting time analyzing it. Look at the other four voters.
-Nacho -Just wants to lynch a Lurker
-Mirhawk -First posted willing to vote, then placed vote after others displayed interest
-Xite -Immediately agreed and tossed on a vote
-Sleepless -No reason supplied

You can't honestly think that any of these are less suspicious then Rains vote. If you're hoping to sway my vote the second half of your case had best be a great deal more convincing.

Also Nacho, you say that mine and Xite's position on your chart were reversed. Why then did you post that you had both voted for and laid out a case against Xite in a post that you had lost?

@Orphen
That is so evil genius that it send chills down my back.

I note that a couple of you have me laid out as scum. While that's your prerogative to do so I note that neither of you have bothered either asking me any questions or accusing me of anything.

[Mirhawk]

Bolded. This is exactly what I just said scum would do...

Good Job captain, you managed to notice this immediately after I pointed it out to you. But I think you missed the point I was trying to make. My point is that any one of those votes could be called opportunistic, depending on how you look at it.

Nacho's case on me was the bait to see if Rain would do it again (which he did) I think he said that
voting.

My problem with that bait is that by the time it was set Rain had already started a campaign against you. It's easy for Nacho to look back and say "hey look his vote is after my post" but the reality is that we have no idea if Rain was planning to place that vote all along. In his next post (the one with the vote) he says he was rereading the thread, which could explain why he took a while to place the vote. Also he must of at least reread some of it because in that post and his next one he references several specific posts by both Xite and Computing.

Oh and also Xite, I notice that you seem to be sucking up to Nacho a bit. You agree readily with pretty much anything he says. If another player tries to criticize you or point out something you did wrong you defend it to the death. But if Nacho says it you either accept it without argument, or let it go without responding to it. Also, I notice that Nacho's case on rain is immediately following Rain stating that he found Nacho Suspicious. Possible Xite-Nacho mafia perhaps?

Oh and Nacho, we're kinda running out of time. If you actually have more on Rain it would be nice if you posted it before we run out of time to act on it.

As for Shotty, if I look back and check out Xite in ISO I could probably find a dozen things that are suspicious enough to call her on. But what do you put up as evidence.... Nothing. Have you even read the thread? If you can't be bothered or don't have the time why did you volunteer to get into this game in the first place? At first you seemed to have a couple of actual points on Xite, but as soon as the next day rolled around you seemed to forget all about them. As far as I can tell you're either a crappy townsperson who is making it harder for the rest of us to actually find scum. Or a super obvious mafia who stands out like a sore thumb. Either way, your not helping.

Oh and Xite, my comment to Orphen was regarding the theory in his last post before mine. It would not have been hard to find if you had actually bothered looking for it.

[Mirhawk]

To be fair, I don't think Shotty lied at any point. His assertion that you only scumhunt in 2/10 of your posts was a exaggeration, but so was your response that you did in 9/10 posts.

So you suspect Rain for some things Nacho said... But you at the same time find Nacho suspicious for assuming a apparent leadership role, which he is using to attack.... Rain??

Oh and you answered your own question about why rain didn't die last night in your first post of day two.

For the record, if it comes right down to the wire and we're still at a deadlock I'll almost certainly hammer you Xite.

[Mirhawk]

I can hammer, but it will have to be before I go to bed tonight. I won't be back from work until way after the deadline tomorrow.

There's next to no chance that you'll convince anyone to change their votes now Xite.

Nacho, that thing about that post of Rains is even weaker than your first case. Plus I think Rain meant it as a joke seeing as how it refers to something Xite said early in the game.

[Mirhawk]

Also mirhawk, why am I not going to convince anyone to change their vote? What information do you have that makes you sure of this? Just wondering

Because the only people with unassigned votes are me and Orphen. I doubt he's going to suddenly switch to you side and I know I wont. As for the others, I doubt that they would switch their votes off you and risk ending up with a no lynch.

@Nacho
Ah sorry Nacho, I forgot you're a unfeeling robot without the capacity for humor. I know the joke wasn't funny, but I have a hard time believing that Rain was trying to covertly sway Xite's opinions with that post. To me it seemed like a criticism against Xite for not following through on her earlier statement and a joke mixed into one.

[Mirhawk]

Also, votes change with changing opinions, you saying th only reason for voting me is because you don't think any other wagon could form is invalid considering how little the amount of votes needed are.

The number of votes aren't the problem, it's the amount of time remaining. Besides I never said that was the only reason I'm voting for you. It's just a contributing factor.

Anyways, I'm going to bed now.

So VOTE: Xite91

[Mirhawk]

Well, I'm going to out and say it. I think Nacho is scum.
I think the reason you posted your case against Rain was because you were trying to pull the heat off Xite. Also, in your first post you chastised Xite for her behavior in the first few pages of the game. A feat that nobody else could do without Xite defending the point to the death, but she never even responded to you.

I will however, in the interest of fairness listen to the rest of your case against Rain. Perhaps it wasn't a distraction to pull the heat off Xite.

Also have to say I'm somewhat surprised by the mafias night kill. Seems to me they did us a bit of a favor though, now we don't have to spend half the day arguing weather shotty was trying to bus Xite or not.

[Mirhawk]

I'm here. I just want to hear what nacho has to say in his defense before I vote for him.

[Mirhawk]

Soooo, anything else any of you could think of to discuss while we wait for Nacho? Secondary suspects?

How long should we wait before we just lynch him? Is it worth it to have him replaced if he doesn't respond soon. Personally I don't think a replacement could answer the questions I want to ask him.

[Mirhawk]

Mirhawk, do you have anything against me other than "You were defending Xite"?

Yes I want to know what the second half of the case you were going to post against Rain was. All of the things you just quoted from him are things he said after you claimed there was more to your case. I want to know the original reasons.

Also I note that you've been labeling me as scum for quite some time now. It strikes me as kinda odd that you've never bothered posting any evidence against me despite having me in your scum list since halfway through day two.

[Mirhawk]

Well Nacho I asked those questions you seemed so interested in yesterday. Are you going to answer them?

[Mirhawk]

His vote on Orphen was after several posts in which they argued a point that Orphen had brought up in the first place.

Yes. He voted Orphen after Orphen brought up a point on him.

His later vote Against Xite was also clearly (as I view it) started before you posted your list with Xite in it. You say he merely was mildly suspicious of Xite, but his whole post (and it wasn't that small a post) was about what he thought she was doing wrong. It was a rather tense post too, I'm not surprised that he followed it up with a Vote.

His ISO 8 was completely dedicated to Orphen. It wasn't a small post either. But he still didn't follow it up with a vote until 7 posts later.

Umm okay I already stated that I didn't think that Rains votes were opportunistic. Also, not what I asked.

Also Nacho, you say that mine and Xite's position on your chart were reversed. Why then did you post that you had both voted for and laid out a case against Xite in a post that you had lost?

This has been explained already.

Yeah no kidding. It was explained to me almost immediately after I asked it..... By Orphen..... During day two.

Yes I want to know what the second half of the case you were going to post against Rain was. All of the things you just quoted from him are things he said after you claimed there was more to your case. I want to know the original reasons.

This is what I'm asking you now. You mentioned more than once during day two that there was a second half to your case against Rain. I want to know what it is.

[Mirhawk]

Oh yes, there's no way in hell that I'm going to retype a case that I don't even believe in anymore. There are a few new things that happened, and I need to do rereading, and redo my reads.

I will say that the fact that none of you have anything on me except for "he defended Xite" shows that the rest of you should do some rereading yourselves...

The thing I "have" on you is the fact that you keep refusing to post that damn case.

The way I look at it the fact that you defended Xite during day two

could

be excusable if you had been acting on a solid case against Rain. From what I can see, the stuff that you posted on Rain is not only not solid. But I disagree with a few key parts of it completely. However you keep alluding to a second part of the case against him that may or may not be better than the first half. I cannot see how not posting this case is helping your credibility.

Personally I don't think there ever was a second half to the case and it was only a bit of flimflam you tacked onto to make your reasoning seem more legitimate.

Does Rain's votepost look like bussing to you?

So you say that Rain wasn't bussing. But you also say that he was being opportunistic with that vote. Since we know Xite was scum, this pretty much cant be true.


Anyways, I'm done. Unless you post that case on Rain I don't really have anything else to say. Do any of the rest of you have any questions for Nacho, or should we just lynch him?

[Mirhawk]

Because there's no way in hell that I'm going to write a case on someone that I think is town.

You're asking me to write a case on someone who I think is TOWN. How is that supposed to help my credibility? I said in ISO #36 that I didn't want to pursue a case that would be thrown out if Xite flipped scum. So why are you still trying to ask me to?

It would help you credibility in my eyes at the very least. Because as things stand right now, I don't think that the case ever even existed. I think you lied about it. So what if you think Rain is town

now

. What I care about are the reasons behind your case yesterday. Whether they are still valid now is not the point, its whether they were valid yesterday.

I countered these key points. Why aren't you responding?

Because I have repeatedly told you that I DON'T find Rains votes opportunistic. Nothing you've said has swayed my opinion on that either.

Why do you want to stop discussion?

I never said that other people weren't free to talk. There was only one thing I wanted to ask you today and since you refuse to answer it I don't really have much else to say.

[Mirhawk]

"weak" and "not solid" are probably misnomers. A more accurate description would probably be opinion. At the time it was your opinion that Rain was being opportunistic. While after looking at it myself I formed the opinion that he was not. There was little in the way of hard facts in your case, it was mostly based on questions like: "Do I think Rain voted too quickly for Xite?" Or. "Was Rains vote against Orphan justified?" None of these seemed very compelling to me so I called the case weak, but that is only my opinion.

[Mirhawk]

Waiting for Nacho's case.

[Mirhawk]

Thanks

[Mirhawk]

Man I love it when I get what I wanted for my birthday.

I will of course have to reread the thread to verify this but you seem to have some valid points. (I probably won't have time to do this until Sunday though)

I'll comment more after I reread.

[Mirhawk]

Sorry this is late. I know I promised it sooner.

I'm not going to pick the case apart as you've already stated that it's not your current position anyways. But as far as I can tell you may have had an actual case on Rain. While I don't agree with all the parts of it that's beside the point. Personally I don't find that case any stronger then the one on Xite. Though depending on your viewpoint you may have been convinced that I was at least

as

strong as it.

All in all I would say that this was too little too late. Your reluctance in sharing this information, coupled with the fact that your attempt to promote this case (whether intentional or not) was at just the right time to draw fire off Xite. More or less means that while I don't really know your scum, I don't trust you to not stab me in the back neither.

Also I have to admit that I don't have any other good tells on who might be scum if it's not you. I could probably throw together a case on any one of them, but none of them would be all that strong.

[Mirhawk]

Sleepless hasn't posted in eight days, also Nacho is only willing to commit to he might post a couple cases before the deadline.

Do you guys think I should hammer or do you want to wait for those two? I'm good either way.

[Mirhawk]

Sleepless, I'm sorry for ever calling you scum. I'm a VT.

Yeah because you didn't say you were half sure he was scum in your last post.

If you have a case on me by all means roll it out. I'd love to see it.

[Mirhawk]

dang

good luck guys.

[Mirhawk]

Haha good game guys.

Gah, I had initial suspicions on Lateralus but when Sleepless switched in I pretty much dropped them. Appears that was a mistake.

Probably should have know better then to Lynch Nacho too. A veteran player probably wouldn't have defended Xite like that if he was her scumbuddy. Oh well live and learn.

@Orphen
I was kinda suspicious of you cause of how you kept pushing people on points that I felt were unimportant. like with Nacho on day 3 or Rain on day 1. Other then that I found you kinda hard to read. As for your case on Xite, I personally found it to be lacking in detail.

I'm curious as to what you guys think of how I played. Looking back I suspect I was too aggressive in slapping down other peoples theories while not posting enough of my own.