Open 226: Big Love - Game over! Town wins!

[yabbaguy]

Oh yeah, I signed up for this. Heh.

/confirm

Hi again to... quite a few of you. Now stop stalking me.

[yabbaguy]

Wait. If lovers have time to talk N0, we need to stop confirming so that they have time to talk.

Mod: Lovers have N0 talk Y/N?

[yabbaguy]

Fidelis- avatars help posts stand out. There's something to be said for being distinctive by being the only one without an avatar, but it's also kind of bland.

I want someone at some point in the future to get an avatar that says "NO, I'M NOT GETTING AN AVATAR DAMMIT." as your avatar.

Don starts off tilting scummy. That's a rolefish for a Lover, I reckon.

[yabbaguy]

Millar almost did it right. Thanks, though.

SV's reaction's a mindspinner. Are you reading?

[yabbaguy]

I'm NOT getting an avatar

[yabbaguy]

It means absolutely nothing. I came up with the name when I was 9 rather randomly, and I refused to change it. And y'know, there's no rule against talking pre-game.

Now:

quicktopics are supplied. use 'em if you got 'em. if dizzy doesn't want you talking then she'll tell you.

Are you talking to me here, don? Either way, perfectly valid question from me, I'm trying to see if it's worth stopping the other three from confirming straightaway if it means more Lover discussion.

[yabbaguy]

The y's lowercase in my name.

I'm 99% certain that accusation of don is an outright miss, but I might as well leave the 1% margin open and ask. However, trying to scumhunt before D1 even starts is actually a brilliant idea. Already your infamous meta of ridiculousness is showing.

Vote: wacka alpaca

[yabbaguy]

SV- I tried to tell a funny. You not funny.

youngminii's tells are backwards. The extroverts are often Town.

Robocopter is a hypocrite for calling me annoying. I deserve a damned medal for trying to start discussion, besides.

Zero fell for the classic MrSandman WITHOUT the period trick. Har har har.

chihuahua doesn't understand OMGUS.

millar fails at pressure voting.

I am awesome.

I will never post like this again.

[yabbaguy]

See, you're still trying to piss me off with the username capitalization, robocopter. That obnoxious cynicism is still in there. We're buddies in that sense, eh?

I'm not scum trying to blend with Town. Come to think of it, I'm not trying to blend, period. I'm with Town, but I'm still in a league of my own. I also think you're crazy and possibly scummy for turning my funny business into a scumtell where it doesn't exist. Being obnoxious and a pain in the ass doesn't mean scum.

But I still want to hear Wacka and don first.

[yabbaguy]

@youngminii: Why do you reckon that? D1's a flaming firestorm of fireworks right now, but they're all haphazard. Just about everyone would hate a wagon slammed home right now with all the unsorted malarkey. Once said malarkey is sorted, then wagon fears would be unreasonable.

Robocopter87 and yabbaguy are arguing. I think that's a scumtell.

A game of Mafia is arguing. That doesn't make one iota of sense why you're calling that A) scummy and B) why it makes BOTH of us scummy unless it's distancing.

oh boy this again?

Intriguing. When did SV do it the first time?

[yabbaguy]

*obligatory post #s are back comment*

@don-71: A patently ridiculous remark. A question to the mod does not (intentionally) solicit player reactions at all.

@all squawking at Reverse: I don't get it. It seems like we're going beserk on him for a random vote.

@Sand-83: I probably misread something along the line. Chihuahua does indeed make less sense.

@Zero-94: Scumhunting before scumhunting, long story short (gives Lovers a potential chance to see if they're being betrayed). And you know how much of a fan of that I am. Minimal benefit, but for what it's worth, I figured, let them have all the time.

@Robo-98: Stupid, but is it scummy? You seem to be equating the two.

@minii-99: Scum come in many different flavors. You seem to have a very interesting cookie-cutter approach to finding scum, but behavioral analysis is a very unreliable way to do it. I've tried it before with minimally successful results.

@Reverse-106:

Liers should be lynched as scum. Yes/No. Why?

Without context, the question is moot.

@minii-122: He explained very clearly why it's a rolefish, and I buy that. Why don't you?

@all: No policy lynches. Millar is more likely a troll (alt?), not a dunce. Policy lynching him means you got trolled hard.

[yabbaguy]

That's a V/LA. Don't panic, deadline's quite a ways out. Remember, we're the slow Mafia site.

(More later after PAR/ESP)

[yabbaguy]

@Robo-127:

I see what you are asking, selfvoting is scummy. Self votes are only useful to scum, even they use it as a last resort. But yes, scummy, they are.

I just find it more a comedic effect/attention grabbing thing. That or idiocy. It's null, I'd say.

@Millar-141: A grammatically correct sentence. You're acceptably intelligent. Your fake meta's more dead than it was before.

Now point out scum intelligently please.

---

I like this chihuahua wagon a lot, so I'll

Unvote, Vote: chihuahua

, which is still not lynch range. I think asking the audience before pursuing a suspicion is bad, and the lover rolefish is quite bad and not beneficial. I think the "big mouth" remark is cute, but AtE as well.

FOS: Shattered Viewpoint

. Just ISO him. Like, stop reading the thread and ISO him now.

[yabbaguy]

Nope. That's exactly it.

[yabbaguy]

@Zero-157:

By that logic Xite would be a better choice.

But Xite's posted content at least. I see NOTHING from SV. Granted, I see nothing from millar either, but he decides to maintain a meta of being a dumbass, even though he's CLEARLY not one.

@Robo-160:

Holy crap. That took five seconds. I don't know what Yabba was aiming for but that was extremly stupid and scummy. He hasn't done anything besides fluff and joke around. He's V/LA right now so keeping vote on Chiauahua.

COME ON. What the fuck do I have to do to convince you that's scummy, and why the fuck am I scummy for trying to scumhunt?

@Fidelis-167:

ISOing someone doesn't nearly have the same effect as voting them. An ISO may lead to a vote, or provide a reason for a vote, so asking to ISO with no reason is the same thing as asking them to see if there is a reason. Asking someone to vote without a reason is completely different. And at the time, you weren't giving a reason why even you voted.

No. It's still a pressure-FoS (so to speak), so really there is still the same effect of saying "he's scummy, but you figure it out yourself".

@Zero-168:

Infact, ISOing some other people has been quite revealing: Sanxion, Shattered, RS, Muthaa, youngminii, millar, and Sandman have all done the same. Pittbunny and Guthrie have only posted their confirmation and nothing else. I think we can safely assume that lurking here is a null tell (it's still not helpful in the least).

Mm, true. I guess the reason I got on SV in the first place was that he had

numerous

opportunities to contribute, yet hadn't done one thing.

@Don's Lover lynch question: nulltell. I think Xite's actually the lone person to call it scummy, which is curious.

@all: I've never played with millar, are his claims typically real, just usually at a bad moment, or is he usually full of bullshit?

@SV-199: There you go.

Unvoting

here, chihuahua's doing a strong job under pressure poking holes in theories. The AtE-ish "oh it sucks to be under pressure" is ridiculous and needs to die, it's obscuring my read. Stop jamming my radar, dammit.

Note: The pace of the game is probably throttling quite a few of the players right now (effect: they lurk as Zero mentioned)- so I'd avoid chatroom-esque arguments and overly substantive rants if possible. Give them a chance to breathe.

[yabbaguy]

Gotcha, Robo. I thought you were saying I was wildly contriving a case.

[yabbaguy]

Yeah, you. Consider it mock applause for posting something relevant.

Sobriety issue aside, this is not what I remember of you from our recent encounter.

[yabbaguy]

...but is he noobscum or are you policy voting again?

Oh yeah, one key difference: he's not a noob.

[yabbaguy]

@mr.sandman: I unvoted because I felt posts like this at least try to poke holes in theories. I also think that his general behavior towards millar, while extremely naive, reflects potential Town motives, if obscured by the inherent imperfections of being a newbie and not having any concrete sense for how to deal with extreme irrationality.

Perhaps chihuahua could very easily be contriving the case on millar though, naive or not, it's easy to pounce on someone who is or claims/appears to be of less-than-perfect intelligence in real life or in this game. Not discounting that. I need to have yet another look.

@chihuahua: Are you familiar with millar in any way (in other words: have you seen him play games, interact with the site, etc.)?

Also... noob != newb? Wuh?

[yabbaguy]

millar, you've done it now, and I don't think anyone really wants you back, but that's REALLY poor sportsmanship to quit whilst a wagon's being formed on you.

[yabbaguy]

Okay, come on.

Dizzy's

posted votecounts daily for a while now. We really need to stop asking for it considering she's never been in remiss.

I need millar town and Mafia meta before I can weigh in for certain. I'll hunt for it myself, but that's what I'll do sometime late, late tonight. My hunch is to say that emotional compromising and the fact that he nearly quit is scummy. Another part of me doesn't want the Day to end without input from the whole field of players, though.

More later.

[yabbaguy]

All of millar's games are pre-move.

Uhm...

Forget it. Onward.

Wait what?
I don't recall saying that

Uhm, robo? Is it really a big deal?
Yes, he prolly should have known how lovers work.
No he didn't NEED to.
For some reason this seems like a mountains out of mole-hills thing.
Is it a scumtell? Maybe. I know scum have been caught on that kind of thing before.

Which of those two stances is more likely? The fact that he's scummy for bringing the question up or not?

Yeah, that really answers it.
What's different between me and you?
As far as I know atm we're all town looking to lynch scum.
Unless you're different, otherwise we're both in the same situation and we would want day 1 to go on a while so we can get more info first.
If I explained this right then everyone should know why I'm doing this
Unvote, Vote: Robocopter

I'm lost. Simply because he has a different (albeit misguided) opinion means he's scum?

I used to overvalue this tell myself, but just because people have (sometimes radically) different approaches doesn't mean they're of different alignments.

@Sanxion-276:

I would like to think it's just Millar, but he's just so anti-town, there might be good chance he is scum.

Sounds like a vote from a fencesitting vantage point. You'd

like to think

it's millar, and there's a

pretty good

chance he's scum, but there's still that inkling doubt that prevents you from saying he's

as-sure-as-can-be

scum.

What's the dillyo?

@chihuahua-278:

[millar's]

a total noob. His fate in this game is sealed.

What... in blazes... are you saying?

@Fidelis-281: ...oh, everyone beat me to the "why aren't you voting dammit" question.

@all: Xite already outed himself as Lover ages ago, by the way. Is strongly buddying with millar, curiously. millar, yes, has claimed Lover, but has also claimed just about every other role in the game, too. If he keeps going down the list, I'm going to have some serious issues.

I'm just going to treat millar as having never claimed. Much simpler. I think it's permissible at this point to inquire if Xite is lovers with millar. I'm not sure though.

Thoughts on asking said question?

@Sandman-338: Poor thought. millar's claimed and backtracked and backtracked again, but Xite claimed it seriously. I think it was a poor time to do it, but I believe it.

Xite has a point, your opinion and Xite's don't get along at all. My eye's on you.

@Robo: How does town-millar behave? How did you see it in that post where you unvoted and abruptly dropped all your suspicions of him?

---

I'm still spewing thoughts as they come to me. Still trying to sort out the carnage that's taking place. (Again, I thought we were going to

avoid

having borderline petty chatroom-esque conversations?)

Seriously, the input of opinion is ridiculously out of balance.

[yabbaguy]

Is directing a cop in *this* game a scumtell?

don have point. chihuahua need death. yabb

vote chihuahua

.

@Xite: 1) you found something scummy in it. You're not scummy for forgetting, but now that we're clear, I find it just odd you found something scummy that neither of the debaters did.

2) I've lost track of the context on this one... I thought it had to do with you two disagreeing on something and that itself being scummy, but yea.

3) Just say it outright. You've supposedly softclaimed it a bajillion times, but I find it very difficult to trust claims in this game because millar is treating the whole formality of claiming like a piece of shit.

[yabbaguy]

1) Not if it's not scummy. Why did you think robo squawking about the question was scummy?

[yabbaguy]

You did.

Fidelis' millar vote is missing in the votecount

, granted, but we should've caught that.

[yabbaguy]

Okay, I am lovers with millar?

Even anyone else believes him please let me know...but i can reveal that my true lovers is on the prod-count

Xite's off the prod list. These quotes don't stack.

Who's bullshitting?

[yabbaguy]

Bu-bu-bu, logic! Logic says lynch Xite, and if it's a mislynch, millar dies as scum since he would be Lover! And if it isn't, Xite dies as scum!

Lynching Xite kills scum, therefore!

Unvote, Vote: Xite

!

[yabbaguy]

Yeah.

So why are you voting millar, millar?

[yabbaguy]

It takes two Days to do the process you're describing. Mine takes one.

[yabbaguy]

Policy

unvote

. Will analyze Xite's plan later.

[yabbaguy]

Well, it seems like Xite was almost in a postion to be hammered. I would have done it, but...

YES! Mission get!

[yabbaguy]

@all: What's more imperative, settling this logic debate, or hitting scum?

in other words: lynch from Xite/millar in the hopes that a liar is scum, or go off the board and hit [chihuahua, or whoever you suspect]? Frankly, I'd rather untangle this knot now instead of endgame and opt for the former. Maybe we conclude they're both Town. Will analyze more later.

[yabbaguy]

SV, you're not paying attention.

The dichotomy in question is {millar|Xite}.

[yabbaguy]

Let's get a confirm/deny from chi, first. I like where this is headed, though.

[yabbaguy]

Hi again, David. *groan*

jk.

Fidelis threw a claim down, and millar softclaimed his lover as being in the prod list, so those are both notable as well.

chihuahua and to a lesser extent SV seem scummy to me. You tell me.

[yabbaguy]

TL;DR = Too Long; Didn't Read

Either can be a reaction to a textwall that rants for ages and bores the reader.

Or, in this case, flags the "tl;dr" version for those who don't want to read, in other words, giving them the bottom line.

More later.

[yabbaguy]

Vote: chihuahua

for L-2. Ousting Treacherous Lover turns Lover pairs into makeshift Masons. If we keep them around, very good things will happen.

FOS: Switz

for reckless trichotomizing as well. I don't like people who narrow things down to "it has to be A, B, or C", and I think he's the worst transgressor in that regard.

@everyone: Focusing back in on the Xite|Millar|Chi thing, I think maybe it'd be good for those of us who haven't explicitly done so to rank these three in terms of which would be the best lynch. It might help us find a compromise that works best.

Mine is:

Xite
Chi
Millar

I know this is slightly out of whack with my probabilities that I mentioned before, but, upon further review, the case against Chi is looking better than the one against Millar, and we also have the benefit of knowing who Chi's Lover is/that Chi has a Lover.

Frankly, I think chihuahua's scummy enough to warrant a lynch, but my hunch is that he's pushing for Xite and millar as mislynches out of the deal.

Stacking on that, I believe youngminii's scumtells were contrived. The vast majority of them were nowhere near the truth.

cuz i have just finished a game with yabba and feel more confident in getting a read on him.

You are a funny guy. Hey, I thought I was supposed to be the funny guy.

@Switz: SV's ISO was egregiously full of fluff at the time, like 20ish posts or something, I forget. He hadn't made a single serious vote or even stated a suspicion when I did. Some of the other active players, while admittedly minimal as well, at least made an effort. SV had literally nothing.

[yabbaguy]

yabba - Thanks for getting back to me on SV, I'll take a look at him overNight. And exactly what in particular are you referring to with my trichotomizing? I'm sure you're right to point it out, I just want to make sure it's not something that I really do think has to be an "either-or" situation, like my discussion in my last post about Fidelis. Because if Fidelis is scum, he would have to be either the TL or a regular scum, which to me proves he's not and we can trust him.

It's just a poor question. It basically asks to conform to your scumlist and then choose a lynch order.

Too forcing. All the options have to be on the table at all times, while some gather more attention than others, all the options must be looked at. Explicitly saying "it's down between X, Y, and Z" is poor.

I won't leave out the possibility I'm misinterpreting.

[yabbaguy]

Even anyone else believes him please let me know...but i can reveal that my true lovers is on the prod-count

Muthaa,

Pittbunny

, Reverse Simplicity, youngminii

So why did Pitt die again?

More later.

[yabbaguy]

Also, please analyze the value of your heated debate before you start one that plans on spanning the length of a page and consists of nothing more than one-liners.

[yabbaguy]

Doctor WIFOM. Maybe they were scared millar was being protected if my logic checks out.

Pitt also was blatantly pressuring Xite, who was in that shortlist which was never really trichotomized until Switz asked the ill-fated question. But I need to double-check who else is scummy.

[yabbaguy]

Umm, I don't see how that question was ill-fated at all, seeing as how one of the three people on the shortlist was scum. And I wasn't the only person who narrowed it down to Xite, Millar, or Chi as our D1 lynch, and I'm pretty sure I wasn't the first to do it either. I'm just the only one who got called a trichotomizer. FoS: yabba

I'm stating a negative. Give me a positive that you were not the first to confine the Day to those three lynches, and I'll be happier.

vote: mr. sandman

iso him. its... interesting.

???

Click.

@Zajnet-608: I

loathe

playstyles like don_johnson because you can never make them out to be 100% Town, but in this case, bussing the Treacherous is a bad gamble for Mafia to make out of the gate.

@Zajnet-612:

Bussing the treacherous lover, and then trying to get the remaining 4 lovers to claim, is a great scum play.

Too bad I caught you in it.

He did no such thing. He even says Townies who

shouldn't claim

. Like, screamed it into the heavens,

don't claim

.

Like, that's absolute bullshit. Bullshitting to the maximum extent of bullshitting.

Nope, I've been leaning scum on SV all game, but your case cinches it for me.

VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

We can deal with don later.

And this was @Switz. My mind hurts now.

@don-624: Would you stop with this "yeah let's not lynch myself" baloney?

@Zajnet-642: HOLY SHIT DICHOTOMIZING.

New wagon:

Unvote, Vote: Zajnet

Someone needs to lay out a Xite and SV case for me. I see none of them as plausible. Wacka's don case is miles off the mark, IMO.

[yabbaguy]

don's not scummy.

If those Lover pairs make it to endgame, Town could be massively advantaged. Believe me, TL is a poor choice.

[yabbaguy]

And that's what "not yet" likely is, save it for endgame. That's a seriously off-the-mark, likely manipulative interpretation.

[yabbaguy]

@Switz: I'll give you one thing, I do think that after a reread SV is a much more viably scummy person, and frankly he hasn't changed much. But when I focused in on Xite/millar, there was actually concrete logic, so I thought, with Xite and millar claiming Lovers. I hadn't banked on the fact that TWO people were trying to pull asinine Town gambits (millar claimed the wrong Lover). When you focused in on the trio, it was after the fact, so there wasn't a concrete logical reason to settle in on them. By asking that question, you focused all the attention on them. Sure, one scum was on there. I just thought the other two were mislynches being pushed. Hell, you haven't even mentioned Xite and millar as of recently, are they still scummy to you?

I don't see how my case is contrived to the point of scumminess. I think it makes perfect sense.

@Zajnet: Why do

you

believe SV is scummy, assuming you still do?

@mallow: I'm having a look at your robo case, and it definitely puts him in speculative range, but the tells aren't ironclad for me. I think wishy-washy mentality isn't indicative of scum in this case because millar was such a weirdo that it probably made Robo's mind spin (for one).

[yabbaguy]

\o/

[yabbaguy]

But ugh, I should've realized his play in this game was miles off his Town meta. :\

Sorry Switz, you were dead right to keep at it.

[yabbaguy]

[yabbaguy]

Oh yeah, this was me being a failure of a Doctor. I wish I wasn't as exuberant, but I'm still able to recall those faint memories in D1 where I just took great pleasure in pissing everyone off. I couldn't resist.

No shortage of apathy, but how miraculous that it didn't drown the Town. Yay.