Newbie 980 ~ Game Over

[a2rudeboy]

Rumours abound! Allegations fly! Intrigue...intrigues!

vote:beefster

why? because my girlfriend is a vegetarian

[a2rudeboy]

Ah I see. Thanks for explaining that.

I'm going to

vote a2rudeboy

because pandas should never be sad.

we are surrounded by people trying to kill us. we dont know who they are, but they know who we are. people will die.

this does not a happy panda make.

[a2rudeboy]

FoS: Millar13

You're being a bit too cavalier for my liking.

[a2rudeboy]

I've played in real life for years...usually trying to use it as an ice-breaker activity in groups. Did it alot especially as a camp counselor...little kids love that stuff.

I played a game on here a long long time ago on an account i have no clue what the name was. It was a Dr. Who themed game, and i was a Dalek (Scum) who got found out when my partner sold me up the creek.

[a2rudeboy]

millar hasn't really done anything in response to my FoS, or to much of the mod's warning but laugh and continue on. i echo jmurph that if he isnt scum (which i still have heavy suspicion of anyway) he seems like he's going to be pretty poisonous to the town

unvote beefster; vote:millar13

although i'm agreeing with jmurph as of right now... i do have my slight suspicions about him.

[a2rudeboy]

[quote="Beefster"]S.

a2: I don't think your suspicions are entirely valid yet with as sparse of information as we have.


Do you mean my suspicions of millar or of jmurph (apologies, btw)

[a2rudeboy]

My vote at this moment is still basically a glorified FoS. I was hoping to try and prod millar into doing something other than just mod-bashing..

I'm still waiting to see what happens. If millar ends up doing something to perpetuate modkill, or if some explanin' happens, or just who knows.

just a move to get things to try and pick up a bit...seems like it worked at least a little

The worst that will happen to him at this rate is a force-replacement.

[a2rudeboy]

I'm not quite sure if my vote still stands because of the replacement, but

Unvote:Millar/Haylen

I still do want to

FoS: Haylen

but know it's largely based on my suspicions and unanswered questions about millar.

[a2rudeboy]

Sorry guys...massive power outage here. Everything just getting back up. will read and post soon, unless CSL has already replaced.

[a2rudeboy]

After reading and catching up...I still dont think we have enough to go on anyone, hopefully the new replacements will change up the pace a little bit.
Something needs to happen in the game to stir things up. I don't think the lurkers necessarily deserve to be lynched out of the game (feel the risks outweigh the benefits), and maybe they will all be replaced within a few days and the game will pick up with more enthused players.

All this being said, I'm going to

FoS: Nexus

. This is largely a gut thing, but something hasn't settled right with me with the playing style so far. I don't deny a new player the frequent asking of questions, but you've been seeming to play this angle up seemingly too much for me. Also, there was getting the drawn into the millar fight, and you are definitely one of the more frequent posters, and most of the time it is agreeing with other players or other kind of fluff. Lurking can be an obvious newbie scum tactic, but so too can be overposting.


Also, going way back... UK students get different ranked degrees, ie a 1-1 is better than a 2-1 is better than a 2-2. Just thought I'd clear that up as well.

[a2rudeboy]

What I would like Rudeboy to do the following:
* Explain why he finds Jmurph suspicion and whether or not this warrants an FoS (finger of suspicion).
* I would also like him to do the same with Millar.
* Then I want him to decide whether he still feels the same way about this playerslot now that I have taken over it.
* In his #7 Iso post, he mentions that he has unanswered questions about Millar. I would like him to put those questions to me and I will do my best to answer them as adequately as I possibly can - bare in mind that I am not Millar, despite being a budding Psychologist, I am also not a mind reader. Psychs tend not to be.

I'll start by saying my suspicion of jmuprh was a gut reaction, based with a little bit of what seemed at the time like bandwagon hopping. At the time, she had said that if she hadn't already voted for millar during the RVS she would have switched her vote at that point. I felt like it could be a possible chance for the scum to take the opportunity of someone who was finding disfavor in the town (millar) and try and get a quick lynch off. Of course, I voted for millar soon after, but this was due to his not answering my previous suspicions and the way he was behaving very obviously anti-town. Millar, felt anti-town by the way he was attacking everyone seemingly, including the mod. Provoking and encouraging arguments about whether or not we are in the RVS still seems even more scum like to me. I do still have reservations after you took over Haylen. You say you are playing by gut, and your critiques could act as either a way to promote discussion, or as a way to sort of establish yourself as the game's authority (which is easy to do as an IC, and i know you said you would separate your role from your advice, but it's easy for any newbie to mix this up when reading through your posts.)

[a2rudeboy]

Oh..to add. This is not an alt account...i only finished one game under my other, that was years ago, and I no longer remember the email or password I used to sign up.

[a2rudeboy]

As scummy as Nexus has seemed at various points in all of this, I definitely do not feel comfortable about pulling the trigger at this moment. I was rubbed the wrong way by the tirade which basically boiled down to "I'm town, don't kill me, oh i guess it's all over anyway." It kind of seemed like the equivalent of a newbie temper tantrum.

Kov- is interesting. Jumping into the game and directly putting someone at l1 seems incredibly scummy, but i think at some point can be allowed for over-excitedness in just starting to play mafia and wanting to make a bit of a splash right away. Perhaps they don't know the true implications of what they are doing.

For me, the millar/haylen combination has always been the scummiest character in the game. Each for their own reasons. Looking at those minis and the rest of millar's meta, it does look like what he did here wasn't strange based on his meta. There's the argument that he replaced out because of problems with mod, but those problems were there before our game started. He could have replaced out right away seeing who the mod was, and I wouldn't rule out the possibility of trying to deliberately sabotage the game because of the mod (ie: he comes in, pisses everyone off, scumtells, then replaces, letting whoever pick up the pieces.) FWIW, haylen

has

made efforts to move this game forward, but i still see it in sort of a trying to be the voice of reason/controlling sort of way. Also there appears to be a bit of 'i play this way, if you don't like it, tough" going on.

vote:haylen

[a2rudeboy]

Jmurph-

I'm a little unsettled by how quickly you voted Kov. You've been accused a couple of times already of bandwagon jumping, or attempting to start one, I'm just curious with all of this on you, why you would vote Kov in right away? Yes, quickly voting someone to l-1 after just joining the game is VERY scummy, and i also realise you were posting at the exact same moment I was, but still. I'm accepting for the moment Kov's newbness is ignorance in terms of what they did, which I think, yes would warrant a FoS, but definitely not a vote yet. I also think, with the town currently focused on Nexus/Haylen, this could be a bit of a distraction tactic. Which if you are scum, and one of them is scum partner (since neither are really cleared in my mind) this would be something useful to do...

[a2rudeboy]

I'm going to agree with beefster on this one. At this point in the game, there have been three people that i have suspected at various degrees throughout: Nexus, jmurph, and millar/haylen. Even though i do not view jmurph as the scummiest of the three, I do feel like haylen and nexus are mutually exclusive in terms of scum. they do seem to be clearly playing up against each other, and it's not to scum advantage at this point to try and sacrifice one of each other out in order for the greater scumgood. i feel at this point it would shake out to be haylen/jmurph or nexus/jmurph in my mind, for reason's people have already mentioned.

Following this, jmurph, you voting for Kov is both a discussion and a distraction tactic, which serves to heighten up the scum tell a little more. Yes, town focus has been moving away from Nexus, and if that's your scum partner, it just meant it worked.

I stick with my Haylen vote, because even though the reasons you mentioned in your post, I agree with Nexus in saying you do come off a bit too defensive, and that is not necessarily helpful for the town. If someone accuses you, you should defend yourself. But only the innocent are going to be able to do it with a level head.

Even if we don't lynch Nexus on day 1, it seems to me he is not for long in this world. If no lynch, and he makes it to night without clearing himself up in the minds of most, it feels like mafia will let him make it through the night because it will be easy to push him as scum the next day. Of course, saying that, I wouldn't be surprised if i just volunteered myself for a scum-push as it would be all to easy then for scum to lynch nexus in the night and then push it on me the next day.

[a2rudeboy]

(in light of Kov's post at the same time as mine)

Quick and dirty FoS: Kov

Why? In response to a few pages worth of people raising suspicion over your quick vote and wanting to hear reasoning, you respond with a largely fluff post which mostly consisted of quoting Haylen's graph. This, plus the quick vote, plus the newbscum tendency to lurk (the person you replaced), continues to put me on edge about you...

[a2rudeboy]

First off, kov- i didn't notice you're post previous to the one where you mostly quoted haylen. I'd take the FoS off for making that mistake (because you did make a defense and not just post fluff) but, wanting to quick lynch is always a rather hard line maneuver which i cannot see defending unless we have pretty hard evidence on Nexus. I think hoping to bait Mafia in to being the one to pull the trigger isn't necessarily a bad idea, just a bit misguided in this game. With so many IE/SE players, especially the ones a lot of us are worrying about at the moment, they would know to distance themselves from either having to pull the trigger or to make sure they were pretty locked down as being not suspicious, as if they were scum it would lead to a quick scumkill the next day.

Since Kov voted for nexus:
kov voted- nexus at l-1

nexus unvotes

flay unvotes me, votes haylen

jmurph votes kov

i vote haylen

nexus votes haylen (based on me jmurph flay)

beef unvotes nexus, votes jmurph


so. kov tries to get a quick lynch, but it kind of goes the opposite way as planned. no one is willing to give the vote, and instead haylen quickly picks up a couple.

[a2rudeboy]

EBWOP

your*, not you're.

[a2rudeboy]

I'm going to come clean and admit my role as Vanilla Townie.

I understand you did this in response to try and get the pressure off. But, at the same time, admitting as a VT, has never seemed to me to be a particularly pro-town move. Assuming we have power roles in this game, a VT claim only serves to take one more person out of the scum's possibilities to who they want to get rid of first.

Such a claim almost decidedly hurts town if it's true, and obviously hurts town if it is false.

And it has apparently worked in terms of taking the heat off as the Nexus bandwagon has lost a considerable amount of steam.

Thoughts?

[a2rudeboy]

Gah, joining in a second game and having to catch up to 17 pages worth of material (with a lot of walls) and the added pressure of a deadline in two days has really frazzled my mind here.

Not really much to go on right at this moment.

@flay- i know you said storms were holding off the rest of your haylen comment, is there still more to go on this? i feel like a couple of people are waiting on this right now.

@zaj- i'm also waiting to hear from you right now. you say you feel nexus v haylen is town-town, in my mind they have been two of the most suspect players throughout this game. it seems like a lot of people happen to think this as well. we're starting to get a little down on time, so if you have information why the two we have spent most of the time hunting after are town, now would be a good time to let us in on that.

[a2rudeboy]

Oh, and another thing.

Although my rule is that I don't like to vote for anyone because of deadline (game falls too easily into scum's advantage near deadline, hard-lined as it is i would rather not lynch than mislynch at least this early in the game, I like to go by the maxim "if i wouldnt lynch them 4 days before deadline, i wouldn't lynch them 4 hours before"), I would possibly be interested in an earl lynchwagon at the deadline. Part of this is because, as others have stated, been acting a lot more scummy as of late. But also, I am not comfortable with him going inactive again and being force replaced. If that happened, or if anyone gets replaced for that matter, we'll have less than half the people we started with, and that just plays into all sorts of mayhem.

[a2rudeboy]

Please point to the buddying with Kov?

[a2rudeboy]

So, I just did a quick iso on Kov. Things do seem pretty scummy here. There isn't really much content to the posts as a whole, usually either defending/attempting to defend the erratic voting process, or kind of flippant non game related comments ("quick and dirty, that's the way i like it" "i wouldnt have that level of dedication" "i hate this game" etc). They seem to be doing a pretty good job of posting enough to avoid the lurker tag, but not really adding anything to the game when they do post. Also, something really really rubbed me wrong about the comment of "I'm going to hold my vote, and once i vote, I won't change." Other people feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I can't possibly see where someone being unwilling to change their vote could come across any way other than scum.

@jmurph- You may have just missed this post earlier, but I was asking where you saw evidence of my buddying with Kov? Also, I realise you stated earlier that your vote for Kov was mainly trying to get him to talk and get info from him. Since the time you took your vote off, I don't think he's gotten anything but scummier. Thoughts?

Since my initial doubts to Kov were only made worse:

unvote haylen.

vote:kov

[a2rudeboy]

@jmurph- Thanks. Yes, I can see where that comes across as being coaching to an extent. I think it was more of me voicing my own thought process out loud. Something about your post that bothered me a little bit though, is you said you hoped it was just another newbie mistake. I'm not sure why you would say this...surely any mistake that may be a scum slip is good for the town, no?? Unless it's a scum partner. In which case, you seem to be doing a bit of the apologizing you criticized me of yourself.

Kov came in for BagSquad. Now there's not much to analyze him, but only four posts. I know some of us had our doubts pre-replacement, as BS was pretty much a lurker who posted a couple of times, no real content, odd voting. So, if we take the role as it has been played so far, both incarnations have come under thoughts of being scummy, haven't really posted a whole lot contributing. This could be as easily explained as two newbs, but it seems it's at least a pretty good chance that it could be explained better by two inexperienced newbscum.

[a2rudeboy]

@Kov- I wasn't directly quoting, i was paraphrasing. If you think about it in the context of my larger point (mostly fluff, joking posts) there isn't much difference between "That is some level of dedication" and "I wouldn't have that level of dedication". Yes, we could split hairs here and say the latter tries to portray you in a more negative light because it assumes you wouldn't care enough about the game to do something like that. It wasn't the point here. And yes, I know they were jokes. But you've posted about 20 times if i recall, and sure a couple of jokes are alright, but when you aren't putting down much content to begin with, it makes me wonder.

Actually, if you read a little more closely (like you are accusing me of not doing) what i said was:

First off, kov- i didn't notice you're post previous to the one where you mostly quoted haylen. I'd take the FoS off for making that mistake (because you did make a defense and not just post fluff)

but, wanting to quick lynch is always a rather hard line maneuver which i cannot see defending unless we have pretty hard evidence on Nexus

.

And then went on to explain a bit more why I wasn't taking off the FoS.

@jmurph- I'm still not quite following you on the point of saying mine was a "I'm not voting now or am I going to". If it's in reference to me talking about Kov, please show the examples (I cannot find them in either of the two posts you referenced earlier). If this is in reference to my statement of unwillingness to hammer dsis or vote anyone i dont have suspicions for just on the basis of the town getting a lynch, I still refuse to see how that refers to me. Or are you possibly referring to what Kov said in regards of not changing his vote? I'm confused on this point.

Oh, and to answer your earlier question. True, I stated I am not a supporter of lynching solely to lynch near the deadline. I did say I would consider that if it was Earl, because, I dont want to see another spot get replaced in the game. On top of that, I said i would support lynches if i found the person to be scummy, and i do have my suspicions about Earl.

[a2rudeboy]

I've been prodded again. Which is to say I haven't posted in a while.

My main scum targets are still my main targets
I haven't seen anything worth posting about lately, other than some bickering between nexus and haylen.

Anyone have some questions of me to ask?

[a2rudeboy]

.

a2rudeboy:

Why do you only post when you're prodded, lately? Who do you think could be scumbuddies with each other as of this posting? Could you reiterate who your top scum choices are, please?

[/quote

Flay- I haven't been posting only when prodded as of late, if you notice I was quite active between pages 9-11. I hadn't seen anything recently really worth commenting on. Although, it seems like the game is pretty much revolving around the same 3-4 people posting, with everyone else dropping in for the occasional posting to avoid prods.

My top scum choice can be seen by where my vote is at this moment: Kov. I moved my vote from Haylen for a couple of reasons. Kov's refusal to vote until a specific date, and then his statement that he would not change it, struck me as very scummy. Also issues I had with the lack of content in his posts... but these issues have already been discussed. Haylen has seemed scummy to me for a lot of the game, but at this point near lynch, it doesn't seem as much so, and it may have been a bias based on walls and post frequency, along with seemingly wildly shifting changes in mood (but, if she's bi-polar..can't fault for that). Regardless, if Haylen is driving content here in one form or another, I've seen how a game can quickly stagnate once that disappears.

I am, however, at this point not going to reiterate who my scumbuddy suspicions / top choices are (other than where my vote is). I have before mentioned my top pairing on day 1, only to have one flip town when lynched and the other flip town during NK, This lead to a very easy quick lynch on me the next day (I was town)

[a2rudeboy]

In regards to Haylen. Yes i feel the game is stagnating to an extent where it is the same couple of people posting most frequently. I also believe that for a couple of pages, we were caught up in a debate that mostly boiled down to circular logic and even just plain bickering. Right now, I both don't find Haylen scummy, nor do I wish to lose her scumhunting/ability to question and move the game forward.

Right now, I feel like there is some tunneling going on, perhaps unwarranted, towards myself. Mostly by Flay and Kov. I have already discussed my issues with Kov. But i feel like there's a couple of things the town needs to look at.

Not Voting: Kov and Jmurph are currently not voting with 2 days to deadline. We already know Kov's reasoning, and he's stated he'll be voting tomorrow and his vote won't change once he's made it. It seems to me like this is voting close enough to the deadline to try and avoid suspicion, but while also getting to pull it off as weighing all the options, making a careful vote, etc. This was something we came after earlier. I fully believe Kov has had the intention to vote Haylen all along, and is trying to appear cautious to get the scent off the trail. Of course he wouldn't have to change his vote at this point, because it would lynch Haylen. As for Jmurph, I'm hoping to get a vote down from them somewhat soon. Not having a vote down at this point seems scummier and scummier by the moment, at least for me.

Also, Kov. I made that statement a while ago...I question why you are just now bringing up your issues with it, at the same time that other suspicions have been raised. Notably by Flay. Hmm, again.

Let's take a look at some other people, who i feel are doing a pretty good job at staying under the radar right now.I feel if i should be under attack for lack of productivity, so should these people.

Beefster- Taking a look at iso. 32 posts. At least as active as i am. 11-13, 17, 22 all seem to be pretty content-driven, well-argued out posts in my opinion. 23-31 (especially from 28 onwards) seem to fall into either bickering with Haylen, or one-liners that don't do anything besides accuse or just reaffirm what someone else has already said.

Zaj- Doing an iso here pulls up even less useful information. Posts about once every day or two, just enough to avoid prod. Never seems to have much to say...lots of gut reactions without anything much to back it up. Made a splash about claiming nexus v haylen was town-town, and we needed to refocus, but hasnt offered up anything in terms of helping us do that. Very periphery player.

Earl- Also been prodded twice. I dont find actions to be as scummy as the ones above, simply because it seems from reading iso, most of the posts have a decent amount of content.


Note: I did not just say the above were my main scum targets.

[a2rudeboy]

Kov- your last post makes absolutely no sense. Are you answering haylen's question towards beefster for them? Or are you just making another one of your flippant, humorous remarks?

[a2rudeboy]

@flay-I claim tunnelling because the questions you are asking of me could just as easily been asked of other players (and weren't).

What made things suspicious, is that Kov brought back up the point of my nolynch belief nearly a week after I had first made it. He didn't focus on this in the first set of attacks he laid on me (which were mostly about my not paying attention to details), which seemed at the time to be mainly a slight bit of OMGUS, even though he did say he thought i was mostly pro-town. That he brings it up again after the point where you were starting to question my play a little, seems like an opportune time to start a possible wagon.

Flay, I'd like to know what your opinion is of Beefster and Zaj right now?

[a2rudeboy]

@Kov- If it makes any difference, my view of you will be as scummy regardless if you hammer, vote someone else, or continue to hold your vote. I was trying to get a reason for not voting yet out of JMurph, which I did, and am satisfied with.

@Flay-If we were a week out of deadline, would your vote go to Haylen or Zaj, ie, who do you think is the scummiest? Also, if we operate under the assumption of (which I dont necessarily believe) that they are both scum, which is better to keep in the game? I guess what I'm boiling it down to, is there enough reason for us to try and see if anyone would support a lynch other than Haylen?

[a2rudeboy]

@Mod- Earl's close to another prod/ force-replace, yes? If that happens, would a replace happen before the deadline? Is there a possibility the deadline would get pushed back?

[a2rudeboy]

@ Haylen, what are your reasons for putting me in that trio of "one of these three is certainly scum" list?

My vote on Kov is not helping the town at this point, but I'll be back on Day 2.

Out of Zaj and Haylen, I find Zaj far more scummy. I would also rather lynch a lurker than someone who I see as providing to the game, if erratic or circular at times.

unvote

vote: Zaj

[a2rudeboy]

EBWOP- Also putting Zaj at l-1.

[a2rudeboy]

@ Haylen- You aren't even in my top three scum possibilities right now. If I wanted you gone, I would have hammered a while ago (or kept my vote on when i joined the initial wagon)

I'm interested to see where jmurph acts now, as I don't see anyone from either wagon jumping this close to deadline.

[a2rudeboy]

@ Haylen

Haylen has seemed scummy to me for a lot of the game, but at this point near lynch, it doesn't seem as much so, and it may have been a bias based on walls and post frequency, along with seemingly wildly shifting changes in mood (but, if she's bi-polar..can't fault for that). Regardless, if Haylen is driving content here in one form or another, I've seen how a game can quickly stagnate once that disappears.

In regards to Haylen. Yes i feel the game is stagnating to an extent where it is the same couple of people posting most frequently. I also believe that for a couple of pages, we were caught up in a debate that mostly boiled down to circular logic and even just plain bickering. Right now, I both don't find Haylen scummy, nor do I wish to lose her scumhunting/ability to question and move the game forward.

I view your scumhunting abilities as beneficial to the town in the course of this game. Also, I realise my earlier votes/reasoning may have been based primarily on your frequent walls of posts (see our previous exchange). Further game experience on this site has led me to notice this bias and the negative effect supporting or leading a lynch based on this fact primarily can have in a game.

[a2rudeboy]

@ Kov... called it!