Open 236 - Pamplona Mafia (C9++) Game Over

[Zajnet]

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik RVS does do crap. Eventually in it someone will make a slip. It's also a fun way to start the game.

[Zajnet]

Wouldn't we know there's a serial killer if there are 2 kills in a night?

Vote: yabbaguy

Either the SK or the mafia could have chosen not to shoot to WIFOM us.

[Zajnet]

@Zajnet: How do people slip during RVS (specifically)? Is it a cause of the random votes?

The random phase is never actually random. After a bit of RVS, somebody will call somebody else out for something and real discussion gets started. Often RVS slips can help nail scum to the wall.

[Zajnet]

UNVOTE: drmyshottyizsik

[Zajnet]

I was unvoting my random, once we get some more talk I'll figure out who to vote for. At the moment I don't know who's scummier than Dr M.

[Zajnet]

the oppertunistic vote, so im kind of a bias voice.

@ NS It's not that hard!!! G & H is the only one who ever spells it out though

@ NS It's not that hard!!! G & H is the only one who ever spells it out though

@ NS It's not that hard!!!

@ NS

The irony is amusing.

[Zajnet]

The Fonz has a solid point there, Ythan. What were you hoping to accomplish with your question?

[Zajnet]

The Fonz has a solid point there, Ythan. What were you hoping to accomplish with your question?

Nice contribution.

Thanks.

I'll stack Ythan's meta of being noticeably more bitter and hostile as scum on top of the laundry list of everything else stated.

Posting a single game where I act this way as scum is a poor attempt to use meta when I do act exactly the same way as town. All you're doing is showing I act a certain way, a certain way everyone knows I act. Not really how to use meta.

This is exactly true. I really, really don't like yabba's use of Meta there, but it could just be that he doesn't know that you do that as town. IDK. Either way it looks bad for him.

[Zajnet]

FOS: Zajnet

though for fence-sitting. You're saying stuff about how "it looks bad for me" and "you don't like it", but you point these suspicions out as if from an omniscient point of view without you actually calling it scummy. It hurts my mind that you'd talk to Ythan almost as if in conversation though.

I hate to bring up my own meta, but I do that in every game. That's just my play style.

I'm going to be V/LA for about 48 hours

, then you can expect a nice big Wall'0 Text from me.

V/LA noted. ~~NS

[Zajnet]

At Netlava: Zajnet is the worst active lurker.

Umm, do you know what active lurking is? I've been straight up lurking because I've been out of town. Active lurking would be if I was posted on a regular basis, but with no content. Anyways, expect more later today.

[Zajnet]

PROX!!!!!!!! HI!

What do you think of what's been happening since you last posted? I really don't like how you take the time to post but don't even comment on stuff. That's called active lurking, Fonz, in case the explanations didn't clarify enough.

Not knowing what active lurking means isn't a scum tell, but I think some of the other things Fonz has been saying could be. For example, his case on Beefster seems very contrived.

[Zajnet]

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

[Zajnet]

Well, when I got back from V/LA, I did a quick reread, and nothing really jumped out at me as needing much analysis other than what I addressed.

[Zajnet]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the active lurking topic because I don't consider fencesitting and being V/LA to be active lurking. The beginning of games is always hard for me analytically, so I fencesit a lot, but I do provide opinions and content.

[Zajnet]

Netlava - 3 - ekiM, drmyshottyizsik, Prox
Ythan - 3 - Alduskkel, Beefster, yabbaguy
Alduskkel - 2 - kyle99, Ythan
Beefster - 2 - Dry-fit, The Fonz
drmyshottyizsik - 2 - Netlava, Zajnet

We are a divided town.

[Zajnet]

I hate having my vote on someone w/ a LOA.

unvote; vote beefster

Oh hey Zajnet, could you please change your vote to someone who is scum? Or at least a different scum? That'd help.

Shotty's probably going to flake out.

Sure.

UNVOTE: VOTE: beefster

[Zajnet]

Sorry everyone, my house got hit by lightening, and I just got a new computer today.
So Prox why the vote on beef?
And Z why did you obey Prox like he was God? And why did you vote beef as the "real or other" scum?

Sucks man.

I obeyed him because I didn't think you were going to get lynched and because I have a solid town read on Prox atm. I voted Beef because I don't really have any other strong reads at the moment, but I am unwilling to vote for Ythan or Ald because I have gut reads that they're both town. The Fonz jumps out at me, but I don't know if that's so much scummyness or just a personality clash. I find net somewhat scummy, but as Prox had just jumped off of him, and me jumping onto net would negate the point. Beef is thus left with my vote.

[Zajnet]

What do you think of me?

I think you're lurking, but you seem to have a legitimate excuse. If you resume lurking that badly again though, I will vote for you.

[Zajnet]

Sorry everyone, my house got hit by lightening, and I just got a new computer today.

Seems legitimate. Who would lie about something like that?

[Zajnet]

I'll bring the Hammah if that's alright with y'all.

[Zajnet]

I have no counterclaim.

[Zajnet]

D = doc
DD = doc + backup doc
DDD = doc + doc
DDDD = doc + doc + backup doc
DDDDD = doc + doc + doc

In no situation are there two nurses. If someone counterclaims (which theres really no reason not to because nurse isn't really that powerful), then we lynch shotty, if he flips nurse then our vig hits who CCd him.

[Zajnet]

Ok, but on the off chance we do have a Mason trio, don't claim yet.

Only a nurse/backup doc should counterclaim.

[Zajnet]

I'm willing to hammer this lurker. God I sound like wagoning scum right now (but I'm not)...

[Zajnet]

Sorry, I just have almost no faith in claims anymore. He could easily claim cop or doc knowing he would die anyway just to draw out the reall one so they would be nk'd.

A) there can be two cops or two docs in this game.
B) A Cop/Doc trade for a scum is good for the town.

[Zajnet]

Sorry guys, but I'll be V/LA until Wednesday.

Fish Camp for college.

Noted. ~~NS

[Zajnet]

Known for sure: VVCT???
If drmyshottyizsik is telling the truth: VVCDDT?
At this point I think a backup roleblocker, mason pair, or cop should claim, or if there's a backup doc that hasn't counterclaimed drmyshotty yet then they should claim now too, because any of these claiming would mean that drmyshotty would have to be scum.

[Zajnet]

That puts me at L-2. I don't see a point to claim yet because I still don't see a solid case against me, but don't lynch me without letting me claim.

[Zajnet]

I don't see a legitimate case against me, so I have nothing worth responding to regarding that. I would like everyone currently voting for me to post their own unique reasons for voting me, more than just one sentence, and I will tell you who is scum on my wagon and why, then if people still want to lynch me, I'll claim.

[Zajnet]

Thanks for the answer. I am not stalling. I know that I'm not scum, so I can assume that there are scum on my wagon. Analyzing my wagon is thus the best way for me to scumhunt right now.

[Zajnet]

OK, massclaim is a bad idea.

Kind of waiting on Zajent to respond to stuff..

What do you want me to respond to?

[Zajnet]

Notes about my wagon:

I wish I didn't believe drmyshotty's claim because he's the most bandwagonning scummy player I've ever seen.
Most probably yabba is town, he seems to be actively scumhunting, and has legitimate reasons for voting for me.
Very much on the other hand, Netlava, I find particularly scummy, especially this sentence:

Also, as a general note, we are close to lylo. With 3 scum in the game and 8 players left, after a mislynch and a NK, then it's 3 scum remaining in a 6 player game. So we need to be careful about our votes.

I think this is an attempt to misrep the situation to get townie points, as we are not "close" to lylo, we are at lylo.
Granted, if the vig hits scum tonight, we won't lose, but we are still technically at LyLo today, plus, he doesn't mention the vig at all in that sentence.

[Zajnet]

Revelation.

Known for sure: VVCT???

If drmyshottyizsik is telling the truth: VVCDDT?

We get that T from assuming that there is no serial killer, which seems reasonable. Chances are high we'd have seen more kills than we have if there were one. However, this assumption tells us more than that there is one T. It tells us that either there is one T, or there are three Ts. That is, the set-up is either:

VVCTTT? where the ? is not a T or a V

or

VVCDDT? where the ? is not a T, a D, or a V.

What were the a priori probabilities for one T vs 3 Ts? 5% and 27%. It's roughly five times more likely that a random set-up has 3 Ts than 1 T. That's enough for me to want to lynch.

I said yesterday that Nurse seemed like a bad scum claim, but this was based on the idea that the full set-up would come out eventually and catch him out. However it's quite possible dr just didn't think that far ahead and went for the fakeclaim that would at least delay his death, didn't require night actions, and was less likely to be countered. Also, we're in pseudo-LYLO on D2 and massclaim is not going to happen because there's a vig out there, possibly he could have figured this was likely and gone for it for that reason.

Add to that dr's major scumminess throughout the game, and at this point I'm thinking lynching dr is our best move today, unless someone can explain to me why the above isn't correct.

You have a valid point. I guess if drmy flips town, the vig can hope to save us.

[Zajnet]

EBWODP: UNVOTE: VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

[Zajnet]

jerrymandering is your case, wow. You are lucky I'm an ap student and know wtf that is.

What is the point of this post? You're on semi-V/LA, and presumably have a limited time to post, and you choose to post this?