Mini 1018ÔÇôÔÇôDNA Evidence (Game Over)

[Prox]

Oh, hello, shotty. I don't suppose you've finished any games yet?

[Prox]

Are they on your wiki?

[Prox]

It would help time go by.

Go ahead and post the links and I'll have it done in a day or two.

I guess I'll make me one too.

[Prox]

It's pregame, but I'll remember that.

Now, links to your games, please?

Also, questions (for everyone):

1. How would you define your playstyle?
2. Do you plan to play differently this game than in your other games, or will you be sticking to your meta?
3. Do you know your win/loss record here on MS? What is it?
4. Can you link us to any of your past games?
5. What is your opinion on lurking?
6. How active will you be this game?
7. Are you scum? If so, who are your scumbuddies?
8. Which people here do you know and/or have played with before?
9. How large will your posts normally be?
10. What do you think players should do when a thread is open for pre-game chat?

[Prox]

Sources say you have no wiki, shotty.

[Prox]

I could make the wiki for you if you give me links to

all

of your games.

[Prox]

Are you sure?

Try C/P-ing it onto a Word Document or something for when it gets deleted. Make sure you see a confirmation that your wiki is posted before giving up.

If that doesn't work, ask someone competent, like a Forum Moderator [not a game one].

[Prox]

Thanks.

Meta is like how your playstyle was like in past games. For example, if you've always self voted at L-1 in your past games, it is part of your meta and one can reason that you will likely do this in your current and future games. When you break your pattern, like by not self-voting when you usually do, this is usually you changing your meta.

The Scum are the minority that the Townies [the majority] wish to eliminate. A scumbuddy is a ally of a player who is Scum and is almost always also Scum.

When you say overanalyze, do you mean that you often think too hard about people and WIFOM [see the Mafiascum wiki to look up terms you don't know]?

Your avatar made me think you were someone else for a second...

I've been meaning to join debate.org for a while. I didn't know they played mafia there. Do you know of the debateapedia? It's helped me a lot in school since I've found it.

Oh. I should answer my own Q's.

[Prox]

Also, questions (for everyone):

1. How would you define your playstyle?

A work in progress. One day it'll be solid, but not (too) aggressive. I hope the two don't contradict.

2. Do you plan to play differently this game than in your other games, or will you be sticking to your meta?

I'll be playing better than my last games, hopefully, but probably not very differently.

3. Do you know your win/loss record here on MS? What is it?

I've got one ongoing game besides this one. I'm a dead townie there so you could get some insight, at least.

4. Can you link us to any of your past games?

Yes, but not right now. Atm I am on a mobile (therefore terrible) browser

5. What is your opinion on lurking?

It's stupid. Only scummy when done in a scummy way, but I won't like you if you do it, either way. Regardless, Lynch All Lurkers is antitown and borderline scummy.

6. How active will you be this game?

Excessive until...School starts.

7. Are you scum? If so, who are your scumbuddies?

Is the answer to this question "No"?

8. Which people here do you know and/or have played with before?

Shotty. I have mixed feelings about him. You'll see.

9. How large will your posts normally be?

Big. But I take care to make them either not too big, easy to read, or have a concise summary below them.

10. What do you think players should do when a thread is open for pre-game chat?Engage in pregame chat. I think, an early and casual RS (preferably a RQS and not an RVS) can help get the game off to a good start before it starts.

***

@zwet: I'll resent you for that.

[Prox]

Meta is like how your playstyle was like in past games.

That's what I thought. Then I don't really have a meta.

Sure you do. We'll see.

The Scum are the minority that the Townies [the majority] wish to eliminate. A scumbuddy is a ally of a player who is Scum and is almost always also Scum.

I assume that this refers to players that play stupidly, not mafia members. We have a few of those at debate.org/

What you're thinking of are VIs, or villiage idiots. The scum and their scumbuddies are the bad guys. The townies are the good guys.

When you say overanalyze, do you mean that you often think too hard about people and WIFOM [see the Mafiascum wiki to look up terms you don't know]?

I did WIFOM when I first started to play, since then I've toned it down. Occam's Razor and all that jazz.

I've been meaning to join debate.org for a while. I didn't know they played mafia there.

Ya, it's actually almost my turn to mod another small game. I actually prefer modding to playing. There are a lot of members, but only about 50 actives. it's a fairly tight-knit online community.

[/quote]

Sounds nice. I'll join soon.

[Prox]

prox, your questions seem mostly pointless. You're asking us to give you constraints on ourselves that you seem to be hoping to be able to use against us later on, which I find scummy. Your question 7 and 8 are typical from scum in the beginning of games, and 3 and 10 are just useless.

The reason for the Q's are meant to incur discussion and then accusations, leading to more discussion and time better spent than on Random votes. Not to speed up or hurt the Town's Day but to make it more accurate.

@shotty: No. Playing mafiascum is supposed to be fun, remember?

[Prox]

Vote: Prox

This is what I'm talking about. More and more discussion leads to more and more validity until a case valid enough for lynching occurs and hopefully scum is dead. RQS's work and are protown.

But if you disagree, idc.

[Prox]

Your question 7 and 8 are typical from scum in the beginning of games.

Also, links, please?

[Prox]

I'm not begging him to answer questions; I'm defending my actions.

[Prox]

Raccoons scream when you try and catch them. It sounds hilarious.

O.O

Metaphor or random fact?

[Prox]

If only everyone were so lucky. We've got these deer we can't do anything about and they tear up anything that flowers or bears fruit.

[Prox]

I wonder if we'll be skipping the RVS.

I find it distressing to know that my style of humor is the same as the mafia's. And confusing.

G2g for now, but I'll be back.

[Prox]

Also @kat- Even though Prox's questions are mainly about meta, why didn't you answer the questions that weren't? I find it odd to refuse to answer all of a set of questions when only some don't apply to you.

Knowing that they all have little point, he probably didn't want to go through the effort of picking and choosing. This is the pregame: not much effort is really supposed to be necessary.

Almost everyone has posted. Shouldn't D1 start right about now?

[Prox]

vote shotty

I didn't forget.

[Prox]

VOTE: Prox

For making me read through a bunch of crap when it was only pre-game.

The only difference from then and now is that post by the mod and the necessity of re-votes.

[Prox]

We've already started. o.O

unvote; vote don_johnson

Mysterios? Do you think that's punny?

[Prox]

What is the Y and N for?

Preview Edit:

Ah, things just got interesting.

So have you already half-scanned?

[Prox]

Yes and No about what?


Also, voting zwet is stupid. He just claimed cop. You want to lynch him now?

He can't have done so for no reason. He seems to be expirienced, and knows early claims are antitown.

If he's scum and lying, then he is taking too huge risks too soon and soon enough we'll have him.

Obviously, NO ONE SHOULD COUNTERCLAIM RIGHT NOW IF THEY ARE COP.

Its possible that another limited cop is out there, for starters and we'll have 2 claimed cops D1. Useful.

If there's a full cop out there, then zwit is a ballsy lying scumbag who should only be counterclaimed when a sufficient # of claims are done.

I do hope zwet can explain further soon. The suspense would kill me.

[Prox]

Sufficient # of scans*

[Prox]

Ok this is awesome!

Zwet, don't you think it would be smart to go ahead and announce the person you targetted so that if you die we're still all able to be in the loop?

[Prox]

That would be...3 confirmed roles right off the bat if the other guy claims now.

If he claims later...then its one new role per Day. If zwet isn't NKed.

Since zwet has already claimed, then it makes sense for the other guy to do so, too. Like 2 innocent childs and a free scan.

[Prox]

much better, thanks.

[Prox]

?

We need to refocus. The RVS should be over by now.

unvote

I'll be rereading the thread now.

[Prox]

I've got very little right now.

Snowbunny seems to have only focused on one of the players who confirmed and left. Wierd.

FoS

I guess I'll start with that.

vote snowbunny

**

zwet: what about our other Q's?

[Prox]

Sorry, I had a flashback ^^

unvote; vote doombunny

Snow, doom; you get how I confuse the two.

Why did you only focus on that one person who confirmed and left?

I'm only trying to reason what we should do in this situation. If zwet announces his scan target, then at least the other guy will know the deal. That way, if zwet is killed, his scan doesn't beome worthless. If the other guy claims, we'll have 3 confirmed townies or 2 and a found scum. If we do nothing, there is little benefit unless one of the three is brought to L-1 today.

I can get the not claiming part, but I don't understand the waiting until the claim to announce the player scanned.

But whatever- that's zwet's and his associate's choice.

[Prox]

I think it's half and half?

I've explained my votes. Doombunny tunneled.

[Prox]

I don't think...Ah, I'll wait till Korashk says something.

[Prox]

Unvote, cause of his claim

Late.

unvote; vote shotty

[Prox]

Prox that was an

awfully

eager vote, it was late because I slept on the idea and just got up

Eager. Right.

Why did you have to sleep on the idea before unvoting him?

[Prox]

Because I like thinking and not jumping on people on a whim, also goes for jumping off of people

Whims are fine at the start of the game.

You showed that you believed zwet's claim and yet did not unvote. I do not understand.

[Prox]

That's silly. It makes sense for the other half-cop to claim now that zwet has. I'm being accused of rolefishing on this, but no one has told me why this opinion is wrong.

How am I testing the waters to see who would make a good mislynch? I'm trying to evoke responses to get the game moving.

If my vote for someone has a weak reason, shouldn't I change it anyways? And how is it scummy to do so anyway? Isn't voting at a whim the

same

as voting for little reason?


Oh crap. More metaphors.

[Prox]

They incur responses.

[Prox]

I was thinking I was the one targetted by zwet thx to our altercation earlier. That might partially account for my thoughts on what he should do next.

Zwet stated that he would announce his target after the claim.

I thought that the confirmation of 3 roles could help us achieve a more accurate lynch, and more likely that the announcement of the scan's target would also help the town without revealing the other half cop. I don't see the Doc as a surefire role in this game.

If eagerness at the start of Day 1 is scummy, next game I play I'll just lurk. Most my statements so far Today have been created to incur discussion that can be analyzed. That is my priority on Day 1.

My vote on shotty wasn't because he had unvoted late, but for the suspiciousness of his voting pattern all in all. I didn't explain my vote thouroughly because it was still only an early vote, as strong as an FoS.

There; I answered several Q's in the preceding. G2g sorry.

[Prox]

My plan was more based on zwet announcing his target in case of his death, and speculative of the possibility of his peer claiming- as he said he was not going to announce his target until the claim. This made me speculate, perhaps wrongly (?), about the benefit of having 3 confirmed roles on Day 1.

I'm not as excited for this game as I am eager for it to progress (and begin to get fun).

My eagerness has nothing to do with zwet's roleclaim and my response to it- its just me reacting to a new situation.

Also, sorry about the quality and format of my posts: I'm on mobile.

[Prox]

Ah...both accusations are undesirable :S

[Prox]

I'm sorry. I've gotten a little bored with this.

I would defend myself, but the defense would only involve an admittance of my failure as a thinker and then stubbornness to admit it. If the gist of that isn't good enough, then obviously I need more votes.

I think I could work myself up to do a pbpa of everyone who matters within now and Sunday. I need a Desktop computer to do this, and that explains the wait.

Sorry for the inactivity. My brooding over my lynchworthy mistake and a lack of action in the thread dissasuaded me. But flaking would only annoy me forever. I'll take whatever happens.

[Prox]

Actually, now that I look at it, I haven't done anything worth getting lynched over.

All I did was

1. Ask questions.
2. Make weak votes (at the start of Day 1).
3. Act eager for progress (?)
4. Rolefish

And all accusations can be refuted and actions explained, easily enough. In due time...

[Prox]

So I messed up. There. I said it. At first I ignored the possibility of a doc, then I tried to stay consistent, and then this. Lynch me if you must, but I hope I can change your minds.

My weak votes were weak because I was in the searching phase of finding scum. I like to vote for a lot of players at the start of the game to provoke suspect responses such as wagons or fence sitting or opportunism from other players or scummy responses by the attacked themselves, like overreaction and OMGUS. From there I move forward and develop reads.

All other accusations seem stupid and WIFOMy to me and I'll need more pressure to care about them.

[Prox]

I don't see the attack on Korashk.

[Prox]

Thoughts:

Shotty is most scummy. My vote for his late unvote wasn't very weak. More on that soon.

Sorry for my jerk posts; I was completely lost (I got ninja'd when the game started, then I was clueless about what was going on).
Now, back to the game:
Prox: I do think you are being waay too overeager. I'll

unvote

because RVS is over.
I'll reread, and post something more meaningful later (maybe tomorrow).

Pacman was strange here. Why didn't he vote for me?

Ah. G2g now. More on shotty later.

[Prox]

You just defended shotty before I could even attack him.

[Prox]

And duh eagerness and quick votes are entertwined. It was main reason I got called eager in a scummy way.

[Prox]

Oh I forgot to say this:

I do not claim at L-1 except under special conditions

I don't know what those conditions are, but they'll happen and I'll know when it does.

[Prox]

You're overly paranoid?

I need a computer to post an attack.

[Prox]

Today seems like it will end badly.

[Prox]

xD

Wth?

[Prox]

Oh, and lynch at Page 8 is bad idea. This would hurt the town for the rest of our adventure.

[Prox]

Weird. Even the structure of my posts feel different. I guess this is just not my Day. Sigh.

My vote because of Shotty's late unvote was weak in itself but was validated by its response.

Recap:

Unvote
Vote: zwetschen

WTF!! did you just soft claim?

Here, shotty begins to act fishy by responding to a cop claim by voting for him. The difference between this and Korashk's vote is twofold.
1. Korashk, though badly, gave an explanation for his vote. It was reflective of Korashk's history of an off-site scummer (yes you do have a meta).

2. Korashk was quick to unvote zwet after he had clarified, and was able to explain his vote with another example of popular off-site game theory. Shotty, on the other hand, continued to vote for the claimed cop until he was finished role fishing out the cop's other half.

I want to know if he knows who his partner.

Why?

Unvote, cause of his claim

Here he unvotes late. He says that the reason he did so was because he liked to do things slowly and with thought. The only issue with this excuse is that it is a lie. Shotty had spontaneously voted for zwet with little thought at all. Why would shotty lie about this if he were town? What does he have to hide?

And that's my view of the shotty case.

[Prox]

Korashk isn't even remotely scummy.

[Prox]

Sigh.

[Prox]

OMG Shotty is online!

Tell me shotty, what do we have to gain from No Lynch?

[Prox]

I really hope we have a doc somewhere.

You'll need to convince us of your claim. Role name, pregame scan target, etc.

[Prox]

I defend Korashk because I think he's town and that lynching townies are bad.

Would you have been less suspicious if I attacked or ignored him?

This lack of fun is lasting too long...

[Prox]

If zwet scanned during the pregame, then I wouldn't doubt everyone else could use their abilities as well. That would explain the extensive pregame.

I don't like people lining up lynches. Overly defensive is a stupid accusation.

[Prox]

I never said N0. Pre-game. As in before D-1. When zwet half scanned me.

The quote in question was me expressing annoyance. Not carefulness.

[Prox]

The only thing before D1 is N0... clarify what you are saying. Pre-game means the game hadn't started yet, and hence no one could perform any actions prior to start of D1. That is what N0s are for.

If this game is day start, then no actions have been performed yet. I have never heard of anyone acting before N1 in a day start.
If this game is night start, then mafia got no kill off, as I saw no mention of anyone dying, and that what you are saying in terms of zwet scanning you is true.

Clarify: I believe that during the pregame, people were given a chance to use their active abilities, including zwet and his scan.

Why would zwet claim if he hadn't already targetted someone? I could swear that he's talked in past tense about his role before.

[Prox]

Why were we discussing it again..?

Oh right. Shotty. His claim is bull.

[Prox]

I was right.

[Prox]

Oh, brother. SK? Really?

[Prox]

still think prox is scum, but shotty is just asking to die

How does this work out in your line of logic?

[Prox]

Zwet, I know for a fact that shotty pretends VI. I built his wiki and chatted with him while doing so. You are falling for his ploy.

I could have guessed that rolename. It's pretty obvious.

[Prox]

I am a cop, well half of one. Some one counter claim if they dont believe me

And how is this NOT a scumslip? He backtracked to fit into people's beliefs and also CALLED FOR SOMEONE TO COUNTERCLAIM HIM.

And since when is decoding what forensic investigators do to DNA? They analyze DNA. DNA is not a code. It's the human genome that is decoded. DNA a piece of evidence!

More importantly, why would shotty act the way he has as a cop with an unconclusive result? Why claim with me in my current state? With what zwet asked him to do?

Look at how he asked if zwet knew his other half. It's him checking the safety of a possible fakeclaim!

[Prox]

I just googled "decode dna" and even "decode dna forensics". NOTHING on crime came up. Shotty's claim has missile holes in it.

[Prox]

Thats what I am, deal with it

You lie.

[Prox]

unvote, vote: prox

Most logical place to start given the information.

Seriously?

[Prox]

DNA DECODER.

Read the flavor! This game parallels irl forensics. If zwet's other half is a DNA Decoder, then the mod has made a mistake in writing that role's flavor. When you are decoding DNA, you are looking at a person's genes!

Either shotty is a lie or the mod didn't work very hard on his setup. And

have

you read shotty's other posts?

Right now, in my opinion, its not whether or not someone's out there who can counterclaim shotty;

It's more whether or not the other half-cop has to claim to get us to lynch this sucka. ISO shotty and explain his play as cop.

[Prox]

Prox, could you post an example where shotty has played well?

No, because he does not. Most of his games are not yet over.

Even if there's no evidence that shotty's playstyle is contrived, there IS evidence that his claim is. Again, look at his ISO and explain how even a newbcop could do the things he has.

[Prox]

Reckless run to become IC faster?

[Prox]

But seriously:

How good would it be for the real half cop to counterclaim right now? Or should he wait?

[Prox]

So you're saying he's bad enough to do that as town, but not bad enough to gambit like that as scum?

This. Shotty's VI may be partially contrived, but there isn't a mafia virtuoso hiding under it either.

[Prox]

Remember? Shotty doesn't know the target until it is announced.

SO SHOULD THE OTHER COP CLAIM TODAY?

[Prox]

also @bunny: decode dna brought up squat, non?

[Prox]

The forensic papers that came up were all about the human genome..

[Prox]

Sigh. I really messed up this game.

[Prox]

Are you serious???! It's obvious that shotty's claim is a lie. Look at all the facts.

DO you know who your partner is?

This is him making sure him getting caught in a lie HAS to involve a counterclaim.

Vote: No lynch

He voted No Lynch. Because of this:

No one needs tp die

and this:

We gain not lynching a towny
AND!!!! if we have a doctor we can play follow the cop!!!! because now I would like to

Claim: Cop

Despite this:

My role is called DNA decoder
I recieved evidense that Prox's DNA could not be decoded which makes me think he is a SK

Here, he backtracks after seeing the town not believing that there was another cop out there. Not to mention that

DNA Decoder is not a valid role name for zwet's parallel

.

I am a cop, well half of one. Some one counter claim if they dont believe me

More backtracking. Why would he say that first part like that if he was NOT backtracking?

Most importantly, why would he think someone would counterclaim?

That's a scumslip

. Right there!

Thats what I am, deal with it

He doesn't even defend his actions! He just quietly let's someone else defend him!

Unvote

He unvoted? Wtf??

***

How is it not clear that shotty is a lie?

[Prox]

Weird. I only sighed twice. I thought I had done it more. I don't think I'll feel inclined to stop for a while, sorry. They are opinion expressers. Not spam.

[Prox]

@Prox: What you proved is that shotty has been acting like a VI, altough there are some points where you are right. However, I won't vote; things are waay too hot, and I don't want anyone to speedlynch.

Okay, we need to address this.

Shotty, can you explain what was going through your head when you made those posts I quoted.

Everyone else, stfu until he answers.

***

Pacman, just because shotty is doing VI stuff, it doesn't mean he's doing it without thinking. He has to have a reason for each of his posts, even if they are bad ones.

***

I guess I have to say this:

Normally I'd be advocating us ignore the shotty claim and result and lynch based on content instead of results.

The Reason Things Are Different:

- The Shotty claim is scummy in itself and needs to be dealt with accordingly
- I really don't want to get mislynched, and ignoring the shotty claim makes me the scummiest player.

[Prox]

So be it.

@Realcop: don't counterclaim. I'm vanilla anyways.

Let's get this over with. And give me a chance to post at L-1.

[Prox]

@Prox: Err... more roleclaims?
@Mysterio: About #1: The posts you referred to were posts ISO #6 and ISO #3. Your last 4 posts (before this one) were actually you saying nothing and attacking without reasons.
And I think I get #2, but still I think it's a very long shot at it.
What I mean is, please try to be more contributive and not post just one-liners without even elaborating what you say.
I'd like shotty to answer why does a Katsuki lynch give us info. That vote was scummy, and will be unless he explains himself.

Mmmmmhm.

[Prox]

Wow! The activity was more than I expected.

Sorry, my modem burnt out

. I had to go to the library. I have not read the whole thread yet. My new modem will be coming on Thursday. But, I will go to the library everyday to get a vote count.

I am going to

replace iiiiiiq

. It is far too late for a prod. Plus, I have been on his case already.

Oh. Hi, you.

[Prox]

Hey, I know Zajnet...

[Prox]

It was pretty obvious. Zwet announced his scan as soon as D1 started.

[Prox]

LynchMePls: the quality of shotty's play up until now does validate your underestimation. However, the fact that shotty's claim is so botched up signifies more that he's badscum trying a gambit than town trying to lynch scum.

[Prox]

Sigh. Today has been so weird. I'm surprised we got the momentum we needed.

I wouldn't bet against the idea of me getting lynched tomorrow, but I'll keep playing until something similar occurs.

[Prox]

Whatever.

[Prox]

Just vote shotty.

[Prox]

Hm. I don't think neighbors too dumb to encrypt their network will know to do that, Korashk.

But good to know.

[Prox]

Does he need to be counterclaimed?

[Prox]

But you aren't a cop. You're someone trying to draw out the cop.

[Prox]

You keep saying that.

[Prox]

You need to get a little bit more consistent, shotty. You are at L-1. Everyone voting feels that way. They aren't all scum.

[Prox]

*rubs temples*

You know, he does that a lot.

[Prox]

It's not an OMGUS, it's the fact that you are pushing for a hammer on a cop

(her and everyone else voting for you).

And you're not a cop, remember? You haven't done anything to address the reasons we think you are NOT cop. Therefore, you have no excuse.

[Prox]

Shotty, next time, try a little harder to make your claim believable. You didn't even try to clear the discrepancies against you.

[Prox]

Quotation marks mislead. Shotty said they were inconclusive.

[Prox]

Herzs was the half-cop? That's strange...ISO says he thought I was scum.

[Prox]

Herzs was the half-cop? That's strange...ISO says he thought I was scum.

U probably are.

Ah. Today is going to be hard.

[Prox]

Today should actually be easy. There were a small number of wagon detractors and one player who hammered an uncounterclaimed power role. Shouldn't be difficult at all.

Well he

was

obviously lying. You think there shouldn't have been a hammer?

[Prox]

Hard for me, at least. In fact, I'm surprised you haven't voted me already...

When I get my Desktop back, I'll post my thoughts on each person's actions for D1.

Mass claim? Why?

[Prox]

Sample Roles

Basic Idea of Standard Roles

Vanilla Townie

Description

: You are a member of town. You are tired of crimes in your town. You now take matters into your own hands with other like minded town members.

Day actions

: You can only vote during the day, your vote counts as one.

Night actions

: You have no night actions and cannot PM any other player except the mod the entire game.

Win condition

: You win when scum die, even if you are dead.

Vanilla Mafia

Description

: You are a criminal. You want to destroy town members who seek your death. You do this by voting during the day, and killing during the night.

Day actions

: During the day you vote with the town, and only count as one vote.

Night actions

: At night you can talk to your fellow mafia to select a kill, and discuss why. Select one person to tell me the night kill option.

Win condition

: You win when town all die, even if you are dead.

Basic Mechanics of Power Roles

May or may not include mechanisms of:

Protection
Investigation
PM collaboration
Role Blocking
Vote Manipulation
…..........To be discovered.

Opening Post – For links to all Important Game Links.

All I see a massclaim doing is draw out our PRs for slaughter. <.<

FoS LynchMePls

[Prox]

^^This looks like you are trying really hard to turn the conversation away from yourself, and my suggestion of a mass-claim gave you just want you wanted. Also the FOS is weak, since you aren't using your vote. Add that to everything from yesterday and today really is going to be pretty easy.

Vote: Prox

???

You proposed a mass claim! Are you serious?

vote LynchMePls

[Prox]

Bah:

It was inevitable. But at least I did some good.

Good luck. And sorry.

[Prox]

We won ^^

I failed miserably, but at least I got Hrezs located...