NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[danakillsu]

/confirm

[danakillsu]

vote: UA

Something's really not right there. Either he and Shanba communicated outside this thread or UA is just doing what Shanba wants him to. Either way, it deserves explanation.

[danakillsu]

Well it's funny to see the reactions I got from pretending I knew UA was scum. I have played with him before, I believe. At any rate, no one as experienced as me would really pretend that they knew someone was scum in the RVS. And the fact that it's tradition to start with a bandwagon on UA should make my actions even less remarkable. Anyway, I'm glad I make it worth it to you, UA.

unvote

Good to see some discussion starting.

[danakillsu]

What what?

vote: Shanba

Blatant OMGUS ftw!

[danakillsu]

Whatever. Wagon me. Don't care. You'll probably realize it's pointless eventually, because I know the people here in general are smart enough to see through your lies. It's obvious Poro just wants me lynched, because all he's done is say my post is BS without saying why or how that makes me scum. I'm not going to stoop to the level of "no, it's not". The truth of that post is for me to know, and for you to guess. Poro is guessing.

[danakillsu]

@JDodge
It's nice to see your hypocrisy right off the bat. Your mindless bandwagoning is no better than Benmage's. You provided a little "reasoning" meant to make it look somewhat less mindless, but all it was was a statement with nothing to back it. You simply said that my postulation that no one as experienced as I am would do such a thing (which is obviously true) was "BS" without explaining why, which is EXACTLY what Poro said. So you both are doing the same thing, and pointing fingers at each other while doing it.

[danakillsu]

Well it's hard to deal with everything at once, so if I leave something out, just let me know. It is really strange that everyone felt my saying "no one of my experience etc." meant that I thought everyone should listen to me, or I was smarter, or something. All I was saying was that it would be a total newb mistake to try and pretend that they had caught scum that early. I'm even more surprised that no one could see the lack of total seriousness in my original post about UA. Furcolow calls something I've done a scumslip, though I don't think he means that and don't know what he's talking about. Everyone feels that my saying Poro is guessing means that he's right somehow, when all it means was that I wasn't going to bother to spell out the fact that he was incorrect. Now I have to do that because everyone's trying to turn every word I say into a scumtell.
@xite
Sorry, but the "Winning by Losing" thing doesn't apply in the least. You notice how I never said that anything was a master plan of mine to watch others scumslip? You notice how I never said that UA's reaction to my vote was exactly what I was looking for? You notice how I've never tried in the least to use ANYTHING in this entire situation to my advantage? You have now.
And finally, I was clearly not certain that I had played with UA before, since I said "I believe". I did believe it, but was not sure, and it was not true. Big deal.

unvote

We are out of the RVS, and I need to do some scumhunting of my own.

[danakillsu]

vote: Furcolow

Didn't take long to do that scumhunting. He contradicts himself twice. First he says he's not switching his vote, then threatens to do so. Second, he calls UA an idiot, then says "in case your an idiot" like he's not an idiot. And finally, he says UA has been buddying me, which could not be farther from the truth.

[danakillsu]

My...quicktime??? What is that, exactly? Please give examples of UA buddying me. And I do mean examples, plural.

[danakillsu]

@ Furcolow
So if I voted for any of the ten (give or take) people on my wagon, I would be confirmed scum? That's stupid. I didn't vote seriously for any of the first eight!

[danakillsu]

@ Furcolow
First example: He's just saying to let the day go longer. That's called pro-town, not buddying. He doesn't saying anything about not lynching me at all.
Second example: He's pressuring someone for proof that I'm scum because they're making a particularly lame argument. Also pro-town. Many would see this as buddying, so whatever, but the first is definitely a no-go.

[danakillsu]

@ Wraith
Again, it HAS to be more than an OMGUS, because Furcolow was nowhere near the first to vote for me or to make a case against me. And do you really believe his case against me was excellent? I think the only stuff that was original made no sense at all.

[danakillsu]

@ Furcolow
First example: He's just saying to let the day go longer. That's called pro-town, not buddying. He doesn't saying anything about not lynching me at all.
Second example: He's pressuring someone for proof that I'm scum because they're making a particularly lame argument. Also pro-town. Many would see this as buddying, so whatever, but the first is definitely a no-go.

Since when is sarcasm or defending and buddying a scum "pro-town"? you make me sick.

Um...ok. That's cool. Just completely ignore what I actually said. Fine with me. And repeating the assumption that he is buddying scum doesn't hurt either, does it?

[danakillsu]

@Furcolow
And you have had time to collect your thoughts every time you've been posting <5 minutes after everyone? Give me a break. I can think fast enough to see blatant contradictions like yours. And if you would rather lynch UA, because he's a "wolf" too, why are you voting for me? OR since the scenario you've laid out looks hypothetical, I guess I'll ask, what would it take to make you sure that UA was the bigger wolf that he hasn't already done in your eyes?

[danakillsu]

@ Furcolow
If you were trying to say that I didn't go scumhunt, it's true. I didn't have time to before scum shoved itself in my face. Should I have waited 40 minutes so I could pretend to have read everyone in iso, only to come to the conclusion that you are obvscum? I think I'd rather just point out the obvscum immediately.

[danakillsu]

@ Furcolow
You specifically said you would CHANGE YOUR VOTE to UA, not that you would wait until he could get lynched by you doing it. Guess how wagons get started? By a vote that DOESN'T follow the crowd. If you would rather lynch UA, why don't you try it, we've got plenty of time. However, I find your last statement very interesting. Why? Because you just spent your entire post saying you can't lynch who is obvscum because they don't have enough votes on them. And yet you say that the fact that there are many votes on me proves that I'm obvscum. So. Is a large bandwagon indicative exclusively of obvscum, or not?

[danakillsu]

I'll rephrase the question. Is a large bandwagon what proves someone to be scum, or is it not?

[danakillsu]

Furcolow has not answered the question because he cannot with dignity. He realizes that he has contradicted himself irrevocably and must simply insult and proceed to ignore me. If he answers that it is, then UA cannot be scum/voteworthy. If he answers that it is not, then I cannot be obvscum because I have a large wagon on me, which is what he just said. Ladies and gentlemen, feel free to choose which of us is the scummier party.
Sincerely,
danakillsu

[danakillsu]

EBWOP: then I cannot be "obvscum, as is reflected by the votecount"
That should make it a little clearer what I am saying.

[danakillsu]

@ Shanba
What did I supposedly lie about? Poro's lie is that everything I said was BS. Please explain your first sentence in post 156, I don't understand it.
@ Furcolow
I thought you weren't replying to me anymore, but anyway...I didn't put words in your mouth, simply interpreted them in a logical way which apparently was not correct or was correct and you are lying about your intent. I find it hard to believe that you really meant something other than what your words say. You said I was obvscum because of the votes on me. If that's true, you are saying a large bandwagon on me makes me scum. OMGUS/AtE/strawman...none of these are slipups, they are not scumtells, they are just not great logic/great play, and two of these are matters of opinion. And "either wagon would be good for town" didn't address the issue, because the issue was where your vote was.

[danakillsu]

@ Wraith
1. I NEVER SAID I WAS REACTION FISHING. I just said the reactions were interesting. By that I meant that they were overreactions.
2. I am helping the town by finding that Furcolow is scum.
3. Not a scumtell. I have shown that my vote is not just OMGUS, it is backed up by a lot.

[danakillsu]

@ all
I am male. Just thought I'd clear that up for some of you.

[danakillsu]

Of course I was (at least kind of) joking. I had no real reason to say what I said seriously. That's why I turned to my experience. After 10 games completed, I definitely know the basics of scumtells. And self-voting is not one of them. And yeah, I was pretty much lying in the first post (joking is more accurate). But calling everything in the second post BS is what Poro did, and what I thought you were doing.

[danakillsu]

Seeing what other people have done in other games on this site in the RVS, I thought I Could Of Played around a little bit before the game got serious, and thought it surprising and somewhat funny what actually happened.

[danakillsu]

@ Mysterio
I could understand if you didn't read the thread, but if you did...what? How can you not know what Furc has done? The very first post I made in our argument lays it out clearly. His posts have been full of self-contradictions, confusing/invalid logic, and assumptions used as proof. He wants UA lynched more but is voting for me, for instance. And he wants the day to end ASAP judging by the nature of his posts.
I can only sort of understand what everyone's trouble is reading these pages, though. It's better to read 7 pages of heated discussion than 7 pages of randomness when trying to figure out who to vote for.

[danakillsu]

Yep. xRECK and I have quite a history together. Including Crimson King. If you don't mind, xReck, did you really think I was scum, or were you just pretending so you could carry out your wincon? (In Crimson King, that is)

[danakillsu]

Yeah, I come from a very different background than most of you, I bet, so my posts would naturally stick out. That's what I've always thought, anyway. Trust me, though, I've been town in at least 5 games where the overwhelming majority of the other players were completely sure I was scum. Not that I expect that to really help me in this game. I wouldn't know about Furcolow, but I'm pretty sure he isn't usually posting this way (I have played one game with him in it).

[danakillsu]

Well. nhamn's post does not seem at all patronizing or oversimplifying, does it? Not to mention the fact that he pretty much dismisses at least half of this thread as useless.

[danakillsu]

The only question that I see to me is: Have you done this before as town? No. I have not. I have not done it as scum, either. As I've said before, I've enjoyed seeing others do crazy things in the RVS, and thought I'd try it myself, but it immediately started a wagon that has not decreased one bit since.

[danakillsu]

Xite and Wickedest have some very interesting insights. I think they are both town. I agree with almost everything Xite says and everything Wickedest says except that Furc is town. That I have a hard time seeing. I would go with a Wraith or Furc lynch.
Also

fos: Hiphop

for blatantly joining my wagon simply because it's a wagon. Believing that we can't give ourselves a better chance of finding scum by logic is self-fulfilling.

[danakillsu]

@ flinter
You say the last thing I should do is take the game seriously, but everyone gets suspicious when I try to have some fun with the RVS. How do you propose I rectify such a situation in the future?
Also, I just don't understand why simply because we are arguing about a lot of stuff, it is all worthless. Just because I give a lot of reasons why Furc is scum and give more than a few contradictions in his posts, it just somehow automatically makes everything null. I think I'm going insane...

[danakillsu]

@ flinter
It seems to me you're telling me not to make posts of my impressions or testosterone-fueled posts, or whatever, but your impression of what is backing my posts is making you ignore their actual content. I think I've done a good job of showing Furc to be scum, but you are refusing to deal with the actual meat of my case against him. And I find it hard to believe that you are advising me to take this game more seriously. The only post that wasn't serious was my first.

HoS: Hiphop

Do you really not care at all about this game?

[danakillsu]

Will post content very soon.

[danakillsu]

I'm a cop. Breadcrumb in iso 23 "Could Of Played". Will post more at around 9:30 CST.

[danakillsu]

viewtopic.php?p=2459898#p2459898
Those words are capitalized where it makes no sense to capitalize words unless you are breadcrumbing. The fact that I knew I was claiming cop back then makes it more likely to you that either I am cop or scum have fakeclaims and I haven't been in a Large Normal where scum have fakeclaims. Therefore, it makes it more likely to you that I was actually cop, since I knew that was what I was going to claim. I didn't want all the attention that I have recieved at the beginning, but am so sure that Furcolow is scum that I was not going to just let all his self-contradictions sit there. The fact of my many posts do make me more likely cop than scum to you, I believe, since scum have even more reason to lay low.

[danakillsu]

@ Wickedest
I saw I was beginning to get a lot of votes and realized I hadn't breadcrumbed yet. I would have preferred to remember to do it earlier, I just didn't. There were a lot of votes yet to come, so it wasn't like I did it right before I claimed.

[danakillsu]

unvote vote: hiphop

He's not just a lurker, he's a scummy one, too. And I'm not getting anywhere by voting for Frankscum. Would be willing to vote for Wraith if a decent wagon got started, or obviously for Frank.

[danakillsu]

I have stated my suspicions of hiphop before and FoSed him. Please read the thread.

[danakillsu]

unvote vote: Furcolow

Agree that hiphop has been posting more and better and now some people will help me lynch Frankscum.
@ Wickedest
The purpose is showing that you knew what you would claim beforehand, leaving three possibilities.
1. You are scum who limited himself to one claim.
2. You are who you claimed to be.
3. You are scum with a fakeclaim.
3 doesn't make any sense, so that means I have shown that I am one of the first two things. It doesn't make it a ton more likely, but it does make it somewhat more likely that I am telling the truth. Any suggestions on whom I should target tonight if we lynch Furcolow? I will not tell you who I am actually going to target until D2, but I would like some suggestions.
Furcolow's bizzare speculation that scum probably have more than 1 kill is very scummy.

[danakillsu]

Yeah, scummy as he is, Wraith isn't really the lynch for today. If you're voting for Wraith, you should be voting for Frank. In the last two pages I see: Frankscum Wraithscum Xitetown Porochaztown Robbnull. Consider this a catchup post.

[danakillsu]

@ Wickedest
I already pretty much answered that. You should breadcrumb when you're town who wants to make his claim seem less like a scum fakeclaim or when you're scum who wants to make his claim seem less like a fakeclaim. It doesn't help you a ton, but it does help you some.
@ Flinter
That is a really dumb statement. What do you mean only scum would care about supporting his claim? What good would I do to the town as a cop if no one believed I was a cop?
@ ConfidAnon
Well, for one thing, I said Wraith and Furc were both scum, and I have to choose one of them. But for another thing, if Furc flips town somehow it partially clears Wraith, who has been defending him.

[danakillsu]

Uh...really? Not claiming D1 would be townie? Getting lynch as a cop because I didn't claim D1 would be pro-town? I think not. Everyone, including townies, wants to look townie. You can't do much good for the town if everyone thinks you're scum. And I didn't call you stupid, I called your statement dumb. I'm not stupid and I say stupid things once in a while. Would link you to one, but it's ongoing

[danakillsu]

@ xRECK
Can you explain to me why you don't have anything more important/pertinent to say? They've already done it, so you're hopefully not trying to warn them not to do it again. And unless you're going to FoS them for it, calling that a great scumtell is not effective. So I really don't see the point in your post at all.

[danakillsu]

@xRECK
So you suspect them somewhat for it. That's all I wanted to know, since your first post did not make that clear.
@ flinter
Actually, I have no idea how that would be a contradiction. If you're townie, you try to play as a townie should because that's how you win.

[danakillsu]

I didn't say I did things to look more town. I just said that I did things to show people that I am town. There's a difference. And if that sends warning sirens off in your head, there's something wrong with your theory.

[danakillsu]

Let's put this another way, shall we? You are a human. You do some things to seem more human sometimes. You wouldn't want people calling you inhuman for your behavior. Just because you do things to seem more like a human like combing your hair or putting on deodorant doesn't mean you are not in fact human.

[danakillsu]

@ Flinter
Don't know if that was supposed to be sarcastic, so I don't know how to respond.
@ Wickedest
I'm not so awesome at Mafia Theory that I actually know what point in the game is the best time to breadcrumb at. Why are you asking me all these questions about breadcrumbs? I'm doing it because I've seen others do it and people (including me) have believed their claims. I know some of the reasons for that, but not all. Maybe you should just enlighten us if there's something you know and we don't.
@ xite
So maybe YOU don't do stuff that way, but plenty of people do, and you don't say "that person is not human" just because they're trying to look like other humans. And sometimes it does take effort to look like what you really are, which is really my main point.

[danakillsu]

@ xite
That was not a smart play. You cannot possibly say that breadcrumbing is scummy. It just doesn't make sense. It's null at worst no matter when you do it.
On the topic of "looking townie", what you say destroys the basic rules of scumhunting. It's no wonder it seems like you've had a broken scumdar this whole time. If you think only scum try to look townie, then you think townies don't care how they look. If you think townies don't care how they look, then the townie ones are the scum and the scummy ones are the town. Are you kidding me?

[danakillsu]

@xite
All you've done is restate your opinion, which I've already proven to be illogical. It's not only new players that do deliberate things to look town as town, because that wouldn't make sense. If you're not trying to look town as town, you're not helping your team, because they will not listen to scummy players when they give their scumreads. Your reads have been all over the place, and I have not agreed with them in general. I believe I can get at least a fair amount of agreement from the other players on the first point.

[danakillsu]

@UA
Proven by the fact that this game does have methods for catching scum. xite's ideas go against those methods. And I did not mean to say that in such a scenario the town players would play scummy, I only meant to say that they would always be scummiER than the actual scum, who are trying to look town. It makes any notion of townie and scummy useless.

[danakillsu]

I don't know why Frank isn't dead yet! I've been trying to get him lynched for forever...

[danakillsu]

I apologize for the recent second thread explosion. It is apparent that trying to prove my opinion is useless because I can't get anything out of UA or xite other than a stating of their opinions. Anybody know how long until the day ends? If it's close, don't vote for anyone other than Frank or hiphop, so we can at least lynch someone today. Also, anybody disagree with nhammen's suggestions for my investigation (Wraith, hiphop, and bunny)?

[danakillsu]

^^^Concur. With both posts actually. And with Mysterio's too. You nonvoters are stalling this game.

[danakillsu]

I love the direction this thread has been moving in as far as votes and reasoning, but I would request that everyone step back a moment before posting, please. Things have been getting a bit out of hand here recently. Now back to your regularly scheduled lynching.

[danakillsu]

Well, the alive part looks like it's about to change, thankfully. L-2.

[danakillsu]

What's up with Sebguer? Hasn't posted in almost four DAYS! That kind of player is what's killing this game.

[danakillsu]

Tons of material =/= to a productive game for town. We need every player slot voting to get the lynch we need.

[danakillsu]

@ Dave
Not a great entrance. We need more than your reasons that you want to lynch a claimed cop. We need some commentary on other players. It looks to me like you're trying to put your vote somewhere that people won't call you scummy for it, but you don't have to take a stand on the current bandwagons.

[danakillsu]

What???
In a game this large, two people being told by the mod that they are cops is by no means impossible. One of us could be insane, but that's not even NECESSARILY true. Horrible idea to claim at this juncture, just horrible. Especially since it definitely won't make anyone pro-town try to lynch me. And the most significant thing is that you only tell your "true" reasons for voting me when pressured, which does not add credibility to your claim.

[danakillsu]

I'm pretty sure, though obviously not completely, that insane cops are allowed in Large Normals.

[danakillsu]

Agree that a singersigner case is still bunkum. The coaching thing...
...
...
really?
If DP was singersigner's buddy, don't you think he'd read that post and say "oh, wait, maybe I shouldn't claim right now"?

[danakillsu]

^^lol
lol
lol
@ Xite
The point is that singer was saying DP was dumb for doing it and then he did it. Do you really think a scumbuddy would do that?

[danakillsu]

No. I don't want to. I think I have at least shown that thinking DP is not singersigner's scumbuddy is very reasonable. That's all I wanted. I don't want to have some big debate over HOW improbable it is.

[danakillsu]

@ Wraith
Can you explain why this is? I don't really understand the difference between what I've been saying to and about Frank and what he's been saying to and about me except obviously, I think the former is better.

[danakillsu]

If I were like some players here, I would be like, "oh, you want to stop talking about it, do yah? Well I'm gonna keep talking about it, 'cause I think maybe Frank v. Me is TvT, and you're the scum here"
That's how frustrating it is when I try to say, "Let's stop talking about this" and people say stuff like the above.

[danakillsu]

@ Gorrad
I have already explained that I never intended to use the reactions to my UA vote as scumtells. I just thought they were funny, and still find it funny how much people have made out of the whole thing.
Frank's not a doc. I'm sure of that much. There's just no way a doc would claim VT.

[danakillsu]

Got an inno on DavidParker, but as you can see, that doesn't help us much. I'm surprised scum killed him, seeing as he didn't seem likely to be a cop anyway.

vote: Wraith

I would be very glad to lynch the scum any day of the week.

[danakillsu]

okay, so if you haven't figured it out, here's what went down last night.
1. Someone killed nhammen. Who knows who or how.
2. I investigated David Parker. I did this because he also claimed cop. I expected to get a guilty on him, knowing my role was cop, but it turned out he was just making a gambit, as has already been stated. ALL SMART COPS WILL ALWAYS INVESTIGATE THEIR CC'S.
3. Maf killed David Parker (presumably). They did this because doc (if any) was told to be on me, and DP was the other cop claim.

These all make perfect sense for who did them if nhammen's killer was a vig. And they still pretty much make sense if the killer was another scum faction or SK. Any questions?
And honestly, yesterday, I was trying to make it seem like I would investigate wraith, just to throw mafia off in some way.

[danakillsu]

I don't see how I was speculating on setup at all. I was leaving all the options completely open. I didn't say there was an SK or other mafia faction, just that if there was one of those, it would fit the facts almost as well as a vig. And I said "presumably" if you didn't notice. Your attacks of me are pretty weird, and I think you should take a pointer or two from singersigner (btw get her name right) who can see that I did exactly what a cop would do N1.

[danakillsu]

Anyone who was cop would have targeted DavidPaker who claimed he was the cop to in a try to lynch Dana.
We have to believe in Dana claim, which is most likely true since I don't see anyone else countering it.

if I was a cop, and it was any other player, yeah I would probably investigate the person claiming my role

BUT right before DP claimed it was posted he fake claims often even when he is town, plus later he changed to say he breadcrummed Doc

it is that point that clearly he isn't mafia and he is VI instead

now Dana not realizing that makes him either a stupid cop or not a cop at all. Cause what easier way to keep your cop story alive than to claim you investigated the dead guy.

Now I'm not ready to lynch Dana just yet cause he could just be a stupid cop.

Do I have to say this again? It really doesn't matter who the player is or what their pattern is! DP could use the common knowledge that he fakeclaims as town to keep people from investigating him unless the real cop is actually smart. IF YOU ARE COP, YOU MUST ALLLLLLWWWWWAAAAAYYYSSS, ALWAYS, INVESTIGATE YOUR CC! I don't have to be a stupid cop to be a cop, I have to be a fairly smart cop to be a cop.

[danakillsu]

And Wraith's invitation to lynch him should just make you want to lynch him more. Suggestions for tonight's investigation?

[danakillsu]

So, any reason I still haven't received suggestions for tonight's investigation? And I don't want anyone to give just one suggestion, because scum would know who I was going to pick that way.

[danakillsu]

many cops I have seen ask for suggestions. If you want me to go with my reads, that's fine, I'll be more than happy to do so.

[danakillsu]

I am a male and don't forget it. A gun as an avatar and "Male" under my gender should clear this up, but....
I definitely think more people should be voting for Wraith. I don't see how anyone could not see him as at least a little scummy. And
@mod
My only go-to guy for replacements is ReaperCharlie, who I heard is taking a hiatus.

[danakillsu]

Strange that Wickedest will vote almost anyone except Wraith.
He's definitely someone to look at as a scumbuddy if Wraith flips scum as expected.

[danakillsu]

Uh... Wraith... how could you miss it? It's been discussed endlessly. I investigated my cop cc, DP, and found he was innocent.

[danakillsu]

@ Wickedestjr
Since Wraith became a suspect, you have voted for three different people other than him, apparently fully believing they are scum, and have admitted that your townread on him revolves mostly around gut.

[danakillsu]

Are you asking me to investigate you, Wraith? Because I'm not sure I understand that post.

[danakillsu]

Is it so odd for a player to have a town read? Just because you believe someone is scum doesn't mean they are, and moreover, just because you think someone is obviously scummy doesn't mean it's true.

And your point is...?
If I think Wraith is obvscum, then I think anyone who ignores his scumminess and votes just about anyone else is also scummy. That is called consistency. If you don't agree, you don't agree, but this statement is pointless.

[danakillsu]

@ Wraith
You're not even going to claim before we lynch you? Seems like caught scum to me...

[danakillsu]

If he was town faking a daykill, he would be doing it to try to keep Wraith alive. And if he wanted Wraith alive, he wouldn't have put his vote there for so long. So

unvote vote: Mysterio

I kind of like the case on him, and it's a good place to rest my vote while I try to figure out who besides Wraith is scummy.

[danakillsu]

So, uh, fill me in, because I can't find this anywhere. Why is Wraith not being daykilled instead of lynched? I thought we agreed we had to lynch someone else because of the daykill.

[danakillsu]

unvote vote: Wraith

Yeah...that was really stupid Xite. It accomplished nothing good.

[danakillsu]

It is still my opinion, in fact. Robbnva kind of beat me to the punch. Why did we need to post our suspicions of other people when we already have a lynch candidate for the day. That would only give scum more information. So yeah, what you did was good...for scum.

[danakillsu]

Because that is called tunneling and a terrible thing for town to do. If he's town, what will you have to go on tomorrow? Hell, if he's scum, what will you have to go on tomorrow? Not much right? I was making a point that you should still be looking at other players, lest they slip under the radar.

What are you talking about? We can look at other players tomorrow just as easily as we could today. All you did was make us look elsewhere for a lynch before we actually had to. That certainly isn't going to do wonders for the town.

[danakillsu]

My opinion on walls of text.
Gorrad: town
Xite: scummy
Robbnva: neutral
Mysterio: town
hiphop: scummy
If the Wraith wagon actually does fall apart, I would definitely vote for hiphop or Xite, preferably hiphop, since Xite hasn't been too scummy before this whole thing.

[danakillsu]

NOTE: The above post just talks about the last page, not the whole game.

[danakillsu]

This is so ironic. I'm really starting to see dana/robbie, and since I feel dana can't be scum without wraith, maybe he's back in that list too. But really Wraith needs to post more before I make that decision

Why is it ironic and why are you seeing this as a scumteam?
I think you're just mad because I pointed out your scumminess in derailing the Wraith wagon, voting for Wraith again, and unvoting him again. Wishy-washiness on the main wagon is extremely scummy.

[danakillsu]

@ UltimaAvalon
I find it funny that you're admitting to posting a lot of fluff. Because it fact, most of this page is fluff. I didn't get much out of the hiphop case, and that's the only meat really here. Let's all try to post things that have more of an effect on the game, because I'm finding it hard to comment on recent posts.

[danakillsu]

This is so ironic. I'm really starting to see dana/robbie, and since I feel dana can't be scum without wraith, maybe he's back in that list too. But really Wraith needs to post more before I make that decision

Why is it ironic and why are you seeing this as a scumteam?
I think you're just mad because I pointed out your scumminess in derailing the Wraith wagon, voting for Wraith again, and unvoting him again. Wishy-washiness on the main wagon is extremely scummy.

First, the first time I got off of it was to keep my gambit alive-ish. Then I got back on because wraith was still my top suspect and lynch choice, then I read his ISO and decided he was just bad town, and honestly robbie is the perfect lynch for today.

It's ironic because this was your list

My opinion on walls of text.
Gorrad: town
Xite: scummy
Robbnva: neutral
Mysterio: town
hiphop: scummy
If the Wraith wagon actually does fall apart, I would definitely vote for hiphop or Xite, preferably hiphop, since Xite hasn't been too scummy before this whole thing.

gorrad: attacking wraith
me: no longer attacking wraith, I got scummy when I stopped attacking wraith
robbie: not really pushing or against the wraith wagon
myst: voting wraith without question
hiphop: under a lot of attention for his blatant wagoning "techniques" so safe to put him there
Then, if people stop attacking wraith, I would vote for hiphop, or xite, hiphop because he's the next likely candidate, and xite because she's on her way to being a likely candidate.

Honestly, like I said, if you were scum, then wraith is no doubt a scumbuddy, and vice versa, so I can see you really trying to bus him, but setting yourself up for something else in case the lynch doesn't go through
It was just an ironic post if you look at the motivation behind it.

LOOK AT THE WAY YOU TRY TO DESCRIBE YOURSELF IN THE FIRST PART! ARE YOU SERIOUS?
I don't care where the heck your vote is right now. If all it took was a reading of Wraith's iso to make you flip-flop on him AGAIN, then there's something wrong with you. I find it much more likely that you are just his scumbuddy.
And I laughed at you trying to make everything revolve around wraith in the second part. You couldn't relate hiphop to it, so you just had to say, "oh, he's playing it safe". And strangely enough, Robbnva is VOTING for Wraith right now, so I'm pretty sure he's pushing his wagon, aren't you?

[danakillsu]

dana: I seem to recall that you are already workign on the assumption that Wraith is scum. Does that mean that you think Xite is bussing?

WAS
Xite was bussing Wraith, imo. He's (she's?) not voting him anymore. It's not 100%, but it's more likely not, and as likely as anything can be at this point.

[danakillsu]

Wow, amazing. My two WoTs were COMPLETELY ignored. Especially by my primary suspects and wagoneers.

@dana: If Xite was my scumpartner and bussing me then laying off all of a sudden was the stupidest decision, ever. My bus was in the bag, Xite's major town cred was assured...Oh wait. I'm town, Xite's town, and you're being an idiot. Open your eyes, read my damn WoTs, and tell me what you think.

Well in a way it would have been stupid. But only in the sense that it allowed me to find scum. Xite did a pretty good job there of derailing your wagon, and I'm beginning to think we may never get you lynched. So how good a performance it was depends on whether we can still lynch you.
And I didn't comment on your WoTs for the same reason as Gorrad. I really don't feel like defending an overall scumread and an overall nullread, and I didn't find your arguments ridiculously good, so I don't want to switch my vote either.

[danakillsu]

I like how everyone knows the maxim of "don't direct the cop", yet every game someone feels the need to breathlessly mention it, as if any cop, despite also knowing said maxim (and probably being an egotistical douche), wouldn't already know he wasn't going to be directed anyway by some random chatter. High drama.

Dana's a silly cop. He'll investigate whoever he wants, and I would hope that he wouldn't just take the word of one person telling him to investigate one person. Just putting that out there.

Why am I a silly cop? I've only investigated one person and it made sense. And I for sure wouldn't allow myself to be directed now that EVERYONE has said not to direct me.

[danakillsu]

Sigh...
I can't believe you haven't lynched Wraith yet and are forcing me to post a fluff post like this just to keep from getting prodded. Just watch the deadline, okay?

[danakillsu]

Alrighty, well it's time for everyone to be voting for Wraith or Mysterio, no ifs ands or buts. Only thing that could change this is a good old deadline extension, but I don't expect to be given one, considering how much time we've had. Just in case I die tonight, I want to say that Xite is probably scum.

[danakillsu]

Okay, first, read the thread.
Second, Why am I scum?
Third, Why am I scum if you die tonight?
Fourth, why only Wraith or Mystie?

I lol'd. Tomorrow, I will answer your second question. As in, D3. The third question does not apply, because I never said that, and the fact that you don't know the answer to the fourth question shows that your first sentence was hypocritical. Oops.

[danakillsu]

I really wish we didn't have to get a deadline extension. I like who the main two bandwagons are, and I'm tired of nothing happening in this game, but if it's what other people want, what can I do?

[danakillsu]

Okay, first, read the thread.
Second, Why am I scum?
Third, Why am I scum if you die tonight?
Fourth, why only Wraith or Mystie?

I lol'd. Tomorrow, I will answer your second question. As in, D3. The third question does not apply, because I never said that, and the fact that you don't know the answer to the fourth question shows that your first sentence was hypocritical. Oops.

Why tomorrow? Why not right now? If this is you breadcrumbing that you're going to investigate me, I swear to god they'd better lynch you tomorrow when I get nk'd, because that'd make it so frickin obvious that you're scum.
No, you didn't say that, but it was heavily implied, and if you die tonight, then how the hell will you answer my question?
Nope, just not going to go back and see what you said about them, because IIRC, you didn't say much today except some really bad points and some "I agree with so-and-so"'s. I want YOUR reasons as to why only those two, not everyone else's

Tomorrow and not right now because I do not want to make a fullblown case on you from scratch today when I would already be fine with lynching the two main wagons. It might divert attention from Wraith, which you already tried to do.
I didn't even impy that, I just said that I wanted to tell people that you are scum because I might not get a chance to do that tomorrow (I might be dead).
You misunderstood completely. The reason that I am saying to vote for one of them is found in the exact same part of the thread you told me to read: the votecount.

[danakillsu]

Inno on Xite was my result. I didn't investigate Wraith because I figured it would be too obvious and scum might be able to affect it somehow (like a lawyer or framer). So I wish to lynch Wraith like we should have yesterday.

vote: Wraith

[danakillsu]

Okay, I had my suspicions of dana as Day 2 dragged on, mostly revolving around the fact that he never really had a reason for voting me beyond what everyone else said, and avoided the question TWICE when I put it to him. This post is what pushed me over the edge:

Inno on Xite was my result. I didn't investigate Wraith because I figured it would be too obvious and scum might be able to affect it somehow (like a lawyer or framer). So I wish to lynch Wraith like we should have yesterday. vote: Wraith

Let me get this straight: you didn't want to investigate me (and therefore prove my innocence) because you thought a scum framer could frame me? And then you want to lynch me anyway despite thinking the MAFIA would frame me?

Vote: danakillsu

Wow, lol. I said Framer OR Lawyer. If you were town and there was a Framer, they would be sure to target you and make you look guilty. If you were scum and there was a Lawyer, they would be sure to target you and make you look guilty. The only ways the Xite result could be wrong are GF and busdriver. Maybe it was the fact that this post garnered votes on you that "pushed you over the edge", hmmm?
@ Xite and Robbnva
Why are you so sure that scum has a Roleblocker? I don't know why anyone would assume this and then vote me because if it. As I mentioned above, there could easily be a busdriver instead.

[danakillsu]

@Wraith
nhammen is smart enough to avoid votecount analysis and yet votecount analysis proves I'm scum? There something dead wrong with your logic here. If I was scum, I would have qualms about jumping on major wagons all the time. As town, I believe that the other members of the town in this game have had pretty good reasons for voting and so I have voted along with the majority a lot.

[danakillsu]

why is everyone ignoring the fact that I said Lawyer OR Framer? is it just because it's convenient?

[danakillsu]

I'm going to have a hard time answering all the questions and attacks directed at me tonight, but for now, just remember that me not being roleblocked is just as much WIFOM as me not dying and that the two could easily go hand in hand.

[danakillsu]

danakillsu

I'm going to ignore everything from him on Day 1. That's been discussed enough. Day 2 is where his cop claim starts to fail to make up for scumminess.

Got an inno on DavidParker, but as you can see, that doesn't help us much. I'm surprised scum killed him, seeing as he didn't seem likely to be a cop anyway.
vote: Wraith
I would be very glad to lynch the scum any day of the week.

This is where is starts. We now know there was a scum Roleblocker - why didn't they block the claimed cop? They killed the other, but the more probable claimed cop got away scot free? I'm surprised this wasn't brought up during Day 2. He also immediately jumps on my bandwagon for no reason. As far as I can tell, dana had absolutely NO suspicions against me during Day 1 and gave none during Day 2.

Why am I more probable claimed cop? Even if I was, scum could have kept me around so that you would think this and they could kill two birds with one stone. I think they could see that a lynch on me was pretty much just a matter of time. Your saying that I had no suspicion of you the first two days makes me lol so hard

Strange that Wickedest will vote almost anyone except Wraith.
He's definitely someone to look at as a scumbuddy if Wraith flips scum as expected.

He begins putting out seeds of doubt on Wickedest, the most obvtown player in the game, solely for defending me. Let me bring up this point in my defense: why, when so many people were arrayed against me Day 2, and with the threat of "obvious Day 3 lynch" looming because of Mysterio's flip, would I use the Mafia's kill on the person who MOST STEADFASTLY BELIEVED MY INNOCENCE? No amount of WIFOM makes that a good decision on my part. I'll also bring up that Dana's activity dropped sharply during Day 2, when he was in the clear, cruising on his cop claim, and sitting on a strong wagon.

In Star Wars Mafia, I NK'd the people that defended me as scum and consequently survived at least two days with everyone firmly believing I was scum. Sounds a lot like your situation, doesn't it? Your activity does the same thing btw, and besides, Day 2 was slow for everyone

Is it so odd for a player to have a town read? Just because you believe someone is scum doesn't mean they are, and moreover, just because you think someone is obviously scummy doesn't mean it's true.

And your point is...?
If I think Wraith is obvscum, then I think anyone who ignores his scumminess and votes just about anyone else is also scummy. That is called consistency. If you don't agree, you don't agree, but this statement is pointless.

Shanba's post was in response to dana's attack on wicked for defending me. Dana uses this to try and turn the town against the second-most obvtown player in the game. Note: Shanba is a very probable candidate for tonight's nightkill.

Um, what? I didn't try to turn the town against Shanba at all. I just said that his defense was entirely pointless. That's called an argument, not an FoS.

If he was town faking a daykill, he would be doing it to try to keep Wraith alive. And if he wanted Wraith alive, he wouldn't have put his vote there for so long. So unvote vote: Mysterio
I kind of like the case on him, and it's a good place to rest my vote while I try to figure out who besides Wraith is scummy.

Believing I am inevitably dead, dana shifts to the next-best wagon, and also states that he'll lose his tunnel vision. Yet he immediately puts his tunnel vision goggles back on when the daykill is confirmed fake. Oh dear. "Captain, my sensors indicate a strong scum reading on this next post"

Conveniently ignoring the fact that I said I was trying to figure out where else to put my vote

It is still my opinion, in fact. Robbnva kind of beat me to the punch.

Why did we need to post our suspicions of other people when we already have a lynch candidate for the day. That would only give scum more information.

So yeah, what you did was good...for scum.

This is dana actively advocating that we not post suspicions on other people other than me. What happened to "I'm going to start figuring out who besides Wraith is scummy"? Scum have all the information they need - everyone else is an enemy, they must die. Posting SCUMREADS on other people are only going to help them choose who not to kill yet.

I said I was going to figure out who else was scum because of Xite's misdirection. And yes, that's exactly what posting scumreads on other people will do. That's why I don't think it's a good idea. Besides the fact that it gives them some nice WIFOM involving killing people who post suspicions on non-scum.

My opinion on walls of text.
Gorrad: town
Xite: scummy
Robbnva: neutral
Mysterio: town
hiphop: scummy
If the Wraith wagon actually does fall apart, I would definitely vote for hiphop or Xite, preferably hiphop, since Xite hasn't been too scummy before this whole thing.

Dana had a strong suspicion of hiphop throughout Day 1, but chose to lynch me over him. Could be evidence of scumbuddy distancing, especially since hiphop has been lurking almost the entire game, popping in only to push mislynch wagons. Xite is the third-most obvtown player in this game, but lost townpoints in everyone's eyes from the fake daykill. I've stated this before: SCUM HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO FAKE HAMMER/DAYKILL SOMEONE THEY ARE ALREADY ABOUT TO LYNCH, AND DERAILING AN INEVTIABLE LYNCH OF A SCUMBUDDY IS AN INCREDIBLY STUPID THING FOR SCUM TO DO AS IT DRAWS SEVERE AMOUNTS OF ATTENTION ONTO THEM. The "scumminess" of Xite revolves around this, but Xite, after Shanba and Wicked, is the ONLY townie to bother taking off tunnel vision goggles and scumhunt other people than the most popular wagon.

Um, seriously, what's with you calling the three people who defended you the most obvtown people? They certainly aren't obvtown to anyone else.

Why is it ironic and why are you seeing this as a scumteam?
I think you're just mad because I pointed out your scumminess in derailing the Wraith wagon, voting for Wraith again, and unvoting him again. Wishy-washiness on the main wagon is extremely scummy.

Ultra-extreme tunnel vision (plus lurking and poor voting reasons) is much more of a scumtell.

hy am I a silly cop? I've only investigated one person and it made sense. And I for sure wouldn't allow myself to be directed now that EVERYONE has said not to direct me.

It might have made sense but he was dead, and therefore the result was easy to lie about.

It made sense either way, in other words, which is why I was saying I was not silly. I can't prove I'm not scummy, because that's a matter of opinion, but calling me silly is unnecessary.

Inno on Xite was my result. I didn't investigate Wraith because I figured it would be too obvious and scum might be able to affect it somehow (like a lawyer or framer). So I wish to lynch Wraith like we should have yesterday. vote: Wraith

And this is the crown jewell of my collection. I've already pointed out how full of craplogic this is. The only thing that doesn't make sense is why dana is confirming Xite as innocent despite having pushed his scumminess so much during Day 2. Here is a cop-paste of my first attack on this post:

Let me get this straight: you didn't want to investigate me (and therefore prove my innocence) because you thought a scum framer could frame me? And then you want to lynch me anyway despite thinking the MAFIA would frame me?

But let's move on to the second part of my critique of this single post:

1. Why did you get a result at all? According to Natural Action Resolution, the block comes before the kill, so if you were blocked (and you should have been by a sane scumteam if they killed Wicked) you should not have a result even though the RB died.

2. WHY ARE YOU EVEN ALIVE? The Doctor is dead, the best possible choice by a sane scumteam would have been to kill you, the claimed cop who has POSTED RESULTS.

Theories at this point:

1. Dana is a ScumCop

I don't know how likely this is on ModMeta, but it's possible based on his play and investigation results.

2. Dana is lying

Equally plausible is that Dana is not a cop at all. Innocent on a confirmed dead VT is more than possible to fake. Xite is obvtown, the result can be faked almost as easily.

I am 99% sure dana is scum. If he had claimed a guilty on Xite that certainty would be 100%.

Predit: It doesn't matter if you said framer OR lawyer. You're still saying you thought I would be framed by someone and that was why you didn't investigate me, yet still vote for me anyway.

On this last part:
Dude, how stupid are you? This logic simply does not work. If the framer was on you, and you were town, I didn't want to be investigating you. If the lawyer was on you, I didn't want to be investigating you. And you can be sure that either of those, if they existed, would be on you. Also, if a busdriver wanted to mess up my action, you can be sure you would be one of the targets, whether you were scum or not. So in other words, an investigation of you would be at least 20% less reliable than an investigation on anyone else. I still want to lynch you, because I believe you are scum, but an investigation of you would not be able to prove that.

[danakillsu]

In short, the smart N1/D2 action by the scumteam would have been:

Kill Wicked or Xite

Roleblock Dana

Mislynch DP

DP would have been an easy target to mislynch Day 2. I'm confident he would have died before page 40. Xite and Wicked were the most obvtown players Day 1. Dana was the more believable claimed cop. Summary: Scumteam isn't too bright, dana is obvscum. If he was really pro-town, he wouldn't be alive right now.

So you are defying logic by saying that scum isn't too bright, but scum would have done the smart thing by roleblocking me if I was really a cop. Wow. Either scum is smart or isn't. Please choose one and stick with it. The truth is, scum is NOT predictable.

tbh only scum would refuse to look at the death writeup imo since they are already know who is dead.

No. Since scum did end up dying, how could scum already know who is dead? This is craplogic. I could easily miss that the scum who died was a roleblocker as either town or scum. If anything it proves I'm town since I didn't even KNOW scum had a roleblocker.

[danakillsu]

Yep, I'm a cop, no variations, no reason to believe I get bad results. Unless mafia somehow knows I'm naive because of a rolecop, I don't really see myself being anything but a regular cop. One other possibility I forgot to mention earlier is that town has a roleblocker or busdriver and was messing with what the scum roleblocker was doing. I just want to remind you of the fact that there are really two main possibilities from your POV.
1) I am scum. I knew there was a roleblocker on my team, somehow forgot that he died and also somehow forgot to say that he had been roleblocking me.
2) I am town. I have absolutely no idea how, but I have been allowed to continue investigating people. I have come up with some possibilities, but don't really know which one is true, if any of them are.

[danakillsu]

7 posts and no comment on all of my material except a joke? We must really try to do better, mustn't we.

[danakillsu]

@Wraith
The WIFOM is exactly the point. If what I'm saying is WIFOM, which I agree it is, then what you are saying is even MORE WIFOM, since you are trying to prove that I am scum using it. UA puts this well when he asks what makes Wraith's WIFOM more believable.
@Xite
If Robbnva counts, I find him scummy, but he doesn't seem to have much attention on him.
@ Gorrad
I have already explained a few ways that roleblocking/killing me would NOT benefit scum more or that they were not ABLE to roleblock/kill me. Why do you persist in assuming that not roleblocking/killing me helps them more. And btw, you do realize that by voting me, you are actually making your reasons for voting me pointless. If I get lynched, then it would make sense for scum to keep me alive as town, because they knew I was going to be lynched anyway. Do you really think getting a guilty would have changed this situation? I don't. If people won't believe my inno, why would they believe my guilty?
I would do just about anything just for one more night of investigations, so UA's ideas are very much to my liking.

[danakillsu]

I don't care how scummy you think I played early in the game, that's really not the issue at all. I have claimed cop, and unless you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am NOT cop, you should think VERY seriously indeed about trying to lynch me.
I agree with Xite, though, and I'm not going to talk anymore about people targetting me during the night, since I really don't know what happens during the night anyway, except who I choose to investigate.

[danakillsu]

unvote vote: Robbnva

I still prefer a Wraith lynch, but suspecting him from D1 hasn't gotten me anywhere.

[danakillsu]

Well that's depressing. I might be unreliable in some way or another. But I got a guilty on hiphop, and an inno on DP, so

vote:hiphop

I think it's more likely that Kise was Naive or Paranoid and that he just wasn't revealed as such, if that makes any sense.

[danakillsu]

wow 5 votes already. Well I guess this pretty much spells the end. Thank God it's not lylo, because town still has a chance after I get lynched. Thanks for at least giving me another night to investigate. C ya on the other side.
Danakillsu

[danakillsu]

I have nothing to say for myself. What could I possibly say?
In a way, singersigner sums it up best saying that I played badly as either town or scum. I am town, but can't prove it.
I guess I only have two things to say in general. The first is that I would love you to lynch hiphop and watch him flip scum, giving me another night to investigate. I asked you to do this yesterday, and I got the guilty I was hoping for, and I would hate to see it kind of go to waste by not keeping me alive. Second, I think more people need to listen to Bunnylover. Kise is not stupid. If Kise is not stupid, Kise has investigated me. That means Kise came up with an inno, or he would have voted me, because he didn't need to claim to vote me. There was more than one major wagon on me during the course of this game. So either Kise was a reliable cop who got an inno on me and so you shouldn't lynch me, or he wasn't a reliable cop, which means I can be (and of course, am).
That all being said, I have nothing to say for my play in this game. I really do think I messed this game up badly.

[danakillsu]

Everyone please read the mafia quicktopic. It is quite instructive. No matter how scummy I played, or how smart people think they are when saying I will be useless to the scumteam, I will ALWAYS come through with whatever I say I will. Though obviously my scumpals played better than me overall, I can take a decent amount of credit for the almost-win because I confused the heck out of the town and survived a long time as caught scum. GG all, especially evilpacman. Also, on a scale from 1 to 10, could everyone tell me how sure they were that I was scum BEFORE I even claimed cop? It seemed I was somehow caught immediately after posting content.

[danakillsu]

No Dana, you can take full credit for the loss tho.

No to what? This post makes no sense.

[danakillsu]

@ Benmage
Your post made me lol. Funny that everyone but you agrees that I managed to mess with their brains as caught scum.
@ Ether
Oh, trust me, it was all intentional. I've learned that anything I can make look like bussing OR buddying is good. Often it's the people I don't even mention that are my scumpals.

My specialty as scum really is getting caught immediately and staying alive forever while messing with the town's minds. Read Star Wars Mafia if you want proof.
Old Man Dana: "If it weren't for you, Antihero, I would have gotten away with it all!"
Antihero: "Screw you. Come on, Scoob, lets make the town win!"

[danakillsu]

Sorry for the shameless plug, but you might want to check out my Mish Mash game. It should be barrels of fun.

[danakillsu]

Oh, and thanks for modding, Flameaxe. Had a scumtastic time.