Mini 1037 - Madmen Mafia (Over)

[XScorpion]

/confirm
It's my worst nightmare. A game with jesters and drshotty.

[XScorpion]

Break rule 2

[XScorpion]

before I /conf(o)rm.
I need clarification from the mod. Please tell me rule 4 is a joke? How are we supposed to play mafia if you're limiting the ways we are allowed to argue? Like, I have never really seen a compelling reason why personal attacks should not be allowed. If I am to play for my win condition, and that win condition is best served by making player X angry and illogical so he isnt thinking straight, then why should I not be able to try to achieve that? Unless this rule is lifted I am going to have to /out. I'm not saying I need to tell someone to go to hell every other post, but I really dont like when mods limit my potential strategies and don't tell me in advance.

Yours truly,
@.@

There are much better ways to play mafia than to go around and piss everybody off.

[XScorpion]

There is no such thing as a "better way to play mafia." There is only the way that wins.

This is an awful philosophy. If the only way that you can win this game is by deliberately pissing people off, I'm surprised you've lasted on this site as long as you have. Meanwhile, I'm going to go ahead and try to win this without doing that, because I view it on the same level as cheating. I may annoy people on the way and make them rage at me, but I'm not going to do it through personal attacks and insults.

[XScorpion]

vote: Chronopie

I see you there, lurkerscum! I won't let you defeat me again!

[XScorpion]

Yeah I'm probably just going to end up voting for scummy people and not worrying about jesters.

[XScorpion]

Hence voting for scummy people. I'm not gonna waste my time worrying about whether they're jester or not. Scummy = death.

[XScorpion]

If shotty actually scumhunts and doesn't play awfully then I see no reason to kill him right away.

[XScorpion]

That wouldn't make sense. If he plays well, he's less likely to be lynched and more likely to be nightkilled by scum, so I highly doubt Jestershotty would scumhunt.

[XScorpion]

No one ever said he is.
But you never know.

[XScorpion]

drmy

shotty

izsik

[XScorpion]

This game is going slow.

unvote
Vote: nopoint

If you are pro-town, you wouldn't be voting yourself. Unvote and vote someone else, or explain why self-voting is pro-town.

[XScorpion]

L-1.
No one hammer, or you will die a horrible death.

[XScorpion]

Cuz .. it's fun
Oh cool, a lot of votes on me!

Basically nopoint is confirmed anti-town at this point.

[XScorpion]

In fact

unvote

because if nopoint has a jester buddy, he can drop a hammer.

[XScorpion]

Yeah I doubt that's going to happen.
He's either scum or jester. Mark my words.

[XScorpion]

Hmm...how many people on this wagon think nopoint is jester? How many think scum? Show of hands?
I'm willing to bet he's scum trying to fake jester.

[XScorpion]

Lol stef.
Well we caught a jester/scum already, so I'd love to hear your views on that.

[XScorpion]

Doesn't make any sense to end the day before everyone gets input. Nopoint should claim. Everyone on this wagon should say if they think he's jester or scum. It's a bad idea to lynch him right now...first we want to find everyone else who plans on claiming jester/scum.

[XScorpion]

I don't think so. Scum don't want to lynch jesters either. They can just shoot him.

[XScorpion]

And since scum know he's not scum, they know he's a jester for sure.

[XScorpion]

So because I'm the most townie, I must be scum?
I really don't follow your logic.

[XScorpion]

The strategy for jesters to act scummy and for scum to act like jesters are way obvious. Everyone expects that type of play in a game like this. Thus, we should be looking for strategies that aren't all that obvious. A scum player would actually do well to just play normal, as in try to act as townie as possible.

Your WIFOM here is just awe-inspiring.

[XScorpion]

It's WIFOM the moment you say "a scum player will behave like this:"
What evidence is there that scum won't simply just feign being a jester?

[XScorpion]

Then why don't we just assume everyone who is acting like a jester is scum and lynch them? Is there a problem with this?

[XScorpion]

Are you aware that putting smileys around everything you say makes it harder for people to determine if you are being serious or not?
Nopoint, what is your view of Mysterio's "lynch the towniest people" strategy?

[XScorpion]

The mod answered that already:

There is at least one vanilla townie in the setup, as well as at least one mafia faction. All factions have a winnable condition. If a win condition is achieved, and it doesn't directly interfere with the win condition of another faction, the game will keep on. For example, if the win condition of a player is to get certain player lynched, should that player achieve that condition (and no other win condition is achieved at the same time), the game can keep on.

[XScorpion]

How many jesters and scum do you guys think we have? 2 of each (my guess)? Any more than that and I think the game gets a little silly.

[XScorpion]

I think that I'm the only town-aligned player.

Why is that? Everyone else looks like jester or scum to you?
If so, please tell me why each person is jester/scum and why.

[XScorpion]

Sure as hell ain't to my win condition to pretend to be a jester. It's actually quite against my win condition. No, I get stuck with the boring ass job of trying to pick out scum from jesters. Fun fun fun.

Good catch Katsuki.

[XScorpion]

Unfortunately, being a jester and scumhunting are mutually exclusive as far as I'm concerned.
It's much more important to me to lynch scum than focus on avoiding being lynched, in fact sometimes it's better to lynch townie because you know for sure you won't hit a jester (this is only good when you have a vig or such though).

[XScorpion]

Thanks for explaining that to me, it's real helpful.

Should we get nopoint to claim?

[XScorpion]

It is more important to lynch scum, but the two aren't mutually exclusive. Playing jester isn't all about making terrible votes.

I wouldn't know, I've never been jester. From my perspective, all they're here to do is get themselves lynched, so why would they bother to scumhunt?

[XScorpion]

Yes, but you don't want everyone to know you're a jester. Jesters don't try to look like jesters >.>

That depends completely on what kind of people we're trying to lynch. If we want to lynch people who look scummy, they want to look scummy. If we want to lynch people who lurk, they'll want to lurk. So on so forth. I'm actually wondering if no lynch might be a good idea right now...

vote: No lynch

Hopefully we have vigs or some sort of power role to help us kill scum/jesters.

[XScorpion]

If you'd like to explain why no lynch is a bad idea as opposed to posting inane statements then be my guest.

[XScorpion]

Why No Lynch? if you are so sure I'm scum

I'm not feeling that confident, and I'm still waiting for someone to explain why we shouldn't just nolynch and let the vigs(if we have any) and scum pick off the jesters.

[XScorpion]

Why would scum not shoot town and leave jesters instead?

Because scum don't know who the jesters are any more than we do. And they have to kill the jesters too else risk lynching them and losing. I'm also betting on us having vigilantes to help us out, because otherwise I think the game is tilted a little far against the town.

[XScorpion]

But scum would rather lynch Jesters than NK them.

Pretty sure scum lose too if this happens...

[XScorpion]

I disagree. I think scum would rather NK Jesters because it doesn't make any difference who the other 50% of the town is, and they'd rather lynch townies than Jesters for obvious reasons (e.g. winning the game). You have to remember that just because scum are our enemies doesn't mean they're going to approach the jester situation differently. They want jesters to be nightkilled just as much as we do.

[XScorpion]

I played in one jester game before this, and the no-lynch option was actually disabled until the mimes won/were killed. Shutting off the jester's win condition seems like a good strategy to me. In the last game we actually had a townie off himself to deny Jesters a lynch. Food for thought.

[XScorpion]

Wow drshotty, I wasn't aware that you had complete knowledge of the setup!
Could you tell me how many scum and jesters there are?

[XScorpion]

Hmm, maybe because I don't want to lynch a jester?
There's a reason that no-lynch was banned in the last jester game I played, and it isn't because the mod likes to see blood.

[XScorpion]

...no. It doesn't work like that.
Jesters win if they get lynched. Period. They lose if they get nightkilled.

[XScorpion]

Continuing discussion is fine, but lynching is bad. A nightphase is hopefully going to get at least 2 random kills, which is a LOT better than 2 random kills and a lynch that may hit a jester. Just because it won't end the game doesn't make it good, we're trying to win here, not come in second place.

And how exactly is no lynching helping scum? If I was scum, I'd want to lynch because it just means 1 person closer to winning the game, and lynching a jester would be fine because I know I could kill the other one.* Not to mention that jesters are going to try to get themselves lynched, while I'd be trying to not get lynched - a good combination. So what we're actually doing here is 1) slowing down scum progress and 2) ensuring that jesters can't win, period.

*assuming that the setup is like the last one i played in, where 2 jesters had to get lynched, and they suicide if the other jester is nightkilled.

[XScorpion]

I don't want to get into the situation last game where a townie had to CLAIM SCUM just to prevent a jester win.

[XScorpion]

You know what's striking about this? Neither of these points has anything to do with a town win condition! Not lynching scum means we lose just like lynching the jesters, the difference being that in the process of lynching jesters, we actually have a chance of lynching scum and winning. Not lynching anyone at all does absolutely nothing to help town win. Scum can pick us off during night kills, and jesters will sit back and lol until endgame, while town twiddles our thumbs hoping for scum to kill the jesters.

You seem to forget that we probably have a vig on our side, and hopefully other PRs too. Not lynching for the whole game won't win, but at least until we have more information (cop?) or the jesters get nightkilled then we are shutting off the jester victory, and a night or two of cop results/vig kills should put us in a much better position..
You seem to be convinced that jesters and scums are working together. They're not. Scum want jesters to get nightkilled just as much as we do.

[XScorpion]

Look XS. Jester lynch =/= end of the fucking world.

I'd rather avoid having to fakeclaim scum to avoid them winning again thnx.

[XScorpion]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... highlight=
One of my worse games. Mylynes had to fakeclaim scum otherwise we would have lynched jester.

[XScorpion]

Notice this is one of the rules from that game:

You may also Vote: No Lynch if you please, but this will not be an option as long as the Mime roles are still living.

Why do you think this is here? Because mod likes people to get lynched every day? No, it's here because it's a breaking strategy, and I like breaking strategies.

[XScorpion]

Look XS. Jester lynch =/= end of the fucking world.

I'd rather avoid having to fakeclaim scum to avoid them winning again thnx.

The game does NOT end if the jesters are lynched.

No, but we still lose. How is that any better?

[XScorpion]

Because the jesters win? We're basically fighting for second place in that case.

[XScorpion]

Technically we get second place, because they win first. It's the same with the lyncher (who wins if he lynches a certain person). We only share the win with third party roles that win simultaneously with us (survivors for example).

[XScorpion]

I'm here to win, not come in second place. So I'm playing cautious.

[XScorpion]

Fine.

unvote
vote: nopoint

If he's jester we ARE no lynching tomorrow.

[XScorpion]

I think that's L-1.
Nopoint please claim.

[XScorpion]

I think he is at L2. Gandalf unvoted no?

Drshotty voted for him.

XScorpion has made some insane arguments that he's finally given up on, but it reads to me as scum trying to avoid town lynches by arguing that it will somehow make us win. That's just pure scum BS.

So first you say you should lynch me because I'm 'giving off the most townie vibes,' now you're arguing that I'm scummy. Get your story straight.
And I'm not giving up on my argument. No lynch is still a good idea for later, but I suppose we can afford to risk one lynch on day 1. Like I said, we're hands down going to no lynch tomorrow if he flips jester.

I think the vig should shoot screl1 or gandalf.
I think the cop should investigate shotty or stef.
Before the day ends I think we need 1) a nopoint claim and 2) everyone to give their opinions on who the cop/vig should target.

[XScorpion]

Snow white always lurks. And btw, is a vig kill likely being directed at me good enough reason for me to claim? >.>

I'd say probably not unless EVERYONE thinks you're a good vig target.

[XScorpion]

Goddamnit I told you to wait till people gave suggestions for vig/cop!

[XScorpion]

BTW multiple jesters is way too unbalanced. A team is far more likely.

[XScorpion]

@XScorpion: I personally think No Lynch is a good idea. Try vouching for it the next day.

Only if no jesters are killed at night of course. Or a cop gets a guilty.

[XScorpion]

EBWODP: cop DOESN'T get a guilty.

[XScorpion]

Shotty if you're lying I will stab you with a rusty fork.

vote: Percy

[XScorpion]

THIS IS L-1
NO MORE VOTES UNTIL A CLAIM

[XScorpion]

unvote

Claim and don't you dare try to self-hammer.

[XScorpion]

He refuses to claim so he can go die.

vote: Percy

[XScorpion]

Mysterio, explain why he would bus me of all people. And explain how you AREN'T tunneling like crazy right now.

vote: Percy

[XScorpion]

Anyway, I think it's clear that XScorpion is also scum. Percy tried to push a counterwagon on Scorpion to avoid the lynch, most likely bussing Scorpion in an attempt to clear himself. The fact that Scorpion immediately dropped the "hammer" before Percy could respond to my post tells me all I need to know. So, we lynch Percy today since Shotty was indeed a cop, and then we lynch Scorpion tomorrow as obvscum due to Percy's last ditch bus attempt.

This is basically a ton of WIFOM. Good job at either being scum and playing along with Percy's attempt to get me killed, or just sucking at this game. Personally I prefer not to offend people like that, so I think I'm gonna be voting you tomorrow. Unless someone wants to do me a favour and shoot you.

[XScorpion]

Locke accuses Screl, then dies. Looks straightforward to me.

Vote: Screl

[XScorpion]

Mysterio would it KILL you to stop tunneling for 5 seconds?

[XScorpion]

Actually it's OMGUS on your part, but feel free to justify it like that if you want.

[XScorpion]

@scorp, just because locke died does not mean screl is the bad guy, it shows probability but its still questionable.

Locke dying is just the nail in the coffin. People were already suspecting screl yesterday considering his attack on shotty, which I do agree is scummy.

[XScorpion]

Personally I'm surprised I'm being attacked for my attempt at a hammer before that modkill...if I was scum with Percy you can bet your ass I would have been talking like screl.

[XScorpion]

I agree with PieMan about the bussing theory.

That being said is it possible for Percy to be a jester and turn up as guilty? Has anyone ever been a cop and investigated a jester before?

TURNAROUND? DIE SCUM DIE!

[XScorpion]

The "Screl says shotty might be a jester" argument isn't.

[XScorpion]

I already explained it. Percy was in the midst of bussing Scorpion to save his ass. I responded and asked him to claim, but Percy immediately hammered and didn't even give Percy a chance to respond. Keep in mind that at that point Shotty's role was not confirmed. Percy could have been a jester, Shotty could have been fakeclaiming, or Shotty could have been an insane cop. Scorpion clearly hammered so that Percy wouldn't have a chance to form a counterwagon on him. Totally transparent scum nonsense.

Add to that his terrible no lynch argument and this is obvscum trying to coast to endgame.

What the hell is this shit
Percy was bussing me hoping to take down the only townie who did any work on day 1, thanks. What the hell did you do on day 1? Oh, nothing, just bus me all day. Way to be pro-town. You asked him to claim, and he said no, so I killed him. What did you want, him to come up with some bullshit fakeclaim? Well too bad, I killed him. Suck it.
Yes, Percy could have been a jester, shotty could have been fakeclaiming, but I decided to hammer because the only thing that would come out of the rest of the day would be more WIFOM. I hammered "so percy couldn't form a counterwagon"? What the fuck reasoning is this? If I was scum with percy, why wouldn't I just, I dunno, tell him to bus a townie? Your logic makes no sense. Stop tunneling and go be useful, hypocrite.

[XScorpion]

Little time for mafia these days

requesting replacement

*sigh* Noted

[XScorpion]

Kinda my fault for having no time for this game when summer rolled around my bad. And shame on all of you townies for not doing anything when I was busting my ass at the beginning of this game, while you were all facerolling/lurking.
But to be fair, all of town was awful in this game. What the hell kind of lylo was that? Disgusting. Katsuki deserves this win for sure.

[XScorpion]

Maybe if you actually scumhunted instead of acted like a jester this game I wouldn't have killed you. Same old song and dance huh

[XScorpion]

Yeah it looks like the success rate of your strategy is pretty low.
Acting like a jester in a game with jesters is suicide, if there was a vig you would get shot at night and screw over town like that.

[XScorpion]

If you play the same way, no promises.