Mini 1046 - Murder in the Desert (Game Over!)

[Slaxx]

Vote: parama

out of love. No homo.

[Slaxx]

Boberz vote you have no reason not to.

[Slaxx]

I'm on my iPhone. That's a beautifully disguise omgus vote though, I must say. Also I commonly make two separate posts anyway. If you doubt me, o the sign up thread an see. Thanks

[Slaxx]

Demon, have you nothing to say between boberz and I?

[Slaxx]

Slaxx gut says Budderskins is diplomatic mafia.

unvote

for now. Will follow up later.

[Slaxx]

Oh and it has nothing to do with my meta silly boberz, its just the way I talk. Its not how I play, just how I write.

[Slaxx]

I RVS on people I can't read. Its kind of the point IMO.

I can never read Parama, he is a good player.

[Slaxx]

Also as I suspected Bibber has done a lot of prodding at other players but offered little of his own input and has yet to vote. So lets get this moving, then.

vote: bud bidderskins

[Slaxx]

I don't think I ever voted him. I can't tell if he is "false sense of superiority talk smack about yo mom" townie or just tryhard mafia. Plus I have always been kind of bad about FoSing people who vote me (as town moreso than mafia, ironically enough) so I am trying to let my bias just kind of die down before I evaluate him.

[Slaxx]

In short, right now he is just pissing me off.

[Slaxx]

This game is going to be lulzy.

Weapons, what does that make Demons/Parama?

[Slaxx]

I did, read back.

Prodding other players without contributing any of his own material to the discussion, no vote. Basically saying hey guys look I am here but I don't want to take a stance on anything until a bandwagon gets a bit bigger.

[Slaxx]

Hey Nic, does my vote count? Ijs.

[Slaxx]

Lol you guys remind me of some buddies on EM.

[Slaxx]

Id hate to turn this into an old buddies circle jerk but I once dwelled in the scorehero forums.

jerk jerk jerk

[Slaxx]

Oh damn I have a stalker.

[Slaxx]

Thanks nic.

[Slaxx]

Explanations are cool, its generally how we go about doing things here.

[Slaxx]

so DH/PArama/charter is your proposal?

[Slaxx]

So DH/Parama/Charter?

[Slaxx]

Wow sorry fighting internet/trying to do online homework.

[Slaxx]

Initial Puzzle Pieces (Subject to change):

Charter/Weapons=Not scumbuddies.

[Slaxx]

This is already becoming a debate between like 4 people.

Other people need to get in and offer content now.

[Slaxx]

And not shitty stuff either.

[Slaxx]

That means:

CES: Two bandwagon votes. No relevant game material/discussion.
Lowell: One vote. No relevant game material/discussion.
Oso: One vote, one explanation. No relevant game material/discussion.
xvart: One vote, no explanation. No relevant game material/discussion.

[Slaxx]

I was more or less talking about the fact that there was no content to any of your posts, not that you hadn't posted.

In that same line of thought, Bub is the king of such shenanigans.

[Slaxx]

Also I love how you spent the whole time posting all of that out and yet you still have added nothing useful to the discussion

[Slaxx]

For the last time, its not Meta. Its just how I post. Check the signup thread, I know there is at least one instance where I posted one thing, read up, and a few minutes later decided to address another. Mini normal cue, go. He tried to pass it off as a scum tell by saying I was scared to address people. I am not intimidated by players as town or mafia.

No, I am just trying to keep people in the game and active. Right now more or less Oso who has yet to say anything useful, and CES, but more or less for the record I added anyone else who hadn't said anything useful. I just didn't like how many people were just coming in and posting to vote when there were already other discussions going on (Hell, me and boberz went at it the first few posts).

[Slaxx]

I guess I have to slow down. Too much real time mafia.

Right now I am thinking along the lines of possibilities and I have gathered these possible scenarios:
Boberz/Weapons as scum + Bud as town (Pretty evident why this is a possibility if you go back and read the thread)
Also I am thinking Parama might be town for now simply because of all the random Parama votes coming from the lurkers, but we'll deal with that later.

Everyone else is neutral. I am really bad about getting reads until everyone has posted some sort of content.

[Slaxx]

Speaking of which

unvote: bub bidderskins

for now.

[Slaxx]

I'm not attacking lurkers, just trying to get them to post. Notice I have yet to vote any lurkers. I am trying to get reads on them instead. Hard to do when they so not converse. As far as backing down goes, besides admitting I am impatient I don't see where else I have done that.

[Slaxx]

I already told you posting twice is just how I post, it has nothing to do so with fear, bur you refuse to even acknowledge this because you are so desperate to justify your vote.

[Slaxx]

vote boberz

for above reasons.

[Slaxx]

So you'd rather me vote Someone who hasn't talked but I don't think is scum?

[Slaxx]

Haha u so funny.

You did answer the question.

[Slaxx]

Damn autocorrect. Didn't.

[Slaxx]

Why is everyone saying I don't have a case on Boberz?

[Slaxx]

MY unvote for Bub was implied in the post, though I don't expect you to pick that up, lol.

I was thinking WOMD and Boberz might both be scum, but WOMD chose to bandwagon my vote on Bub, which if I am right about WOMD/bobers makes bub prob town.

[Slaxx]

Boberz admits the that he realizes it is part of my meta to vote twice but refuses to unvote me, and thats the only reason he had to vote me in the first place. Now with thr growing bandwagon on me he FoSs Bub but doesnt change his vote. Wanna know why? Because I am the next biggest wagon.

[Slaxx]

I don't defend a lot with Meta, its not meta, for the last time. Its just the way I type out my posts.

[Slaxx]

Wow I am scatterbrained

"Part of my style to separate posts", not meta or vote twice

[Slaxx]

You didn't have good reasons to start out with really. You accused me of echoing everyone else but then did the same in your post.

Also I love all the ad hom I am getting this game, it makes me feel like people don't have anything better to say in defense to my arguments. Thanks for stroking my ego <3

[Slaxx]

I already told you posting twice is just how I post, it has nothing to do so with fear, bur you refuse to even acknowledge this because you are so desperate to justify your vote.

[Slaxx]

I agree with the Lowell town read, and actually think CES is probs town too. If Weapons and Boberz flip scum, I think Bubs is town too.

[Slaxx]

After playing EM for a good while I feel I do well going with town reads as well, then using PoE to sniff out remaining mafia.

[Slaxx]

O ok ^^

[Slaxx]

Parama you make this game fun.

inb4 OMGZ BUDDYING

[Slaxx]

I already told you that he accepted my style of typing and yet did not let up on his vote on me. And I have posted that quote twice now. He seemed reluctant to switch of me even though he accepted my explanation. Later he even FoSs another person but does not switch to them. (I believe it was Bub). What about this isn't scummy dude?

[Slaxx]

He doesn't want to let off my bandwagon even though he doesnt seem as concerned with me as he does others, is the short explanation. Can't make it simpler.

[Slaxx]

Snip.

[Slaxx]

Nic if you want you can delete one of those.

DELETE THE FIRST...NO, THE SECOND...:p idc

Basically the summed case on me is

1. I was scared to call out somebody to vote (Accusation is no longer in play, accuser accepted my explanation).
2. I put an L-1 vote with no explanation on a player
-I have explained my vote and did at the time
-Other people have BWed on the wagon too, but they arent catching nearly as much heat as I am
-L-1 isnt hammer, its undoable, only an idiot on either side would hammer
3. I am increasing scummier at a faster rate than bobberz ( We can credit charter for that extremely detailed and defendable position)
4. I am annoying (Once again, go Charter)
5. For unvoting Bub rapidly (I explained this one too...My FoS is boberz/WMOD [mainly by affiliation with my main FoS and his halfhearted vote on Bub when all this was going on, which if you think about it kind of makes Bub probable townie given these FoSs are correct].

Please ask me more.

[Slaxx]

Charter, what questions are you referring to?

I thought I have answered them like 4 times her. There is obviously a miscommunication. Be more specific. Give me the questions I didnt answer. All Lowell said was that I was attacking someone who was trying instead of lurkers. And I told him that I am pressuring someone I think is scum with the vote.

[Slaxx]

Bobers, last vote count says you haven't..And if you really did forget either Nic missed it or I am blind.

[Slaxx]

Also I have been on the defense quite a lot so expect a decent post from me detailing FoSs, maybe a town tell or two, and whatnot by the end of the day.

[Slaxx]

Its cool. This changes things, I thought you were just unwilling to leave my BW.

Bleh I have work to do.

[Slaxx]

It was when he accepted my explanation but stayed on my wagon. That's what I've said time and time again.

Idk the way he worded it was kind of cocky and smartassish so instead of making an intelligible reply like I should have I just snipped back. But tbh he asked me a really dumb question in my own eyes. I was pressuring someone I thought was scum while prodding the lurkers, and he though that there was something wrong with attacking lurkers but voting boberz,. Its kind of like focusing your attention on the misbehaving kid on the playground while you're trying to prevent the other ones from eating the playdough.

[Slaxx]

Vote Counts so far
-----------------------------------
Parama (2): Slaxx, Cogito Ergo Sum
boberz (2): xvart, DemonHybrid
Xine (1): WeaponsofMassConstruction
Slaxx (1): boberz
xvart (1): Oso
------------------------------------
-----------------------------------
boberz (4): xvart, DemonHybrid, Parama, charter
Parama (2): Cogito Ergo Sum, Lowell
Bub Bidderskins (2): Slaxx, WeaponsofMassConstruction
Slaxx (1): boberz
xvart (1): Oso

------------------------------------
-----------------------------------
boberz (6): xvart, DemonHybrid, Parama, charter, Cogito Ergo Sum, Slaxx
Slaxx (2): boberz, Lowell
Bub Bidderskins (1): WeaponsofMassConstruction
xvart (1): Oso
------------------------------------
-----------------------------------
boberz (5): xvart, Parama, charter, Cogito Ergo Sum, Slaxx
Slaxx (2): boberz, Lowell
Bub Bidderskins (1): WeaponsofMassConstruction
Cogito Ergo Sum (1): Oso
------------------------------------
-----------------------------------
boberz (4): xvart, Parama, Cogito Ergo Sum, Slaxx
Slaxx (3): boberz, Lowell, charter
Bub Bidderskins (1): WeaponsofMassConstruction
Cogito Ergo Sum (1): Oso
Parama (1): Xine
------------------------------------
-----------------------------------
boberz (4): xvart, Parama, Cogito Ergo Sum, Slaxx
Bub Bidderskins (3): WeaponsofMassConstruction, DemonHybrid, boberz
Slaxx (2): Lowell, charter
Parama (2): Xine, Bub Bidderskins
Cogito Ergo Sum (1): Oso
----------------------------------


Alright so with that up (mainly for my own reference) I shall get to work on ISOs.

Boberz: In the beginning Boberz seemed trying pretty hard to look townie, as many others have already stated. Despite what he might think I do think he was contradicting himself in several places, but they were almost all on game discussion. Ironically enough, digging through all these posts, the only people he seems to express concern for are Bub and I. I figured my ISO would be longer for boberz, but 90% of his content is useless theory discussion, whether he is using that as an excuse to post filler and stay away from scumhunting or is sincerely trying to defend himself is up to everyone else to decide for themselves. He was kind of indifferent to my L-1 vote, and I really don't know how to take that. I thought putting more pressure on him would serve me well, but it just caught me a bunch of heat instead. I don't know about Boberz. For now we'll stick him in

neutral

. Speaking of which,

unvote

Budder: ISO 0 reeks of scum trying to look productive. He was not even paying attention when he addressed Boberz. ISO #1 still isn't much better. I don't feel like the questions are genuine, nor do they really seem to be trying to prove any sort of point. I think if he offered his own opinion I would be able to see the point of his questions better, but without his "thesis" the questions look halfhearted and maybe even a bit forced. ISO 5 he expresses concern about CES but still does not vote. We're pretty far in to the game now and everyone should at least be dropping FoSs and preferably votes. In ISO 8 he gets frustrated with Parama and calls a lot of what Parama said, which I thought made some sense (especially the part about Xine's refusal to vote Boberz at that time), then wrote it all off as OMGUS. Parama then points out that he has good logic and calls Bubberz scum for not agreeing.

Possible scum.

Charter: Charter has been fairly townie so far in the way he posts and who he pressured. It's really frustrating to try to talk to this guy though, so as I do his ISO I will try for probably the final time to argue for myself against him in addition to doing his ISO. The only real post that bothers me from Charter's ISO is when he said CS's wagon targets looked good to him. I feel like he let CES off the hook pretty easy for a pretty rough bandwagon vote, but then even after I gave some reasoning for my vote he either didnt see it or wasnt satisfied with it. He keeps asserting I am scum with boberz, which doesnt make much sense considering I put him at L-1 and was one of the first to pressure him, the former for which he has found me extremely scummy for. In regards to his vote on Bub saying I was scum with Bub, all I can say is that I felt like he did the same exact thing with CES, but if he isnt scum with CES then he will understand that the logic that he is using for the alleged slaxx/bub scumbuddy pair isnt that solid. Idk, Ive always been bad with people who FoS me.

Probably town.

Shower break, will do rest hopefully tonight.

[Slaxx]

Idk about you man, you didnt really"sheep my vote" but you did kind of agree with me on it, but then you kind of started expressing concern for me when it was the cool thing to do. Why the sudden change of heart?

[Slaxx]

And the vote I am referring to is the vote on Bud

[Slaxx]

CES: This should be fun. CES has been bandwagoning quite a bit, but at the same time not trying to be sneaky or covert about it. At first, as in the first couple times he did this, I just thought to myself "I feel like scum would try to disguise their uselessness a bit better" but after continuously vague content I can't really say his direct playstyle is a towntell anymore. Needs more postz and needs to express his opinion a bit more.

Neutral.

DH: DH is proving to be a hard read from me. A lot of his material is also on the discussion of theory, and occasionally he express concern for Boberz in between these mounds of discussion. The unvote from him when I put Boberz at L-1 was a bit of a town tell, considering his important placement on Boberz wagon ( 3rd I think?). He could have easily left his vote where it was if Boberz had been his scum buddy during the initial stage of the game, so whether Boberz is scum or town is irrelevant, to me his unvote is a slight town tell. His vote on Bubberz is well explained, and he seems willing to actually communicate with bubberz on why he is being voted which shows he isn't really up for a fast lynch.

Likely Town.

Lowell: Votes me, says i am scummy, I explain myself, votes bub. Needs more content.

Neutral.

[Slaxx]

-At xvart, I was but not anymore. Yes, its a good indicator of my posting style, in game or out of game. I don't change my typing style in a game. That whole vote on me was a huge reach anyway at best. Also reread my ISO. That is NOT the way it happened. That was an unvote... Yes you are right, they do, but that is why I am posting my ISOs and opinions now. Your last quote is lulzy...So I can';t bring evidence on him if I am not the mighty crusader of his wagon?

[Slaxx]

Sigh I meant to space those all out.

[Slaxx]

Maybe, but I don't like to cry Meta either, because that just doesn't work. My point was it wasn't a playing style as much as it was a typing style.

[Slaxx]

Speaking of which

unvote: bub bidderskins

for now.

Just posting that for your reference, xvart.

[Slaxx]

Id hate to not do what you asked, but I don't see why quickhammering d1 is amazing play, and therefore I didnt worry about it. I already said he was suspicious because he accepted all my explanations and backed down from accusing me, but kept his vote on me (this made me suspicious because I was the next biggest bandwagon, I think we were 5/3 or 4/3 at the time).

I did answer this one for sure. I made some datcare analogy. You'll have to find it.

[Slaxx]

..day...care...

[Slaxx]

Lowell never asked me a question, he just said I was attacking lurkers but voted someone who was trying. Just because they are trying doesn't make them scummy.

I don't know how else to explain either question. You seem pretty intent on not accepting anything I say.

[Slaxx]

You guys are making a huge deal out of L-1.

[Slaxx]

Bubs, if you really are town, WOMD is voting you because he doesn't want to go on the boberz wagon.

Also anyone notice how boberz has kind of died down and not offered much sense the wagon on him is off and the wagon on Bub is on?Something to note, although I have to problem lynching either of them today. It would give town hella lot of info either way.

[Slaxx]

"No problem" also I started modding today but my ISOs will be up by the end of the weekend.

[Slaxx]

Btw scum is WOMD/boberz/????

or Oso/Xine/Bub

Town reads are Parama/Charter/xvart

[Slaxx]

Xvart I'm not using it for my defense I am saying that boberz accepted it as a defense yet s voted me. Case against him, not defense for myself. But xines vote makes boberZ town now.

[Slaxx]

unvote

Vote Xine

Xine, what do you think of Oso and Charter?

[Slaxx]

I can't help it if you are too lazy to look through the thread to find my replies charter. Not like you'd accept anything I said at this point anyway since you are deadset on me being scum.

[Slaxx]

Oso is third scum in case I die tonight. Not that I am an optimal kill anyway. I will wait for bubs claim.

[Slaxx]

If Bub flips town, FoSs are WOMD/Boberz for reasons I have stated. If I happen to be right about that, Parama and Xine are probably not one of the third mafia.

[Slaxx]

Parama, do you think both are scum? Because I think there is scum in one but probably not both of them.

[Slaxx]

You haven't missed much. Waiting for Bub, who is now MIA, to claim. Then I will hammer.

[Slaxx]

Slaxx does not know what mercy is. Parama: Xine/Bub/?

[Slaxx]

Because the way you voted Boberz reeked of a chainsaw defense, as Parama said.

How are those questions going to help us find scum Bub? Honestly?

VOTE: Boberz

And you question me for not explaining my vote.

I just don't see at this point how you think that Bub is more town than Boberz as a townie. But humor me. Do you think Bub and Boberz both are mafia?

[Slaxx]

Oh, and Parama, I don't see both of them as scum right now. Go read Oso in iso (hey I like that phrase).

[Slaxx]

He claimed mason with me. Which I'm not. My guess I he is trying to WIFOM frame me. Happy now charter? I'm town.

[Slaxx]

I read it as claiming mason with me since he said something about being biased towards me.

[Slaxx]

Wifomwifomwifomwifom

[Slaxx]

What dh said. You're not bitter or anything are you parama?

[Slaxx]

Good points all around the table.

DH, WOMD, what do you guys think about Xine or Oso/Socrates?

I think 2 out of Xine, Boberz, and Oso/Socrates are last scum, but I have to be honest, I am least suspicious of boberz. I will probably read more thoroughly this weekend.

[Slaxx]

Lol@tunneling

[Slaxx]

Well well. What a grand entrance.

Inb4 Socrates saw Parama was semi-leading the game and decided to sneak in an appeal to him right at the get go.

[Slaxx]

Yeah Nic, its cool man. I don't want a vote anyway man.

[Slaxx]

Its not setup speculation, bro.

[Slaxx]

vote xine

Regular comedians.

[Slaxx]

Parama is my hero.

[Slaxx]

charter, I can't wait to rub my role all over your face whenever you find it out.

[Slaxx]

Im not softclaiming PR bro..Just sayin I cant wait for you to see my town flip

[Slaxx]

I dont mind people FoSing me, thats part of the game. But when you say I am beyond obvscum when I'm town, I cant help but laugh my ass off, but also kind of cringe at how bad I am playing.

[Slaxx]

Pretty much WOMC. Honestly, I was too lazy to do that.

[Slaxx]

Thats why I told PArama to read Oso in ISO.

Also xvart, if you're not going to read my posts, then don't bother talking to me. I mentioned Oso yesterday and told Parama to Iso him.

[Slaxx]

So WOMC hopped on my bub wagon and bussed? I guess thats more than plausible. The whole reason I unvoted Bub was because my gut told me something was weird about WOMC's vote on Bub.

[Slaxx]

Well whatever the case we better get this right because with charter and lowell refusing to stop tunneling me my mislynch is pretty much an automatic with less than 8 people.

[Slaxx]

Wait there are (presumably) two mafia left. 5 people. nvm nvm. We got time.

[Slaxx]

I didnt intend for that to be a soft claim for PR. Just to say how silly charter is being.

[Slaxx]

Now we're doing what I like to call fishing for PRs. Judging by my reaction to this situation and the reactions of others, a skilled mafia player would probably be able to pick out some players who dont know hide their PR tells. So lets just stop altogether before we out one. We're ahead anyway.MK

[Slaxx]

-know how to hide their PR tells.

[Slaxx]

What an impressively surprising turn of events.

Wait no crap lol.

[Slaxx]

Hmmm. If there is a tracker should they CC?

[Slaxx]

Xine, just for kicks, total kicks, and nothing but kicks....Did you happen to breadcrumb?

[Slaxx]

Because breadcrumbing generally makes me feel better about PR claims.

[Slaxx]

I love this aspect of the game. The flip, its so intense. Xine definitely needs to out reports beforehand. Just in case she is real tracker I dont want her self hammering out of anger/frustration before outting all her stuff.

unvote

just in case.

Don't worry, it will be back in good time.

[Slaxx]

But you voted me earlier?

[Slaxx]

Why no bread crumb?
Why no flavor?
Why vote me when I was semi clear?

[Slaxx]

Alright well I thought about the third question and realized thats probably what happened but I wanted to see if you came up with that answer instead of me correcting you and giving away the answer.

Yeah I have been softclaiming PR, because for the longest time I had two people tunneling me, so I figured if I could draw the night kill town wouldnt have to waste its mislynch on me. I do the dumb shit I do for a good reason.

I mean why no flavor to the PR claim?

[Slaxx]

Not desperately. I am just making sure every base is covered before we go through with this. It makes sense why she voted me when I softclaimed PR now. Idk. Why fake on me when I have been dropping the PR hints?

[Slaxx]

Huh?

[Slaxx]

I am up for Weapons moreso than boberz or Socrates.

[Slaxx]

Either Xine is great at playing stupid or she is town. Time to reread.

[Slaxx]

As opposed to answering it for her which would make us...what, less scummy? If I answered it for her wouldn't that make it more likely we were scumbuddies?

[Slaxx]

No, I realized the answer was obvious after I posted it. No way to prove that but whatever, I don't think it would matter.

[Slaxx]

1. I post the question
2. I thought about what I asked and what I would expect her to say as town/scum and realize the town answer is obvious
3. She says the response that makes sense in a real tracker's mindset (Voting me because I softclaimed PR when she had a NV on me)
4. Even though the answer is obvious it wasnt what I was expecting from her as scum so it makes me rethink things (Yes that was a stab at her playing strength)

I dont get the fakeness.

[Slaxx]

Charter, you seemed to be sure I was scum, but then you put me up as town really easy just because I gave town reads. Can you explain the sudden 180?

[Slaxx]

So I guess people think WOMC was bussing when he was the second vote on my Bub wagon?

[Slaxx]

Vote WOMC

Where did boberz go.

[Slaxx]

Question marks are for losers. Right Parama.

And its only been a day since he posted, weve just covered a lot of ground in one day I guess.

[Slaxx]

Yeah, tell that to xvart, who thinks I am scum for a perfectly logical argument. Can't win em all.

[Slaxx]

I was also thinking about town governing the track, but then scum knows who to give their nightkill to right? I say leave it up to Xine.

[Slaxx]

I like that.

[Slaxx]

/uses non existent double voting powers to hammer

[Slaxx]

Woah clue me in please O.o

[Slaxx]

Alright examples please oo

If this is the case then Parama is even more town than before.

The speed of this wagon worried me a bit but I just attributed to how scummy Weapons was.

[Slaxx]

I like your use of the word fabricating boberz, it explains the overall post well.

[Slaxx]

Alright, after rereading the thread and ISOs this is what I have got.

Lowell:

-Was on the Bub wagon
-Gives a lame excuse for voting me, practically admitting that he fell into a blatant WIFOM trap but says he will take the risk.
-Says he will catch up with reading on Xine, still no reply.
-Oddly enough, I agree with everything he says except his votes/FoSs on me. I wish Lowell would just give scum reads and town reads and give us something to work with. Its weird someone who is offering so little is not being harped on more, meaning either we have scum who know better than to lurker hunt or that Lowell is scum. I am still pretty sure Lowell is

town

based on what little content he has gave but more sure would be nice.
-Probably not scum also based on interactions with Bub

Both wagons are fine with me.

unvote, vote bub

This kind of flippant attitude is why you are always a suspect, Lowell. Care to explain why you don't care which wagon goes through?

Not much, but Bub wasn't exactly harsh or pressured too many people. He really only pressured CES, which in retrospect, was probably why CES got killed during the night.

Oso/Socrates:

-Seems frustrated about RVS ending early in first post
-Next 2 posts offer no content
-Next 3 posts make excuses for not posting content
-Completely ignores Bub and Bub wagon, never even comments on it except to ask a question to Parama which seemed to have a pretty obvious answer. Almost reads like "Uh....look guys! I acknowledged the wagon, see? I am not ignoring it but NO I will not take a stance on it".

Help me out and point to that? I've been going over Bub's posts. Some of them are big and I probably missed something you didn't.

^-Where he asks Charter to point out Bub's scumminess (Either buying time so he doesnt have to be on the wagon or just hoping it gets looked over).

@Parama, If I read your reasoning correctly, you think that Xine FOSed a scumbuddy and voted a townie. Then bub came in chainsaw defended a scumbuddy as well?

Pretty much the same exact thing.

Socrates, however, seems a bit more town than Oso, or at least a more inconspicuous scum. Honestly, I am not for sure about this read anymore. Probably

neutral

for now. I have read over Socrates ISO but I am not for sure I need more time to kind of make connections and process what he is saying and his stances on people.

Charter:

-Was on the Bub Wagon (Didn't really pressure Bub and only really voted him in association with me)
-Gives a crap ton of town reads
-Has been fairly consistent throughout the game except with his 180 on me which he explained
-I really don't think Charter is scum. He has been on every bandwagon today (Xine, WOMC, both who I think are probably town now) but so have I so who is to point fingers? I think both the bandwagons sprung up on them because they were looking really bad in association with Bub today. However, Lowell was correct in saying that the WOMC wagon felt kind of half ass. I was expecting WOMC to claim PR because I thought he was either scum or PR, so the vanilla townie claim took me a bit by surprise. Speaking of which

unvote

if I haven't already. Anyway, I digress. Charter is probably

town .

Parama:

-Was on the Bub Wagon
-Huge back and forths with Bub
-Bub voted for him yesterday along with Xine
-Has been on all of today's wagons if I recall correctly.

Not much else to say, really.

Town

for all the interactions he had with Bub yesterday, and as Lowell said, for paying more attention.

xvart:

-Voted Xine, not Bub
-Definitely a read that has changed for me. Bub and xvart ignored each other the entire day, and out of all the stuff xvart addressed, he never once addressed Bub's wagon. He addresses Bub's posting style, and Bub jokingly answers back, but other than that, no contact is made. This doesn't bode well for Xvart, and I am pretty sure he isn't townie any more. I just fail to see how someone who took time to address almost everyone conveniently left out the day's biggest bandwagon that happened to be scum. Bub also failed to acknowledge xvart at all either.

Probable scum

. Bye bye town read.

Vote: xvart

.

Xine:

-Reading her in ISO, her claim is starting to feel legit. In her very first post she says I am leading the town (not really but whatever, the point of this is she is consistent with what she says) and even goes as far as to say "Slaxx is definitely setting trends in this game, I will be watching him, and other people’s reactions to him carefully".
-I'm starting to find that her chainsaw to boberz in defense of Bub might have actually just been a bit of Tunneling townie. At the same time she asks Bub if he has a point to any of his questions, and I don't think Bub ever responds. Whether he ignored it because he knows she is a scum buddy or just because he doesn't care is hard to tell. Everything else to be said I have already said here. I am putting my neck on the cutting board to defend her but I really do think she has a good shot at being real. Probably town, which also means probably

Tracker

.

WOMC:

-Was the leader on the Bub wagon after I took my vote off. I felt at the time the vote was halfhearted, and something felt off. This caused me to do a 180 and think Bub might be town and Weapons was trying to find a non Boberz wagon to be on. However later Bub started to get even worse which once again led me to believe that Bub was scum. I don't feel right about this initial vote, because it still seems kind of vague and sheepish, so it could very well still be bussing. We'll se as I get farther into WOMC's ISO.
-As Parama said, interactions with Bub probably make this guy town, but still a fairly scummy townie. I want to put him in a town category but quotes like this :

So you think there are 4 scum? How common is this for 12 player setups?

kind of make me feel waffly on him. Kind of like he is intentionally playing dumb here. For now

Neutral.

DH and Boberz are going to take a bit more time, but before I do ISOs I am pretty sure DH is town and I will have to look at Bob.

[Slaxx]

If I had to throw out two FoSs right now I would say xvart/Socrates.

Because of this

Good points all around the table.

DH, WOMD, what do you guys think about Xine or Oso/Socrates?

I think 2 out of Xine, Boberz, and Oso/Socrates are last scum, but I have to be honest, I am least suspicious of boberz. I will probably read more thoroughly this weekend.

Why Oso/Socrates? This is the first time you have even typed Oso's name. What happened overnight? You think the good points all around (about boberz) is only enough to make him the least suspicious of your scum grouping?

Partly because it seems like he had been keeping tabs on WHO FoSd Oso (even if he didn't do it well). His tone is almost defensive and frustrated in the post.

xvart

: From my RVS you might get the impression I like playing mafia with him. You'd be right but he remains neutral. Thinking out loud here but, like Charter, I like the direction his thinking seems to be going in.

I think Xvart had been giving strong stances and warranted more of a strong read by that point in time. Its almost like "lol my scum buddies coming up guess I will throw him in neutral".

[Slaxx]

Charter, I beg of you to read my Xvart case.

[Slaxx]

Soc/Oso

[Slaxx]

I know my opinion doesn't matter, especially considering you think I am mafia, but I reallllly don't think Charter is scum.

[Slaxx]

Xvart, I know this isn't the point you're making, but I unvoted Bub in that post regardless.

[Slaxx]

Speaking of which

unvote: bub bidderskins

for now.

[Slaxx]

No, Xine. Would type more but I got class.

[Slaxx]

That logic is terrible?

[Slaxx]

I guess no one reads my comments. Until people actually do, I will just stop posting.

[Slaxx]

Xine, its the fact that Xvart mage gifrigginnormous posts that addressed multiple people but conveniently never mention Bub, or rather never acknowledged or took a stance on the wagon. The only other person that did this is Oso. There are also slightly incriminating links that Charter and I have pointed out between them. Sure scum? Hell no. Bad Coincidence? Probably not.

Xine, it was an unvote. Not a vote. I unvoted him. I said he was town then unvoted him.

[Slaxx]

Xvart, surely you can WIFOM better than that. I already explained why Bub was killed in my ISOs. I figured it out after I gave the thread a good read.

Look xvart, your scumhunting was ..."convincing"?. But its just too big of a coincidence for me to pass up. It wasn't just a one way thing either. It happened mutually between you both.

[Slaxx]

Wow, my bad. I don't think I did. I meant to mention it. I am pretty sure Bub spent almost his whole time harping on CES and pressuring him. He didn't do that to anyone else besides Parama.

[Slaxx]

I was too.

[Slaxx]

Nah. Awkward is when I came into class in like 3rd grade with my pants on backwards. Mod might be able to confirm that.

[Slaxx]

I meant to say embarrassing.

Anyway to make this post a little more useful NK speculation is hopeless and probably shouldn't be discussed but I do have to throw my opinion on the table and say that I am pretty sure Bub's interactions with CES is what got him killed.

[Slaxx]

Why has every bandwagon today been so fast.

[Slaxx]

You're going to do great things one day.

[Slaxx]

Told you guys.

[Slaxx]

Remember Xine, if xvart flips scum (I am about 80% he will) track Soc. If he flips town then track random.

[Slaxx]

If you were smart you would know that most mafiascum chemists care more about how many moles of freaking there are so they can carry on titrations and neutralizations and such with other compounds such as flippin and frikkin. Now you could just divide grams by the molar mass of freakin but why not just cut out the middle man?

Also spell check doesn't like the word "titrations" but offered me tit rations in its place. K.

Xvart, are you changing around FoSs now?

[Slaxx]

I'd be more than happy to lynch Socrates today too. Town's choice.

[Slaxx]

I'll

unvote

and let everyone decide.

[Slaxx]

You were my only scum read in my ISO, so the I started making connections with you to other players. I clearly stated that if I had to give two remaining FoSs it would be you and Oso, for individual reasons and actual connected reasons.

[Slaxx]

And honestly, I put more effort into your wagon and attacked you more first because no one had FoSd you yet, and I really thought you were scum. So I pushed for yours harder. I could count on other people to push for SOC.

[Slaxx]

I would really like to hear from Parama more, I value his opinion and miss him gracing our presence.

[Slaxx]

Oso was scum d1 because he was scummy. His reads were scummy and he was deflective. He posted little to no content, and when he did it didnt seem genuine. I expressed concern by telling Parama to Iso OSo and see what he thought.
Notice D2 when Soc replaced in I didn't say much about it.
Now notice when I start looking for connections after that post you just quoted I find some odd connections with you and Bub and Oso so I FoS you two. Pretty clear to me. Idk what your problem is bro.
The only reason I unvoted you is I am trying to figure out why mafia would try so hard at this point in time. Not try hard, its not the right phrase, oh well. It kind of balanced the odds for me. 50/50 either way. You or Soc. Also, I recall you unvoting me after I put you under pressure. So what we've got here is called hypocrisy.

[Slaxx]

In addition, the unvote thing is ridiculous. Why? Because clearly I have a good enough case on you to lynch you. Only one more vote other than me to the hammer. If I was scum all I would have to do is convince one more person, and there are plenty left, that you were scum and bam, mislynch (If I were scum, which I'm not. Yeah, I am pretty much doing the whole I am town in parentheses thing to mock you, but in a playful way, I swear).

Instead I am giving my fellow townies (cuz im town) an option to see what they think of this back and forth and to see if your post strikes them in a similar way in which it did to me. Optimal scum play would be to stay the hell on the wagon and keep pressuring you.

[Slaxx]

I want to lynch myself today. But not before I get a chance to reread the thread one more time.

[Slaxx]

I'm not for sure about xvart anymore. No need to possibly waste two lynches.

[Slaxx]

Partial gut, partially because I can't put a scum motivation (especially with Soc) into your last couple posts. I don't know why as scum you would be trying this hard to frame me. I mean if you're scum all this effort you put into the lynch was wasted, because I had/have hammer for a short period of time, I think. There was nothing else for you to do as scum except keep your mouth shut, because the more you talk the more it would clear me and incriminate whoever is left. Plus when you pointed out the thing with me directing the track I think thats way more likely to come from town.

Here's the deal: I can't talk myself out of this. The fact that there are already people lining up to lynch me tomorrow probably means you're town and they are setting up me as tomorrow's lynch. There is no way to prove this thought ptocess to anyone. Everyone is going to see it as scum backing off of a wagon. That's fine. Its my fault I played that way. But I am not going to just hammer you under these circumstances now. If I'm right, that is two wasted lynches. So instead I am offering myself up today. Just give me a few days to reread the thread.

[Slaxx]

What I am trying to say is as scum you should have been appealing to me because I was the one who held your fate, but instead you just nonchalantly passed it up and continued to scumhunt and fine connections for tomorrow. If it was fake it was impressive, or maybe I am just that much of a fool.

[Slaxx]

WOMC/Lowell/Boberz/Xine

Care to take a stance on the Xvart that involves more than a yes or no?
Care to out some FoSs/Towntells?

[Slaxx]

Why is that.

[Slaxx]

I think my case was, and obviously so did a lot of others, all of which can't be scum. I'm not playing it up. That wasn't the point of that post at all.

Xvart, lets play a game. If we did lynch me today, and when I flipped town (cuz I am), who would be your new set of FoSs?

Why are you also heckling me so hard, the person with a fairly decent case on you, even if it is mostly coincidental, and not the other 4 or 5 on the wagon? No, its not deflection. I take full responsobility for the wagon, even without my vote on it. Ofc your recent posts don't make me feel so good about that mostly decent case.

[Slaxx]

No one better hammer yet, including you.

[Slaxx]

We had 17 days today...How many have gone by...8? I can't vote myself out of pure dignity and possible game rules, but I really don't mind being lynched because I know this is going to come back to haunt me.

[Slaxx]

Well, if xvart is town which I keep feeling more and more, then his lynch would be the death of me, if not tomorrow, surely the next day. We have 10 players right now and probably 2 scum. We lynch xvart today, lets say he flips town. They kill someone who is not me tomorrow.

6/2

I get lynched because of how bad I played townie this game.

4/2.

Welcome to freakin mylo on what was a pretty decent start for town.

[Slaxx]

How does that post make me town?

[Slaxx]

Soc, if xvart is scum, who do you think 3rd mafierz is?

[Slaxx]

Xvart, play my game. Please

No, I'm not playing the martyr role up. And I already explained why I am doing this. I'm not asking people to pray to me after I die, I'm not doing it for town cred. I'm just doing it for town. If you haven't read my reasoning, go back and do so.

I'm not voting today. We're lynching me /

[Slaxx]

Like I said earlier, I have a reason for the seemingly stupid shit I do. And I have a reason for this.

[Slaxx]

I want xvart to play my game D:

[Slaxx]

WOMC/Lowell/Boberz/Xine

Care to take a stance on the Xvart that involves more than a yes or no?
Care to out some FoSs/Towntells?

[Slaxx]

Parama, opinion on DH, GO

[Slaxx]

[Slaxx]

When I have time to ISO you I will. But your play was really townie up until your last few posts.

[Slaxx]

Charter I am not voting xvart. I want him to play my game.

DH, why you so concerned anyway bro? Thought we were buddies.

[Slaxx]

My game isn't dumb its important. Why are you asking me to lynch a read I am unsure of?

DH, we're still friends right?

[Slaxx]

I never denied softclaiming power role. I dont think I did. I did it to draw in the night kill so you guys wouldnt waste a lynch on me. But now you guys should because I think xvart is town, so its better to off one townie than two.

[Slaxx]

But thanks for your vote. 3 or 4 more right? Lowell dont you want a piece of this actionwagon?

[Slaxx]

This wagon will be good for town tomorrow, I swear by it.

[Slaxx]

Like I said, a lot of its coming from my gut. Maybe its the fact that all 3 wagons today have just been so fast. Everyone hopped on the xvart wagon pretty fast. I know there could be bussing, but I find it unlikely when there are so few scum left. I just dont think the wagon has been right today. If I could point out exactly what about xvart's post made me waver I would, but I can't. I think its mainly the whole thing with me "directing" the track. I just can't see scum manufacturing that.

[Slaxx]

DH, you're slightly less town than you were 10 posts ago but you are still town.

[Slaxx]

Alright Xine, if you can't give a solid opinion on xvart because its so difficult, why is it so bad I am so confused about the whole situation?

[Slaxx]

I'm pretty sure this is the first time ever I have not been able to give an honest sure FoS on who is scum.

[Slaxx]

So being suicidal is a scum tell? Also I encourage you to reread me I really don't think I ever changed my intentions. :<

[Slaxx]

Was that before or after I explained my intentions though?

[Slaxx]

Yeah I said I was dropping hints to draw the night kill AFTER those posts. It would have been different if I had said "yeah, i did that to draw the nightkill" then said I retracted it.

[Slaxx]

So what makes you think town then. Reasonuhreasonuhreason

[Slaxx]

I think everyone left is town.

[Slaxx]

What I am trying to say is, Xine, is that I was sure he was scum until he actually came and made that (wrong) but still interesting connection between Soc and I, and now I am in the same mindset you are. Then Parama talked about lynching me d3 (he said waste a lynch, which I almost called out but I think he meant waste as in he was reluctant to do it, not waste as in he is scum and knows i am town) and DH and boberz ( i think bob, maybe not)all started saying they would be suspicious of me if xvart flipped town. Thing is it was just the same time I started to think he WAS and the fact that people were already lining up to lynch me made me think the classic "he led a mislynch lets get him today...wait they were BOTH town?" card was being played, which just made xvart look even more town. That is why I want xvart to play my game. I can't tell if he is tunneling townie or not because him refusing to out alternate FoSs kind of felt like deflection. So I just cant figure this shit out. Soc summed it up well: I am just caught in a bad situation.

[Slaxx]

Xvart, play my game. Please

Explain to me the purpose of your "game" when it hinges on you flipping town and even if it didn't how it wouldn't help scum decide on optimal night kill targeting?

Just answer the question, I don't see why it matters. Everyone else has outted town reads and scum reads and some alternate reads if certain players flip town. Why won't you just answer? Explain to me how it WILL after pretty much half the players here have made town and scum lists.

I'm not voting today. We're lynching me /

So as town, why would you not vote who you think is scum for informational purposes after you supposedly flip town?

Honestly I don't have any scum reads right now. I have to reread because I am missing something.

I never denied softclaiming power role. I dont think I did. I did it to draw in the night kill so you guys wouldnt waste a lynch on me. But now you guys should because I think xvart is town, so its better to off one townie than two.

The problem with you championing your own lynch to save town me is that you don't consider what's going to happen if you do in fact flip town. More than likely, if you flip town, I'm going to be in hot water tomorrow for derailing my wagon and championing a town lynch. What's the difference now that makes you want to be today's lynch? You championing your lynch is only town at face value; but the fact that you aren't thinking further ahead just adds to your scummy nature. AND, what kind of information are we going to get about the people on your wagon if you are saying to lynch you? Your

ploy

"plan" is very shortsighted.

If I find a lynch I am happy with, I will go for it. I don't have one right now.

Like I said, a lot of its coming from my gut. Maybe its the fact that all 3 wagons today have just been so fast. Everyone hopped on the xvart wagon pretty fast. I know there could be bussing, but I find it unlikely when there are so few scum left.

What do you mean so few scum left? There is exactly one less scum today than yesterday.

2/8 is a safe guess, I would say 1/5 of the town being scum is good and few.

So what makes you think town then. Reasonuhreasonuhreason

In this post Slaxx tries to not so subtly get people to think I'm scummy even though he "thinks" I'm town.

By asking someone to give a case on why you're town? What is WRONG with you? I am trying to extract thoughts from Xine.

[Slaxx]

Charter. Does the stagnating game mean we're right or we're wrong?

[Slaxx]

vote xvart

we're both going down anyway. Whatever.

[Slaxx]

:/ i would suggest giving alternate FoSs xvart..

[Slaxx]

It was I get lynched and then you get lynched or vice versa. Either way.

Now to prevent you looking like an idiot later on I suggest you give alternate FoSs.

[Slaxx]

Yep. Idc anymore. Ive dug myself so deep it doesnt matter. I will be great mislynch fodder for tomorrow, just as I knew I was going to be.

[Slaxx]

xvart, if you're town, you'll out an alternate theory. We wont even consider it until I am dead.

[Slaxx]

You connect my vote to that when you are posting like 5 different questions every post? Come on.

My read on everyone is town. But someone has to go.

[Slaxx]

Nice twisting my words. I said that you attributed that particular question to my vote when there were many others in that post. I DID NOT SAY there were too many questions. If I only have 1 scum read I must be doing something wrong. When you shook my read I just automatically doubted the Soc read too.